Mirage Volume 4 - Number 32 Update

[Master Splinter]

If you’ve followed me on FB, you already know about TMNT issue 32 and the trials and tribulations regarding that book. Well, I have an update.
This past Tuesday, Eric handed me the original pages and basically said that if I wanted to finish inking them, to go ahead- that he wasn’t able to.
This was exciting news to me- I’ve had a little obsession about this issue, and the fact that that it was done, but never finished, always kind of bothered me. I don’t blame anybody, and getting it out there might not make any difference at all, however I’m pretty certain some of the old Mirage fans might appreciate this small furtherance in the TMNT series 4 saga.
So- since earlier this week, I’ve been noodling on the pages, with the ultimate goal (naturally) of finishing it. The few pages that I’ve done, I’m pretty happy with however I must admit that very often, when you have 2 inkers on the same book, the results are a little un-unified. Not sure that’s a word, but you know what I mean- the art doesn’t really look cohesive. I do notice this on the done pages, but hopefully, it won’t detract from the finished book. Maybe I’ll post a completed page in the near future.
Anyways, I thought that this might be of some interest. The page posted is from 32, and shows the degree of inking already done. There are some pages with much more, and perhaps a few with a little less, but I think it provides a little inside glimpse inside the backstory of this issue.
Woohoo!

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4277/29236331947089148166018.jpg

Jim posted this on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jim-Lawson-Illustration/155495057879245) not long ago.

-ms

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I sure do love Jim sometimes. Probably one of the nicest and coolest guys I've ever had the pleasure of having a very short correspondence with. :tcool:

I follow his page on facebook as well, and I really enjoy his sketches and everything.

[The Fifth Turtle]

Cool news! Hopefully he will get those finished and we can finally get a number 32!!!!

[Lampy]

this is great news. and finally... an actual update regarding its progress.
i don't care if the inking is a tad inconsistent and detracting. quite frankly... its completion matters most. jim lawson IS awesome.

[CyberCubed]

I will cry when this is posted online.

[oldmanwinters]

I've long since lost interest in Volume 4's storyline and long since given up expectations of PL ever finishing it.

But after all this time, I'd still like to read it. And I think it would be a nice sense of closure for Jim.

[Shreddhead]

Just saw this on fb. Not only does he give us this sneak peak, but he also gives us a huge explanation.

[LeoNerdo]

Thanks for sharing. Vol. 4 ain't my favorite but I'll definitely check it out whenever it's available. Any idea how this would be released?

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I'm imagining it would be the same as issue 31. Just released online. The best we could hope for on this would be one of those websites that prints them on demand I think.

[CyberCubed]

I don't understand why this issue wasn't finished a long time ago. The whole thing is done besides being inked, why was it not uploaded like #31 rather than just left to sit there?

[Matches Malone]

I don't understand why this issue wasn't finished a long time ago. The whole thing is done besides being inked, why was it not uploaded like #31 rather than just left to sit there?

I guess they just had things to do other than work on a comic that's on hiatus...

[FoxZerro]

I'm imagining it would be the same as issue 31. Just released online. The best we could hope for on this would be one of those websites that prints them on demand I think.

Is 31 still available online anywhere?

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Is 31 still available online anywhere?

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/tmnt-volume-4-31.html

[Venom]

Is 31 still available online anywhere?

Yep. check the Comic Checklist thread for the link.

[SS_Turtle]

Can't wait to read this! Wish they would print issue 31, even though it's a long shot.....

[CyberCubed]

Everytime a new issue of Volume 4 gets teased I remember the series started in 2001 which was 11 years ago. :ohwell:

[darthsmozers]

Everytime a new issue of Volume 4 gets teased I remember the series started in 2001 which was 11 years ago. :ohwell:

ewwwwwwwwwwwww

[TMNachoT]

what a great news!!

[Andrew NDB]

It might sound lame, but I think the best way to see more Volume 4 stuff is if we go on his blog and remind him how much we want to see it. For a while there he was fielding a lot of vitriol and while he'll never admit it, I have to imagine that took a toll on his motivation to finish it on some big level.

[Genesis]

I've long since lost interest in Volume 4's storyline and long since given up expectations of PL ever finishing it. But after all this time, I'd still like to read it.Very yes on that, Winters.

[CyberCubed]

It might sound lame, but I think the best way to see more Volume 4 stuff is if we go on his blog and remind him how much we want to see it. For a while there he was fielding a lot of vitriol and while he'll never admit it, I have to imagine that took a toll on his motivation to finish it on some big level.

Ever since PL blog's went up people have been begging him to finish Volume 4 and telling him how much they loved it, yet since 2010 or so he keeps saying, "At this time, I have no plans to return to TMNT comics."

He actually posted a new, "Ask PL" on his blog right now, and once again someone asked him about Volume 4 and his response was the same...he seems uninterested for the time being.

He knows some people love Volume 4 but he doesn't seem motivated enough to want to continue it. Its been 2 years since he sold the TMNT property to Nick so he's had plenty of time to unwind. Hopefully within the next few years he has a change of heart, if only because the man deserves praise for his work.

