Will the Nick show overshadow IDW's Turtles?

[CyberCubed]

As we know, there are two new Turtle universes going on at the same time, IDW's new rebooted TMNT comics and the Nick cartoon.

While IDW had one year of no competition due to starting back in 2011, now the Nick show seems to be taking primary spotlight due to being on TV.

Do you think the Nick show will overshadow IDW's universe?

[Jester]

Different Turtles for different demographics, IDW's book will be fine.

[ToTheNines]

Lol, wut...

You really misused the word competition there. Coexisting TMNT universes do nothing but promote one another.

[CyberCubed]

Well that's not exactly true, while us hardcore TMNT fans will watch both, I wonder if those people following the IDW comics for the last year will check out the cartoon beyond one or two episodes.

According to sales, each issue of IDW TMNT is selling roughly 19,000+ copies a month...I wonder if those 19,000+ people are actually going to watch the show.

[ToTheNines]

Just because every single person isn't into both doesn't mean they're competing for viewers/readers.


Stupid thread.

[Andrew NDB]

You really misused the word competition there. Coexisting TMNT universes do nothing but promote one another.

To a certain extent yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. But the mass media exposure the cartoon is getting -- even if it's very much for 5 year-olds -- with the kind of... light (I'm being charitable here) material it is does sort of set the clock back even further than it already was on, you know, people readily being prepared for any kind of TMNT material in larger media that's made for anyone above the age of like 9. So it hurts things in that way.

Well that's not exactly true, while us hardcore TMNT fans will watch both, I wonder if those people following the IDW comics for the last year will check out the cartoon beyond one or two episodes.

I wasn't planning on it (stop the presses, right?). But apparently I'm doing some sort of podcast which will force me to watch it.

[Mr.Turtle]

Just because every single person isn't into both doesn't mean they're competing for viewers/readers.


Stupid thread.

for once, i hav to agree with this.

[sdp]

Comics are a dying niche entertainment medium, so it's irrelevant.

[Mr.Turtle]

do u think they will skip comic and make animation directly in the future?

[CyberCubed]

I wasn't planning on it (stop the presses, right?). But apparently I'm doing some sort of podcast which will force me to watch it.

You should at least watch the 1 hour debut on Sept. 29th, just to get the feel of the show and what its about. :)

Anyway if this show is successful which it should be, it'll probably go on for at least a 7 season run. Since Nick owns TMNT 100%...they would never cancel their own production unless they discover they're not making any money off it...and $60 million purchase + advertising + development costs for the show will take some time to get back.

[Donnie]

Comics are a dying niche entertainment medium, so it's irrelevant.

Er, yeah...because that makes sense. Comics have been going since the 30s. How are you going to justify that bombastic claim?

[Mr.Turtle]

how they r gonna kno whether it will sell or not if they dont have comics made in advance? animations is way more costly than comics!

[Hero]

I'd alternate between both like I used to, but...

I'll be more drawn to the show since I cannot get the comics here anymore.

[Andrew NDB]

Er, yeah...because that makes sense. Comics have been going since the 30s. How are you going to justify that bombastic claim?

Unfortunately sdp is not incorrect... but comics as we know them still have some life left in them yet.

[Jester]

We talking the end of print media and the rise of digitized books/comics?

[Andrew NDB]

We talking the end of print media and the rise of digitized books/comics?

I don't believe digitized comics will ever catch on in a huge way, ever. Perhaps full-length digitized graphic novels, but not serialized monthly comics as we know them.

[ZariusTwo]

EVERYTHING overshadows IDW's universe. That book is, and always will be, a niche book for geeky brand loyalists.

[Vincent]

As we know, there are two new Turtle universes going on at the same time, IDW's new rebooted TMNT comics and the Nick cartoon.

While IDW had one year of no competition due to starting back in 2011, now the Nick show seems to be taking primary spotlight due to being on TV.

