IDW's TMNT #13 discussion

[ToTheNines]

Out Wednesday.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/08/20/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-13-preview/


I miss Dan Duncan immensely. I think Kuhn is a good artist, but the turtles' teeth are sticking out of their mouths in every fugging panel. What's with that?

[Shreddhead]

I cannot agree more, Im really missing Duncan now. Those teeth are really my main complaint, like you said its every friggin pannel. I think the turtles need retainers.
http://www.echinacities.com/userfiles/2010-Year/11-Month/5-Day/image002(5).jpg

[Genesis]

I think that's the only thing making it not look good.

[DonatelloFan]

Wow, I thought people were over-reacting, but after seeing the preview, yeah, the teeth are crazy. Even in one panel where Mikey is in a shadow, he STILL makes them prominent. Aside from the teeth, and what looks like him making the Turtles' heads lean forward, I like his art.

[CyberCubed]

And to think people complained about Jim Lawson, I'd rather have that art back.

That being said Andy is only doing the next 4 issues as a guest artist, hopefully they bring in Ross May or someone else from the micros to take over.

[Genesis]

And to think people complained about Jim Lawson, I'd rather have that art back.Oh, I don't dislike Kuhn all that much. If we had Mirage Volume 1 Lawson back, absolutely.
Modern Lawson drives me insane.

[Shreddhead]

Now no offense to Kuhn, I actually like most everything but the teeth. But if Lawson came back Id be so pumped. Ive always loved his style, and id love to see his take on the idw turtles.

[Matches Malone]

Funky teeth are still preferrable to funky plastrons, in my opinion.

[CyberCubed]

It's easy to forget that this Raphael barely knows Splinter or his brothers. Hopefully it's a good Raph/Splinter story.

I also wonder what's up with Karai attacking the Foot. Reminds me of when Tatsu started attacking his own men after their failure to stop the turtles.

[DarkLightDragon]

^It's probably just sparring. After the way she got taken down, it's expected of someone like her to train more fiercely.


Really looking foward to how Raph and Spilnter will be interacting in this story since Raph will remind his dad of how much of a hot-head he was.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Wow, I thought people were over-reacting, but after seeing the preview, yeah, the teeth are crazy. Even in one panel where Mikey is in a shadow, he STILL makes them prominent. Aside from the teeth, and what looks like him making the Turtles' heads lean forward, I like his art.

Yeah the teeth thing is a little distracting. I wish he would curb it or come up with a new way to draw teeth altogether. I see what you're saying about the heads leaning forward too. Overall though I actually do like his stylized turtles. The facial expressions are great. I'm sure his style will adjust a little after consistently drawing them for a while.

Anyone else pick up the "Duncan" donuts bit? Pretty cool.

[Venom]

I also wonder what's up with Karai attacking the Foot.

Probably a training session, the Foot seem rather brutal in its discipline and training.

[MikeandRaph87]

I LOVE cover RI. Its all about the art style and the coloring goes hand and glove with it. The enternal art is fine but their teeth look odd. Aside from that no problems. Usually for me its all about what is the writting. What the plot is,how well the characters are treated and developed and which charaacters are used.

Anyone else catch the easter egg on page 5? The sound effect from the blowl being dropped as the turtles ran off to face trouble,"klunk".

[Toby Barrett]

At the very least, Kuhn's art looks a million times better with Ronda's great coloring.

[The Big Bad]

http://www.echinacities.com/userfiles/2010-Year/11-Month/5-Day/image002(5).jpg

Yeah, pretty much this. Of all the things about the original toon I didn't want to be reminded about, its use of racist caricatures was right there at the bottom. And yet, that's the first thing Khun's art (unintentionally, as I'm sure this isn't what he had in mind) reminds me of. It's pretty darn unfortunate.

[Raven]

Im sorry but when did this title become Teenage Mutant Ninja Gophers?

[Andrew NDB]

Going to have to practice the old "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" on the art this issue.

[Archon_Turtle]

Going to have to practice the old "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" on the art this issue.

Oh come on Drew, why would you start that NOW?

<3

Those teeth are god awful.

http://wa1.cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/0-Articles/236549/cl_teeth2_141211.jpg?width=460
"I like Turtles!"

[frank_one]

Is Kuhn doing the inking too, right? He seems to randomly put useless big bold squared black lines of ink on the body of the turtles, this is my main complaint. Aside from this, his art looks better than I was expecting. Not so bad after all.

[oldmanwinters]

Oh come on Drew, why would you start that NOW?

<3

Those teeth are god awful.

http://wa1.cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/0-Articles/236549/cl_teeth2_141211.jpg?width=460
"I like Turtles!"

6MVzERdHQgc

[Lordmylar06]

I LOVE cover RI. Its all about the art style and the coloring goes hand and glove with it.

I can't agree more with you on the cover art for the RI variant. I wish they'd get Valerio Schiti on the main title. If only he weren't on Battle Beasts right now... his preview art for that title makes me confident that he could handle anything thrown at him for a TMNT book.

