Is 2007 canon?

[shihe]

I was wondering this lately. It feels to me like 2007 movie is like a canon-crossroad.

Can't help but think that this movie can be a direct followup to the 4kids cartoon (which makes a lot of sense)
but at the same time... it can work as continuation to the live action movies.



................................................<<<MOVIE TIMELINE>>>
.............................................Teena ge Mutant Ninja Turtles
.................................................. ..............V
............................................TMNT2: Secret of the Ooze
.................................................. ..............V
...........................................Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III
.................................................. ..............V
TMNT > Fast Forward > Back to the Sewers >2007 > Turtles Forever
<<<TV Timeline>>>


Is it canon? To one or both?

[CyberCubed]

I actually like thinking of it being in continuity with the Nick cartoon now. Aside from the minor discrepancy of Karai meeting the Turtles for the first time, it works well in the Nick universe given the designs and the older age of the main cast.

April in the 4th movie looks like an adult version of Nick's April and Leonardo's voice is almost identical in both. Raph, Mike and Don also seem like older versions of their Nick counterparts.

[shihe]

I could've sworn that, in the movie, Leonardo shouted "Karai!" when she came into the scene with the Turtles for the first time.

And I was like "Ka...who?"

But I really have to watch it again. And you're right, after the Nick show makes a lot of sense (so far)

[Luigiperps]

When I said that I thought it was after the nick show, no one believed me. :tgrumble:

[CyberCubed]

The monsters in the 4th movie don't look all that different than the type of mutants the Turtles face either.

Since the Turtles are 18 or so in the movie and April is 20 something it works out well.

[Candy Kappa]

with the movie tie-in comics the 2007 movie clearly isn't a part of the 4Kids series canon, nor the Nick show.

Since in the Leonardo comic we do see Leo meet the ancient one for the first time and it is completely different from the 4kids series and not to mention Leonardo didn't come home from his journey until the events of the movie. And in the Raph issue they fight Triceratons.

it has its own canon spinning loosely from a very generic stand point of the TMNT lore that was back in 2007, it have some few live action movie easter eggs. The movie can easily be the latest installment of the live action canon instead of Next Mutation or just be it's own being.

[CyberCubed]

with the movie tie-in comics the 2007 movie clearly isn't a part of the 4Kids series canon, nor the Nick show.

Since in the Leonardo comic we do see Leo meet the ancient one for the first time and it is completely from the 4kids series and not to mention Leonardo didn't come home from his journey until the events of the movie. And in the Raph issue they fight Triceratons.

it has its own canon spinning loosely from a very generic stand point of the TMNT lore that was back in 2007, it have some few live action movie easter eggs. The movie can easily be the latest installment of the live action canon instead of Next Mutation or just be it's own being.

Not sure why the comics decanonize anything, the Turtles will probably face Triceratons later on in the Nick show.

[Candy Kappa]

We're talking about a movie that came out in 2007, it have little to do with the Nick show, Leo shows no mention of his favorite TV show, no references at all in the background shots, there is no Spike, Raphael's pet turtle, the Dojo is completely different, no huge tree. April is not an Kunoichi, no mention of it, only that she knows a little martial arts. Casey seems to be the same age as April, isn't he supposed to be older when he debuted in the Nick show? NO mention of former villains like the Kraang, or any of the mutant monsters, wheres Dogpound and Fishface, no reference of Dimension X when the portals open. Wheres the Shellraiser, that thing would be useful in the last fight in the movie, or why can't Don make a new one if it was broken. They just have a van.

The weapons, Leo got two katana i 2007 movie, or Mikey and Don's weapons don't change when they clearly would have needed some sharper weaponry.

there isn't much to connect the 2007 movie to the Nick continuity

[CyberCubed]

The movie takes place years after the events in the show. They're only 15 in the cartoon but around 18-19 in the movie. Now obviously when the movie was written Kevin Munroe had no idea there would be a CG cartoon coming a few years later.

However it fits in quite well. All the events you mention take place in Season 1 and will probably change or be done away with in time. Look at 4kids Season 1 and how different all those characters and situations became at the end of the show, it'll be the same deal for Nick.

[Candy Kappa]

Now obviously when the movie was written Kevin Munroe had no idea there would be a CG cartoon coming a few years later.

Exactly.