Do you think the Nick show will overshadow IDW's universe?

I'm sorry to bring back something I've already talked about in another thread but...
"Batman: The Brave and the Bold."
I think today's audiences are generally savvy enough to understand that some properties can be done in different tones and still be done well, as long as the core is respected and the execution is solid.

[Candy Kappa]

EVERYTHING overshadows IDW's universe. That book is, and always will be, a niche book for geeky brand loyalists.

wow replace IDW with Mirage and the post will be every post you usually make

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

Nick show will not overshadow IDW Turtles. What will happen is the exactly opposite. More people will learn about the IDW TMNT comics because of the succes of the show.

[Leo656]

Andrew: People like you and I, who would probably like a darker and more "mature" take on TMNT (although yours would be darker than mine, I'd imagine), I think we lost the "war" for the "soul" of TMNT a long time ago and it's never gonna change. It's officially a "Kids' Property", now and forever. No changing it. I gave up, just gonna enjoy what I can in what I'm given, since the alternative would be only to stop caring about TMNT entirely, which I refuse to do.

Ugh, I sound like a WWE mark. Ah well, s'truth.

[ToTheNines]

Turtles writer Kenny Byerly throws in his 2 cents.

"#TMNT fans on Technodrome forum ask: Will Nick Turtles overshadow IDW comics' version? For Nick's sake, they ****ing better."

[Newton Gimmick]

Nick's cartoon has already overshadowed IDW's comic. More people know about the Nick cartoon now than will EVER know about the IDW comic. One 5 second commercial on Nickelodeon reached more viewers than IDW will sell TMNT issues of comics in the next 20 years.

It's not really a big deal though. They're not competing. In many ways the cartoon will expose the characters to new fresh faces and maybe even reach some old familiar ones who forgot about the Turtles. Those people may seek out comics and low and behold, they'll likely find the IDW stuff.

So it's kind of a win-win.

No different than the Mirage/OT stuff except this time we probably won't have as much backlash from the "they ruined my gritty adult comic book" people, because the Turtles have had two very distinct brands for decades now: A small adult niche one and a massive kids mainstream one.

[pannoni1]

Nick's cartoon has already overshadowed IDW's comic. More people know about the Nick cartoon now than will EVER know about the IDW comic. One 5 second commercial on Nickelodeon reached more viewers than IDW will sell TMNT issues of comics in the next 20 years.

It's not really a big deal though. They're not competing. In many ways the cartoon will expose the characters to new fresh faces and maybe even reach some old familiar ones who forgot about the Turtles. Those people may seek out comics and low and behold, they'll likely find the IDW stuff.

So it's kind of a win-win.

No different than the Mirage/OT stuff except this time we probably won't have as much backlash from the "they ruined my gritty adult comic book" people, because the Turtles have had two very distinct brands for decades now: A small adult niche one and a massive kids mainstream one.

Don't forget the movie brand, which is sort of either independent of its self, or a hybrid of the two brands described above. In any case, I would hope Nick would actually entice more young people to pick up IDW later on, just like how I've picked up Mirage. If it weren't for the licensing of the TMNT back then, we probably wouldn't have had Return To New York, City at War, or all the other great storylines through the rest of Volume 1. The target audience for Nick simply won't find IDW age appropriate, though they might pick up a new incarnation of Adventures, similar to what Archie did for the OT. Please refer to the why the TMNT franchise is similar to Batman thread for a greater perspective. The main difference now is that the franchise is multi-generational. The moms and dads who watch Nick's series will perhaps enjoy the show with their kids, and the kids will really see this series as "home" to them, but the parents' will always see the OT or perhaps the 4kids series as "their home TMNT cartoon". Anyways, you do see Nickelodeon's logo in IDW issues, whereas you never saw MWS/4kids logo in Mirage's issues on the inside cover, which means that the comic and the cartoon have a better relationship than Mirage ever did with Fred Wolf/Lloyd Goldfine.

