Why do you think the TMNT franchise had so few bombs?

[CyberCubed]

The only true bomb of the TMNT franchise was of course the Next Mutation series. A grand total of 1 season that crashed and burned the moment it started and most of its characters were rendered non-canon. If it weren't for the recent DVD releases the show would have all but faded away into obscurity as if it never happened.

The franchise has 3 successful cartoon series which went well above and beyond the number of episodes most cartoons last nowadays. In the days where it's rare to see a cartoon go beyond 65 episodes, to have two cartoons nearing almost 200 episodes is a feat. The Nick cartoon confirmed for at least 3 seasons and 78 episodes and probably more after that is in addition to this fact.

The Mirage comic run spanned nearly 30 years and the Archie TMNT run went on for over 100 issues with the specials combined. The IDW comic reboot has already gotten off to a good start and sales are strong enough to last years to come.

While the 2007 movie was a bit under the radar, it made back its production costs and pulled a profit for Imagi. Too bad the company went out of business after Astro Boy. The original movie trilogy also made millions despite the mixed reception of Movie III.

Why do you think the TMNT franchise has so many successful incarnations?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

There are TMNT versions for everyone. Dark Mirage comics for teens/older people, the more children and family-friendly 1987 show, and some universes between them.

[ToTheNines]

rendered non-canon.

You don't know what that means.

[ZariusTwo]

NM is canon to the Power Rangers universe, so it's valid somewhere

[Berserker]

TMNT franchise doesn't bomb because it's the exact same story told over and over again. If you want to make money, you don't screw around tremendously with something that was successful. Take a look at Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, and Superman. Same story... told again and again over dozens of iterations. People just don't get tired of things they like.

Why do you think everyone believes the Michael Bay movie will bomb? Because all indications are he's going to screw around with the material too much.

[snake]

Bays film isnt going to bomb, it'll make to much money, think of transformers, fans didn't think it was great, but it made money.

[Powder]

Rumor has it TNM didn't even really bomb that hard but rather costs were too high to keep it running based on it's basically average ratings.

[Candy Kappa]

If I remember correctly, TNM did well, but got canned in favor of Power Rangers due to cost issues.

There are TMNT versions for everyone. Dark Mirage comics for teens/older people, the more children and family-friendly 1987 show, and some universes between them.

Yes, Dark broody Mirage, just like the average Spider-Man or Avengers issue..,

[Roseangelo]

Rumor has it TNM didn't even really bomb that hard but rather costs were too high to keep it running based on it's basically average ratings.

This. TNM was actually very successful the year it was on. Peter Laird threw his hissy fit about it only after he bought out Kevin.

[ZariusTwo]

TMNT franchise doesn't bomb because it's the exact same story told over and over again.

Multiple versions of the TMNT franchise have not done this. At all.

[Vivi]

The concept is very strong, so it always had a hook.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Multiple versions of the TMNT franchise have not done this. At all.

I think it's meant that basically, it's the same concept. Four turtles fall into the Manhattan Island sewers, are mutated along with a rat, fight some gangs, befriend April, fight off Baxter Stockman and Shredderm encounter aliens.

[pannoni1]

The only real big "bomb" was the movie franchise with the third movie, since it contained a story that the average casual fan had no clue about (Time travel, ancient Japanese origins, along with poor costumes/unfunny plot). You could consider the "Gettin Down in your Town" follow-up to "Coming Out of Their Shells" as another bomb, though it wasn't promoted as much as COOTS. There was also the poor-selling and poor reception "Turtle Tunes" and "Turtle Xmas", which all were poor in numerous ways that tend to get a pass as they were released during MMPR's popularity and casuals saw anything TMNT as "so early '90s".

But part of the formula that keeps TMNT its longetivity is Eastman & Laird; at least one helped approve each comic, animated series, and some movies to ensure that it would be a success, and the criticism of last year's leaked Michael Bay script proves his testament. They are more than just the creators; they are the moral guardians to prevent a silly project from passing through. The core characters are also very easy to relate to and all possess real world abilities and lessons. Its also easy enough to understand how one universe relates to another via shout-outs and art styles.

[CyberCubed]

I don't really count those Turtle Christmas stuff or singing nonsense as "bombs" since they're such low-key stuff to begin with that nobody would remember them besides the very oldest fans.

