Tmnt #9 preview

[TomWaltz]

Here you go, folks -- a nice little preview of issue #9, in stores this week (where not affected by the Diamond shipping error -- those stores will have it next week). Thanks for your interest and support!

Tom W.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12154

[MikeandRaph87]

I do read more into things more than I should but the line," We won't be able to just WALTZ in there,Raph". stood out. I wonder if its a hidden reference to Tom Waltz.:tlol:

What is it about the villians that they always seem to steal the show? Its happening in IDW as well!

[Master Splinter]

Here you go, folks -- a nice little preview of issue #9, in stores this week (where not affected by the Diamond shipping error -- those stores will have it next week). Thanks for your interest and support!

Tom W.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12154

Yikers! Hope Splinter makes it out alive!

:D

-ms

[Samhain]

Thanks for the preview, Tom. Hob really is pretty darn menacing in the preview. Can't wait to read the full issue.




I do read more into things more than I should but the line," We won't be able to just WALTZ in there,Raph". stood out. I wonder if its a hidden reference to Tom Waltz.:tlol:

What is it about the villians that they always seem to steal the show? Its happening in IDW as well!

Villain are always more interesting.

[Jephael]

Aw man, I think I had a fan-gasm reading those pages! I especially liked it when April realized the TMNT are the same four little turtles she adored looking at in the lab!

[oldmanwinters]

Reading through those first few pages in the preview I couldn't help but think back to Tokka's first line of dialogue in The Secret of the Ooze:

April: "I named you."
Leo/Raph/Don/Mike: "Ma-ma!!!" (collectively)

[Xav]

Did you really have to make that a spoiler?

[strugler]

Can't say much about this issue until tomorrow where we publish our review.

However i can say this: Is this the best issue of the IDW already excellent TMNT comic series? maybe 8)

[Samhain]

Can't say much about this issue until tomorrow where we publish our review.

However i can say this: Is this the best issue of the IDW already excellent TMNT comic series? maybe 8)

''Your'' preview? Let me ask you, is it any different than the preview we have already been given?

[Coola Yagami]

I really.... have...to....stop...reading these previews... don't get me wrong. they're awesome and it pumps me up to buy the book.... the bad thing is, once I DO buy the book, I felt like I already read half of it, especially since some of the pages were basicly splash pages.

[ToTheNines]

Definitely not reading the preview to this one. The Leo issue just came out last week, I'm counting that as my preview to #9.

Did you really have to make that a spoiler?

Did you really have to make that a post?


''Your'' preview? Let me ask you, is it any different than the preview we have already been given?

He... said "review". Which I'm guessing is a review of the entire issue rather than an 8 page preview.

[Samhain]

He... said "review". Which I'm guessing is a review of the entire issue rather than an 8 page preview.

Doh, I don't know why when I read that I read ''preview''.:lol:

[nickn]

What's the deal with the shipping for #9? I'm waiting to find out if my LCS will have it in stock wed or not... man.

[CyberCubed]

Those splash pages that take up an entire page makes the issue go by too fast.

[Venom]

I'm liking this - the Turtles are finally beginning to feel "familiar" to me in these pages. Not that they weren't before, what I mean is their speech: Raph finally spoke like "Raph". He has been the one wild card that wasn't clicking for me yet, and for some reason it finally did.

With that said, I'm excited to find out what happens to Hob once Stockman, Krang, and the granite goons arrive.

Also, *please* let the Triceratons show up in the future! If Krang is a general, he'd have a helluva war to wage against the Trikes if he's the one responsible for the destruction of their homeworld.

[Zany Orange Dude]

Why do I torcher myself by reading the previews...really, why? I gotta know what happens to Splinter! Anticipation, how it loves to annoy my every waking moment until I get my hands on an issue!

[LeoNerdo]

Thanks Tom! Looking forward to the showdown between the turtles and Hob/Krang/Stone Soldiers.

[Xav]

Did you really have to make that a post? Yes, yes I did.

[Jester]

Good to see the story's picking up...now if only I had ANY disposable income...

[CyberCubed]

Dan Duncan's plastron still sticks out too much for my tastes, as if its something the turtles are wearing.

[Toby Barrett]

I don't even notice them.

I'm loving the way this issue looks! And it's nice that April is finally meeting the turtles!

[Andrew NDB]

Dan Duncan's plastron still sticks out too much for my tastes, as if its something the turtles are wearing.

That's been my complaint all along. It's like he's intentionally making the plastrons look like a prosthetic, or some kind of stuffed, stretchy "mat" they are all wearing over their chests.

[CyberCubed]

I'm not complaining really, I guess its those pointy edges that stand out.

Also as I've said before, I love April's design here. Its not a copy of any previous April yet it fits her perfectly. They basically nailed her and Casey perfectly so far. I love their characterisation, April feels like a very realistic character.

[Andrew NDB]

Agreed, but on the coloring side of things the overuse of yellow on her in, like, everything IDW is a bit on the funny side, though.

We get it. She used to wear a yellow jumpsuit on the old Fred Wolf spinoff show. Can we move on already, please?

[Dirty Blond]

Now, why would IDW want to switch colors all of a sudd --

:teek:

[Bobby Curnow]

Besides her first appearance when is she wearing yellow? She might be, but I can't remember it... don't think so.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess the only other thing that pops immediately into mind is the covers of the new trades, and the issue cover reprints.

[Toby Barrett]

Yeah. The only time April has worn yellow was in the first issue, and issue 5, when she was wearing a yellow coat. The rest of the time she's worn orange, pink, and white.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

Yikers! Hope Splinter makes it out alive!

:D

-ms

I will not let him escape from my lab! I will order Old Hob to kill him!:x:x:x I hate him! I want him dead DEAD! Which Splinter is you? Are you the 1987 the 2003 or the Mirrage Splinter? Because i am planing to kill you too!

[Lampy]

Oooooh conflict. let's watch.

I'm looking forward to this issue... especially after reading the Leonarrdo micro-series issue. I'm really liking the Hob character. He's freakin' crazy.
I agree about Duncan's plastrons. They kind of look cardboard actually, not connected to their shells whatsoever. It's kind of distracting how the Turtles' look changed drastically ever since the fourth issue. I really liked first designs for the Turtles in the first issues. They actually looked like turtles.

[strugler]

Our Advance review for issue 9 is up. I tried to be as much as spoiler free as i can, and i think i succeeded.

so i can say that you will not be spoiled if you read this review.

http://www.tmntlair.com/2012/04/24/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-9-advance-review/

[Xav]

Also as I've said before, I love April's design here. Its not a copy of any previous April yet it fits her perfectly. They basically nailed her and Casey perfectly so far. I love their characterisation, April feels like a very realistic character. I think she looks the closest to the 4Kids April.

Our Advance review for issue 9 is up. I tried to be as much as spoiler free as i can, and i think i succeeded.

so i can say that you will not be spoiled if you read this review.

http://www.tmntlair.com/2012/04/24/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-9-advance-review/
Nice review. How much you wanna bet those two "classic characters" are gonna be Bebop and Rocksteady?

[strugler]

How much you wanna bet those two "classic characters" are gonna be Bebop and Rocksteady?

I'll bet you $10,000, since i know you will lose :lol:

[Plasticplayhouse]

Yikers! Hope Splinter makes it out alive!

:D

-ms

if splinter dies, do you think he'll be reincarated?...oh wait... :P

[Xav]

I'll bet you $10,000, since i know you will lose :lol: Fair enough. But those were the two that popped in my head when I read that.

[CyberCubed]

Two classic characters appearing? Well don't we expect a full debut of Shredder in armor by the end of this issue?

[Coola Yagami]

How did you get it before anyone else did? Not even Wednesday yet????

[Toby Barrett]

The two characters are obviously Tokka and Rahzar. http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/barrett_toby/crazy.gif

[TurtleTitan97]

Cool preview. Can't wait to see what happens.

[Matches Malone]

Didn't Tom say a while back that we'll be seeing a big nod to 4Kids in #9? What 2 characters from 4Kids could he possibly be talking about?

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

Didn't Tom say a while back that we'll be seeing a big nod to 4Kids in #9? What 2 characters from 4Kids could he possibly be talking about?

if they are from 4kdis show then they will be Hun and Karai. Hun for sure if these 2 classics characters are from 4kids. but if they are from 1987 show then they will be bebop and rocksteady.

[MikeandRaph87]

if they are from 4kdis show then they will be Hun and Karai. Hun for sure if these 2 classics characters are from 4kids. but if they are from 1987 show then they will be bebop and rocksteady.