If it is to be connected to an existing canon, the best would the the movie-verse canon. The movie turtles are also around 15, movie 1 and 2 have little time line between them, move three is ambiguously enough. The turtles have taken down Shredder and demolished the Foot. Movie three also dabbles into magic and time travel, so space travel and fighting aliens in the movie comics aren't far fetched, or the spiritual things that Leo experiences in his own movie tie-in comic

In the 2007 movie Karai are trying to rebuild the Foot, hence they have been reduced to mere hired goons, the easter egg items are an indication enough that similar events like in the three live action movies have occurred, as well as other things like Mousers.

So either it have connotations to the Movie-verse or is it's own universe with it's own canon similar to the movies but with flavors from the 4Kids series.

[Coola Yagami]

So obviously not canon it hurts to even waste the time to write it. It doesn't even fit with the movies. Watch the 3 movies and tell me that goofball version of Leo is capable of traveling and living on his own in South America. Tell me Judith Hoag can somehow train to be a ninja. Then the tie-in comics try to tie into the 2K3 and Mirage continuities... just does not fit.

[chrisdude]

I really don't think it's a sequel to anything. It's just TMNT - later.

[Toby Barrett]

Absolutely not.
Leo and Donnie became utter dicks, Mikey became an idiot.
Splinter went from being a dying old rat to make a miraculous recovery.
That's not the same April or Casey who appeared in the original trilogy, there's nothing you can say to make me believe otherwise.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

As one who hasn't tried to re-visit the original cartoon, never watched an episode of the 2003 cartoon or the current Nick show, or who has never sat through all of the 3rd live action film but has seen the 1st and 2nd multiple times across VHS and DVD:

I always felt the "TMNT" CG movie was a loose continuity of the original films.
We didn't get reestablished to anything in particular. It wasn't a reboot. By "loose" I just mean the events have been set in motion and this movie takes place at another big moment in the Turtles lives.
I mean, it's odd to continue the story in a new medium (live action to computer animation) but there are basics set in.
The trophy room shows few odds and ends from the previous movies. Shredder is missing and thought to be defeated until Karai mentions facing familiar faces from the past, which we (and the Turtles) all assume to be Shredder.

I also never followed the comics or the lead-in titles so I have never been sure why April is seemingly as skilled with a sword as Leo or why Leo was even in South America.
I get he went there for training or whatever but I never saw a story arc anywhere leading him there to tie it in.
I just always assumed it to be some kind of narrative to be reintroduced to the Turtles and the reignite the Leo/Raph rivalry and have it make sense to an audience who may not have been following all the stories.

[Candy Kappa]

[QUOTE=Coola Yagami;1082340]Watch the 3 movies and tell me that goofball version of Leo is capable of traveling and living on his own in South America. /QUOTE]

Better development then Next Mutation :P

I think the turtles in TMNT, if not a loose continuation of the live action movies, they have at least encountered similar to almost the same events as the movies have and had more adventures between those events.

[sdp]

After watching a few episodes of the Nick show I considered it canon with the 2007 movie.

When 2007 came out I wanted it to be in continuity with the movies and all fans on this forum begged for it and the director threw us a bone by adding the ending shot but that's just an easter egg but it means nothing since most of those events are not movie exclusive and happened in more than one TMNT incarnation. The comic also invalidates it being in continuity with the older movies. The Next Mutation actually has more links to the movie universe and a few of us definitely consider in continuity with the movies.

Anyway, I can see how you think it's related to 2k3, I think it was intended to be design like it with the turtles having similar personalities so the kids who liked 2k3 wouldn't feel lost. The movie popularized Fast Forward which is why the re-design for BTTS was made to look like the 2k3 movie but besides those it's not in continuity with 2k3.

Now I think the movie is in continuity with the Nick show, now of course this is only fanon as the movie is not owned by Nick however it's not just because they're both CG but the personalities of the turtles fit perfectly as more mature versions of what they have in the Nick show, the tone of the show is similar, etc. If we go by Candy Kappa's nitpicking then most shows in existence aren't canon with themselves. Of course the longer the Nick show goes on the more likely contradictions are to arise but that's besides the point, so far nothing really big is contradicting and the fact that the movie takes place many years after the defeat of Shredder and whatnot the turtles being older it only helps it fit better.

[CyberCubed]

Can't think of why people think it would contradict the Nick show ignoring Karai being with the Foot:

- April is learning how to fight in the Nick cartoon, the April in the movie is around 20 years old or whatever...so she's obviously much more skilled

- Casey is coming in Season 2, he and April will probably be love interests in the cartoon

- Leonardo's voice sounds almost identical to the Nick Leonardo. It actually shocked me when I rewatched the movie after the Nick show started, I actually thought it was Jason Biggs when it was really James Arnold Taylor.

