Any Fans of Pre-crisis Batman?

[MikeandRaph87]

Looking through Batman's history in comics I always go back to the mid 60s to the mid 80s. So many great stories,creators,and characters are found here more than any other Bat-time. To me the days of Earth-1 Batman was when the character was at his best!

[ZariusTwo]

I've loved just about every era of Batman (except New 52 Batsy, which feels quite empty), but I do long for the days of Steve Englehart

[MikeandRaph87]

Every era has its pluses and minuses but there is no era like the days of Earth-1 Batman that define the character. There is always a list of all-star creators but the stable at that time can't compare to any other. Julius Schwartz oversaw Denny O'Neil,Steve Englehart,Len Wein, David Verne Reeves,Frank Robinson,Bob Rozakis, Gerry Conway, Neal Adams, Dick Giordano, Carmine Infanto, Jim Aparo,Marshall Rogers, and Terry Austin. Best set of creators anyway its looked at!

I am also a sucker for stories with Batman,Robin, and Batgirl working together instead of legacies and other characters that protect Gotham. The Bruce. Dick, Barbara team is the best...okay aside from a certain green machine!

[Candy Kappa]

I love any good written Batman story, doesn't matter what era.

[Cipher]

I ordered Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 and 5 the other day (2-4 were out of stock and possibly out of print?) and am pretty stoked for them to arrive. I've never read any pre-crisis Batman before (or much Batman in general), but this seemed like a great way to start. I'm certainly not averse to the silliness.

Quick question: Am I correct in guessing that earlier volumes of DC's "Chronicles" collections are going/have gone out of print? If so, do they have plans for another Golden/Silver Age line in the near future, or am I just kind of SOL for now if I want to continue with the material?

[MikeandRaph87]

I ordered Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 and 5 the other day (2-4 were out of stock and possibly out of print?) and am pretty stoked for them to arrive. I've never read any pre-crisis Batman before (or much Batman in general), but this seemed like a great way to start. I'm certainly not averse to the silliness.

Quick question: Am I correct in guessing that earlier volumes of DC's "Chronicles" collections are going/have gone out of print? If so, do they have plans for another Golden/Silver Age line in the near future, or am I just kind of SOL for now if I want to continue with the material?

Yes, it is true. Earlier volumes are going out of print. If you want to sample the Golden Age Batman you need to get it now before the volumes get too pricey. Batman Archives which prints Detective Comics has Detective Comics#27(1st appearance) through #172 collected in 8 volumes. Prices vary online from $20-$50 per volume. Batman:The Dark Knight has 8 volumes collecting the first 37 issues of the Batman title going to early Summer '46 while the Detective Comics issues released through early Summer '51 have been collected in the other.
I Have both of the Robins and the Dynamic Duo and #7 of the 'Tec collections for Riddler's two Golden Age appearances. I have managed to get them all for $35-$40 range. Just remember getting older stories collected can be a little hurt in the wallet. Chronicles was the way to sample both Batman and Detective Comics before the out of print.

The reason I started this thread was I have come to appreciate early on when digging in the back issue bins the pre-crisis Batman stories more than any other. I am a regular poster at an outgrowth of dccomics.com's successor message board after it was shutdown to go social media ego stroking. I conituned a thread on there I had at the dccomics mb covering everything pre-crisis Batman. The whole repalcement message board is a friendly place to haunt. Here is a link if you are interested.
http://new.dcuwiki.net/forums/index.php

[Cipher]

Batman Archives which prints Detective Comics has Detective Comics#27(1st appearance) through #172 collected in 8 volumes. Prices vary online from $20-$50 per volume. Batman:The Dark Knight has 8 volumes collecting the first 37 issues of the Batman title going to early Summer '46 while the Detective Comics issues released through early Summer '51 have been collected in the other.
Yeah, I was aware of the Archives as well, but the higher prices put me off. The $10-$15 range for the Chronicles books on Amazon was what attracted me to begin with (and their completeness). I don't know if I'm comfortable paying much more than that, considering the material is such a grab-bag.

I guess I'll just keep an eye out for those early volumes.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, I was aware of the Archives as well, but the higher prices put me off. The $10-$15 range for the Chronicles books on Amazon was what attracted me to begin with (and their completeness). I don't know if I'm comfortable paying much more than that, considering the material is such a grab-bag.

I guess I'll just keep an eye out for those early volumes.

My advice would be to get two volumes to sample and the best price effective way would be chronicles. Amazon has the best deal. Depending on the size of your local shop there are sure to be a few copies of various Chronicles to pick up. I would suggest starting at the beginning with vol.1 as you did. You will get a grab bag of good or so-so stories. Nothing aweful. In vol.1 you meet Dr. Death followed by The Monk and then the first reoccuring villain Professor Hugo Strange before Dick Grayson joins the fight just before Batman#1 which introduced both Joker and Catwoman (in separate stories). In the second volume Clayface( the way Basil was originally concieved) appears. I don't think Penguin and Two Face appear until #3. Still #1 and #5 should be sample enough. The super villain storeis are the better stories as it is most of the time. Its a good change of pace from the current stuff. Check out my other message board if you have any questions or want to explore it further.:)

Edit: These are pretty goods reads. Batman by the decade. 1940s-1980s.

