El Mayimbe Of Latino Review Apparently Has The TMNT Script

[Bob]

Before anyone screams bulls#it, El Mayimbe from latinoreview.com, to be fair, has been right on the button so many times in the past its not even worth calling him a liar. If he says he's got the script, I'm inclined to believe him. Any haters of the original toon may not want to read his tweets:

https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/214550556558110721

https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/214553168338632706

https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/214554316751642624

[Slap-Happy]

I definitley believe him. He's been doing script reviews for years, including some Platinum Dunes scripts.

[Green Machine]

The codename is The Blue Door huh? I guess the green door was taken back in the 70s...lol

I like what I'm reading in his tweets though!

[Bob]

It’s sounding like the TMNT film my five year old self wished the original film was back in 1990. Of course, with the team involved, I doubt we’re going to get a very kiddie film, so if they can take these elements and make them more grounded and grittier then I think this could turn into something really good. But I envision a lot of people will be very troubled by these tweets.

Already just by reading these you can see why the budget is apparently quite high. Apparently Paramount wants to get it down to 125 million. That's still much higher than I thought a TMNT film would cost.

[Donnie]

Can somebody please just quote what this guy is saying? I can't open Twitter at my workplace...many thanks!

[Slap-Happy]

Can somebody please just quote what this guy is saying? I can't open Twitter at my workplace...many thanks!

Here's what he said:

Reading a script called THE BLUE DOOR by Nemec & Applebaum. THE BLUE DOOR is the secret code name for TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES! ;)

Skimming through Turtles, I see KRANG and THE TECHNODROME RT

Skimming through, I also see BEBOP and ROCKSTEADY and see something called DIMENSION X. RT

[Galactus]

If budget is an issue there's an easy fix. Make the movie grounded, street level, TMNT fighting Shredder and the Foot etc. That's what worked for the first movie and why it's aged much better than the others.

Save the Technodromes and Bebops and Rocksteadys for the sequels, if indeed the must be there.:roll:

[zkarlette]

I don't understand why a movie reviewer would be able to get ahold of the script...Speciallyat such an early stage.

[CyberCubed]

Krang being in the movie shouldn't surprise anyone, both IDW and Nick are using an incarnation of him.

Surprised about the Tehnodrome though, how the hell will they do that?

[d_osborn]

I don't understand why a movie reviewer would be able to get ahold of the script...Speciallyat such an early stage.
latinoreview used to do a lot of legit, early script reviews. new screenplays get passed around in social circles all the time in the film biz. it's very common...

you used to see a LOT more script reviews for upcoming films, but now it seems the studios have have put the kibosh on that by offering ritzy set visits, interviews, etc. to the big movie news sites.

[Powder]

The only thing I fnd so surprising is the amount of spoilers. I mean really, c'mon, how could be allowed to do say all that?

[PAAATE]

If anyone here has the script or knows where to find it, I'd love to read it, since they're rewriting it anyway.

And this isn't one of those "Ohh, I can't wait to see the movie, so I have to read the script"-impatient kinda things. I hate those. This is just a "I love to read scripts"-geeky kinda thing. :)

[ZariusTwo]

If budget is an issue there's an easy fix. Make the movie grounded, street level, TMNT fighting Shredder and the Foot etc. That's what worked for the first movie and why it's aged much better than the others.

But if it's been done before, and done well enough in the first movie, why pay for a repeat performance?

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans).

[Jester]

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans).
I'd consider myself a Fred Wolf fan, and I really DON'T want the Technodrome, Krang, or Bebop and Rocksteady in the new movie. They worked great in the show because of the tone of that show, but I really don't see them working in a "serious" movie.

[Bob]

If budget is an issue there's an easy fix. Make the movie grounded, street level, TMNT fighting Shredder and the Foot etc. That's what worked for the first movie and why it's aged much better than the others.


I don't want a live-action version of the original toon, but what you've just described is a remake of the first film. I think a new take might be what this franchise needs. What you envision could end up looking and feeling very bland and generic. A mix of the two would suffice.

[zkarlette]

The only thing I fnd so surprising is the amount of spoilers. I mean really, c'mon, how could be allowed to do say all that?

That's what I'm thinking...I hope that all the spoilers don't end up doing what the word " aliens" did, and get the movie pushed even farther than it is.

[The Stryker]

That's what I'm thinking...I hope that all the spoilers don't end up doing what the word " aliens" did, and get the movie pushed even farther than it is.

The movie isn't delayed because of fans overreacting to aliens you dolt.

[Xav]

But if it's been done before, and done well enough in the first movie, why pay for a repeat performance?

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans). I don't get what you mean about the Mirage elitists having their fun. The first movie wasn't exactly a strict adaption of the Mirage comics.

The movie isn't delayed because of fans overreacting to aliens you dolt. Well that's what Ninja Pizza claimed.

[Roseangelo]

Well that's what Ninja Pizza claimed.

I only said that as speculation based on an e-mail I got. Whether or not that is the real reason, no one at Paramount is likely to ever confirm.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

But if it's been done before, and done well enough in the first movie, why pay for a repeat performance?

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans).


You did...it's called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze.

That's not a knock, I like Turtles II as well as the first one.

[Mr.Turtle]

why blue...

[Slap-Happy]

why blue...
... There is no reason behind it. It's just a name that would keep other people from reading the script due to it's lame title.

[zkarlette]

why blue...

Usually they make up weird names when they are filming to hide locations and what not.

[Spitfire]

But if it's been done before, and done well enough in the first movie, why pay for a repeat performance?

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans).

Really one movie means we've had our fun? One movie that still rides the OT line with silliness at parts. 99% of all the TMNT merch is OT and it's obvious that the new comics and this new film, most likely the new cartoon as well, are all being fueled by the OT and not the Mirage books. The OT fans have been having their fun for almost 25 years now. Mirage fans have had scraps and most of the cool stuff we were to get was canceled.

I don't care what they want to try and pull off in the film. The era of turtles I love the most has long since passed. I don't mind the OT, it's great fun, but it's far from the best stuff turtles has had to offer. I can't cling to a cartoon I loved when I was 5 years old and say I want to see it live action. We're 15+ years past that for me. I want to see a turtles movie that's intelligent and covers the over arching theme of the series as a whole. The first movie came closest to nailing it but they still cut a fair bit of it out from what I've heard.

What I don't want to see is "Cowabunga", pizza eating, bad excuses for them to wear colored masks, burp and fart jokes, and Mikey making a moron out of himself every other scene. But that's what they're clearly aiming for and that's why I doubt I'll enjoy this film unless there's a serious over haul on the script. I'm well aware that's the turtles that sells but the other could sell too if people would make the effort for it.

[Donnie]

You did...it's called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze.

That's not a knock, I like Turtles II as well as the first one.

Agreed.

Spitfire definitely hit the nail on the head. Agreed 100% man, although I'm a huge 2k3 Mikey fan so I don't mind Mikey acting silly.

[ZariusTwo]

An intelligent TMNT movie? That would imply the comics are by any stretch of the imagination deep and intelligent to begin with. Reality check: There not.

The first TMNT issue is a generic, flavourless bloodbath for rednecks too cheap to read Frank Miller Daredevil. The first movie took an already dopey concept, took some traits from the cartoon and poured it into a half-way decent journeyman film which satisfies on more than one level...but unfortunatly, for you, that isnt enough, you feel TMNT should be entitled to a film that makes it look better than the sum of it's parts (probably in some vien attempt to proclaim to the world "I like TMNT" without dying of embarrasment). The day you stop living in that elitist fantasy world and start accepting TMNT for what it is in the mainstream is the day you can actually enjoy a movie based on it's more fantastical aspects.

