Do you think Yoshi and Teng Shen's murder was the reason so many parents were upset?

[Jephael]

I always felt the flashback to Oroku Saki killing Hamato Yoshi and Teng Shen in the original movie was pretty graphic (for a kids' film anyway). It didn't upset me too much as a child, but I always thought it was a bit unsettling. Also the more I think about it the more I have this notion that the scene may have been one of the triggers that lead to the outcry from parents deeming the movie so violent.

[Candy Kappa]

naah, violence is always fun. it coarse language and sex that makes parents cringe. :P

[marcelangelo]

this is the truth:..I have never met a parent that was upset with teenage mutant ninja turtles....;)
in all seriousness:have YOU guys EVER?

[Jester]

Some people did:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2012/01/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-exposed.jpg

[pannoni1]

There were likely many upset parents, but it was a small minority who were, and of that minority, a small fraction of this was due to Yoshi and Teng Shen's murder, since a flashback involves a "long ago" storyline that just doesn't seem haunting compared to such an event happening in "present time". The only reason for the downtone in violence for the second movie is to simply make the movie more like the top-rated Saturday Morning cartoon to appeal to the franchises' biggest demographic at the time in hopes of a higher profit.

[gobo]

The only parent I ever knew that disapproved of the cartoon was some religion-nut who claimed it made her kid play-act Turtles with his friends and someone would always get hurt. This was before the movie ever came out. I don't recall ever asking her opinion on the movie.

[Jester]

I'm surprised I never hurt any of my friends when we played Turtles. I used to use these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_8406.jpg
As my play sais at one point. :P

[gobo]

^ What the heck are those? Knitting needles?? O_o

[zkarlette]

They seem to be huge nails with those cable fasteners

[Welmanshire]

Haha my friends and I all have at least one scar each from playing tmnt/power rangers as kids!

[Blossombrooks]

A a kid the Teng Shen/Yoshi murder didn't upset me any more than intended, I did hide behind a cushion the next time I saw the Shredder on the screen but he was an awesome scary villain. I can't remember what certificate the film was though?

[zkarlette]

I think that Tatsu and the foot made it seem more violent that the hole teng Sheng scene, but personally I don't remember it being scary back then.

[Welmanshire]

I think that Tatsu and the foot made it seem more violent that the hole teng Sheng scene, but personally I don't remember it being scary back then.

Yeah, the scene where Tatsu beats that guy within an inch of his life is pretty brutal, even now as an adult. As a kid I was never overly effected by it though. The fight scenes we acted out were from the cartoon most of the time.

[Jester]

^ What the heck are those? Knitting needles?? O_o
Knitting needles!?

No Vic, they are tent stakes. :D

[zkarlette]

Knitting needles!?

No Vic, they are tent stakes. :D

So that's what they were..no wonder they seem pretty big, but since I've never been camping I wouldn't know.:ohwell:

[Zachatello00]

I had to beg my mom not to drive us out of the drive in theater when Raph swore, right at the beginning of the movie. I told her that I had heard worse that very day at the playground during recess.

She believed me. :)

[alliance]

do u guys remember that f*cken scene TS is talking about? that was damn brutal lmao :tlol:... her arm or whatever looked completely totaled from my view, it was a hardcore movie especially coming off such a happy cartoon, i wouldnt be surprised if more than a few parents thought it was a little too much for a kids flick

[Azrael Macool]

Yeah, the scene where Tatsu beats that guy within an inch of his life is pretty brutal, even now as an adult. As a kid I was never overly effected by it though. The fight scenes we acted out were from the cartoon most of the time.

If what I've heard is true, in the original cut he actually did kill that kid, but to tone down the violence they added the other guy saying "You're gonna be all right" or whatever during ADR (additional dialogue recording). It certainly sounds like ADR to me (if you listen carefully, you can tell the difference), but that doesn't necessarily rule out that he did say that line in the first place, but it wasn't picked up well by he microphone and he just had to do it again. That's pretty common.