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Forties-Various/dp/1401202063

This is how I sampled Batman by the decade x years back.

[MikeandRaph87]

I thought I would bump up the thread and ask if there are any comic readers who enjoy Batman of any time of the 40s up to the mid 80s'. I really enjoy reading the Earth-One days especially the Batman stories Frank Robbins, Denny O'Neil, Steve Englehart, Len Wein, Gerry Conway, and others.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I have Batman Chronicles vol.1. And of what I've read, Pre-Crises Batman seems quite good as a character.

[Leo656]

I like all Batman, really. I kind of have a distaste for the goofier 50s/60s stuff but the latter-day Silver Age stuff was really, really good. For the longest time, I felt like Frank Miller unfairly got all the credit for making Batman "darker" when Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams had way more to do with it going way back to the 70s.

You can't really go wrong with Batman of any era, though.

[CyberCubed]

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

Yeah, that's about right.

[Leo656]

Y'know, for barely anything, you could just pick up "The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told" in TPB and start there. Just saying.

Actually, go ahead and get "The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told", too, since there was only room for one Joker story in the Batman trade.

That's not going to cover everything, obviously, but it's a good sampling of the better stories from each decade. That, and the foreword and post-script go into a lot of great detail about how and why the franchise was changed a lot over the years.

[MikeandRaph87]

Can someone educate me on how Batman comics of each decade were? I think it was something like this:

- Creation through the 40's = dark, gritty, a bit out of character and one dimensional because they didn't know how they wanted Batman to be yet

- 50's-60's = goofy, too much sci-fi, cheesy like the 60's show, Robin and the villains were too campy to be taken seriously

- 70's = first serious era of Batman comics, started to get stronger and better characterisation for Batman and his rogues gallery

- Mid 80's - 90's = dark modern Batman, sometimes too overboard, probably what most modern fans are well aware on

- 2000's era Batman = more of the same, too many retcons and Robin's introduced

- New 52 Batman = basically a cluster of everything before


Is this basically it?

Really you would have to get the decade samples that collected in Batman In The 40s'-Batman In The 80s' and see for your self to form your own opinion. It does a decent job in picking out stories but each of them could be better. There are also other trades to sample the character in different eras.

The first several months as a moody guy in a costume that was no afraid to kill, pretty much an extension of the earlier Pulp heroes. When Jerry showed Bill a young hero of Robin and wanting to widen the appeal of having the reader on the adventure and give Batman someone to talk to. That made him more of a role model type and swore off killing as of Batman#1 a few weeks shy of a year of his debut. From there it was 12 pages epics of Batman and Robin facing the underworld, Joker, Penguin, Catwoman and the occasional costumed crook like Two Face, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, and the Tweeds, and Cavalier. By '46 the darker tales that commonly saw victims, molls, and a few villains die it lightened up.

1947-1955 This timeframe saw the Dynamic Duo come into more surreal situations fighting in different eras thanks to Bruce's scientist friend who let Bruce and Dick mentally project themselves in King Arthur's Court among other times and places. Chasing Joker over a giant type writer would be likely.

1956-1963 Science-Fiction took a hold as Batman was visited by alien both good and evil and the concept that Mattel ran with of variant Batman was first realized her with everything from Bat-Baby to Rainbow Batman. Batwoman would woo Batman and fight at his side while despite his attraction to her told her it was not her place. Bat-Mite inspired by Mr. Mxyzptlk appeared reoccurring during this time and a half dozen appearances by Batgirl's precursor this time as does Bruce's trusty Bat-Hound. Its sometimes referred to as The Camp Family era.

1964-1969-The Earth-One Batman appears and gets a design change on his costume as Alfred is briefly killed off until Batman'66 producers announce he will appear. Batman plays detective even if on a bit of a goofy plot. Plainclothes baddies are common as well as one note costumed crooks. Villains Riddler and Scarecrow join the Rogues Gallery full-time. As this period progresses the camp takes hold in means of plot overturning the more detective feel that DC was going for.

1970-1984-A darker feel is seen in his surrounding with dark mysteries, and foes like Man-Bat and Ra's al Ghul and Killer Croc towards the era end who are more dark in origin and reflect the comic era. This is the era that showcases the classic Batman/Robin/Batgirl team working together or solo. While its decidingly moodier its still an era of fun stories and Batman himself having a lighter mood especially in other books such as Brave and the Bold, World's Finest, and Batman Family which featured Robin & Batgirl before it folded into Detective to save the title.

1985-1989-As the comic landscape matured Robin left the batcave and was replaced by an unpopular clone and later hotheaded street punk and for a time as Batman and Detective Comics wove the same story by the same writer became reminiscent of a gothic soap opera. Batgirl faded away and was sat up to become an information broker. The replacement Robin dies and reality consolidates into one earth with one continuity.

1989-1995- Batman would increasingly gain allies with a third Robin, Huntress, Spoiler, and Azrael. The more urban feel developed around '87 would still be felt and a newcomer reflecting Killer Croc's arrival but going a step further Bane wears down Batman and attacks him only to break his back as apart of the mega storyline KnightFall leading to Azrael and then Nightwing to take on the mantle of the bat briefly.