[ToTheNines]

I hope Kuhn's design for Slash isn't as unappealing as his turtles are.

[CyberCubed]

I hope Kuhn's design for Slash isn't as unappealing as his turtles are.

I was wondering the same. It's a shame he's debuting now as he probably won't look half as cool as he should.

[MikeandRaph87]

I can't agree more with you on the cover art for the RI variant. I wish they'd get Valerio Schiti on the main title. If only he weren't on Battle Beasts right now... his preview art for that title makes me confident that he could handle anything thrown at him for a TMNT book.

I just want to throw this out there slightly off topic,but if he can't do Ninja Turtles why not Batgirl? Its almost as a good if not just as good a match!

Slash does have sharp teeth so it can't be too bad. After #13 comes in I will probably write in. I know I will say something about those oddly drawn teeth. Who knows if the 'Drome actually agrees on something and we all do the same maybe...just maybe the teeth will be fixed without braces.

[Shreddhead]

I was wondering the same. It's a shame he's debuting now as he probably won't look half as cool as he should.

Lets just hope it doesnt look like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7829390016_649c3bb6b7.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

When I look at Raphael's teeth, I have a strange urge to start playing the piano. Anybody else getting that sensation?

[Zulithe]

I was hoping that after Duncan left we'd finally be done with the rabbit-toothed turtle look.

How wrong I was!

I'm not the kind of fan that likes to pick away endlessly at the art in a book. But man! Please understand comics are expensive these days. $3.99 per issue! I mean... insane... I started collecting when they were $1.25. The price stayed around $1.99 for many years but it's been exploding since then.

At $3.99 I think we deserve some art that pleases MOST of the fans. Please no more rabbit teeth! I don't care WHO draws it, just STOP.

[Lampy]

the Turtle art sucks... period.

[Eiko]

I'm really starting to miss Duncan's art now those teeth ugh.

[PhatRam32]

Out Wednesday.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/08/20/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-13-preview/


I miss Dan Duncan immensely. I think Kuhn is a good artist, but the turtles' teeth are sticking out of their mouths in every fugging panel. What's with that?

Will this be released in digital format as well?

[TMNachoT]

When I look at Raphael's teeth, I have a strange urge to start playing the piano. Anybody else getting that sensation?

Ha ha! it´s true!!

[CyberCubed]

Let's hope Andy tones down the teeth in the next 3 issues.

I actually expect a decline in sales after this issue due to the artwork change. How many casuals may drop the book after seeing the art?

Hopefully issue 17 brings in a good replacement artist.

[marcelangelo]

gosh, you guys always find something to moan abou huh?I m here to give kuhns art some love...and another thing:how fortunate that all these preferences of fans don't mean a thing at all to the book...for art has to be free to be great and not channeled and customized to be pretty in the eyes of readers...ust saying...I for have seen dan doing much more unpretty things with the guys...

[ToTheNines]

and another thing:how fortunate that all these preferences of fans don't mean a thing at all to the book

It'll mean a good bit if sales take a dump.

I think Kuhn is a great artist. His designs for Splinter, April, Casey, Karai, etc are great, but he somehow got it in his head that the turtles are incapable of closing their mouths.

Kuhn's teeth are Duncan's plastrons.

[Dirty Blond]

Guys, we haven't even seen his Splinter yet, and as a rat, he's supposed to have big teeth!

[Andrew NDB]

On a much more interesting sidenote, did you all know that "Goof Tooth" is a very real thing?

See here for the proof:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goof+tooth

[CyberCubed]

Guys, we haven't even seen his Splinter yet, and as a rat, he's supposed to have big teeth!

Splinter s in the preview.

[FantasticNinja]

I've been lurking here for awhile, and made an account yesterday so I could say something. I hope someone from IDW will read this thread so the right measures can be taken. Seriously...those ****ing teeth, what the **** is Kuhn thinking? Someone needs to slap him across the face for those turtle designs. I really, really liked his Micro but to have buck teeth in every panel so far is ruining the art for me. Fifty percent of me reading comics is for it to have art that I like, if it doesn't I can't read the books. It completely takes me out of the story, and in this case, it's happening. I'm really thinking about canceling my books now if I see buck teeth on every turtle, on every page. I even have all of Duncan's and all of Eastman's covers, and lots of RIs of the annual and the Micro even with Peterson's B&W covers. I really like the books, but this, it's almost a ****ing deal breaker for me. Fix your ****, Kuhn, this is unacceptable.

[marcelangelo]

I've been lurking here for awhile, and made an account yesterday so I could say something. I hope someone from IDW will read this thread so the right measures can be taken. Seriously...those ****ing teeth, what the **** is Kuhn thinking? Someone needs to slap him across the face for those turtle designs. I really, really liked his Micro but to have buck teeth in every panel so far is ruining the art for me. Fifty percent of me reading comics is for it to have art that I like, if it doesn't I can't read the books. It completely takes me out of the story, and in this case, it's happening. I'm really thinking about canceling my books now if I see buck teeth on every turtle, on every page. I even have all of Duncan's and all of Eastman's covers, and lots of RIs of the annual and the Micro even with Peterson's B&W covers. I really like the books, but this, it's almost a ****ing deal breaker for me. Fix your ****, Kuhn, this is unacceptable.

see?...that's what is ridiculous....dude, try doing a comic book, your OWN comic book just once and you will see that there are more sides to this problem...
tothenines-fair enough your point.I share the awkward feeling towards the rubber-plastrons;)so this is a valid point.

