Why you should hate Lionsgate for their release treatment of TMNT

[GodzFire]

I've been meaning to post this for awhile now, but never felt like there was another person's comments which summed things up so well until I saw Leo656's post in the 'Lionsgate to announce their next TMNT 87 DVD later this month!' thread:

The sets for the OT weren't done the way they should have been by far. I love that we (eventually) got all the episodes and it's possible to own the complete entire series - that really is more than many shows get - but it was done haphazardly. Yeah some eps were out of order and some sets looked crummy because they crammed so much into them, but that didn't bother me much really. Not even the screwy packaging on half the sets bugged me too much; part of me liked the "I wonder what the next set's gonna look like" game, but it did get old quick.

Ultimately the OT definitely takes up too much space; in fact, I have 47 TMNT DVDs altogether, which means not counting the films there are 30-something DVD sets on my shelf representing a grand total of TWO television shows. Looking at it all at once is overwhelming and almost a tiny bit depressing. Plus, was there any REAL reason to drag the OT releases out over an entire decade? No show does that, not even a show with a comparable number of episodes. I'm glad we got what we eventually got, but it was NOT how it should have been done.

Masters of the Universe. She-Ra. New Adventures of He-Man. Even Masters of the Universe 2K3. Within a 2-3 year span, EVERY He-Man cartoon episode ever made was released on DVD, adding up to FAR more episodes than the TMNT series, in beautiful set cases with amazing artwork, arrangements, trading cards, documentaries, booklets containing detailed descriptions of EVERY episode IN ORDER (which they even corrected from how the series first aired on TV), and spine artwork on the cases that becomes one long inter-connected mural when the sets are collected, which looks terrific on a shelf. It probably took years to get it all in one place, but once they did, the entire thing was released in a timely manner and the final product was MORE than any sane person could ever have asked for or expected. In my opinion, it is the single greatest example of how to release a series on DVD, especially a very large one. Yes, it's really 4 different shows but it is meant to sit on a shelf as one huge collection, and each show's set is in the same style as the others, and it works brilliantly. And, for bonus points, it doesn't take up a huge amount of space. It's big, but it's not sloppy-looking or cumbersome like the TMNT series is when put in order on a shelf.

That's how the old TMNT series SHOULD have been done. I'm satisfied with what we got, because we really got a lot more than I expected (Seasons 1-3, maybe a few scattershot "Volumes" with random eps and that's all) and it's great TMNT gets to be a "complete" series. It's just that the way they did it was f*cking inexcusably terrible. It shouldn't have been this hard.

THIS. I honestly could forgive Lionsgate for the long release schedule, the lack of extras, the mediocre artwork and packaging, and EVEN missing the 3 episodes and wait to release till the final release; I would have forgiven ALL of that had the episodes been actually remastered from their original sources for best possible picture, but they didn't. Instead they took some piss poor VHS quality tapes and sound and gave us that, (it still enrages me that some of the releases actually had Full Frame Video and 2.0 Audio as 'Special Features'). Another slap in the face includes their pathetic failure at extras. With the SHEER amount of potential material available: Turtle Tips, toy commericals, voice cast interviews, production crew interviews, and the music of TMNT, we were treated to what I feel was a slapped together mis-mash of material, including the laughable 'How to bake a pizza'.......please......

That is why I have no respect at all for Lionsgate and HATE it when people gush over the releases like 'well at least we got them' or 'be glad we got what we did'. No, no. You don't see other series with the amount of popularity and longevity TMNT had being treated that way. It's a disgrace to my childhood and each and every one of you should be insulted as well.

[Cure]

What a whining ingrate.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Sigh...

Honestly, your quote complains about them taking up too much space, but then says he wishes the quality was better?
Higher quality means bigger file size which means more dvd's.

You should be glad we finally finished getting all the OT episodes.

[themaxonline]

I personally don't necessarily disagree. When thinking about it, it took over 8 years for the whole series to finally come out. I was 20 when the first DVD came out. My initial fandom didn't even last that long when I was a kid. I started to watch the original cartoon when I was 6 and was done when I was 10.

