The "honorable" Foot Clan

[Jester]

So we all know the story (well the Fred Wolf story anyway). Hamato Yoshi is the shidoshi of the Foot Clan. He has a student who wants to take over (usurp his (Yoshi's) leadership of) the Clan, Oroku Saki. Yoshi is framed for a plot to kill the Master Sensei and kicked out of the clan and Saki took control, corrupting Yoshi's teachings and bringing dishonor on the noble Foot Clan, as Splinter says in Shredder is Splintered. But how could the clan be so easily swayed? One man can take a once noble clan of ninjas and turn them into "an army of crime"?

I know Archie retconned a lot of this, so lets stick to the FW back story. Could it be that Yoshi wasn't set up by Saki alone? I know it's an odd theory, but it seems off that only one man could make a ninja clan do a complete 180. Then again, assuming that the honorable Hamato Yoshi kept the clan from doing dirty deeds, seems to be an equally big stretch...so I dunna. Just food for thought.

My personal theory, that I've only been nursing for about 10 minutes, so it's probably full of holes as well, is that the Master Sensei was in on Saki's plan. That he was sick of the goodie-goodie Yoshi trying to make the Foot a clan of "good" ninjas, whatever that is, and created this plan to give him grounds to "banish [Yoshi] from the Foot Clan all together." I mean, there was no trial. Nobody dusted the dagger for prints, which would show Saki handles the dagger as well. Nope, Hamato Yoshi is just sent packing, Saki replaces him, and the clan instantly makes a turn to criminal activity...seems a bit too easy if you ask me.

:D

[Candy Kappa]

something is indeed iffy with the whole ordeal.

another idea could be that the old master suddenly vanishes, and with no new heir been appointed. Saki takes charge

[Killer Moth]

Your theory isn't a bad one, as GI Joe Renegades basically did the same thing with the Arashikage Clan. It was considering reform when Snake Eyes joined until Storm Shadow attempted to stop that. Though, he changed his mind much later in the series (or gave his blessing so that Jinx can do it, or something like that, as I haven't seen the show in a while).

Or, maybe Yoshi didn't have much stock with the Clan higher-ups, anyway, so it all could have been a pretense to get rid of him, sure. And yet, the really hinky aspect, as he didn't protest about the knife or the possibility he might have been framed. Unless he was so shocked, especially as everyone jumped to conclusions so rapidly, which is possible. Or, maybe he has having second thoughts about what the Clan was becoming, and get away from the ninjas and cut his losses. I know the Missing Map later implied Splinter had evidence to vindicate himself, but it isn't like Wise considered that at the time.

I'm more concerned about how the Foot reacted to Saki saying, "screw you guys, I'm going to America with my Technodrome and my Ninja robots." Maybe they signed off on that, too, as, after all, the Foot symbol is on the Technodrome.

So many plotholes. Was it really worth "throw the bum out"? At least, the line or its delivery was pretty funny.

[Stingray69]

Well if some how he managed to become master sensie. Say maybe killed him or told him to step down becuase he saved his life and it would be a honorable way to repay him. Then he would have easily been able to control the rest of the clan. And have them do his bidding. The japenesse have a history of being very loyal to there leaders.

[Killer Moth]

Well if some how he managed to become master sensie. Say maybe killed him or told him to step down becuase he saved his life and it would be a honorable way to repay him. Then he would have easily been able to control the rest of the clan. And have them do his bidding. The japenesse have a history of being very loyal to there leaders.

Right, right. Saki probably or most would likely would have to build his resources beforehand, form connections with other Foot members (since his family being in charge of the Foot isn't an factor, like it would be with the Mirage version), and had to wait to make his big move. He obviously picked that time with the Master Sensei's visit for that specific outcome, because that really could have blown up in his face. You don't do such a bold move, unless you're very sure it will go your way or have enough in place to assure influence on whatever it is you want to control.

Moreover, we don't know the details of Saki's rise to power, anyway, beyond what Yoshi said about him briefly. Unless Yoshi was that complacent (he did love reading those art books and he was a quiet man, after all), didn't see what Saki was doing and possibly manuevering Yoshi into place. Then came the public shaming, and Saki basically "pwned" him.

I don't care for all this speculation, but, hey, it isn't like "Turtle Tracks" provided all that much. What else can we do?

[MikeandRaph87]

Refresh my memory someone, in "White Belt,Black Heart" who was Master Mogo-San to Hamato Yoshi? That was not him that said "Throw the bum out!" after the frame was it?

[Jester]

He obviously picked that time with the Master Sensei's visit for that specific outcome, because that really could have blown up in his face. You don't do such a bold move, unless you're very sure it will go your way or have enough in place to assure influence on whatever it is you want to control.
All the more reason to question if the Foot higher ups, who were so quick to judge and dismiss Yoshi, were in on the plot from the word go.


Refresh my memory someone, in "White Belt,Black Heart" who was Master Mogo-San to Hamato Yoshi? That was not him that said "Throw the bum out!" after the frame was it?

He was Splinter's teacher, but he wasn't the Master Sensei. One wonders if Yoshi replaced Master Mogo as the shidoshi of the Foot Clan, since they seem to share similar philosophies.

[oldmanwinters]

Seems like Jester and I theorized about Master Sensei's relationship to the Foot Clan in one of our commentaries on either White Belt, Black Heart or Shredder and Splintered.

