Why Do People Hate Venus So Much?

[Donatello19]

Why do most TMNT fans hate Venus de milo (from the next mutation) so much? I can understand that people don't like the idea of a 5th turtle, but Venus isn't such a bad character in my opinion. Most people focus too much on the "5th Turtle" aspect instead of Venus herself. I think that the character gets too much hate. What do you guys think?

[TurtleTitan97]

It was because she was a poorly handled character on the show.

[Donatello19]

It was because she was a poorly handled character on the show.

That may be true, but some people act like she is the worst thing that ever happened in TMNT

[gobo]

She was handled better than the other characters. IMO, she's given a bum rap because she's the poster child of the TMNT franchise's time 'sleeping with the enemy' (Saban).

EDIT: Don't you DARE accuse me of defending her. :trazz:

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'd agree that the hate goes too far probably - I've seen some people play the 'ruined forever' card, and really, if an additional character that exists in only ONE incarnation ruins the rest of something you love, you're taking it far too seriously.

That said though, she's definitely not handled very well at all in the series from what I remember. I would not be against a new take on the character that tried something new with her though.

Also, the whole 'shinobi and ninja are two different things' bit always irked me.

[mikey22]

she had horrible jokes and dialogue

no one really was interested in the shinobi

it made her stronger than all 4 original ninja turtles


it was cool for a twist and fresh idea but poorly utilized.. then again that whole show stunk anyways lol

[psych23232323]

I didn't particularly hate Venus really.

I guess the dialogue and how she was handled cause they did the gimmick of "I'm a foreigner and don't know certain customs." cause I think she lived in a temple her whole life or something like that.

But I didn't like the show really.

One in particular is when Donatello was brainwashed to doing crime. What the heck does wearing a black eye mask over a purple one accomplish?!

[Victorsaurus]

She's my second favorite TMNT character.
(please respect this, no questions please)

Anyways, like the other members said
5th turtle shows up, because of her for some reasons they are not related (how did they even figure it out? DNA test?), shinobi, to me she always had a clueless voice.
She's was new there, but maybe in a second season she could have developed more.

[Jester]

I think for me it was the whole "Oh, we're not brothers!" bit that did it for me. it was a ploy to take Venus from sister to potential love interest. That's icky. That and she took out Shredder (not to mention the boys themselves) singlehandedly. Then there's the forced culture shock/misinterpretation of American slang/metaphors. That and adding the "Oh, where were 5 turtles, Splinter just missed one..." to the origin seems off.

Sorry, Victorsaurus, but I've gotta ask: Why is Venus your 2nd favorite?

[Powder]

She's a Mary-Sue sh*tty deviantart tier character. I don't hate her conceptutally, she was just handled extremely poorly.

[Lance_Steele]

She's a Mary-Sue sh*tty deviantart tier character. I don't hate her conceptutally, she was just handled extremely poorly.

I agree.

Never hated her but I wish they fleshed her out better like it was stated better. Had she been on equal terms with the turtles she would have more love. And also wouldn't she be considered kunoichi than a shinobi?

[CyberCubed]

We just don't need a girl turtle, period.

[sdp]

I've posted the reasons why a ton of times but I'll do it again, so if you've read this before just skip it.

Venus is used as a scapegoat for TNM.

The 5th turtle, people just don't like having a 5th turtle and are very vocal about it regardless of whether she was a good character or not. Also the fact that she's a girl get's people angry, get's even more people to dislike her. Also the fact that TNM is not a great show people just seem to want to blame the new character from that show.

Ironically Venus is the best handled character in the show, she is never made the annoying character people make her out to be. Also the "we're not brothers" is also blown out of proportion since after the first or second episode the turtles never show any interest in Venus.

Sadly she likely will never appear because of the negative stigma surrounding her just like scrappy doo in Scooby Doo, even though Scrappy pretty much saved the franchise at one point and was only super annoying in certain seasons not his first or last appearances. She had an interesting background and could've made an much more compelling character that sadly we'll never see again.