[FantasticNinja]

see?...that's what is ridiculous....dude, try doing a comic book, your OWN comic book just once and you will see that there are more sides to this problem...
tothenines-fair enough your point.I share the awkward feeling towards the rubber-plastrons;)so this is a valid point.

Really? Think what I said was ridiculous? Who the **** would think having the turtles have 10 teeth showing like some idiots on every page is cool? Everything is fine with his art, except the teeth. And don't tell me to make my own comic book so I could know about all the problems. It's the ****ing TEETH!

[Andrew NDB]

You know, it's a bit like the Hedden/McWeeney Mirage material... except those guys were intentionally trying to make the Turtles look ridiculous.

[CyberCubed]

You know, it's a bit like the Hedden/McWeeney Mirage material... except those guys were intentionally trying to make the Turtles look ridiculous.

It's really weird because as seen in all the different micros there are TONS of talented artists at IDW who would have made good Duncan replacements. I realize their schedules may already be booked with other comic projects but it seems weird that Andy was chosen over the others.

I guess we can only hope Ross Cambell comes on board full time with #17.

[Andrew NDB]

It's really weird because as seen in all the different micros there are TONS of talented artists at IDW who would have made good Duncan replacements.

I don't disagree, but why even stop the envelope at IDW? I would bet the farm there's a small armada of up-and-coming Jim Lee/Ethan Van Sciver-caliber artists out there who would love to work on a TMNT book. In fact, I know there is.

[Dirty Blond]

Splinter s in the preview.

Spoke too soon, but I try and not look at the previews, anway.

[frank_one]

Frankly, I don't care about the teeth that much.

[strugler]

Just posted my review of issue 13. Enjoy:

http://www.tmntlair.com/2012/08/22/review-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-13/

[Andrew NDB]

Man, these Turtle heads of Kuhn's have been reminding me of something. It's been bugging me for a while, but I think I know what it is now.

http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/images/sized/images/blog_uploads/Otter_581_Smiling-770x543.jpg

[Xav]

Lets just hope it doesnt look like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7829390016_649c3bb6b7.jpgI never noticed this before but why does Slash have a Z on his belt?

[Andrew NDB]

I never noticed this before but why does Slash have a Z on his belt?

Since he's an alien I always just figured that an "S" in whatever alien written language his people practice happens to look like a "Z." Or maybe he flips it around intentionally because either, A) He is a little mental and doesn't realize it's backwards, or B) He's just that badass.

[CyberCubed]

I really wish Slash wasn't debuting in an Andy issue. Its going to ruin our first impression of what IDW Slash is like.

I'll say it again, the Slash on #16's cover by Ross Campbell is going to look a billion times better than what he looks like inside the book by Andy.

It reminds me of Tales V.2, Michael Dooney would draw this beautiful frontipiece that set the mood for the issue and then we went from that to Jim Lawson's style and the feeling was lost. Granted I am saying this as a fan of Lawson's art, his Turtles are fantastic, but given the choice between the two I would have went with Dooney.

[Andrew NDB]

It might be Leatherhead.

[Jephael]

I just took a look at the preview, and I don't understand what the big fuss is all about. I kinda like the artwork for this issue!

[nelodiavolo]

Separated at birth?

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/NeloDiavolo/themaxx1.jpg

I added mad photoshop skills.:trazz:

But while I do think the new style looks like a bunch of Maxx's, it still looks good to me. A change in style keeps things fresh.

[Toby Barrett]

You know, it's a bit like the Hedden/McWeeney Mirage material... except those guys were intentionally trying to make the Turtles look ridiculous.

I think that right there is my major issue with Andy's art.
His style I feel went perfectly well with the Michelangelo micro, because it was just a fun little heist comic, and I think the artstyle added to that.
But here, it's supposed to be a serious story, with Splinter teaching Raph the "true way of the ninja" and Casey bruised up from parental abuse...

And it's being drawn by someone who just doesn't really fit the bill for that kind of story telling...

[CyberCubed]

The artwork is seriously impacting my enjoyment of this issue.

If only Dan Duncan did it I would probably enjoy it 100% more. (And yes, I know Duncan was taking a break around this time even if he didn't leave entirely).

[MikeandRaph87]

The artwork is seriously impacting my enjoyment of this issue.

If only Dan Duncan did it I would probably enjoy it 100% more. (And yes, I know Duncan was taking a break around this time even if he didn't leave entirely).

If Kuhn can change the way he draws the turtles' teeth it will be fine. Its just that bit which bugs me.


So having read the issue...
-Karai mentions she resurrected The Shredder

-Shredder thinks despite her success as his second-in-command he needs someone else. Who?

