Spillover of Nick cartoon stuff into IDW comic?

[Andrew NDB]

I've been sort of watching idly for signs that elements from what becomes revealed of the Nick cartoon would end up in the IDW comic.

Looking at the profiles on the Nick TMNT today, there was one big thing that jumped out at me and one little thing: one, this Hamato Yoshi Splinter had a family that he lost and that the Turtles are also his "new family" (and it also seems likely that, similar to IDW TMNT, Shredder took out his family). Second, the Kraaannge -- like General Krang -- seem to reside inside chest cavities instead of abdominal cavities.

[ToTheNines]

I was actually just thinking how we haven't really got anything from the Nick cartoon in this book (Don's and Mike's upgraded weapons, April being in high school, etc.).

As for your observations, Shredder always takes out Yoshi's family, even if it's usually just Shen. There's no indication of reincarnation, I'm pretty sure that was all Tom.

The chest cavity... probably just coincidence. It makes more practical sense to place the alien in the chest though. When it comes to hand to hand combat, it's easier to guard the chest rather than the stomach.

[Donnie]

I thought that too about the reincarnation thing. I don't think it's a bad thing to tie it into the Nick show...after all, people who pick up the comic because of the toon will find some common similarities.

[Galactus]

Well I originaly thought that most non-mirage elements in the IDW book would be traced back to the upcoming Nicktoon but so far I don't see it. Seems more like the Fred Wolf show is more prominent.

Hamato Yoshi Splinter had a family that he lost and that the Turtles are also his "new family" (and it also seems likely that, similar to IDW TMNT, Shredder took out his family).

Very different family and technicaly the IDW Splinter has only lost Tang Shen since he still has his sons in their new turtle bodies.

Second, the Kraaannge -- like General Krang -- seem to reside inside chest cavities instead of abdominal cavities.

I suppose but it seems the Kraang are an actual race that other than that difference you mentioned resemble the Utroms very closely. Their motivations may be shady but we'll see when the cartoon airs. Krang seems to be a singular being that is a warlord from another dimension just like the '87 show.

[CyberCubed]

I am calling it now: Old Hob will appear in Season 2 of the Nick cartoon.

[Bobby Curnow]

For what it's worth, we have zero interaction with the cartoon folks, zero so far is inspired by the new show, though I can see that changing once the show gets underway. But only in the same sense that we're inspired by all the various TMNT incarnations.

I would love to see a animated Hob though!

[Andrew NDB]

For what it's worth, we have zero interaction with the cartoon folks, zero so far is inspired by the new show, though I can see that changing once the show gets underway.

In what way? Do you mean them potentially passing you guys notes to "make this/that more like the show" or just in the sense that as soon as you guys at IDW start seeing the show and dig certain elements, maybe that would inspire the IDW universe in unforeseeable ways?

[Venom]

In what way? Do you mean them potentially passing you guys notes to "make this/that more like the show" or just in the sense that as soon as you guys at IDW start seeing the show and dig certain elements, maybe that would inspire the IDW universe in unforeseeable ways?

Obviously the latter as IDW has stated the possibility of a tie-in comic to the show alongside the ongoing series; too much similarities and you have a redundant product with too much market overlap and no true audience.

Any references will be subtleties like the ones we've seen thus far.

[ToTheNines]

I would love to see a animated Hob though!

That would be cool. Who could you see voicing him?

[TomWaltz]

In what way? Do you mean them potentially passing you guys notes to "make this/that more like the show" or just in the sense that as soon as you guys at IDW start seeing the show and dig certain elements, maybe that would inspire the IDW universe in unforeseeable ways?

Nah... we're building our own story and as excited as I am for the new show... and as much as I wish it oodles and oodles of success... I have no interest in crossing our stories over (I've got plenty other versions of TMNT to be inspired by already and enough mad plans of my own to keep me busy).

I think what Bobby means is we may have to vet our plots a bit more in advance with Nickelodeon to make sure we're not accidentally spoiling the TV shows planned story lines and vice versa. It would purely be coincidence if this were ever to occur, however, and I honestly don't see it being an issue at all.

IDW TMNT is IDW TMNT, no doubt about it.

[TomWaltz]

For what it's worth, we have zero interaction with the cartoon folks, zero so far is inspired by the new show, though I can see that changing once the show gets underway. But only in the same sense that we're inspired by all the various TMNT incarnations.

I would love to see a animated Hob though!

Though, yeah, gotta admit seeing Hob on the show would rock!

[AquaParade]

Tom, have you been able to get a good look at the upcoming new show?

Any opinions you can share?

[Andrew NDB]

IDW TMNT is IDW TMNT, no doubt about it.

That's what I was hoping you guys would say.