1996-2006- Batman would see a series of crossovers among a range of Bat-titles following KinghtFall experiencing a deadly virus outbreak, a horrific Earthquake and for trying to stop Lex Luthor from using Gotham's situation to gain political appeal set up for murderer of a girlfriend, Black Mask rises to prominence after a mistake made by an associate in War Games, and his thought to be dead Robin controversially brought back.

2007-2012 Batman's history and character is all examined in folded neatly by Grant Morrison while learning he was a son born lab experiment. Darkseid's failed invasion leads Batman onto a time traveling journey while Dick Grayson once again becomes Batman and this time Damian as his Robin. The reboot put the successful direction to a halt and Batman is rebooted and renumbered.

How is that for you? Broken down and summarized for a casual reader to get a better understanding of Batman and his publication history.

[Leo656]

That's a pretty spiffy piece of work.

And there are really great stories from ALL those eras, even if you have to dig a little or sift through some cheese. The gems are worth it. Some of the 50s stuff was pretty zany, but still fun. :)

[MikeandRaph87]

That's a pretty spiffy piece of work.

And there are really great stories from ALL those eras, even if you have to dig a little or sift through some cheese. The gems are worth it. Some of the 50s stuff was pretty zany, but still fun. :)

Ah, thanks. I was trying to break it down by overall directions and going by decades does not work. Just look at how different Batman is in 1980 compared to 1990 for example. Feel free to nit-pick the way I divided the eras. To prove your point about the weak 1956-1963 era just look at Batman#113 as it contains The Menace of False Face and The Superman of Planet X both notable classics in the same issue. Also, Penguin returns from his 7 year hiatus in a campy but great 1963 story Return of The Penguin.


http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_113

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_155

This is a panel that took place at the just completed SDCC. I can't find a video but this is a sample of what I love this era more than any other before my time or not.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54428

[Leo656]

Yeah, and even some of the stuff that isn't great is still kind of interesting in a "Huh, well I'll be" kinda way. Like how there were like 4 or 5 guys that were Two-Face all the way through the 70s (and that he was originally named Harvey Kent). Obviously that's all been hand-waved away by history, but it's still kind of neat to read with the benefit of hindsight. There's a lot of stuff like that from way back when.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, and even some of the stuff that isn't great is still kind of interesting in a "Huh, well I'll be" kinda way. Like how there were like 4 or 5 guys that were Two-Face all the way through the 70s (and that he was originally named Harvey Kent). Obviously that's all been hand-waved away by history, but it's still kind of neat to read with the benefit of hindsight. There's a lot of stuff like that from way back when.

Batman:The Black Casebook tpb is something Cubed and others should pick up for that type of story. Its on Amazon or available through Diamond Distributing if you ask your LCS owner to order one for you.

Two Face was cured in 1954 and his Earth-2 counterpart actually got a happy endi g while Paul Solane a new anchorman carried on in Two Face's place. Meanwhile in regular continuity Two Face returns regularly starting in 1971 thanks to Denny O'Neil and a hunt for a treasure.

All three of those stories I mentioned,Robin Dies At Dawn, The Great Joker-Clayface Fued, The Joker's Comedy Capers, 50 Faces Of Batman,Challenge of The Calendar Man are glld tales from that era. It was not all aliens both good and evil,Camp Familynand silly plot resolutions.

Btw Cubed,what do you think of the breakdowns I gave you for the periods?

[MogwaiNinja89]

Batman has one of the best pedigree's of any longer running superhero.

I'm not a big Golden Age/Silver Age fan. I find many of the those older comics from the 50s/60s to be dull and one-note. Some of it can be fun and I get it was a different time period, it's just not for me.

With that said, Batmans early Bob Kane books are pretty good. His campy Silver Age books can be a fun diversion once in a while. I can't read them one after the other, but 2 or 3 once in a while is fun. I think all through out the 70s/80s/90s and 2000s that Batman has been wildly consistent. Not everything is aces, but for such a long running character with so many titles...it's a miracle so much of it is quality.

[MikeandRaph87]

Speaking of Two Face and his early history...Two Face was originally set to appear in Batman(1966). He was to be Harvey Dent but have the origin of his replacement. It was scrapped just before being shot deeming the Two Face character too scary for the youthful audience. It will be released in a oneshot comic as the 121st episode by comic book legends Len Wein and Jose Garcia Lopez. Its digital first and will be released in early December in print.

http://www.newsarama.com/21892-first-look-harlan-ellison-s-batman-66-the-lost-episode-variant-cover.html

[MikeandRaph87]

I have begun reading through my run of Batman from 1968-1983 and was wondering if anyone has any interest of discussing storylines from that time frame. Also if anyone wants to be referred a story of interest or discuss the characters at the time.

[Spike Spiegel]

I'm currently reading through the Neal Adams omnibus and like what I see so far.

[MikeandRaph87]

I'm currently reading through the Neal Adams omnibus and like what I see so far.

Which issues specifically have you read? Batman#237 is probably my favorite Batman story overall. I can link you to further stories if you wish. There is hardly a team that can reach the status of legendary writer and artist beyond initial creators the way this pair has.

[TurtleTitan97]

Recently read the following issues, featuring Ra's Al Ghul:

◾Detective Comics #411
◾Batman #232
◾Batman #235
◾Batman #240
◾Batman #242
◾Batman #243
◾Batman #244
◾DC Special Series #15
◾Detective Comics #485
◾Detective Comics #489
◾Detective Comics #490

[myconius]

I love any good written Batman story, doesn't matter what era.

