Karai to be in new comic?

[TurtleMaster4]

So guys, what do you think, will Karai be in the new comic. Will she be shredders Daughter like in the 4 kids series? And lastly, what side do you want her to end up on, the good guy or the bad guys

Sorry if the poll is confusing.

[Andrew NDB]

Definitely.

[MikeandRaph87]

I only just learned she was not Shredder's step-daughter outside of the 2003 cartoon having only known her from Berger's synopsis beforehand and the one video game and for that reason its kind of the way I see her. I like the conflicted character. I am one who likes character studies which is why I would like to see Slash. Karai is another one that would have a lot of characterization in store especially if she is Shredder's step-daughter.

[ZariusTwo]

She should be something she's never been before

Like a...car or something.

[MikeandRaph87]

She should be something she's never been before

Like a...car or something.

You mean she should get a part in a remake of this?:trazz:

9kz3hfJweE0

[ZariusTwo]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VlmHNP9So5Y/SkiaQXbqmPI/AAAAAAAACBM/kmCf--bX7Lg/s400/michael-knight-rider-hoff.jpg

"Karai I need ya buddy"

[Candy Kappa]

If she is in the IDW comic, I hope they stay away from the 4kids version, far, far away.

[Dirty Blond]

Welcome back, ZariusTwo!

I would like to see Karai in the IDW world, for sure, but I'd like to see her more evil than even Shredder.

[CyberCubed]

Alopex is Karai reincarnated from 500 years ago.

[MikeandRaph87]

If she is in the IDW comic, I hope they stay away from the 4kids version, far, far away.

Really? I appreciated the complexity of the character as seen in the 2003 cartoon and well, I thought that was how she was depicted in the Mirage Comics. How is she different in the Mirage Comics or at least more towards you preference?

[Andrew NDB]

Really? I appreciated the complexity of the character as seen in the 2003 cartoon and well, I thought that was how she was depicted in the Mirage Comics. How is she different in the Mirage Comics or at least more towards you preference?

Let's go with... credibility? Just for starters.

[ZariusTwo]

I had a bit of a problem with Karai going from chaotic neutral to outright bad in the 4Kids cartoon, it just didnt gel with the way her comics character had been portrayed...and then I was equally dismayed when Laird started turning her into a corrupt b*tch in the MIRAGE comics (to the point her future is pretty sad and grim for, seemingly, the SAKE of being sad and grim)

[Candy Kappa]

Really? I appreciated the complexity of the character as seen in the 2003 cartoon and well, I thought that was how she was depicted in the Mirage Comics. How is she different in the Mirage Comics or at least more towards you preference?

What Andrew and Zarius wrote

4Kids Karai is a very flat character, and she feels less insignificant as Shredder's adoptive daughter.

The flaky attitude with honor and loyalty was poorly handled and felt more like lazy writing then actual character interaction.

[MikeandRaph87]

What Andrew and Zarius wrote

4Kids Karai is a very flat character, and she feels less insignificant as Shredder's adoptive daughter.

The flaky attitude with honor and loyalty was poorly handled and felt more like lazy writing then actual character interaction.

Wow,I see it the opposite. To Me it had heavy characterization for a cartoon and the personal conflict one felt dealing with honor. It seemed to be handled well to me. Honor the father figure that gave her everything even if she knows its wrong or do the right thing her heart is tellig her. I thought she was complex and that is why I liked the cartoon atleast the 2003 cartoon which is what made me aware of her beyond just knowing of her. Those that know of her as something other than Shredder's daughter I understand the idea of forcing a connection that is felt is uneeded and therfore in your eyes may not work. In this case I think it does but its the eye of the beholder and perhaps part of how intrdouced or when seen how works the best.

[Andrew NDB]

To look at it another way:

In Mirage she's a strong independant woman who is in the shadow of no man, who leads the entire Foot Clan from the Japan HQ. She has a large character arc. No relation to Shredder.

In 4Kids she's the "daughter" of Shredder and constantly in his shadow, serving only his needs and interests. She has no character arc to speak of... just random nonsense-of-the-week.

[marcelangelo]

I on the very same page as mikeandraph87....I only ever knew about her role in the orginal comics from the story synopsis of comics I could never read(back then I had no computer and internet was not there)...
I can see andrews position here though I have always seen it much more in tune wirh the japanese traditions in samurai culture..the father being her lord sort of...and with a DAUGHTER following the father even more unusual than if it was a son this was a really interesting twist for the two of them...and feeling obligated to act in the interest of someone you know(but maybe don't want to open your eyes to the fact) is doing not the right thing...the thing that may felt 'lazy' about it at times to me was her dialogue...maybe that is what ruines the image of this different version of the character?
speaking of lazy:as much as I enjoyed master splinter's voice in that cartoon you cannot ignore the fact that the voice actor was constantly delivering his lines in the exact same rythm...that could get silly sometimes for me at least...