[ToTheNines]

Anyways, you do see Nickelodeon's logo in IDW issues, whereas you never saw MWS/4kids logo in Mirage's issues on the inside cover, which means that the comic and the cartoon have a better relationship than Mirage ever did with Fred Wolf/Lloyd Goldfine.

Mirage had a great relationship with Lloyd Goldfine. 4kids stuff was advertised in the Mirage books during the 2000's all the time.

[Allio]

Well animated shows do get more lime light than their comic counterparts, because there are those that like to watch more than read... hence why some don't like to watch subbed anime... I don't think I found out about the mirage comics until 2008 I believe

[TurtleMaster4]

Comics are a dying niche entertainment medium, so it's irrelevant.

How in the world are comics dying, sure most people get their stuff from tv now, but comics dying, no way, i'm a teenager and all, and i'm totally into comics, how is comics dying?

[Mr.Turtle]

EVERYTHING overshadows IDW's universe. That book is, and always will be, a niche book for geeky brand loyalists.

wut r u talkin abt? be specific.

[CyberCubed]

Turtles writer Kenny Byerly throws in his 2 cents.

"#TMNT fans on Technodrome forum ask: Will Nick Turtles overshadow IDW comics' version? For Nick's sake, they ****ing better."

LOL, this comment is hilarious. I guess he means the show needs to do really well to stay on the air as opposed to a monthly comic. lol.

[Mr.Turtle]

Turtles writer Kenny Byerly throws in his 2 cents.

"#TMNT fans on Technodrome forum ask: Will Nick Turtles overshadow IDW comics' version? For Nick's sake, they ****ing better."

why Kenny Byerly ?

[CyberCubed]

And here we are nearly 2 years later, and it did exactly just that.

[snake]

And here we are nearly 2 years later, and it did exactly just that.

Do you plot things out like this? Becuase this isn't the first time you've dug up a thread to say "x years later, y"

[Donatello19]

And here we are nearly 2 years later, and it did exactly just that.

Can't say I'm surprised. I mean, I never read the IDW comics and I'm sure they're great, but let's face it...there's no way a comic can stand a chance to an animated series with tons of advertising, merchandising and an entire action figure line...popularity wise, of course.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I think the Nick show has overshadowed it because more kids watch TV than they read comics. But if the show is doing well, maybe kids will discover the comics through their parents. Plus, IDW's doing Animated Adventures, which is based on the Nick show so if kids want to, they can go and get those comic books. I've never read any of the comics, but that doesn't mean I won't get into them one day.

[Candy Kappa]

A cartoon more popular then the comic!?

I'm shocked :roll:

[JTH]

People are supposed to be surprised by this?

Comics are at their lowest readerships ever...

The comic industry is essentially dead compared to say 10-20 years ago because they completely ignored the 8-14 age demographic, and weren't building new fans.

The same age group show intends to attract...

[BabyTurtles]

cartoons are more viewed than comics.....I'm sure.

[Shark_Blade]

They already have.

Plus the art in IDW comic is inconsistent which constantly waiver my enjoyment. Sometimes Splinter looks ugly and fat (forget the artist's name but Splinter looks like Chinese), and mooncalfe's art.. turtles looking too much like cuddly teddy bears didn't really do it for me. It's only good in small dosages.

[CyberCubed]

I think its odd the IDW comic isn't more popular. Looking over the sales thread in the comic section, each issues sells roughly 16,000 copies. That means there are more or less 16,000 people (give or take, some people buy the same issue more than once for alternate covers), following it every month.

If it continues on like this the IDW TMNT universe might be the least popular universe overall. Even the Archie series sold gangbusters in its heyday, as well as the early Mirage issues.

[JTH]

I think its odd the IDW comic isn't more popular. Looking over the sales thread in the comic section, each issues sells roughly 16,000 copies. That means there are more or less 16,000 people (give or take, some people buy the same issue more than once for alternate covers), following it every month.