[Bobby Curnow]

Yeah, I just meant we may be inspired the same way we're inspired by the last toon, etc. Who knows, though? Nick has given us zero indication that they want us doing any sort of tie-in or in-story cross promotion.

[ToTheNines]

Nick has given us zero indication that they want us doing any sort of tie-in or in-story cross promotion.

I don't see why they would. The target demographic for this book and the cartoon are a few years apart, plus they're apparently going to have their very own tie-in comic book series.

They've given you guys a lot of freedom so far, I think we can all breathe easy and expect that to continue.

[pannoni1]

Bad idea, this would be akin to a spillover of Mirage into Fred Wolf. That's what the Nick comic is for, just like Archie did for the OT. However, if the show becomes insanely popular they need more episodes, then perhaps some source material from IDW could work. Otherwise, I feel that IDW would have a better shot spilling over into the 2014 movie in a parallel way to Vol. 1, #1-3 for the 1990 movie.

And I'd prefer an older woman's voice with a coarse, grumply tone with some meows for a voice of Old Hob, since cats are often associated with females.

[CyberCubed]

Come to think of it, we've never had a cat mutant in one of the cartoons, aside from the briefly mutated cat-April from Season 2.

Scratch never got an episode in the old show, so we didn't get to see him. The only other cat-creatures are Jaguar and Verminator-X from the Archie series.

[Jester]

But Hob is a male...I know women do BOYS in animation, but not grown men...er... mutant cats.

[Ninjinister]

That would be cool. Who could you see voicing him?

I'd still pull for Clancy Brown, not much of a stretch since he's already confirmed for a role on the show. Barring that? Me. I need work.

[ToTheNines]

I'd still pull for Clancy Brown, not much of a stretch since he's already confirmed for a role on the show. Barring that? Me. I need work.

Clancy has way too much bass to be a cat.

I was thinking more like Cutter Garcia (doing his Torn voice, the first speaking character. He starts talking again at the 27 second mark)

ll4Uo1P8-bA

[Powder]

I've got plenty other versions of TMNT to be inspired by already and enough mad plans of my own to keep me busy.

Then why do you mostly pull from just one of them (the OT)?

[ToTheNines]

We're still very early in the game. I'd look for things to even out once it's all said and done.

[Ninjinister]

While I don't disagree with Cutter's voice, I'm actually borderline offended at your ridiculous reasoning for nixing Clancy.

[Jester]

Then why do you mostly pull from just one of them (the OT)?
Is it just me or did this recent "IDW, more like I.B.FW...am I right?" sentiment come out of nowhere?

While I don't disagree with Cutter's voice, I'm actually borderline offended at your ridiculous reasoning for nixing Clancy.
I actually read Hob as Clancy Brown, thanks to you...

[ToTheNines]

While I don't disagree with Cutter's voice, I'm actually borderline offended at your ridiculous reasoning for nixing Clancy.

Offended for Clancy, or offended for Old Hob/cats?

[Ninjinister]

Offended for Clancy, or offended for Old Hob/cats?

For Clancy. Considering the fact that he's already voiced an anthropomorphic cat:

Ufvx1NheHRw
10:13

and is capable of, like most voice actors a vocal range:

7aoDE9ri5RE
Super Moose at 13:13

There is zero reason he couldn't play "a cat".

[ToTheNines]

For Clancy.

First of all, it's just my unprofessional opinion. No reason for you to be "borderline offended".

That first video (eff you for making me watch Biker Mice :P), is not a good example. That cat is a big hulking creature just like the characters Clancy normally plays like Rhino, Baron Praxis, etc. The character design doesn't resemble Hob in the slightest.

Second video, I'm not doubting his range, but Super Moose isn't helping that.

I didn't mean he can't voice a cat period... I just couldn't possibly imagine his voice coming out of Old Hob's character design.

If it makes you feel any better, I hear Clancy when reading Mr. Null in the Archie books.

[CyberCubed]

How the hell did this thread turn into a debate about Clancy Brown voicing a possible animated Old Hob in the Nick cartoon?

[Samhain]

How the hell did this thread turn into a debate about Clancy Brown voicing a possible animated Old Hob in the Nick cartoon?

This forum, I tell you.:roll:

[Andrew NDB]

That cat is a big hulking creature just like the characters Clancy normally plays like Rhino, Baron Praxis

Or the Kurgan.

http://images.wikia.com/highlander/images/3/3d/H17.jpg

[Raph's Girl]

Clancy has way too much bass to be a cat.


And yet he voices a Grune the Destroyer, a saber toothed cat, in Thundercats. :P

[Powder]

Yeah it's officially time to change the thread name to Clancy Brown Derailment.

