Help me with my Layouts!

[oldmanwinters]

This is kind of a strange idea for a thread, but as a fan-artist I often hit mental roadblocks in the layout process. Once I get that stage figured out, my art tends to progress much quicker. So, I figured I'd make a thread where I (or anyone else who might want to use it) could turn to the fan art community for advice and ideas.

Here's my first piece: a full page scene based on the "Turtle Tracks" episode were Shredder watches April O'Neil's report on the mysterious ninja crime wave. He then instructs some thugs (including pre-mutated Bebop and Rocksteady) to "silence her."

Currently, I've got three drafts:

Option 1
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/intro2.jpg
Shredder (probably in silhouette and partly covered by his cape) orders the thugs out.
Focus is on the thugs in the foreground. Shredder is obscured in secrecy. April's broadcast provides a bit of light in the darkness.

Option 2
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/introb-option2.jpg
Upper torso of Shredder (possibly in partial silhouette) standing and striking a menacing pose (not quite satisfied with that I had). Background will be pretty much all black with the TV screens of April's broadcast being the only light. Thugs' heads can be see in the front, but they aren't the focus.

Option 3
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/intro2-optionC.jpg
Shredder chillax-es in his chair just like the episode. He's got his computer panel and April's broadcast on the monitors. Perhaps I can also draw some thugs taking orders?

Anyhoo, this isn't so much a "pick your favorite one" contest as much as it is just me trying to get ideas and advice on what might look good.

Any help is appreciated.

BTW, here is an example of the April broadcast that will be appearing on the monitors:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-Prologue1-colorRevised-editulisses31.jpg

[Shreddhead]

I think the first one could work well, but you really need the shading to look good because there is a lot of empty space to fill.

I really like the second one tho. its more dynamic and has a good sense of balance. My money's on that one :D


Nice job on the april one too. The scientist in the back looks like he just walked off a Gary Larson comic. I like.

[oldmanwinters]

I really like the second one tho. its more dynamic and has a good sense of balance. My money's on that one :D


Your feedback is helpful, Shreddhead, do you have any ideas on how I could improve Shredder's "menacing pose" in the 2nd Option?

[BentonGrey]

Hmm, an interesting set of ideas. I think the first one could be really neat, but it would seem to need a bit more, as there is quite a bit of empty space. I think the second one is the way to go. You can try the classic villain pose, right hand lifted up to the sky, left pointing at his minions, or vice-versa. I definitely think that having the Shredder shilouetted by the light from the monitors would be cool.

[oldmanwinters]

Hmm, an interesting set of ideas. I think the first one could be really neat, but it would seem to need a bit more, as there is quite a bit of empty space. I think the second one is the way to go. You can try the classic villain pose, right hand lifted up to the sky, left pointing at his minions, or vice-versa. I definitely think that having the Shredder shilouetted by the light from the monitors would be cool.

Thanks for the extra feedback!

I'm definitely learning towards the 2nd option, and I like your point about the Shredder arm pose. Maybe I can find some reference material for that.

[BentonGrey]

Cool. This is SOMEWHAT similar to what I was talking about, but without the pointing hand.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/154/1/0/Shredder_by_Mystic_Forces.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks.

Here's what I settled on:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-SilenceHer.jpg

I experimented with the rear light effect. Not sure if I should shade the hair on the punks. I kinda like how their bright hair colorings pop off the page.

I added the word bubble late in the project, but if you think it's a little too much I can remove it.

[BentonGrey]

Ohh, I love that! That's fantastic. I really like seeing all of the punk gang. I like your previous piece being 'windowed' like that. I think you really nailed the Shredder's pose. He looks pretty awesome, but I think you should expand/widen his side on the right. I think it's cutting in too much under his arm, making him seem too thin. Also, his eyes could be enlarged slightly. They're just a tiny bit too small.

I really love the way you've captured the Shredder, but half of me would like to see him mostly shaded out, where you can only see his outline in the backlighting. At the same time, you've done such a great job that I feel like that might be a waste.

