Why do some people refer to Splinter as an old rat?

[TurtleFan2012]

In the flashback of the first episode, he looked about 40-50ish. Even as a rat, he didn't really look old and feeble.

[CyberCubed]

Splinter and Shredder were the same age in the OT but they did treat him like he was older.

I guess it was the Mirage influence where Splinter really was an old rat.

[liugeaux]

Well, compared to the "Teenage" turtles, 40-50 is old.

[Bmaga123]

Splinter seemed like he was in his 70's in the 1st two live action films but he was done so well IMO.

[Vivi]

As he is part rat, he is really pushing the boundaries of mortality by making it to 40 years old.

[BubblyShell22]

Because he acted old in some of the incarnations. He seems a lot younger in the Nick cartoon though.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

In the original arcade game, the screen showing his profile lists his age as 30.

[oldmanwinters]

In the original arcade game, the screen showing his profile lists his age as 30.

Heh, like a generation once said, "Never trust anyone over 30!"

[Icebot]

Splinter always uses a walking stick. Maybe it means he is older or is it just his weapon?

[grungethemovie]

cause he's a rat, and he's old XD

i don't think shredder was his same age in the OT, cause he was his student

and they did make splinter younger in the new show, they said it (i think it's why he's so tall) i don't like it very much that he's not small and yoda-like, but his personality is marvelous
he reminds me of a (japanese) professor i had in university (he taught ergonomics in product design) we would have conversations like: (a hypothetical convo)
"so, prof, which one would you advise me to go forward, the red or the blue?"
"the one that is best"

[Berserker]

Because of the Jungian wise old man archetype. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_old_man)

[grungethemovie]

Because of the Jungian wise old man archetype. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_old_man)

"This type of character is typically represented as a kind and wise, older father-type figure who uses personal knowledge of people and the world to help tell stories and offer guidance that, in a mystical way, may impress upon his audience a sense of who they are and who they might become, thereby acting as a mentor. He may occasionally appear as an absent-minded professor, appearing absent-minded due to a predilection for contemplative pursuits.
The wise old man is often seen to be in some way "foreign", that is, from a different culture, nation, or occasionally, even a different time, from those he advises. In extreme cases, he may be a liminal being, such as Merlin, who was only half human.
In medieval chivalric romance and modern fantasy literature, he is often presented as a wizard.[2] He can also or instead be featured as a hermit. This character type often explained to the knights or heroes—particularly those searching for the Holy Grail—the significance of their encounters.[3]
In storytelling, the character of the wise old man is commonly killed or in some other way removed for a time, in order to allow the hero to develop on his/her own."

XD

[Pterobat]

Gotta say, I was floored to discover that "Splinter is thirty years old in the video game" tidbit a while back. I never pegged his exact age, but all I knew was that Splinter was Old with a capital O.

Why? Well, look at him: small (usually), soft-voiced, hunched, has a walking stick and is always full of wisdom to bestow. In popular culture terms, that means old. I doubt if the writers in any incarnation were consciously thinking of the Jungian archetype, but just playing on the idea that if the heroes have a mentor, he is always wise, old, and male.

Thankfully, Splinter never had to die to prove his sons' independence, as happens in so many stories like this. Eventually he passed away in the Mirage comics, but it was framed as "just part of life" rather than fulfilling some checklist, and was all the sadder for it.

I suppose how much they play up that angle depends on which version of Splinter we're talking about, but yeah, there are plenty of reasons to usually assume he's an older person.

[Berserker]

I doubt if the writers in any incarnation were consciously thinking of the Jungian archetype...

but just playing on the idea that if the heroes have a mentor, he is always wise, old, and male.

So they weren't thinking about the archetype... they were just thinking about the archetype. :)

Nah, I get what you're saying, but the cool thing about archetypes is that they're universal, and appreciated as highly familiar and meaningful regardless of culture. This is part of the reason why four wise cracking teenage turtles became so popular: archetypes stick with us.