^ what she said! :D

[myconius]

I'm currently reading through the Neal Adams omnibus and like what I see so far.

i had that on pre-order but decided to cancel it since i already have all the individual Hardcovers volumes.

i love the later stories in the run with Man-Bat!!! :D

Joker's 5-Way revenge was pretty cool, eve though Batman was kind'a doofy in it. :lol:



thug- can i go back and get my toothbrush?
Batman- a reasonable request.
thug- you go first, i'll follow.
Batman- ok.
(thug bashes Batman on the back of the head)

YUP! not one of Batman's finest moments! :lol:

[MikeandRaph87]

I do find that sequence out of character. Since when is Batman gullible? Joker gets the best of Batman sneak attacking him too not long after that.

It did give us this iconic image:
http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_l6n87rqnqg1qbgo38.jpg

The next Joker story was even more zany. It was in Batman#260 also by Denny O'Neil which saw the Joker give Batman a toxin in coffee in Arkham that caused him to laugh himself to death unless he can get to one of two people who can cure him in three days. Two-Face plays the good guy in a cameo thanks to the good side turning up on the coin flip!

[Spike Spiegel]

Which issues specifically have you read? Batman#237 is probably my favorite Batman story overall. I can link you to further stories if you wish. There is hardly a team that can reach the status of legendary writer and artist beyond initial creators the way this pair has.

I skipped through a lot of the "World's Finest" stuff; the last thing I read was the second chapter of that "Man-Bat" storyarc.

I will be on the lookout for #237.

[myconius]

I do find that sequence out of character. Since when is Batman gullible? Joker gets the best of Batman sneak attacking him too not long after that.

It did give us this iconic image:
http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_l6n87rqnqg1qbgo38.jpg

The next Joker story was even more zany. It was in Batman#260 also by Denny O'Neil which saw the Joker give Batman a toxin in coffee in Arkham that caused him to laugh himself to death unless he can get to one of two people who can cure him in three days. Two-Face plays the good guy in a cameo thanks to the good side turning up on the coin flip!

i still love the comic even though those parts make me cringe every time i read it!!! xD

but yeah, that is my single most favorite panel Neal has ever drawn!!! :D

it really does go to prove that no matter how crappy some comic writing can be, as LONG as the art is amazing the Team-up will always go down in history as being Legendary!!!
the stuff Denny O'neil wrote for LotDK never got as much positive attention as the work he wrote with Neal.

it's just a shame Neal's Batman Odyssey got so badly ripped apart! sure it's not the best writing in the world, but i still had fun with it for all it's campiness.

i was lucky enough to get to see the original inked comic art for these pages here.

it was SO beautiful!!!
i thought i was going to pass out in it's presence!

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/b12.jpg

[MikeandRaph87]

The problem with Neal later art was the late Dick Giordano did not ink his art. Neal will be the first to tell you that he may be a great artist, but his art would not be half as good without Giordano to make it much better. Odyssey printed after Dick's death is good proof of that as well as the redrawn versions of issues in Neal Adams Illustrated volumes.

As far as Odyssey's art one thing bothered me is Batman's eyes are seen instead of slits. It also bugged me with Perez doing that in Dick Grayson's latter days as Robin. I realize there is a larger population of people with black hair and blue eyes in the DCU, but it is best to shield them for identity reason among others.

[TurtleTitan97]

Odyssey is probably the first Batman story that I've read so far that I actually dropped. Everything from the art, dialogue, and story was completely awful.

[MikeandRaph87]

Odyssey is probably the first Batman story that I've read so far that I actually dropped. Everything from the art, dialogue, and story was completely awful.

Like I said Neal is in his early 70s and Dick is no longer around to ink it, but the art is a problem? He and Jose Garcia Lopez define the way I see DC Comics characters with their drawings. As for the story, I cannot speak of it as I have only flipped through it. The series came out during a time I was on a tight grad school budget so I cannot speak for the plot. I understand it is a bit out there and includes Robin, Aquaman and Deadman.

[myconius]

i personally enjoyed the art.

the inking was a bit sketchy at points, but that really didn't bother me.

[MikeandRaph87]

Neal never drew Batgirl in a comic during the character's heyday which crossed over with his peak. Here is his rendition of Batgirl. I love the way it is drawn, but would have liked to see what Dick's inks would have done to his Batgirl.
http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/5a/ca/205acab0cc433277544812e247c431d8.jpg

[myconius]

Neal never drew Batgirl in a comic during the character's heyday which crossed over with his peak. Here is his rendition of Batgirl. I love the way it is drawn, but would have liked to see what Dick's inks would have done to his Batgirl.
http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/5a/ca/205acab0cc433277544812e247c431d8.jpg

i could be mistaken, but i don't think Neal ever drew Catwoman back in his classic run either? which is a shame because i absolutely love Catwoman and would really have enjoyed seeing the rendition.

[TurtleTitan97]

Like I said Neal is in his early 70s and Dick is no longer around to ink it, but the art is a problem?

For this particular story, yes. Compared to his early work, his recent art is like that of Miller: Garbage

[myconius]

no way!!! Neal and Frank Miller are not even in the same boat!!

.....not even the same ocean!!!