-Baxter wakes up seemingly 100% human and discovers Krang's real form while we see along with Baxter Krang's "family" or those like him. Utroms or clones? I am leaning towards the former.

-Raphael wants to defend his friend Caasey Jones by beating Casey's drunken blowhard of a father to death,but Splinter intervenes to teach his father how to raise a son. Its funny seeing a rat give fatherly advise.Though he does have a sai at his throat to force his attention.

[Plasticplayhouse]

It reminds me of Tales V.2, Michael Dooney would draw this beautiful frontipiece that set the mood for the issue and then we went from that to Jim Lawson's style and the feeling was lost. Granted I am saying this as a fan of Lawson's art, his Turtles are fantastic, but given the choice between the two I would have went with Dooney.


in all fairness to Jim (who's work i am a fan of) his stuff looks a lot better when he inks it than when the majority of others have inked it. when he inks it, you get the full effect of his work and its got pizzaz.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3274964743/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3696761725/

others...not so much


Separated at birth?

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/NeloDiavolo/themaxx1.jpg

I added mad photoshop skills.:trazz:

But while I do think the new style looks like a bunch of Maxx's, it still looks good to me. A change in style keeps things fresh.

lol

[corvus]

Looks like a fantastic issue too bad comixology won't let me download it.

[Slade]

Read the issue thought it was good. The end actually had me do a double take.

As for the art? Well...every character EXCEPT the turtles looked good. It's not even just the teeth. Their entire heads just look strange. A panel on page 3 with Raph's head had took me out of the book for a second or two. Enough complaining about the art though, I still enjoyed the issue.

By the way, anyone have Cover B they'd maybe trade for A? Just tossing that out there.

[Matches Malone]

I thought the issue was pretty solid. I'll give Tom this, he's got a really nice finesse handling and setting up multiple storylines. It's mostly the payoff I tend to be let down by. Again, I'm intrigued and excited for what's to follow with Baxter/Krang, Shredder/Karai and Raph/Splinter.

I also thought Karai had a really nice character moment displaying that she's not blindly obedient to Saki. I wonder who he has in mind for second in command? BEBOP OR ROCKSTEADY? Kidding. I hope.

Regarding the art, I actually enjoyed it for the most part. The turtles look a little off, yes, but with how warped their heads were becoming with Duncan, these are preferred at the moment. I'm bothered more by the sloppily tied belts, to be honest. Still, it's a little sad it's so though to get a mainstay artist who can consistently turn in good work for the monthly series. It's a tall order but let's hope whoever is chosen as the permanent replacement is up to the task!

[frank_one]

I'm bothered more by the sloppily tied belts, to be honest.
The turtles have also lost the band around the wrist and around their feet.

Anyway, I enjoyed the art in this issue. Probably not the best style I've seen so far in a IDW TMNT book (I used to love Dan Dancan's), but I can live with that.

[Lampy]

I also thought Karai had a really nice character moment displaying that she's not blindly obedient to Saki. I wonder who he has in mind for second in command? BEBOP OR ROCKSTEADY? Kidding. I hope.

I hope it's Tatsu. That would be awesome.:D

[Andrew NDB]

I hope it's Tatsu too. It wouldn't make sense for Saki to promote some mutant to second in command... unless we start seeing human-to-mutant mutations already.

[CyberCubed]

Karai not being blindly loyal to Shredder seems like set-up to eventually turn on him. Very similar to 4kids Karai.

[ToTheNines]

My money is on Hun. I'm sure he's showing up soon regardless.

[Lampy]

Karai not being blindly loyal to Shredder seems like set-up to eventually turn on him. Very similar to 4kids Karai.

This story is just getting good. and if this is a set up for tatsu and karai turning on shredder... then the OT influence won't be so overpowering as it is right now. but again... this is getting good.

My money is on Hun. I'm sure he's showing up soon regardless.

Hun is not a bad idea too... but i'd prefer Hun to take over the Purple Dragons and corrupt that gang into turning bad.

[CyberCubed]

Didn't someone speculate Hun might be Angel's father? I think in her debut issue Casey said his father got drunk at Angel's father's place.

[MikeandRaph87]

This story is just getting good. and if this is a set up for tatsu and karai turning on shredder... then the OT influence won't be so overpowering as it is right now. but again... this is getting good.

Some of us want a strong '87 cartoon influence and I do like how Karai waivers between good and evil so its like having cake and eating it too. The '87 cartoon is what is most interesting to me since that is heads and shoulder above everything in my personal rankings! Glad to see characters being used and adapted in all new directions at last!

Tatsu was who I was thinking when he said replacement. Though I have a feeling its wishful thinking. Would there be any other candidates? Apolex or another mutant?

[Lampy]

Some of us want a strong '87 cartoon influence and I do like how Karai waivers between good and evil so its like having cake and eating it too. The '87 cartoon is what is most interesting to me since that is heads and shoulder above everything in my personal rankings! Glad to see characters being used and adapted in all new directions at last!