[Pterobat]

So they weren't thinking about the archetype... they were just thinking about the archetype. :)

Nah, I get what you're saying, but the cool thing about archetypes is that they're universal, and appreciated as highly familiar and meaningful regardless of culture. This is part of the reason why four wise cracking teenage turtles became so popular: archetypes stick with us.

I don't think of the Turtles as archetypes, really: just a set of recurring character types that give the franchise a wide appeal because they are all main characters but all so different.

I studied a bit of Jung in college, so I had it drilled into my head that "archetype" meant the specific use of his theory, and not just a character type that shows up in a lot of popular media whose origins can be traced back to Jung's stuff.

[jestermon]

In the original show he didn't look so young before he was mutated either, definitely had some wrinkles, also if that wasn't supposed to be shine on his hair he had some white going on.

It never explains why he needed the cane I don't think.

[Pterobat]

In the original show he didn't look so young before he was mutated either, definitely had some wrinkles, also if that wasn't supposed to be shine on his hair he had some white going on.

It never explains why he needed the cane I don't think.

In issue #45 of the Archie Comic, "Mutations", Splinter reflects on his past life, and it's noted that he used a walking stick to get used to his "new legs".

Oddly, in that issue, Splinter was drawn looking more like the OT version than he had been in a long time. By this point in the run, Archie Splinter was usually drawn tall and with rounded features, and I don't think he had used a walking stick in ages.

[Coola Yagami]

I guess the cane was added to make him old. Splinter did seem to get tired and need rest a lot, and of course Shredder would always call him old and ancient.

[pannoni1]

He probably can't be older than his 50s though since Hamato didn't have any gray hair, which is ironic since 4kids Splinter has the gray head but feels younger. But the wrinkles suggest that he's probably no younger than 40, which makes sense to be the "father" of teenagers. Even when human in Splinter No More, he has the same voice as an older man and doesn't seem to enjoy youthful fads that Michelangelo would enjoy.

[Andrew NDB]

It's like this:

The Core Stuff:

Mirage/Source material: He's an old rat in the twilight of his life that gets mutated and becomes humanoid. Even though he becomes humanoid he is, of course, still an old rat, with a big question mark over his lifespan. As it turns out, he lived about 30 years in a mutated state before dying of natural causes.

Movie-verse: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

4Kids cartoon: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

IDW Universe:

He's a normal rat -- maybe old, maybe young, who knows -- who is mutated into humanoid form. In terms of being old or young, he can really be whatever the story dictates him to be, going forward.

The Nonsense Mutagen Universes:

Fred Wolf Cartoon: No, he's not that old. He's Hamato Yoshi himself, who was probably in his 30s when he was mutated. That a rat's DNA merges with his own is irrelevant to his human age -- he's still a relatively young guy.

Nickelodeon Cartoon: Same as above.

[shreddinghead]

Because of the Jungian wise old man archetype. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_old_man)

With emphasis on "The wise old man can be a profound philosopher distinguished for wisdom and sound judgment.". That is splinter.

[Coola Yagami]

It's like this:

The Core Stuff:

Mirage/Source material: He's an old rat in the twilight of his life that gets mutated and becomes humanoid. Even though he becomes humanoid he is, of course, still an old rat, with a big question mark over his lifespan. As it turns out, he lived about 30 years in a mutated state before dying of natural causes.

Movie-verse: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

4Kids cartoon: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

IDW Universe:

He's a normal rat -- maybe old, maybe young, who knows -- who is mutated into humanoid form. In terms of being old or young, he can really be whatever the story dictates him to be, going forward.

The Nonsense Mutagen Universes:

Fred Wolf Cartoon: No, he's not that old. He's Hamato Yoshi himself, who was probably in his 30s when he was mutated. That a rat's DNA merges with his own is irrelevant to his human age -- he's still a relatively young guy.

Nickelodeon Cartoon: Same as above.

Though he seemed younger and more powerful in the 2K3 version. Then when the fighting stops, he reverts back to 'old man needs a rest' Splinter.