Hun was flat and boring. He was nothing moree than a punk who got lucky. The lowest evil in comics and cartoons.

Agent Bishop is possible and I think could fit into the Krang/Baxter Stockman plot. He did try to disect them and wanted Splinter's DNA. I would much rather have Bebop and Rocksteady than Hun. I guess we will all know in a few short hours!

[CyberCubed]

Hun was flat and boring. He was nothing moree than a punk who got lucky. The lowest evil in comics and cartoons.

Hun had plenty of character growth in Seasons 3-4, what are you talking about? The way Saki got pissed with Hun in Season 3 and kept trying to please him was hilarious, not to mention his backstory with Casey.

There's a reason Hun and Bishop are considered the only two standout villains from the 4kids series, other than their version of Shredder/Ch'rell.

I guess we will all know in a few short hours!

I predict Tatsu and Khan.

[Matches Malone]

if they are from 4kdis show then they will be Hun and Karai. Hun for sure if these 2 classics characters are from 4kids. but if they are from 1987 show then they will be bebop and rocksteady.

Hun is a possibility, but Karai is not really a 4Kids exclusive character, as she originally debuted in Mirage. Bishop would be the likely other 4Kids character. Does anyone else remember Tom saying this a while back? I wish I could remember where I saw that...

EDIT: Okay I found it. He didn't say it was in #9, just that it's coming soon. And he didn't even see characters, just a 4Kids element. Sheesh, my memory fades with age... I wonder if we didn't already see it in #8?! Probably not, but I do hope we'll know it when we see it! Here's the post I was talking about:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=918070#post918070

[MikeandRaph87]

Hun had plenty of character growth in Seasons 3-4, what are you talking about? The way Saki got pissed with Hun in Season 3 and kept trying to please him was hilarious, not to mention his backstory with Casey.

There's a reason Hun and Bishop are considered the only two standout villains from the 4kids series, other than their version of Shredder/Ch'rell.



I predict Tatsu and Khan.

Hun bores me,CC.I don't care to read/watch a thug fighting heroes.Maybe an opening sequence or something but that is it. I was not aware that only two villains stood out in 2003 cartoon.Who said Agent Bishop and Hun did? I love Bishop and dislike Hun.Karai and Agent Bishop standout to be as great and well characterized portrayals.Its all opinions.

As for Tatsu and Khan that would be out of leftfield.Besides Tatsu is one of a handful of characters that were notowned by Mirage thus IDW would have to ask the production company of the first three movies for permission first.Khan would be an obscure choice but I see why yyou signaled him out.Like I said let's wait and see.:tgrin:

[Xav]

How do you know Tatsu is not owned by Mirage? Plus they already had a mention of Jordon Perry and Tom said there would be movie elements, so Tatsu wouldn't be completely surprising.

[CyberCubed]

Hun bores me,CC.I don't care to read/watch a thug fighting heroes.Maybe an opening sequence or something but that is it. I was not aware that only two villains stood out in 2003 cartoon.Who said Agent Bishop and Hun did? I love Bishop and dislike Hun.Karai and Agent Bishop standout to be as great and well characterized portrayals.Its all opinions.

As for Tatsu and Khan that would be out of leftfield.Besides Tatsu is one of a handful of characters that were notowned by Mirage thus IDW would have to ask the production company of the first three movies for permission first.Khan would be an obscure choice but I see why yyou signaled him out.Like I said let's wait and see.:tgrin:

I don't know why you're calling him a random thug. Hun was the most developed villain of the show next to Baxter. He had a backstory, changes in motivations, memorable interactions with Baxter and Karai, and was basically Shredder's right hand man done right.

As much as I like Tatsu, as a character he's just a one-dimensional Japanese man. Nothing more.

[AcidBurn30]

hell yeah!!

[Samhain]

hell yeah!!

Way to contribute to the thread.

[Xav]

**** yeah!

[CyberCubed]

Every issue now seems to be a bit more exciting as the introductions are finally over and we're finally getting to the meat of the story.

[Samhain]

Every issue now seems to be a bit more exciting as the introductions are finally over and we're finally getting to the meat of the story.

Yeah, I just hope all the stuff that has been built up over the last year or so doesn't dissapoint.

[Redeemer]

I may just crap myself with the next couple of issues!!!!!!!!!!! bc of the cliff hanger from 9 and then 10 finally reveals the Shredder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Weapons@theready]

Wingnut and Screwloose are my guess, since we're just throwing stuff out there

[CyberCubed]

Nah, its the triumphant return of Muckman and Joe eyeball! :D

[Toby Barrett]

The most important thing to remember though, is that these two characters are obviously reincarnations of the two assassins who killed Tang Shen~ :D

[Andrew NDB]

Besides Tatsu is one of a handful of characters that were notowned by Mirage thus IDW would have to ask the production company of the first three movies for permission first.

I'm not sure about that, but that might be true. Can anyone at IDW say either way about this?

As much as I like Tatsu, as a character he's just a one-dimensional Japanese man. Nothing more.

I don't disagree that he's one-dimensional in the films... but there's a certain charm to him, and he's about the only villain in the series that manages to remain completely serious and I dunno, pretty much badass in all of his screentime. No camp, no goofiness... he's Shredder's ass-kicker. He's not like Bebop or Rocksteady where he was created to be goofy, campy and slapstick comic relief and to take and move them to another universe and suddenly try to portray them in a serious light would seem like it'd be betraying their core and genesis... Tatsu was made to be a no-nonsense ass-kicker right out of the gate.

[Toby Barrett]

I think one of the things about Tatsu I really liked was how his appearance was so decieving.

He's this short balding little man, yet he kicks so much ass.

[CyberCubed]

I don't disagree that he's one-dimensional in the films... but there's a certain charm to him, and he's about the only villain in the series that manages to remain completely serious and I dunno, pretty much badass in all of his screentime. No camp, no goofiness... he's Shredder's ass-kicker. He's not like Bebop or Rocksteady where he was created to be goofy, campy and slapstick comic relief and to take and move them to another universe and suddenly try to portray them in a serious light would seem like it'd be betraying their core and genesis... Tatsu was made to be a no-nonsense ass-kicker right out of the gate.

Well the charm comes from the actor himself. Its kinda amazing that with what limited role and speaking lines he had in the movies, that he managed to be such a likeable character.

If this was in comic/cartoon form, he'd just be "the Japanese right-hand man" of Shredder.

[Donnie]

Dan Duncan's plastron still sticks out too much for my tastes, as if its something the turtles are wearing.

After seeing Ross do Turtles, Duncan is a distant memory...

Until I read the preview, of course. But seriously, it's like going from ah-mazing to eh. I don't know.

But I can't wait for this!!!!

[ToTheNines]

A lot to like in this issue, I'm betting on a great arc here.

The whole April introduction scene was great. Not as classic as the scene from the first movie, but still funny and fit this story well. I also loved the nods to Don's and Leo's Micro-series books.

Raphael was on point this whole issue, I love his and Casey's interactions and teamwork. Also dug seeing Raph properly use his sai.

That giant mouser was FREAKY. I don't know what it was about it... but it creeped me out somehow. Cool stuff. More props to Duncan for his pencils on Old Hob, that's easily his best drawn character. Love it.

Also a few things to worry about though... I'm not going to freak out because they could possibly spin this very well, but my gut reaction to Karai being Shredder's Grand-daughter is not a good one. I'm having flashbacks to the 4kids version of her.

[Toby Barrett]

Sounds awesome! Who was the second classic character to appear?

[ToTheNines]

The Shredder himself.

[Toby Barrett]

Ah. Well. Duh, Toby.

That would should have been a given, I guess. XD

[TomWaltz]

A lot to like in this issue, I'm betting on a great arc here.

The whole April introduction scene was great. Not as classic as the scene from the first movie, but still funny and fit this story well. I also loved the nods to Don's and Leo's Micro-series books.

Raphael was on point this whole issue, I love his and Casey's interactions and teamwork. Also dug seeing Raph properly use his sai.

That giant mouser was FREAKY. I don't know what it was about it... but it creeped me out somehow. Cool stuff. More props to Duncan for his pencils on Old Hob, that's easily his best drawn character. Love it.

Also a few things to worry about though... I'm not going to freak out because they could possibly spin this very well, but my gut reaction to Karai being Shredder's Grand-daughter is not a good one. I'm having flashbacks to the 4kids version of her.

Thanks, ToTheNines!

And never fear, though there will naturally be some similarities (continue to spoiler)...