[MikeandRaph87]

no way!!! Neal and Frank Miller are not even in the same boat!!

.....not even the same ocean!!!

Amen to that. I never understood the fascination and praise both Miller and Alan Moore for that matter got. Bleak street grit. I did enjoy Batman Year One and for Moore I liked the follow up of Clayface III in Batman Annual#11. One story I like each does not mean pantheon of creators in my opinion.

Neal and Jose are my #1 and #2 artist and forever capture the heroes of DC Comics in a classic era.

Catwoman appeared in Batman#256 and Batman#266, but I do not believe Neal drew the O'Neil penned stories. Neal's last job as regular artist was Batman#255.

[TurtleTitan97]

no way!!! Neal and Frank Miller are not even in the same boat!!

.....not even the same ocean!!!

Have you READ his recent work? The man has lost his touch, and Batman Odyssey and his recent Superman comic are proof of it..

[MikeandRaph87]

Have you READ his recent work? The man has lost his touch, and Batman Odyssey and his recent Superman comic are proof of it..

The problem is Neal is a legendary artist he is not a writer. It is one of the cases of a superstar artist who thinks they can write. Can Neal? I don't know. There are quite a few of those. Some can do it, just look at the Mirage Dudes, but they are not rockstar artist either but above average in multiple areas. Prez tried it after giving Marv Wolfman plot points when he wrote Wonder Woman after COIE or recent example of Tony Daniel in the Batman title.

[myconius]

Have you READ his recent work? The man has lost his touch, and Batman Odyssey and his recent Superman comic are proof of it..

i was buying Batman Odyssey when it was in single issues, and also bought the collected Hardcover.

call me kooky bananas, but i actually liked the silly campiness of it.
was it as good as his original comics about R'as Al Ghul? not even as close!
but no matter how silly Batman Odyssey was it was no where near as bad as Dark Knight Strikes Again!!! xP
that story stunk so bad it'd make an onion cry!!! :lol:


Amen to that. I never understood the fascination and praise both Miller and Alan Moore for that matter got. Bleak street grit. I did enjoy Batman Year One and for Moore I liked the follow up of Clayface III in Batman Annual#11. One story I like each does not mean pantheon of creators in my opinion.

Neal and Jose are my #1 and #2 artist and forever capture the heroes of DC Comics in a classic era.

Catwoman appeared in Batman#256 and Batman#266, but I do not believe Neal drew the O'Neil penned stories. Neal's last job as regular artist was Batman#255.

no i do have to admit, i do in fact enjoy some of Miller's work before he completely went Berserk.
i absolutely love the early stories i've read of Sin City, though i've never finished it yet.

but some of the stuff he's put out in the last few years was just depressingly awful!!!
Dark Knight Strikes Again is a shining example of "what the H%$@ Happened??"

but hey, even King George went mad right?

if Neal didn't actually draw Catwoman i don't count it as part of the iconic run.
such a shame, but what can ya do??
Neal missed the boat drawing my favorite female character in comics!
so that lowers my opinion of him as an artist now! :lol:
just kidding! :P but not really! :D

[MikeandRaph87]

I read the four part " The Lazarus Affair" from Batman#332-#335 for the first time in ten years. This is the origin of the Lazarus pits and it had a detail in it I had completely forgotten about, Wolfman had Talia to be 150 years old but the touch of her father's hand keeps her form aging past Dick Grayson's age bracket. I wonder if the brief skirmish between Batman ad Ra's inspire part of Ra's first appearance in Batman: TAS. Of course the first part mirrored Batman#232, but there were similarities to Batman#335 as well. It was a good character piece for Robin and Catwoman though it does not go into reason why Dick Grayson left Hudson University. Also fans of Young Justice will note the location of Ra's base op operations this time around is Infinity Island which was the villains base on Young Justice. The red bubble that eats flesh? That was lame, but I only have minor gripes on this well done story.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/2/2f/Batman_335.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081128211535

[MikeandRaph87]

I will read Batman#1 and the first two of the four stories in Batman#2 by Sunday evening alongside Myconius. If anyone else wants to pull out their reprints and read alongside us you are most welcome to do so. We will drop commentary of the half dozen stories Sunday-Monday so hope you all chime in.

[myconius]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGM_vLsWIAAAUOr.jpg

be there .... or be square!

[myconius]

i re-read the original 1940's Batman #1 today.
there's such an awesome charm to these silly stories i love, and there's so many goofy things that happen that really make me crack up! :lol:

one thing i do love is the creepiness they got from the Joker, right from the get-go!!!
it's still pretty terrifying when his victims get poisoned with Joker-venom and die with those hideous grins!

the first victim was particularly freaky how after he died the grin slowly formed on his face like rigor-mortis.

when they tried to get a little more creative with the deaths that's when i thought they got a little TOO silly. like the tiny dart inside the phone or the sharp edges on the cards laced with Joker-venom.

one thing we can learn from comics is if someone is lunging at you with a knife just step to the side and they'll stab themselves in the chest. :lol:

seriously, these scenarios are TOO silly not to have fun with! :D

i do crack up every time i see the panel where Batman punches Hugo strange out the window!! :lol:
and i LOVE the Monster Men!!!! they are just WICKED creepy!!!

one of the coolest scenes in the non-Joker non-Hugo Strange stories was when Batman rounded all the thugs guns away from them and had then fist fight little Robin four against one, and Robin beat their @$$&$!!! :lol:

[myconius]

the Monster-Men Story in Batman #1 was so much fun!!!
recently re-reading it wasn't as socking as the first time seeing Batman kiiling in cold blood!!

http://i.stack.imgur.com/8UOOR.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2116/144/1600/BATMAN001-Gun.jpg


and i don't buy into that baloney 'Earth Two' theory that Batman Killed cuz it was from an arternate reality!
where's the FUN in that???