Randomly, is there in fact a commentary or director interview or something that could clarify things like this? I've heard for years that the movie got toned down in terms of adult subject matter (such as Leo using his swords more, I've heard they stole beer from April's fridge, etc), but has that ever been confirmed in any way? And if so, is that footage out there anywhere? I have only the DVD of the first movie, which has no real special features on it at all.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

The turtles I have felt for a long time were rewarded with the Beatles' "we're more popular than Jesus" syndrome, which was the real reason for the outcry. Toxic Crusaders aired as a cartoon and became an action figure line AFTER the movie "The Toxic Avenger," have you ever seen THAT? I wouldn't let MY kids watch it, if I had any.

[MikeandRaph87]

I was 3 years old in 1990. My parents bought it for me the day the vhs release came out and watched it with me. I had no problem with Saki killing Yoshi and Shen. I was also able to differentiate at that very young age Spinter being Yoshi and Splinter being Yoshi's pet.

I thought it was the use of ninja weapons that upset parents. The thought of kids wanting or pretending to use ninja weapons like sais,nunchucku,et al. begeting problems in the home by accidents or rough housing that leads to injury. That lead to the mall scene with the croosk at the opening of the second film and using thier surroundings as weapons moreso than their respective weapon.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, the scene where Tatsu beats that guy within an inch of his life is pretty brutal, even now as an adult. As a kid I was never overly effected by it though. The fight scenes we acted out were from the cartoon most of the time.

So you threw smokin hot pizza into your friends' faces....? And then cut a chandelier so it would fall on your friends?? wow... that's even more violent than waving a stick around and pretending it's a sword.

[Jephael]

So you threw smokin hot pizza into your friends' faces....? And then cut a chandelier so it would fall on your friends?? wow... that's even more violent than waving a stick around and pretending it's a sword.

See this is what the action figures are for. You act out the wild stuff through them, not with your own bodies.

[zodiac brave]

i don't really remember there being any kind of backlash when the movie came out. granted i was 6, but my mom was fine with it and as info obsessed as i was about TMNT, even back then, i woulda seen it on the news if it was actually a deal big enough to make that much of a splash. and honestly, i think if anything, the "hardness" ( shen's chopped up arm, yoshi's body falling, all the other implied brutality... ) only strengthened my understanding of right and wrong. it WAS scary, because, YES, saki was quite straight forwardly murdering these people and eventually went on to become the shredder. it made obvious the fact that the bad guys do bad things and they are beaten. they threaten but can be defeated by goodness and justice, which i think is a message strong and valuable enough to be made that outweighs the "important" idea that generic movie violence is damaging to kids.

also, im only in texas, and of course it's possible that there could well have been controversy in other parts of the united states or the world. if so, they shoulda just seen it for what it was...throwin a lil truth and honesty at the children.

[sgtfbomb]

If what I've heard is true, in the original cut he actually did kill that kid, but to tone down the violence they added the other guy saying "You're gonna be all right" or whatever during ADR (additional dialogue recording). It certainly sounds like ADR to me.


It's obviously ADR.

Years and years back, someone had the script and posted a few scans of it, and I believe it was confirmed that the kid was killed. Or that it was implied that he died. Personally, I'm fine with the change. The act of violence -- which went uncensored, as far as I know, beyond the added cartoony grumbles from the foot soldiers as Tatsu bumps their head together-- is enough to feel the impact.

"You're going to be alright!" is overlaid on a shot of Danny. You only get a brief shot of the kid as they take off his mask. The actor is clearly playing dead.

Even then, I still like the editing in the scene. It very well-paced, and focuses on Danny's reaction. The only thing that I don't like is "you're going to be alright" sticks out like a sore thumb.

There's also a scene in the film where a foot soldier is electrocuted. You can see steam rising from his body. His goofy voice makes it kind of funny, but the guy is obviously going to roast.