[Leo656]

Those poll options don't accurately reflect my feelings either way. :ohwell:

I'm always of the Grant Morrison mindset that says "There are NO bad characters or ideas, just badly executed ones." I think Venus could have worked, although probably only in a context like TNM or even the OT. I don't think even the idea itself would have fit in well with Mirage's universe, but who knows? Archie's universe could have made it work, possibly.

I think it was just the entire show was bad, and that NOTHING about it was done with any real care. None of the characters or ideas were done well, in either writing or execution. I don't think the character itself was blasphemy.

If Venus showed up in another incarnation I wouldn't necessarily hate it. I'd prefer she not be so closely connected to their origins, and especially not over-powered to the point where the other guys become guest stars in their own universe.

Anyone else think the "Smoking Hot Turtle Chick" Mikey meets at the end of the aborted TMNT script was gonna be named "Venus"? I'd be shocked if that wasn't the plan when they wrote it.

[gobo]

She's my second favorite TMNT character.
(please respect this, no questions please)
O_o Why not? :tconfuse:

...

Oh, wait! That's a question. Apologies! Disregard! :tanime:

[ssjup81]

I had no problem with Venus' character. Lots of potential and all that. I guess the only problem was how she was executed, not necessarily the character itself. Her background was interesting to me.I agree.

Never hated her but I wish they fleshed her out better like it was stated better. Had she been on equal terms with the turtles she would have more love. And also wouldn't she be considered kunoichi than a shinobi?Shinobi is pretty much unisex, to my knowledge, but yeah, Kunoichi would've been better to use given she was a "female ninja".Sadly she likely will never appear because of the negative stigma surrounding her just like scrappy doo in Scooby Doo, even though Scrappy pretty much saved the franchise at one point and was only super annoying in certain seasons not his first or last appearances. You know, I never thought of Scrappy as really annoying. He was a puppy so it was expected for him to be hyper and jumping in headfirst into situations. Only thing I hated was the dynamic change. I found that more annoying than Scrappy.Those poll options don't accurately reflect my feelings either way. :ohwell:

I'm always of the Grant Morrison mindset that says "There are NO bad characters or ideas, just badly executed ones." I think Venus could have worked, although probably only in a context like TNM or even the OT. I don't think even the idea itself would have fit in well with Mirage's universe, but who knows? Archie's universe could have made it work, possibly.

I think it was just the entire show was bad, and that NOTHING about it was done with any real care. None of the characters or ideas were done well, in either writing or execution. I don't think the character itself was blasphemy.

If Venus showed up in another incarnation I wouldn't necessarily hate it. I'd prefer she not be so closely connected to their origins, and especially not over-powered to the point where the other guys become guest stars in their own universe.

Anyone else think the "Smoking Hot Turtle Chick" Mikey meets at the end of the aborted TMNT script was gonna be named "Venus"? I'd be shocked if that wasn't the plan when they wrote it.You know, I think this describes Venus perfectly for me. I just couldn't word it as well.

[plasticturtle]

I don't really hate Venus. Done well she may have been an interesting character. The problem is nothing about TNM was done well. I only caught a couple episodes when it was running, mainly because that was all I could stomach.

[pannoni1]

Unfortuantely, I feel that Venus fell through the cracks of two main camps- one supporting a goofy side that just doesn't quite come through as corny resulting in boring jokes, and also the camp that makes her a true Fifth Turtle that blends in with the chemistry of the others. She remains the Mary Sue of the franchise and I feel Saban wanted five because that's how many Power Rangers there are in normal circumstances. I also didn't like Venus' voice as well. You know she isn't going to be liked when the top Youtube search result for "ninja turtles venus" is "Ninja Turtles without Venus- Unchain My Heart". It is quite ironic that the last episode of NTNM is Who Needs Her, though part of the hate might have come from the main Turtles disrespecting her, especially in that final episode, forcing Venus to lose her mind and lose her trust against the guys.

[KirkyMonster]

I remember reading a comic from the Archie series as a kid where in April mutated into a Turtle and wore a white head band and elbow and knee pads and fought beside the Turtles in that issue. I was shocked to see April get mutated but not shocked to see another Ninja Turtle. Between Slash, Mutant Turtle April, Venus and Kirby one thing that is apparent to me is there will always be another 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th Turtle around the corner. Venus was just handled poorly on a poorly handled show that I equate to the campy Adam West Batman TV show.