Nobody goes to a TMNT movie to think.

Quite frankly, setting yourself up to hate the movie just because they will say "cowabunga" and have Mikey act stupid is assanine. This is how the world, and how the CREATORS, have viewed the Turtles for years, it's become part of their mythology now. Nobody cares about how they used to act in the BLAND OLD DAYS. The TMNT movie YOU want would BOMB at the Box Office. Guranteed. Kids wouldnt be able to see it, and adult fans would just find it outright BORING due to it's absurd groundedness and lack of any imaginitive quirks.

I can't cling to a cartoon I loved when I was 5 years old and say I want to see it live action. We're 15+ years past that for me

15 years+ past, and yet what do the mainstream constantly yammer about when it comes to a TMNT movie? "Where's Krang? Where's Bebop and Rocksteady? Where's The Technodrome?", and we've yet to get them in live-action, so we havent yet had our fun where that's concerned. That experiance is needed to complete their nostalgic fanboy journey. Just because YOU and the MIRAGE minority don't want to see things from the old cartoon realized in grander ways doesnt mean you speak for the world, who DO hold on to the show for many reasons, and who DO want to see them in action.

You know why you don't get jack? The MIRAGE stuff IS NOT VERY INTERESTING. Adapting the best of it could only fill up about two seasons of the seven year 4Kids series, which sensibly chose to AVOID being exactly like it and did it's own thing. Dark and compelling at times? Yes, but it didnt forget the quirkiness and light-hearted aspects that the franchise attained during it's OT heyday. If Laird wanted to, he'd have given you your bland black-and-white dross, but he RECOGNIZED the TMNT had to maintain those elements, however slight, to appeal to the KIDS watching. KIDS are who eat this franchise up the most, NOT 30-40 year olds who hold on to the darker days of a niche comic that only told about four or five memorable stories in a sixty issue initial run

Spitfire definitely hit the nail on the head. Agreed 100% man.

Ah shaddap.

[Xav]

Look I don't care if the film is a exact copy of the Mirage books or not. But I don't want the Technodrome, Krang, or Bebop and Rocksteady in the movie. The first film was the most grounded and the most sucessfull. When they started adding more mutants and fantasy elments the films did worse. BTW the first run of the Mirage books was 62 issues.

[Donnie]

Ah shaddap.

Well that's not nice. I actually edited my post, I don't agree 100% - I like goofball Mikey...didn't realize he singled that out. But I'm with him in the fact that I sure as hell do not want Bebop & Rocksteady, nor do I want an OT movie adaption.

Your problem is you can't get past the fact that Turtles isn't just what the mainstream makes it out to be. TMNT at this point is such a mish-mosh of different takes (comics, cartoons, games, etc.) that to base a movie off of just one of those is asinine. I don't want a totally Mirage based movie, but I'd rather it be way more Mirage/2k3 than OT.

[Galactus]

But if it's been done before, and done well enough in the first movie, why pay for a repeat performance?

The MIRAGE elitists have had their fun, it very well ought to be OUR turn (OT fans).

Because that approach worked and is still seen as something integral to success of the TMNT. When it deviated from that is when the movies stopped working...I don't necessarily that's the reason why but it's a good enough reason to start with a more grounded movie.

Whether it's Triceratons and the Federation or Rock Soldiers and animal mutants I'd say keep stuff of that ilk until after you've won the audience over. A more grounded movie is much more likely to do that imo.

I certainly wouldn't call myself a Mirage elitist like say Andrew but I'd argue that fans of that version haven't had our fun when it comes to other versions at all.

Of course if people feel really strongly about how we need Fred Wolf tropes to be succesful then why not go the whole hog and make a pure live action Fred Wolf based movie like the Flintstones or Scooby Doo live action features? Obviously everyone involved knows such a movie would tank. For a movie I feel we need certain tropes that are not found in the 80s show. Where else is better to get these things than extrapolating then from the original comics were these things do exist?

That's for me is the best argument of why the movie should take its cues from the comics - because it's easier to fit that into a movie that works for todays audiences than the Fred Wolf version. That's not to say they couldn't be made to work but to do them for no other reason than to please a bunch of thirty year olds with the sense of "cool I remember them" and piss of another bunch of thirty year olds with the sense "aww they totaly ruined them" isn't a good reason to include them.

[Spitfire]

An intelligent TMNT movie? That would imply the comics are by any stretch of the imagination deep and intelligent to begin with. Reality check: There not.
Not really. It implies there's potential. There's no shame in expanding upon the fiction in ways the original writers never thought of. And yes I'm aware the OT does this but to be honest there isn't much imagination in that series either after awhile.

The first TMNT issue is a generic, flavourless bloodbath for rednecks too cheap to read Frank Miller Daredevil.
Rednecks? What are you talking about? And of course it's like Daredevil that's what it was a parody of.

The first movie took an already dopey concept, took some traits from the cartoon and poured it into a half-way decent journeyman film which satisfies on more than one level...but unfortunatly, for you, that isnt enough, you feel TMNT should be entitled to a film that makes it look better than the sum of it's parts (probably in some vien attempt to proclaim to the world "I like TMNT" without dying of embarrasment).
Yes because a film that takes a good concept and makes it even better is a stupid thing to expect when it can be done. It wouldn't take much. It's all in the writing and Eastman and Laird already wrote the stories they just need to be reconstructed properly. And I don't know maybe you get made fun of for liking Turtles but I've never once in my entire 24 years on this planet had someone give me crap for being a turtles fan. I've got nothing but compliments for it and I don't hide it either. You seem to think Turtles is like Magic The Gathering or something.

The day you stop living in that elitist fantasy world and start accepting TMNT for what it is in the mainstream is the day you can actually enjoy a movie based on it's more fantastical aspects.
What the mainstream thinks is what they're told to think. If you tell them Batman runs around with giant bombs and uses shark repellent they will think he does. There's nothing stopping anyone from making a different kind of turtles film. The argument that it wouldn't sell because people are attached to an old cartoon most of them don't even remember more then the fact that they watched it is pretty invalid.

Nobody goes to a TMNT movie to think.
Maybe not but action films don't have to be mindless. I'd gladly think in a turtles movie, or a batman film, or Spider-man.

Quite frankly, setting yourself up to hate the movie just because they will say "cowabunga" and have Mikey act stupid is assanine. This is how the world, and how the CREATORS, have viewed the Turtles for years, it's become part of their mythology now.
Those are a few examples, I don't feel like listing them all. The creators? Really? This would be the same creators that kind of ignore the OT because it's not really what they had in mind right?

Nobody cares about how they used to act in the BLAND OLD DAYS. The TMNT movie YOU want would BOMB at the Box Office. Guranteed. Kids wouldnt be able to see it, and adult fans would just find it outright BORING due to it's absurd groundedness and lack of any imaginitive quirks.
No you don't care about those days and therefore assume the rest of the world doesn't. If no one cared IDW wouldn't still be releasing Mirage collections because they wouldn't be selling. You assume to know every possible way the kind of turtles film I'm talking about could be made and the exact outcome. Let me know where you gained your ability to read minds and foresee the future. Comic book films are in right now and adapting the turtles comic would grab attention. If it's well made it could blow people away. Batman broke it's silly Adam West series public perception with the Tim Burton film, it wouldn't be hard for turtles to do it.