...I have big plans for Karai above and beyond the way she was presented in the 4kids version. She's definitely one of my favorite characters and I would never sell her short.

[ToTheNines]

...I have big plans for Karai above and beyond the way she was presented in the 4kids version. She's definitely one of my favorite characters and I would never sell her short.

You're welcome!

That's good to hear, she's one of mine as well. Can't wait for #10.

Oh, and I forgot to mention how much I loved seeing Donnie hack a M.O.U.S.E.R. to do some dirty work for them. I'm so glad someone finally did a little something with one of the bastards rather than have them wreck the lair then get trashed by the guys.

[CyberCubed]

Interesting to note that Karai is the first Mirage character outside the core cast, (Turtles/Splinter/April/Casey Shredder/Foot/Baxter), to appear.

Some probably more associate Karai with the 4kids series now due to how much she appeared in it, but the Mirage version of Karai doesn't get enough ackowledgement.

I hope we're not too far off to see the return of other classics like The Rat King and Leatherhead...maybe in one of the micros?

[Andrew NDB]

My review:
http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/?p=40590

[Andrew NDB]

That giant mouser was FREAKY.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. Reminded me of an ED-209...

http://mimg.ugo.com/200901/15254/ED-209.jpg

... and the MadCat from Battletech/Mechwarrior...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fi/7/73/Mad_Cat.jpg

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

A lot to like in this issue, I'm betting on a great arc here.

The whole April introduction scene was great. Not as classic as the scene from the first movie, but still funny and fit this story well. I also loved the nods to Don's and Leo's Micro-series books.

Raphael was on point this whole issue, I love his and Casey's interactions and teamwork. Also dug seeing Raph properly use his sai.

That giant mouser was FREAKY. I don't know what it was about it... but it creeped me out somehow. Cool stuff. More props to Duncan for his pencils on Old Hob, that's easily his best drawn character. Love it.

Also a few things to worry about though... I'm not going to freak out because they could possibly spin this very well, but my gut reaction to Karai being Shredder's Grand-daughter is not a good one. I'm having flashbacks to the 4kids version of her.


Is Shredder human? and how can karai be his grand daughter? Shreddder must be very old to have grand daughter. I will buy it tomorow!

[CyberCubed]

Is Shredder human? and how can karai be his grand daughter? Shreddder must be very old to have grand daughter. I will buy it tomorow!

You do realize its hinted that Shredder has lived for a long period of time, right?

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

You do realize its hinted that Shredder has lived for a long period of time, right?

Yes. then he might be an alien or a robot. Just like the 4kids shredder.

[ToTheNines]

Is Shredder human? and how can karai be his grand daughter? Shreddder must be very old to have grand daughter. I will buy it tomorow!

The current Shredder must be around 60 years old if Karai's his granddaughter.

If my theory holds up, the scar-faced ninja from previous issues will probably kill him and take over as Shredder though.

You do realize its hinted that Shredder has lived for a long period of time, right?

Not really. The original Oroku Saki was alive around 600 years ago.

So unless this guy is like Ra's Al Ghul then he hasn't been alive for the "long period of time" you're referring to.

[Matches Malone]

This was definitely one of the best single issues of the ongoing so far. It had its own compelling self-contained story (breaking into StockGen) while still contributing to the main storyline. Also, Duncan's art was on point on this one. I realized that I love his turtles when they are angry or grimacing, but they look kind of goofy when they are standing around talking. Ah well, that's probably better than the other way around. As someone else mentioned, characterizations were spot-on all around, including Raphael, who has been seemingly a little too docile in this series so far. Happy to see things are really coming together. I think these TMNT comics are going to read really great once all the trades are out.

Overall, this issue was great on all points. A giant mouser is what I've been wishing for ever since they were introduced and I was happy to see that finally fulfilled! A lot of fast paced action and things are really starting to pick up! Couldn't have come at a better time when my enthusiasm for the ongoing was starting to wane a bit. I also loved seeing them break into StockGen. It brought back flashes of Vol 1 #4 breaking into T.C.R.I., one of my favorite Mirage issues! Lastly, we finally get to see Karai and the Shredder! I guess he has a cape after all! I could do without it, but perhaps he won't always have it on. Excited for what comes next, especially those Micro-Series!

[Mutant_Hero_Turtle95]

I checked Hastings today after school and they dident have it.:tsad:

[Samhain]

I'll be getting this issue next week, sadly.

[Mutant_Hero_Turtle95]

Was anybody lucky to find #9 at there comic shops today? On ninja pizza it said that some Wont find it today.

[Donnie]

Was anybody lucky to find #9 at there comic shops today? On ninja pizza it said that some Wont find it today.

My LCS just got the Retail Incentive in but not the regular cover, go figure, haha! So I picked up the variant...I was gonna anyway.

Yeah this issue was awesome, The Turtles killed a handful of goons (or should I say Raph, Leo, and Casey), so this should shut up the "they can't kill!" camp.

Although I gotta say that after Leo's beating in his micro, he seems already 100% better besides some scratches. I mean, he was punched right in the neck and fell into a dumpster from at least an 18 ft. building. That sh*t HURTS. I'd imagine him out for at least a night. But whateva, not really a compliant. Awesome issue!

As for Karai, the 4Kids was my favorite version of her anyway so if she was most like that version I'd be cool with that.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah this issue was awesome, The Turtles killed a handful of goons (or should I say Raph, Leo, and Casey), so this should shut up the "they can't kill!" camp.

You're dreaming. Nobody was killed (or even remotely close to it) in the entire issue.

[Donnie]

You're dreaming. Nobody was killed (or even remotely close to it) in the entire issue.

Really? Raph knocks a guy straight in the head with his sai man. The guy's skull was probably punctured. A shot to the head like that can kill. And didn't he also stab a dude? And it looked like Leo snapped that guy's neck, but maybe he just put him in a sleeper.

One negative comment if I may, after Ross Campbell's art in Leo, Duncan falls totally short in my opinion...sorry guys.

[Andrew NDB]

Really? Raph knocks a guy straight in the head with his sai man. The guy's skull was probably punctured. A shot to the head like that can kill.

:roll:

And didn't he also stab a dude?

In the side. And the same dude is seen just fine a few panels later.

And it looked like Leo snapped that guy's neck, but maybe he just put him in a sleeper.

No reason to conclude there was any neck-snapping. No sound effect and no motion.

[Donnie]

:roll:



Fair points about the other ones, but can you really say that couldn't kill somebody?

[Redeemer]

Really enjoyed this issue, thought it was great overal.

I feel bad that stockman failed again.....Bc now he will likely be killed by Krang now sense he did fail again......Hopefully he will be kept alive, I dont want stockman to be killed quite so quickly. I do love how Casey and Raph were pretending to be the "Bash Brothers" :lol: I do like the actual stealth move, ex. Leo choke out. Really great issue. But Shredder really has me puzzled now though :ohwell: Hopefully we will find out soon :lol:

[CyberCubed]

I very much doubt they're going to kill off Baxter. The temptation to mutate him or change him into a cyborg is too great, Tom Waltz is probably itching at the chance.

[MikeandRaph87]

Really? Raph knocks a guy straight in the head with his sai man. The guy's skull was probably punctured. A shot to the head like that can kill. And didn't he also stab a dude? And it looked like Leo snapped that guy's neck, but maybe he just put him in a sleeper.

One negative comment if I may, after Ross Campbell's art in Leo, Duncan falls totally short in my opinion...sorry guys.

I am GLAD they did not! The turtles are NOT murders! If they are I would have to reconsider pulling this. I can take a lot but that is my number one thing! Its not 1984 anymore! Its a great plot to explore why they should not as they learn how to be ninjas and heroes at the same time.

Karai's not Shredder's step-daughter but she is his gradndaughter. Shredder's age is put into question there but are they really blood related? She could just consider him family. With all the twist and turns one never knows.

I was thinking that Krang and Baxter's story was going to end with this issue and the turtles move on to fight Shredder next but the plot gets more interwined! Well done there! Something tells me that Baxter Stockman's greed is the key to all of this!

Oh, and Cybervuded,I am itching at the chance to leave him 100% intacted human. That would actually be a twist that not many would expect!

[Samhain]

I am GLAD they did not! The turtles are NOT murders! If they are I would have to reconsider pulling this. I can take a lot but that is my number one thing! Its not 1984 anymore! Its a great plot to explore why they should not as they learn how to be ninjas and heroes at the same time.