[Master Splinter]

Ever since PL blog's went up people have been begging him to finish Volume 4 and telling him how much they loved it, yet since 2010 or so he keeps saying, "At this time, I have no plans to return to TMNT comics."

He actually posted a new, "Ask PL" on his blog right now, and once again someone asked him about Volume 4 and his response was the same...he seems uninterested for the time being.

He knows some people love Volume 4 but he doesn't seem motivated enough to want to continue it. Its been 2 years since he sold the TMNT property to Nick so he's had plenty of time to unwind. Hopefully within the next few years he has a change of heart, if only because the man deserves praise for his work.

Maybe we should start a white house petition and have the president get him to finish.

/joke

-ms

[Shogun26]

I just saw PL latest Q&A as well. Totally stinks, but what ya gonna do. :cry:

[Dirty Blond]

It might sound lame, but I think the best way to see more Volume 4 stuff is if we go on his blog and remind him how much we want to see it. For a while there he was fielding a lot of vitriol and while he'll never admit it, I have to imagine that took a toll on his motivation to finish it on some big level.

How about you finish it? (You did it before, you can do it again!)

[Andrew NDB]

How about you finish it? (You did it before, you can do it again!)

I wouldn't rule it out, but I'd put a moratorium on even thinking about it for another 2 years minimum... if nothing from Pete by then, then maybe it's time to consider our options.

[CyberCubed]

There's no point in doing a Vol. 4 conclusion without the knowledge of how its supposed to end. With the Image series, Andrew talked to Gary and Frank and they gave him the gist of how they planned to continue the series, and then those stories were streamlined to fit into the events of Volume 4 and Mirage continuity.

With Volume 4, other than the Future TMNT stories, we don't exactly know how these stories finish. Does Mike truly wipe out the entire Styracodon race? Does he confront the Regenta? How does Leo react when he sees an alternate Splinter in the Battle Nexus? Does he ever stop those Warriors? Is Karai from an alternate dimension? Do Don and Raph return to normal by special means?

There's a lot of stuff about Vol. 4 we don't know.

[Matches Malone]

Another thing to consider is that Frank and Gary collaborated with Andrew, whereas Peter Laird is much more protective over this personal project of his, and it is highly doubtful he would give a fan project his blessing, let alone his notes on the story for Volume 4.

[Lampy]

to be honest... i don't think it would be right for someone else (besides peter) to make a conclusion. as much a great writer andrew is. After all... he did say it's his personal project. no matter how long it would take... it's his decision to make, how and when it should end so long as he is still alive. just my thoughts. judging from how well the vol3 conclusion went, i'd still read whatever andrew wrote. but it, by no means, would ever feel like a legitimate ending to vol4 if he didn't have pete's blessing... not like the previous volume conclusion. just my thoughts... no offense.

[Plasticplayhouse]

this is great news. and finally... an actual update regarding its progress.
i don't care if the inking is a tad inconsistent and detracting. quite frankly... its completion matters most. jim lawson IS awesome.

I couldn't agree with you more!

[Cipher]

Honestly, my ideal situation for Volume 4 would be to have IDW collect it into trades and provide an ending with their staff (or bring in Lawson and Talbot) based on Peter's notes and collaboration.

I mean, yeah, it's Laird's project, it's up to him whether it's finished, he doesn't owe us anything, etc., etc.

But I feel there's a balance between that type of rationale and realizing you've contributed a serialized, major plot-line to a collaborative universe and left the people who both paid for and invested themselves in it hanging. And it's one thing to not do it yourself; it's another to sit on the remaining material and not seek other avenues for the story.

[CyberCubed]

I think PL being so protective against revealing how vol 4 will end is because he's not ready to give it up yet.

If he knew 100% he would never bother with comics again I think he would have posted his brief thoughts about how he wanted it to end.

[Shogun26]

Just printed out the digital issue, i think 31. Going to go to kinkos and have it bound. However, before I do, I'm going to photocopy it, and color in the comic.

New TMNT coloring book for the win!

I just hope he continues and finishes this series. Don't really care if its digital or print.

[Master Splinter]

Just printed out the digital issue, i think 31.

Does anyone have a nice copy of the cover with the logo and numbering on it for #31? All I have is the cover with no logo.

-ms

[CyberCubed]

I hope Jim can finish the inking just so we could see the art.

[CommandoJamie7]

But even when Jim Lawson finishes the inking, PL will have to do the toning and the lettering, and it's very unlikely he'll let anyone else do it. :tsad:

[mrmaczaps]

this issue is now finished and Steve Lavigne of Shellback Artworks is looking into actually making some printed copies available.

[Chris]

Awesome news!

[rich]

this issue is now finished and Steve Lavigne of Shellback Artworks is looking into actually making some printed copies available.

Sweet! Please do let us know when and how we can acquire a copy. Thanks for the update.