[gobo]

^ You forgot Tokka.

[Slade]

I really just don't like there being another turtle in the group. I don't mind there being villain turtles though. Slash, Tokka. They are fine with me. I just like sticking to the 4 heroes...and one rat.

[Candy Kappa]

The concept of Venus is interesting, I'd love to see it done properly.

But in TNM she was Mary Sue galore all the way.

[Loudo]

I'm currently watching the whole series.

I tried to be open minded about Venus, but by the end of the 2nd episode I already hated her.
I mean, in the first episode she meets the other Turtles, she:

casually defeats all four of them by herself;
claims not to be a ninja but a master of interior arts, still she fights better than a ninja (so much that she doesn't even need a weapon);
permanently defeats the Turtles' archnemesis, again by herself.
Seriously, how can you not hate her?

Also, what is her personality? I don't think "magical girl" qualifies as a personality.

[gobo]

Point 3 didn't take.

[tmnt transformer]

Venus would be better as alternate dimention tmnt character not a main one..........

[gobo]

There were only 4 Ninja Turtles in The Next mutation, as Venus is the lone Shinobi Turtle. Also, it's in the Power Rangers' universe. How is that not alternate? O_o

[Loudo]

Leo, Don, Raph and Mikey just fought some Foot Ninjas in episode #2. They didn't have any part in the Shredder's defeat.

Venus vs the Shredder (without his goons) = Venus casts her spell, the Shredder is no more. No sweat!

All four TMNT vs the Shredder = The Shredder kicks the Turtles' asses, unless he falls from buildings (1st movie) or docks (2nd movie). And even if he does, he's back for the next episode.

[gobo]

I guess ya didn't know there was an ep where he came back. I didn't either until I marathoned this poor excuse for entertainment on Netflix.

[Loudo]

Does he? This gives me hope. :D

I did say I'm still watching the series. I've watched the first 12 episodes so far.
I read somewhere the Dragon Lord was the main villain of the series, so I had assumed the Shredder was gone forever.

[Jester]

Does he? This gives me hope. :D

I did say I'm still watching the series. I've watched the first 12 episodes so far.
I read somewhere the Dragon Lord was the main villain of the series, so I had assumed the Shredder was gone forever.
Nope, Saki shows up again. Might be one of the better episodes....which ain't saying much.

EDIT: Episode 17: Enemy of My Enemy.

[Logan]

The character just comes off as contrived and unnecessary. Something to appeal to little girls and appease feminists who read into everything as being an example of men dominating women.

[tmnt transformer]

There were only 4 Ninja Turtles in The Next mutation, as Venus is the lone Shinobi Turtle. Also, it's in the Power Rangers' universe. How is that not alternate? O_o

What if there was a storyline where the 4 turtles meet Venus( She could be from dimension X or a creation made by Shredder or Krang) and then could team up once and while.......

[Mona_Lisa]

I tried to watch this (the next mutation) on Netflix, I just couldn't.... It was so awful!!!!

[tmnt transformer]

A friend of mine started to watch that......I herd some of it....and I had to leave the room......I'd rather watch Sonic Underground.....

[chrisdude]

I just think the magic bit was lame. I hated that far more than Venus, herself.

[Koi]

I love sonic underground.

Venus isn't that bad.

[gobo]

She could be from dimension X or a creation made by Gargamel
What an original concept! :P

[Redeemer]

To all those who dont like the idea of venus or even the idea of venus well this might change your mind!!!

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=TMNT+Venus#/d2jp0rp

Credit due to our very own Mooncalfe aka Ross Campbell

I hated the plasteron breast and just could not imagine who being drawn well at all, but Ross has proved me wrong.
The bad thing is I actuallly criticized his work in the Leo Micro lol

[zkarlette]

What an original concept! :P

Yep... But I don't think Gargamel could posibly be that evil.

[Jester]

To all those who dont like the idea of venus or even the idea of venus well this might change your mind!!!

