Rewatching Season 2, anyone notice the lair design wasn't finalized yet?

[CyberCubed]

I've been rewatching Season 2 lately and what I notice the most is the standard lair design that was used from Seasons 3-10 wasn't finalized yet. The rooms seemed pretty barren with the exception of Splinter's meditation room, and while they still have their eating table and the TV, its not organized the same way as the later seasons.

I guess once Season 3 started they made the decision to make their lair more recognizable with a standard design.

[Icebot]

I noticed that too about a year or 2 ago. Especially in The Catwoman From Channel 6, when they were watching tv, there was no couch or anything. Still, they had the 4 way bunk beds in Attack of the 50 Foot Irma but they used the other ones in The Ninja Sword Of Nonwhere.

Also, I noticed the outside of the Channel 6 building was different until season 3 and the portal room in the Technodrome had all kinds of differences in season 2.

[CyberCubed]

Some of it may just be the different animation studios.

How many times did the TurtleComm look different than it was supposed to? In some episodes its all gray and has this antenna sticking out from the sides...and in others its based to the clamshell design April has or the other standard one the Turtles use.

[Icebot]

Some of it may just be the different animation studios.

That's probably true. The animation for Shredder seems to have changed every season, especially between seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4. And Rocksteady changed from army pants to regular ones after season 1.

[oldmanwinters]

My in-universe explanation for the strange S2 lair design is that the TMNT relocated after Season 1 (for some reason, I don't know... repairs and renovations perhaps?) and then returned between S2 and S3. Also, they decided that their S2 lair's location had been sufficiently compromised after both Baxter and Catwoman April breached their location; thus, they had to move.

Eh, it's the best explanation I can come up with.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

My in-universe explanation for the strange S2 lair design is that the TMNT relocated after Season 1 (for some reason, I don't know... repairs and renovations perhaps?) and then returned between S2 and S3. Also, they decided that their S2 lair's location had been sufficiently compromised after both Baxter and Catwoman April breached their location; thus, they had to move.

Eh, it's the best explanation I can come up with.

They at least seemed to change lair between season 1-2.

[CyberCubed]

I also noticed in some episodes their TV was connected to a wall instead of on the floor.

Yeah, it really does seem like the Turtles "moved" to a new lair between Seasons 2 and 3.

[CyberCubed]

Also, they decided that their S2 lair's location had been sufficiently compromised after both Baxter and Catwoman April breached their location; thus, they had to move.

Eh, it's the best explanation I can come up with.

Don't forget Bebop/Rocksteady also accidentally found their lair in the Catwoman episode too. Even if they didn't know the exact location.

It does seem likely they moved.

[Galactus]

To me it's always been noticeable that it was only in Season 3 onwards that the design of the lair was consistent.

In Season it is fairly consistent and but certain aspects fluctuate between episodes or even in them. Do the turtles sleep on the tunnel beds in the wall or the bunk beds for example.The fifth episode seemed to give it an entirely look altogether.

In Season 2 it was inconsistent every episode. Apart from "Return of the Shredder" I can't remember a single episode were the lair wasn't just random sewer chambers or tunnels with bare minimum furinshings.

Season 3 onwards even had the odd anomaly such as "Michaelangelo's Birthday" were the bunk beds seem to make a return.

I don't think the turtles moved lairs. Even in Season 3 it was inconsistent on whether the bad guys could find the lair or whether its location was a complete mystery. Metalhead found the lair as did Lotus and the gang with the scent analyzer and you're not telling me Shredder couldn't rebuild Mousers like he did in the first season to find Splinter, yet episodes like "Beneath These Streets" it's a huge mystery...hell in "The Missing Map" the whole plot is about the baddies trying to finding the lair.

I just think it was old toon logic.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think the turtles moved lairs. Even in Season 3 it was inconsistent on whether the bad guys could find the lair or whether its location was a complete mystery. Metalhead found the lair as did Lotus and the gang with the scent analyzer and you're not telling me Shredder couldn't rebuild Mousers like he did in the first season to find Splinter, yet episodes like "Beneath These Streets" it's a huge mystery...hell in "The Missing Map" the whole plot is about the baddies trying to finding the lair.

Lotus abandoned Shredder/Krang at the end of her debut episode, whether she knew where the lair was didn't matter because she was no longer working for them.

That being said, I do kinda see it as a missed opportunity of not having an episode where Shredder discovers their lair and sends waves of Foot Soldiers to destroy it....but I guess we saw that in the 4kids series.

[pannoni1]

Since my very first VHS tape was Case of the Killer Pizzas and was the first episode I watched many times along with Enter The Fly, I always though the lair for those episodes were the "normal design". It just shows that A-1 just couldn't make up their minds, so we have some weird shots, from the wodden table at the end of COTKP with the upper half of a sewer tunnel in the background to the raised ladder and sewer tunnel in ETF, and the room where Michelangelo practiced with that washing machine seemed huge. But then came the Hydra Tapestry, Stop sign, TV in the corner, Exit sign, one way sign, pink couch, and Turtle carpet and it finally seemed that the staff had made up its mind. Still, that wasn't all that got established with Season 3.

