Which Shredder is better: 03 or 87. [Archive]

MikeandRaph87

05-10-2012, 08:49 PM

I was disappointed with Shredder being an utrom. It made it feel like it was not really Shredder but some subconcious effort to wrap Shredder and Krang into the same character. I loved Shredder since a little kid and still to this day as my favorite villain because of the '87 cartoon. Shredder is awesome on his own but Krang,Bebop, and Rockstedy make it even better even if he is more badass on his own.

Stingray69

05-10-2012, 09:21 PM

Utrom shred was more b a no doubt about it. But dang there's just something about ot shredder that gets my nod over ch'rell. I'm sure it's just cus I'm old though and grew up with ot shredder.

Spitfire

05-10-2012, 09:30 PM

Pretty sure Turtles Forever answered this question.

Nintendophile

05-10-2012, 11:04 PM

I personally like OT Shredder over 03 Shredder. Not that he's a better VILLAIN, just a more entertaining CHARACTER. (In my ever-so-humble opinion. :tlol: )

Powder

05-11-2012, 12:38 AM

I'm kind partial to the FW (90's) Shredder, BUT he has to be paired with Krang. What made the Fred Wolf villains fun was their dynamic together. The "old married couple" vibe they had was fun.

Definitely this.

oldmanwinters

05-11-2012, 12:52 AM

As awesome as the 2k3 Shredder was in that first season, he sorta became more of a nuisance than an intimidating threat by Season 2... even before he was outed as an Utrom criminal. In his first appearance, all four 4 get owned by him and only a desperate strategy by Splinter could save the day. But by Secret Origins part 3, they pretty much have the guy's number. He would never again pose a threat in head-to-head battles with the turtles in his normal armor. He needed severe upgrades just to have a fighting chance in battle, whether it was humongous exo-suits or Krang's matter expansion technology.

And yet, Ch'rell still maintained that same ol' "I am the most powerful being in the universe" attitude that he had in his first appearance. It just became more pathetic than cool.

So, yeah, I definitely prefer the personality depth seen in James Avery's version of the Shredder. He could be witty, despicably, or a buffoon, depending on whatever the plot called for.

Shredder

05-11-2012, 01:32 AM

I personally like OT Shredder over 03 Shredder. Not that he's a better VILLAIN, just a more entertaining CHARACTER. (In my ever-so-humble opinion. :tlol: )

Agreed. OT Shredder is by far my favorite version of the character. :)

Lampy

05-11-2012, 05:16 AM

Pretty sure Turtles Forever answered this question.

:D I like the 4Kids Shredder... he was more of a badass than the OT Shredder. Ch'rell kicked OT Shredder's ass in his utrom form. that's saying a lot.

ZariusTwo

05-11-2012, 05:25 AM

Bebop and Rocksteady kicked Ch'rell's ass though...which says something else a lot...

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

05-11-2012, 05:43 AM

2003 Shredder rocked during season 1-early season 2, before the "Secret Origions" story destroyed it all. What would be wrong with using both Shredder and Krang/Dimension X/Technodrome in a TMNT universe, but having both on their own sides. This would allow.

*Episodes dealing with ninjutsu/martial arts using Shredder as enemy, and focusing on Leonardo
*Episodes dealing with science fiction using Krang as enemy, and focusing on Donatello

In the 1987 show Shredder rocks like when he takes down the TMNT in the "Incredible Shrinking Turtles" after a pure game, no guns or Dimension X laser guns. Just martial arts.

Bad Guys Lover

05-11-2012, 06:20 AM

OT Shredder all the way!

Candy Kappa

05-11-2012, 06:36 AM

Fred Wolf Shredder is a better fleshed out villain, and He'd probably do the same things as Ch'rell did, had he have the same technology and opportunity.

ABrown

05-11-2012, 10:07 AM

Had the entire original cartoon been in the "red sky" style, I would definitely say the Shredder from that series. But since the bulk of his appearances was during the comedy days, I'm gonna go with the Shredder from the 2003 cartoon.

cartoonistaaron

05-11-2012, 10:18 AM

Fred Wolf Shredder - he had a better voice, a cooler costume, and uttered that immortal line "Tonight I dine on... Turtle Soup!!" And just better dialogue overall.

Yeah he turned into kind of a parody of himself pretty quickly. But that voice, man.