If it continues on like this the IDW TMNT universe might be the least popular universe overall. Even the Archie series sold gangbusters in its heyday, as well as the early Mirage issues.
As I stated, the comic industry is dead...and it has been for quite a while.

[NinjaPug]

Do those 16,000 copies include e-sales? I'd imagine more and more people are buying their comics digitally these days.

[ToTheNines]

Do those 16,000 copies include e-sales? I'd imagine more and more people are buying their comics digitally these days.

They do not. And they also don't count the people who wait for the trade paperback collections either.

[CyberCubed]

As I stated, the comic industry is dead...and it has been for quite a while.

If the comic industry was dead, I severely doubt any companies not named DC or Marvel would still exist.

Obviously IDW, Image, Dark Horse, etc. are still making money if they're in the industry. If noone was truly buying comics anymore we'd probably see them all go bankrupt and only DC and Marvel would be around.

[Gabriel GP]

If the comic industry was dead, I severely doubt any companies not named DC or Marvel would still exist.

Obviously IDW, Image, Dark Horse, etc. are still making money if they're in the industry. If noone was truly buying comics anymore we'd probably see them all go bankrupt and only DC and Marvel would be around.

Well, this isn't so far from truth. The comic industry already is a monopoly of Marvael and DC, the others companies are so little compared to those two. When jth said that the comic industry is dead. He wasn't lying. Just compare the profits that all the companies had in the past and what they have now. They are fighting for survival now. What is very sad, since most of the original source of almost every kind of entertainment that we have on television, came from books and comics.

[Konchadunga]

To be fair, IDW was a runaway success a few years ago. It was carving out a big niche for itself as the nostalgic series-based graphic novel company. I haven't kept up with them, but I still see their books in stores, so they must not be doing too badly.

I do think the IDW TMNT book was a letdown, though. On paper, it's attempts to mix elements from disparate universes was admirable, but I just didn't care much for the result; see my posts in its own board for why. I may check it out again some time in the future, though, to see if it moved on from nostalgia-milking.

[CyberCubed]

I do think the IDW TMNT book was a letdown, though. On paper, it's attempts to mix elements from disparate universes was admirable, but I just didn't care much for the result; see my posts in its own board for why. I may check it out again some time in the future, though, to see if it moved on from nostalgia-milking.

Yeah, that's kind of why I switched to the trades for IDW. I was actually getting a bit bored of the book on a monthly basis, but I didn't want to drop it entirely. So now I just wait for the trades so I can read a whole story arc at once.

The IDW comic is pretty good and competently written, it just hasn't done much to officially, "Wow" me yet. Most of it as you said, is mostly nostalgia-milking of past storylines and characters with new twists...and honestly Nick does that better.

[Bossa Nova]

Personally speaking, the IDW series tops the Nick series ten to one. Just like Nickelodeon, they're taking familiar, old elements and making them their own, but unlike Nick, they're doing a VERY good job at it. Where with the show I'm constantly disappointed, let down, or just plain rolling my eyes, IDW, has gripped me, found ways to persuade me to accept ideas I might not have liked before (such as the reincarnation bit), and even helped me to like characters I've never liked before (like the Neutrinos). IDW's original characters are way more interesting and complex than Nick's (Hob and Alopex v. Dogpound and Fishface), and overall I wish this series had been turned into a television show instead.

But, given how comics in general are viewed today compared to a television show on one of the most popular kids networks around, I really can't say I'm surprised Nick is doing better. I wouldn't claim it has 100% correlation to the quality of its product though.

[JTH]

The main problem now a days isn't because kids don't want to read comics, it's because they don't have access to comics.

And no one had better even try to tell me that a comic book store or especially the internet is having access to comics, cause if you think that, you're nuts.

Access to comics is being able to find comics in the general public.