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=TMNT+Venus#/d2jp0rp

Credit due to our very own Mooncalfe aka Ross Campbell

I hated the plasteron breast and just could not imagine who being drawn well at all, but Ross has proved me wrong.
The bad thing is I actuallly criticized his work in the Leo Micro lol
Ross' Venus is ok, but the rest of those Venus pics just make me loathe her all the more, actually.

[ryukenden]

Venus really gets all the hate because she was portrayed as the only sane Turtle while the main Turtles were portrayed as obnoxious clowns. In a show where not even Leo isn't taken seriously, it's going to be very bad. It's like all of Leo's stoic virtues were just given to Venus.

[Allio]

I don't hate Venus, I just don't think they really developed her character that much, but I think she had some good lines

I do feel she is a bit sueish, but that is only because it seems shows that even has magical users in the minority even then those characters feel sueish... though I guess having her in training helped, and she does feel as bad as a character I won't named... T.S.

it does irk me she beat the four ninjas. Her style of fighting should of shown more struggling (which you can see it at times, even with part of the Space Fight). As for the Shredder thing, meh... they wanted to get rid of him and bring in Dragon Skull, they just chose the wrong way (THEY NEED A NEW WAY!)... though from what I heard Shredder was suppose to be back the next season, so technically he wasn't defeated, just put on hiatus

I mostly blame Saban that this was their first "own" show that didn't rely on another franchise so they can take a look and see how to do it

[Sage Ninja]

The character just comes off as contrived and unnecessary. Something to appeal to little girls and appease feminists who read into everything as being an example of men dominating women.

...reaching much? :lol:

most girls hate venus and most of the time the, "lets through in a girl character into an all boy cast for the hell of it," cliche is is genrally disliked by girls, since the token girl is usually pitiful at best or a stupid female stereotype at worst (love interest). It's on the same level of throwing in a kid character in an all adult cast just for kids to identify with. Annoying. Think Jade from Jackie Chan adventures. I wanted her to just f*cken die...

[ctt4lfecw]

It was a froced down our throats decision made by execs who thought the series needed more female representation. The Turtles are 4 bros, that's where it ends. Don't mess up the chemistry.

[gobo]

Venus really gets all the hate because she was portrayed as the only sane Turtle while the main Turtles were portrayed as obnoxious clowns. In a show where not even Leo isn't taken seriously, it's going to be very bad. It's like all of Leo's stoic virtues were just given to Venus.
^ So agreed...
most of the time the, "lets through in a girl character into an all boy cast for the hell of it," cliche is is genrally disliked by girls
And me. Not saying that Venus ticked me off that way after I actually watched this atrocity, but that was how I thought of her for years: just a lame attempt at gender-equality.

[CyberCubed]

In her first 4 eps meeting the Turtles, she literally saves them in every episode:

- Defeats Shredder
- Takes them to the Dreamworld to find Splinter
- Lifts Dragon Lord's foot from crushing Splinter
- Read characters minds

She literally was a plot device in these early episodes, I'll have to watch the rest of my DVD to see how she was handled in the others though.

[Jephael]

It's funny how people are always complaining about how the new show by Nickelodeon and the Michael Bay film production are screwing up their childhood memories, because I always felt Next Mutation did it for mine. They took everything I loved about the original Ninja Turtle cartoon and movies, and just dumbed it down to the point I couldn't take the franchise seriously anymore! That being said, despite my distaste for this iteration, if Venus had been introduced in the Archie comics first, I might've liked her had they written her well!

[shezcrafti]

In a word, breasts.

Why? WHY?

[Candy Kappa]

In a word, breasts.

Why? WHY?

because of lazy character design

[ssjup81]

Venus really gets all the hate because she was portrayed as the only sane Turtle while the main Turtles were portrayed as obnoxious clowns. In a show where not even Leo isn't taken seriously, it's going to be very bad. It's like all of Leo's stoic virtues were just given to Venus.So the guys were potrayed as teenagers. :tlol:

[Logan]

...reaching much? :lol:

most girls hate venus and most of the time the, "lets through in a girl character into an all boy cast for the hell of it," cliche is is genrally disliked by girls, since the token girl is usually pitiful at best or a stupid female stereotype at worst (love interest).