[Xav]

The Dreamwave series bombed.

[Martin]

Actually, I think quite a few bombed...

Vol 2 got cancelled after 13 issues, Vol 3 lasted a tad longer but eventually got plugged, Vol 4 was put on indefinite hiatus by Laird 15 issues short of its conclusion (maybe less I'm not sure). The DW comics based on the 4kids toon also floundered and died prematurely.

I'm not really sure what is to be considered as 'bomb', but all this series had trouble and got plugged. And this is the stuff I know about, I never got to watch TNM or the second and third movie (yeah I'm a heretic). Again, I might be misinterpreting what constitutes 'bomb', but none of these series ended their run on their own terms.

[Jester]

Thank you, Martinf. You can't claim there were few bombs if you don't give an example of a "bomb" or try to write off those that many would consider bombs, like Turtle Tunes and Christmas.

[Martin]

Thank you, Martinf. You can't claim there were few bombs if you don't give an example of a "bomb" or try to write off those that many would consider bombs, like Turtle Tunes and Christmas.

I think it was the other day that we were discussing the fact that, after Vol 1 ended, things were pretty much downhill for the comics.

Here's the thread if you are interested: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=41363

[CyberCubed]

Vol 2 got cancelled after 13 issues, Vol 3 lasted a tad longer but eventually got plugged, Vol 4 was put on indefinite hiatus by Laird 15 issues short of its conclusion (maybe less I'm not sure). The DW comics based on the 4kids toon also floundered and died prematurely.

I wouldn't consider any of these bombs at all. Volume 2 ended quickly but it came directly after Volume 1 and they didn't have to restart the episode count at all. The Image series lasted 23 issues and Vol. 4 is PL's own personal pet project.

Not to mention these are all the same Mirage universe. The Mirage-verse lasted 30 years, does it matter if it took a hiatus every now and then?

Dreamwave did bomb but it was just a cartoon adaption so it doesn't matter.

[tmnt transformer]

Because this series is much better then most other things on tv...

[Xav]

I'm sure the new Michael Bay produced film with have plenty of bombs.

[snake]

The Dreamwave series bombed.

Dream wave? Whaaaaa, they had a turtle dreamwave comic series?

[Martin]

Dream wave? Whaaaaa, they had a turtle dreamwave comic series?

Yeah, it was 'based' on the 4kids toon. I say 'based' because the series wasn't so much about what happened with the turtles. It focused on secondary characters; it expanded the universe so to speak. That's the main reason it got cancelled: a turtle comic without turtles doesn't sell too well.

To be honest I liked the concept. Hell, it's ten times better than what they are doing now:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1613776136/

I mean, if you are going to make a 100% accuarate comic adaptation of the toon, at least have the decency to provide new art for it. I reckon that the CG looks great, but c'mon.

[snake]

Yeah, it was 'based' on the 4kids toon. I say 'based' because the series wasn't so much about what happened with the turtles. It focused on secondary characters; it expanded the universe so to speak. That's the main reason it got cancelled: a turtle comic without turtles doesn't sell too well.

To be honest I liked the concept. Hell, it's ten times better than what they are doing now:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1613776136/

I mean, if you are going to make a 100% accuarate comic adaptation of the toon, at least have the decency to provide new art for it. I reckon that the CG looks great, but c'mon.

Archie is a good toon adaption, it's amazing, also is the new toon adaption going to be an ongoing comic?

[Martin]

Archie is a good toon adaption, it's amazing, also is the new toon adaption going to be an ongoing comic?

Well it does say vol 1... so I guess it'll be? Might depend on how well it does.

About Archie's adaptation, I haven't had the chance to read them yet but I might pick them up at some point. I never managed to go through OT so it'll probably be a good way to catch up on stories that are now relevant to the IDW and nick series :tgrin:

[ToTheNines]

Y'all are ignorant.

Check comic-chron. The Dreamwave TMNT series actually sold modestly well. The reason it was abruptly canceled was because Dreamwave itself went under as a company. Hard to print comics when you're outta business.

[Venom]

Archie is a good toon adaption, it's amazing, also is the new toon adaption going to be an ongoing comic?