I won't complain about the packaging or anything like that though. I think it looks lovely on my shelf. Not as consistant as I'd like but it suits me fine. I think the long gaps between releases is what gets me the most.

At the end of the day though, I think that there has been a lot of complaining over the entire DVD releases and I personally am just glad that it's actually going to be finished and that I'm still interested in watching the whole series. Despite the things that we deem wrong, I think we should just be satisfied that they didn't give up halfway through. I've never seen so many comments about how unhappy and how terrible things are. The series is going to be completely on DVD.

[KROW]

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[pannoni1]

I feel like if I graded my treatment of the entire series, I would give it a B-. First off, having every episode, including the uncut European Vacation episodes that were never shown uncut in the US was quite telling. We still got some special features (including in Season 10's), that most CASUAL fans would be more than pleased with, which is why we have projects such as Turtledoc to satisfy the hardcore fans. Compared to the 4kids DVDs, the episodes are in reasonable order and in fewer volumes despite having more episodes. The sound quality is fantastic in addition. Since most of the people behind Lionsgate on these releases never worked with Fred Wolf or Playmates, I'd say they still did a fairly decent job considering the relative lack of information on this series, and part of the job was thanks to our help, as fans, for our support. Sure there were some problems, such as the video quality at times, but part of the fun of releasing the set over a longer period of time means that it gives us a chance to grow, as a longer journey is far more rewarding than a short one, and reaching the destination is always a moment to celebrate.

[Cipher]

You're buying a budget release of an enormously long, 15 year-old children's cartoon that looks like ... a budget release of an enormously long, 15-year-old children's cartoon.

Seriously, you can expect more, but it just isn't realistic. The fact we even got the entire series out on DVD is nothing short of a miracle.

And while I've heard there are better masters out there (the German releases apparently use them), I'll eat my hat if we ever see anyone decide it's profitable to go through and remaster 190+ episodes of this.

As for extras, while, sure, they never picked the low-hanging fruits of Turtle-Tips or toy commercials, they did produce new interviews with writers, voice actors, Kevin Eastman and Fred Wolf himself scattered over these sets. David Wise is particularly candid, and plenty of the information was stuff even die-hard Turtle fans had never heard (seriously, go rewatch those; you'll be surprised at how informative they are). That's a perfectly respectable offering, I'd say, and more than a lot of companies would do.

You don't see other series with the amount of popularity and longevity TMNT had being treated that way. Would you care to name, like, three other children's series more than ten years old that have had DVD releases so substantially better they make this one look like garbage?

It could totally have been better, but nothing about this was a travesty.

[sdp]

The Lionsgate releases suck, I see no reason to thank them for doing the bare minimum in their releases. I am paying for the product, I shouldn't be "thankful" for releasing it.

It's good we got the entire show but that's about it. We deserved something more.

[Storm Eagle]

It's a disgrace to my childhood and each and every one of you should be insulted as well.

But...what if I'm not?

[CyberCubed]

The Lionsgate releases were fine. The only problem I had was them skipping the two episodes on the Season 5 set, but its been rectified now on the Season 10 DVD.

The cover art for most of them after the Season 3 sets are fine. All the episodes are pretty much in order with a few minor aspects here and there. And they DID get us interviews with the VA's for the Turtles, Shredder and Krang. So I don't see the point in complaining.

Now taking 8 years to release the series was definitely ridiculous, but at least we did get all the episodes.

[Jephael]

I'm glad to see you're finally content, CyberCubed. Sadly it seems they can't please everybody.

[Jester]

Series NOT completed on DVD:
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50290_14175013094_7996983_n.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Talespin.jpg/250px-Talespin.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/Darkwing_duck.jpg/250px-Darkwing_duck.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/38/ChipDaleLogo.jpg/250px-ChipDaleLogo.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/DuckTales_%28Main_title%29.jpg/300px-DuckTales_%28Main_title%29.jpghttp://sharetv.org/images/pinky_and_the_brain-show.jpg
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/11773922/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn
Just saying. We're pretty lucky, TMNT even got all almost 200 episodes on DVD.

