Karai in the Nicktoon TMNT: why not Pimiko?

[Andrew NDB]

Shredder's only had one true daughter in any universe, and that's not Karai (who was actually Shredder's boss and a standalone strong female character, unrelated to him by blood or anything else)... it's Pimiko.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110612175826/tmnt/images/4/41/Pimiko.jpg

[Powder]

1. So few people outside of the die-hard fans know about Vol. 3 let alone its exclusive characters.

2. They're doing something fans already 'know' about, given the connection the 2k3 series it has.

3. Look at her. This is a kids show.

I appreciate how little acknowledgement the comics usually get in the public eye and everything, but this show is being done for kids of a new generation, and the few pulls from past material we're gonna get will be the usual ones. Outside of that, it's really only fair to expect small nods to the more well known media of the past, i.e. the 87 cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

This is a very thinly-veiled bait-thread about getting Nick fans on the forums here to recognize the comics and consider them the source material. Oh Andrew. :)

Pimiko is obscure because she wasn't even in the regular Mirage run, but the Image one. Had Pimiko debuted in Mirage, we probably would have seen her used in at least the 4kids series.

[BabyTurtles]

cause...the name Karai sounds cooler?? :D
and I think more people know Karai....
(I didn't know about Pimiko)

[LH]

I think it's simply because...

Karai is not his true daughter. She's Miwa, Splinter's lost daughter. This seems to be a plausable theory given the information we have.

[BabyTurtles]

I think it's simply because...

Karai is not his true daughter. She's Miwa, Splinter's lost daughter. This seems to be a plausable theory given the information we have.

^ yea that makes sense XD

[Shark_Blade]

At least I could relate with 2K3 Karai.. I don't even know who Pimiko is.

[Ninjinister]

Pimiko would have to be more heavily adapted for this show than Bebop and Rocksteady would have had to fit into Mirage.

[Kendamu]

http://global3.memecdn.com/tmnt_o_925855.gif

[Andrew NDB]

The target audience is 10 year olds. It is irrelevant what and who in the dwindling pocket TMNT fandom remembers is what... they might as well choose the best fit from the existing source material for the part.

[Candy Kappa]

It's the 4Kids shows fault. Karai will never recover from the Shredder's daughter role, ever.

And I hate it. I really wish they went with Pimiko, as of now. Miwa might be Karai renamed by Shredder, which will reduce the potential for a new female character in the show heavily.

I don't think retooling Pimiko would be that bad, compared to tweaking R&B. She is heavily obscured and other characters have been greatly tweaked already

[BabyTurtles]

The target audience is 10 year olds. It is irrelevant what and who in the dwindling pocket TMNT fandom remembers is what... they might as well choose the best fit from the existing source material for the part.

well....it's just a name really...... they are both ninjas....and shedder's daughters...(kinda) (I don't really know Pimiko but they sound the same)

XD.....so I guess Karai made more sense cause more people knew her....and even if younger kids don't....why not appeal to some of the older fans for the heck of it :D??

and again I say....Karai's name is prettier to me XD

[Atren]

I was thinking what if Karai, Miwa and Pimiko were all different characters loyal to Shredder. Splinter has turtles and Shredder has daughters ;) To make it fairer Shredder might somehow brainwash April to make it 4 vs 4 :P

[Avatar Yuffie]

Blame 4Kids. I'd rather have Lotus Blossom and Karai be a non-entity altogether because Lotus started the female ninja Leo had hots on schtick first.

[Konchadunga]

Pimiko sounds like what Shredder would name his poodle.

[Chris]

Pimiko is one of the characters I really like from the Image run. I loved the idea of Shredder's daughter and the continued cycle of violence between the 2 families.

There's still a very slim chance she could make the cut in later seasons once the Turtles have killed Shredder, it's not like she was there from the start in the Mirage universe either.

As for Karai, if she betrays Shredder/makes peace with the Turtles (as has always been her role in one form or another and her good side has already been toyed with in Nick) then Pimiko could come after her too.

Of course I don't expect them to go that route, and if they did then she'd definitely be needing a more child friendly re-design.

[plastroncafe]

Who's to say they won't?
They could very well introduce her down the line.

Though...I hope they give her some pants.

[BabyTurtles]

Who's to say they won't?
They could very well introduce her down the line.

Though...I hope they give her some pants.

I was thinking that too XD what is she wearing?
don't know her...but she seems pretty kick butt :D

is she a good fighter?

[Chris]

I was thinking that too XD what is she wearing?
don't know her...but she seems pretty kick butt :D

is she a good fighter?

What's she wearing? Honest answer - not much :tlol:

And yeah, she's a pretty awesome fighter. Not Shredder's level IMO but able to hold her own against the guys.

[Powder]

I was thinking that too XD what is she wearing?
don't know her...but she seems pretty kick butt :D

is she a good fighter?