The movie was toned down a bit. And, if you have an eye for editing, it can actually be obvious. Originally, Sam Rockwell and his gang weren't after April's purse. They never actually say they are going to rape her, but it was heavily implied. The dialogue, as written, went like:

"Bad timing."
"You're telling me!"
"Don't Bother running. You've got nowhere to go!"
".....I have money!"
"We'll be sure to take it..after"

If you notice, the lines "Get her purse! Get her purse!" are overlaid on a shot of April and a guy jumping off the van. You never actually see him saying it. They also have her on the ground. Someone says "I got her watch!" but it is overlaid on a shot of Sam Rockwell.

The scene is in both the screenplay and the comic book adaption.

I also like the editing there. Even if they didn't add the "Get her purse!" lines, I think that the scene should've been edited the way it was.

Some of Leo's fighting scenes were cut. During the fight scene at April's apartment, he gets in a fight, taking him down the stairs. He's actually supposed to be in the basement before the floor collapses. I'm not sure if this was to tone down violence, as much as it was pace.

Other deleted scenes include:

-An alternate opening, where we pan into a sewer lid, which blasts opens--as seen in the trailer-- entering into the sewer, and going right to the front door of the Turtles' lair.

-An extended version of the scene where April walks to her van. She passes by a body of water, where the Turtles' shell pop out. This is also scene in the trailer.

-An extended/alternate version of Raph's fight with Casey.

-I'm not sure if it was filmed, but I believe an introductory scene for Casey Jones was written, with him seeing all the violence and chaos on the news, and becoming inspired to do something about it.

-April's update on Mikey during the farm sequence. If you notice, they she talks about the other three turtles and Casey, but not Mikey. A split second of his scene is shown in the movie, but if you blink, you'll miss it. He had taken Splinter's disappearance very hard, and obliterates a a punching bag.

-Extended training sequence.

-Extended ending, with April taking her drawings to a comic book publisher. They reject it. The turtles pop their heads out, as they were watching from the windows. This scene was finally released on a German special edition. It is the only real deleted scene available.

The original UK version had some alternate editing. They basically took all the moments, such as lingering shots that would have cut anyway, and inserted them back in to hide Mikey's nunchucks. The UK was very strict on that weapon, and they had to cut the shots out, including the "fellow chucker!" moment.

-In the fight at April's apartment, she pulls a rug out from some foot soldiers' feet. Also, you get a lingering shot of one of soldiers getting angry. It's very cartoony, and the acting is bad.

[zodiac brave]

wow. thanks, sgtfbomb! i know about a lot of that stuff, but never knew about the overdubbed lines to sell the purse-nabbing angle. i already love how, almost, anti-cartoony the first movie is. i love that steve barron and the producers were pushing for more and more of this level of maturity. sure some things had to get cut, but it's awesome to see that if this had, miraculously, been an R-rated movie made for adults, that it still would've been a damn good one.

[sgtfbomb]

sure some things had to get cut, but it's awesome to see that if this had, miraculously, been an R-rated movie made for adults, that it still would've been a damn good one.

It wouldn't have been R rated. I've heard talk of a supposed R rated script, but I think that was before the movie was even set. I would say PG-13. It was a new rating back then, and PG was far different than it is now. Currently, we regard it as what G was back then. (G is also another rating that has changed. Most of the Planet of the Apes films were G, and two of them ended with the main characters being slaughtered)

Parents did take us to see R rated movies back in the day, and it wasn't taboo as it is now. (Unless it happens to be "a film with a message" that consists of 2 hours of a guy being brutally beaten to death, then, apparently, it's ok) They used to be able to walk us up to the ticket booth, tell the clerk that they give their consent to let us watch the movie, walk away, and pick us up after the film were over. Today, that would be looked at as irresponsible, but the irony is that back then, parents would actually be parents, and talk to us about the differences between fact and fiction. Today, even the parents don't know the difference :lol:

The big deal about Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers to the very vocal minority of parents was that we as kids liked to pretend to fight. A very small minority of us kids would ACTUALLY fight, and get their bonehead selves hurt. Their bonehead parents would walk in, and blame the TV, instead of their lousy parenting skills. They'd then tell those kids not to get to blood on their carpet. These are the same parents that try to ground the teacher when the kid gets an F in math. :o