Tatsu was who I was thinking when he said replacement. Though I have a feeling its wishful thinking. Would there be any other candidates? Apolex or another mutant?

i know the OT has great potential in comics and i like that they're incorporating a lot of the characters. but what i meant was... it's great to see other universe converge in this universe as well... like the 4kids and the movies and so on.

[Andrew NDB]

Karai not being blindly loyal to Shredder seems like set-up to eventually turn on him. Very similar to 4kids Karai.

In a way, not entirely dissimilar to Mirage. While she didn't turn on Shredder in that, per se, she did wage war against his Shredder Elite.

And I hope it's not Hun, though it wouldn't seem right if he didn't turn up at some point (I suspect in whatever eventual Purple Dragon story arc the Angel character is foreshadowing). I know the Shredder-Hun relationship worked to a lot of you on the cartoons, but it's hard to believe someone we're supposed to believe is a ninja master (and in this case, a very old-school one straight from Feudal Japan, even) would give the reins of "second in command" of his whole Clan to just some large gangbanging gaijin thug.

[MikeandRaph87]

i know the OT has great potential in comics and i like that they're incorporating a lot of the characters. but what i meant was... it's great to see other universe converge in this universe as well... like the 4kids and the movies and so on.

I see. I was afraid the series was going to have an overpowering influence of the black and white comics and nothing else. Seeing the '87 cartoon lead a variety of influences is refreshing and much more enjoyable. Its fun not knowing who is going to pop up and how all with play into the plot. Tatsu and Karai as father and daughter(?) or not would be a fun interaction to see. IDW is opening the doors to character interactions never thought of before. Like the above Krang being into the mix of the Fugi drama with The Federation and Triceratons.Okay, that to is speculation but I love guessing!:D

[Andrew NDB]

Its fun not knowing who is going to pop up and how all with play into the plot.

That, to me, is the least compelling element of IDW TMNT. "Who is going to pop up this month from the cartoons, reimagined?" I'd rather just get quality stories and world building to sell us on this universe, not refurbished recycling from others. Or at least a whole lot more of the former before double or triple dipping on the latter -- it needs to work on its own, even without Nostalgia Goggles, folks.

[Toby Barrett]

Nearly all of IDW's series are fueled by nostalgia however.

[Samhain]

Some of us want a strong '87 cartoon influence and I do like how Karai waivers between good and evil so its like having cake and eating it too. The '87 cartoon is what is most interesting to me since that is heads and shoulder above everything in my personal rankings! Glad to see characters being used and adapted in all new directions at last!

Tatsu was who I was thinking when he said replacement. Though I have a feeling its wishful thinking. Would there be any other candidates? Apolex or another mutant?
I can't wait for one of the turtles kill someone and you complain and drop the book.
In a way, not entirely dissimilar to Mirage. While she didn't turn on Shredder in that, per se, she did wage war against his Shredder Elite.

And I hope it's not Hun, though it wouldn't seem right if he didn't turn up at some point (I suspect in whatever eventual Purple Dragon story arc the Angel character is foreshadowing). I know the Shredder-Hun relationship worked to a lot of you on the cartoons, but it's hard to believe someone we're supposed to believe is a ninja master (and in this case, a very old-school one straight from Feudal Japan, even) would give the reins of "second in command" of his whole Clan to just some large gangbanging gaijin thug.

Well said.

[Jester]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Similarstyles.jpg
Thoughts?

[Toby Barrett]

When can we get to the IDW version of Chris Allan?

[Jester]

Well....lets see. Issue 23 or 30? But does the change from Duncan to Kuhn equate to the Mitchroney to Lawson shift?

[MikeandRaph87]

I can't wait for one of the turtles kill someone and you complain and drop the book.

:roll:Not complain just quietly drop it.Its not the turtles way and you know it.It may have been in the black and white comics but that has long evolved past. I try to hold friendly conversations with you so I don't know why you bait me.Different preferences for different folks and we are all passionate.


Anyone surprised by Baxter waking up with no body part of him missing or no mutation of any kind? Or perhaps it just has shown yet.Its time Baxter did the bullying!

[Jephael]

When can we get to the IDW version of Chris Allan?

I sorta felt Dan Duncan was the IDW equivanant of Archie's Chris Allan.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN 19]

The idw Foot Logo is exactly like the 4KIDS one as you can see in the panel where Shredder is sitting on his throne. Another 4kids element! I was also suprised that Baxter is not yet mutated but we know for sure that something will happen to him soon or late. Cant wait for next issue!!

[oldmanwinters]

As much as I hate the way Kuhn's artistic representations of the Turtles look in isolated panels, I have to admit that his art style didn't really bother me so much after those first 6 pages.

He does a passable job on the human characters and I loved the way all those Utrom...er...Kraang..er...pinkish, brain-like aliens look on the splash page.

The absolute artistic lowpoint of this issue for me was Leonardo's expression on the bottom left panel of page 3. Kuhn absolutely fails to communicate anything close to what the word bubble suggests.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Similarstyles.jpg
Thoughts?

Muhahah! It's so true!