[mrmaczaps]

Awesome news!

yeah it is. i asked if he'd do a printing of issue #31 as well and he said he'd look into doing it as a double feature... both issues as one. i think that would be awesome... i like the new IDW stuff, but I want to finish vol 4 first!! :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

[mrmaczaps]

Sweet! Please do let us know when and how we can acquire a copy. Thanks for the update.

Will do!!:tgrin:

[Master Splinter]

That's awesome!

Thanks for the heads up, please keep us informed.

-ms

[Oculus Orbus]

Oh wow! Awesome news!

[HotJuicyBurgers]

How'd you find out about this? I really hope that we can order these. I'm really excited about this!

[mrmaczaps]

Shellback Artworks is Steve Lavigne's Turtles themed (sorta) comic book and art supplies and art class & showroom store.... thats a lot of description all at once, but thats what it is more or less.

I've been down to his shop 4 or 5 times since learning of its existence and been chatting him up. I was down there a few weeks ago and asked how the vol 4 pages for issue #32 were going and he said it was done and he was thinking printing some out to sell only in the shop. I suggested that he try to find out if he can print #31 too since it would be odd to have no physical copy of #31 but have #30 & #32 both done. (I kept calling it issue #31 anyways because i can't add i think...).

So I told him I'd keep passing around his name and the shop info so to drum up some biz and he keeps signing anything I bring his way.... Good trade, I think... plus i got to hear about cool things like this. And see some pages....

He's on facebook...
I have a ton of pictures, linked in my signature line below.

Thanks!

(And I'm selling some stuff too... lol)

[frank_one]

Hope they will ship this to us poor European fans as well!

[mrmaczaps]

Hope they will ship this to us poor European fans as well!

I am going to try to get my hands on as many copies as I can once I hear they've been printed... even if I max out a card or two to get a bunch... :tsmile:

I'd offer to snag copies to mail to people but my memory sucks and I just know I'd forget someone and they'd get all upset and stuff about it...

For now, its just a possibility. :tsmile:

[rich]

...i asked if he'd do a printing of issue #31 as well and he said he'd look into doing it as a double feature... both issues as one...

Like ! Like ! Like ! You have my "yes" vote on this for sure. :D

[frank_one]

I am going to try to get my hands on as many copies as I can once I hear they've been printed... even if I max out a card or two to get a bunch... :tsmile:

I'd offer to snag copies to mail to people but my memory sucks and I just know I'd forget someone and they'd get all upset and stuff about it...

For now, its just a possibility. :tsmile:
Thank you in advance, hoping you will remember about me :D

[Powder]

Very exciting news, I'm happy to hear this. I am not surprised the news was not exactly made public though, because I know that once a month or so goes by and this book doesn't surface, people are gonna be crawling up Peters ass like nobodies business... Poor guy. I hope that in the event of that, it doesn't stifle any potential excitement he may have. Anyway, thanks for sharing this! Put a smile on my face (proverbially, that is- Smiling is for PANSIES :p).

[marcelangelo]

Will do!!:tgrin:

ooh thank you so much for this news and sevice to inform us when this will become available!I am living on the other side of the world for example and this would really make my day!!so I appreciate your jumping in for the fans very mucho!;)
cant wait to read on!!
btw anyone any hint of where to find vol 4 issue 29 by now?in my loooong hunt this is now the ONLY issue that I am missing and I would love to read it!
thanks for any information!
greetings, marcel

[Venom]

Sweet! I really hope this projects pulls together. :tgrin:

[Mayhem]

Yeah, I was gonna mention issue #31 as well, that it would be odd to have #32 printed but not #31. Hopefully people outside the US will be able to get hold of it should it come to fruition.

[CyberCubed]

So Mirage isn't publishing the issues? Looks like its just shellback Artworks puttin it together.

Does PL know they're doing this? I think he would rather the issues never be seen unless he was publishing them himself.

[Powder]

I doubt they'd do it without his blessing.

[mrmaczaps]

So Mirage isn't publishing the issues? Looks like its just shellback Artworks puttin it together.

Does PL know they're doing this? I think he would rather the issues never be seen unless he was publishing them himself.

Steve has to run it by Mirage, so I'm pretty sure that means running it by Peter... And a lot of the guys seemed to have done something on this. :tsmile:

I'm pretty sure it hasn't been made public before I said anything because he's checking on it, but he didn't exactly say not to tell anyone, plus if no one knows its coming out, it will sell for hundreds of bucks! lol:tsmile::tsmile:

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I thought the nature of Peter's 18 comics a year clause with Nickelodeon was that only... Mirage could print and publish any issues.

[FearlessLeader]

Please keep us updated if these comics happen! I am so excited I loved volume 4 and want to see anything from it continued!

[azrael]

Im excited... If next time you go ask before they get released if you could have a 2week notice as to get our orders inline. It seems to be about 20 or so. If thats something you would be willing to commit towards.

[mrmaczaps]

Im excited... If next time you go ask before they get released if you could have a 2week notice as to get our orders inline. It seems to be about 20 or so. If thats something you would be willing to commit towards.