[CyberCubed]

Yes, the 4kids DVDs are a mess because episodes are out of order, there are DVDs with only like 5 episodes on it, and the last season never came out in the U.S.

The 4kids series is the one that needs a re-release by Shout, but Lionsgate isn't bad.

[Powder]

The releases aren't perfect obviously, but they're pretty good and we're lucky to have them all. You're being brats.

[CyberCubed]

The releases aren't perfect obviously, but they're pretty good and we're lucky to have them all. You're being brats.

Agreed. A few years ago we didn't even think we'd get the whole series.

I was always worried they would stop halfway through at like Season 5 or something.

[Archon_Turtle]

Wooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddsssssss

Seriously, I got about 2 sentences in before my brain melted.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Don't you people understand? We Turtle fans should be getting shoulder rubs and oral relief with our dvd sets! As a fan I'm insulted!

[themaxonline]

Don't you people understand? We Turtle fans should be getting shoulder rubs and oral relief with our dvd sets! As a fan I'm insulted!

LOL!

Yeah, I don't get it. In what way do we deserve more? The DVDs already contain more than what was originally aired on TV. Bonus content, interviews, etc. I'd have been satisfied if they just put the DVDs in plainly labeled boxed with a simple episode list accompanying each one, as long as they were all readable by my DVD player. I've really no qualms at all other than the releasing scheduling but looking back, it no longer matters.

I say we take a moment and remember all of the shows listed a few posts above mine whose series wasn't finished in DVD format. I'll also add Captain Planet to that as well. I have Season 1 on DVD and apparently there are 6 more seasons that won't be released.

[gobo]

In what way do we deserve more?
Turtle-fans make the world go 'round. That's how. :tshifty:

[joe-eyeball]

There really isn't a whole lot to complain about. The big mistake is being fixed in the season 10 release. They didn't do what many on these boards thought they were going to by releasing a complete series set while foregoing a season 10 release forcing a double dip. Also a real laugher for me is people who complain about episode order. There are threads dedicated to people arguing what the proper episode order is anyhow, so what if its a little off. Be happy with what we got. Also, what's to stop them from eventually releasing a revamped complete series set with additional features.

[LeoNerdo]

I am perfectly happy with what I am getting from Lionsgate. Otherwise I wouldn't have been buying every set as they were released. The ONLY thing I wish was different about the sets we got are those first 6 Volumes, well really 2 through 6, had some artifacting issues due to the compression used to fit 12-13 episodes on a disc. Otherwise I am completely content.

[saul]

I got some of the American DVD's, but once I found out about the much better quality of the German versions (which are in English), I spent the extra money to import them from ebay. So I agree, the mastering really should have been much better. It's so grainy, artifact-ed and with bad interlacing that it's hard to get into the show sometimes. That's not how a cartoon should look.

Also, while on the topic, what ever happened to the awesome box art that they did for the original VHS tapes? That stuff was great! It was original and had a quality about it that really drew you in. Now we just have crappy recycled stock images they keep re-using.

[Leo656]

I'm "happy" that we got what we got, but not "completely satisfied" because even what we got could have been done better. I'm thrilled we got the entire series, one way or the other, but a show with the cultural relevance of TMNT really should have been put together with more TLC.

Cipher: All three He-Man shows, She-Ra, Thundercats, Speed Racer, Voltron, Batman: The Animated Series, Transformers, G.I. Joe. The Legend Of Zelda. Super Mario Bros. Super Show. Captain N: The Game Master. They don't exactly make TMNT's sets "look like garbage", but every single one of them was done 100x better. Voltron actually improved the show significantly from the way it first aired on American TV.

If there wasn't a precedent for other shows, mostly shows I like LESS than TMNT, all getting MUCH better DVD treatment, I'm sure I (and others) might be a little more enthusiastic about the "We Don't Give A F*ck" way they put out the OT. Glad we got it all? You bet'cha! Given that it's a sort of popular show, I'm less forgiving that it took a decade to get "just" all the episodes. Really I could care less about extras, more the fact it took 10 years and was put together with an obvious lack of care.