Well....lets see. Issue 23 or 30? But does the change from Duncan to Kuhn equate to the Mitchroney to Lawson shift?
Jim Lawson was awfully sneaky in the 90s. Sometimes he could just appear in the middle of the comic you were reading!

[rx781a]

The art reminds me of mike mignola. i like it but sincerely hope that ross campbell will return to turtles

[DrSpengler]

A day late, but here's my review of TMNT #13 at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/08/tmnt-idw-13.html)

I'm friggin' PSYCHED to see the Krang arc finally go start moving along after a year of spinning its wheels. The bit of background on Karai and the Foot Clan was good, too. Though, if she's such a prodigy and so competent, it makes her humiliatingly easy defeat at the hands of the Turtles last issue all the more confusing.

Or I guess Shredder's right; she really ISN'T ready.


And I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I just don't dig Kuhn's art. His layout is great and his people all look fine; great body language and facial expressions.

It's just the way he renders the Turtles' faces. Those huge dimples/cheekbones and the idiotic grins. They look absurd. Perhaps if he changed that I wouldn't feel so critically about his work, but I'm just not digging it yet.

Anyway, I'm liking the story so far and jeez, I just want to see where the Krang stuff is going. That's been my Number 1 interest since this book began.

[Heather Breckel]

I like the style with the exception of the teeth of course. I really like that Ronda did a different style for the colors. While it's not drastically different from what she usually does, I appreciate that she works differently with different people's lines.

[Venom]

It's late, and I'm petering out so this is really short:

I like Kuhn's noirish/pulpish art style, but not the TMNTeeth. :]

[Plasticplayhouse]

I hope it's Tatsu too. It wouldn't make sense for Saki to promote some mutant to second in command... unless we start seeing human-to-mutant mutations already.

i'd much rather see tatsu than hun. i've always respected the tatsu character, even though he originated from the movie. hun...i just never could get into the character.

i like kuhn's art, but yeah those teeth gotta go. hopefully he'll get word and do some redesign on how he draws teeth.

krang and the utroms were great! i loved how he drew them. baxter was pretty great too. i even like his splinter. but splinter is a rat with big buck teeth so i guess his art style wouldnt have a negative impact on that character anyway, lol.

[FoxZerro]

Tatsu and Karai as father and daughter(?) or not would be a fun interaction to see.

I would like to see them not related. Especially because Karai's Father was responsible for the decline of the Foot Clan and as much as I am for the reimagining of characters I would be disappointed if they took Tatsu and made him unfit to lead.


Other than that I really thought the art worked for the story, yes the teeth were distracting, horrifically distracting, but I don't know the turtles in general felt more menacing to me. Like why yes we do have the muscle to back up our skills, shall we dance. Still it is a radical shift from what we were getting from Duncan so I can completely understand the uproar.

I was super happy that Baxter and Krang came back into the picture. I was afraid they would be forgotten in the whole "Paying for your Actions or How Casey got his Groove back" arc.

Finally one complaint. April's reaction to Casey not telling her he had an abusive Father was ill timed. The kid is sitting there after having his ass kicked and you're going to come up and pile on with the whole "I though we were friends, you should have told me, you don't like me as much as I like you, blah blah blah" speech. I would get it a little way down the line but to have it happen on the same day Casey just dragged himself into the store, not to mention that they really don't seem like they've known each other that long considering the last four issues took place in a day. I just couldn't see it as the big betrayal April made it out to be, it was just bad form and the the first thing that IDW April has done that really made me dislike the character.

I think what really just made it ludicrous is that April equated trust as her telling Casey about her Father having a stroke. That was clearly a reveal of the love that she has for her Dad, it would have actually been a real asshole move if Casey had come back with something along the lines of "I wish my Dad would have a stroke then maybe he would stop beating me like a red headed step child and we can be a family again." Heck, even if he put it in more delicate terms it would have been the wrong time to bring it up. Then between storming Ninja Headquarters, Saving his friend's Father, and you know getting beaten to a pulp by his own Father. Casey didn't exactly have the opportunity to share something so intimate about himself with her.

[Ninjinister]

I didn't really think about that April thing, but you're right, that does seem kind of odd.

Also the "your poor face" line just seemed... off.

[wedestroymyths]

Finally one complaint. April's reaction to Casey not telling her he had an abusive Father was ill timed. The kid is sitting there after having his ass kicked and you're going to come up and pile on with the whole "I though we were friends, you should have told me, you don't like me as much as I like you, blah blah blah" speech. I would get it a little way down the line but to have it happen on the same day Casey just dragged himself into the store, not to mention that they really don't seem like they've known each other that long considering the last four issues took place in a day. I just couldn't see it as the big betrayal April made it out to be, it was just bad form and the the first thing that IDW April has done that really made me dislike the character.


I had the same response. I gave it a bit of leeway because I figured they might have done it for pacing reasons--you know, trying to progress the story more quickly than the brief passage of time in each issue really allows--but I hope that this type of emotional shorthand doesn't become a regular thing because it was very off-putting.