15 years+ past, and yet what do the mainstream constantly yammer about when it comes to a TMNT movie? "Where's Krang? Where's Bebop and Rocksteady? Where's The Technodrome?", and we've yet to get them in live-action, so we havent yet had our fun where that's concerned.
So live action is all that matters? Let's just ignore everything else?

That experiance is needed to complete their nostalgic fanboy journey. Just because YOU and the MIRAGE minority don't want to see things from the old cartoon realized in grander ways doesnt mean you speak for the world, who DO hold on to the show for many reasons, and who DO want to see them in action.
Yeah well the same logic could be applied to you. The amount of actual OT fanboys is about the same as Mirage fanboys. Average people who buy a turtles wallet are not fanboys, they're average people who don't give a crap about the stuff we're talking about. If the OT was so cherished by the entire world as you put it then the DVD sales would be a lot stronger. Stop pretending the OT is Loony Toons. It's not some cartoon classic. It was never even re-aired.

You know why you don't get jack? The MIRAGE stuff IS NOT VERY INTERESTING.
The concept behind it is very interesting and there's been plenty of well written stories in the universe. Certainly more interesting then the turtles fighting the same 4 bad guys every episode. When they need a new bad guy they make up some silly mobster or mad scientist. Most of the OT is pretty damn forgettable. Most people only fondly remember the first two seasons.

Adapting the best of it could only fill up about two seasons of the seven year 4Kids series, which sensibly chose to AVOID being exactly like it and did it's own thing. Dark and compelling at times? Yes, but it didnt forget the quirkiness and light-hearted aspects that the franchise attained during it's OT heyday. If Laird wanted to, he'd have given you your bland black-and-white dross, but he RECOGNIZED the TMNT had to maintain those elements, however slight, to appeal to the KIDS watching. KIDS are who eat this franchise up the most, NOT 30-40 year olds who hold on to the darker days of a niche comic that only told about four or five memorable stories in a sixty issue initial run
Laird had some say in the episodes but reading his blog makes it clear that not all his ideas we're used. In fact a good amount weren't. Your blind fanboy rage against the comics is odd to me, like they called your mother a whore or something. I really don't get how you could completely loath an entire portion of the franchise to the point where you assume everything from it is garbage. Makes me question how much of it you've really read.

And yeah the franchise could be for kids but it could be for adults too. Only kids wanted to see Transformers, I didn't know any adults who wanted to see it. I mean seriously. You could say that about anything. In the end what matters is how it's made. If it's made well enough people will eat it up and I know for a fact there's plenty of people who would like a more "adult" turtles film. Maybe you're some jaded 40 year old nerd but us younger guys and gals who grew up with the turtles don't see an issue with our favorite childhood series growing up too.

[ZariusTwo]

Look I don't care if the film is a exact copy of the Mirage books or not. But I don't want the Technodrome, Krang, or Bebop and Rocksteady in the movie. The first film was the most grounded and the most sucessfull. When they started adding more mutants and fantasy elments the films did worse.

Turtles II is pretty well loved actually. Turtles III is the sole stinker.

TMNT is "fashionably disliked" by a few idiots, but that film is very entertaining too, and that had fantastical elements in it.

Why shouldnt we get Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady and The Technodrome in this movie? It's about f*cking time they did, so far I havent heard ONE really convincing reason as to why they shouldnt be in it. I just get laughable shlock like "the movie has to be GROUNDED"

To HELL with "groundedness", the TMNT concept is f*cking stupid enough as it is, just go nuts with it and stop being so particular about what should and shouldnt be in a damn COMIC BOOK MOVIE. If The Avengers can afford aliens and make a box office killing with it, TMNT can afford Dimension X. Period.

[Donnie]

Turtles II is pretty well loved actually. Turtles III is the sole stinker.


I don't agree - I think Turtles III is rather enjoyable, just as enjoyable as TMNT was.

[ToTheNines]

Why shouldnt we get Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady and The Technodrome in this movie? It's about f*cking time they did, so far I havent heard ONE really convincing reason as to why they shouldnt be in it. I just get laughable shlock like "the movie has to be GROUNDED"

To HELL with "groundedness", the TMNT concept is f*cking stupid enough as it is, just go nuts with it and stop being so particular about what should and shouldnt be in a damn COMIC BOOK MOVIE. If The Avengers can afford aliens and make a box office killing with it, TMNT can afford Dimension X. Period.

Depending on how they were used, I guess it could work. But it comes down to the fact that adapting that into a competent PG-13 action movie, it would make those characters and concepts too "epic."

The Avengers is a poor comparison here. They are Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they work for a government agency and were all established crime fighters on their own before they became a group.

With the TMNT, they're not heroes in the traditional sense, so having them out in the streets fighting off Rock Soldiers and The Technodrome is just too much. The conflict in a Turtles movie has to be more personal, and less of a "save the world" type of thing. The turtles hide from the world above, which is why it works best when they fight ninja clans and stuff like that.

Then again, I don't write scripts for Hollywood. Maybe there's a way it could work.

And maybe you think the movie should be a straight up comedy like the OT was. If that's the case, feel free to watch the 193 episodes it left behind.

[Spitfire]

With the TMNT, they're not heroes in the traditional sense, so having them out in the streets fighting off Rock Soldiers and The Technodrome is just too much. The conflict in a Turtles movie has to be more personal, and less of a "save the world" type of thing. The turtles hide from the world above, which is why it works best when they fight ninja clans and stuff like that.
So this. Some of the worst episodes of 2K3 had them fighting aliens.

As for Avengers well it's based off one of those comic thingies you seem to hate so much called the Ultimates. It had aliens, it had Loki working with them, and it had the team bickering and fighting one another.

[Xav]

Why shouldnt we get Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady and The Technodrome in this movie? It's about f*cking time they did, so far I havent heard ONE really convincing reason as to why they shouldnt be in it. I just get laughable shlock like "the movie has to be GROUNDED" Because they weren't in the original comics, and this movie was promised to be based off of them. Plus those characters aren't very great to begin with. Why does Shredder need moronic henchmen who always screw up his plans, or why does he need to take orders from a burping brain? Yeah, they may have been fun when we were kids, but I've outgrown them.

[Bob]

Now he says he'll only post a review once he gets 10k followers. Pretty weak. I suggest we all follow him if we've got Twitter accounts.

[Mr.Turtle]

let's put this thing straight: movie1>movie2>movie3.

[Powder]

For once, I agree.

[Candy Kappa]

Wonder how much different a live action movie technodrome would look like. Cause a Fred Wolf inspired movie could work just fine.

But the Technodorme got a very silly and goofy design, and Hollywood usually ain't forgiving when it comes to silly. Live-Action Galactus comes to mind....

[Donnie]

But the Technodorme got a very silly and goofy design, and Hollywood usually ain't forgiving when it comes to silly. Live-Action Galactus comes to mind....

I think they'd be severely numb to today's movie industry to think they could get away with making a giant metal ball on wheels with the Eye of Sauron on top a serious threat.

[Candy Kappa]

As long as it's engaging the audience and make them emote with the heroes that the challenges they are facing are a threat to then in their own world and context, it can still be goofy.

[Logan]

Did that eye ever serve any purpose? I have no recollection of it doing anything.

I think it would be cool to have it in a movie. I'd like a faithful film of the Mirage comics, but having the OT translated to live action would be in second place for me. I love them both and I'm unashamed of it.