They've put out the entire Speed Racer series like 3 times in the time it took to put out TMNT. That's just stupid. It doesn't make me "hate" LionsGate, but I do wish someone else had done the DVDs. Any of "the usual suspects" who actually know what fans want in a DVD collection would have been fine.

[FoxZerro]

Series NOT completed on DVD:
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50290_14175013094_7996983_n.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Talespin.jpg/250px-Talespin.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/Darkwing_duck.jpg/250px-Darkwing_duck.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/38/ChipDaleLogo.jpg/250px-ChipDaleLogo.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/DuckTales_%28Main_title%29.jpg/300px-DuckTales_%28Main_title%29.jpghttp://sharetv.org/images/pinky_and_the_brain-show.jpg
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/11773922/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=snJust saying. We're pretty lucky, TMNT even got all almost 200 episodes on DVD.

Jester just seeing this post hurts so much. Gargoyles most of all. Releasing the weaker start of Season Two but none of the greatness that was the Avalon World Tour or Hunter's Moon just sucks. Plus I hate when they do half a release and I'm stuck with a Volume One sitting on my shelf that will never see its Brother in a Volume Two.

When you put it like that, sure it took some time but at least for Turtles every single episode is out. Plus just because you were a fan doesn't mean you have to go out and buy it. You buy one dvd of the show and turns out you don't like it or think its worth the price of admission then you just stop buying them and don't go complaining about it. Life if too short.

[Cipher]

Cipher: All three He-Man shows, She-Ra, Thundercats, Speed Racer, Voltron, Batman: The Animated Series, Transformers, G.I. Joe. The Legend Of Zelda. Super Mario Bros. Super Show. Captain N: The Game Master. They don't exactly make TMNT's sets "look like garbage", but every single one of them was done 100x better. Voltron actually improved the show significantly from the way it first aired on American TV.I own several of the series in that list, and was pretty sure they'd come up. And to be fair, maybe three was too low a number.

But look at those titles: Two are flagship Hasbro properties (which are at the top of pop-culture right now), one is a flagship DC property (which is in pretty much the same place), and except for the He-Man franchise, all the others are significantly shorter than TMNT (Batman and Transformers hitting the higher end with 120 and 98 episodes, respectively).

Also, I own the Speed Racer discs and I'm not sure what you're talking about. They're bare-bones and, while the masters are probably better than the TMNT sets, they still cram more than 10 episodes onto each disc. (And aren't the Mario and Zelda releases bare-bones as well?)

Finally, even the big guns aren't immune to minimal sets and poor footage. Shout! Factory was able to do a pretty pristine Transformers release because it's an A1 title and they had good material to work from, but the three Takara series still look like garbage because all they were able to do was slap the old VHS-quality footage onto Region 1 sets, 8-9 episodes per disc. And I've read that while the Sunbow G.I. Joe series looks great, the DiC sets show their age pretty badly.

TMNT passes the mark fairly well. Their schedule was weird, but I can't stress how lucky we are they didn't drop the line altogether after one season of less-than-expected sales. They went above what most of the "usual suspects" would do and, after the whole "volume" thing, gave us monsters like season four all in one set for the same retail price. The masters aren't good, but it's pretty par for the course to just work with what you can get your hands on for animation this old. And we got extras; fairly decent ones at that.

It's just hard for me to moan about what this release could/should have been when there's nothing terribly wrong with what it is.

[Jephael]

The releases aren't perfect obviously, but they're pretty good and we're lucky to have them all. You're being brats.

OMG, thank you for stating this! I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Andrew NDB]

The releases aren't perfect obviously, but they're pretty good and we're lucky to have them all. You're being brats.

Gotta agree with Powder.

Though it's not entirely apples to apples, it reminds me a bit of the fervor against George Lucas about him not ever releasing the original trilogy untouched on DVD. George finally did, and people still to this day either whine about him not doing so or remaining like ignorant that he ever did.