[Candy Kappa]

To look at it another way:

In Mirage she's a strong independant woman who is in the shadow of no man, who leads the entire Foot Clan from the Japan HQ. She has a large character arc. No relation to Shredder.

In 4Kids she's the "daughter" of Shredder and constantly in his shadow, serving only his needs and interests. She has no character arc to speak of... just random nonsense-of-the-week.

you wrote it a lot better. 4Kids made a strong independent female character into something unrecognizable and just flat

[DarkLightDragon]

I can see Karai coming to the comic, but not for a while since it seems too soon to introduce her when we're possibly going to see more of the conflict between the Shredder and Kraang soon.


As for her 4kids incarnation, the only thing that really irked me about her was her whole 'revenge' thing in Season 4.

I mean, yes Karai, I get you being honor-bond by him because he gave you more of purpose in life, but the guy made no hesitation when he was about to kill you for stopping him from killing the Turtles back in 'Exodus Part 2.' Do you really want to avenge someone like that, coupled with the fact that you heard with your very own ears of the crimes he commited across the universe and really believe the Utroms are a bunch of heartless hunters when you've seen more of what you're master is capable of?

[Andrew NDB]

And let's not even bring up the movie-verse Karai...

... who can apparently get knocked out by April O'Neil.

[marcelangelo]

I quote the bible:..and he saw that it sucked.

[Killer Moth]

Plus, as Dr.Spengler noted in TMNT Entity, Mirage Karai was the direct opposite of Mirage Shredder, in terms of personality and tactics. As such, I would want only that version in IDW. It probably won't happen, but it would be nice to have her be introduced and interact with Saki, only for a little while, before he goes down or gets killed off. I often wondered what a conversation between the two would be like.

4Kids Karai started fine, yet the writers wanted to have their cake and eat it, too -- she's honorable, but when Ch'rell basically said in "Rogue in the House," 'screw your honor and your previous deal with the Turtles, your honor is supposed to serve me and that's it.' Despite all that, she still worked for him, what kind of weird motivation is this for a competent ninja? Ch'rell may be a competent killer, but he isn't going to change. Unless she was that naive, thinking "I could change him." Which is, frankly, kind of pitiful, coming from her, although, some characters could pull off that duality in a subtly abusive relationship. Nonetheless, after so many seasons of that dynamic, I'm not ready for the redux in IDW, or not for a while, anyway.

[Lampy]

Of course!!!

[Coola Yagami]

No. Karai should be her own woman. Her own rank. Leader of the Japan set of the Foot. She should come in to clean house after Shredder (I would assume) has failed to defeat his enemies.

Anything else just doesn't work. She was screwed up in 2K3 cause she was reduced to being Shredder's lackey. And even when she was alone, she was still crying for daddy. No. Hell no. Do her right or don't do her at all.

[Candy Kappa]

she cpuld also be the current head of the foot, being pressed by the newly risen Shredder, could be a nice explanation to the Foot splintering without killing Saki

[The Big Bad]

I guess you could call the 4Kids Karai weak--she's compromised, short-sighted, dishonest, nowhere near as honorable as she thinks she is, and in general a deeply broken person, in the sense that she's destined for unhappiness. None of this makes her inherently less worthwhile as a character, I feel--in fact, they make her one of my favorite characters in Western Animation, which is a sharp contrast to her original incarnation, which to me, never really stopped being a cipher. Her appearance in Tales of the TMNT 40 (I think? The one with Raph in the future and the baby?) is as close as she comes to having a definitive story, and she's barely in it.

That said, I'm not sure which, if any, of cartoon Karai's distinctive elements could be brought over to other incarnation, and I'm reluctant to follow that path. I guess some interesting stuff can be done by making her the Azula's to Shredder's Ozai (whereas the 4Kids version was very definitively Zuko), but other than that, I'm not exactly brimming with ideas about that particular approach.




4Kids Karai started fine, yet the writers wanted to have their cake and eat it, too -- she's honorable, but when Ch'rell basically said in "Rogue in the House," 'screw your honor and your previous deal with the Turtles, your honor is supposed to serve me and that's it.' Despite all that, she still worked for him, what kind of weird motivation is this for a competent ninja? Ch'rell may be a competent killer, but he isn't going to change. Unless she was that naive, thinking "I could change him." Which is, frankly, kind of pitiful, coming from her, although, some characters could pull off that duality in a subtly abusive relationship. Nonetheless, after so many seasons of that dynamic, I'm not ready for the redux in IDW, or not for a while, anyway.