[ToTheNines]

How the hell did this thread turn into a debate about Clancy Brown voicing a possible animated Old Hob in the Nick cartoon?

Yeah it's officially time to change the thread name to Clancy Brown Derailment.

Bobby and Tom promptly answered Andrew's question on the first page.

Quit ya'lls bitchin'.


And yet he voices a Grune the Destroyer, a saber toothed cat, in Thundercats. :P

Again, another six-foot-wide steroid kitty.

[Jester]

Re-read issue 6, where Baxter and Hob are discussing Hob's past failures with a kind of "Dumb Lex Luthor" voice, and it may surprise you.

OT though, what about the other way around, would you be opposed to IDW trickling into you're NickToon...

"You got IDW in my NickToon." "You got NickToon in my IDW."
Sorry...couldn't resist.

[TomWaltz]

Tom, have you been able to get a good look at the upcoming new show?

Any opinions you can share?

Honestly, I've seen everything you folks have seen. Nothing to report other than I'm excited to see how it all comes together. I definitely love the toys they've been previewing.

[ToTheNines]

Re-read issue 6, where Baxter and Hob are discussing Hob's past failures with a kind of "Dumb Lex Luthor" voice, and it may surprise you.

Hob's not dumb though. Baxter's just a prick and is belittling an underling in that issue.

[Jester]

No...Hob's kinda dumb.

[Killer Moth]

The only other cat-creatures are Jaguar and Verminator-X from the Archie series.

You're forgetting Hallocat or whatever his name was in issue 27. In fairness, he was a one-shot character, so.

I would add more, yet everything was asked. As for the spillover rate, we'll see. My best estimate is something similar to what DC did with the Teen Titans when the 2003 animated series debuted -- keep them separate, until much later in the comic's series with the occasional sprinkling of the animated's characters and themes. Hard to do it now, when the animated series is still somewhat in pre-production and the comic takes months in advance to produce and already has a good head-start. (Plus, as Mr. Waltz and others has said, everyone is going on their merry way.) Things take time.

[ToTheNines]

No...Hob's kinda dumb.

Well he's no Rhodes Scholar, but reading him with a "Dumb Lex Luthor" voice would come off as too comical for me. He'd sound exactly like Rhino in Spectacular Spider-Man.

the comics take months in advance to produce (and has a good head-start). Things take time.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they began work on the Nicktoon before IDW even made the pitch to get the license.

[Jester]

Perfect. I was looking for the right character. Rhino-Hob works for me...but it is a matter of preference.

[ToTheNines]

but it is a matter of preference.

True, but I don't see how you can apply the same voice to a 400 pound behemoth and a slender mutant alley-cat.

[Jester]

Q5I5OnWn-KE
Kinda like this...

[Killer Moth]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they began work on the Nicktoon before IDW even made the pitch to get the license.

I'm sure of that, but details are quite fluid and change all the time. Using Spider-Man '94 as an example, Vulture's animated design was actually used in a 94 comic, yet the series didn't get around to using him in 95 or 96. The design was already there, but the show had more pressing priorities, which allowed the comic to get around to it sooner.

Of course, animation time is now easier with a CGI series, vs. traditional cel episodes which take 6-9 months to produce. The former obviously makes it easier to add or subtract as you go.

Nonetheless, I am interested in the cross-media appeal, as the OT's middle years -- specifically Season 7 -- drew well from it, for example. Moreover, Mirage didn't do too badly with the introduction of Hun and the Battle Nexus. As long as the book remains relatively intact to its original intent or theme, I'm all for it.

[ToTheNines]

Oh yeah Jester?

EwTZ2xpQwpA

I'm sure of that, but details are quite fluid and change all the time. Using Spider-Man '94 as an example, Vulture's animated design was actually used in a 94 comic, yet the series didn't get around to using him in 95 or 96. The design was already there, but the show had more pressing priorities, which allowed the comic to get around to it sooner.

Ah, understood.

[Xav]

If Clancy Brown should be voicing anyone it should be Hun.

[ToTheNines]

Personally I think he's going to be Leatherhead.

[AquaParade]

Honestly, I've seen everything you folks have seen. Nothing to report other than I'm excited to see how it all comes together. I definitely love the toys they've been previewing.

Cool, cool. I agree that the toys look neat, and the creators seem passionate. Still, some of the previews have me a tad worried. Bah, but who am I to worry about a children's cartoon?

Guess we'll find out soon enough...

[TomWaltz]

Then why do you mostly pull from just one of them (the OT)?

Mostly just to irritate you, Powder, of course.

;)

[Cowabunga Carl]

I got to agree with Powder. So far it seems things are being pulled from the the OT pretty exclusively. I think you're doing a good job on the title over all but it feels like the OT just a little darker.