Once he lets me know its going to happen, i will find out how many he would hold for me..... if he will let me have more than four or five copies, then i will let people know.

I don't want to say to everyone here i'll get them some but then not be able to pick them all up...:tsmile:

[azrael]

true, maybe we should see how many people want one I doubt he would get mad if you bought a bunch of copies, he gets paid either way.

I know its hypothetical but there is always hope. Im sure Pete would make more copies to sell on his site... I dont know why they dont set up an account with a self publishing company and sell them that way then the "stress" is on another company.

[The Fifth Turtle]

Man have I been itching to read another issue from this vol. Even if its digital like 31 I hope we can see this happen:tsmile:

[Shogun26]

Man have I been itching to read another issue from this vol. Even if its digital like 31 I hope we can see this happen:tsmile:

completely agree.

thanks for the update info!

[thelouisguy]

ooh thank you so much for this news and sevice to inform us when this will become available!I am living on the other side of the world for example and this would really make my day!!so I appreciate your jumping in for the fans very mucho!;)
cant wait to read on!!
btw anyone any hint of where to find vol 4 issue 29 by now?in my loooong hunt this is now the ONLY issue that I am missing and I would love to read it!
thanks for any information!
greetings, marcel
With only 1000 copies printed, you might have to resort to nefarious means in order to read it. Not endorsing it, but that way how I was able to read it.

[mrmaczaps]

Man have I been itching to read another issue from this vol. Even if its digital like 31 I hope we can see this happen:tsmile:

if all goes correctly, a double size issue thats #31 & #32 in it would be superb!

I hope to have some news before Christmas on it, but we'll see. :tgrin:

[Lampy]

i am loving this news so far. but i'd love for it to have that turtle logo on the upper left hand corner saying MIRAGE. it wouldn't feel legit without it.

[Yep It's A Trap]

how would I go about guaranteeing myself a copy?

[mrmaczaps]

i am loving this news so far. but i'd love for it to have that turtle logo on the upper left hand corner saying MIRAGE. it wouldn't feel legit without it.

As far as I know, it will have the Mirage logo on it... its a Mirage book. :tsmile:

[mrmaczaps]

how would I go about guaranteeing myself a copy?

I am going to post the news on my blog as soon as I hear about it...
Find & like Shellback Artworks on FB...

:tgrin: If Steve will let me, I'm going to buy a whole bunch... but at this time, I have no idea the print run they're going to do or if he will allow people to buy more than 1 copy or whatever...

[Lampy]

i so want one. been waiting too long.

[drasgow]

I'm in too! that would be awesome!

[KM3K]

I'd love to get in on this. I'll buy at least a copy of #31 and #32. Might buy two copies if possible. Keep us informed!

[Venom]

Hey guys, you all know Steve is easy to contact, right?

If this does see print, it may very well fall under the Mirage Publishing banner but he hasn't asked Pete about printing anything yet, though.

[mrmaczaps]

Hey guys, you all know Steve is easy to contact, right?

If this does see print, it may very well fall under the Mirage Publishing banner but he hasn't asked Pete about printing anything yet, though.

that he is... that he is.

i'm not sure who he is waiting to talk to and ask but i'm sure he knows what he's doing. :)

[Sergeant Bananas]

I would love to see this series finished properly. There were so many abandoned projects during this run ie. Sourcebook, Forever Wars, collections. It's sad because I've read from Peter's blog the storyline could be resolved in I think between 6-12 more issues, which by most standards is only about a year of publishing. I really wish he had just kept up with the printing timetable. It could have been finished before they even discontinued tales of at the time.

[Venom]

that he is... that he is.

i'm not sure who he is waiting to talk to and ask but i'm sure he knows what he's doing. :)

Peter Laird, the former owner of the TMNT intellectual property.

>_______________________________________________>

[mrmaczaps]

Peter Laird, the former owner of the TMNT intellectual property.

>_______________________________________________>

I gathered that, but he had said he needed to talk to Dan... Which I would guess would then ask Peter or may already have set some rules or whatever in place so they don't have to bother him directly. :tsmile:

[DrSpengler]

One of my big regrets as a collector was never getting the print copies of #29 and #30 when they came out.

Sigh...

So in light of that, I'd definitely want to be on top of these when they hit the market.

[CyberCubed]

We'll all be 50 year old men by the time Volume 4 reaches its conclusion. At this rate we're lucky to get one new issue after every 2-3 years.