[Xav]

It was it's weak point in the first video game.

[Ninjinister]

0la5DBtOVNI

Does this have to be perma-embedded on every damn page of this site? COME ON GUYS Our passion for the Turtles should be bringing us together, not putting us at each other's throats.

[Cryomancer]

Why can't we have a "thinking man's" TMNT movie that also has fantastic elements?

Mirage has the turtles in space by issue 5, so I have never once bought this "must only be new york alleys and sewers at all times" line of thinking. I'd sure as hell go see a movie version of the Fugitoid arc.

[Donnie]

Why can't we have a "thinking man's" TMNT movie that also has fantastic elements?

Mirage has the turtles in space by issue 5, so I have never once bought this "must only be new york alleys and sewers at all times" line of thinking. I'd sure as hell go see a movie version of the Fugitoid arc.

Absolutely!

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

Judging by the number of followers he has, I don't think his little bribe worked.:trazz:

[Mr.Turtle]

it's fun to cut each others throat sometimes.

[PAAATE]

it's fun to cut each others throat sometimes.

Heheh, yeah, it sure i... wait, WHAT!?

[Bob]

Judging by the number of followers he has, I don't think his little bribe worked.:trazz:

He’s a bit of an idiot, really. He’s not some celebrity. He’s never going to get 10k followers. Guess we won’t be seeing a review. It’s a pretty childish thing what he’s done, basically screaming out “I have the TMNT script”, but then refusing to say anything more.

[Donnie]

He’s a bit of an idiot, really. He’s not some celebrity. He’s never going to get 10k followers. Guess we won’t be seeing a review. It’s a pretty childish thing what he’s done, basically screaming out “I have the TMNT script”, but then refusing to say anything more.

Yeah. Only thing I don't understand is usually PD, Nick, Bay, and those involved with the film have been awfully hush-hush about the whole thing, and then some tool comes on Twitter giving away pretty big spoilers, and isn't told to take them down. Even Kid Cudi didn't tweet spoilers.

So it makes you wonder if this guy is maybe blowing our horns because of his reputation. You never know.

[Mr.Turtle]

i think he just want some attention frm the public thats all...

[Bob]

Yeah. Only thing I don't understand is usually PD, Nick, Bay, and those involved with the film have been awfully hush-hush about the whole thing, and then some tool comes on Twitter giving away pretty big spoilers, and isn't told to take them down. Even Kid Cudi didn't tweet spoilers.

So it makes you wonder if this guy is maybe blowing our horns because of his reputation. You never know.

I don't doubt his sincerity. To be fair, he's always on the level when it comes to things like this. I just don't see why it’s different this time. For example, he posted a review of the script to the first Transformers film nearly a whole year before the finished film came out, so I don't see the difference. As I said, I just think he’s being a bit childish this time, showing his apparent “superiority” by demanding a ridiculous number of followers that he knows he’s not going to get. Its just his way of saying “I’m in the know and you’re not”.

[marcelangelo]

An intelligent TMNT movie? That would imply the comics are by any stretch of the imagination deep and intelligent to begin with. Reality check: There not.

The first TMNT issue is a generic, flavourless bloodbath for rednecks too cheap to read Frank Miller Daredevil. The first movie took an already dopey concept, took some traits from the cartoon and poured it into a half-way decent journeyman film which satisfies on more than one level...but unfortunatly, for you, that isnt enough, you feel TMNT should be entitled to a film that makes it look better than the sum of it's parts (probably in some vien attempt to proclaim to the world "I like TMNT" without dying of embarrasment). The day you stop living in that elitist fantasy world and start accepting TMNT for what it is in the mainstream is the day you can actually enjoy a movie based on it's more fantastical aspects.

Nobody goes to a TMNT movie to think.

Quite frankly, setting yourself up to hate the movie just because they will say "cowabunga" and have Mikey act stupid is assanine. This is how the world, and how the CREATORS, have viewed the Turtles for years, it's become part of their mythology now. Nobody cares about how they used to act in the BLAND OLD DAYS. The TMNT movie YOU want would BOMB at the Box Office. Guranteed. Kids wouldnt be able to see it, and adult fans would just find it outright BORING due to it's absurd groundedness and lack of any imaginitive quirks.



15 years+ past, and yet what do the mainstream constantly yammer about when it comes to a TMNT movie? "Where's Krang? Where's Bebop and Rocksteady? Where's The Technodrome?", and we've yet to get them in live-action, so we havent yet had our fun where that's concerned. That experiance is needed to complete their nostalgic fanboy journey. Just because YOU and the MIRAGE minority don't want to see things from the old cartoon realized in grander ways doesnt mean you speak for the world, who DO hold on to the show for many reasons, and who DO want to see them in action.

You know why you don't get jack? The MIRAGE stuff IS NOT VERY INTERESTING. Adapting the best of it could only fill up about two seasons of the seven year 4Kids series, which sensibly chose to AVOID being exactly like it and did it's own thing. Dark and compelling at times? Yes, but it didnt forget the quirkiness and light-hearted aspects that the franchise attained during it's OT heyday. If Laird wanted to, he'd have given you your bland black-and-white dross, but he RECOGNIZED the TMNT had to maintain those elements, however slight, to appeal to the KIDS watching. KIDS are who eat this franchise up the most, NOT 30-40 year olds who hold on to the darker days of a niche comic that only told about four or five memorable stories in a sixty issue initial run



Ah shaddap.

I ignored the wish to tell you off when badmouthing some of my favourite comics before, but I think I' just let you know about one or two things, compadre:
first of all, it's great that there are so many different reasons for people to hang on to those characters.everybody can have their personal fun and enjoyment and we all love to see the boys come back to the big screen and thus move into a bigger spotlight of attention in general for a moment.

so, I can appreceate when people like the ot more than this or the 4kids more than that etc, but you just blatantly **** up these great comic books just because you don't find your enjoyment in them doesn't mean that they are bad.and beleave me a big part of why I even came back into my favourite toy and tv programm from back in the days as a young adult was the fact that I found out there were comics prior to anything I had known about them.by now I know this was the case for many fans...
I tracked them down one by one and these books are absolutelly beautiful.noboady can say any different, you may not like them but the guys doing them were putting everything they had into them and they came out great.sure there is stuff incorporated or played with that was not created by them themselves but that doesn't make it cheap at all since they are using it creativly and the main parts of the story don't evolve around those things(daredevil origin in #1 for example)...

also I'd like to see what would be better or more serious and apparently not so ridiculous a concept for you in other comic based movies out there?the avengers?spider-man?batman?superman?
actually I think everything could be ridiculed in one light but that depends on the eye of the beholder and people who can see beyond such 'weird' aspects of a story/character often are granted with a richer experience.

in short:don't you talk bad about my comics man!!!!;)

[Leo656]

Zarius often comes off so caustic that even if I agree with his points it's sometimes hard to defend the way he expresses them... but he's more right than not on this one. A few things to remember whether we want to or not:

-TMNT is NOT, from the ground up, anything resembling "reality", or "grounded" in any way, and never was, it's in fact a fairly light-hearted half/spoof of then-popular trends in comics and film, mixing "gritty" martial arts stuff a'la Frank Miller's Daredevil with some pretty far-out and fantastical mystical and science-fiction elements. It's ALL always been there (unless your TMNT starts and ends with Mirage #1, and if so, what a sad and shallow world you must live in), so it's ALL just as relevant even if you don't like parts of it. Being in black and white and having blood doesn't make the Mirage TMNT any "better" or "more realistic" just because they ocasionally bother using proper Japanese words for things and "act like real ninjas"... not when there's a bunch of aliens that look sorta like brains, tons of robots, and a giant F'n alligator running around in the exact same "grim n gritty and oh-so-real" comic book. It's not "worse" for those elements either, it just is what it is. It's only as "serious" or "dark" as the reader wants it to be; if a reader reads Mirage, and in his head the TMNT have colored bandanas and voices like the OT, then it's not blasphemy, it's TRUE, because it's how THEY interpret it.