I think my thought was that Yoshi's Foot Clan school had entered into an alliance with Master Sensei and given up some of their local autonomy. Thus, Master Sensei had authority to pull rank on the dojo's leadership. Once Saki took over, he either usurped the alliance or else broke off the Foot's association with alliance.

Seriously, though, I have no idea. That was just the best "Marvel No Prize" explanation I could think of.

[Killer Moth]

Refresh my memory someone, in "White Belt,Black Heart" who was Master Mogo-San to Hamato Yoshi? That was not him that said "Throw the bum out!" after the frame was it?

Mogo-San was Yoshi's sensei and shares an obvious friendship with the latter, but didn't know about Yoshi's mutation originally. His design proves, yeah, he's not the "Throw the bum out" sensei. I'm also pretty sure he isn't affiliated with the Foot in any way, but someone else could refresh my memory.

One of these days, we should address the other contemporary people in Yoshi's pre-mutation life (not counting Saki, of course). Then, there is Yoku, who supposedly trained with Yoshi, and the Turtles already knew of his existence, so.

Edit: And I'm late to the draw. Whoops.

[Stingray69]

He obviously picked that time with the Master Sensei's visit for that specific outcome, because that really could have blown up in his face. You don't do such a bold move, unless you're very sure it will go your way or have enough in place to assure influence on whatever it is you want to do?

Not saying your wrong or that I don't agree but Ive never heard of someone committing a crime or a take over like in this case, and not think that it would go there way. I mean look at saki yea he seems very smart at times but there's also got to be something wrong with you in the head to do the things he does.

[Killer Moth]

Not saying your wrong or that I don't agree but Ive never heard of someone committing a crime or a take over like in this case, and not think that it would go there way. I mean look at saki yea he seems very smart at times but there's also got to be something wrong with you in the head to do the things he does.

Well, there is always intellectual laziness, which is a flaw of 87 Shredder. Maybe he went the Underpants Gnome logic course about how the Master Sensei would fall for such a set of events.

Step 1: Plant knife on Yoshi (and hope the Master Sensei will take the right conclusion).

Step 2: ? or Master Sensei falls for it for whatever reason.

Step 3: Yoshi is out, and profit.

There is also Saki's initial motivation to consider, but it seems to be classic ambition. The rest came later, and fell into place (being Shredder, meeting with Krang) for his more fleshed out world domination plans.

Maybe the Foot Clan's standards in the 87 series were just too lax and anyone could have took over, Saki or not. The citizens in New York had an interesting disconnect or lack of proper intellectual curiosity from the beginning (for an example, see the professor with the rope, and apparently ignoring the tied-up security guard). Could say the same about the series' version of the Japanese people or the Foot Clan members other than Saki and Yoshi. I dunno.

[Stingray69]

O I just thought of something maybe in the foot if you challenge the master to a fight and beat him you can take over as master. I dont know but it seems plausible.

Edit: I'm watching enter the lotus right now. In it krang tells shredder that lotus is going to replace him. He then challenges her to a ninja contest. Shredder lost and left the technadrome willingly. So in my mind that gives done credit to this theory.

[Mutagen]

Saki took control, corrupting Yoshi's teachings and bringing dishonor on the noble Foot Clan, as Splinter says in Shredder is Splintered. But how could the clan be so easily swayed? One man can take a once noble clan of ninjas and turn them into "an army of crime"?

Thats fairly easy to explain.
-First of all, Shredder uses force and scare tactics. This is pretty much how he got ninjas to work for him in 'Return of Shredder'.
-Even if discarding this fact, the turning of the Foot Clan wasnt done overnight and took years it seems. In that case, a lot could have happened. members could have been become more attracted to the dark side with time and Shredders teachings
-Seeing how Shredder commands, plots and works in the series, it seems fair to say that he replaced the then-current members with evil thugs or greedy ninjas he himself had recruited. He always seems to pick his own henchmen

In the contemporary timeline the foot clan exists in name only pretty much, since the ninjas are all rKrang;s robots

[Kendamu]

A simpler solution would be that Saki could've just as easily used the same trickery that got Yoshi banned to make his way completely up the ladder, positioning himself just right and manipulating all of his competition out of the way so that when the Soke (Grandmaster) retired, Saki would replace him. He could've had inside help from people like the "throw the bum out!" guy (martial arts organizations can be full of dirty politics).

Once he got to the highest status, he probably had a close-knit group of other teachers and students who followed and helped him along the way and they started using their Ninja skills for personal criminal gain. Since this was a 1980s children's action comedy cartoon meant to sell a then-small line of toys, it came in the form of mugging people at spear-point while wearing ninja costumes.

Eventually, Saki (maybe before or maybe after adopting the "Shredder" identity) probably came across Krang and, through his resources, closed up shop in terms of teaching martial arts as organized crime and started making ninja robots instead. For any sort of work that required actual humans, he used a small gang of hired thugs.

If for some reason Saki didn't make his way to the head of the Foot Clan, he could've been like Saki in the comics: head of a specific branch of the Foot Clan acting against orders from the main branch. Splinter's comment on bringing dishonor amongst the clan would still stand, too, because even if the Foot was legit overall, having a bunch of guys clad in your school's uniforms involved in a lot of criminal activity will still tarnish the school's reputation.