[bjaxx87]

With only 1000 copies printed, you might have to resort to nefarious means in order to read it. Not endorsing it, but that way how I was able to read it.
Wasn't there even a legal way to acquire digital Vol. 4 issues via ninjaturtles.com and WOWIO?

btw: I'm in for copies of 31 and 32 as well! (If it's possible for Europeans to get some)

[thelouisguy]

Wasn't there even a legal way to acquire digital Vol. 4 issues via ninjaturtles.com and WOWIO?
You are correct. Those options are no longer available and Mirage does not have any for sale on their site.
http://www.miragelicensing.com/paypal/mirage04.html
http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume04/29/29.html
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38501
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=22966

[frank_one]

We'll all be 50 year old men by the time Volume 4 reaches its conclusion. At this rate we're lucky to get one new issue after every 2-3 years.
Yeah, we'll all be old... or dead. I hope Laird will pass his rough ideas for the story to Lawson at some point and have him doing the scripting work by himself. This would speed up the rate.

[CyberCubed]

True, but after Volume 4 is concluded its probably the end of the Mirage universe. I doubt IDW will make any other series in the Mirage universe, so its probably going to be the grand finale of the original TMNT universe.

That's why I want Volume 4 completed, its basically going to be the ending of the Mirage Turtles and the original TMNT continuity.

[frank_one]

The end of volume 4 is likely to be the end of Mirage Turtles, true. This is so sad now that I think about it.
So you are saying: since this could be the last from Mirage Turtles, better good than quick. That's right, I totally agree on this. What I'm afraid of is that we could never see it concluded with this rate as Laird in the future could get even more "fed up" with the Turtles. In this case, I would prefer to see it concluded by Lawson, using Laird's idea. What I hope does not happen is to see it concluded by IDW or someone else.

[junkboy]

This is great news and i will be following this thread. A double 31-32 print would be awesome. If it really sees the print , i sure do not wanna miss it as well.
Thanks for the news and keeping us informed.

[bjaxx87]

You are correct. Those options are no longer available and Mirage does not have any for sale on their site.
http://www.miragelicensing.com/paypal/mirage04.html
http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume04/29/29.html
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38501
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=22966

I was just wondering if it's that condemnable to share something that you legally downloaded for free in the past. But well, from reading the thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38501) you linked, I guess it's a legal limbo...

[mrmaczaps]

Visited with Steve today at Shellback. The ARTWORK for issue 32 is done, but the dialog is not yet finished...
I just thought I'd clear that up. He said it might get done soon or it might take years or if Peter will let him, or someone else do it, it might get done sometime in the near future...

Either way, I let him know that all of us cannot wait and will be ready and willing to buy it as soon as it hits Shellback Artworks stands...

[Master Splinter]

Visited with Steve today at Shellback. The ARTWORK for issue 32 is done, but the dialog is not yet finished...
I just thought I'd clear that up. He said it might get done soon or it might take years or if Peter will let him, or someone else do it, it might get done sometime in the near future...

Either way, I let him know that all of us cannot wait and will be ready and willing to buy it as soon as it hits Shellback Artworks stands...

Thanks for the update!

-ms

[frank_one]

Thank you for the "good" news. The guys have done what was to be done, now it's really all up to Peter Laird. I'm a bit worried :ohwell:

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Visited with Steve today at Shellback. The ARTWORK for issue 32 is done, but the dialog is not yet finished...
I just thought I'd clear that up. He said it might get done soon or it might take years or if Peter will let him, or someone else do it, it might get done sometime in the near future...

Either way, I let him know that all of us cannot wait and will be ready and willing to buy it as soon as it hits Shellback Artworks stands...

Hadn't this been the case now for a while? I thought everyone was excited because it had finally been finished. That's why I was excited too.

[CyberCubed]

Hadn't this been the case now for a while? I thought everyone was excited because it had finally been finished. That's why I was excited too.

I thought PL still had to do some toning too.

[Andrew NDB]

this issue is now finished and Steve Lavigne of Shellback Artworks is looking into actually making some printed copies available.

Visited with Steve today at Shellback. The ARTWORK for issue 32 is done, but the dialog is not yet finished...

So basically it's not finished.

[frank_one]

Is the inking done? Wasn't it Peter's (and talbot's) duty?

[Powder]

I would imagine Jim did it by himself. If we're waiting on the script, then you can forget expecting this anytime soon. :(

[CyberCubed]

So in other words we likely won't see issue #32 finished for at least another few years.

Oh well. I just hope Volume 4 concludes before Peter Laird is 65.

[Jester]

Oh well. I just hope Volume 4 concludes before Peter Laird is 65.
Why the arbitrary "Before he's 65" date?

[CyberCubed]

Why the arbitrary "Before he's 65" date?

Because he calls himself, "semi-retired" now at age...55 I think he is? By the time he's 65 he'll be "fully retired."

[Jester]

Riiight...

Can a writer/artist ever truly retire?

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Riiight...

Can a writer/artist ever truly retire?

Bill watterson sure seems to have retired lmfao

[mrmaczaps]

So basically it's not finished.

Basically I got ahead of myself because he had said its done but he meant the inking and all the art portion of the work was done. Then be clarified this time. I just misunderstood...

[frank_one]

Because he calls himself, "semi-retired" now at age...55 I think he is? By the time he's 65 he'll be "fully retired."
He's 58. Eight year older than Eastman.

