an idea for IDW Leatherhead

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Since we know that everybody's favorite mutant gator will be introduced in IDW sooner or later, I was thinking of a way to do him that would incorporate elements of every version of him, and I wanted to know what everyone else thought.

I think a way to approach Leatherhead would be, since the turtles and Splinter are reincarnations of Hamato Yoshi and his four sons, what if the aligator that mutates into Leatherhead is the reincarnation of Jess Harley, a cajun Gator hunter and thief from the ninteenth century? Something like during his life he stole from a voodoo priestess named Mary Bones, who cursed him to be the very thing he hated in his next life.

His memory restored (at least in fragments) by the mutagen, Harley is now the very thing he hunted and hated- a gator. He could ethier be a Sockgen experiment, or one of the mutants created by shredder from the animals we saw in the Apolex flashback. What we get is a big, monsterous gator man who is neither good nor evil, has his own motivations, and is both ally and enemy to the turtles depending on the situation.

What does everyone else think?

[Cowabunga Carl]

That is why I've never been a big fan of the reincarnation spin that IDW put on the TMNT. It just opens way to many different doors. I mean are all mutants going to be reincarnated or jut random characters? I mean if Splinter and the Turtles can remember their past lives why not other characters. This seems like a really slippery slope that is being treaded and it could either be brilliant or just one big mess.

I like your idea though. However it would take away the brilliance he possessed in Mirage. I know there are some people who aren't a fan of Mirage, but we have to remember that this is what launched TMNT. For a lot of people that is the version they proffer.

I like all the different versions for different reasons. I do have a special place for the Jess Harley version from Archie. I could see your idea working.

[Toby Barrett]

That's actually a pretty neat idea to include the Jess Harley mythology into the IDW series, while working in Mirage's origin at the same time.
I'd approve.

[corvus]

What's mirage about it? Mirage and 4kids leatherhead was usually a good guy and a genius who was mutated and adopted by utroms. This sounds just like a revamped Archie/87 leatherhead. I mean he's a cajin hunter who happens to be a giant gator. I like it save for the reincarnation bit, I just don't see how it incorporates other versions.

[Cowabunga Carl]

That is the problem faced with this character. Mirage/4kids he was an aligator who was raised by the Utroms. He was a genius who at times lost control and his animal side took over.

Archie he was a human that was cursed by a swamp witch/warlord of dimension x. He wasn't a bad guy. He just kind of was. He helped the Turtles out on occasion.

Fred Wolf he was straight up bad. He was a mutated gator from Florida wo had a nasty attitude. There really wasn't any redeeming quality about him. However it was nice to see a villain besides Shredder every now and again. Leatherhead provided that.

Each version has their own uniqueness. I think because most people know him as his Fred Wolf version that is what we will see in IDW. Especially sense it appears that the Utroms are either Krang's race or don't exist.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I was thinking him being a Turtle ally would be Mirage-ish, though Archie did that, too.

I don't know if you could do old genius letherhead- the Utroms finding him story, and him getting back to his 'family' really doesn't work here. Maybe he has some intelligence/tinkering skills on the side? And he's not totally OT as that version was blatantly bad!

I thought it'd be good to bring Jess Harley back in, yet still keep him a mutant. Plus, I'd love the inclusion of Cajun culture in the character. That'd be fun... I guar-won-tee! :)

[Cowabunga Carl]

I can appreciate where you were trying to go with it. I like the idea over all, but the thing to remember is you'll never be able to make everyone happy. Whichever way they go with him is going to be okay with me. I mean my favorite is the Archie Version like I said, then the Mirage a close second.

What I would really like to see is IDW make the character their own. Maybe do something completely out of left field with him. He doesn't need to be like he was before. After all if I want a previous version I can always go back to what i have already.

