Is Next Mutation in the same universe as the movies?

[TurtleFan2012]

I read the show takes place after "Secret of the Ooze", ignoring the 3rd film. In the series, they live in the same old abandon subway from TMNT 2. It could be possible Super Shredder survived being crushed and SOMEHOW changed back to normal Shredder by scientists.

[CyberCubed]

Where the hell did you get the idea it ignores the third film?

It's a loose continuation. They don't explain how Shredder came back to life and the show is badly written in general so nobody cares.

[TurtleFan2012]

Where the hell did you get the idea it ignores the third film?

It's a loose continuation. They don't explain how Shredder came back to life and the show is badly written in general so nobody cares.

But at the time when we were younger, we didn't think too much about the writting and cheap costumes. We kids were like, "A NEW NINJA TURTLE SHOW! AWSOME!" I admit, it is cheesy and silly when you watch it again as an adult lol.

[ToTheNines]

Not this debate again...

Watching it, it was pretty obvious that it operated as a continuation of the movies. But it's also pretty obvious that the people behind the show didn't really give much of a sh*t, so they never bothered to make it "hard canon".

[shreddinghead]

Well the 3rd movie is a continuation of the 2nd movie, and the turtles are older in NM than in the 3rd movie, so no.

[CyberCubed]

The stupid thing is when Shredder returns in episode 18 he and Splinter said they fought hundreds of times, which makes no sense. The only universe the Turtles did face Shredder hundreds of times was in the OT.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Where the hell did you get the idea it ignores the third film?

It's a loose continuation. They don't explain how Shredder came back to life and the show is badly written in general so nobody cares.

How do we know that Shredder died? As Super Shredder, he was probably stronger, and able to survive. But maybe, he didn't got enough mutagen required for permanent mutation, so that the mutation wore off some hours later.

[TurtleFan2012]

The stupid thing is when Shredder returns in episode 18 he and Splinter said they fought hundreds of times, which makes no sense. The only universe the Turtles did face Shredder hundreds of times was in the OT.

NM could had taken place 2 or 3 years after the 2nd or 3rd movie. Maybe shredder and the turtles fought off-screen dozens of times.

[darthsmozers]

Where the hell did you get the idea it ignores the third film?

It's a loose continuation. They don't explain how Shredder came back to life and the show is badly written in general so nobody cares.

Was it so crucial a question that you had to express "where the hell...?" in response. Yeesh...

Anyway, Id say being live action and set in the subway are enough to make this in that continuity. Even themcomputer animated TMNT probably is due to the references to the other movies at the end.

[CyberCubed]

Was it so crucial a question that you had to express "where the hell...?" in response. Yeesh...

Anyway, Id say being live action and set in the subway are enough to make this in that continuity. Even themcomputer animated TMNT probably is due to the references to the other movies at the end.

Because it really bothers me when people try to render Movie 3 non-canon, especially when talking about something like Next mutation.

[Andrew NDB]

The answer is to the thread title is "Yes."

But the movieverse itself seems multiple choice.

TMNT 1 => TMNT 2 => TMNT 3 =>

... it then branches two different ways.

TMNT 3 => NT:TNM

Or:

TMNT 3 => TMNT 4

[sdp]

It's clearly based off the movies and in continuity with them. Now this was never officially stated since they're different owners. However the intention is there and plenty of callbacks to the movies. I remember reading how this show had "older" turtles but I haven't been able to find any ads or press releases mentioning that but the fact that the show is not called "Teenage Mutant" seems to help that. Searching you find a lot of old articles referencing that the show is a loose continuation of the OT, I have no idea if that was ever released on a press release or if that was just random false information from an old site that became widespread because there was no news about it in the early days of the internet. However it's interesting to note that the old ninja turtles website included TNM along the OT episode listings. Of course that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the OT because it has absolutely no references to the OT or any similarities whatsoever.

Like I've mentioned the show is pretty much set in the movie universe, which means that TMNT 1 actually takes place in the Power Rangers universe...You might not like that idea and I dont' either but I guess technically all TMNT universes have superheroes in them so it's not really that out of the question. I love how people always mention that it can't be in continuity because Shredder is there yet somehow they never mention that there is no logic to Shredder surviving the first movie and it's more plausible for him to have survived the second movie. The turtles slapstick usage is pretty similar to the one used in TMNT III, in fact I actually think they use it more in TMNT III than the actual TNM show.

Personally I definitely consider it in continuity since all evidence suggests that's what it was intended to be without being more explicit to not have to worry about licensing issues or even later contradicting the movies which would've probably happened if the show had been successful. Now it's weird seeing this being a sequel after watching the first movie since the tone of the two is totally different however if you watch TMNT2 and 3 and then TNM the turtles being the same ones from movie 1 somehow works since you slowly see the umm...change of the characters to the goofy ones they end up as.


Many people like to put TMNT 2007 in continuity with the movies because it's a movie and it had an easter eggs of the past movies but if you read the prequel comics/novels and count that none of the things in the trophy room were too exclusive to the movies and the difference in styles it's safer to assume it's its own beast.

