What should the first cartoon be called now?

[CyberCubed]

Now that there's 3 different TMNT cartoons, what should the first cartoon be identified as the most? The second series has often been refered to as "The 4kids series" or "The 2k3 series."

The old show has been called "the original series," the "Fred Wolf show" or "the 80's series." What should it be identified as?

Personally I prefer calling it "the original series" or "OS" as it reminds me of Star Trek.

[Andrew NDB]

Personally I hate calling it "the original series" or "The OS" because it's a bit misleading... or at least a bit incomplete. And because it sh*ts a bit on the source material.

"The original series" is the original Mirage comic book series. Period. The Fred Wolf material can be called "The Original Cartoon" or "TOA" (the original animated) or something, but "OS" has always bothered me.

[Jester]

What he always say about the FW series being a complete bastardization of the source material.
I'll just leave this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5549-Shell-Shock) here...

As for what to call it, I vote for Fred Wolf series, or FW series. Use it, 4Kids series, and Nick Series...and there you go.

[Andrew NDB]

For the record, I wasn't saying the Fred Wolf series is a bastardization of the source material (though it absolutely is, but that's absolutely a separate discussion)... by "it sh**s on the source material" I only mean that calling the Fred Wolf series confuses the issue and the masses about what "the original series" really is.

For example, someone that's never watched or read any TMNT cartoons or movies or comics, if you tell them, "Fred Wolf is the original series," they are going to arbitrarily assume -- and why wouldn't they? -- that the Fred Wolf cartoon is ground zero of all TMNT ever.

And it's not. It's absolutely not.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I've like OT or OS

[Andrew NDB]

"OT" is even worse. "Original Turtles"? That's just plain incorrect, borderline ignorant.

[Jester]

Original Toon, Andrew... Original TOON.

[Powder]

I'll stick with my OT abbreviation when in reference on the boards, at least.

[Jester]

As long as we know what people mean, it really doesn't matter. It's mostly personal preference. :D

[Andrew NDB]

Original Toon, Andrew... Original TOON.

As long as that's universally understood. I fear "Toon" would become lost and misinterpreted among the masses as "Turtles."

[Jester]

The masses outside this board, maybe, but if we're talking about usage here, most of us understand that OT means Original or Old Toon.

[Andrew NDB]

The masses outside this board, maybe

I thought that was kind of the purpose of this thread, though. "What should the Fred Wolf cartoon be called, en masse?" That was the implication I got from the original poster... and that kinda transcends the Drome.

Correct me if I'm wrong, CyberCubed.

[Luzmagica]

In my case ...since Im collecting items in English I had learn OT (Old/Original Toon) as a short name for the "First animation series" (as we use to say in Spanish)....

[Revan]

Original Toon, Andrew... Original TOON.

That's what I have always used

OT for the 1987 Fred Wolf series and 4kids for the 2003 series

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

1987 TMNT cartoon. That company was actually called Murakami Wolf Swenson back in those days.

[pannoni1]

The first choice stems from Star Trek, which is logical since after this was "The Next Mutation". Its just a matter of preference like others have said, and most books will probably mention 1987, 80's, 1980s-1990s, and perhaps Fred Wolf. OT is very casual sounding, but I still like to use on the boards for easy reference. I also might say "original cartoon", "MWS", "first cartoon", "first series", "80's (90's) cartoon", or perhaps "Series 1".

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Or maybe OT as in "Oldest Toon"

[ToTheNines]

**** this thread.

[MikeandRaph87]

I always called it the '87 series/cartoon. When I think of it to myself I think Definitive Version. '87 series/cartoon work for those who may disagree and '03 series/cartoon works for the second cartoon. That works when identifying specific versions.

[ABrown]

As far as the cartoons go, I consider it the "original cartoon" or "original series".

[oldmanwinters]

I'll just leave this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5549-Shell-Shock) here...


Now that, I like.

The more I hang around the internet, the more I feel like everybody is just turning into Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons... with no self-awareness.

[SherlockJr]

I call it the OT for "Original Toon"; when I'm talking about it with a non-Turtle fan, I just call it the 80s cartoon.

[sdp]

Well the 2k3 show was often called the NT here for "new" toon and sometimes 2k3, only towards the end of the run the NT was was mostly called 2k3 instead of NT. OT "old/original toon" always sounded bad to me. I'd much prefer naming it by date, TMNT 87/88 short and simple. That is also the time when the year the show starts to take place in. To me the debate should be whether we call it TMNT 87 or 88, technically it started in 87 but it was during mid December 1987, and Turtles Forever calls them TMNT 88 and that's really the year most people even knew what the turtles were, however wikipedia and most fans refer to the show as the 87 cartoon. I've noticed more people calling it the FW cartoon but I think 88 fits better.

[Xav]

Shouldn't we call it by the year it came out, and not the year someone knew who the turtles were?

[Oculus Orbus]

I've always used OT, as in "Original Toon". I don't like it being referred to as Original Series.

[rufus]

I just usually call it Fred Wolf turtles or the 80's cartoon turtles.