[myconius]

i read those stories you recommended from detective comics 434 & 435, as well as batman 276.

definitely an amusing villain!! really had a sense of the scooby doo cartoons from back in the day!

[MikeandRaph87]

Joker stars out as a murderous jewel theif. He killed his victims to get their riches and wanted his mark left behind as a sign of arrogance. It is funny how Joker dies rayher definitively every early appearance. Thrown to a watery grave, caught in a fire, etc.

Batman let Catwoman go by tripping Robin just because he was attracted to her. While Batman claiming he had no choice, but to claim lives as he shot Strange's henchmen it's just as odd letting a criminal go because of that.


Do you see what I mean of The Spook being a formible foe for Batman thst could have continued instead of disapoearing only to resurface to fullfill a joke need?

[myconius]

Joker stars out as a murderous jewel theif. He killed his victims to get their riches and wanted his mark left behind as a sign of arrogance. It is funny how Joker dies rayher definitively every early appearance. Thrown to a watery grave, caught in a fire, etc.

Batman let Catwoman go by tripping Robin just because he was attracted to her. While Batman claiming he had no choice, but to claim lives as he shot Strange's henchmen it's just as odd letting a criminal go because of that.


Do you see what I mean of The Spook being a formible foe for Batman thst could have continued instead of disapoearing only to resurface to fullfill a joke need?

i did rather enjoy the early Joker appearances. he was just the right combination of entertaining and creepy.
the way his victims would take on those death grins was TERRIFYING! :teek:

i did crack up a Batman letting Catwoman go like that! poor Robin got goofed! :lol:

in all honesty i don't think that'd be it for Spook though.
did they say his actual identity was someone that had already been given capital punishment?
but i don't know if those gags would still hold up today? the man-hole cover switch flipping open the big trap door in the street. :lol:
i swear i'd seen that gag once in scooby doo one time??? :D

still it was a lot of fun! thanks again for pointing those issues out to me! :)

[MikeandRaph87]

i did rather enjoy the early Joker appearances. he was just the right combination of entertaining and creepy.
the way his victims would take on those death grins was TERRIFYING! :teek:

i did crack up a Batman letting Catwoman go like that! poor Robin got goofed! :lol:

in all honesty i don't think that'd be it for Spook though.
did they say his actual identity was someone that had already been given capital punishment?
but i don't know if those gags would still hold up today? the man-hole cover switch flipping open the big trap door in the street. :lol:
i swear i'd seen that gag once in scooby doo one time??? :D

still it was a lot of fun! thanks again for pointing those issues out to me! :)

Batman#5 has a good Joker story if you have not read it. Don't want to give anything away. Yes, Joker left sadistic grins on his victims from the beginning. The point is he was originally a jewel thief just like Catwoman. The difference was one was lethal in methods and the other was not.


The Spook was in an issue of Scooby Doo Team Up, #3. So it is funny that you mention that.

Val Kaliban was sentenced to the electric chair, but rigged it not to work and faked his death. Kaiban was an escape artist and challenged Batman in that perspective of Bruce's supposed strengths. In another appearance he made Batman think he was dead.

[myconius]

Batman#5 has a good Joker story if you have not read it. Don't want to give anything away. Yes, Joker left sadistic grins on his victims from the beginning. The point is he was originally a jewel thief just like Catwoman. The difference was one was lethal in methods and the other was not.


The Spook was in an issue of Scooby Doo Team Up, #3. So it is funny that you mention that.

Val Kaliban was sentenced to the electric chair, but rigged it not to work and faked his death. Kaiban was an escape artist and challenged Batman in that perspective of Bruce's supposed strengths. In another appearance he made Batman think he was dead.

i'll definitely have to check out that Joker story in #5. :)
yeah i think most of the villains motives back then was larceny before they made most all of them into nothing more than a bunch of mass murderers.
(cuz that's just TOO hip 'n cool 'n edgy 'n stuff :lol: )

HA! Spook showed up in Scooby Doo??? that's TOO perfect! :D

i think Val Kaliban must have some connects with some corrupt officials or something with the things he's able to pull off?
he's gotta have some sort of higher up access of some kind???

but even his imagery was awesomely wicked!! he did remind me of the the chocolate, strawberry & vanilla ghouls they had the one time on Scooby Doo! :D

http://radioactive-studios.com/biohazard-films/files/2015/03/Scooby-05a-BadHumorMan-Villains.jpg

seriously though .... how COOL were these guys???? :D

[MikeandRaph87]

http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication/v4/6b/ec/9f/6bec9ff1-84ee-a641-e8e6-1d7536ca6b2f/PAGE_004.480x480-75.jpg

Spook worked with one-shot Batman foe False Face, made known by the pair of Batman (1966) apoearances.