I think your shading on the punks is spot on. I wouldn't mess with that. I might darken the chair, though. It makes sense that the monitors would be lit up, but the chair would be darker where it is sitting, not being as much in their glare as Shredder is.

I love it man. Great work!

[oldmanwinters]

Okay, Benton, I've made a few changes:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-SilenceHerRevised.jpg

1. I know what you mean about Shredder's torso. I exaggerated his upper chest a bit, which makes his waist look super skinny. I think some revised shading helps fix that a little bit.

2. Good call on the chair; I've made some changes, but I'm not sure what parts of the chair should get the shading.

3. I've tightened the coloring a bit; hopefully it makes the whole piece look cleaner. I also changed the color of Shredder's pants to get rid of that purple-ish tint.

4. I'll try to do the eyes later. I did something similar for April's nose in the previous pic, so it shouldn't be too much trouble. [EDIT: fixed 'em!] I don't know if I have the skill to do anything more drastic with the shading at this point. Somebody else would probably have to help me out on that.

[BentonGrey]

Nope, I think you covered it pretty darn well my friend. That looks great. The chair looks right, Shredder's pants are the right color (I didn't even notice that earlier!), and it looks cleaner. Very nice!

[oldmanwinters]

This thread has been helpful to me thus far. I welcome anybody else who wants to use this thread to get feedback on their own layouts to go ahead and post their stuff as well. I'd be happy to return the favors.

Alright, here's another one of my WIP ideas inspired by the Turtle Tracks episode: April formally meets Splinter & the TMNT for the first time.

Option 1:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/intro5.jpg
Very messy. I was gonna put the focus on the mutants, and suggest a very surprised look on April's face that the audience can't see. I even pondered putting an "origin story" in bubbles at the top, but I decided to use that idea for another piece (possibly).

Option 2:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/intro5-option2.jpg
I'm leaning more towards this one as an homage to this screenshot:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Screencaps/AprilTurtlesSplint.jpg
I'm not yet sure about the placement and arrangement of the Turtles; (don't know if it's a good idea to have one of the turtle's back turned toward the audience in an important scene like this one). I drew the whole thing a little too low on the page, so I'd definitely do that differently. Not sure about the background in my piece either. I went with the more familiar Sewer Lair living room.

[tmnt transformer]

The first one for sure...

[oldmanwinters]

The first one for sure...

I can always be swayed back to my original piece! Can you give me some more detailed feedback as to why you like it and how I might could make it better?

I think I did a better job with the turtles' distinct personalities in that top piece. And I think it might give me more space to focus on the TMNT and Splinter than in the bottom piece.

[tmnt transformer]

That picture tells the origin of the turtles in one picture.

[oldmanwinters]

That picture tells the origin of the turtles in one picture.

Yeah, I know that was a cool idea I had, but I'm thinking that origin story might be too much to cram into one picture. I might give the origin story it's own piece, unless I can simplify it a bit to give myself more space to work. Perhaps I could go with 3 Origin bubbles instead of 4?

[tmnt transformer]

Not a bad Idea.

[BentonGrey]

Well, I hate to disagree with the Transformer, but I really like the second one. It immediately felt...I don't know...like a slice out of their meeting. I love the homage to the 'toon scene, and I say, in terms of setting and blocking, don't be afraid to follow that one's lead more, if you want. I like the idea of the Turtle's poses telling you something about who they are.

I agree with our other commenter, it is really cool how you managed to tell the origin in a single panel. I think your layouts were really a clever way to convey that. However, if you feel up to doing that in its own piece, it would certainly give you more room to play with those designs.

[oldmanwinters]

Well, I hate to disagree with the Transformer, but I really like the second one. It immediately felt...I don't know...like a slice out of their meeting. I love the homage to the 'toon scene, and I say, in terms of setting and blocking, don't be afraid to follow that one's lead more, if you want. I like the idea of the Turtle's poses telling you something about who they are.

I agree with our other commenter, it is really cool how you managed to tell the origin in a single panel. I think your layouts were really a clever way to convey that. However, if you feel up to doing that in its own piece, it would certainly give you more room to play with those designs.

Hmm... decisions, decisions...

[oldmanwinters]

Thanks for all the helpful input!