[Andrew NDB]

Many people like to put TMNT 2007 in continuity with the movies

Including the movie's own writer/director. Famously. And that's all that should really matter.

if you read the prequel comics/novels and count that none of the things in the trophy room were too exclusive to the movies and the difference in styles

I wouldn't really hold those as evidence one way or the other as they aren't representative of the shooting script. When I... advised... on the movie, the trophy room scene was one of the things I made a couple suggestions on based on only an earlier script, and lo and behold the finished movie even showed stuff from TMNT III.

[ToTheNines]

Like I've mentioned the show is pretty much set in the movie universe, which means that TMNT 1 actually takes place in the Power Rangers universe...You might not like that idea and I dont' either but I guess technically all TMNT universes have superheroes in them so it's not really that out of the question.

Watching the Power Rangers crossover, I can't even consider it canon with the regular Next Mutation series.

Including the movie's own writer/director. Famously. And that's all that should really matter.

Only because he didn't want to redo the origin story. I mean, I'm glad they didn't go all "Superman Returns" with it I guess, but they put forth no effort to tie it in with the original trilogy.

[pannoni1]

With the Turtles 18 in this series, it makes continual sense that the first three movies happened first. The scar on Shredder's right eye looks to be a result from damage in previous meetings. Its just that the bizarre Shinobi magic turned out to be Shredder's weakness, and is part of the problem why fans hate Venus, as she seemed to "cheat" in terms of the technique used to destroy the Shredder. Its a shame there wasn't a season 2 since Dragon Lord was planning to have a magic that rivaled Shinobi and make Shredder reappear in Season 2.

[Loudo]

I love how people always mention that it can't be in continuity because Shredder is there yet somehow they never mention that there is no logic to Shredder surviving the first movie and it's more plausible for him to have survived the second movie.
Err, I think the biggest problem isn't that the Shredder is alive, but that he's not mutated.

But yeah, I find TNM a more believable sequel to the original trilogy than the forth movie.

[Xav]

Well the 3rd movie is a continuation of the 2nd movie, and the turtles are older in NM than in the 3rd movie, so no.What the hell kind of logic is that? The turtles are capable of aging they don't stay teenagers forever.

[sdp]

Including the movie's own writer/director. Famously. And that's all that should really matter.
Not really, he changed his mind a lot. He mentioned first that this had nothing to do with the other movies then that you could probably count the first one, then he changed it to the first two and then he said that "events similarly" to the movies may have happened and that it was a loose sequel to the movies since similar events happened in this universe. Which doesn't even say much because all version of the turtles have fought shredder and traveled through time. Then we had the trophy room and we saw things from TMNT III which he never even mentioned, which doesn't even make sense since there's no way the movie turtles could've brought back those trophies with them not to mention we see Triceraton guns and mousers two things that don't even happen on screen.


I wouldn't really hold those as evidence one way or the other as they aren't representative of the shooting script. When I... advised... on the movie, the trophy room scene was one of the things I made a couple suggestions on based on only an earlier script, and lo and behold the finished movie even showed stuff from TMNT III.
Well if I remember the whole fandom including me kept whining about how we wanted it to be in continuity and references to the old movies, but that trophy room is hardly a way to say that it's 100% in continuity, at least I can't possibly see it, they are two different storylines, not to mention te timelines wouldn't even make sense because the turtles would be so much older and you can't hide the fact the technology is way different.

Now to give in a little, it's clear TMNT 4 is a loose sequel buy that's it just a loose sequel and I find too many inconsistencies for it to be considered one which is wh I prefer TNM as one, and i was one who really wanted TMNT 2007 to be in continuity before its release. There's even more similarities between the new Nick show TMNT 2007 than with the movies.

Watching the Power Rangers crossover, I can't even consider it canon with the regular Next Mutation series.



Only because he didn't want to redo the origin story. I mean, I' glad they didn't go all "Superman Returns" with it I guess, but they put forth no effort to tie it in with the original trilogy.

Umm...but he did go Superman Returns witht he movie making it a very loose continuation of the movies with tons of contradictions.

And yeah the turtles act pretty damn goofy in the PR crossover but they still don't act that inconsistent for them to not be the same turtles.

With the Turtles 18 in this series, it makes continual sense that the first three movies happened first. The scar on Shredder's right eye looks to be a result from damage in previous meetings. Its just that the bizarre Shinobi magic turned out to be Shredder's weakness, and is part of the problem why fans hate Venus, as she seemed to "cheat" in terms of the technique used to destroy the Shredder. Its a shame there wasn't a season 2 since Dragon Lord was planning to have a magic that rivaled Shinobi and make Shredder reappear in Season 2.

A S2 could've been interesting, it seemed obvious Shredder would return not to mention some of the later episodes were better written so having Bonesteel appear like in his last appearance would've been great. I think Dragonlord might even have taken a stepdown and not been the main bad guy anymore. I remember reading a some stuff online but with no solid sources I don't know how true they might've been but S2 would've definitely improved, in fact most saban shows improved in S2 including VR Troopers and Beetleborgs.