[Matches Malone]

I like this for the most part, except the reincarnation aspect. I think IDW purposefully dropped hints that the turles and Splinter were reincarnated and mutated as part of "fate" or "destiny." How else could such a coincidence happen that the animals mutated in the accident just happened to be the ones who were also reincarnated with a score to settle instead of, oh let's say, Jess Harley? Like Old Hob said, without this kind of caveat, it makes the whole aspect of reincarnation a little too silly, like a cartoon, where everyone is reincarnated and turned into a mutant.

Maybe he could steal the Mirage TMNT's origin and be Jess Harley's pet who learned science from observing his master! :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess... once you say that, "Yes, reincarnation happens in the IDW universe," then you can't really go back on that -- ergo, yes, Leatherhead would be a reincarnation of someone, so why not Jess Harley? What would be stupid is if every other mutant the Turtles run into is a reincarnated soul of someone they or Splinter knew in Feudal Japan (which is actually a fear of mine)... that would, #1: Be retarded, and #2: Make the IDW TMNT world seem very, very small and silly.

So I guess I don't have a big problem with Panda's idea. But I do want to hear the word "reincarnation" in IDW even less than I ever hear the words "new mutant."

[corvus]

I'd rather see a mirage 4kids one. That's what I'm hoping for. We got slash,hob,alpopex,bebop and rocksteady as mutant bad guys already, I'd like an ally to come out of this. That's why I'm hoping leatherhead is another experiment like slash, I don't care about the utrom story I just want a genius with anger issues. I think having all mutant bad guys and no allies would be silly and too many mutants the turtles wouldn't have those feelings of isolation. It's this reason I'd like to see Baxter as a cyborg.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess... once you say that, "Yes, reincarnation happens in the IDW universe," then you can't really go back on that -- ergo, yes, Leatherhead would be a reincarnation of someone, so why not Jess Harley? What would be stupid is if every other mutant the Turtles run into is a reincarnated soul of someone they or Splinter knew in Feudal Japan (which is actually a fear of mine)... that would, #1: Be retarded, and #2: Make the IDW TMNT world seem very, very small and silly.

So I guess I don't have a big problem with Panda's idea. But I do want to hear the word "reincarnation" in IDW even less than I ever hear the words "new mutant."


I can agree with you on the reincanation getting out of hand... though I would point out reincarnation of nearly every character, and destiny both play a very large role in a lot of Japanese ninja and martial arts fiction (Then again, that might not be the best point to make, considering a lot of modern Japanese fiction also makes ninjas into crimefighting heroes :lol: )

But you're right, it wouldn't fit TMNT.

[thelouisguy]

A reincarnated Leatherhead would work in the IDW universe but does leave us wondering: was Old Hob reincarnated? Will he be reincarnated? Alopex?
I do really like parts of these ideas, but I think we have reached out reincarnation quota for now.

[corvus]

No offense but having more characters who remember their past lives would be almost as dumb as including Ch'rell

[Cowabunga Carl]

That is my feeling too Corvus. I don't mind the reincarnation for the Turtles and Splinter that much any more. I just don't want every mutant being a reincarnated person who remembers their past lives. I accept that it can happen in this book, just don't want it to all the time.

[thelouisguy]

That is my feeling too Corvus. I don't mind the reincarnation for the Turtles and Splinter that much any more. I just don't want every mutant being a reincarnated person who remembers their past lives. I accept that it can happen in this book, just don't want it to all the time.

Agreed. It was a nice twist on the origin, but I would like them to explore just straight mutations for a little while. We have Bebop and Rocksteady coming up which will be interesting since they will be the first humans to be mutated.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Who knows if they are the true first human to mutant? Maybe Apolex holds that honor as she could have been lying.

[thelouisguy]

You could be right; I would not put it past her.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Baxter does say that in order for mutants to be stable they need the chemical they were testing on Splinter. That was animal to human like animal. Maybe it is stable if you go human to human like animal. We shall wait and see.

[thelouisguy]

Good point; that could be how they stabilize the mutation. Wonder if this is leading to a fly Stockman mutation?