[CyberCubed]

The problem with sticking too closely to Mirage is it was done before, twice. The 4kids cartoon was already essentially a "reimagining" of many Mirage stories, albeit a bit dumbed down because it was a kids cartoon.

The other thing is the first movie was also a loose adaption of the early Mirage stories.

Do we really need to see the Mirage stuff rehashed a third time? I'd like to see some stuff taken from it, but not everything.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I'm not saying it has to be Mirage, what I'm saying is it seems to be influenced heavily by the OT. I really dig Old Hob. I think he is a great addition to the mythos. Seeing the team bringing in their own thing is great. I even dig Tom's new origin, though it took me a little getting used to. I'd like to see Tom and the guys do their own thing and not rely as heavily pulling from the OT.

[Powder]

Mostly just to irritate you, Powder, of course.

;)

Thanks for the honest answer. :roll:

[Galactus]

The problem with sticking too closely to Mirage is it was done before, twice. The 4kids cartoon was already essentially a "reimagining" of many Mirage stories, albeit a bit dumbed down because it was a kids cartoon.The other thing is the first movie was also a loose adaption of the early Mirage stories.

But were getting what looks like rehashed stories. The upcoming issues sound very much like what happened in Mirage and adapted by the first movie and 4kids series.

Do we really need to see the Mirage stuff rehashed a third time? I'd like to see some stuff taken from it, but not everything.

Do we really need any stuff rehashed? Even with the new twists did we really need an origin or setting up the basics of Mousers and Foot ninja if we're essentialy leading to the same status quo that we've seen throughout every version.

I'd say the vast majority of people who would be inclined to pick up a TMNT book from IDW would have experienced these stories before in one form or another so you could argue we're the only audience that doesn't need it.

[Andrew NDB]

To me, questions like "Do we really need to see X happen again?" or "Do we want X rehashed? How unimaginative of IDW!" seem odd.

This is a new universe and the #1 target audience they're coveting is not the 1,500 or whatever active fans on this forum or even, sadly, the 3,000 fans who were reading Tales of the TMNT Vol. 2... their #1 audience is everybody else. To a large degree, I would hope, this means making things accessible and open to people who have never been TMNT fans... who have never seen April's store burn down, or the Turtles fighting mousers, or the Turtles fighting Shredder on a rooftop.

So what if we're seeing a few shades of old events being redone?

[TomWaltz]

But were getting what looks like rehashed stories. The upcoming issues sound very much like what happened in Mirage and adapted by the first movie and 4kids series.



Do we really need any stuff rehashed? Even with the new twists did we really need an origin or setting up the basics of Mousers and Foot ninja if we're essentialy leading to the same status quo that we've seen throughout every version.

I'd say the vast majority of people who would be inclined to pick up a TMNT book from IDW would have experienced these stories before in one form or another so you could argue we're the only audience that doesn't need it.

I see what you're saying, but I like to think of things like the inclusions of the Mousers in our books so far as more of an homage to what's come before -- respect from us to those who've paved the green road that's brought us to the IDW TMNT comics.

That said, we're gonna start moving into some uncharted territory now and have plenty of NEW surprises in store for both old and new readers -- stuff you've not seen in TMNT comics before. Some of what we have planned is -- if you don't mind my saying -- pretty damn crazy!

Thanks for joining us on the ride!

Tom

[Powder]

I understand the idea behind that, but the Mousers have been in everything. The comics, the OT, the 4kids series. Not really a call back to the comic books in the eyes of casual fans.

I'd like to say I look forward to "stuff you've not seen in TMNT comics before" but I didn't see any of this OT stuff in comics before and I'm not really feelin' it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Its the best use of the Mousers so far. I like there is more than one version running around and serve slightly different functions. I like new twist on old characters that deserve attention. Krang is another great example of that!

Though how much of the reincarnation that is IDW's thing will playout into the overall story planned out? Call me curious.

[CyberCubed]

But were getting what looks like rehashed stories. The upcoming issues sound very much like what happened in Mirage and adapted by the first movie and 4kids series.



Do we really need any stuff rehashed? Even with the new twists did we really need an origin or setting up the basics of Mousers and Foot ninja if we're essentialy leading to the same status quo that we've seen throughout every version.

I'd say the vast majority of people who would be inclined to pick up a TMNT book from IDW would have experienced these stories before in one form or another so you could argue we're the only audience that doesn't need it.

I do expect some reused storylines. If Baxter didn't have any Mousers I'd raise an eyebrow. If Rat King and Leatherhead never show up I'll be shocked.

If Shredder doesn't come back from being defeated or the dead at least once I'll be surprised. If the Turtles don't lose a huge battle to the Foot I would wonder why not.