[Cowabunga Carl]

It never bothered me we didn't get a bunch of extras on the DVDs. I mean watching through it again, started tonight since I'm at home sick, it really isn't that bad. I mean for a cartoon that is as old as it is it looks good.

I'm sure that like most of you I'm watching it on a HD tv and Blu-Ray player. You're going to notice all the flaws simply because the animation wasn't made for HD. They could have spent the money to clean it up, but why should they when they know that people will still buy them.

[CyberCubed]

Just two years ago I had to watch Seasons 9 and 10 online in blurry video quality with Swedish subtitles because I didn't think Lionsgate would ever release the last two seasons.

Now thanks to the DVDs, I don't have to do that.

[Jester]

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/1/17/Zoidberg.pngYour DVD releases are bad and you should feel bad!

[Leo656]

:lol: Good stuff. Good ol' Zoidberg.

Cipher: You're right to a point about a lot of that, but current trends or popularity aside, I'd simply argue that at LEAST as many people, if not many, many more (I would assume) watched the old TMNT cartoon as did He-Man, Batman etc., and as such, I think fans could be forgiven for wanting a *tiny* bit better than what we got for this show.

And you're right how a lot of those other series were "bare-bones", but my point in listing those was that even as bare-bones, stripped down releases, those shows 1: Looked great as far as overall, cohesive presentation of the product (yes, that includes packaging etc... c'mon, how the hell did they manage to present f*cking CAPTAIN N as something special? I'unno, but they did.), and 2: My biggest pet peeve and the one "Unforgiveable Sin", that nobody sane can defend, 8 YEARS for it all? Sooooo not necessary, soooo annoying, soooo obviously LionsGate simply going,"What, Ninja Turtles? Didn't we put that out already? What, there's MORE? (sigh) Okay, just toss one'a those $10 discs out there. If there's any left to put out, let 'em wait another year, who cares?"

Again, I'm not totally pissed because we DID get more than most shows do, BUT I hold TMNT to a higher standard than shows like DuckTales, Chip & Dale, etc., because those shows weren't half as popular or as culturally relevant. It would be simply unacceptable for TMNT *not* to get a full series release. And I don't believe in saying "Good job doing what you're supposed to do." They SHOULD have put out the complete series, and they did; fine, BUT they should have taken 2 years AT MOST and had set cases that actually looked like they were part of the same series. Not that hard, been done before.

[ZariusTwo]

You sure Rescue Rangers isnt as relevant? It was practically the prototype for the furry fanbase and it's fanon is more well known than it's actual canon.

[gobo]

The releases aren't perfect obviously, but they're pretty good and we're lucky to have them all. You're being brats.
Whoa, waitaminute... You're saying TMNT-fans don't deserve everything and more? :teek: Bad fan! How can you live with yourself?

Seriously though, I totally agree with you.

[Leo656]

Zarius, I love me some Rescue Rangers. but I'm pretty sure TMNT had a lot more cultural relevance. It was on for a lot longer and was much more heavily merchandized than most shows, way more than Rescue Rangers. Even people who never watched it were and are still aware of it to some degree, people who never watched RR generally don't have any idea what it is.

I wish they'd finish that damn show, though.

[RossMay]

saul: You ask a good question about the boxart for the VHS releases by Family Home Entertainment. Lionsgate can't use them because they were the property of Mirage, and now Viacom. Copyright creates so many funny (and sometimes sad) situations, considering that artwork was made especially for the cartoon, but then it was off-limits to releases of the cartoon.

To this discussion in general, I see the problems with the DVD releases but am likewise happy the whole series is out. There are some cartoons that got better treatment; as a fan I'm still giddy at the Real Ghostbusters DVD set (that I contributed to in a small way). It's all in one convenient and great looking box set and came with interviews and extras. Even it's not perfect (a few discs are at incorrect speeds) but it's one of the best DVD collections I know of, certainly for 1980s cartoons.