Hey, I didn't it say it actually worked.

[ssjup81]

I was a teen girl when TNM was out and I liked Venus...then again, it had nothing to do with gender. I liked the magic/spiritual aspect to her. If it had been a male character, I'd still have probably liked the character.

[Davetello]

She just sucks. Not literally, sadly for Raph, Donnie, Leo and Mikey.

She's way too...how do I put it. Hmm. She's too passive, I feel. She doesn't seem like a dominant female. She's happy to relinquish control to the men in her life. It's been 6 and a half years since I've seen the show though so I might be talking nonsense. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Amaranthus]

Because plastron boobs don't make sense.

[DevilSpooky]

I like Venus, the poor thing got it pretty rough in the series, she was sent to a foreign country by her dieing master to help people she never knew about and the boys treat her like crap and constantly mock her, especially Donnie. But she was still one of the best characters on that show, Splinter was senile, Mikey didn' care about anything other then food and his stupid radio show, Donnie was an idiot and was played like a puppet by Quease, Leo was angrier and lost his temper faster the Raph ever did and couldn't put his brothers in line (Raph was more or less the same thank God) and Shredder was more of a idiot then the OT one (never thought it was possible TBH). They're supposed to be older on this version but they act like little kids, at least Venus kinda acts her age, only thing I didn't liked about her is how submissive she was with the boys, seriously girl, I know you're alone in the world and all but why stick around? You did what you came here for, just leave those idiots behind, if you stick around you either kill yourself because of all the verbal abuse or you'll end up killing them all on their sleep.

[METALHEAD]

cause she's a turtle, and a female. and males feel threaten by it. :roll:

[Powder]

males feel threaten by it. :roll:

What? How does that make any sense? I feel worse about you making typos than I do there being a female turtle. :tlol:

[Shark_Blade]

Because her breasts are useless and doesn't contain any milk.

If you knock on that boob shape plastron, it's all hollow like you're knocking on a door.

[neatoman]

A series of problems really:

"The Xth Y" is an inherently lazy idea.
Having the main or only difference be the opposite sex is also lazy.
Having her share the backstory of the regular turtles is the epitome of laziness.
Making her a potential love interest shattered the fundamental family dynamic when combined with the problem above.


These (and maybe her personality) are the fundamental problems with her, most other things are nitpicks really. So in a nutshell the main problem is that she's not a very creative idea at all, plus the fact that her presence interferes with the established relationship between the turtles.

Granted, it's not really that hard to to make a more compelling character representing some ideas she represents. Ninjara, Slash, Mona Lisa, Leatherhead, Alopex, Mondo Gecko, Metalhead, Fugitoid, Renet, Nobody, even Casey and April are all more popular (or at least more compelling) characters than Venus, and not that different in concept.

[Donnieangelo]

A series of problems really:

"The Xth Y" is an inherently lazy idea.
Having the main or only difference be the opposite sex is also lazy.
Having her share the backstory of the regular turtles is the epitome of laziness.
Making her a potential love interest shattered the fundamental family dynamic when combined with the problem above.


These (and maybe her personality) are the fundamental problems with her, most other things are nitpicks really. So in a nutshell the main problem is that she's not a very creative idea at all, plus the fact that her presence interferes with the established relationship between the turtles.

Granted, it's not really that hard to to make a more compelling character representing some ideas she represents. Ninjara, Slash, Mona Lisa, Leatherhead, Alopex, Mondo Gecko, Metalhead, Fugitoid, Renet, Nobody, even Casey and April are all more popular (or at least more compelling) characters than Venus, and not that different in concept.
I agree with everything!

[Luckyday]

A series of problems really:

"The Xth Y" is an inherently lazy idea.
Having the main or only difference be the opposite sex is also lazy.
Having her share the backstory of the regular turtles is the epitome of laziness.
Making her a potential love interest shattered the fundamental family dynamic when combined with the problem above.