-Pop culture characters and they way they are portrayed, along with what is "Most essential" to any "iconic" storyline like a film, changes as time goes by and things are added or taken away. Look at Superman: Luthor, The Daily Planet, and even Kryptonite all didn't show up until much later. Kryptonite didn't show up for about a decade, and that was in the radio show, NOT the comics. Superman couldn't fly, either, until the radio show "said so". NONE of these changes were "accurate" to the source material, BUT looking back, can we imagine Superman without these things? NO. Adding these things wasn't "sacrilege" or "disrespectful to the source material", they made the comics that came later more interesting, and made the character more interesting.

- Sometimes the look of a character can change over time, and it's usually OK, most people even prefer it. To wit: Superman's S was all yellow in the comics at first; the TMNT wore all red in the comics at first. Someone changed it later on in both cases. Ask anyone one the street what color Superman's S is, they'll say "red & yellow"; ask a random person what color Leonardo the Ninja Turtle wears, odds are 99% they'll say blue. It's not "wrong" and it's not "ignorant", it's called "MOST people simply think it's better this way, if they even think about it at all". One thing it's not, in either case, is the end of the f*cking world. The only reason I occasionally rib Mirage hardcores about the bandanna thing is because, seriously guys, only you care, nobody else even thinks about it. It's not "right" just because it's the source material, any more than the colors are "right" just because most people think it is. It literally just "is what it is". Plus, we've had 25 years to get used to the idea, I think it's safe to say it's "acceptable" for the Turtles to have colored bandanas. I say Batman wears black and grey; Adam West fans think he wears blue and grey, movie fans prefer he wears all black. Still Batman, so What-F'n-EVER.

- Just because villains, background characters etc. were introduced in another medium besides the source doesn't make them blasphemous or irrelevant either. To draw out the super-hero analogy a bit more, many of Superman and Batman's more popular villains and supporting cast came from cartoons, radio, and other places that *not everyone* thought was, overall, the best interpretation of the character, but they've since become an important part of their respective mythos regardless. **There are NO bad characters/concepts, only poor EXECUTION**. Just because the OT version of, say, Bebop, might look stupid in the same context with Mirage Shredder doesn't mean NO version of that character could fit into that universe if someone wanted to tell that story, just like Batman: TAS's version of Harley Quinn would be out of place with Heath Ledger's Joker, you could still make it work in a different way if you wanted to. The entire character/conept isn't worthless just because one version of it doesn't fit next to another version of something else.

-Hollywood doesn't make movies, not with properties like TMNT; they make toy commericals. PERIOD. THE END. You can't make a niche movie of a mainstream property, you simply CAN NOT DO IT. It's the entertainment business and TMNT is a property that literally oozes (no pun intended) toy potential, and they are 100% right to exploit that to the very last dollar because that's how business works, no matter how badly some might want to see "The River" done in live action. There are a lot of Mirage stories that would be fodder for a really well-done independently-made film made in the exact same tone as the comics, just like "Death & Return Of Superman" would be awesome on the big screen if done with total accuracy. Neither will ever happen, so my advice is to go the route of many others on the internet, and if you're not satisfied with the Hollwood version of TMNT, grab some friends and a camera and make a fan-film, because it's the only way you're ever gonna get what you want.

My real advice? Just go with the flow and hope we at least get a TMNT film that has more than 8 pages of script. I have serious issues with people who think it's "impossible" the new movie might be any good because "It's not Mirage", "There's Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady, & a Technodrome", or even because maybe, just maybe, the TMNT *might* be aliens. All those things could be true, and the movie could still POTENTIALLY be awesome as f*ck if they were all done a certain way.

Point is, pizza, Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady, and the Technodrome, like it or not, are in every single way JUST as relevant as Shredder, Stockman, and Fugitoid, and if we're talking brand recognition and not fanboy love, some of that "junk" is MORE important. If they're in the movie, good; I think more people want to see that than, say, ANY story from Vol. 4 done as a film. I don't want a Mirage TMNT movie... I don't want an OT movie, or an Archieverse movie... I want what I'm pretty sure most sane people want: A TMNT film that takes the most familiar and iconic pieces of the ENTIRE mosaic, shakes them up, and puts them together in a way that makes narrative sense and doesn't sh*t on any one piece of TMNT history. It CAN be done that way, and it's the best chance of pleasing the most people and making sequels happen.

I know "you can't please everybody", but TMNT is such a scattershot franchise that if you DON'T try that, you miss 90% of your potential audience just to make a few people happy. I'm with Zarius 100% that they should bite the bullet and give people the TMNT they remember, not the TMNT the purists want. If they don't, kiss it goodbye, because I'm pretty sure Hollywood thinks this franchise is poison as it is, between the fact they can never seem to get started along with the fact the TMNT "fans" can never stop arguing. How can any of you/us expect them to give us anything good when we can't even decide what's "good" in the first place?

WHY are we the only fanbase that has such a disconnect?!

[ZariusTwo]

WHY are we the only fanbase that has such a disconnect?!

The TMNT fandom isnt unique to that, you find it with any fandom that have experianced multiple retoolings of their product. Since TMNT has had only a few incarnations in total across film and television, it's still reletivley young in that regard compared to, say, Transformers, now a long, long way from G1

[Green Machine]

The TMNT fandom isnt unique to that, you find it with any fandom that have experianced multiple retoolings of their product. Since TMNT has had only a few incarnations in total across film and television, it's still reletivley young in that regard compared to, say, Transformers, now a long, long way from G1

Exactly right. The Transformers have had so many different incarnations there are mulitiple "sub-groups" of Transformers fans. It's not nearly as bad with TMNT. For the most part it seems like the Original cartoon is celebrated or at least respected by a lot of the TMNT fandom. Generation one transformers is broadly crapped upon by more modern transformers fans (movie fans, Prime fans). Even Beast Wars (which was the original fandom to crap on G1) gets dumped on by modern fans. I am enjoying the TMNT fandom much more than Transformers these days.

[Mr.Turtle]

i think it's ok for chars to change their looks over time. we change our appearance thru time ourselves too so its reasonable as long as they r good change... but that doesnt mean i accept the stretched donnie...

[1984TMNT]

An intelligent TMNT movie? That would imply the comics are by any stretch of the imagination deep and intelligent to begin with. Reality check: There not.

The first TMNT issue is a generic, flavourless bloodbath for rednecks too cheap to read Frank Miller Daredevil. The first movie took an already dopey concept, took some traits from the cartoon and poured it into a half-way decent journeyman film which satisfies on more than one level...but unfortunatly, for you, that isnt enough, you feel TMNT should be entitled to a film that makes it look better than the sum of it's parts (probably in some vien attempt to proclaim to the world "I like TMNT" without dying of embarrasment). The day you stop living in that elitist fantasy world and start accepting TMNT for what it is in the mainstream is the day you can actually enjoy a movie based on it's more fantastical aspects.

Nobody goes to a TMNT movie to think.