[zodiac brave]

It wouldn't have been R rated. I've heard talk of a supposed R rated script, but I think that was before the movie was even set. I would say PG-13. It was a new rating back then, and PG was far different than it is now. Currently, we regard it as what G was back then. (G is also another rating that has changed. Most of the Planet of the Apes films were G, and two of them ended with the main characters being slaughtered)

mos def. thats why i said "miraculously". i think that if it had just been a straight-up adapatation of the mirage series, it would've definitely been r-rated, even by 1989-1990 standards.

Parents did take us to see R rated movies back in the day, and it wasn't taboo as it is now. (Unless it happens to be "a film with a message" that consists of 2 hours of a guy being brutally beaten to death, then, apparently, it's ok) They used to be able to walk us up to the ticket booth, tell the clerk that they give their consent to let us watch the movie, walk away, and pick us up after the film were over. Today, that would be looked at as irresponsible, but the irony is that back then, parents would actually be parents, and talk to us about the differences between fact and fiction. Today, even the parents don't know the difference :lol:

yep! in my town, at least to the theaters my mom would take me to, i never really even had to have her go up to the ticket booth to give her permission. in fact, usually we went and saw different movies, so we'd arrive and i go straight to the video games, while she bought her ticket and went on her way. then when it was time for my movie to start, i'd go buy my ticket and head in. it wasn't till i was older (than 18 ) that i noticed theaters really carding a lot.

The big deal about Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers to the very vocal minority of parents was that we as kids liked to pretend to fight. A very small minority of us kids would ACTUALLY fight, and get their bonehead selves hurt. Their bonehead parents would walk in, and blame the TV, instead of their lousy parenting skills. They'd then tell those kids not to get to blood on their carpet. These are the same parents that try to ground the teacher when the kid gets an F in math. :o

same with beavis and butthead, mortal kombat, ren and stimpy...and the cycle continues today.

[marcelangelo]

I just casually read through your conversation and want to say Im with you on this;)...funny thing with the lesser strict regulations back in the day but better parenting at the same time(regarding telling the young ones what is fiction and what is truth behind these things)..
thanks for the enjoyable trip back into the beautiful past, guys!mean it...

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

The turtles I have felt for a long time were rewarded with the Beatles' "we're more popular than Jesus" syndrome, which was the real reason for the outcry. Toxic Crusaders aired as a cartoon and became an action figure line AFTER the movie "The Toxic Avenger," have you ever seen THAT? I wouldn't let MY kids watch it, if I had any.

Haha, it's funny you mention that. I was a big Toxie fan growing up and the video store by my grandparents's house had Toxic Avenger 3 on VHS. Rented it and loved it of course! :D

[tmntpower1988]

The scene didn't bother me, I used to love violent movies as a kid, The Warriors being at the top of the list.

naah, violence is always fun.

I agree :D

Randomly, is there in fact a commentary or director interview or something that could clarify things like this? I've heard for years that the movie got toned down in terms of adult subject matter (such as Leo using his swords more, I've heard they stole beer from April's fridge, etc), but has that ever been confirmed in any way? And if so, is that footage out there anywhere? I have only the DVD of the first movie, which has no real special features on it at all.

The Turtles stealing beer from April's fridge :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Rat_King]

While I don't remember outcry over the TMNT movie specifically, I do remember that leading into the time when it was on the news a lot about kids acting out the violence from shows. I remember most of that being aimed at the power rangers though. I even remember they stopped us from play fighting at recess. It's funny that they would let kids play "war" or "cops and robbers". Pretend to shoot one another but no balled fists? Seriously?

[miru]

Moreso because the cartoon had a different origin story.

[Jephael]

Moreso because the cartoon had a different origin story.

What the heck does that have to do with this discussion?