It was a tough call, but here's what I went with:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-AprilMeetsSplinter.jpg

It's not finished yet. I've still got some details to add and clean up.

Any suggestions on coloring? I'm not convinced what colors those pillows should be yet that April & Splinter are using.

[oldmanwinters]

Okay, here's my next project. After being introduced to Splinter, April heads back up to the city streets with the Turtles to find some clues. The turtles, however, get quickly distracted by a pizza parlor! April will go snooping on her own... right into a trap!

Most of these options have to do with getting the best angle. Other important questions include whether or not to include some Foot Soldiers lurking in the alleys.

Option 1
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-Prologue7-optionA.jpg
I think this one is probably the most comical. April is the only one who cares about a Foot Solider obviously stealing a computer device.

Option 2
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-Prologue7-optionB.jpg

Option 3
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-Prologue7-optionC.jpg
Inspired by a page in the "How it All Began" coloring book, I'm afraid this scene too strongly mirrors another piece I've done that occurs immediately after this one in the sequence.

Option 4
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-Prologue7-optionD.jpg
I decided to give the Turtles their trenchcoats and fedoras in this one. Not sure if I'll use the costumes or not, however.

[BentonGrey]

Sorry for the late reply Winters, the semester is about to start and I'm way behind on my preparation! Ha, anyway, to the task at hand.

On the colored scene:
I think this one turned out really, really well. Splinter is especially impressive. I really like all of the details of the Lair you've included. Are you going to go with the thought balloon narration?

As for your new set of layouts, hmm....you present some very interesting options. I'm torn. I like the layout of the first one, really love the image of April in the phone booth in the third one, and like the Turtles in the trench coats from the last one. Heck, I also love the layout of the second one, especially the Turtle (Mikey?) doing the "Awesome!" pose. I love the Foot Soldier just standing in plain sight, reading a paper. I think that the layout of #4 is perhaps the least effective of them, though I definitely like the detail of the Turtles being in disguise. Also, while I really like the image of April in the phone booth, I think the most effective image, in terms of narrative economy, is one of the wider shots. I definitely think some lurking Foot Soldiers would not be out of place.

[oldmanwinters]

Sorry for the late reply Winters, the semester is about to start and I'm way behind on my preparation! Ha, anyway, to the task at hand.

On the colored scene:
I think this one turned out really, really well. Splinter is especially impressive. I really like all of the details of the Lair you've included. Are you going to go with the thought balloon narration?

I'm going to reserve the possibility of doing a more dedicated TMNT origin splash page in the future. I felt like it was important to establish the context of the sewer lair to make it clear that the Turtles had brought April to the lair to meet Splinter.


As for your new set of layouts, hmm....you present some very interesting options. I'm torn. I like the layout of the first one, really love the image of April in the phone booth in the third one, and like the Turtles in the trench coats from the last one. Heck, I also love the layout of the second one, especially the Turtle (Mikey?) doing the "Awesome!" pose. I love the Foot Soldier just standing in plain sight, reading a paper. I think that the layout of #4 is perhaps the least effective of them, though I definitely like the detail of the Turtles being in disguise. Also, while I really like the image of April in the phone booth, I think the most effective image, in terms of narrative economy, is one of the wider shots. I definitely think some lurking Foot Soldiers would not be out of place.

Yeah, there pieces that I like about each piece and pieces that I don't like. I'll just have to see if I can put all my favorite elements into one single shot.

And I've still not made up my mind if it's best to put the turtles in trenchcoats or not. I'm afraid it will clash with the continuity of the next piece in the sequence:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-TMNT2recolor.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

Okay, seeing how I wasn't terribly satisfied with any of my previous layout proposals, I've rethought the framing of the scene and experimented with a wider angle that can show off a bit of the city's skyline.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-Prologue7-optionE.jpg

As for the skyline, I'm inclined towards something simplistic... ala the all black outlines seen in the classic Rampage video game.