[DrSpengler]

I had an odd feeling about that scene, too. Particularly April's response after Casey apologizes and admits he was wrong not to tell her. "Yes, you were". Way to drill it in there, April.

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

We don't really know all that much about the personality of IDW's April, despite a year's worth of stories including her (I guess we can thank the pacing for that), so I didn't see her attitude in that scene as necessarily being out of character. But that's just because we don't know the depth of her character yet.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

[TomWaltz]

I had an odd feeling about that scene, too. Particularly April's response after Casey apologizes and admits he was wrong not to tell her. "Yes, you were". Way to drill it in there, April.

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

We don't really know all that much about the personality of IDW's April, despite a year's worth of stories including her (I guess we can thank the pacing for that), so I didn't see her attitude in that scene as necessarily being out of character. But that's just because we don't know the depth of her character yet.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

Ahh... but there's more to it than just being a "bit of a bitch." April's angry, yeah... but from a good, caring place inside her heart, not a bad, unfeeling one.

Tune in next issue.

(But be sure to get the great APRIL one-shot in between!)

Tom W.

[wedestroymyths]

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

I am/was really hoping this wasn't the case, because these types of misogynistic, hateful characterizations of women who are strong and care are tired, lazy, and offensive. I mean, c'mon, that's what crummy sitcoms are for, right--to constantly remind us that men are stupid but awesome and women are mean but begrudgingly necessary?

I'd rather a sloppy/rushed characterization than a hateful one.

That being said, TomWaltz's response has put me at ease--I'm glad it was being thought of as April coming from a good, caring place, even if it wasn't handled as smoothly as it might have been.

[oldmanwinters]

(But be sure to get the great APRIL one-shot in between!)



You don't have to tell me twice, Tom!

Has the continuity of the April one-shot been established yet?

[Bobby Curnow]

Hmm, that's interesting take on April's line. I can see how it can be read that way.

I read it as firm and strong, but loving. Casey has developed bad habits— basically letting his Dad beat him and not doing anything about it— and April is saying "that has to stop" in no uncertain terms. Making sure Casey doesn't put himself in danger again comes before being a supportive friend.

But yeah, that's fair— we could have worded it better, made that more clear.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

But yeah, that's fair— we could have worded it better, made that more clear.

Emphasis added to the word "we" by CJJ.

Don't ever feel like you need to defend your crew, Bobby. I haven't read the issue yet-- but all that is really important is that April is written correctly. She's ALWAYS been a bit of a bitch, but in a good way. That's kind of the point of April-- her uniqueness.

[TomWaltz]

Emphasis added to the word "we" by CJJ.

Don't ever feel like you need to defend your crew, Bobby. I haven't read the issue yet-- but all that is really important is that April is written correctly. She's ALWAYS been a bit of a bitch, but in a good way. That's kind of the point of April-- her uniqueness.

Ironically, I see April (in this scene) as the proxy for a lot of readers -- the readers who have been asking why the hell Casey is letting this happen to himself. I mean, his reasons are noble (he made a promise to his dying mom, whom he loved very much), but c'mon, already, Casey! This is getting ridiculous now! You're gonna get yourself killed, noble or not! We've all wanted to shout that at Casey... and our fave redhead (and, folks, understand this... I adore April O'Neil! Easily one of my favorite pop culture characters of all time!) is finally doing it for us, while Raph and Splinter are...

Well, like I said, tune into issue #14 for more!

And thanks for continuing to read and analyze our stories, folks! Very much appreciated!

Tom W.

[DrSpengler]

I think a character hammering some sense into Casey was definitely needed. It was more the timing and the context of her "Yes, you were" line didn't quite convey that idea as intuitively.

It wasn't, "Yes, you were wrong to not ask for help" or "yes, you were wrong to let the abuse go on this long". It was, or read this way due to her timing, "Yes, you were wrong not to include ME in this situation because I thought you trusted ME more that that".

April's line made it sound like she was trying to make the situation about HERSELF and that sort of sets of some unpleasant alarms in peoples' heads when reading her.

Under the context that she was more brow-beating Casey for not getting help from those closest to him by sharing his situation, that seems perfectly in line with April's "den mother" characterization that's existed in all forms of TMNT media since the very beginning. But the way she segued from a lecture about "why didn't you tell ME? *I* should have been told about this! Don't you trust ME?" to brow-beating Casey into admitting he was wrong didn't quite convey that aspect of concern for his situation, rahter it felt like she was more concerned abotu her own ego.

Obviously we are analyzing the dialogue rather extensively, you're right. It's just how the framing of said dialogue can completely alter the intent for some readers and create an atmosphere entirely unintended.

[Bobby Curnow]

I think that's a fair read. Could have been handled better. For me, it's one of those things where you read it one way in your head, and then someone says "well, sounds like this" and you're like "oh, yeah. I see that."

[Jester]

That's exactly what I thought. It felt like one more barb thrown at an already contrite Casey. It came of, to me, like she was more upset by him not telling her, than because he let his dad pummel him.