Hell, when I was a kid, there wasn't a comic book store within 70 miles from me, yet I still bought comics all the times. Cause when we were kids, you could go to any Convenient Store, Grocery Store, a K-Mart, or Toys R' Us and buy comics. They were easy to obtain.

It's just not like it was back in the day.

[Leo656]

Sad but true. I had my comic shops I went to every few months for half-price sales and back issue binges, but week-to-week, my go-to was 7-11. Come to think of it, the first time I fell out of collecting in '96, it was mostly because all the 7-11s stopped selling comics. I was kinda broke, too, but that had never stopped me before. After that, for a few years my money went to other forms of entertainment, until as an adult I was able to make the weekly trip to an actual comics shop.

You're right, it isn't the same. I DO see a ton of parents bring their kids to comic shops whenever I'm there, but it's not the same as a kid just walking or riding their bike to the corner store, and beyond that, kids couldn't even afford to collect comics nowadays even if they DID have access. When I was a kid, I could *always* find a buck in change to go buy a comic, even if I was flat broke. $4? No kid can swing that.

Now I hate the current state of the world. Thanks. :(

[Shark_Blade]

The main problem now a days isn't because kids don't want to read comics, it's because they don't have access to comics.



I agree with this. TMNT IDW app is the most useless and dumb app I've ever downloaded. I was excited when I first open the app but not a single comic is viewable or featured. Nope, nada nothing. It is entirely empty. I thought I could buy some comics but they don't care about me.

I suspect this is only for US people, which is DUMB. I have apps from other comic publishers and they work perfectly worldwide, even Dark Horse for Usagi Yojimbo.

If TMNT IDW fails and is cancelled in the not so distant future, I say they are asking for it. They deserve it. Their own fault for not reaching out and making it available for the customers. They can rot for all I care, I have no time to waste over such stupidity. Mere imbeciles.

[LivingMutagen]

I don't think so. They're there own different thing. (oh and btw, I think IDW is one of the most (after Marvel and DC) well-known comic book companies atm, because TMNT, Transformers etc)

[CyberCubed]

I agree with this. TMNT IDW app is the most useless and dumb app I've ever downloaded. I was excited when I first open the app but not a single comic is viewable or featured. Nope, nada nothing. It is entirely empty. I thought I could buy some comics but they don't care about me.

I suspect this is only for US people, which is DUMB. I have apps from other comic publishers and they work perfectly worldwide, even Dark Horse for Usagi Yojimbo.

If TMNT IDW fails and is cancelled in the not so distant future, I say they are asking for it. They deserve it. Their own fault for not reaching out and making it available for the customers. They can rot for all I care, I have no time to waste over such stupidity. Mere imbeciles.

IDW TMNT won't get cancelled anytime soon. Despite not being as popular as the show it's still IDW's second best selling comic overall.

The only thing that could kill the comic is IDW publishing itself going bankrupt but that doesn't look likely either.

[Shark_Blade]

They should do something if they dont want to keep missing out on potential customers and money prospect. People like me.

[IMJ]

They do not. And they also don't count the people who wait for the trade paperback collections either.

LOL! Nothing about that number accurately represents who is reading the book. Just because a comic sells "16,000 copies" does not mean that it has "16,000 buyers" (let alone readers).

Basically, those sales figures are the representation of orders sent to vendors who order the title. I'll tell you now that there is no way in this market that IDW's (an independent publisher) Ninja Turtles book has 16,000 actual readers. You can cut a swath of thousands out of that number just by accounting for LCS overstock ordering, and then an additional swath by accounting for the "stuffing orders" that stores do just to receive variant incentive books such as 1:50 RI covers and so on and so forth.

To be clear about my point here, it's that if the order numbers are 16,000 copies, that actually translates into (and I'm arbitrarily making this number up to illustrate the point) something like 12,500 real copies sold to end-readers like you or I. There is not even close to 16,000 people buying the IDW TMNT book each month.