I was thinking that Krang and Baxter's story was going to end with this issue and the turtles move on to fight Shredder next but the plot gets more interwined! Well done there! Something tells me that Baxter Stockman's greed is the key to all of this!

Oh, and Cybervuded,I am itching at the chance to leave him 100% intacted human. That would actually be a twist that not many would expect!

Tell me, if the Shredder attacks the turtles, and the turtles end up killing him, will you drop the book?

[MikeandRaph87]

Tell me, if the Shredder attacks the turtles, and the turtles end up killing him, will you drop the book?

They would not kill everyone's favorite villain. In '84 it was meant to be a oneshot. These days he is the best and greatest foe! There is more than those who perfer the black and white comics reading this comic and there is a such thing as cross over appeal. The killing policy is the only thing I am concerned about at this point. Aside from that concern the interwoven plots and keeping up the guessing is a triple. Will it be a home run? So far they are crossing third and heading home crafting the turtles I enjoy to watch and read.

[Samhain]

They would not kill everyone's favorite villain. In '84 it was meant to be a oneshot. These days he is the best and greatest foe! There is more than those who perfer the black and white comics reading this comic and there is a such thing as cross over appeal. The killing policy is the only thing I am concerned about at this point. Aside from that concern the interwoven plots and keeping up the guessing is a triple. Will it be a home run? So far they are crossing third and heading home crafting the turtles I enjoy to watch and read.

That has nothing to do with what I asked. The turtles mother was killed, then they were killed. All beheaded. Do you really think Splinter is gonna let that slide? I don't think so. Do you think Saki will say, ''My bad, man'', and then all is forgiven. Eventually there will need to be an END to a story arc.

What do you think, the bad guys will just give up and go home, after apologizing for trying to kill the turtles, Splinter and their friends? Gimme a break. In the IDW universe, Splinter has a ''no kill policy''. But I believe that there is a reason for that, and Bobby said that policy will be explored for the next years or so. That tells me the turtles will eventually kill, will they regret it? Maybe. But they will. Trust me on that.

[Andrew NDB]

I am GLAD they did not! The turtles are NOT murders!

If you mean to say, "The turtles are NOT murderers!" then you're right. They're not. Even in the Mirage material. If they're attacked, they fight back... and they're not going to pull punches when worrying about "Oh sh**, how can I effectively knock out these 10 Foot Soldiers trying to kill me without dispatching them with these twin swords in my hands or my shuriken?" -- that kind of mentality would probably get them killed. Or just be stupid. Likely, both. And weren't you saying in another thread you have no problem with the Turtles killing in battle, just when it's "cold blooded murder" like when the Turtles "made the Shredder commit seppuku" (which, again, didn't happen)?

That has nothing to do with what I asked. The turtles mother was killed, then they were killed. All beheaded. Do you really think Splinter is gonna let that slide? I don't think so. Do you think Saki will say, ''My bad, man'', and then all is forgiven. Eventually there will need to be an END to a story arc.

What do you think, the bad guys will just give up and go home, after apologizing for trying to kill the turtles, Splinter and their friends? Gimme a break. In the IDW universe, Splinter has a ''no kill policy''. But I believe that there is a reason for that, and Bobby said that policy will be explored for the next years or so. That tells me the turtles will eventually kill, will they regret it? Maybe. But they will. Trust me on that.

I suspect you're dead-on about that. Sooner or later the Turtles will have a big "killing" moment and there will be a big fallout from it.

Which, while it could make for a compelling story (and I'm certain would under the pen of Tom), on the surface it makes me shake my head right away. The idea of actual ninjas (or specifically ninjas, as readers, we're supposed to buy and accept as actual ninjas) sitting down and counseling one another on, "Now, now, now, let's talk about this, guys. Was it really necessary to kill that guy that was trying to kill us tooth and nail?" seems like a joke. Or some kind of comedy skit.

Of course, about the actual issue at hand, I have no quibble with the Turtles not killing the security guards. These aren't trained killers out to take out the guys... they're just security guards trying to earn a paycheck. That guy that was put in the sleeper hold probably had 3 kids at home and a wife counting on his paycheck from StockGen for all we know. Then here come all these assh***s breaking into the place waving weapons around and freaking them out with a reprogrammed MOUSER... no, the Turtles shouldn't really have any qualms about killing if the situation calls for it and it's do-or-die (like when fighting other ninja) but yeah, maybe the security guards warranted that extra bit of care we saw in the issue.

[DrSpengler]

Here's my review of TMNT #9 at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/04/publication-date-april-25-2012story.html)

I quite enjoyed the issue!

I take the piss out of it in the review a little, I admit, but I dug quite a bit of what was going on. I'd like to have seen more of Splinter trying to reason with Hob as he did when the series started, as that just seemed more in Splinter's nature than to go on about how his kids were on their way to save his butt any minute now. Perhaps I've got my head stuck in "TMNT the Movie" when he showed understanding to Danny while chained in the warehouse. I dunno.

This April's really growing on me and she's really reaching a good balance. She can handle herself, but she isn't quite ready to join the fight just yet. I like that a lot better than just making her a super awesome ninja out of the blue because GIRL POWER! Let her work her way to that level.

And Shredder! Finally! Plus special bonus character Karai!

[Andrew NDB]

This April's really growing on me and she's really reaching a good balance. She can handle herself, but she isn't quite ready to join the fight just yet. I like that a lot better than just making her a super awesome ninja out of the blue because GIRL POWER! Let her work her way to that level.

I don't know that she ever necessarily needs to get to that level. It's enough that she gets to a point where she can handle herself in a battle with thugs.

Just, please, never a scenario where she's able to knock down Karai like in Turtles Part 4.

[Dirty Blond]

Good to see Karai. Was genuinely surprised and I hope she gets the Micro treatment.

[Toby Barrett]

I guess I need to watch it again sometime, I don't remember her knocking out Karai at any point...

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I don't necessarily want to see April be Karai's equal in martial arts, but I could see her being able to catch Karai off guard with a lucky shot.

I just read both Leonardo and issue 9 and enjoyed both, maybe Leonardo slightly more. Issue 9 still felt like a setup to something bigger, while Leonardo chasing the foot ninja was very exciting.

I really don't care whether or not the TMNT killed anyone this issue. Raphael stabbing one of the guards shows that either way, they aren't messing around. I could see them avoiding killing depending on who they are fighting. When it comes to the foot ninja, maybe all bets will be off.

[DrSpengler]

I guess I need to watch it again sometime, I don't remember her knocking out Karai at any point...

It was during the big brawl with the Foot.

It was a small scene and easy to miss, but basically it's as Andrew describes: April kicks Karai and knocks her to the ground.


Admittedly, I don't necessarily want to see April reach *that* kind of level, either. A few self defense classes shouldn't be equivacal to a lifetime of training and discipline in the martial arts.

[Matches Malone]

Which, while it could make for a compelling story (and I'm certain would under the pen of Tom), on the surface it makes me shake my head right away. The idea of actual ninjas (or specifically ninjas, as readers, we're supposed to buy and accept as actual ninjas) sitting down and counseling one another on, "Now, now, now, let's talk about this, guys. Was it really necessary to kill that guy that was trying to kill us tooth and nail?" seems like a joke. Or some kind of comedy skit.

While definitely not the same situation exactly (in Mirage, the turtles sought Shredder out), the scene in City At War where they are sitting around in the water tower lamenting over their involvement in the death of Oroku Saki and the subsequent chaos that followed is easily one of my favorite moments in all of turtle history. It made them very human to feel so directionless and uncertain about the rightness of their actions. Again, not the same scenario (or even the same universe!) but I can see some parallells. If IDW can pull off any character moments like that, I'm all for it!

[Ninjinister]

Giant Mouser and Karai as a Shredder relative. There's your 2003 'toon references, folks.

[Xav]

Giant Mousers were also in the video games.

[Ninjinister]

Giant Mousers were also in the video games.

The 2003 video games, yes.

[Candy Kappa]

and the Ultra game

[Xav]

and Manhattan Project. Though the name Giant Mouser was only used for the boss in the 2003 games.

[Ninjinister]

and Manhattan Project. Though the name Giant Mouser was only used for the boss in the 2003 games.

Yeah Giant Mouser, Mother Mouser, and Big Mouser (first NES game) are three different things. Saying they aren't would be like saying Mechaturtle, Metalhead, and Turtlebot are all the saem.

[ToTheNines]

IGN review: http://comics.ign.com/articles/122/1223809p1.html

They gave it a 7.