[Redeemer]

I just picked up this issue after work and I have read it already. I loved the issue overal bc it had the foot, krang, and the turtles of course, a nice diverse, broken up issue. I enjoyed the writing, when I heard what the up coming arc was going to be about I was a little let down, but this issue exceeded my expections.

The art though.....It didn't bother me as much, but that is bc the story telling was so good. I do not like the buck tooth look as many others have stated, but my biggest gripe is the lack of detail overal and just the style in general......

But like I said the story telling really brought it in for me.

[Vegeta]

How long will this guy be doing the art for tmnt? I hate it. So many good artists with the micro series and at idw and they go with the worst artist who has worked on the new tmnt imo. Missing Duncan already

[Jester]

Yep, this totally need a thread...

[Vegeta]

Yep, this totally need a thread...

Yep. Totally needed this sentence

[DonatelloFan]

You talking about Andy Kuhn? Yeah, it's been discussed somewhere. Most (including me) HATE how he draws the Turtles' teeth. I haven't seen the entire issue, but just from what I've seen so far, I'm not liking it.

I'm holding my breath for David Petersen to do an entire issue.

And I'm no Duncan fan, either. But I'd rather have him any day.

[Vegeta]

Yeah kuhns the guy. With guys like Kent Williams doing cover art for idw I think the turtles deserve a little more love than this

[oldmanwinters]

Here ya go:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38832

The convenient one-stop place for all your Issue 13 love and/or hate.

[Jester]

But Winters, we need a specific thread to totally bash on Kuhn.

[oldmanwinters]

But Winters, we need a specific thread to totally bash on Kuhn.

Here's Andy Kuhn's blog:
http://kuhnart.blogspot.com/

I say if somebody really wants to offer critiques about Kuhn's Turtle art, then be a man and go to source to do it. ;-)

[DonatelloFan]

Here's Andy Kuhn's blog:
http://kuhnart.blogspot.com/

I say if somebody really wants to offer critiques about Kuhn's Turtle art, then be a man and go to source to do it. ;-)

He draws the way he does, he isn't going to change it because some don't like it. Constructive criticism is always good, but he's an artist. Some just don't like it.

[funatic]

I wish they looked a little more like the Leo he posted on his blog:

http://kuhnart.blogspot.com/2012/08/tmnt-leonardo.html

still not my favorite rendition, but at least he doesn't look like he needs an orthodontist appointment.

The turtles are clearly the biggest gripe. I thought he did a nice job with the action sequences, particularly the fight between Shredder & Karai, and Splinter looks pretty bada$$ on that final page.

[Vegeta]

I have to say the best art/coloring out of the idw stuff so far has to be in the raphael micro series. That was some awesome stuff :tgrin:

[chrisdude]

So, I'm kind new to following comics as they come out... But this guy Kuhn has taken over? Like, he's the artist from here on out? Cause I thought the other issues looked amazing. I don't hate the look of #13, but I don't like it.

Now Leo's issue - that looked awesome. My favorite of all I've seen.

[ToTheNines]

Kuhn's doing at least 3 more issues.

[Jester]

So, I'm kind new to following comics as they come out... But this guy Kuhn has taken over? Like, he's the artist from here on out? Cause I thought the other issues looked amazing. I don't hate the look of #13, but I don't like it.

Now Leo's issue - that looked awesome. My favorite of all I've seen.
Not sure. I know he was filling in for Duncan while he took a break, but that break became a permanent new job, so I'm not sure who may fill in once Kuhn's...is it 4 issues?...are done.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Originally I think it was just two, that turned into four as of now. However they haven't said someone is replacing him so we might have him for a while. I'd love for Campbell to become the normal artist.

[Donnie]

You know, it's a bit like the Hedden/McWeeney Mirage material... except those guys were intentionally trying to make the Turtles look ridiculous.

This is also how the issue came off to me, because of the art. I'm not a fan, for reasons stated throughout this thread. It doesn't fit the more series tone the story is going with. Kuhn is not a bad artist, he's very good; in his own style. However, when the Turtles were talking, I wanted to see the IDW TMNT before me but it just didn't seem right. I guess I have to get used to Kuhn for a few issues, but I do hope they go with somebody else for the permanent artist.

That being said, his humans looked cool, and I really like the way he draws Splinter. It's really just the Turtles I have a problem with, which is kind of why I read TMNT in the first place, so it's presenting a little bit of a road-block with me.

I'm looking forward to a little Splinter/Raph bonding time; we need a re-imagining of the brilliant movie 1 dialogue between the two. I really enjoyed their bond in said film.

[Marksenad]

I hated the art in 13, after reading Micro April then jumping to 13. It feels like it was a first draft, a quick sketch. but it never improved. Sorry Andy Kuhn but it was horrible and i really hope it will improve. Marley Zarcone did an awesome job IMO

[RskimB]

I really liked how the story advanced in this issue. I found Kuhn's art to be a major distraction though, his style doesnt appeal to me. His turtlesI thought were too clunky and the teeth issue of course... April and Casey were also poor imo. His other designs worked though. I hope a more suitable replacement is found for #18 and beyond.