[CyberCubed]

Laird commented on issue #32 on his blog today when someone asked:

Tim, Volume 4 is on what might be called "indefinite hiatus". The next issue (#32) has been penciled and inked, and I have to tone the artwork and write the dialogue and do the lettering... but I don't know when I will get to it, as I am just not inspired to work on a Turtle comic right now. I hope to get back to it at some point, but I am not sure when that will be. -- PL

So basically the issue is far from done, but at least PL does intend to go back to it eventually.

[Powder]

Not exactly news, but thanks for trying.

[frank_one]

I hope to get back to it at some point, but I am not sure when that will be. -- PL

It is good news to read he still want to do it. He admits he doesn't know when, but he says he hopes he will do it eventually.

[CyberCubed]

It is good news to read he still want to do it. He admits he doesn't know when, but he says he hopes he will do it eventually.

Yeah, but its just one issue. Who knows if he'll actually finish Volume 4 altogether which would be at least another 6 issues he said.

[Mewzard]

Yeah, but its just one issue. Who knows if he'll actually finish Volume 4 altogether which would be at least another 6 issues he said.

I imagine he will, he's just doing work when the mood hits him, rather than forcing it. I bet they will get finished...just expect to wait about a decade.

[frank_one]

And finally we'll see Leo meeting Splinter again (or a mutant rat from a parallel universe, who knows), Mike kicking some Styraci ass and Raph and Don turning back to their normal form. I was not in that Guardi-friend and Xihad subplot so much, on the other hand.

[CyberCubed]

I imagine he will, he's just doing work when the mood hits him, rather than forcing it. I bet they will get finished...just expect to wait about a decade.

Well Peter Laird is 58 now, isn't he? Another decade and he'll be 68.

Do you really think we're more likely to get comics from him when he's going to be much older and much less interested in the property?

[corvus]

its sad. Such an epic series just fizzled out like that.

[gbhq]

I think waiting a decade is stretching it, maybe 3-4 years. To be honest
i think its probably better off not bieng finished, maybe just having a really good issue 32 and finishing it there, sometimes forcing it you get a really bad ending.

[CyberCubed]

I think waiting a decade is stretching it, maybe 3-4 years. To be honest
i think its probably better off not bieng finished, maybe just having a really good issue 32 and finishing it there, sometimes forcing it you get a really bad ending.

32 is just going to be a random issue though, it wasn't intended to wrap anything up.

We know how the Mirage universe ends due to the old Turtle stories

[gbhq]

what I meant was issue 32 should be just really good, and we actually never
get a proper ending. To be honest I think it was not fair to the fans the way Peter Laird treated the series toward the end(having to wait so long between issues), and he's still doing it to us. Although I really enjoyed it I am tired of waiting.

[bjh13]

I think waiting a decade is stretching it, maybe 3-4 years. To be honest

It's important to note that Peter Laird hasn't touched TMNT in years now. He mentioned back in 2010 that he was going to post #32 online since it was "virtually complete" like he did #31, than then post the plots for the remaining 6 or 7 issues. When he posted #31 he noted the plots needed to be beefed up and since he didn't feel like dealing with the Turtles he didn't know when that would happen. Two years later and the only comments we have seen have been more of the same, he doesn't know if he will ever work on it again, he would like to complete the series some day but doesn't know if he will, and that he isn't inspired to work on it.

I don't see how anything he has said in the last 2-2.5 years should give us any confidence we will see anything past #32 getting posted in some form online. I wouldn't be surprised when #32 is posted if it would be in it's current unlettered, undaiologued, untoned state. Since the sale he really does seem to be done with the work creatively.

[dkram230]

Really, now is the prefect time for this series to get finished as the franchise has sparked up so much interest again. While not necessarily to the extent of the current IDW releases, old and new fans would pick this up if published. If he waits too long, the property will go back into hibernation losing these fair-weather fans. Wait too long, and many who are even fans of the volume 4 series will probably just stop caring. Peter is a business man and I'm sure he is well aware of this. The fact that he is not riding the coattails of the Nick success, even when he made a point to add in a clause to allow him to legally do so, implies that he truly is no longer looking to profit from the Turtles and that to complete the series would be solely to satisfy his own desire to do so, should that ever return.

[CyberCubed]

I think hardcore TMNT fans can wait forever, honestly. Some of us have been waiting over 20 years for Archie's, "Forever War" to come out for example, and we never lost interest.

I'll pick up a new issue of Volume 4 whenever it comes out, even if its not for another 10 years from now.

[Venom]

Peter is a business man and I'm sure he is well aware of this.

Actually, no, he was an artist forced into becoming a businessman. Gary Richardson was the businessman.

Pete started Volume 4 because he had a story he wanted to tell; it was fun for him until the mid-naughts, around 2007 or so you could sense the shift in attitude.

He's made it known that he'd like to finish the story at some point, but feels artistically void and uninspired when it comes to the Turtles.

He's essentially late-90's Kevin Eastman.

[dkram230]

Actually, no, he was an artist forced into becoming a businessman. Gary Richardson was the businessman.