These (and maybe her personality) are the fundamental problems with her, most other things are nitpicks really. So in a nutshell the main problem is that she's not a very creative idea at all, plus the fact that her presence interferes with the established relationship between the turtles.

Granted, it's not really that hard to to make a more compelling character representing some ideas she represents. Ninjara, Slash, Mona Lisa, Leatherhead, Alopex, Mondo Gecko, Metalhead, Fugitoid, Renet, Nobody, even Casey and April are all more popular (or at least more compelling) characters than Venus, and not that different in concept.

Thank you! Yes these are the things that are wrong with this character. She is the ultimate example of lazy writing.

The key to make a great character to think outside the box instead of the old fifth turtle concept and make them stand strong on their own in concept. Tokka and Slash are anything but the fifth turtle and that is why they're remember in a more positive light.

The biggest solution to fix Venus to not make her the fifth turtle and their sister. Hell just make her something other then a ninja by god then she will stand out among the masses of OCs who are just females versions of the ninja turtle with ****ing shell boobs and long flowing hair.

[Candy Kappa]

A good "fifth" Turtle, would be Artemisia by Ross Campbell.

[Luckyday]

A good "fifth" Turtle, would be Artemisia by Ross Campbell.

That more of a elseworld story then an ass pull in retcon of establish canon and if there one thing that geeks really hate, it's retconning.

[Candy Kappa]

True, Artemisia was always there in Ross' universe, which works a lot better then "*poff* long lost family suddenly here to stay"

and Arty's design is not tacked on with feminizing stuff like hair, eyelashes and boobs. She looks just like the guys, a mutant bipedal turtle.

[Luckyday]

That said, I do want to see a female mutant turtle some day. Turtles are not just one species. There are clearly mutants from different countries so how hard can it be to create one with a unique concept and with flaws and all?

[Prowler]

Well, first of all, she was created over a decade after the other turtles. There was no need to create another a turtle. And her being female gave the vibe that they did it just for the sake of diversity. And they even had the nerve to go there and make her not blood related to them. And finally, her being a bad character in a bad show that was considered the lowest point ever in the history of the franchise didn't do her any favors either. Michael Bay's film came close but at least that one made quite some decent money, while TNM was cancelled pretty early. That show was the nail on the coffin of the rapid popularity decline of the franchise. So basically, her poor reputation and infamy is attributed to a mix of poor characterization and being part of one of the crappiest, if not the crappiest, TMNT incarnation to date.

[MST3KFan]

Venus is the prime example of a Mary Sue. That pretty much sums her up. The fact that they changed the turtles from brothers no less so they could compete for her love as well...

The way Leonardo says "We're not brothers" in the show, it's like..."What!? Since when?"

[BabyTurtles]

Firstly I'd like to say I don't mind a girl turtle because I like Arty.

but Venus was too much of a Mary Sue.

[Garfield]

I'm always of the Grant Morrison mindset that says "There are NO bad characters or ideas, just badly executed ones."

I agree with this. Venus could work. But she didn't she was goofy. Not because of anything on paper about the character but because she was portrayed poorly. But that's really doesn't have anything to do with the concept of the character. TMNT:NM was just a goofy show over all.

[IndigoErth]

She could have been cool. I'll never understand how people can take some initial idea and then...make it stupid. Or is it down to simply nobody in charge knows how to make cool female characters, esp without making them fit some agenda.


At the very least that show could have said she was one lone hatchling simply put with the boys, keeping their agenda intact without having to bring the unnecessary "not brothers" nonsense into it.

Better yet... She's another turtle they cross paths with eventually, but who did not start out with or mutate with them. Maybe she was a lab animal, or maybe enemies experimented with trying to mutate their own turtle to try to combat the boys and she was either lost, or better yet, purposely escaped, defecting from their ranks as she knew they were evil. Maybe she does not live locally, but becomes an ally and contact who occasionally aids them. Has a real signature weapon, not mystical powers; gear is noticeably different in style (cool style please, not a style that shouts "girl"), perhaps no mask at all. Maybe she'd even tease the guys about wearing them.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

^ This.... could be very cool.