[MikeandRaph87]

Sham,I will give you this. While I am against them killing outside the black and white comics it would make a good character piece if Raphael killed and learned from his mistake. I am not crazy over the whole storyline that Casey Jones underwent in Mirage leading to Shadow to balance him however the plot point might work better for Raphael.

That is a fair assessment but I would go with 8/10. #10 is bound to have hit a fever pitch with all three groups meeting!:D8)

The giant mouser was a nice bonus but they made quick work of it or rather Raphael and Casey did!:tsmile:

Possible spoilers...............

S
K
I
P

T
H
I
S

T
H
O
U
G
H
T

I am interested in how Karai is Saki's granddaughter. Biological? Then who are her parents? Is Shredder old enough to be a grandfather and has he lived since Fuedal Japan?

[Toby Barrett]

I still believe this Shredder is the same Oroku Saki. Those dead eyes just scream, "I should have died six hundred years ago!"

[ToTheNines]

Those eyes that look exactly like all the other Foot ninja's eyes?

[Toby Barrett]

They're all zombies. =p

[Andrew NDB]

While definitely not the same situation exactly (in Mirage, the turtles sought Shredder out), the scene in City At War where they are sitting around in the water tower lamenting over their involvement in the death of Oroku Saki and the subsequent chaos that followed is easily one of my favorite moments in all of turtle history. It made them very human to feel so directionless and uncertain about the rightness of their actions. Again, not the same scenario (or even the same universe!) but I can see some parallells. If IDW can pull off any character moments like that, I'm all for it!

Yeah, that's not even remotely what I'm talking about, but yes, that ranks among the best moments in the comics. The sort of reevaluating of their life's mission, their lack of one in the present, and their even blaming Splinter somewhat.

[Andrew NDB]

I am interested in how Karai is Saki's granddaughter. Biological? Then who are her parents? Is Shredder old enough to be a grandfather and has he lived since Fuedal Japan?

My guess is that he isn't her biological grandfather, but just sort of "gramps" in a old man father figure sort of way.

You know, too old to call "Father" even in a surrogate sense, so she calls him "Grandfather." Or maybe she genuinely believes he's her grandfather and just "doesn't know" yet.

[TomWaltz]

Giant Mouser and Karai as a Shredder relative. There's your 2003 'toon references, folks.

Keep reading...

:tgrin:

[DarkLightDragon]

Keep reading...

:tgrin:


You can be such a troll sometimes, Tom.:lol:

[MikeandRaph87]

Techically the giant mouser is not a 2003 cartoon refernece since it happened in the games first.:twink:

As for IDW's Shredder being Ra's al Ghul's age range(700) he could have a significant portion of the population related to him. I remember another immortal Vandal Savage saying he is a direct realtive of about 10% of the population. Just no utrom Shredder PLEASE! That was my biggest complaint with the 203 cartoon.

Its fun seeing all the references. Hope to see more 1987 cartoon references soon.:tsmile:

[The Big Bad]

Andrew NDB, on his review:This is definitely the 4Kids version of Karai we’re looking at here, very much in the shadow of the Shredder (here, her “grandfather” and in 4Kids her adopted father figure) and not the independent leader of the entire Foot Clan we saw in the source material who would have been Saki’s (unrelated) superior… but I do have every faith that the IDW team can make it work in their universe.

It may be that I'm parsing the sentence in a way different from the manner you intended for it to come across, but I'm not sure how this is a supportable assertion, given available evidence. Being "independent" and having an established relationship with a more prominent or higher ranking character are not mutually exclusive, and being a subordinate doesn't necessarily mean being in somebody's shadow. Otherwise the inescapable conclusion is that the turtles themselves can never be independent characters or leave Splinter's shadow, which I don't think you believe is the case (correct me if I'm wrong, though).

In another note, I haven't read the issue and won't until the trade comes out, but I have to say that while I really like Karai and Shredder's outfits from an aesthetic standpoint, I sorta kinda wishthey felt more practical. As is, I'm not sure what purpose Karai's sarashi/midriff wrapping serves, and Shredder's cape makes me think that The Incredibles' Edna Mode would not approve--although I guess he could remove it before actual combat.

[Samhain]

Sham,I will give you this.

Is my name really that hard for people to type out? This is like the 100th time I've seen this.:ohwell:

[Dirty Blond]

You can be such a troll sometimes, Tom.:lol:

http://images.puahate.com/the-art-of-trolling.jpg

[Candy Kappa]

It would be interesting to see if IDW brings Karai's daughter in this version. One of the interesting aspects of karai for me, was that she lost someone dear, her own child when trying to restore order back in the NY Foot

[CyberCubed]

It would be interesting to see if IDW brings Karai's daughter in this version. One of the interesting aspects of karai for me, was that she lost someone dear, her own child when trying to restore order back in the NY Foot

Karai having a 17 year old daughter makes her way too old. I always wished the woman was Karai's lover instead, it would have made a lot more sense.

[Candy Kappa]

Karai having a 17 year old daughter makes her way too old. I always wished the woman was Karai's lover instead, it would have made a lot more sense.

The foot is know for magic, and she could have been in her late thirties early forties

But a female lover would be an very interesting idea with Karai. And we'd probably not see Duncan art imitators in Deviant art making Tango picture of Leo and Karai :lol:

[ToTheNines]

Karai having a 17 year old daughter makes her way too old. I always wished the woman was Karai's lover instead, it would have made a lot more sense.

Jesus... :roll:

The girl wasn't that old. If she was, say 16, Karai could have been in her mid-30's in CaW. Which works fine.

Admittedly, that makes her really old in Volume 4 and some of the Tales she's in, but who cares?

[Ninjinister]

Techically the giant mouser is not a 2003 cartoon refernece since it happened in the games first.:twink:


But it was a game based on the 2003 series. Close enough!

[Donnie]

I much prefer Karai a younger age, like 4Kids...I always figured she was in her 20s. Female lover would be interesting haha

[CyberCubed]

Jesus... :roll:

The girl wasn't that old. If she was, say 16, Karai could have been in her mid-30's in CaW. Which works fine.

Admittedly, that makes her really old in Volume 4 and some of the Tales she's in, but who cares?

But still it was awkward. Probably because they likely had no plans to bring Karai back after Vol. 1.

Karai having a fully grown daughter made me wonder if we'd ever see the father. If Karai's lover were killed it makes her grief different than losing a child and being a lesbian doesn't seem too far off for her personality.

[ToTheNines]

But still it was awkward. Probably because they likely had no plans to bring Karai back after Vol. 1.

Karai having a fully grown daughter made me wonder if we'd ever see the father. If Karai's lover were killed it makes her grief different than losing a child and being a lesbian doesn't seem too far off for her personality.

Excellent point cybercubed, any woman who isn't a waitress, secretary or house wife is surely a lesbian...

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Jesus... :roll:

The girl wasn't that old. If she was, say 16, Karai could have been in her mid-30's in CaW. Which works fine.

Admittedly, that makes her really old in Volume 4 and some of the Tales she's in, but who cares?

I find it's best not to dwell on comic book character's ages for too long.

Trying to think about how old Bruce Wayne is supposed to be, given all the stuff he's done as Batman, makes my brain want to explode.

[Candy Kappa]

How old is Damian, 4? :P

[CyberCubed]

That's what also doesn't make sense. How did 4 Robin's age from childhood/teens to adults while Bruce looks like he only aged like 5 years?

[Candy Kappa]

http://i.qkme.me/36kai2.jpg

[Jester]

That's what also doesn't make sense. How did 4 Robin's age from childhood/teens to adults while Bruce looks like he only aged like 5 years?
Maybe Bruce has been secretly hitting up the Lazarus Pits....

[Candy Kappa]

probably not canon anymore, but I think there is/was an actual thing that time works differently in the DCU

[DrSpengler]

probably not canon anymore, but I think there is/was an actual thing that time works differently in the DCU

Hyper Time!

And don't ask me how it works because I don't know!

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

That's what also doesn't make sense. How did 4 Robin's age from childhood/teens to adults while Bruce looks like he only aged like 5 years?

See, that's what I'm talking about! Stop now before everyone goes crazy trying to figure it out.:lol:

Same goes with Marvel, though. Considering all that's happened to Spider-Man and the X-Men, they should all be a bit older than portrayed.

[Killer Moth]

(Wow, we're really getting off-topic, aren't we? Oh, well.)

Nothing much I can add, other than an observation: as per the destruction of Casey's bat, is this the start of a future running gag, vis-a-vis, 87's Don's "That was my favorite bo"? Not complaining, for I actually found it amusing.