Pete started Volume 4 because he had a story he wanted to tell; it was fun for him until the mid-naughts, around 2007 or so you could sense the shift in attitude.

He's made it known that he'd like to finish the story at some point, but feels artistically void and uninspired when it comes to the Turtles.

He's essentially late-90's Kevin Eastman.

Gary may have managed the affairs and handled all of the details, but it was Peter who still called the shots, albeit on an advisory basis I’m sure. But your point is very true: He was an artist who was forced into becoming a businessman. And it was the stress of such an ordeal caused the rift between the creators and that lead both to eventually walk away from the property. I remember reading an article or a blog or something where Peter fielded the question on why he didn’t just hire people to takeover control of TMNT while still retaining ownership. His response was that because of the type of person he was, that would never be possible for him. As long as he still had ownership, he would feel compelled to work. The only way to truly retire for him was to sell. Anyway, I’m babbling about something we all know. But to both our credits, yes he was first and foremost an artist. But he was also a businessman.

[Andrew NDB]

It's just a shame that Mirage's 18 TMNT comics a year clause with Nickelodeon has and is just being wasted.

[CyberCubed]

It's just a shame that Mirage's 18 TMNT comics a year clause with Nickelodeon has and is just being wasted.

PL more or less said he only pushed for that because he wanted freedom to publish comics without getting approval from Nick or IDW, not that he definitely intended to use it for anything.

[Powder]

It's just a shame that Mirage's 18 TMNT comics a year clause with Nickelodeon has and is just being wasted.

Amen to that... I wish he would've just let Tales continue, and have Jim/Dan give approval over storylines. They have good judgement.

[CyberCubed]

Amen to that... I wish he would've just let Tales continue, and have Jim/Dan give approval over storylines. They have good judgement.

PL was losing money out of his own pocket for every issue of Tales and Volume 4 he published. Other than the Vol. 4 issues that he charged $10 for, (and that was only two of them), he lost money on every single issue. Every single one was sold at a loss, because he was making them for himself and the fans, not caring if he drew in casual comic buyers.

Now think of all the money PL lost dating all the way back to 2001 when Volume 4 started till 2009 when Tales ended. That's nearly a decade of losing money on over 100 comics.

Its pretty obvious why Tales ended, and I remember Dan saying they were thinking of canceling it much earlier but only kept it around to give the Mirage staff some work due to their bought stories.

[Andrew NDB]

PL was losing money out of his own pocket for every issue of Tales and Volume 4 he published.

Not true at all.

[Powder]

I never said it would have been rational/fair/etc, I merely expressed a desire.

[CyberCubed]

Not true at all.

Which issues did he profit off of? I remember him saying this in the letters section of Volume 4 and on his blog, the series never turned a profit. I'm pretty sure its the same for Tales.

[Venom]

PL was losing money out of his own pocket for every issue of Tales and Volume 4 he published...

Now think of all the money PL lost dating all the way back to 2001 when Volume 4 started till 2009 when Tales ended. That's nearly a decade of losing money on over 100 comics.

Tax write-off.

I'd be curious to see how an official Mirage Indiegogo/Kickstarter-type project would fair (though it would get pretty expensive for us hardcores who would pitch in more for the extras). If nothing else, it would help foot the bill on printing a low quantity.

[Andrew NDB]

Which issues did he profit off of? I remember him saying this in the letters section of Volume 4 and on his blog, the series never turned a profit. I'm pretty sure its the same for Tales.

From Dan Berger:

Vol. 4 made money for probably the first 4-5 issues. #1 sold around 18,000 when you factor in the second printing. But sales dropped off fast each book, so it was losing money pretty early on (and some of them lost a ton of money cuz Pete wrote so many pages. I didn't know he was gonna do that far enough ahead of time to solicit them with higher price tags. Diamond's four month lead time can be a real bitch to deal with).

I don't know how Tales sold in its early run since I wasn't involved with the managing aspect of it 'til it was selling like 2,500 copies. Factoring in page rates (as you gotta do), It was losing a buttload of cash every issue. Come to think of it, the take from 2,500 didn't even cover the printing bill. The collected Tales books were also losing money, which is why I nixed them (and the $1,000 per page ads in Previews) when I took over.

[CyberCubed]

So basically only 5 issues of everything Mirage put out since 2001 made money.

In other words about 28 issues of Volume 4, 70 issues of Tales, and those 16 TMNT spinoffs from Tales....all cost Mirage a fortune. And much of it came out of PL's pocket.

Its pretty obvious why Mirage is not putting out new issues now, even if Dan and Jim wanted to do it for example. He only did it as a safeguard to finish Volume 4 when he wants to.

[Oculus Orbus]

Thanks for that, Andrew.

You can argue that they were making lots of money with the franchise anyway, but publishing a book for so long despite the losses shows a lot of love for the media and the stories they were telling.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm fairly sure the first few Tales Vol. 2 did fairly well but I guess Murphy is the guy to ask on that.