Any constructive feedback would be most appreciated.
(Granted, I know can be asking a lot from this forum's Fan Works section. :tgrumble:)

I like the wide angle idea because it so similar to the next scene in the sequence, which really zooms in on the street-level action:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-TMNT2recolor.jpg

[BentonGrey]

Whoops! I thought I'd replied to this! Sorry Winters. I guess that came in the middle of preparing classes. Anyway, I like it quite a bit! I think you've more or less hit on the right balance between the others, though I think that I would almost like to see the previous blocking of April, where she's looking in a different direction than the Turtles. That nicely emphasized their different perspectives. That might not work as well with what you've got, I'm not sure. I like this quite a bit, though. Great work!

[Jephael]

Awesome artwork, dude!

[ZariusTwo]

I like the wide angle idea because it so similar to the next scene in the sequence, which really zooms in on the street-level action:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-TMNT2recolor.jpg

Nice illustration, but some of the wonky perspectives makes it look like Donatello is looking directly at April's situation and not giving a hoot.:)

Either the perspective needs a little adjusting, or, better yet, you can have Don noticing and reacting to the capture.

[oldmanwinters]

Nice illustration, but some of the wonky perspectives makes it look like Donatello is looking directly at April's situation and not giving a hoot.:)

Either the perspective needs a little adjusting, or, better yet, you can have Don noticing and reacting to the capture.

Haha, that very thing was a frequent critique on my DevArt page. I botched the angle of the turtles sitting at the table and it really makes it look like Donny just wants his pizza and might even be amused at what's going on outside.

I threw together a quick edit that gives the turtles eye pupils and fixes the problem a little bit:
http://oldmanwinters.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=scraps#/d4m50lo

I'm drawing most of these pictures in cooperation with BentonGrey's video game mod, so I can't have Donny explicitly noticing the problem because the game's storyline requires that the turtles be a little confused about what happened to April after they get out of the pizza parlor.

[ZariusTwo]

Haha, that very thing was a frequent critique on my DevArt page. I botched the angle of the turtles sitting at the table and it really makes it look like Donny just wants his pizza and might even be amused at what's going on outside.

I threw together a quick edits that gives the turtles eye pupils and fixes the problem a little bit:
http://oldmanwinters.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=scraps#/d4m50lo

I'm drawing most of these pictures in cooperation with BentonGrey's video game mod, so I can't have Donny explicitly noticing the problem because the game's storyline requires that the turtles be a little confused about what happened to April after they get out of the pizza parlor.

Oh, didnt know about the game mod, glad your work is being put to use in that form.

I'm really feeling that image now with the modified touches, great work.

[oldmanwinters]

Oh, didnt know about the game mod, glad your work is being put to use in that form.

I'm really feeling that image now with the modified touches, great work.

It's awkward because the turtles in my other pieces don't have pupils, but I guess the Nick cartoon is gonna try to do something similar. It might end up being a Gargoyles-esque effect!

[oldmanwinters]

Alright, here's what I ended up doing with the layout...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-NinjaDistrict-background-color_zpse8b2539a.jpg

I got a little help on the background image from George & Lizzie, in case you didn't notice the reference.

It's still a bit of a W.I.P. Characters will be added in cut n' paste style!

[kzekedaurus]

Nice progress! Though I miss the other businesses shown in the sketch (and the Eastman & Laird sign), the new layout looks clean and uncluttered.

Since I don't notice it, will the characters be coming out of the man hole in this one?

[oldmanwinters]

Nice progress! Though I miss the other businesses shown in the sketch (and the Eastman & Laird sign), the new layout looks clean and uncluttered.

Since I don't notice it, will the characters be coming out of the man hole in this one?

Thanks, kzekedaurus!

I was disappointed that I couldn't figure out a way to keep the E & L sign, but I felt like keeping that in could complicate the scale and perspective of my piece once I added in the foreground characters.

Speaking of which, here they are...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-NinjaDistrict-reduced_zps99d12993.jpg

[Blossombrooks]

This is looking really cool! The scene reads well. Are you putting anything in the bottom right now? I liked the original sketch but I hear you about not wanting to complicate. I think the trash can would add a bit of balance tho? Just a thought. :tgrin:

[kzekedaurus]

And it looks great!

[Ulisses31]

Some white eyes in the black buildings at the center would look great, ninja eyes...