To tease Batman#5, it debuts the Batmobile and shows it is not too difficult to deduce Batman's true identity if you interact with both in a short period.

I am not familiar with the flavored ghost as I have only seen a few episodes of Scooby Doo outside the entire series of Scooby Doo Movies and A Pup Named Scooby Doo.

[myconius]

http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication/v4/6b/ec/9f/6bec9ff1-84ee-a641-e8e6-1d7536ca6b2f/PAGE_004.480x480-75.jpg

Spook worked with one-shot Batman foe False Face, made known by the pair of Batman (1966) apoearances.

To tease Batman#5, it debuts the Batmobile and shows it is not too difficult to deduce Batman's true identity if you interact with both in a short period.

I am not familiar with the flavored ghost as I have only seen a few episodes of Scooby Doo outside the entire series of Scooby Doo Movies and A Pup Named Scooby Doo.

there was something really awesome about seeing Spook drawn in that 1970's style art. he had that elongated and lanky ghoulish look.

it did strike me as odd that his original appearances had him with a bald head and in Batman and Son it looked like he had a full head of hair.
Meh! comic continuity, never an exact science. :lol:

i'll definitely have to add the classic Batman #5 on my 'to read' list!
i'm sure i must have read many of the early stories already from buying the 'archives' collection a few years back. but it all just gets jumbled and becomes a blur.

i don't remember much about those ice-cream flavored scooby doo ghosts other than them looking really cool! (no pun intended :lol: )
i looked it up and the episode was called 'Scooby Doo: The Ghost of the Bad Humor Man'
but i can't really say it's worth going out of one's way to search for.

[MikeandRaph87]

Kaliban had been inactive from 1983 to using him as a punch-line about how older villains cannot adapt in late 2003 and then that appearance which you speak of.
http://random-happenstance.blogspot.com/2012/05/i-need-to-set-up-tag-for-recidivism.html

Here is the Batman#5 main story which debuts the Batmobile aside form the red convertible that was used a couple of times before.
http://goldenagebat.blogspot.com/2012/04/batman-5-spring-1941.html

[myconius]

i absolutely love that cover to issue 5!

[myconius]

Kaliban had been inactive from 1983 to using him as a punch-line about how older villains cannot adapt in late 2003 and then that appearance which you speak of.
http://random-happenstance.blogspot.com/2012/05/i-need-to-set-up-tag-for-recidivism.html

Here is the Batman#5 main story which debuts the Batmobile aside form the red convertible that was used a couple of times before.
http://goldenagebat.blogspot.com/2012/04/batman-5-spring-1941.html

issue 5 was pretty awesome! so what that the original debut of the Royal Flush gang?

[MikeandRaph87]

issue 5 was pretty awesome! so what that the original debut of the Royal Flush gang?

I would say an related precursor to it. The actual group did not debut until the mid 60s in the JLA comic. Its one my favorite 1940s stories. Knights of Knavery in Batman#25 is good as well as a story which Brucecshows Dick urban life at night in Batman#31. I don't recall the title,but it was something like "When The City Sleeps".

What did you think of how Queen deduced Batman's identity and Robin lifting Joker over his shoulders to a watery grave in response of his kidnapping?

[myconius]

I would say an related precursor to it. The actual group did not debut until the mid 60s in the JLA comic. Its one my favorite 1940s stories. Knights of Knavery in Batman#25 is good as well as a story which Brucecshows Dick urban life at night in Batman#31. I don't recall the title,but it was something like "When The City Sleeps".

What did you think of how Queen deduced Batman's identity and Robin lifting Joker over his shoulders to a watery grave in response of his kidnapping?

yeah these early 'Batman' comics definitely were a lot of fun! not as grim as the stuff of 'Detective Comics'.

i had a good chuckle as soon as i saw Bruce Wayne nic himself shaving!!! :D
it was definitely an - "OH BOY! i know where THIS is going" moment!!! :lol:

[MikeandRaph87]

yeah these early 'Batman' comics definitely were a lot of fun! not as grim as the stuff of 'Detective Comics'.

i had a good chuckle as soon as i saw Bruce Wayne nic himself shaving!!! :D
it was definitely an - "OH BOY! i know where THIS is going" moment!!! :lol:

Yes, it was one of those easy to figure out plot points. It shows the ease in figuring out secret identities in the real world.

The 1940s have a few gems mixed in that is easily ocerlooked. I was surprised Dick did the judo move and Bruce and him did not reflect on Dick possibly killing him.

[myconius]

Yes, it was one of those easy to figure out plot points. It shows the ease in figuring out secret identities in the real world.

The 1940s have a few gems mixed in that is easily ocerlooked. I was surprised Dick did the judo move and Bruce and him did not reflect on Dick possibly killing him.

plus i think early comic writers just didn't give their characters any real common sense.

i always come back to 'Joker's 5 Way revenge with that moment the Thug wants to go back to his place to get his toothbrush. :lol:
and of corse Batman's just like - "that's a reasonable request."

and i'm reading it saying to myself 'BATMAN ARE YOU FREAKING NUTS???' :o

but still i like the feeling of adventure these really early stories had.
plus there was never a problem a good sock on the jaw couldn't solve! :lol:

yeah, it's pretty amazing the thoughtlessness the heroes would sometimes display towards life endangerment too! :lol:

[myconius]

MikeandRaph87, i figure you'd be the guy to ask this question-

was Dr. Daedalus and/or Spyral used in DC stories before Grant Morrison had them in his Batman run?