[Guitar_Raph]

However, their musical talent (from that video) was inherited from COOTS, except Mikey & Raph switched instruments while Leo payed guitar & Don played bass.

[ToTheNines]

Umm...but he did go Superman Returns witht he movie making it a very loose continuation of the movies with tons of contradictions.

I meant Returns took an outdated movie and tried to totally copy the look, tone, style, etc. making them feel in-line with one another at least. TMNT didn't do any of that. The voices didn't sound similar, the characters all acted differently, no familiar musical cues, character designs, locations, or movie exclusive characters (Danny, Keno, Tokka, Rahzar, what have you).

Like I said, I'm glad they modernized the concept, but they literally made no effort to make it feel like a sequel to any for the first 3 movies.

[CyberCubed]

The 4th movie almost feels like it could take place in the Nick universe now, just like 5 years later with the Turtles being around 19, and April, Karai and Casey being adults.

The voices sound similar too.

[sdp]

I was going to make a thread about it but I haven't re-watched it to have smaller details fresher in my mind but I think so too like I mentioned there's more similarities, now as more seasons happen we may get some bigger contradictions but yeah their personalities are very similar and TMNT 2007 just feels like it takes place in the Nick universe.

[gobo]

Is Next Mutation in the same universe as the movies?
Loosely so. Yeah. It was marketed that way, especially in Europe.

[ToTheNines]

I was going to make a thread about it but I haven't re-watched it to have smaller details fresher in my mind but I think so too like I mentioned there's more similarities, now as more seasons happen we may get some bigger contradictions but yeah their personalities are very similar and TMNT 2007 just feels like it takes place in the Nick universe.

I guess you could pretend they share a universe right now if you wanted to (even if their personalities are actually very different, especially Leo and Splinter). But as the show goes on there's going to be irreconcilable contradictions.

Main one I see coming up is Karai. In the Imagi TMNT universe, they haven't met until the events of the movie.

[gobo]

Loosely so. Yeah. It was marketed that way, especially in Europe.
For example, the 3rd movie was called "Tortues Ninja : Nouvelle génération" in France. So was "The Next Mutation".

[Andrew NDB]

I meant Returns took an outdated movie and tried to totally copy the look, tone, style, etc. making them feel in-line with one another at least. TMNT didn't do any of that. The voices didn't sound similar, the characters all acted differently, no familiar musical cues,

There was plenty of musical cue callbacks to the first TMNT movie's score.

[ToTheNines]

I can't think of a single one. Example?

[Andrew NDB]

I can't think of a single one. Example?

The "family" theme that plays in just about every heartful scene with Splinter. It's virtually the same song as in the first movie that plays in a few points... particularly when they're around the campfire and see Splinter's astral projection.

[ToTheNines]

That's pretty cool, never noticed

However my point still stands. They didn't recreate any character designs or set pieces, they didn't use anyone like Chief Sterns or Tatsu, they didn't bother to bring back any of the actors to do voice work (save for Jim Cummings, but that's neither here nor there).

Not that I'm complaining. Even if they went the extra mile to make it feel more like the trilogy, the plot's so outlandish that I still wouldn't have bought it as a sequel to them. And even if they did want to make it a hard sequel to the 90's trilogy, it was pretty obvious that WB/Playmates or whoever was more concerned whether it would work as a feature length toy commercial or not.

[CyberCubed]

The 4th movie was designed in a way where it could be ambiguous. I bet some kids who saw the movies in theaters back in 2007 thought it took place with the 4kids series for example.

Other than Karai meeting the Turtles for the first time, everything else was almost interchangeable with any other universe.

[Jester]

Heck some of the books on sale for TMNT almost made it seem like a continuation of the 4Kids series....I mean Silver Sentry is mentioned in one.

[darthsmozers]

The answer is to the thread title is "Yes."

But the movieverse itself seems multiple choice.

TMNT 1 => TMNT 2 => TMNT 3 =>

... it then branches two different ways.

TMNT 3 => NT:TNM

Or:

TMNT 3 => TMNT 4

Its like a "choose your own adventure" :tgrin:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The 4th movie was designed in a way where it could be ambiguous. I bet some kids who saw the movies in theaters back in 2007 thought it took place with the 4kids series for example.



Yeah, It was probably the only TMNT universe they knew.

[chrisdude]

Did the trophy room contain anything specific to Next Mutation?

It was always my impression that TMNT was meant to be a sequel to everything, not just a fourth movie in the series.

Obviously, everything is a franchise, these days, and the intention was surely to reboot TMNT as a new movie series. They just decided to use everything as the launching point instead of choosing a single universe. Which was probably the right thing to do.


I kind of felt the same way about Next Mutation. I didn't consider it a sequel to the OT or the movie trilogy. It was just the next Ninja Turtles, and the subway station was the most familiar setting.