Yeah, definitely. She poses quite a threat to the turtles in the Image (vol. 3) comic books. Wields a sword & kicks serious butt.

[Galactus]

It's the 4Kids shows fault. Karai will never recover from the Shredder's daughter role, ever.

I felt this way for a long time and I know from his blog Laird didn't initialy like the idea of Karai being Shredder's daughter but after a while I began to feel differently.

I remember when I first read "City At War" and thinking Karai was one of the best characters ever and loved the potential of having the leader of the Foot being a quasi-friend to the turtles. Then...nothing.

Obviously she was intended to be Lady Shredder in the Image run but we never really saw that play out and while what we see of her in Vol. 4 seems intriguing we don't know were that's heading if indeed it ever heads anywhere.

It's not that the 4Kids version of the character pales in comparison to the Mirage version so much as she pales in comparison to what I imagined the Mirage versions potential to be.

At this point the 4Kids version is the definitive version of the character and there's certainly a lot of mileage to be had with a character that's conflicted by her personal sense of honour vs her sense of duty to the man who raised her. I can definitely see why Nickleodeon seems to be going down a similar route with the character.

The target audience is 10 year olds. It is irrelevant what and who in the dwindling pocket TMNT fandom remembers is what...they might as well choose the best fit from the existing source material for the part.

I don't think that is Pimiko.


Pimiko is Shredder's biological daughter but never knew him. She sought revenge against the turtles but seemed to soften her attitude towards the end of the Image series.

As opposed to...the Nick version who doesn't seem to be Saki's daughter and doesn't want to blindly do her fathers bidding. Just like the 4Kids version.

Plus y'know her costume might raise a few eyebrows on childrens show.

[Konchadunga]

I cannot agree that 4Kids Karai is a more interesting version. True, she stuck around longer and was more important, but that was because she kept retreading the same obnoxious Talia al Ghoul schtick until a certain YouTuber said she wanted to gouge Karai's eyes out with a spoon. The longer Ch'rel stayed a thing in that show and the more boundless his evil was shown as being, the more Karai's obsession over his spit-in-the-bucket kindness to her went from loyalty to selfishness.

If only they had cut Shredder's role short, and ended on showing him as having a decent side, then Karai could live on as a testament to that, but no; they just had to continue with their cliched bastardardization of the complex morality in the Mirage series, a bastardization that spread to other bits of the show and it never recovered.

In truth, I think Karai is a tricky character to adapt faithfully within the constraints of a children's cartoon, because her original reason to be in the plot, as a non-aggressive leader of the Foot, just isn't practical if they demand that "Turtles Vs Foot" thing to be the main plot of the series. Then again, though, it might be possible here to have the turtles beat Shredder eventually, then Karai takes over the Foot, and together, they take on the Kraang.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Pimiko is one of the characters I really like from the Image run. I loved the idea of Shredder's daughter and the continued cycle of violence between the 2 families.

There's still a very slim chance she could make the cut in later seasons once the Turtles have killed Shredder, it's not like she was there from the start in the Mirage universe either.

As for Karai, if she betrays Shredder/makes peace with the Turtles (as has always been her role in one form or another and her good side has already been toyed with in Nick) then Pimiko could come after her too.

Of course I don't expect them to go that route, and if they did then she'd definitely be needing a more child friendly re-design.

You actually liked the image comics?

[Candy Kappa]

You actually liked the image comics?

what's not to like about them?

[ObiWanFan4life]

what's not to like about them?
I personally don't like them becsuse image went overboard with trying to make it edgy and dark.

[ObiWanFan4life]

I'm aware that the previous volumes were dark in tone, but there is a limit.

[Candy Kappa]

it has a thicker 90's flare to it as most Image comics has, but it isn't really any darker or edgier

[sdp]

Because Pimiko isn't canon. and Laird doesn't care for her.

Though yeah this show would've been perfect to bring her in since it's obviously not being true to any one universe and just doing it's own thing.

[shuriken]

I'm aware that the previous volumes were dark in tone, but there is a limit.

It's not that bad really. I rolled my eyes at Splinter Bat Scarface Raph, Cyber Don and Handicap Leo but aside from that they were fine. Hell I liked the characterizations there better than how they are depicted in the earlier Mirage comics (Oh I went there). Each had a distinct personality and the story was face paced and had decent stories and action. I enjoyed it much more than Volume 4 either way.
Pimiko was a neat idea, her nonexistent outfit (damn you over the top 90's grittiness) was a small price to pay for her awesomeness throughout.

[Candy Kappa]

Because Pimiko isn't canon. and Laird doesn't care for her.

There is a lot of things Laird don't consider "canon", there is still little stuff in V4 that dismisses V3 completely.