Plus 2k3 Shredder was way too convoluted. He was cool at first, but then he was an Utrom? And then there was that Tengu Shredder, whatever that was? Too much.

Icebot

05-11-2012, 01:39 PM

2003 Shredder was much more dangerous than 1987 Shredder.

ZariusTwo

05-11-2012, 01:41 PM

2003 Shredder was much more dangerous than 1987 Shredder.

"I. Never. Bluff."

gzilla46

05-11-2012, 02:59 PM

Plus 2k3 Shredder was way too convoluted. He was cool at first, but then he was an Utrom? And then there was that Tengu Shredder, whatever that was? Too much.

They probably did that because they tried to add as MUCH character development as they could with Shredder. But still, there's only SO MUCH you can do with a certain character.

Method101

05-11-2012, 05:18 PM

CMON NOW! True, 03 shredder may have been more bad ass, but JAMES AVERY as shredder makes me choose the 87. Just so many good memories growing up with the original shredder character, it actually bothered me in Turtles Forever when they made him out to be a little punk to the utrom one

Lethal Lullaby

05-11-2012, 06:02 PM

I'd have to go with the 2K3 Shredder. He actually looked like someone you don't wanna mess with. Also this may sound cliche but "he does have a great sense of style. I mean nice outfit".

SS_Turtle

05-11-2012, 06:23 PM

2K3 Shredder was dark, badass and worthy of being a true villain.To top it off he was actually a threat!

ZariusTwo

05-12-2012, 05:03 AM

2K3 Shredder was dark, badass and worthy of being a true villain.To top it off he was actually a threat!

To be brutally honest, he stopped being a threat after the Turtles whooped him in "Return To New York"

OT Shredder once levitated 90% of NYC. Has Ch'rell ever done that?

Stingray69

05-12-2012, 06:02 AM

To be brutally honest, he stopped being a threat after the Turtles whooped him in "Return To New York"

OT Shredder once levitated 90% of NYC. Has Ch'rell ever done that?

Plus dude the technodrome, come on technodrome vs office building. It's technodrome for the win by a landslide.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

05-12-2012, 06:07 AM

OT Shredder once levitated 90% of NYC.

Which episode?

Stingray69

05-12-2012, 06:28 AM

Which episode?

Pretty sure its sky turtles.

Xav

05-12-2012, 08:09 AM

03 Leonardo

05-12-2012, 10:06 AM

Neither Shredder is cool to me. While only one is my arch nemesis, they are both evil villains.

Jester

05-12-2012, 11:05 AM

Wouldn't FW Shredder be 80's?
I guess, but the series ran for 10 years...7 of which were in the 90's.

Samhain

05-12-2012, 12:14 PM

2k3 is better. But FW Shred-head is far more entertaining.

Jester

05-12-2012, 12:17 PM

FW Shredder: More Character. More Entertaining.
4Kids Shredder: More "EVIL!!!". More Intimidating.

MikeandRaph87

05-12-2012, 12:21 PM

FW Shredder: More Character. More Entertaining.
4Kids Shredder: More "EVIL!!!". More Intimidating.

I will go with that except Chr'ell was ALLOWED to be more "evil" because of less restrictions when the cartoon was made opposed to the late 80s' into the mid 90s' where more restrictions forced more chessy and less dark. Just imagine if Shredder was allowed to have kills off screen like was done in some 2000s cartoons and his partner-in-crime had to have shed someone's blood to be exiled as he was.

ssjup81

05-12-2012, 12:28 PM

I will go with that except Chr'ell was ALLOWED to be more "evil" because of less restrictions when the cartoon was made opposed to the late 80s' into the mid 90s' where more restrictions forced more chessy and less dark. Just imagine if Shredder was allowed to have kills off screen like was done in some 2000s cartoons and his partner-in-crime had to have shed someone's blood to be exiled as he was.Adding on it was on network television too which was very restrictive.

Killer Moth

05-12-2012, 01:19 PM

To be brutally honest, he stopped being a threat after the Turtles whooped him in "Return To New York"

OT Shredder once levitated 90% of NYC. Has Ch'rell ever done that?