[sdp]

Shouldn't we call it by the year it came out, and not the year someone knew who the turtles were?

Well was the OT originally supposed to come out in 88? Why are they called TMNT 88 in Turtles Forever. I'm all for them being 87 but if they're officially considered 88..

[Killer Moth]

I always called it the '87 series/cartoon. When I think of it to myself I think Definitive Version. '87 series/cartoon work for those who may disagree and '03 series/cartoon works for the second cartoon. That works when identifying specific versions.

Yes, I usually defer to it as the 87 series, as my shorthand. I suppose I could call it "TOS," but I usually use that for Star Trek, as someone else cited. Although, I have noticed the "Fred Wolf toon" term is getting more and more traction, these days.

Or, perhaps, try "1st animated Turtles series," though, that can be annoying and lengthy to type over and over, especially if you're in a rush. Maybe "1st toon" as a compromise? Although, whomever said "Series 1," I do like, as well.

Edit: Maybe so, oldmanwinters, as the lack of self-awareness or the high amount of hyper-sensitivity will never be lost on the internet-tubes (thanks to the new generation of Comic Guy Fans). Or, that comes with age, as I take myself far less seriously online than I was, even a few years ago. Takes time.

[MikeandRaph87]

Now that, I like.

The more I hang around the internet, the more I feel like everybody is just turning into Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons... with no self-awareness.

Now,that I had a chance to watch the clip I have to agree with him and agree on pretty much everything he said. The other media does wonders for comics and that is pretty much what I like in TMNT aside from a few characters like Venus.

KM,I don't think of it as FW because it was MFS during its production. With that in mind it makes it simplier to go with the year it started and say it as that cartoon/series. My few TMNT friends and I say it that way in conversation. I will probably say the '12 cartoon/series as I already started in offline conversations about it.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I thought that was kind of the purpose of this thread, though. "What should the Fred Wolf cartoon be called, en masse?" That was the implication I got from the original poster... and that kinda transcends the Drome.

i dunno if people outide the Drome wouldn't get that OT stands for Original Toon and not Original Turtles, specially if they only know the old show. They would probably get OT over Fred Wolf Cartoon or any of the other suggestions cept maybe 80's TMNT Show

now for people who know zip about TMNT that's another matter, they'd likely not care

[gobo]

I'd like to add "ya mama" to the list.

Really dumb, unnecessary question, IMO.

[BubblyShell22]

Call it whatever the hell you want. How's that? :)

But I refer to it as the 80's series.

[shezcrafti]

i dunno if people outide the Drome wouldn't get that OT stands for Original Toon and not Original Turtles, specially if they only know the old show. They would probably get OT over Fred Wolf Cartoon or any of the other suggestions cept maybe 80's TMNT Show

now for people who know zip about TMNT that's another matter, they'd likely not care

Speaking as someone who's a relative newcomer around these parts, it took me a few days to understand that "OT" meant "original toon." Hope this is helpful feedback.

I agree with those saying the shows should be referenced by year. It's how we differentiate films with the same name/title (e.g. Fright Night 1985 vs. Fright Night 2011); why not do the same for TV shows?

[Nintendophile]

I'd have to agree with the people suggesting to refer to the shows by year. '80s Series for the "Original Animated Series", 2K3 Series for the "Second Animated Series", and 2012 Series for the "Current Series" or "Nick Series". It just seems to be the most descriptive, and makes the most sense.

[Xav]

Well was the OT originally supposed to come out in 88? Why are they called TMNT 88 in Turtles Forever. I'm all for them being 87 but if they're officially considered 88.. I think it's because the 5-part mini-series came out in 87, but the show didn't start it's official run until 88.

[gobo]

The pilot miniseries was December 28, 1987 through January 01, 1988. So, three days after Christmas this year is the 25th anniversary of the OT.

[Xav]

Actually it was December 14, 1987 through December 18, 1987.

[Andrew NDB]

Call it whatever the hell you want. How's that? :)

Seriously? OK, great, how about "Gigantic pile of steaming..." oh, right. I'd better just bite my tongue.

[oldmanwinters]

Seriously? OK, great, how about "Gigantic pile of steaming..." oh, right. I'd better just bite my tongue.

Once upon a time, Andrew (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=21010). Once upon a time...
:twink:

[ToTheNines]

Actually it was December 14, 1987 through December 18, 1987.

Says who??

[MikeandRaph87]

Actually it was December 14, 1987 through December 18, 1987.

That is what I thought it was. at least that was what Molly Bode compiled all those years ago. I was a bed baby back then. Did anyone actually watch the very first airing to have a confirmed date?

As for the steaming pile that is Image.

[Jester]

As for the steaming pile that is Image.
Have you read them? I thought that they were a steaming turd too, until I actually took the time to read the issues, and found them to be quite enjoyable.

[sdp]

The 80s turtle is not specific enough, to me and many the turtles aren't a show from just the 80s, they were a bigger part of the 90s even if it technically began in the 80s.