The book in Martinf's post isn't the new toon tie-in comic; it's a children's clip art book adapting the first couple episodes.

Dario Brizuela is doing art on the actual 4-part TMNT Animated Adventures tie-in comics, and if sales support the feasibility of an on-going, then yes, it will go to series.

[ToTheNines]

*New Animated Adventures.

[CyberCubed]

I'm not sure if IDW can actually juggle 3 on-going series at once, in addition to trades of Mirage, Archie and IDW material.

IDW has:

- Main series ongoing, up to issue 20
- Microseries ongoing, this takes breaks for other mini's (like Secret history of the Foot Clan), so we're always have some sort of mini-series going on alongside the main series
- Nick animated adventures starting soon

- Mirage Ultimate reprints
- Volume 1 guest issues reprints
- Tales reprints
- Archie TMNT reprints
- IDW trades of the current issues.


IDW has a lot on their plate and I hope they don't cannibalize their own sales with too many series at once.

[chrisdude]

Dario Brizuela is doing art on the actual 4-part TMNT Animated Adventures tie-in comics, and if sales support the feasibility of an on-going, then yes, it will go to series.Oh, snap. I want that. :teek:

EDIT:
Ha. I didn't even answer the question.
Maybe they didn't take a lot of risks. I mean, OT sure did. But after that, they haven't drastically changed the characters, the origins, the settings. And the things that do are those few bombs. Like how Next Mutation added a turtle and Fast Forward changed the setting. I guess you could say Turtles III was hurt by the change of setting?

[Xav]

Y'all are ignorant.

Check comic-chron. The Dreamwave TMNT series actually sold modestly well. The reason it was abruptly canceled was because Dreamwave itself went under as a company. Hard to print comics when you're outta business.The Dreamwave TMNT series ended a full year before Dreamwave went out of business. Plus the official site said it ended "due to less than stellar sales".

[Martin]

Y'all are ignorant.

Check comic-chron. The Dreamwave TMNT series actually sold modestly well. The reason it was abruptly canceled was because Dreamwave itself went under as a company. Hard to print comics when you're outta business.

Oh, thank you for enlightening us, you all knowing turtle master. We are not worthy... as*hole

The book in Martinf's post isn't the new toon tie-in comic; it's a children's clip art book adapting the first couple episodes.

Dario Brizuela is doing art on the actual 4-part TMNT Animated Adventures tie-in comics, and if sales support the feasibility of an on-going, then yes, it will go to series.

Cool, I didn't know that. That other book just popped up one day while I was surfing amazon and I jumped to conclusions. Glad that I was wrong. Guess that happens when you do not read descriptions!

I'm not sure if IDW can actually juggle 3 on-going series at once, in addition to trades of Mirage, Archie and IDW material.


Well, a lot of that stuff are reprints, but I do think they are overreaching a little bit. Guess we shouldn't complain, more turtles means more fun in my book. I just hope they don't mess it up.

[snake]

The book in Martinf's post isn't the new toon tie-in comic; it's a children's clip art book adapting the first couple episodes.

Dario Brizuela is doing art on the actual 4-part TMNT Animated Adventures tie-in comics, and if sales support the feasibility of an on-going, then yes, it will go to series.

Ahh, thanks for explaining.

[ToTheNines]

I wouldn't worry about IDW's turtle books. They've got their stuff together.

The only one that worries me is the stupid screen-shot adaptions hurting the sales of New Animated Adventures.

Oh, thank you for enlightening us, you all knowing turtle master. We are not worthy... as*hole

Sensitive.

[Martin]

Sensitive

We all make mistakes (not really sure if I truly screw up on that one though), but you don't have to be a d*ck about it.

[Candy Kappa]

He was't being a d*ck, you on the other hand...

[Krang]

Let's all try to get along, please. No more insults.

[Zulithe]

Disappointed that the animated adventures seems to be an adaptation of the 2-part season 1 opener (since it's titled "rise of the turtles")? I'll still buy it T__T Is this correct or are these two different products? I just want new stories in the Nick universe... Dario is the perfect artist for it, too. I'm sure most of us have seen that great print of the 4 turtles (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/8377748195/) that was shown at comic-con last year by him... it's spot-on