If you count the Manhattan Project game as part of that era, then technically that's twice he levitated NYC. Although, 87 Shredder didn't have the "I must not have my public identity become associated with my secret crimes and criminal organization for as long as possible" shtick, which Ch'rell had to deal with as Oroku Saki. Thus, it's a lot easier for 87 Shredder to cut loose. Conversely, as mikeandraph and others noted, Ch'rell benefited with lesser censorship, so he, in turn, could cut loose with mayhem, death, destruction, etc. It's an interesting Catch-22 when you compare/contrast them.

I want to like Ch'rell, except he's too one-dimensional. It's great he's more competent and actively wants to kill the Turtles, yet he doesn't get more complicated than "I'm evil! I hate Turtles! Yah!" What else is there? Granted, the same could be said with 87 Shredder, in terms of general motivation, but as oldmanwinters implied, 87 Shredder clearly has far more personality and range in his approach.

Besides achieving the rare "comedic relief villain who could actually pose a serious threat" archetype, 87 Shredder in the early-to-middle seasons had a borderline sympathetic quality in his constant failures. You almost want to feel sorry for him, until you realize what he did with the Mousers, Baxter's near execution (twice!) and much later, "I Never Bluff."

Great work if you can get it, and most animated villains, especially of that era, don't.

Powder

05-13-2012, 12:13 AM

Neither Shredder is cool to me. While only one is my arch nemesis, they are both evil villains.

...Are you actually going to roleplay when you post? :roll:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

05-13-2012, 08:07 AM

Pretty sure its sky turtles.

Krang's invention.

Dirty Blond

05-13-2012, 11:49 PM

Karai Shredder.

:tlove:

Stingray69

05-14-2012, 09:37 AM

Krang's invention.

Did ch'rell invent anything himself?

RiseAbove873

05-14-2012, 11:01 AM

OT Shredder all the way!

SherlockJr

05-14-2012, 03:52 PM

I prefer the OT Shredder, but only because he's absolutely hilarious, not because I think he's that threatening of a villain.

Zany Orange Dude

05-14-2012, 03:58 PM

OT Shredder, because he makes the 87 cartoon for me. He is a horrible ninja, a whiner, and completely hilarious. OT Shedder rocks.:twink:

wzcb08

05-31-2012, 03:17 AM

Maybe it's an age thing for those that choose between the two. 87 shredder for me wins, just too many good memories growing up and watching the show.

AK_Mikey_Fan

05-31-2012, 05:36 AM

For me, it would have to be OT Shredder. I found him more entertaining and more interesting than 2003 Shredder (mostly found him as a cliche evil villain). Plus, OT Shredder has the funniest insults of any animated villain I have ever seen.

pannoni1

05-31-2012, 07:09 AM

Since there was only one true Shredder, the 1987 Shredder wins it for me. I found it wacky for the Shredder to be a mantle in the 2003 version (though the original Utrom Shredder was still cool for being badass. But when you have the Cyber Shredder and the Ch'rell Shredder, it just falls a bit flat). Much more entertaining to watch the OT Shredder as well; we get to see many more battles with him as well!

Frozen_Cereal

06-06-2012, 09:08 PM

I like both Shredders, but I'm partial towards OT Shredder since he was funny and a good villain, compared to the constant "I am ULTIMATE DOOD" attitude of 4Kids Shredder. Sure, 4Kids Shredder was way more badass, but I like my villains that are funny and threatening.

Gyt Kaliba

06-07-2012, 09:56 AM

I like both quite a bit, which is why I'm kind of wary going into the Nicktoon version when we get to him. I mean, I love OT Shredder to death - he's hilarious, James Avery's readings for him are perfect, the relationship he has with Krang and Rocksteady & Bebop are great, he's just a great character.

On the other hand, 2K3 Shredder is a lot more imposing. He feels a lot more like a legitimate threat, and as Forever showed us he is batsh*t crazy. But like a lot of you said, it could have just been restrictions that kept the OT Shredder from being equally vicious.

But yeah, we've already got two awesome takes on the character, one that's more goofy and one that's more serious. If the Nicktoon Shredder is goofy, chances are I'll still like the OT Shredder more. If he's serious, I find it hard to believe he'll be as intimidating as the 2K3 Shredder. Anything in-between the two, might be a bit disappointing as well. So yeah...I'll be picky with Nick's version probably.

Back on topic though, if I absolutely had to choose...I'd probably go with the OT Shredder. Too many awesome memories.

Jelly Bean

06-07-2012, 02:23 PM

80's shredder.