Some old stories are expected, yes. But the 4kids series brought plenty of new ideas to the table while adapting Mirage material. Hun, Bishop, Ch'rell, Battle Nexus, the Triceratons invading Earth, etc.

I expect IDW to do new things as we've seen with Old Hob and the reincarnation angle.

[Andrew NDB]

I do expect some reused storylines. If Baxter didn't have any Mousers I'd raise an eyebrow. If Rat King and Leatherhead never show up I'll be shocked.

If Shredder doesn't come back from being defeated or the dead at least once I'll be surprised. If the Turtles don't lose a huge battle to the Foot I would wonder why not.

Some old stories are expected, yes. But the 4kids series brought plenty of new ideas to the table while adapting Mirage material. Hun, Bishop, Ch'rell, Battle Nexus, the Triceratons invading Earth, etc.

I expect IDW to do new things as we've seen with Old Hob and the reincarnation angle.

I think I agree with all of this sentiment.

I still kind of finding myself standing back with arms crossed, waiting to see what the eventual status quo will be, and what that will resemble. Or maybe this is in vain and the status quo will prove to be the lack of a status quo... a constant sense of a rug being pulled out from under the Turtles and onto the next thing. I guess that'd be a valid approach, though it might suggest a certain lack of confidence in the Turtles "working"... kind of -- but not quite -- in the same sense that, you know, the comics out there today that seem to rely on either constant, back-to-back "Big Events" or guest spots or crossovers by bigger, more established characters. When the characters are never allowed to sit back and breathe for a time, find their place in things, that to me suggests a certain wariness by TPTB that: "Uh oh... this book might not do so good if we do that." This sense of... keep the ball moving real fast so no one ever really has a chance to sit back and notice the cracks in it all (cracks that are either real or only imagined/feared by TPTB).

Not saying that's what's going on or even what I think is going on, just laying out my thoughts at the moment.

[CyberCubed]

I think I agree with all of this sentiment.

I still kind of finding myself standing back with arms crossed, waiting to see what the eventual status quo will be, and what that will resemble. Or maybe this is in vain and the status quo will prove to be the lack of a status quo... a constant sense of a rug being pulled out from under the Turtles and onto the next thing. I guess that'd be a valid approach, though it might suggest a certain lack of confidence in the Turtles "working"... kind of -- but not quite -- in the same sense that, you know, the comics out there today that seem to rely on either constant, back-to-back "Big Events" or guest spots or crossovers by bigger, more established characters. When the characters are never allowed to sit back and breathe for a time, find their place in things, that to me suggests a certain wariness by TPTB that: "Uh oh... this book might not do so good if we do that." You know, this sense of... keep the ball moving so no one ever really has a chance to sit back and notice the cracks in it all.

I almost feel like the first entire 10 issues will set the status quo. Considering the Turtles eventually meet April somewhere around issue 10 as well as Shredder debuts, that should finally be it.

Its interesting to note that Mirage could tell the entire backstory, have the first Foot and Shredder fight, and debut April/Baxter/Mousers all in the span of 1-2 issues. Even though the page count was higher, it still went much faster back then. Its almost as if in modern comics things need to be slowly shown over time, rather than how it used to be done.

In a way it reminds me of Volume 4. Everyone knows how slowly paced it was, and the waits for the plots to continue went on forever. Its only now that you can read roughly 30 issues of Volume 4 back to back that there is no problem.

I am enjoying the IDW series but it does feel like its taking a while just for everything to be set in motion. Either way I am sure I will follow this series until the day it ends...which hopefully won't be for at least 5 years from now...hopefully longer.

[Andrew NDB]

I almost feel like the first entire 10 issues will set the status quo. Considering the Turtles eventually meet April somewhere around issue 10 as well as Shredder debuts, that should finally be it.

I'm skeptical that a great deal more will be firmly established by then. But that's not a dig at IDW TMNT, just what I'd expect given the general piecemeal pacing of things (which in itself is not a flaw, it's just not what we're used to).

Its interesting to note that Mirage could tell the entire backstory, have the first Foot and Shredder fight, and debut April/Baxter/Mousers all in the span of 1-2 issues. Even though the page count was higher, it still went much faster back then. Its almost as if in modern comics things need to be slowly shown over time, rather than how it used to be done.

I don't know if I'd say "need to be." They don't need to be. Things today seem to be "written for trade," by choice. You pick up a 5 issue trade paperback of the first 5 issues of TMNT Vol. 1 from Mirage, you get 5 excellent stories. But you get 5 stories. You pick up a trade paperback of the first 5 issues of IDW TMNT, you get one story that's fairly easier to digest off the rack and kind of cliffhangs into the next story. Is that better? I don't think so, I'd be the guy saying "Gimme the 5 excellent ****in' stories," but I can understand the rationale behind it. And if print comics as we know them outside of the graphic novel format go away in the next 5-7 years (a very real possibility), maybe it's just getting ahead of the next curve.