This is where I stopped reading. I beg to differ. So many people would have said the same thing about Batman movies prior to 2005. Just because you think the TMNT are silly and should be represented by their OT incarnations only, doesn't mean you're right. I'm not saying my opinion is better than yours, but I happen to disagree that people wouldn't want to see a serious version of the Turtles that isn't a kid / popcorn flick ONLY. You need look no further than the success of the original movie, and since then, fan fictions such as "fight the foot" to see that a LOT of people would love to see this type of movie made about TMNT.

Are there a ton of people that would love to see a movie version of the OT? Sure! I wouldn't hate it. However, I think the franchise stands to gain a lot by having it's own series of "Batman Begins" quality/tone films. I can argue that nobody wanted to "think" at a Batman movie, and low and behold, we now have 2 critically acclaimed films (soon to be 3) about that character which really dig deep. I'm sure many people similar to yourself thought all Batman could ever be was Adam West and "Pow!" - well, that's simply wrong.

At the end of the day, I love many incarnations of the TMNT. I'm not saying that a movie should be made strictly about one or the other, but ideally, I'd like to have a movie that is indeed gritty, but with aspects that ARE and always be a part of the TMNT universe (comedy, OT characters like Bebop and Rocksteady), etc. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. Realistically, I think combining all of these things could make for an epic movie.

[marcelangelo]

thank you 1984tmnt!you are speaking my mind but I may have not made myself clear enough earlier....
another thing in kind of response to leo656:I know about zarius way to adress his points of view around here;)...but what made me want to post here was the point that 1984tmnt reffered to:just because I think something is not to be taken serious doesn't mean that it CANT be taken serious by others....
one thing in response to you leo656:...let me say this about my tastes:I am not of the oppinion that violence makes a movie better or more serious/mature if you will...quite the opposite, to me the comic turtles just WORKED...thats why I would love to see them in a movie like that..but I couldn't agree more that the first live action movie IS really a nice adaptation of that flavour;)...
but it surely would be fun to explore these turtles more...

[rufus]

thank you 1984tmnt!you are speaking my mind but I may have not made myself clear enough earlier....
another thing in kind of response to leo656:I know about zarius way to adress his points of view around here;)...but what made me want to post here was the point that 1984tmnt reffered to:just because I think something is not to be taken serious doesn't mean that it CANT be taken serious by others....
one thing in response to you leo656:...let me say this about my tastes:I am not of the oppinion that violence makes a movie better or more serious/mature if you will...quite the opposite, to me the comic turtles just WORKED...thats why I would love to see them in a movie like that..but I couldn't agree more that the first live action movie IS really a nice adaptation of that flavour;)...
but it surely would be fun to explore these turtles more...

Would be cool to see the comic turtles if not in a live action film than in a animated feature like what WB has going with their comic adaptation on DVD.

[Leo656]

I honestly think the first movie is about as serious as any TMNT movie has a right to try and be. I thought the tone was right-on. Some think it's an awkward mix of OT and Mirage, but that's what I liked about it. It's not a perfect film but it had weight while not taking itself overly seriously. I love the Nolan Batman films too but I can't see anyone other than SERIOUS die-hard TMNT fans being willing to watch a TMNT movie that is SO self-serious as that.

[marcelangelo]

yes, some of these animated features are really well done I must say...and turtles forever never seems to bore me at all, so yeah that would be great to see some day..BUT for they should go for original stories set in that environment rather than bringing to te screen what the comic book gave us...my point of view here...it rarely translates to something that excites me rather than is merely pretty duplicating something that excited me...

[Bob]

He’s got 31,000 followers now. He’s just left a message saying that he has to post a review now. Don't know where all those followers came from. He was below 4000 a couple of weeks ago.

[1984TMNT]

I honestly think the first movie is about as serious as any TMNT movie has a right to try and be. I thought the tone was right-on. Some think it's an awkward mix of OT and Mirage, but that's what I liked about it. It's not a perfect film but it had weight while not taking itself overly seriously. I love the Nolan Batman films too but I can't see anyone other than SERIOUS die-hard TMNT fans being willing to watch a TMNT movie that is SO self-serious as that.

It doesn't have to match the exact tone of Batman Begins to be serious and dark. Not to mention, there would naturally be a lighter/comedic side to it that was lacking in Batman Begins as the TMNT material lends itself to that more so than the Batman character.

In my opinion, it would be great to see a re-boot in the same tone as the 90 movie. Obviously, some things could be improved upon, but the overall feel of that movie is my favorite incarnation of the boys, ever. It's real / yet not, has decent action and comedy - all while not being a parody of itself. While I get that some fans prefer the TMNT to be a parody, I've always taken them as seriously as most other comic characters. In a nutshell, I believe they deserve to be treated with seriousness/respect. That does NOT mean they need to be overly serious and devoid of silliness/comedic elements. There is a way to capture all of that in a script and resulting film - it just needs someone with that kind of vision to make it a reality.

As far sci-fi elements such as Dimension X, Krang, etc - I say bring them on. You can have a movie take itself fairly serious while also including those elements (it doesn't necessarily need to happen in Movie #1, btw). I definitely think that a really well done script, director, actors could pull off a movie that captures all these things without it being a shallow, comedy/action summer popcorn flick without much substance.

[Redeemer]

So I dont know how true this is, but sounds interesting
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-script-features-appearances-by-krang-bebop-rocksteady-20120710#

This would completely be bad ass!!!

[Roland]

That would be awesome! So i wonder if their making a OT turtle tracks remake. Maybe even the neutrinos may even feature. Always wanted to see how Krang would look in cgi.

[Leo656]

Everyplace I see an article or something about a new TMNT movie, there's always more than a few comments about how the "worst" thing about the original films was "no Krang, Bebop, or Rocksteady". So I agree, might as well give it a shot, people have wanted to see it from Day One and they all have stories that could work well *if handled competently*. I emphasize that last part because that'swhere Hollywood usually drops the ball. But we can hope.

To wit, I thought Scarecrow was an awful villain to relaunch the Batman franchise, before I saw "Batman Begins". Shows what I knew. Stuff can work if people try.

[Galactus]

Everyplace I see an article or something about a new TMNT movie, there's always more than a few comments about how the "worst" thing about the original films was "no Krang, Bebop, or Rocksteady". So I agree, might as well give it a shot, people have wanted to see it from Day One and they all have stories that could work well *if handled competently*. I emphasize that last part because that'swhere Hollywood usually drops the ball. But we can hope.

Krang I could agree with as he had an actual story to him and could carry a movie on his own and be adapted modern sensibilities.

Bebop & Rocksteady however are too superfluous, giving them an origin would take too much time considering there'd just be two lackeys for the turtles to easily dispense with. They have no story beyond their origin and trying to base a movie around characters like that already failed. Secret Of The Ooze would only have been marginaly better with them instead of Tokka & Rahzar and only in the sense that it'd be cool to see cartoon favourites come to life - the story would still be the same and it still would have been a huge step down from the first movie.

I still feel a lot of the appeal of the turtles lies in their quasi realistic setting, even in Fred Wolf how often did the Technodrome go on a rampage? It was never out there long before it was always depowered and sent to some obscure place out of sight and we were back to normal. I'm a big fan of the sci fi and fantasy aspects but I think they should be saved for sequels. A reboot should be back to basics TMNT vs Shredder & Foot Clan. Maybe get clever and forshadow TCRI or the Technodrome or whatever.