[Logan]

My family always had more of a problem with language than violence. They knew that I would play it with friends, but they also knew I was smart enough not to hurt anyone in the process and that I would never get into fights from watching Turtles, Power Rangers, Batman, etc. The parental units just didn't want me spouting off obscenities around friends and adults, to which I can certainly understand and agree with.

Sex would be an issue for them, too. They felt (as any sensible parent would) I was too young to view or even understand that sort of thing. Again, I think they're right. But it almost never became an issue due to the type of films I was interested in.

[chrisdude]

I don't remember an "outcry," but I was only born in '87. I might have missed it. I do remember that some kids weren't allowed to watch the OT, or Power Rangers, and things like that.

[JakeSully]

The turtles I have felt for a long time were rewarded with the Beatles' "we're more popular than Jesus" syndrome, which was the real reason for the outcry. Toxic Crusaders aired as a cartoon and became an action figure line AFTER the movie "The Toxic Avenger," have you ever seen THAT? I wouldn't let MY kids watch it, if I had any.

I remembered Toxic Crusaders when i was 10 as i had the toys, cards and some merchandise including comics of Toxic Avenger as i decided to rent the movie that started it all from one of my local city's video stores in it's unrated version and MY GOD the movie was horrifying as it was definitely NOT a children's superhero movie as it had attempt rape, language, sex, drug use and graphic gore including a scene where it shows baddies who hit and run a child on a bike then back up as we see in detail the child getting his skull crushed by the car with his brains bursting out then they go out to take pictures of the child's body and where his head is as it looked like an actual dead child's mutilated corpse but thankfully it wasn't and it made me sick. But despite that horrific scene i thought it was a kick-ass movie but i dunno what the hell where they thinking making a kids show and kids merchandise to a sleazy, sick and ultraviolent horror comedy?

My parents had no problem of me seeing R-rated movies in theaters since i saw Fright Night when i was 4 as it was my first r-rated movie and the first movie to get me hooked into horror besides watching Creepshow on video. I even rented r-rated movies on video and seen them on cable, i even read mature readers comics like Swamp Thing, Watchmen, Tales of Terror etc. no problemo.

So no big deal.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Nothing new....they were hysterical in -74 when "Way of Dragon" came out in U.K....whole back alley nunchaku scene was cut (I hate when govt acts like a nanny state , let people judge for themselves instead of censoring)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's funny that they would let kids play "war"

Or even funny that they would let gron-ups fight in war. :)

[Irishmile]

Seems like no matter what form of entertainment it is, there is ALWAYS going to be some "holier than thou" group of people who get a moral bug up their ass and has a problem with it.

Almost in every case the people in question have never actually watched/participated in the thing they have a problem with.. They just want to have some crusade to fight and something to shake their fingers at.

Sometimes they themselves enjoy something equally as rediculous but do not even see the connection.. like old people who have a problem with young kids with cell phones at the table.. but they themselves are usually busy reading the news paper while eating their toast and egg whites... its the same thing in a new way.

LOL I seem to have gone on a spiel.... I will go back to my corner now

[Mona_Lisa]

this is the truth:..I have never met a parent that was upset with teenage mutant ninja turtles....;)
in all seriousness:have YOU guys EVER?

I know alot of people who thought the turtles were "Evil", lol... Luckly my parents were not that way:twink:. My mom did freak out when Raph started cursing, and I had to beg her not to turn it off. After the movie was over She had to have this big long talk about how if I started talkn like that I couldn't watch any more turtles at all!!! The funny thing was my Dad's language was much worse than Raphs!!!:tlol:

I do have a friend (who isn't religous at all) that doesn't let her 4 year old watch the Nick Turtles because She doesn't like him to pretend to be a ninja turtle. His hyperness kills her, and she is sure "hes going to hurt himself".

[Welmanshire]

So you threw smokin hot pizza into your friends' faces....? And then cut a chandelier so it would fall on your friends?? wow... that's even more violent than waving a stick around and pretending it's a sword.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. We acted in a more comical way. As opposed to trying to bludgeon each other. Although, you probably knew that and just wanted to inject your "special" smart sarcasm into the mix. Good job.