As for IDW Karai being an eventual carbon copy of the 2003 version, we'll see how it goes, first. I have no qualms with such characterization, providing Earth logic will eventually prevail over her blood ties to the Shredder and avoid the wish-washy back-and-forth, if possible. Admittedly, I certainly was surprised in seeing her so early in the narrative, but, again, we'll see where it goes.

As for her daughter killed in 'City At War,' Karai's age issues aside, I always believed the daughter being killed was merely a plot device to motivate or compel the Turtles to side with Karai. Which, frankly, was rather pointless, as the Turtles likely would have teamed up with her, anyway.

And is the daughter ever mentioned in later Mirage issues? You guys would know, so I might as well ask. Off I go to read the TMNT Entity review.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

i read it today too. Finaly we saw the Shredder! Cant wait till the next issue where the turtles will fight him!!

[TurtleMaster4]

wait... i didn't pick up the comic yet.......... karai? i hope she is better than the 4kids show if she is shredder's' daughter, and i would love to see shredder honor her decisions, what ever it it. but enough of my fan idea...... PLEASE TELL MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


just read the thread, so she is his grand daughter, kinda interesting, i hope she is treated well.

[TurtleMaster4]

I much prefer Karai a younger age, like 4Kids...I always figured she was in her 20s. Female lover would be interesting haha

Interesting.. yes would i like it NOO! believe me if karai likes another girl (which is just wrong) she will be the worst version of her ever! please, idw, don't listen to these people giving horrid ideas.

PS sorry about the fan rage

[Candy Kappa]

Interesting.. yes would i like it NOO! believe me if karai likes another girl (which is just wrong) she will be the worst version of her ever! please, idw, don't listen to these people giving horrid ideas.

PS sorry about the fan rage

don't see why sexual preference should alter her character radically?

beyond losing the KaraixLeo idiocy

[TurtleMaster4]

don't see why sexual preference should alter her character radically?

beyond losing the KaraixLeo idiocy

it wouldn't really change her, sure, but i wouldn't like it much. I tend not to like gay or lesbian characters. Also Karai, being one of my favorite turtle villains, just wouldn't fit right with me. But i guess the world doesn't revolve around me. :tsad:


Any ways, i guess this doesn't matter much cause i doubt the IDW dudes would do that, and Tom Waltz, if you read this, please try to make a good version of Karai, and also, try to not make her lesbian, thanx :twink:

[Toby Barrett]

KaraixApril4life.

[TurtleMaster4]

KaraixApril4life.

Please no..... but it would make a good comedy sketch! :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

it wouldn't really change her, sure, but i wouldn't like it much. I tend not to like gay or lesbian characters. Also Karai, being one of my favorite turtle villains, just wouldn't fit right with me. But i guess the world doesn't revolve around me. :tsad:


Any ways, i guess this doesn't matter much cause i doubt the IDW dudes would do that, and Tom Waltz, if you read this, please try to make a good version of Karai, and also, try to not make her lesbian, thanx :twink:

Karai being a lesbian would fit her character. She has to be Shredder's subordinate and she might have grown a distaste for male superiority within the ranks of the Foot.

Likewise just because you don't like gay characters doesn't means there is anything wrong with it.

[TurtleMaster4]

Karai being a lesbian would fit her character. She has to be Shredder's subordinate and she might have grown a distaste for male superiority within the ranks of the Foot.

Likewise just because you don't like gay characters doesn't means there is anything wrong with it.

I think it's wrong

but i still don't like the idea

[The Big Bad]

Karai being a lesbian would fit her character. She has to be Shredder's subordinate and she might have grown a distaste for male superiority within the ranks of the Foot.

Um...sexual orientation doesn't work that way, Cubed. It's not tied to a particular character "type", any more than heterosexuality is tied to a particular type of person, nor is it determined by one's animosity towards any one gender.

That said, if any one character is going to be revealed as gay, bi, or any other letter in the QUILTBAG spectrum, Karai is among those where it'd work most naturally, I feel. Or Baxter. Heck, I'd just like a major character to be gay--I don't think the series has had any in its 25-year plus existence, so it's long overdue, I think.

[Samhain]

Um...sexual orientation doesn't work that way, Cubed. It's not tied to a particular character "type", any more than heterosexuality is tied to a particular type of person, nor is it determined by one's animosity towards any one gender.

That said, if any one character is going to be revealed as gay, bi, or any other letter in the QUILTBAG spectrum, Karai is among those where it'd work most naturally, I feel. Or Baxter. Heck, I'd just like a major character to be gay--I don't think the series has had any in its 25-year plus existence, so it's long overdue, I think.

Yeah but, what does it really add to the story? It really wouldn't make a difference.

[CyberCubed]

It would add to the story if they used it. If that woman Karai lost in City at War was her lover rather than her daughter, it would make Karai's age more believable (especially later on in Vol 4 and Tales where she's even older but looks like she's in her 30's) and the fact that Karai makes the most sense for the role.

[TurtleMaster4]

i've never got to read the original comics, except the ones that were once on the ninja turtles website. but wasn't there some thing going on between her and Casey, i guess some thing went on the other night, and Karai won't tell him. if it is what i think it is (you know what i'm talking about, cause if you don't i ain't explain it) that would mean she isn't really lesbian, or at least any more( I don't think she ever was though). me personally, while she could be, i don't think she will ever become a lesbian character, cause, like Samhain said, it wouldn't do nothing for her character. and if they really want a lesbian or gay character ( which i think is useless) they should just make a new one up, instead of taking characters that are already aren't gay or lesbian. cause some people won't want a certain character like that, but in making a new one, we won't complain as much. Making Karai, or any already established character a lesbian, would be just like making Leo gay..... or turning the ninja turtles into aliens!

[Sophie Campbell]

Um...sexual orientation doesn't work that way, Cubed. It's not tied to a particular character "type", any more than heterosexuality is tied to a particular type of person, nor is it determined by one's animosity towards any one gender.

That said, if any one character is going to be revealed as gay, bi, or any other letter in the QUILTBAG spectrum, Karai is among those where it'd work most naturally, I feel. Or Baxter. Heck, I'd just like a major character to be gay--I don't think the series has had any in its 25-year plus existence, so it's long overdue, I think.

word. you rock. complete agreement.

Yeah but, what does it really add to the story? It really wouldn't make a difference.

Samhain, i love you man, but i think this is a dangerous line of thinking. it positions heterosexuality as the "default/blank slate" orientation for a character, like every character is automatically straight unless the story or character concept is specifically LGBT in nature, which i believe is a mistake because it treats queer sexuality like something "extra" or tacked on to a person. like if the main concern is whether a character's sexuality "adds" something to the story, in Karai's case, say, what does either her presumed straightness or her sexuality remaining a mystery add to the story? or if we found out Shredder, whose sexuality also seems a non-factor, was heterosexual, does that "add" anything to the story in the way you're talking about? what is Karai's presumed straightness adding?

i just think there's a double standard here, like if a character is straight people think nothing of it, whatever, that's the default, nothing is added to or subtracted from the story by that, but as soon as a character is anything but straight there's a need for narrative justification for some reason. and the answer to my other questions is that it ALL adds to the story, if Karai is straight that adds to the story, if she's gay, pansexual, whatever, that adds to it to also. they all add different things.

:)

[Venom]

I don't care who sticks what where, or what have you, just tell good stories with compelling characters, dammit!

[TurtleMaster4]

word. you rock. complete agreement.



Samhain, i love you man, but i think this is a dangerous line of thinking. it positions heterosexuality as the "default/blank slate" orientation for a character, like every character is automatically straight unless the story or character concept is specifically LGBT in nature, which i believe is a mistake because it treats queer sexuality like something "extra" or tacked on to a person. like if the main concern is whether a character's sexuality "adds" something to the story, in Karai's case, say, what does either her presumed straightness or her sexuality remaining a mystery add to the story? or if we found out Shredder, whose sexuality also seems a non-factor, was heterosexual, does that "add" anything to the story in the way you're talking about? what is Karai's presumed straightness adding?

i just think there's a double standard here, like if a character is straight people think nothing of it, whatever, that's the default, nothing is added to or subtracted from the story by that, but as soon as a character is anything but straight there's a need for narrative justification for some reason. and the answer to my other questions is that it ALL adds to the story, if Karai is straight that adds to the story, if she's gay, pansexual, whatever, that adds to it to also. they all add different things.

:)

AMEN!

but i really hope Karai is straight, if you want to add a same sex loving person, make it a new person, not an already established character. that is my opinion though. You guys might disagree.