To wit, I thought Scarecrow was an awful villain to relaunch the Batman franchise, before I saw "Batman Begins". Shows what I knew. Stuff can work if people try.

Ra's Al Ghul was the main villain of Begins. Scarecrow plays a cool but minor role really, he's worked in very well but could easily have been rewritten with another character taking his place. The only reason he's there is that it was a left over Schumacher idea for the Batman & Robin followup that WB really latched onto. Interestingly Schumacher's idea for a Scarecrow based movie was pretty decent. Whether he'd been allowed to see it through properly is another question entirely though.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I'm not against ever seeing Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady in a movie. It is more that I want there to be a reason for them to be there other then people think it would be cool. Using Batman as an example is getting old I know, but I mean look at Begins.

They took Scarecrow and made him a character that became more popular because of the re-imagining. People looked forward to seeing him again. If they are going to include these characters really think about why and if they serve the story. Just don't throw them in there because "people demand" it.

[Green Machine]

I'm not against ever seeing Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady in a movie. It is more that I want there to be a reason for them to be there other then people think it would be cool. Using Batman as an example is getting old I know, but I mean look at Begins.

They took Scarecrow and made him a character that became more popular because of the re-imagining. People looked forward to seeing him again. If they are going to include these characters really think about why and if they serve the story. Just don't throw them in there because "people demand" it.

I agree. People might demand it, but most people don't know what makes a good movie (myself included). I'd love to see Krang, Rocksteady, and Bebop in the movie. But only if it makes sense. When the first movie came out I was a kid and I admit I was very disappointed that they weren't in it. Now that I'm an adult I understand why they weren't.

[Bob]

I'm not against ever seeing Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady in a movie. It is more that I want there to be a reason for them to be there other then people think it would be cool.

To be fair, though, with that rumoured synopsis floating around, it seems that there is a reason for them being there. At least for Krang. Maybe this is the reason why they're going down the alien route?

[Redeemer]

Wow no else is excited about the news?????

[Bob]

Wow no else is excited about the news?????

It’s because this thread has come far too late. I broke the news in this thread http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=37916 five weeks ago.

In short, everybody knows.

[Ninjinister]

Who
The hell
Is
Beebbop?

[Xav]

He’s got 31,000 followers now. He’s just left a message saying that he has to post a review now. Don't know where all those followers came from. He was below 4000 a couple of weeks ago.Spam bots.

[Andrew NDB]

Wow no else is excited about the news?????

Had it actually been news my reaction might be "aghast," but I think it's been pretty clear for a while now that with no more Peter to tell people "no" that things would be going full-bore Fred Wolf.

[Redeemer]

It’s because this thread has come far too late. I broke the news in this thread http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=37916 five weeks ago.

In short, everybody knows.

Sorry I didn't c it or realize it..... Can a mod delete the thread?????

Who
The hell
Is
Beebbop?

Lol sorry but my computer is 5 years old and some of the keys stick for some reason...

[Vincent]

I'm definitely in favor of the Technodrome, Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady being in it. It's a great move in terms of pleasing the general audience, and it's the thing a lot of people keep wanting and not getting from TMNT movies, and those are iconic images with great potential regardless of their goofy origins. I just hope the tone is more in line with the Mirage comics than with the Fred Wolf series, and I hope the storytelling and character drama is solid, and that the turtle balance is more even than the Imagi movie (which I liked for the most part, but found to be far too focused on Leo and Raph).

I like the Fred Wolf series okay, but I prefer more story- and character-heavy incarnations, so I'd love to see a blend of Fred Wolf concepts and Mirage-style storytelling.

ETA: I do hope April is not a reporter. That always struck me as a Lois Lane thing.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Here's what I don't understand...Kevin Eastman is talking about having fight scenes like The Raid: Redemption and Fist of Legend...

How...I repeat HOW...can you do that in a script that has Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang?

That'd be like if the 80's turtles cartoon had the violence from the movie Heavy Metal...it's not a mix that makes sense...

[Bob]

Here's what I don't understand...Kevin Eastman is talking about having fight scenes like The Raid: Redemption and Fist of Legend...

How...I repeat HOW...can you do that in a script that has Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang?

That'd be like if the 80's turtles cartoon had the violence from the movie Heavy Metal...it's not a mix that makes sense...

I assume the Foot and Shredder will be in the film, too. That's where all the martial arts will come from.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I assume the Foot and Shredder will be in the film, too. That's where all the martial arts will come from.

So you'd have hardcore fight scenes (like The Raid had) but then turn around and have Krang & The Technodrome? The tone would be kinda all over the place.

The seriousness of a fight b/t the turtles and the Foot mixed with the 80's cartoon stuff of Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady doesn't seem like it'd work tone-wise.

[Cryomancer]

Just because they come from a humorous show doesn't mean they have to be humorous characters.

[Leo656]

In truth, the way movies work vs. other types of fiction or storytelling, you almost have to have Bebop and Rocksteady, or some kind of analog, in place to present a credible physical threat to the Turtles. The Foot aren't enough at all; ninjas in movies have been useless, faceless cannon fodder since the 70s. Guys in black footsie pajamas can NOT do the bulk of the action and fight scenes in a major motion picture, they're not a credible threat to a quartet of giant reptiles doing spin kicks. They're visually boring, and on film they're historically inept.

I mean yeah, it worked with the first movie *basically*, but even in that one these "highly-skilled warriors" were just more meat for the grinder. The only credible threat we were shown was, not coincidentally, the most visually-arresting villain with action figure potential.

I think adding Bebop and Rocksteady could up the potential for exciting fight scenes in the movie 1000%, as long as they weren't played *just* for laughs. I think that's what bugs people the most about them, they're stupid. They look freakin' creepy as hell, if they were played sadistic, sinister, or just bat-sh*t crazy, they'd be A-List villains. It'd be like the Turtles trying to fight a tag-team of Banes, without the intellect but with all the brute force. I'd LOVE to see that, honestly. And they're a better fit for a movie than "Random Ninja #27.

I cite as further evidence "Superman II"; I think it's a kinda dumb movie overall, especially compared to the first one (or The Donner Cut) but it's many people's favorite based solely on the fight with Zod and the Phantom Zone villains. See also, many fans' complaint towards "Superman Returns" that "Superman didn't even hit anyone", compared to X-Men 3, released around the same time, which made lots of money despite being generally awful, short on logic but heavy on fight scenes.

The lesson we take away from this in relation to movies is, "People like to see people/things fight similar people/things." If Bebop and Rocksteady are in the movie, it may lose points for faithfulness to the source material, but I predict it will also make lots of money. Which is equally important.

[Galactus]

In truth, the way movies work vs. other types of fiction or storytelling, you almost have to have Bebop and Rocksteady, or some kind of analog, in place to present a credible physical threat to the Turtles. The Foot aren't enough at all; ninjas in movies have been useless, faceless cannon fodder since the 70s. Guys in black footsie pajamas can NOT do the bulk of the action and fight scenes in a major motion picture, they're not a credible threat to a quartet of giant reptiles doing spin kicks. They're visually boring, and on film they're historically inept.

I mean yeah, it worked with the first movie *basically*, but even in that one these "highly-skilled warriors" were just more meat for the grinder. The only credible threat we were shown was, not coincidentally, the most visually-arresting villain with action figure potential.

