Did anyone else think Rahzar/Tokka were handled better in the cartoon?

[CyberCubed]

One thing that shocked me about Rahzar/Tokka in the cartoon is they were actually intelligent. They weren't "stupid infants" like they were referred to in the second movie.

They could both actually speak properly and were quite capable at fighting. I also loved the fact that Rahzar called Tokka, "His best friend in the whole world," something we didn't get from the movie.

Man, I hope Nick brings back Rahzar and Tokka. There's so much potential.

[Genesis]

Handled better, sure. I kind of prefer the somewhat retarded infant version of the two, maybe handled a little bit like Nano.

The OT version was pretty cool, too, but nothing beats the voice artists behind The Secret of the Ooze version.

[sdp]

Definitely a different interpretation but quite an awesome one actually, I would've loved to have seen more of them and their take on the characters. But personally I don't dislike the movie versions and I liked them much more than rocksteady and beebop since they seemed like an actual threat as a kid.

[Technodrome]

I see where the upside would have been with the fighting and also would have loved to hear the best freind line in the movie, BUT if they werent infants we would have never gotten the "MOMMAA" line that i adore soo much

[Jester]

The OT version was pretty cool, too, but nothing beats the voice artists behind The Secret of the Ooze version.
It's one guy. Frank Welker is both Tokka and Rahzar.

[Genesis]

Whoops. You're absolutely right. I completely forgot that he did Tokka, too.

"What did you expect, they'd come out quoting Macbeth?"

[Jester]

"They are stupid!"

[Genesis]

Must resist urge to continue quoting until we finish the movie...

[Walkabout]

They were voiced by Megatron?

(bows)

The OT take was definitely cool.

[Andrew NDB]

It's kind of a weird question. "Are such-and-such characters handled better in universes beyond the one in which they were created?"

It seems like a misnomer. They were created as baby-minded stupid mutants with brawn in their own source material (TMNT II). That's what they are. If you'd prefer them to be otherwise... that's kind of your thing, your problem. To say that a later on incarnation got them "better" by making them not so, then that just means a later on incarnation was doing an incarnation of them that wasn't quite true to what they were supposed to be from the get-go... even if it's more in line with how you'd personally have had them portrayed in the original material.

[Shreddhead]

I'll give your Rahzar, but Tokka was a complete wast of air in the cartoon. "Heeeelp Meeeeeeee!" He might as well have been Slippy Toad.

[Genesis]

I totally get where you're coming from, Andrew. I've thought about that before, myself, though not in so many words.

You know what would be interesting is if the infantile Tokka and Rahzar dealt with that sort of separation as seen in the OT. Might make for a cool take on the characters, especially since they wouldn't understand their emotions about the problem and have a much harder time containing themselves about it.

[FoxZerro]

Better? No.

A great interpretation of the characters? Yes.

In a world where Bebop and Rocksteady exist we didn't really need another pair of mentally inferior mutants running around. I think it was very intelligent of the writers to acknowledge that and make the characters hyper intelligent. Its also a nice dig on the whole quoting Macbeth line, since in the OT they kind of did, Shakespearian accents and all.

If the reimagining bothers you then all you have to do is remember that Prof. Jordan Perry wasn't there to retard their mutation in the OT because he is the intellectual Property of Golden Harvest...

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Better? No.

A great interpretation of the characters? Yes.

In a world where Bebop and Rocksteady exist we didn't really need another pair of mentally inferior mutants running around. I think it was very intelligent of the writers to acknowledge that and make the characters hyper intelligent. Its also a nice dig on the whole quoting Macbeth line, since in the OT they kind of did, Shakespearian accents and all.

If the reimagining bothers you then all you have to do is remember that Prof. Jordan Perry wasn't there to retard their mutation in the OT because he is the intellectual Property of Golden Harvest...

The writers seemed to listen to fans who disliked their movie appearance.

[Galactus]

Can't say I've given it much thought really.

The writers seemed to listen to fans who disliked their movie appearance.

I doubt Dave Wise gave it that much thought. He just included them at random. I doubt he was making a statement, those lines and voice acting would have been the same if he used say Monty Moose and Scale Tail or came up with two new characters.

[Chaotix12345]

When I think about it, Rahzar's characterization in the OT is EXACTLY how I wanted Slash to be handled. An intelligent, incredibly powerful mutant who comes into conflict with the Turtles, but isn't exactly a bad guy or troublemaker. He just wants to live his life. Come to think of it, it's almost like they swapped their personalities, what with OT Slash being a lot more prone to infantile behavior and tantrums. (Even if it wasn't to the extent of Tokka or Rahzar in the film.) Just something that popped into my mind.

[Bauer536]

Gosh, no. Never change anybody's intelligence whatsoever. Tokka and Rahzar were stupid infants. Keep it that way.:twink:

[ssjup81]

Hm, I thought they were handled nicely for the OT...and I loved Rahzaa's voice. ^^

Not sure about better, because in the movie, they were supposed to be naive and infant-like. The OT just had a more mature aspect of them, which was cool.

As for the Bebop and Rocksteady thing...remember, in the beginning, they weren't stupid and they were a threat. They were just dumbed down as the show went on. It's like how Shredder was supposed to be a threat, but was more so like comedy relief. Seriously, he's a ninja master, who rarely used his ninja skills to fight pretty much anyone.

[MikeandRaph87]

TMNT II will always be my favorite film because it had The Shredder and other mutants. However, when it comes to the characters themselves of Razhar and Tokka I liked their handling better in their unfortunate single appearance in the 1987 cartoon. It was a great suprise to have them incorporated into the cartoon. That is what I like about the Nick cartoon that I did not care for in the 2003 cartoon, the willingness to look through everything and pick out what might be adaptable into the specific version then ongoing. I always thought they deserved a follow up episode. Razhar and Tokka should have met Shredder. I can see Shredder manipulating them telling him they he is responsible for their state and is their "father". I can see Shredder use them for his own purposes much like he did with the Punk Frogs and then later both Muckman and Mutagen Man. Razhar and Tokka were not neccessarily evil just percieved that way and misunderstood. A great character piece that could have gone further. I specially liked Razhar in the cartoon. Probably the only other villain I felt sorry for was Baxter Stockman which is a reoccuring thing in Ninja Turtles.

[CyberCubed]

You know sometimes I forget that Rahzar and Tokka did have a small cameo in Turtles Forever. It was nice to see them even if it was a, "blink and you'll miss them," kind of thing.

[Leo656]

I think it was OK, but it might've been even better if someone did a version that was somewhere in between those extremes.

Andrew - I get where you're coming from, and it seems to me you're kinda the type who defers to the source material on most things. I dig that, but I've never been convinced that the original interpretation of something *has* to be the definitive final word on the subject. Many fictional characters and universes were refined and improved later on. I bring it up a lot, but characters like Batman and especially Superman benefited greatly by going away from what the original depictions were. The characters we know best, in many cases, from Peter Pan to TMNT, are not strictly from the source material, but from expanded media.

Mileage may vary, of course, but I think fictional characters and concepts tend to often improve, rather than degrade, when people expand on and even change what's come before - as long as there's a GOOD reason for doing so, and it's not just "we feel like doing it different". Of course, that brings up the issue of what a "good reason" is...