Not change him, I think--as I understand it her aim was to stall until the point where he wasn't a factor (i.e.: when he was in space) and she was granted the freedom to run the Foot her own way: she'd have the turtles' friendship without sacrificing her father's approval. This is partly why I feel she began to hate the turtles after his exile--she would have basically succeeded* if things hadn't gone to hell.


* At least, until she up and realized that the turtles really weren't going to be on board with the idea of chilling while the Shredder was out there being all genocidal. Then again, she never really understood the turtles.

[Zany Orange Dude]

she cpuld also be the current head of the foot, being pressed by the newly risen Shredder, could be a nice explanation to the Foot splintering without killing Saki

I like that idea! It is different and interesting!:tsmile:

[TurtleMaster4]

I think a good way to put Karai in would be like this:

Karai is shredders daughter, whom shredders loves threw what ever path she take. She honors her father and fights the turtles, but dose not kill them. shredder sees this. but with him being a loving father and all, tells her to chose her own path, while he would kill any one else who dose this. So she continues to fight along side her father, but is neither bad or good. Eventually she sees her father die and trys to avenge him, in doing so she becomes the shredder and almost kills leo. But some thing about the turtles family keeps her from killing them. she then goes back to being Karai and not the shredder. soon the shredder comes back some how and he is fine with what she has chosen. he dosn't agree with her, but he accepts it (a cool way for shredder to come back would be threw chrell who is just an utrom then, who would turn him half into a robot or some thing, to keep him alive, mainly his arms and legs though.) eventually shredder dies (but not for a while) and Karai finally fully walks the good path and makes the foot clan a peace full clan (don't ask me how) It works for a while but then chrell decides to become the new shredder and kills her, most of the good clan escapes, and the new evil clan arises once again

( also i think karia should have a love interest, who happens to be shredder's second in command. and their child should see chrell kill karai. it would be interesting to see what her kid would do.)

this is just a though, tell me how it sounds, do you like it, hate it, fell like throwing me into the garbage, or what?

[Candy Kappa]

I think a good way to put Karai in would be like this:

Karai is shredders daughter, whom shredders loves threw what ever path she take. She honors her father and fights the turtles, but dose not kill them. shredder sees this. but with him being a loving father and all, tells her to chose her own path, while he would kill any one else who dose this. So she continues to fight along side her father, but is neither bad or good. Eventually she sees her father die and trys to avenge him, in doing so she becomes the shredder and almost kills leo. But some thing about the turtles family keeps her from killing them. she then goes back to being Karai and not the shredder. soon the shredder comes back some how and he is fine with what she has chosen. he dosn't agree with her, but he accepts it (a cool way for shredder to come back would be threw chrell who is just an utrom then, who would turn him half into a robot or some thing, to keep him alive, mainly his arms and legs though.) eventually shredder dies (but not for a while) and Karai finally fully walks the good path and makes the foot clan a peace full clan (don't ask me how) It works for a while but then chrell decides to become the new shredder and kills her, most of the good clan escapes, and the new evil clan arises once again

( also i think karia should have a love interest, who happens to be shredder's second in command. and their child should see chrell kill karai. it would be interesting to see what her kid would do.)

this is just a though, tell me how it sounds, do you like it, hate it, fell like throwing me into the garbage, or what?

What does this have to do with Karai and the possibility of her appearing in IDW, or even with what version IDW should be influenced by?

[TurtleMaster4]

What does this have to do with Karai and the possibility of her appearing in IDW, or even with what version IDW should be influenced by?

it doesn't really have to do with what version, it's just my idea on how she should be portrayed. but i guess you could just call it a elongigated (sorry if i spelled that wrong) plot.

[Candy Kappa]

yet you just fan-fic up the 4Kids version, there's no Ch'rell in IDW as far as we know

[TurtleMaster4]

yet you just fan-fic up the 4Kids version, there's no Ch'rell in IDW as far as we know

i guess i did just fan fic the 4 kids series up didn't I. and as for chrell, i know he isn't in it yet. like i said, i was just saying what i think would be cool for the comic, and wanting to know how you guys thought of it. and i'm kinda getting a bad vibe from you, so i'm guessing you don't realy like the idea do you. :trazz:


any ways, i'm no professional! :twink:

I guess the point i'm trying to make is, she would be good for it, if she is done right.

[ToTheNines]

The timing of this thread has officially freaked me out...

Alopex is Karai reincarnated from 500 years ago.

Butt head.

To look at it another way:

In Mirage she's a strong independant woman who is in the shadow of no man, who leads the entire Foot Clan from the Japan HQ. She has a large character arc. No relation to Shredder.

In 4Kids she's the "daughter" of Shredder and constantly in his shadow, serving only his needs and interests. She has no character arc to speak of... just random nonsense-of-the-week.

Well said.