[JakeSully]

It's like this:

The Core Stuff:

Mirage/Source material: He's an old rat in the twilight of his life that gets mutated and becomes humanoid. Even though he becomes humanoid he is, of course, still an old rat, with a big question mark over his lifespan. As it turns out, he lived about 30 years in a mutated state before dying of natural causes.

Movie-verse: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

4Kids cartoon: Same as Mirage, pretty much.

IDW Universe:

He's a normal rat -- maybe old, maybe young, who knows -- who is mutated into humanoid form. In terms of being old or young, he can really be whatever the story dictates him to be, going forward.

The Nonsense Mutagen Universes:

Fred Wolf Cartoon: No, he's not that old. He's Hamato Yoshi himself, who was probably in his 30s when he was mutated. That a rat's DNA merges with his own is irrelevant to his human age -- he's still a relatively young guy.

Nickelodeon Cartoon: Same as above.

Preciously! you hit the nail on the head with those examples as he doesn't seem that old.

[Shredded]

New Splinter definetely seems younger than any past incarnations, and I think that has pros and cons to it.


What I initially said about this decision, and why I was hesitant about it, is that when you have an old Splinter, you also have a sense of warm.
The turtles has to be careful and respectful around the guy, he is old. So there is a bit of tenderness there.

Making Splinter younger, bigger and stronger, you remove that bit of tenderness, about the turtles having to be more careful.
Now they can be free to just tumble around, there's no way they are going to hurt or exhaust Splinter now.

At first I was hesitant about that, but now I realised it actually gives them the room to be actual careless teenagers, and in the nick show that really works.

As for the cane.. I suspect his complexion has some-thing to do with that! absolutely, I mean try and take a look.


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/splinter.gif
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3467/3705715446_46ea223518_m.jpg

Both in the TOS show and the 2k3 show, does Splinter have bend legs, like a Rat, legs that are designed, not to walk upright with, but to be on four legs with.
The way his legs are, he is forced to constantly bow forward, and even though he is able to walk without his stick, I am going to say it's a lot easier and less taxing for him to walk with it.

And I always thought 2k3 Splinter were around sixty some-thing. So yeah, kind of old.
All though not really sixty, only the equaliant of sixty as rats ages a lot more, he was an older rat when he got mutated, so possible around ten-eleven years (rats don't life longer mates.) Then got mutated, while being old and spend fifteen years raising turtles.

New Splinter I would say, late Fourtish? I'm just guessing he was in his thirties when he moved to New york, after he had gotten wife and child and been in the army and became a nin-jutsu master and all of that. Then spend fifteen years training turtles, so late fourtish?


That being said, I keep on wondering how the hell new Splinters complexion works, it's like the animators don't even know and uses that robe to hide his complexion, because they honestly don't know how to animate it.

He walks extremely up-right, unlike any former counterparts, so he can't have the usual bended rat legs, but then what does he have? He has feet's and hands like a rat, only four fingers.
I know it's a nit-pick, but it keeps coming up in my mind every-time I actually see him being a bit more physical.

It's like this:


The Nonsense Mutagen Universes:

Fred Wolf Cartoon: No, he's not that old. He's Hamato Yoshi himself, who was probably in his 30s when he was mutated. That a rat's DNA merges with his own is irrelevant to his human age -- he's still a relatively young guy.

Nickelodeon Cartoon: Same as above.

Except for the fact that Shredder refered to Splinter as "Old man." on several occasions, indicating that Splinter is a good deal older than Shredder.
There was also a slight indication that Splinter might had trained Shredders ones, and was definetely ranking higher than him originally at the foot-clan.

[miru]

The Nonsense Mutagen Universes:

Fred Wolf Cartoon: No, he's not that old. He's Hamato Yoshi himself, who was probably in his 30s when he was mutated. That a rat's DNA merges with his own is irrelevant to his human age -- he's still a relatively young guy.

Nickelodeon Cartoon: Same as above.

"Nonsense Mutagen Universes" lol.

What about Next Mutation and Image.

[Venom]

"Nonsense Mutagen Universes" lol.

What about Next Mutation and Image.

Next Mutation was an extension of the movieverse.

Image was an extension of the Mirageverse.