[chrisdude]

Agreed. It was a nice twist on the origin, but I would like them to explore just straight mutations for a little while. We have Bebop and Rocksteady coming up which will be interesting since they will be the first humans to be mutated.How do you know they're coming?

[Jester]

How do you know they're coming?
They were shown as humans in the Raph micro...though they weren't named and could just be look-alikes to get us excited.

[thelouisguy]

How do you know they're coming?

They were shown as humans in the Raph micro...though they weren't named and could just be look-alikes to get us excited.

http://santolouco.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/tmnt_sample_santolouco_02.jpg?w=655&h=995

[Jester]

http://santolouco.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/tmnt_sample_santolouco_02.jpg?w=655&h=995
Wait...you're using a pic from his blog that is in no way related to the IDW series as proof that we'll see at least Rocksteady in the series?
*sigh*

[Cowabunga Carl]

Yup, that's proof. :trolleye:

[corvus]

In the ninja notes section they said "we'll see those guys again". They're coming, I wonder if they'll be involved with the attack on the antique shop which I'm pretty sure is inevitable.

[chrisdude]

Seeing those goons slipped my mind.

[Allio]

That is why I've never been a big fan of the reincarnation spin that IDW put on the TMNT. It just opens way to many different doors. I mean are all mutants going to be reincarnated or jut random characters? I mean if Splinter and the Turtles can remember their past lives why not other characters. This seems like a really slippery slope that is being treaded and it could either be brilliant or just one big mess.




I know right? I'm just waiting for the twist where it turns out Aloplex is Tengshen reincarnated

[Jester]

I know right? I'm just waiting for the twist where it turns out Aloplex is Tang Shen reincarnated
The thought had crossed my warped little mind as well.

[Cowabunga Carl]

I know right? I'm just waiting for the twist where it turns out Aloplex is Tengshen reincarnated

In the words of Achmed, "Silence! I keel you!"

[Plasticplayhouse]

The reincarnation of the turtles, splinter, and shredder, I can take. It's small and it pretty feasible. Additional incarnation stories I'd have a problem with. It would degrade the previously mentioned reincarnation stories and make things start to get really cheesey.

I do love leatherhead and I'm all for having one in the idw book, just not this way. I'm down for a "chance mutation" kinda story. Man in the wrong place at the wrong time or even an a shredder or krang experiment. Heck, I'm even down for something totally original regarding his origin. Just no more reincarnation, please.

[corvus]

Shredder isn't reincarnated.

[Zulithe]

While in concept your idea sounds cool, in the greater picture I would not like it. I think it is important that IDW not abuse and overuse the whole reincarnation thing or it is really going to cheapen every single character.

For the Turtles and Yoshi I already don't like it. But I'm trying to accept it. If they continue to use that angle it is just going to irritate me.

I'm sure the IDW people thought the reincarnation angle was a good way to merge two different origin paths (splinter as yoshi, and splinter as the rat) but it actually caused a lot more problems and, ugh, honestly I just hope they retcon it :P

The truth is they were not reincarnated at all. But a strange effect of the mutagen made them hallucinate past lives! Yeah, see, that is what REALLY happened. The truth is that the turtles were always turtles, never humans, and splinter was actually yoshi who lost 4 sons earlier in his life. The turtles, when in contact with the mutagen, yoshi and the memories of his sons, took on some of their traits. There. I fixed everything. Now it's a lot less lame. This also adds a layer of drama and melancholy that I would find more interesting.

The first TMNT movie had the best version of the origin. Why they always gotta meddle with it.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Thanks, guys! I just thought reincarnation would be a good replacement for the 'human mutating into an anthro' problem- heck, look what it did for Splinter/Hamato Yoshi! Since Buddhism claims are living creatures are reincarnated, I was thinking all the mutants could have past lives, and get fragments of past-life memories. It would explain why they develop personalities so quickly, and how they learn so quickly. Jess Harley seemed the perfect past life for Leatherhead, 'by gumbo'.

I'm using the idea like crazy in my TMNT D20 game I'm doing, as all my mutants are animals mutated up! XD