[MikeandRaph87]

Have you read them? I thought that they were a steaming turd too, until I actually took the time to read the issues, and found them to be quite enjoyable.

I have read the first three. Could not stand it. I am not a fan of blood and guts. The "death" of Donatello and that shark on #3's cover not being Armaggon were huge diappointments. I like my porridge just right and this was far from the '87 series I grew up with or other great versions like the movies or 2003 cartoon. We have versions that we love and one or two we just rather ignore. :tcry:

As for the actual date thing I think its safe to say December 1987 and maybe the exact date is lost and only a suggestion. Mrs. Bode's records may not be entirely accurate but I trust her compliation.

[gobo]

Says who??
I was gonna say that! :P The Library Of Congress has them on record for the dates I mentioned.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Speaking as someone who's a relative newcomer around these parts, it took me a few days to understand that "OT" meant "original toon." Hope this is helpful feedback.

oh, ok my bad

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

28 December 1987

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-12-28/entertainment/ca-21302_1_mutant-ninja-turtles

[ToTheNines]

Have you read them? I thought that they were a steaming turd too, until I actually took the time to read the issues, and found them to be quite enjoyable.

Same here. Berger's synopsis's don't do them justice at all.

I have read the first three. Could not stand it. I am not a fan of blood and guts. The "death" of Donatello and that shark on #3's cover not being Armaggon were huge diappointments. I like my porridge just right and this was far from the '87 series I grew up with or other great versions like the movies or 2003 cartoon. We have versions that we love and one or two we just rather ignore. :tcry:

You've got to give it more of a chance than that. The first arc is very clunky. Things don't get good until 6-8.

The Library Of Congress has them on record for the dates I mentioned.

So does Molly Bode's compilation on the official Ninja Turtles website. I wish I knew what these guys' source was.

[Walkabout]

Once upon a time, Andrew (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=21010). Once upon a time...
:twink:


I just sprayed mouthfull of beer all over my monitor and keyboard, there's tears in my eyes...

[Xav]

Says who?? The Internet Movie Database.

[Killer Moth]

28 December 1987

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-12-28/entertainment/ca-21302_1_mutant-ninja-turtles

First off, my thanks for the review. Brutal, but not surprising from the L.A. Times. Even so, it is a tad unfair to judge only the pilot episode and not the rest of the mini-series. Most series take a while to get its footing, and most pilot episodes aren't as captivating as they ought to be. (I do include the 87 series, for I personally didn't like "Turtle Tracks" as much as I did as a kid. The comedy was good, yes, but it should have been more spread out throughout the series, instead going all in into the first episode. "Enter the Shredder" and onwards, the quality improves greatly, however.) Still, no love at all for the visual treat that was the epic Turtle/Foot Soldier fight, Mr. Solomon? Oh, well, your loss.

Then again, if the L.A. Times did like the show, I'd question on whether I should. Heh.

Between that review and the Library of Congress, I believe the airdate issue to be late December. I do recall reading reports about the show launching around Christmas -- didn't that recently re-released Comics Journal interview with Eastman also say the same thing -- so it all makes sense.

When did Season 2 first premiere in 88, anyway? September or October? That's not a long wait, as MWS probably went to work straight away after the mini-series' debut. In the world of 80's animation and five part pilot mini-series vs. seasonal pick-ups, that's fast.

Anyway, to get back on topic a little, I, too, had my slight slip-ups with the OT term after I joined the forum. (Shezcrafti expressed the same issue, so she isn't alone about this.) After using the "87 series" for almost a year elsewhere online, to see "OT" constantly used on here, it took some re-adjustment on my part. No worries.

TV Tropes.org, as part of their Turtles Forever entry, had been using 87 insert-character-name in their trope listings. Could say 87 Turtles or Turtles 87, or some variation of that.

[gobo]

So, Molly Bode, The Library of Congress and The L.A. Times vs IMDB... Tough call.

[Sage Ninja]

I've always called it the "classic series", because it was a classic to me from my childhood.

[Jephael]

I've always called it the "classic series", because it was a classic to me from my childhood.

That's what I like to call it.

[Fugitoid Jones]

What I call the original cartoon series really just depends on my mood. Sometimes it's OT (Old/Original Toon), FW, or 87 Series. It's really hard to get any of those confused with anything else.

[Candy Kappa]

I always saw OT as "Old Toon" since it's not the original.

gotta say I prefer "Fred Wolf cartoon/series"

[Venom]

"OT", for "Old Toon" or "Original Toon".

Off the net, folks I've spoken to refer to the old toon as "the old toon/show/cartoon".

[pferreira]

'The 80's TMNT show' might be the best option. I can't imagine trying to explain to people generally that I like the Fred Wolf series and them understanding what I'm going on about. :lol:

[Stingray69]

Yea I like ot the best.

[CyberCubed]

So I guess "Original toon" makes the most sense, and is more recognizable to casual fans as well.

I agree someone saying, "Did you watch the Fred Wolf TMNT show?" and they'll wonder who the hell Fred Wolf is.