Roland

06-07-2012, 03:39 PM

The OT Shredder was the best. 03 Shredder was badass but just too serious and angry. I just don't like it when he beats up baxter stockman. The OT Shredder personality was better. His armor in the OT was the coolest the 03 armor looks more evil robot samurai.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

06-07-2012, 06:34 PM

Did ch'rell invent anything himself?

I don't think so. Baxter Stockman did most such work.

magidkaiser

06-11-2012, 03:35 PM

The Old Shredder for sure!

Donatello19

06-18-2012, 07:56 PM

as funny as the OT shredder is, the 2k3 shredder is much more threatening and evil like he is in the original comics

joetheripper

06-20-2012, 06:11 PM

87' All Day! way to Classic to remake.

gzilla46

08-06-2012, 07:18 AM

Lance_Steele

08-06-2012, 07:43 AM

OT Shredder FTW

I love James Avery's delivery of the character. 2k3 was badass and a legit threat but OT was awesome and funny.

Jayhan

08-06-2012, 08:58 AM

From a kid's point of view (between 5 - 8 ), I'd say that 80s Shredder was entertaining as a villain. I totally digged his costume. :D The only problem is that I grew up watching ninja turtles in French, so I cannot judge which English voice actor sounded best as Shredder.

But damn, 2K3 Shredder was the most intimidating cartoon villain I've seen in a while. As a teen, he scared the hell out of me! ... And made me appreciate the villain all the more.

I agree with many others that the concept of ch'rell ruined what I thought was the sublime, evil incarnation of Shredder. But it didn't matter too much to me, as long as he was hiding under the armor of his humanoid suit.

There was a thing that I grew tired of in the 2K3 show, and that was the constant recycling of the 2K3 Shredder. It worked out fine till the end of season 3, and I actually liked Tengu Shredder to some extent. After that... Well, let's say that if the writers of the show decide to off the Shredder, then they should stick with it.

MikeandRaph87

08-06-2012, 09:32 AM

OT Shredder FTW

I love James Avery's delivery of the character. 2k3 was badass and a legit threat but OT was awesome and funny.

I felt that quite a bit of the legit threat was taken away when it was revealed he was a rengade utrom who could not build anything on his own. Still a threat but he was taken down a few notches with the reveal.

Lance_Steele

08-06-2012, 02:12 PM

I felt that quite a bit of the legit threat was taken away when it was revealed he was a rengade utrom who could not build anything on his own. Still a threat but he was taken down a few notches with the reveal.

Tell you the truth I was disappointed in the utrom reveal. It was just weird.

Shreddhead

08-07-2012, 12:01 AM

Found this, thought it was appropriate
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Genesis

08-07-2012, 12:07 AM

I dig Marcman's comparison vids.

Lampy

08-07-2012, 12:57 AM

From a kid's point of view (between 5 - 8 ), I'd say that 80s Shredder was entertaining as a villain. I totally digged his costume. :D The only problem is that I grew up watching ninja turtles in French, so I cannot judge which English voice actor sounded best as Shredder.

But damn, 2K3 Shredder was the most intimidating cartoon villain I've seen in a while. As a teen, he scared the hell out of me! ... And made me appreciate the villain all the more.

I agree with many others that the concept of ch'rell ruined what I thought was the sublime, evil incarnation of Shredder. But it didn't matter too much to me, as long as he was hiding under the armor of his humanoid suit.

I totally agree with this. 2k3 Shredder was everything i thought shredder should be (minus the utrom part). While the wacky OT shredder gave me some incredible laughs when i was a child, 2k3 Shredder just takes this one for me. He was THE villain of that story. The fact that he kept returning to give the Turtles hell was fantastic to me. While i don't really like an utrom shredder, it explained why he kept coming back. But then again, a human shredder that kept coming back "from the dead" would have been more entertaining. It would have been like "He is THAT badass!". :tgrin:

Slade

08-07-2012, 01:04 AM

Though I really like my villains to be badass, I will have to go with OT Shredder. My only reason, I HATE that the 03 Shredder is really an Utrom.

Green Machine

08-07-2012, 06:17 AM

Though I really like my villains to be badass, I will have to go with OT Shredder. My only reason, I HATE that the 03 Shredder is really an Utrom.

Agreed. I think it's incredibly lame that Shredder is a tiny little blob of crap inside an exosuit. The Original Shredder may have been a bumbling idiot, but at least he's not an utrom.