[Samhain]

word. you rock. complete agreement.



Samhain, i love you man, but i think this is a dangerous line of thinking. it positions heterosexuality as the "default/blank slate" orientation for a character, like every character is automatically straight unless the story or character concept is specifically LGBT in nature, which i believe is a mistake because it treats queer sexuality like something "extra" or tacked on to a person. like if the main concern is whether a character's sexuality "adds" something to the story, in Karai's case, say, what does either her presumed straightness or her sexuality remaining a mystery add to the story? or if we found out Shredder, whose sexuality also seems a non-factor, was heterosexual, does that "add" anything to the story in the way you're talking about? what is Karai's presumed straightness adding?

i just think there's a double standard here, like if a character is straight people think nothing of it, whatever, that's the default, nothing is added to or subtracted from the story by that, but as soon as a character is anything but straight there's a need for narrative justification for some reason. and the answer to my other questions is that it ALL adds to the story, if Karai is straight that adds to the story, if she's gay, pansexual, whatever, that adds to it to also. they all add different things.

:)

I appreciate your reply Ross and I respect your opinion. This is obviously something you feel strong about and I can tell from Wet Moon and Shadoweyes(Which I LOVE btw), that you take all these things into account when writing your characters. Maybe I'm different in that, I could give two craps about wether someone is straight, gay, Bi or whatever else. To me, when I'm reading a Tmnt comic I don't really care or even wonder about that kind of thing. :|

[ToTheNines]

Karai being a lesbian would fit her character. She has to be Shredder's subordinate and she might have grown a distaste for male superiority within the ranks of the Foot.

Ugh.

It would add to the story if they used it. If that woman Karai lost in City at War was her lover rather than her daughter, it would make Karai's age more believable (especially later on in Vol 4 and Tales where she's even older but looks like she's in her 30's) and the fact that Karai makes the most sense for the role.

Something was obviously up with Karai in Volume 4 though... those guys from the battle Nexus trying to kill her, and the fact that she referred to the turtles as her former enemies even though they'd always been allies in Mirage.

Seeing Splinter's double in the BN has got me thinking that could be an alternate Karai in volume 4. She was definitely hiding a lot from Leo.

i just think there's a double standard here, like if a character is straight people think nothing of it, whatever, that's the default, nothing is added to or subtracted from the story by that, but as soon as a character is anything but straight there's a need for narrative justification for some reason. and the answer to my other questions is that it ALL adds to the story, if Karai is straight that adds to the story, if she's gay, pansexual, whatever, that adds to it to also. they all add different things.

It's a double standard mainly because (I feel) when most shows and comics that do have a character come out they're just doing it to be edgy and take some moral stand on the matter that doesn't need to be tacked on to the story.

I liked the whole Montoya thing in Gotham Central a lot, and Vito's storyline in The Soprano's was actually interesting even if it was almost totally random, but with something like TMNT... there's enough ninjas, aliens, mutants, monsters, dimensions hoppers, and time travelers that I don't think the "suprise gay character" card needs to ever be played to mine any extra drama.

[Redeemer]

In all honest I would just like to leave sexuality out of comic books period......unless it pertains to the story such as romance, as in Casey and April, or (If she was) Karia being a lesbian and having difficult coming to grips with it, wondering how she would tell her father or should she tell her father, will she bring shame to her clan???? Stuff like that, I dont want sexual orientation thrown out there unless it actually pertains to the story

[Weapons@theready]

I could totally see Mirage Casey being a gaybasher if a homosexual character was brought into the mix

[Venom]

I could totally see Mirage Casey being a gaybasher if a homosexual character was brought into the mix

The dude's best friends are giant talking Turtles, I think he's okay with being different.

[Cowabunga Carl]

(Wow, we're really getting off-topic, aren't we? Oh, well.)

Nothing much I can add, other than an observation: as per the destruction of Casey's bat, is this the start of a future running gag, vis-a-vis, 87's Don's "That was my favorite bo"? Not complaining, for I actually found it amusing.

As for IDW Karai being an eventual carbon copy of the 2003 version, we'll see how it goes, first. I have no qualms with such characterization, providing Earth logic will eventually prevail over her blood ties to the Shredder and avoid the wish-washy back-and-forth, if possible. Admittedly, I certainly was surprised in seeing her so early in the narrative, but, again, we'll see where it goes.

As for her daughter killed in 'City At War,' Karai's age issues aside, I always believed the daughter being killed was merely a plot device to motivate or compel the Turtles to side with Karai. Which, frankly, was rather pointless, as the Turtles likely would have teamed up with her, anyway.

And is the daughter ever mentioned in later Mirage issues? You guys would know, so I might as well ask. Off I go to read the TMNT Entity review.

So I picked this an the Leo issue up today. Have to say another solid two issues. Was kind of glad to finally see the Shredder. Also surprised like the rest of you to see Karai this early. The cool thing though is by her showing up it puts to rest the idea she is Alopex.

Also like the idea of Casey's bat being destroyed being a running gag.

[Powder]

Well this thread certainly went off in some odd directions.

I quite liked this issue, things are starting to pick up a bit, the dialogue seems significantly less cheesey. I really enjoy this whole group involvement thing I'm seeing established, getting to see April & Casey romp with the turtles from the get-go is pretty neat. Loved that Mouser fighter thing, & Dan did some really cool perspective shots. Shredder looks rad. Somewhat surprised to see Karai, at least so early in the game. Interesting that she called him Grandfather. Quite lookin' forward to seeing where things go from here.

[TurtleMaster4]

yea, you guys are lucky to get it, i didn't check my local comic shop yet, cause it's really not local and because i heard the east coast didn't get it. But i am really hoping to get it soon, and really hope they use shredder and karai in a cool way, with out changing the basics.

[Cowabunga Carl]

By making her related to the Shredder again they already have changed her basics though. I'm going to hold off deciding if I like this version of her a little while longer tell we see a little more of her. One page isn't enough to make that call.

I'm looking forward to seeing where the Shredder arc goes. It's cool that he isn't totally covered in armor though. Also glad that he didn't turn out to be Hob. I was a little worried for a bit about that. And like I said before glad Karai wasn't Alopex.

[TurtleMaster4]

By making her related to the Shredder again they already have changed her basics though. I'm going to hold off deciding if I like this version of her a little while longer tell we see a little more of her. One page isn't enough to make that call.

I'm looking forward to seeing where the Shredder arc goes. It's cool that he isn't totally covered in armor though. Also glad that he didn't turn out to be Hob. I was a little worried for a bit about that. And like I said before glad Karai wasn't Alopex.

actually, by changing the basics i meant by changing her sex preferences, but lets try not to get of topic again, cause it's really not pertaining to the comic.

but anyways, i do hope Karai is treated well, and i want to see a good father daughter relation ship too. of course, with shredder still being the killer he is in the original comics

[Cowabunga Carl]

I have been refraining from talking about the whole sexuality thing mostly because it is a nonissue for me. If they be straight or gay it doesn't make a person or character any less awesome/bad ass then they already were.

For me making Karai related to the Shredder is a huge change to her character in its self. I liked the aspect of her being a rival leader from Japan. To me it made so much sense that she is a rival, Shredder failed so they sent someone to clean up his mess.

If they really want a lackey for Shredder there is Tatsu, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun, or make a new character.

[Toby Barrett]

I for one welcome the book's new hottie hot Karai.

[marcelangelo]

word. you rock. complete agreement.



Samhain, i love you man, but i think this is a dangerous line of thinking. it positions heterosexuality as the "default/blank slate" orientation for a character, like every character is automatically straight unless the story or character concept is specifically LGBT in nature, which i believe is a mistake because it treats queer sexuality like something "extra" or tacked on to a person. like if the main concern is whether a character's sexuality "adds" something to the story, in Karai's case, say, what does either her presumed straightness or her sexuality remaining a mystery add to the story? or if we found out Shredder, whose sexuality also seems a non-factor, was heterosexual, does that "add" anything to the story in the way you're talking about? what is Karai's presumed straightness adding?

i just think there's a double standard here, like if a character is straight people think nothing of it, whatever, that's the default, nothing is added to or subtracted from the story by that, but as soon as a character is anything but straight there's a need for narrative justification for some reason. and the answer to my other questions is that it ALL adds to the story, if Karai is straight that adds to the story, if she's gay, pansexual, whatever, that adds to it to also. they all add different things.