- Raph, Don and Mike also feel like older versions of their Nick counterparts.

- Splinter got older and shorter...haha.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

We're also considering that Nick are building an entire prequel series, in a sense, to a movie that came out 6-7 years before.

I would hope Nick would just make there own thing and not force it to follow a set of rails to lead into a movie many of the new fans watching the show may not have seen.
Shows like that kinda irk me, like Bates Motel and the upcoming Hannibal shows which are designed to be ongoing series that will somehow, eventually, lead into the legendary movies they are conceived from.

[CyberCubed]

It obviously isn't intended to fit, but its nice to think about.

[Coola Yagami]

It obviously isn't intended to fit, but its nice to think about.

Thank you.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

So... are we also going to ignore Karai's heavy Asian accent in the CGI movie and her complete lack of any Asian accent in the Nick toon?

[shihe]

As much as I´d like the Nick show to connect to TMNT2007, I don´t think that´s entirely possible..

I mean the Turtles go from having 3 toes to 2, for example. Donnie not having the gap in his tooth. Mikey not naming all 12-ish ancient monsters including Winters, Raph still having anger management issues, among other details.

I see it a lot closer to 2k3 than Nick, but it IS fun to think about the connection between Nick and 2k7.


When I watched the movie right after watching all 3 other movies, TMNT made no sense.
However... after watching 4Kids cartoon. A LOT of things made sense now.

To point a few:

-Leonardo training alone was hinted in Fast Forward. And in the 2K7 Prequel comic, he does in fact return to train with the Ninja council if I recall correctly.
-Raphael being so aggro towards Leo, and them having this whole leader rivalry going on (first 2k3 episode, people).
-April fighting, of course.
-Casey's Back to the Sewers design.
-Karai meeting the Turtles again.
-Shredderless foot clan, and them being reduced to practically nothing.
-Karai hinting at Shredder´s revival at the end (and then comes Turtles Forever where they do reanimate him)

It´s a lot more to start from, if you ask me.

[Cipher]

The 2007 movie is a Shroedinger's film. It's canon to nothing and everything until the observer passes judgement on it.

So... are we also going to ignore Karai's heavy Asian accent in the CGI movie and her complete lack of any Asian accent in the Nick toon?
You mean her decidedly non-Japanese accent? Because that in itself is a problem.

[CyberCubed]

Design difference can be hand waved away. In the actual cartoons there are design changes and the characters look different from one season to the next.

In the OT, the Seasons 8-10 Turtles look different from Seasons 1-7. Same with 4kids and Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer.

April looks very different in BTTS and Turtles Forever compared to her old 4kids self, are we to think its a different April? Of course not.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

You mean her decidedly non-Japanese accent? Because that in itself is a problem.

Perhaps, but that isn't the point. The Nick toon can't be canon with the CGI movie, because it would mean that somehow Karai becomes more foreign as she gets older. That doesn't make any sense for her to speak perfect English as a teenager, then later on in life she as an Asian accent (whether the accent sounds Japanese or not is irrelevant to my point).

[Sleepingseeker]

Perhaps, but that isn't the point. The Nick toon can't be canon with the CGI movie, because it would mean that somehow Karai becomes more foreign as she gets older. That doesn't make any sense for her to speak perfect English as a teenager, then later on in life she as an Asian accent (whether the accent sounds Japanese or not is irrelevant to my point).

What if she spent some years abroad? She could've developed an accent. :)

[shihe]

What if she spent some years abroad? She could've developed an accent. :)


Or, like a lot of rebel (foreign) teens, purposedly try not to sound like their parents. Until they finally embrace their roots.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

Seriously? You guys, accents aren't a willing thing, unless you're trying to do an impersonation. The accent a person naturally talks in is just that, the way a person naturally talks. You can "embrace your roots" all you want, but if you naturally speak perfect English, then speaking with an Asian accent is just going to mean you're faking it... which, honestly, I would find to be more offensive than flattering.

And studying abroad might mean that they'd develop a better accent when speaking the language that's spoken in that country. But it'd have no effect on the way they speak English.

[Candy Kappa]

I see it a lot closer to 2k3 than Nick, but it IS fun to think about the connection between Nick and 2k7.