[pennydreadful]

She could have been cool. I'll never understand how people can take some initial idea and then...make it stupid. Or is it down to simply nobody in charge knows how to make cool female characters, esp without making them fit some agenda.


At the very least that show could have said she was one lone hatchling simply put with the boys, keeping their agenda intact without having to bring the unnecessary "not brothers" nonsense into it.

Better yet... She's another turtle they cross paths with eventually, but who did not start out with or mutate with them. Maybe she was a lab animal, or maybe enemies experimented with trying to mutate their own turtle to try to combat the boys and she was either lost, or better yet, purposely escaped, defecting from their ranks as she knew they were evil. Maybe she does not live locally, but becomes an ally and contact who occasionally aids them. Has a real signature weapon, not mystical powers; gear is noticeably different in style (cool style please, not a style that shouts "girl"), perhaps no mask at all. Maybe she'd even tease the guys about wearing them.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/That-Was-Bloody-Brilliant-Ronald-Weasley-Gif.gif

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Personally, I always had an idea that Venus could have been brought temporarily to the 4Kids cartoon as a mutant created in a lab by Agent Bishop with the express purpose of infiltrating the Turtles. Have her start off as a villain, turn sympathetic, and THEN LEAVE THE TEAM.

There ain't no room for a permanent fifth Turtle.

Oh, and change the name to Artemisia. Naming the girl after a piece of art but the guys after artists (people with rights)... read into that what you will. :tlol:

[Commenter 42]

She could have been cool. I'll never understand how people can take some initial idea and then...make it stupid. Or is it down to simply nobody in charge knows how to make cool female characters, esp without making them fit some agenda.


At the very least that show could have said she was one lone hatchling simply put with the boys, keeping their agenda intact without having to bring the unnecessary "not brothers" nonsense into it.

Better yet... She's another turtle they cross paths with eventually, but who did not start out with or mutate with them. Maybe she was a lab animal, or maybe enemies experimented with trying to mutate their own turtle to try to combat the boys and she was either lost, or better yet, purposely escaped, defecting from their ranks as she knew they were evil. Maybe she does not live locally, but becomes an ally and contact who occasionally aids them. Has a real signature weapon, not mystical powers; gear is noticeably different in style (cool style please, not a style that shouts "girl"), perhaps no mask at all. Maybe she'd even tease the guys about wearing them.

You win the Internet today.
Nice well told pitch. I can picture it in my head easily. 5 Stars.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

She could have been cool. I'll never understand how people can take some initial idea and then...make it stupid. Or is it down to simply nobody in charge knows how to make cool female characters, esp without making them fit some agenda.


At the very least that show could have said she was one lone hatchling simply put with the boys, keeping their agenda intact without having to bring the unnecessary "not brothers" nonsense into it.

Better yet... She's another turtle they cross paths with eventually, but who did not start out with or mutate with them. Maybe she was a lab animal, or maybe enemies experimented with trying to mutate their own turtle to try to combat the boys and she was either lost, or better yet, purposely escaped, defecting from their ranks as she knew they were evil. Maybe she does not live locally, but becomes an ally and contact who occasionally aids them. Has a real signature weapon, not mystical powers; gear is noticeably different in style (cool style please, not a style that shouts "girl"), perhaps no mask at all. Maybe she'd even tease the guys about wearing them.

all this, i have always said venus didnt need to be in the bowl with them...but yes to this i second..or third it..this is my new Venus origin

[Cipher]

If I had to hazard a guess: Probably because she's solely connected to the absolute worst iteration of the franchise and her execution was gobsmackingly horrible.

That said, I'd be up for seeing a smart version of Venus. The presence of a female Turtle would be a serious blow to the Turtles' universe in an anti-"Sons of the Silent Age" kind of way, and I'd be up for seeing a better developed version of her character as well. There are smart stories to be told with some version of her.

You could argue whether or not it'd even be the same character if the only traits carried over are "there's a fifth Turtle, and it's a girl," but ... whatever. Characters have seen more variation than that throughout different versions of TMNT already.

[Donnieangelo]

Good thing I was born a few months after the show ended.