But what does "canon" really mean when creating whole new universe. They certainly don't follow any specific canon.

Introducing Pimiko would be great for this series, which has as of now, two female characters that is staying characters.

Karai being Shredder's daughter and might be actually Miwa, Yoshi and Shen's daughter. That is potentially three characters mushed into one

[ToTheNines]

I've said this many times before. It kinda drives me crazy.

I like the Nick Karai... but she's not even Karai. I don't understand why they'd completely waste the potential of a faithful Karai adaption down the road when they could have made Miwa a completely original character (and she almost is), or just called her Pimiko.

[CyberCubed]

Nobody at Nick knows who Pimiko is, that's why.

[NinjaMan]

Nobody at Nick knows who Pimiko is, that's why.

And you know this because?

[CyberCubed]

And you know this because?

You really think the writers of the show read through the entire Image run? I don't even think they watched all episodes of the 4kids cartoon, let alone an obscure comic run from 1997.

[NinjaMan]

You really think the writers of the show read through the entire Image run? I don't even think they watched all episodes of the 4kids cartoon, let alone an obscure comic run from 1997.

You love making assumptions don't you.

[CyberCubed]

You love making assumptions don't you.

The people writing the show don't review everything from every past incarnation. From the sounds of things Ciro Neil doesn't know much about the 4kids cartoon, he probably never watched most of it.

[NinjaMan]

The people writing the show don't review everything from every past incarnation. From the sounds of things Ciro Neil doesn't know much about the 4kids cartoon, he probably never watched most of it.

Unless they come out and outright say that you are making a wild assumption as you usually do.

[CyberCubed]

Unless they come out and outright say that you are making a wild assumption as you usually do.

Yes, because I'm sure the writers have enough spare time after meeting deadlines to get 26 episodes out in a year that they can also watch nearly 400 episodes of both previous cartoons and read the somewhere around 400-500 TMNT comics that have been written between Mirage/Image/Archie combined.

Its obvious they don't know everything, even if they may read up on the series as time progresses.

[Coola Yagami]

Yes, because I'm sure the writers have enough spare time after meeting deadlines to get 26 episodes out in a year that they can also watch nearly 400 episodes of both previous cartoons and read the somewhere around 400-500 TMNT comics that have been written between Mirage/Image/Archie combined.

Its obvious they don't know everything, even if they may read up on the series as time progresses.

I agree.... expecting them to know Piminko is Shredder's daughter is like expecting them to know that the Turtles crossed over with Flaming Carrot.

[NinjaMan]

Yes, because I'm sure the writers have enough spare time after meeting deadlines to get 26 episodes out in a year that they can also watch nearly 400 episodes of both previous cartoons and read the somewhere around 400-500 TMNT comics that have been written between Mirage/Image/Archie combined.

Its obvious they don't know everything, even if they may read up on the series as time progresses.

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll: I don't even know why I bother to respond your bizarre posts. Think it's time to use that ignore feature.

[snake]

I agree.... expecting them to know Piminko is Shredder's daughter is like expecting them to know that the Turtles crossed over with Flaming Carrot.

Isn't flaming carrot supposed to appear in this show?

[NinjaMan]

I agree.... expecting them to know Piminko is Shredder's daughter is like expecting them to know that the Turtles crossed over with Flaming Carrot.

I see Cybercube has infected you. And Flaming Carrot was actually mentioned a while back by the crew.

[NinjaMan]

Isn't flaming carrot supposed to appear in this show?

Yup he is.

[Coola Yagami]

Whoa.... then these guys have done some serious homework. They might not have read every issue and watched every episode... but these guys did their homework. I wonder if we'll see the Cowboys of Moo Mesa as well.

[CyberCubed]

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll: I don't even know why I bother to respond your bizarre posts. Think it's time to use that ignore feature.

If you're somehow delusional enough to believe the writers have watched all 400+ episodes of both cartoons and read 500+ TMNT comics from Mirage/Image/Archie before writing the Nick show, you're out of your mind.

They've likely dabbled a little bit in every incarnation, but probably haven't gone through ALL of it. There's a difference between the writers and what the execs at Viacom go through.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Why Karai? Because while neither of the two is well known to the target audience, or the fandom at large, Karai is the more well known as Shredder's daughter of the two, and has had the most exposure in other media. (TMNT tournament Fighters, The 4kids cartoon, the Imagi movie) while Pimiko's exposure amounts to the image run, that one of the co-creators himself disavowed.

Often times, source material is rendered meaningless/overlooked in an adaptation, over the take people are most farmiliar with/is most popular. Look at all the pressure to get the Batman TAS voice actors back every time they do an animated movie/video game/whatever, and the pressure to see the DCAU continued, instead of a new adaptation of the source material (To say nothing of how said adaptation have reached back, and altered said source material.)