[oldmanwinters]

And it looks great!

Nice of you to say that! I still plan on making a few more tweaks... probably cleaning up some of the building and windows lines via digital edits.

This is looking really cool! The scene reads well. Are you putting anything in the bottom right now? I liked the original sketch but I hear you about not wanting to complicate. I think the trash can would add a bit of balance tho? Just a thought. :tgrin:

Thank, Blossombrooks! Although I think the foot soldiers creeping in the background should carry the right side of the screen, I agree that the foreground is a little bear. I was considering putting April further to the right (which I still could) but I didn't want her or her speech bubble to cover up the Foot in the background.

I might be able to draw something up later and superimpose it into the foreground.

Some white eyes in the black buildings at the center would look great, ninja eyes...

Hmm... the skyline is supposed to suggest large skyscrapers off in the distance. Can you explain a little bit more of what you have in mind?

[Ulisses31]

eyes in the dark!

http://guerrasdraconicas.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/eyes-in-the-dark.jpg

http://worldsofwallpapers.com/content/funnies/cartoons/800/eyes-in-the-dark-paranoid.jpg

http://rfquerin.org/cbang/ninjafied_1280x800.png

[wussy fuz bunny]

I think you should make splinter get attack by a gassy cat that has diarrhea and is going bald

[oldmanwinters]

eyes in the dark!


Do you mean put the eyes in that shadowy area inside the open window of the Ninja Dentist building?

I think you should make splinter get attack by a gassy cat that has diarrhea and is going bald

What the heck?

[zkarlette]

I think you should make splinter get attack by a gassy cat that has diarrhea and is going bald

Man...what's wrong with you?:lol:

Anyways..I really like how it is turning out Mr.Winters.:)

[Ulisses31]

No, on top of the Ninja Pizza roof... or anywhere you like!

[Jester]

I think you should make splinter get attack by a gassy cat that has diarrhea and is going bald
What the heck?
See...that's his thing. He posts once in a blue moon and it's an attempt at humor that would make gobo and me hang our heads in shame.

[oldmanwinters]

No, on top of the Ninja Pizza roof... or anywhere you like!

As much as I like that idea, I don't think it would make a lot of sense to have three Foot on the roof in clear view but others in complete silhouette sans the eyes.

However, I do think that open window probably could use a pair of yellowish peepers peering out.

Thanks for the idea!

Also, I only wanted to use three Foot Soldiers in clear view since that's the number of goons I had kidnapping April once the turtles go inside in a previous piece:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/BentonGrey-TMNT2recolor.jpg

See...that's his thing. He posts once in a blue moon and it's an attempt at humor that would make gobo and me hang our heads in shame.

Yeah, you guys mostly do bad puns though. There's at least a pathetic but earnest sense of logic to your stuff.

[Ulisses31]

Ninjas, you only see as many as they want, you see three kidnapping April, but there can be more hiding... you know how ninjas are, just because you see only three that don´t means there are only three! ;) Try to use ninja logic!

[oldmanwinters]

Ninjas, you only see as many as they want, you see three kidnapping April, but there can be more hiding... you know how ninjas are, just because you see only three that don´t means there are only three! ;) Try to use ninja logic!

True, but remember... these are the robotic Foot Soldiers of the Fred Wolf Series, which are pretty much crap ninjas. :tlol:

[Ulisses31]

True.... but would look great :)

[oldmanwinters]

I don't think I've shared this one yet, but this is going to be the background of a multi-layered piece I'm putting together:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-OriginBackground-colortest_zps0b3abe7e.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/art/oldmanwinters-OriginBackground-colortest_zps0b3abe7e.jpg.html)

I'm hoping to overlay it with a sequential image that includes these sketches:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-OriginSplinter_zpsa5397979.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/art/oldmanwinters-OriginSplinter_zpsa5397979.jpg.html)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/art/oldmanwinters-OriginTurtles_zpsc155ce9e.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/art/oldmanwinters-OriginTurtles_zpsc155ce9e.jpg.html)

Anyone have any feedback or ideas on what I might add to improve the piece?