And while I agree it's interesting to note -- I think we all have, in the backs of our heads -- I still say that none of what you point out should necessarily be held against IDW TMNT. If TPTB wanted to, of course they could cut a swath through a ton of what the Mirage TMNT series did, and in similar time, even with less pages.

But why do that? This is not a race. I would argue that with things like the Mirage TMNT in the rearview and the opportunity to create and harvest a new universe, I think the apparent inclination of taking all of these great, defining moments (April meeting the Turtles, for example, the first meeting with Shredder, etc.) and spreading them out more liberally makes a lot more sense than... to use a crude metaphor, IDW similarly shooting their wad all at once.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series.

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did.

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

[Cowabunga Carl]

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.


I don't agree. I mean if it did get cancelled 20 issues in then at least there are 20 issues of another Turtleverse. We got another look at the TMNT in a different situation, a different interpretation. I don't call that a failure.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't agree. I mean if it did get cancelled 20 issues in then at least there are 20 issues of another Turtleverse. We got another look at the TMNT in a different situation, a different interpretation. I don't call that a failure.

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

[Jephael]

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Andrew. If anything that's what being a fan should all about... liking every single iteration of the characters, no matter how campy or cornball it may become! I know you don't care for the kid friendly stuff, but being hooked on just the adult oriented material isn't good either. There needs to be a balance.

[azrael]

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

I think more-so its all about enjoyment of the turtles themselves, much like batman they work in everyway. From goof ball camp to dark gritty assassins. I dont care for the OT (I did when I was little) I bought the first two volumes, didnt enjoy it so I dont support it. I dont think you gotta be an ubber fan to consider it a success. Success is user defined, I may draw a pic that is a success to me but you feel I missed what I was trying to portray. I am hoping the IDW verse stays somewhere in-betweeen 4kids and Mirage/Image

[Jester]

I understand where Andrew is coming from, and he's right, true fans should have discernment as to what is good and bad aspects of their franchise, but the constant discounting of what many, like it or not, would consider the most successful TMNT offering to date is just old.

[Powder]

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Andrew. If anything that's what being a fan should all about... liking every single iteration of the characters, no matter how campy or cornball it may become! I know you don't care for the kid friendly stuff, but being hooked on just the adult oriented material isn't good either. There needs to be a balance.

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Jeff. If anything that's what ruins franchises. People accepting any bullsh*t they get handed allows the companies to lower their quality. I used to have this mentality but I can't go with it anymore. As different as the many versions of the TMNT may be, most if not all of them feel right for what they are. If one comes along and doesn't feel like the turtles to you, you shouldn't have to suck it up. As a "true fan" you should humor everything, try it out, but you shouldn't have to force yourself to like it.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, I don't think any fan of a franchise should have their "true fan-ness" (I despise the term "true fan") judged on how much crap they purchase, even if they don't enjoy it.

When it comes to TMNT, I'm mainly only interested in the comics and the cartoons. I don't buy the toys or video games or any other merchandise. I only pay for the cartoons when they hit DVD, and even then, only if they're in sets that appeal to me (chronological seasons, not random best of collections). For the comics, I buy them in singles but not cover variants or trade paperback collections. If a reprint has some bonus material in it, then I'll buy it for that bonus material.

And if something starts to suck, I mean really, really suck, then I stop buying it. At no point should consumers be obligated to purchase a product they don't enjoy and making that decision should have no baring on their "true fan" status.

I stopped buying IDW's Transformers comics when they became terrible, but I'm no less a Transformers fan for it. I stopped watching the 4Kids TMNT cartoon when it became about traveling to Cyberspace to collect Splinter's missing "bits", but I'm no less a TMNT fan for it.

As stated, becoming complacent and buying bad media because you feel you "have to" only encourages companies to release sub-par material.

You talk with your money and that doesn't make you any less of a "true fan".

[oldmanwinters]

I stopped buying IDW's Transformers comics when they became terrible, but I'm no less a Transformers fan for it. I stopped watching the 4Kids TMNT cartoon when it became about traveling to Cyberspace to collect Splinter's missing "bits", but I'm no less a TMNT fan for it.

Ah, com'on, Spengs, I know that you watched most of the BttS season! I remember your comments on all the old episode discussion threads from back in the day!

You're a glutton for punishment!
:twink:

[DrSpengler]

Ah, com'on, Spengs, I know that you watched most of the BttS season! I remember your comments on all the old episode discussion threads from back in the day!