[Andrew NDB]

Steve Murphy:

I know is that sales dropped considerably after the first several issues of both titles. I never knew the sales of vol. 4 but I think I'm correct when I say that the first issue of Tales vol. 2 sold around 23,000 copies and that it had leveled off to around 10,000 copies per issue by the time I stopped editing the book (whatever issue that was). I know what page rates were, roughly what print runs were (like I just said) but no longer remember what printing costs were or what advertising revenue was. My guess is that Tales vol. 2 made money for the first ten issues or so and that it most likely lost money thereafter.

[MikeandRaph87]

Its pretty obvious why Mirage is not putting out new issues now, even if Dan and Jim wanted to do it for example. He only did it as a safeguard to finish Volume 4 when he wants to.

I asked Dan in email and Mike in person. They said they want to finish Forever War and told Peter they would be happy to finish volume 4 along with Jim Lawson as well,but Peter said "no" to passing off some of the rule of 18. One of the Mirage Dudes asked that at the meeting where he told them about the sale. Peter feels he would feel compelled to oversee it and does not want to be dragged into it even if the Mirage Dudes do it without him. Its unfortunate they can't act on their own with the rule of 18 but it is what it is.

[Andrew NDB]

I asked Dan in email and Mike in person. They said they want to finish Forever War and told Peter they would be happy to finish volume 4 along with Jim Lawson as well,but Peter said "no" to passing off some of the rule of 18. One of the Mirage Dudes asked that at the meeting where he told them about the sale. Peter feels he would feel compelled to oversee it and does not want to be dragged into it even if the Mirage Dudes do it without him. Its unfortunate they can't act on their own with the rule of 18 but it is what it is.

Peter actually can't publish "The Forever War" now even if he wanted to (and he doesn't), as the 18 comics a year clause only applies to Mirage TMNT.

[MikeandRaph87]

Peter actually can't publish "The Forever War" now even if he wanted to (and he doesn't), as the 18 comics a year clause only applies to Mirage TMNT.

I thought it was any? Atleast that was what I picked up on from Peter's old blog and Mike specifically saying it to me back in June at a convention. He referred to that storyline and vol.4 completion.:ohwell: There is always IDW. If not then kay sera sera.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought it was any? Atleast that was what I picked up on from Peter's old blog and Mike specifically saying it to me back in June at a convention.

Nope. Strictly Mirage TMNT. I was specifically told this was the reason Forever War was killed, because post-sale Mirage wouldn't be allowed to put it out, 18 clause or not.

It also came up with the Image TMNT conclusion. Even though Vol. 3 was initially part of the Mirage universe, because it was released through Image comics and its "which universe is it?" placing is murky my pitch never made it past Gary Richardson. Because the 18 comics a year thing is Mirage TMNT only.

[CyberCubed]

Well to be fair it is possibly IDW could publish the Forever War instead. Small possibility though.

[Andrew NDB]

Well to be fair it is possibly IDW could publish the Forever War instead. Small possibility though.

Yes, and that's exactly what Steve is holding out for.

(holding out, meaning, not turning the scripts over to me/others as he earlier agreed to)

[DK2]

Wow the numbers for Mirage losing out on their 2nd run of TMNT Publishing. I think Dan may be off on the numbers for Tales Vol. 2 though. No way its numbers were bigger than TMNT V4 numbers even in both series' debuts. If I'm not mistaken my memory is that TMNT Vol. 4 # 1-2 did like 12000 (18000 after 2nd print) and under. So Tales Vol.2 early issues had to be less than that. I like how he mentions the Tales TPB's were huge losses. I always wondered why Tales TMNT V2 got trades but not any TMNT V4 run? They made what like 10 trades during this publishing run (TMNT V1, Tales V1 + V2, Future Tense, Souls Winter, TMNT '07 movie prequels). To think all if not most didn't make money. I don't know much about book order and profit margins in the wholsale/direct markets. How does it work and how do they make money or break even? Can anyone explain? Especially through Diamond Dist? Dan also mentions how brutal it costed just to pay for ads in Previews. Diamond or the publishers also have a certain order amount/number to reach to remain solicited or its cancelled between the publishers themselves or by Diamond.

[Chris]

Wow, I knew the books were making a loss towards the end but I had no idea that they were losing money that early in their runs!

I have a lot of respect for Peter/Mirage. They truly were doing Vol. 4/Tales Vol. 2 for the fans.

[CyberCubed]

Or as PL would say, he was really writing Vol. 4 for himself. He was flat out telling people to stop reading it after a while.

[Chris]

True, but he didn't have to keep Tales going and he could have made Vol. 4 online only (saving a LOT of printing costs) much sooner than he did.

[sorrenmj]

I finally got me a copy of issue 32, it is on its way right now. This is the last issue I need to complete my volume 4 run. I can't wait to received this. It looks mint in the photograph! I wish I had known this was released in 2014. I did wait since 2009 but gave up after three or four years thinking for sure it was never gonna happen. Well I have a copy coming now!