Season 3 also introduced April's apartment as well for the remainder of the series, as in Divide and Conquer, she clearly has the same apartment building. Her first apartment got destroyed in A Thing About Rats, then for Season 2, we never see a full exterior shot of the apartment, and some rooms look different, especially in the episode Case of the Killer Pizzas with the kitchen layout and the living room where the Turtles try to chase the pizza monsters.

The pink "6" on the Channel 6 building in New York's Shiniest, the weird building in The Mean Machines, the strange reception area when we first see Irma, and the "April O'Neil" sign in The Return of Shredder really makes the layout of the building feel ever-changing that season. At least Season 1's Channel 6 building was fairly close to its regular design with the exterior shot in Turtle Tracks and Burne's office in Shredder & Splintered, despite having a white Newsvan that season. Season 3 introduced the lobby with the giant globe, the news room with the world maps on the wall which even made a cameo in Mobster From Dimension X, the "Editor" and "Reporter" signs, and April's office with the red curtain, tulips, and rectangular bulletin board.

I just find that Season 2 just has that "cheesy 80s vibe" watching it back, since it seems like the animators/background artists just couldn't make up their mind with regards to how the layouts should be designed. Rocksteady having white eyes instead of yellow in many scenes. Not to mention the Turtles' belts with white letters on gray backgrounds for most of that season.

[pferreira]

The pink "6" on the Channel 6 building in New York's Shiniest, the weird building in The Mean Machines, the strange reception area when we first see Irma, and the "April O'Neil" sign in The Return of Shredder really makes the layout of the building feel ever-changing that season. At least Season 1's Channel 6 building was fairly close to its regular design with the exterior shot in Turtle Tracks and Burne's office in Shredder & Splintered, despite having a white Newsvan that season. Season 3 introduced the lobby with the giant globe, the news room with the world maps on the wall which even made a cameo in Mobster From Dimension X, the "Editor" and "Reporter" signs, and April's office with the red curtain, tulips, and rectangular bulletin board.

Remember, Season 2 had a couple of different animation studios doing the episodes so there was a lack of consistency. The animation between The Return of Shredder and The Mean Machines looks like both A1 and TMS were involved. It's probable that at this early stage the animation studios were interpreting the designs rather than following a set, standard design so it was all a bit off model.

[oldmanwinters]

For a great overview review of Season 2, I recommend DrSpengler's 2-part analysis:
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2012/09/18/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1987-season-2-review-part-one/

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2012/09/28/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1987-season-2-review-part-two/


Remember, Season 2 had a couple of different animation studios doing the episodes so there was a lack of consistency. The animation between The Return of Shredder and The Mean Machines looks like both A1 and TMS were involved.

The Mean Machines was a good looking episode, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't TMS.

[Metropoliskid41]

Yeah I feel the same way, them moving fits and makes sense. I've been re-watching Season 2 as well this week and noticed that as well, wasn't there a thread with a proposed map of the lair? Obviously season 2 would mess with that.

[sykosis]

what the hell is wrong with Raphael's voice in S3E13 The Ninja Sword of Nowhere

[Icebot]

what the hell is wrong with Raphael's voice in S3E13 The Ninja Sword of Nowhere

He just had a different voice actor instead of Rob Paulson, that's all.

[sykosis]

He just had a different voice actor instead of Rob Paulson, that's all.

i know, it's just so terrible. Who allowed that? WHO!?

[Icebot]

i know, it's just so terrible. Who allowed that? WHO!?

I don't know, I guess things were different with cartoons back then, like with the different designs for the lair, they allowed different voice actors if their voices came close enough to the characters' original voices. This happened with Donatello, Krang, Bebop, and especially Shredder.

[CyberCubed]

For a great overview review of Season 2, I recommend DrSpengler's 2-part analysis:
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2012/09/18/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1987-season-2-review-part-one/

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2012/09/28/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1987-season-2-review-part-two/

I've read those, but it doesn't seem like DrSpengler has any idea of what the OT is actually about. He keeps on expecting it to be a plot-driven series with continuity, look at the way he says Season 3 has, "go nowhere" plots, which makes no sense. That's not what the OT was supposed to be, and he doesn't seem to understand that.

Much in the same way Batman:TAS had no real continuing storylines (besides whenever the villains returned, and even then it was loose continuity), the OT didn't need many either.

[gobo]

Who allowed that? WHO!?
Someone with no conscience.

[pferreira]

The Mean Machines was a good looking episode, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't TMS.Maybe but it wasn't by A1, the colours are much more faded and the designs slightly different.