You're a glutton for punishment!
:twink:

I think I only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes; I can't quite recall where I dropped off.

That one where Serling goes back in time and becomes a toy the toddler Turtles save from a toy collector?

I can't remember. But the show sucked.

[oldmanwinters]

I think I only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes; I can't quite recall where I dropped off.

That one where Serling goes back in time and becomes a toy the toddler Turtles save from a toy collector?

I can't remember. But the show sucked.

Well... maybe you're right, I went back and skimmed those old threads and the only thing that jumped out at me was that you gave some praise to "Engagement Ring," ep. #4. The series was pretty much downhill after that.:tcry:

I agree with you about the ridiculousness of the "true fan" concept.

[Jester]

I agree with you about the ridiculousness of the "true fan" concept.
I don't know I was thinking of creating a "You might be a True TMNT Fan..." thread. :P

[CyberCubed]

Well so far nobody here has dropped the IDW series, so I guess Tom Waltz is doing his job. The IDW series is shapin up nicely but I can see how the slow pacing might make people eager to get a move on already.

[Jephael]

I know I've been digging it, though the only thing that kind of irks me is the reincarnation plotline. To me it's sort of a weird way of saying the Turtles were once human. It's one thing to do that with Splinter since those of us who grew up with the cartoon are used to Splinter and Hamato Yoshi being one and the same but the TMNT being his human sons in a past life kinda rubs me the wrong way.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

I'm not saying it would be considered a success, what I'm saying is at least we will have had a fun look at another take of the TMNT.

There are things about the IDW that bug me. Not everything they have done sits well with me. But mostly it's been a fun ride. I'm looking forward to the next set of micros.

So that is why I wouldn't say it was a failure. To me a failure would be if I wasn't at least entertained by it.

[ToTheNines]

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

That absolutely will not happen. The ongoing, the micros, the Ultimate hardcovers and the TPB have all sold very well so far. TMNT is IDW's best selling product.

Sales numbers will do nothing but rise once the new cartoon comes out, and then do it again if that live-action movie ever gets made.

[azrael]

Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series.

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did.

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

Im not trying to be offensive when I say this but do you always have to be a "nay-sayer?"

TMNT is IDW's highest selling comic, you wont have to worry about it until sales get in the 3-5k selling range.

I am sure IDW will rush the ending to end the series much like DC did with the new 52. As of right now TMNT has held on to IDW's top seller ever since issue 1.

The series is a success in their eyes and if you have been enjoying the series and keep coming back each month then you to must consider it a success.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT is still young and there is a drop off of readers of any series once the initial newness wears off. The people who stay on for year two either enjoy the book or are big Turtle fans.

Hopefully sales remain stable in the second year instead of what happened to Image.

[Cowabunga Carl]

The book is a solid read right now. No one knows what will happen down the line in regards to how long it will go. I'd love to see it go for years to come. That's me being optimistic.

But back on topic a little. The more I think about the Nick toon starting up and the comic I could see them bot influencing each other. Maybe the IDW guys make a character the show guys like and likewise the other way. This might not be a bad thing though.

[TomWaltz]

So... finally got a chance this week to read a bunch of the new animated show's scripts. Can't say a whole lot about the specifics (sworn to secrecy on penalty of a slow, torturous death) but will tell you all this much:

If this show (and its associated merchandise) doesn't create a whole new wave of TMNT Mania, especially amongst youngsters, I will honestly be shocked. Every script I've read has been enjoyable from start to finish -- action-packed, funny, and dramatic where it needs to be. It is true to the heart and soul of TMNT animated history, but it's definitely not the 80's toon, nor the 4Kids toon. Nah, it is most definitely its own thing and, man, it's really good!

The Turtles will reign supreme once again -- I'm calling it right now. And I couldn't be prouder to be a part of it, both as a creator AND a fan!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

[FearlessLeader]

So... finally got a chance this week to read a bunch of the new animated show's scripts. Can't say a whole lot about the specifics (sworn to secrecy on penalty of a slow, torturous death) but will tell you all this much:

If this show (and its associated merchandise) doesn't create a whole new wave of TMNT Mania, especially amongst youngsters, I will honestly be shocked. Every script I've read has been enjoyable from start to finish -- action-packed, funny, and dramatic where it needs to be. It is true to the heart and soul of TMNT animated history, but it's definitely not the 80's toon, nor the 4Kids toon. Nah, it is most definitely it's own thing and, man, it's really good!

The Turtles will reign supreme once again -- I'm calling it right now. And I couldn't be prouder to be a part of it, both as a creator AND a fan!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

Thank you for taking the time to share this sentiment with us Tom!