[MikeandRaph87]

MikeandRaph87, i figure you'd be the guy to ask this question-

was Dr. Daedalus and/or Spyral used in DC stories before Grant Morrison had them in his Batman run?

He was a Grant Morrison creation. The uncle of Kathy Kane was all Grant Morrison. The Spyral organization as well. The closest thing I can think of is Spyral is an evil Checkmate which itself was a gray area.

[myconius]

He was a Grant Morrison creation. The uncle of Kathy Kane was all Grant Morrison. The Spyral organization as well. The closest thing I can think of is Spyral is an evil Checkmate which itself was a gray area.

ah HA! thanks!!

i thought they were Grant creations but wasn't sure?
it was just interesting to see them still used long after Grant left.
the character and organization weren't handled quite as well when Morrison was writing them of course. but still was interesting to see the nod.

[MikeandRaph87]

I will always prefer Batman teaming with my other two favorites, Ninja Turtles or Spider-Man,but the best crossover story is a 1940s' retro style tale with Captain America, Robin, Bucky, Joker, and the Red Skull in a twist and turns tale with devastating consequences.
http://majorspoilers.com/2011/10/23/retro-review-batmancaptain-america-1-december-1996/

[myconius]

I will always prefer Batman teaming with my other two favorites, Ninja Turtles or Spider-Man,but the best crossover story is a 1940s' retro style tale with Captain America, Robin, Bucky, Joker, and the Red Skull in a twist and turns tale with devastating consequences.
http://majorspoilers.com/2011/10/23/retro-review-batmancaptain-america-1-december-1996/

i used to have that Batman/Captain America cross-over. not sure if i still have it though?
i finally got my hands on the Batman/Spiderman cross-over at a convention for $10. it was more than i wanted to spend, but you just don't see them around all too often.
someone wanted $20 for it!!! that's just NUTS!!!

[MikeandRaph87]

i used to have that Batman/Captain America cross-over. not sure if i still have it though?
i finally got my hands on the Batman/Spiderman cross-over at a convention for $10. it was more than i wanted to spend, but you just don't see them around all too often.
someone wanted $20 for it!!! that's just NUTS!!!

I have both Spider-Man crossovers and the Captain America one also the three issues of DC vs Marvel. I paid no more than $6 for any of them. So there is no price issue, but agreed on rarity. While I had to do some searching for the two Spider-Man issues the Captain America was on the shelf in the back along with the Punisher crossover among the newest issues on the stands at my LCS. That was a little over a year ago. That being said,if you want those go to Ebay, but pay only single digit price with combined shipping factored in. I have the Hulk crossover and the Titans crossover with the X-Men. That was a great era of comics.Too bad the JLA/ Avengers crossover could not be worked out before COIE,but the era shifting in the four parter made up for it.

[myconius]

I have both Spider-Man crossovers and the Captain America one also the three issues of DC vs Marvel. I paid no more than $6 for any of them. So there is no price issue, but agreed on rarity. While I had to do some searching for the two Spider-Man issues the Captain America was on the shelf in the back along with the Punisher crossover among the newest issues on the stands at my LCS. That was a little over a year ago. That being said,if you want those go to Ebay, but pay only single digit price with combined shipping factored in. I have the Hulk crossover and the Titans crossover with the X-Men. That was a great era of comics.Too bad the JLA/ Avengers crossover could not be worked out before COIE,but the era shifting in the four parter made up for it.

this is the Spiderman/Batman i picked up.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/7/7b/Spider-Man_and_Batman_Vol_1_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080108015748

i've had it for half a year and haven't even read it yet. :lol:
i did find my Batman/Punisher with art by J.R. Jr. that was actually pretty entertaining.
the Batman/Darkness cross-over looked really cool, but the story really isn't all that memorable.

my favorite was the very first Batman Judge Dredd crossover!!!

THAT's by far my favorite!!!

http://d1k217qge1tz5p.cloudfront.net/img/Items/2000/1551.jpg

just look at that Bisley art!!!! :D

[MikeandRaph87]

That is the second one, it features Ra's al Ghul and The Knigpin. Of course there is an uneasy alliance the Bat and the Spider must poke holes in. The first one featured The Joker and Carnage receiving state of the art psych treatment which of course will not work.

I know absolutely nothing about Judge Dredd except Sylvester Stallone played him in a film. Not knowing a thing about a character hurts the appreciation of a crossover.

[myconius]

That is the second one, it features Ra's al Ghul and The Knigpin. Of course there is an uneasy alliance the Bat and the Spider must poke holes in. The first one featured The Joker and Carnage receiving state of the art psych treatment which of course will not work.

I know absolutely nothing about Judge Dredd except Sylvester Stallone played him in a film. Not knowing a thing about a character hurts the appreciation of a crossover.

that 'Judgement on Gotham' cross-over was actually my very first introduction to the Judge Dredd universe.
i knew absolutely nothing of it before.

a few years ago i started reading the Judge Dredd complete casefiles, but after about 6 or 7 volumes in, i had lost interest and sold off the collected books.