When I watched the movie right after watching all 3 other movies, TMNT made no sense.
However... after watching 4Kids cartoon. A LOT of things made sense now.

To point a few:

-Leonardo training alone was hinted in Fast Forward. And in the 2K7 Prequel comic, he does in fact return to train with the Ninja council if I recall correctly.
-Raphael being so aggro towards Leo, and them having this whole leader rivalry going on (first 2k3 episode, people).
-April fighting, of course.
-Casey's Back to the Sewers design.
-Karai meeting the Turtles again.
-Shredderless foot clan, and them being reduced to practically nothing.
-Karai hinting at Shredder´s revival at the end (and then comes Turtles Forever where they do reanimate him)

It´s a lot more to start from, if you ask me.

That's because the 2k3 was at the time status quo, a lot of the things that was going on in the 4Kids show was adapted into the 2007 movie. Leonardo did go on a journey alone in season 4, where he trained with the ancient One, both the movie comic version and the 4Kids version is drastically different from each other.

The 4Kids version is also a journey for redemption as Leonardo have to deal with his anger problems after striking a blow at Splinter, while the movie journey, Leo is tasked on the journey to become a greater leader.

besides back to the Sewers, 4Kids was made before the 2007 movie, it's when BttS was created the show borrowed elements from the movie, like the turtles eye color, and the various new designs characters was sporting.

[ryukenden]

There was Splinter's collection of relics where Raph added his Nightwatcher helmet. And of course Mikey's Cowabunga Carl head. The scepter from Movie 3 was among the relics.

[sgtfbomb]

I've always found canon to be a tad bit less relevant than what fans typically make it out to be. Even less so with TMNT, where there are so many incarnations.

Here's the way I see it. As far as films go, 1-3 are their own thing. TMNT '07 is it's own thing, with loose, vague hints at previous incarnations, including those films. Those hints are more of a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" than a direct connection.

[TMNachoT]

Who´s to say if it´s canon or not? Peter? Kevin? Munroe? Nickelodeon? I remember munroe saying it was canon but then he said the film could be seen as canon and non canon at the same time. O.O

[sdp]

Yes Munroe basically said it could be a continuation to whatever you wanted it to be that's why it was vague but they would build upon the movie for the sequels which obviously never happened.

[CyberCubed]

It obviously had nothing to do with the original cartoon universe, it was way too different. No Technodrome, Shredder defeated, no Krang or robot Foot soldiers...Turtles personalities were not like the OT at all.

It has similarities to the movie universe, 4kids cartoon, and now oddly the Nick cartoon.

[jestermon]

Any official product is cannon is it not, regardless of if it's separate or tied into any other continuity.

[CyberCubed]

Any official product is cannon is it not, regardless of if it's separate or tied into any other continuity.

We know its canon to itself, they just mean canon to any other continuity.

[Bossodio]

from my understanding. It is a continuation of the Movies. however that never really made sense to me.

[Andrew NDB]

I could've sworn that, in the movie, Leonardo shouted "Karai!" when she came into the scene with the Turtles for the first time.

Nope, you heard what you wanted to hear. She introduced herself to the Turtles for the first time in the movie. According to Munroe himself it's intended as a sequel to the original TMNT trilogy with a few things thrown in there to make 4Kids fans not feel too much like they're not at home. Period.

The film canon has two roads you can follow:

1) TMNT I => TMNT II => TMNT III => NT:TNM

2) TMNT I => TMNT II => TMNT III => TMNT (2007)

[Leofan26]

That'd mean Karai would have be an live action film ;)

I think it'd be pretty cool if this was the case, Ralph/Leo's rivalry would be intense than it was in the previous live action films. Would add Karai in the picture and maybe once, just once Leo would actually be the main character in a live action film :D

The past it was Ralph/Donnie some what Mikey. I'd like the next one to be about Leo since the others already got there time :(

[DonatelloNinja82]

I always took it as its own TMNT continuity, in its own turtles universe cannon.

[ironman29758]

Nope, you heard what you wanted to hear. She introduced herself to the Turtles for the first time in the movie. According to Munroe himself it's intended as a sequel to the original TMNT trilogy with a few things thrown in there to make 4Kids fans not feel too much like they're not at home. Period.

The film canon has two roads you can follow:

1) TMNT I => TMNT II => TMNT III => NT:TNM

2) TMNT I => TMNT II => TMNT III => TMNT (2007)

This is how I took it(but I rather have the 2007 movie as the official continuation if the movies and pretend TNM is it's own universe)