I am even more excited for the show then I was before... if that's even possible! :tgrin:

[nickn]

man, I sure hope not. On the other hand I would not be against them doing a separate comic, even if IDW does it. Just for the younger generation, almost like the archie comics were to the cartoon on T.V.

[oldmanwinters]

Tom, do you know anything about what comic publisher might take the reins of the adaptation of the Nick cartoon?

[CyberCubed]

Man I hope the Nick show is awesome. As long as it isn't too dumbed down for kids where older fans can't enjoy it I hope to have fun with it.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Tom that's awesome. It's great to hear that you think the TMNT will come back stronger then ever. I'm really excited to see it myself.

Any word yet of IDW will be doing a comic based on the show?

[TomWaltz]

Tom that's awesome. It's great to hear that you think the TMNT will come back stronger then ever. I'm really excited to see it myself.

Any word yet of IDW will be doing a comic based on the show?

I believe we will be doing a comic based on the show. It will definitely be its own thing, separate from our normal ongoing series.

[CyberCubed]

I believe we will be doing a comic based on the show. It will definitely be its own thing, separate from our normal ongoing series.

Cool. Will it be comic adaptions of the episodes though or all new stories set in the Nick show universe?

Although its probably too early to be askin this.

[tylerstafford]

I think the biggest thing that hurt the longevity of TMNT in the 90s was the lack of continuity between the show, movies, and comics. i'd hate to see that being repeated all over again with space turtles in the movies, reincarnated turtles in the comics and who-knows-what in the cartoon.

[Jester]

Yep. A 10 year run... that sucks! Pretty sure what killed Turtle-mania, like all fads before it, was a new fad, IE Power Rangers (and then Pokemon).

[Andrew NDB]

I think the biggest thing that hurt the longevity of TMNT in the 90s was the lack of continuity between the show, movies, and comics.

I think that was its biggest asset. Something for little kids, something for somewhat older kids, and something for young adults-grownups. Take away any one of those and you're just castrating the franchise.

[Ninjinister]

I think the biggest thing that hurt the longevity of TMNT in the 90s was the lack of continuity between the show, movies, and comics. i'd hate to see that being repeated all over again with space turtles in the movies, reincarnated turtles in the comics and who-knows-what in the cartoon.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/80s/sites/tampabay.com.blogs.80s/files/images/typepad-legacy-files/50343.6a00d83451b05569e2011570999e8e970b-800wi.jpg
Don't be ridiculous.

[CyberCubed]

Yep. A 10 year run... that sucks! Pretty sure what killed Turtle-mania, like all fads before it, was a new fad, IE Power Rangers (and then Pokemon).

Agreed, Volume 2 ended in 1995, didn't it? And the original cartoon and Archie ended around 1995/1996 as well. So the entire first generation of TMNT had a shelf life of 10 years. I'd say that was pretty damn good.

The second generation began in 2001 with Volume 4, then continued with the 4kids show in 2003, the second wave of Tales and the 4th movie...which also has a 7-8 year run.

I don't know what people could be complaining about. With any luck the IDW comics and the Nick cartoon will last for at least 5-7 years.

[azrael]

I know I wont buy the TMNT animated verse unless this one really starts to stink it up. However I will be buying the action figures those look amazing I love it.

I do hope its different stories though for the people buy it.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series.

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did.

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

15 years later, it will still be going lol

[shredder orokusaki]

Yes and do you know why after 15 is so suuccesful? Because i the shredder iam in most issues and fight and brutally kill all my enemies. While the 2018 tv series and the 2024 both failed especial the 2024(tales of tmnt) becausei wasnt there and in 2018 i was only in vew few episodes. THE TURTLES CAN NOT SURVICE WITHOUT ME!

[CyberCubed]

So... finally got a chance this week to read a bunch of the new animated show's scripts. Can't say a whole lot about the specifics (sworn to secrecy on penalty of a slow, torturous death) but will tell you all this much:

If this show (and its associated merchandise) doesn't create a whole new wave of TMNT Mania, especially amongst youngsters, I will honestly be shocked. Every script I've read has been enjoyable from start to finish -- action-packed, funny, and dramatic where it needs to be. It is true to the heart and soul of TMNT animated history, but it's definitely not the 80's toon, nor the 4Kids toon. Nah, it is most definitely its own thing and, man, it's really good!

The Turtles will reign supreme once again -- I'm calling it right now. And I couldn't be prouder to be a part of it, both as a creator AND a fan!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

It's great to see this turned out true as well. The 2012 show really did bring in a whole new generation of younger fans (back then), who are now in their early 20's. Crazy to think 2012 was almost 15 years ago. All the kids from the Nick 2012 era are now adults!

[Heyowakka]

I can feel my bones turning into a fine powder this very moment.