:)

I think there is a lot of truth in there and I am happy that there are people seeing this double standards in the way we people treat each other on earth, not just in sexuality but in most matters, financial, racial etc...

the matter of this whole thing though to me is:where does ANY characters sexuality come in AT ALL in issue 9?!?!?did I miss something there?..so the question :what does it add to the story here?' is legit to my ears, as NOTHING was said or intended to have to do with anyones sexuality...so who does what with whom is really not important...

[TheCollector]

Not to take away from the war in here but I feel like saying this in regards to April and Duncan's art.

I'm personally amazed at how Duncan's art has evolved over the course of the series, he's really gotten into the characters, I mean back during issue 1, personally I felt April was drawn kinda ugly, but now, especially in the first page of issue 9 she's just stunning.

It's just great how much better she, and everything is looking now.

[TurtleMaster4]

I think there is a lot of truth in there and I am happy that there are people seeing this double standards in the way we people treat each other on earth, not just in sexuality but in most matters, financial, racial etc...

the matter of this whole thing though to me is:where does ANY characters sexuality come in AT ALL in issue 9?!?!?did I miss something there?..so the question :what does it add to the story here?' is legit to my ears, as NOTHING was said or intended to have to do with anyones sexuality...so who does what with whom is really not important...

i agree, you should never treat some one different, but i'd rather them keep sexuality out of the comics, if you want to add it, just make a new character not an old one.

and to answer your question in where was this in the issue, it was no where, some people just though it would be interesting, and that's whee this "argument" began

[Donnie]

Not to take away from the war in here but I feel like saying this in regards to April and Duncan's art.

I'm personally amazed at how Duncan's art has evolved over the course of the series, he's really gotten into the characters, I mean back during issue 1, personally I felt April was drawn kinda ugly, but now, especially in the first page of issue 9 she's just stunning.

It's just great how much better she, and everything is looking now.

He's gotten better, but for me, he's already lost his appeal...I'm just not really a fan of his art after we've seen Ross in full TMNT action, knowing what we could have had instead of Dan. His Turtles looked especially bug-eyed in this one.

[Toby Barrett]

I still prefer Dan's art to Ross', but that's just me.

[marcelangelo]

i agree, theres nothing wrong with being different, but i'd rather them keep sexuality out of the comics, if you want to add it, just make a new character not an old one.

and to answer your question in where was this in the issue, it was no where, some people just though it would be interesting, and that's whee this "argument" began

okay, thanks for clearing that up...sometimes it's hard to follow where a new discussion point begins;)...
agree with your way of thought here.

as for the art of the ongoing book I am fighting with myself here...I was blown away when I saw the first glimpses of issue 1 in the ashcan way back last year...then when I read the actual issue there was some downgrading in my enthusiasm for dan's art in the books...the reason behind it still accompanies every new issue for me.it is found in what I feel as a little fast pitched art, sort of not-really-well-thought-out pannels with 'scribbled' background(that's just my trying to describe it, not meant to be insulting) and sometimes it feels like there is space wasted a little or not used in the best way(that's just an observation of mine, doing comics myself I guess you focus more on how pannels are used to portray what is important here...)
also he often uses effects like these spilled dots of ink if you get what I am trying to name with that..you know when artists splash ink with their brush onto their art to add for the action.since this is all done with computers in the inking stage this doesn't really work for me and I think he uses the effect too often to really make it work, but in my opinnion this is something a LOT of comic book artists are doing these days and not specifically duncan's fault...
often I find myself following the line work in his pannels and you recognize where he erased something and the fact that this is trackable for the readers eyes somehow downgrades the whole thing a few notches for me, too...it leaves me with a feeling as if nobody cared enough about the artwork there..I don't want to diss dan's work too much as I nevertheless enjoy the idw run so far and am curious to where all this leads.also I think one should never lose in the context that despite all the little problems I/we may have with the art or whatnot with this series the fact that we get a turtle adventure on a monthly basis is still great.this shouldn't excuse anything but is really great!
lastly, we get other artists take on the brothers with the micro issues and I am so happy that they are continuing beyond the first four!...
whew...just had to get that of my chest!;)...

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

It's a double standard mainly because (I feel) when most shows and comics that do have a character come out they're just doing it to be edgy and take some moral stand on the matter that doesn't need to be tacked on to the story.

I liked the whole Montoya thing in Gotham Central a lot, and Vito's storyline in The Soprano's was actually interesting even if it was almost totally random, but with something like TMNT... there's enough ninjas, aliens, mutants, monsters, dimensions hoppers, and time travelers that I don't think the "suprise gay character" card needs to ever be played to mine any extra drama.

It's made an issue in storylines because it reflects real life, where people still make sexual orientation a big issue. As time goes on and people become more accepting, it will probably be less of a big deal to have a character that is gay or lesbian.

Gotham Central's "Half a Life" was one of the best Batman stories in recent years. Bringing up the character's sexual orientation was effective for drama because it turned Montoya into a sympathetic underdog you could get behind.

[Andrew NDB]

This thread has become a little bit surreal. But no, a character who in the actual source material has a daughter and was last seen banging Casey Jones probably shouldn't be IDW's first pick to homosexualize.

Now, Baxter? OK. Why not?

[Dirty Blond]

I for one welcome the book's new hottie hot Karai.

She has nicer boobs than the 4Kids Karai.

:thyper:

[TheCollector]

She has nicer boobs than the 4Kids Karai.

:thyper:

If you ask me I rank Karai's I know of like this.

At the bottom is 4kids Karai, who I really never liked the look of. Then again I didn't like the look of any 4kids female characters. All looked kinda manish to me.

After that this new IDW Karai.

Then TMNT 4 Karai.

Then second 4kids Karai from Back to the Sewers and Turtles Forever at the top.

Though that's just in terms of looks. By merit, TMNT 4 is the bottom, and both 4kids Karai's at the top.

I honestly don't know where this Karai'll fall in that list, too soon to tell.


He's gotten better, but for me, he's already lost his appeal...I'm just not really a fan of his art after we've seen Ross in full TMNT action, knowing what we could have had instead of Dan. His Turtles looked especially bug-eyed in this one.

I dunno, while I agree Ross' art is pretty damn good, I just think everything's too... Cute. Especially the turtles.

[Powder]

So... The Mirage Karai doesn't exist in your world?

[Candy Kappa]

Mirage Karai would use TMNT4 karai as a weapon to beat 4Kids Karai over the head with, leaving no murder weapon.

[The Big Bad]

the matter of this whole thing though to me is:where does ANY characters sexuality come in AT ALL in issue 9?!?!?did I miss something there?

Nope: It was brought up offhand, and a comment was made that while presumably well-meaning, repeated tropes that are problematic, since intentionally or not, they dehumanize gay people by suggesting that they can only have certain types of personalities, or that only people with certain types of personalities can be gay. Hence, my comment. It doesn't relate at all to issue #9 specifically, and the conversation could conceivably be split off somewhere else, should the mods want (although personally, I like it here--I like it when conversations take unexpected turns).

[Venom]

the conversation could conceivably be split off somewhere else, should the mods want (although personally, I like it here--I like it when conversations take unexpected turns).

Thus far it's fine in this topic and everyone has kept it civil, so I've let it be. If it nosedives is when I'll step in. :twink:

[TheCollector]

So... The Mirage Karai doesn't exist in your world?

Huh? No, it's not that, did you not read my post? These are just the one's I have experience with. I never read the Mirage comics, so I don't really know anything about Mirage Karai.

[Powder]

Oh ok, gotcha. You said "The Karai's I know of", I took that literally. Didn't think you meant the ones you were knowledgable of only.

[shuriken]

Tangents abound yaaaay. Never thought Karai should be would be gay.
But Baxter, like Andrew said... yeah sure why not. Could be interesting. Not that I care but whatevs.
Anyway I enjoyed the issue, Duncan's art is growing on me, even the wonky plastrons and semi elongated heads. Shredder looked Badass though.

[ToTheNines]

This thread has become a little bit surreal. But no, a character who in the actual source material has a daughter and was last seen banging Casey Jones probably shouldn't be IDW's first pick to homosexualize.

Now, Baxter? OK. Why not?

Almost 15 years later and IDW Baxter never got any bitches.

Sus?

[Heyowakka]

Too busy dreaming about becoming president and shooting his dead dad.

[TheLabRat]

Too busy dreaming about becoming president and shooting his dead dad.

That's the absolute lowest. Even in his villain micro comic, his father was more like a strict disciplinarian, trying to lead him into an elite.

He had already taken over his father's business to achieve his revenge, so why was he still so determined to kill his father with his own hands?