I think adding Bebop and Rocksteady could up the potential for exciting fight scenes in the movie 1000%, as long as they weren't played *just* for laughs. I think that's what bugs people the most about them, they're stupid. They look freakin' creepy as hell, if they were played sadistic, sinister, or just bat-sh*t crazy, they'd be A-List villains. It'd be like the Turtles trying to fight a tag-team of Banes, without the intellect but with all the brute force. I'd LOVE to see that, honestly. And they're a better fit for a movie than "Random Ninja #27.

I cite as further evidence "Superman II"; I think it's a kinda dumb movie overall, especially compared to the first one (or The Donner Cut) but it's many people's favorite based solely on the fight with Zod and the Phantom Zone villains. See also, many fans' complaint towards "Superman Returns" that "Superman didn't even hit anyone", compared to X-Men 3, released around the same time, which made lots of money despite being generally awful, short on logic but heavy on fight scenes.

The lesson we take away from this in relation to movies is, "People like to see people/things fight similar people/things." If Bebop and Rocksteady are in the movie, it may lose points for faithfulness to the source material, but I predict it will also make lots of money. Which is equally important.

As you pointed out the first movie did well enough with faceless Foot Ninja which also had Tatsu and built up to The Shredder.

The second movie spent most of it's time setting up two mutants that we got two very unsatisfying fights with. Now I would trust that a modern movie could deliver a better a TMNT vs mutant fight but at the end the mutants be they Tokka and Rahzar, Bebop and Rocksteady or Dogpound and Fishface I would wager would still be unsatisying. Particularly if it was the Fred Wolf characters, they arn't going to kill off poor Bebop & Rocky :(:(:( What would those 30 years old that arn't going to watch the movie think. :D

It's not that the idea of introducing other mutants is necessarily a bad one but rather one that I feel is bigger risk to telling a good story. Get the basics right with the first movie and then we can talk about Krang, Groundchuck anc co.

[Leo656]

Hah, story. Awesome.

Nah, it's a toy commercial, bro. The first flick is as grounded as we're ever gonna see with TMNT. And it's also been done, too.

They know what they're doing. It may not be the movie everyone wants to see, although some people might, but they're going to take every step they can to make it bring in money. That very likely means big fights with other mutants with action figure potential. I'll be kinda shocked if we don't get that.

[Bob]

^ I do agree with a lot of what you’ve said here and in the other thread.

This film obviously isn’t going to be cheap. For Paramount to delay its release in order to get the budget down (I don't believe it was completely down to them "not liking the script"), it means that they’re probably still going to end up spending a lot on it once it finally hits production. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if, by that time, they don’t end up spending what they originally were going to spend before they shut it down.

As a result of all that they have to make sure they deliver a film that will get as many bums on seats as possible, and not just cheeks belonging to TMNT fans. Got to ask yourself, what kinds of films have been doing well in the last few years? I can think of the Transformers films, (nearly all) superhero films and fantasy films. I just don’t think a “street level” TMNT movie like the first film would be received well by a modern audience. They’ve shown (domestically and, probably more importantly in this day and age, abroad) that they like sci-fi and fantasy and big action. All the Fred Wolfe subject matter gives the makers an ideal opportunity to fill the film with all that crowd-pleasing stuff, but at the same time keeping it a TMNT film.

Also, I fully expect a 3D film. I will actually be shocked if its not.

[Xav]

The lesson we take away from this in relation to movies is, "People like to see people/things fight similar people/things." If Bebop and Rocksteady are in the movie, it may lose points for faithfulness to the source material, but I predict it will also make lots of money. Which is equally important.What would be similar to the Turtles would be other skilled ninjas, not a couple of dumb idiots who can't hit anything with their laser guns. Actually what would be most like them would be the Dark Turtles. If you think somehow adding more mutants will add more money, than please explain how the first film made more money than the second?

[Leo656]

Entirely because everything about the first film was made with care, while the second was a cash-in rush job. It had nothing to do with content or villains, it was that they made a bad second film overall. However, I'm pretty sure if Bebop and Rocksteady had been used instead of Tokkah and Rahzar, it would have made even more money, even if every other second of the story was the same. People bitch to this day about Bebop & Rocksteady not being in that.

Keep in mind very few people actually care about the actual "Ninja" part of "Ninja Turtles", and the Turtles' fighting methods usually come across as more "slapstick" than "skilled ninjas" anyway. It's a sci-fi action/comedy they're making, not a sequel to Kung Fu, I doubt they're going to be all accurate and stuff with the fight scenes. Plus, most importantly, the movie needs to have characters for toys to make kids pester their parents for. It's How It Works.

I don't think Bebop and Rocksteady should be done the way they were in the cartoon, I think a more feral/savage take would be more appropriate for a film, and also more credible than an army of ninjas just running into the Turtles to get beat up. I wanna see the guys sweat a bit before they get to Shredder. I wanna see Bebop and Rocksteady all roided out, savage, and able to shrug off any single thing the Turtles can throw. They should be proportionately huge compared to the Turtles, jacked up, feral, and it should take a combined effort to take either one of them down. That's how I'd see it done.

I'm not saying DON'T have the Foot be in the movie, I just think there needs to be an escalation of threat as the film goes on. Ex: The Turtles thrash the Foot convincingly, Shredder unleashes Bebop and Rocksteady, and when they can't get the job done Shredder resorts to taking the Turtles on himself. It's a pretty natural arc for an action film. It could work just as well if they saved any mutant villains for a sequel, but I highly doubt they've committed to a sequel at this point since they can't even figure out what *this* movie is yet. So I think it's more likely they'll cram everything they can think of into the first one.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Personally, I think it would be a good idea to use krang s the main villian first. The Shredder and the foot being the first villian has aready been done in the first live action film, and the general public who remember that film might see it as a rehash. You don't need to keep reguritating the plot for TMNT vol 1, number #1 over and over again in diffrent ways as your first story every time there is a reeboot!:trolleye:

Use krang as the main baddie, have him make mutants like rocksteady and bebop to serve him and fight the turtles. Hint at shredder when splinter tells the flaskback story that explains who they know ninjitsu, then save him for the sequel, like the nolan batman films did with the joker. Have rocksteady and bebop survive when krang and the other mutants are defeated/destroyed, and join Shrdder in the sequel.

[Slap-Happy]

Interesting tweet from a few days ago. (https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/233066416184623105)

[zkarlette]

I think he is playing with our feelings...:-?

[Jester]

I think he is playing with our feelings...:-?
What's it say? I can't see it from here...

EDIT: Nevermind...
So TMNT co-creator Kevin Eastman thinks they knocked the script out of the park, huh? Oh really? Um, well, sorry sir, I strongly disagree!

[Powder]

A. That guy is a dick.
B. What he has isn't even current as of now, right?

[Jester]

A. That guy is a dick.
B. What he has isn't even current as of now, right?
Not sure. Do love how cryptic he's being...lording his "knowledge" over us all. Almost makes you think he's speaking out of his posterior, a'la Ace Ventura.

[Bob]

He does come across like an egomaniacal jock. I’ve been looking at his Twitter page for the past month or so and I’ve lost a lot of respect for him in that time. I do believe that he has got the script, as he’s posted numerous script reviews in the past. I just don’t know why he’s continuously dangling a carrot in front of the donkey, though. It does seem like he’s doing it on purpose, all because of his apparent narcissism. Yeah, he’s not really the kind of person I would freely socialise with. This isn’t an eighty thousand word thesis. It’s a script review. You could knock one up in an hour.

Also, taking into account Eastman’s latest comments, El Mayimbe clearly has a pretty old draft, a draft that’s probably had a lot of work done to it over the past eight weeks since the “shut down”.