I mean, yes Karai, I get you being honor-bond by him because he gave you more of purpose in life, but the guy made no hesitation when he was about to kill you for stopping him from killing the Turtles back in 'Exodus Part 2.' Do you really want to avenge someone like that, coupled with the fact that you heard with your very own ears of the crimes he commited across the universe and really believe the Utroms are a bunch of heartless hunters when you've seen more of what you're master is capable of?

I know. Stupid.

And then she goes and forgives them just as easily after she helps them fight the Tengu Shredder. I get that she wanted to help save the world from destruction... but how does this change the fact that the Turtles are the reason her father is frozen on some space rock?

Like you said, she had no reason to be so vengeful in the first place, but come on!

[CyberCubed]

Karai was psychotic in the 4kids series, its probably a mental disorder.

[Killer Moth]

Karai was psychotic in the 4kids series, its probably a mental disorder.

Flame War! Heh.

Actually, at worst, you can call her really misguided in her priorities or sense of self. But, no, 4Kids's Karai at her worst doesn't fit the textbook defintion of psychotic. If you applied that to Ch'rell, especially in Forever, then you're on better ground.

I'm fine with 4Kids Karai being used, as long as she isn't wishy-washy in her motivation. Because, Karai is better off as Lucy, not Charlie Brown.

[oldmanwinters]

Well...

I guess issue #9 answered at least one major question of this thread.

[oldmanwinters]

I don't remember if this was already published in TMNT #9, but Dan Duncan recently shared his concept sketches of Karai on his DevArt account:
http://dan-duncan.deviantart.com/art/Karai-design-299500866

He says he likes to refer to her as "Shredder's girlfriend." But when I inquired about he would simply describe her as "a relative." Interesting...

[CyberCubed]

Perhaps Shredder and Karai's relationship this time around is incestuous?

[TurtleTitan97]

I don't remember if this was already published in TMNT #9, but Dan Duncan recently shared his concept sketches of Karai on his DevArt account:
http://dan-duncan.deviantart.com/art/Karai-design-299500866

Sweet concept art!:tsmile:

[Candy Kappa]

the concept art would look nice, but. Those heels ruins it all. Hopefully they ain't a part of the finished designs

[Xav]

Perhaps Shredder and Karai's relationship this time around is incestuous? I don't think Nickelodeon would allow that.

[Killer Moth]

Not change him, I think--as I understand it her aim was to stall until the point where he wasn't a factor (i.e.: when he was in space) and she was granted the freedom to run the Foot her own way: she'd have the turtles' friendship without sacrificing her father's approval. This is partly why I feel she began to hate the turtles after his exile--she would have basically succeeded* if things hadn't gone to hell.

* At least, until she up and realized that the turtles really weren't going to be on board with the idea of chilling while the Shredder was out there being all genocidal. Then again, she never really understood the turtles.

Point well taken, and I never thought it as "having your cake and eat it, too." The rest is a matter of honor vs. logic. She started logical, like her Mirage counterpart, yet apparently became more and more bound to her honor. Vs. Leo, who always treaded that line as best he could. Maybe that was the real point -- to show Karai's descent of being truly bound to her own dogma (and to draw even further contrast from Leo)? Interesting irony from a Mirage character previously known for her pragmatism.

I guess? Other than Leo, you're right in that she never really understood the Turtles. Either that, or it proves her moral compass is off, compared to Hun or Shredder. They know they're evil or they do morally wrong things, and they're more or less fine with that arrangement.

Agreed about the heels. I like them, but they aren't proper for combat. Unless, they are heels of steel, of course.

And is the world ready for Shredder/Karai incest? Eh, beats Turtle incest.

[Toby Barrett]

Perhaps Shredder and Karai's relationship this time around is incestuous?

Stop being wierd Cyber.

[ToTheNines]

Perhaps Shredder and Karai's relationship this time around is incestuous?

I officially hate you again.

[Xav]

I thought Karai was into girls? Seriously why is there so much talk about Karai's sex life?

[ToTheNines]

It's been all cybercubed and his newfound perverted mindset.

[CyberCubed]

I love the way some people take some of my posts so seriously. I think its easy to tell when I am joking around.

[Toby Barrett]

It's not. It's really not. Because majority of your posts are ridiculous.

[CyberCubed]

Only on certain days. I do hope we don't go through the whole Leonardo/Karai song and dance again.

Let Karai stay a villain, don't make her want to change sides or trick the Turtles into helping her, we've seen that so many times.

[Drose18]

Only on certain days. I do hope we don't go through the whole Leonardo/Karai song and dance again.

Let Karai stay a villain, don't make her want to change sides or trick the Turtles into helping her, we've seen that so many times.

I could see her as an Alotta Fagina type character. :tgrin: