I think the turtle should had love interest

[MikLeo]

I am just saying. No harm done to see one of the turtle get in a romantic relationship with a mutant girl, alien or even human(yeah, you hear me, human/turtle...I don't really see what is wrong with it). People accept Robin and starfire as lovers/couple why not turtle/human. Anyway, its what the 2003 show was missing. Its one of the reason the turtle archie favorite book, it make the turtle more real in someway.

Even today I am still upset over the Leo/Karai thing, they build their relationship and even admitted that Leo/Karai had feeling for each other...than the writer do the turtles don't get romantic involved with human. And instead of giving me closure over the Leo/Karai, I get Dr. Chaplin and Karai holding hand..( which never confirm if they were couple and I don't think they were.) Thank for nothing.

[ObiWanFan4life]

They dropped the romance aspect because it serves no purpose in the show aside from being played for laughs. People don't watch TMNT for Romantic tension, they watch it for thrills and laughs. Romance detracts from what TMNT is all about. It would be cool to have Dr. Chaplin appear in the show, but it would be an absolute waste of his character just to make him a potential love interest.

[Bossa Nova]

Exactly what the poster above me just said, I don't watch TMNT for the romance. I can get romance pretty much anywhere. There is SO much to the turtles and all the supporting characters that I like watching and exploring them as something outside of being someone's romantic partner.

I actually liked the way 4Kids handled the subject of romance because the only relationship that was really official was April/Casey, but even then I felt like it wasn't crammed down my throat 24/7 and left room to see them as individuals outside their relationship. On top of that, they sprinkled in enough hints and tension between characters (like Leo/Karai) that gave viewers the option of pairing them together if they wanted, but didn't let that aspect overtake the series so that the action and other storylines were always at the forefront of the series. That's why I personally feel Nick really dropped the ball with the way Karai and April were introduced in their series, since I was instantly only able to see them as 'girl crush #1' and 'girl crush #2' instead of the complex, interesting characters they actually are, and it bothers me that the turtles seemed to initially view them that way as well.

[Powder]

If you wanna ship go buy cruise tickets.

badumtish

No, really though, go away.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I don't come to TMNT for the romance, but I don't really see why it's a bad thing if it's included either. It...is kind of a thing in life, and all that, you know.

Then again, I've been loving the Donnie/April stuff in the new show, so what do I know.:P

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I don't think the intended target audience for the TMNT is/was interested in seeing romance.

[CyberCubed]

Even the actual romance in the show between Casey and April is fairly boring.

[MikLeo]

Casey and April wasn't romance, the writer just put them together there was nothing else to do with them

[Gwydion]

Eh, I've never been a fan of romance in the TMNT franchise. I don't mind hints or little bits and pieces, but I'm not really interested in full blown romantic relationships. I get enough of that (and sometimes too much) in other shows. I can't fault it if it's done well, but to me TMNT is about family/brotherly love, not romantic love.

But hey, that's just my opinion. Besides, that's what fanfiction/fanart is for. ^_~

[Candy Kappa]

Casey and April wasn't romance, the writer just put them together there was nothing else to do with them

April and Casey have quite the history between them. Getting together, splitting apart and by chance meet again, raise a child together.

no romance?

In the 4Kids show they do get married and clearly they care for each other even though we the audience don't see Casey or April go lengths to woe their loved one. it wasn't the focal point of the show.


I think there is a fair amount of romance/relationships with the turtles in the various incarnations. There is no need for all four turtles to find their true one. we're talking about four mutants living in hiding from society. Four brothers against the world, protect the family, protect the clan.

Leo and Karai in 4Kids would never had worked as couple, when they barely works as allies. I didn't get a romance vibe from the two, just a deep bond of respect. That doesn't mean "OMG Kawaii kiss you two." And I preferred it that way.

If anything I'd like to see how Leonardo and Radical's relationship grew, Swan Song is way too short of a comic to deal with that(not to mention a not very good comic either). We have two seemingly random characters getting together after not seeing each other for years. She basically was just fridge stuffer to further Leo's story on how he ended up vowing never to kill again.

[Cipher]

While it isn't something I clamor for in every series, it is something I wish would be explored more often -- preferably in a non-child-oriented version that can treat it with the proper gravitas and bizarreness.

Like Candy Kappa, I think the few Turtle-superhero/alien/mutant/whatever relationships that have popped up in the comics over the years have always been interesting, if not very well executed.

[ZariusTwo]

I have a lot of fun with certain human/Turtle pairings in my fanfics, but I don't mind it being a minor factor in the official canons. It's at it's heart, an action/adventure franchise, with a lot more complex developments to concern itself with that leads to a more enriching viewing expeirance.

I think the one-sided romance elements of the Nick show tries to tick a few boxes for female fans, but the women in the show are protected somewhat by not entirely reciprecating that affection and instead keeping a cool head around the characters, which itself conveys a strong message to female audiences that you don't need to fall head over heels with someone to be close to them.

I've never found Casey and April particulary interesting...I think April could either do much better for herself or, failing that, shouldnt really concern herself with romance at all...after all, 80s April stayed consistently single throughout the run of the classic show (though she referenced dating some people and even went out with Mutagen Man) and she wasn't hung up over those aspects due to her being a likeable and inspiring career woman.

[Shark_Blade]

I don't mind a little bit of romance. I like to see it actually goes somewhere. :)

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Romance did exist in the Mirage series. However in the 1987, the target audience (young children) don't typically have romance on their minds. I remember the "boy germs/girl germs" wars when I was in second grade.

[Nameless]

What about the Episode "Green With Jealousy" from the OT. Plenty of Romance in that one ;).

[BubblyShell22]

I don't mind romance in small doses if it's done well, and I think the Nick show has done a good job with it because April isn't returning Don's feelings for her, and Karai is just messing with Leo's head, which is funny to see. I also love to read romance in fan fics as long as it's well-written and explored right. I don't see anything wrong with a little bit of it as long as it doesn't become the complete focus of the show/fic.

[Leofan26]

Leo kind of already does, in the new nick show Donnie has April sort of. The others are left out though :P

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

What about the Episode "Green With Jealousy" from the OT. Plenty of Romance in that one ;).

But the romantic aspect was played for laughs, and Irma, who desires romance with whomever she can find, is depicted as immature and stupid.

There's also a sort-of-romance between Leonardo and Lotus Blossom, but it is never developed beyond a hint.

[BabyTurtles]

with the way they are treating April as Donnie's crush.....

I'm kinda hoping they don't have anymore love interests...

or if they do, it's just a character for that episode.

[kelligrafie]

with the way they are treating April as Donnie's crush.....

See that makes sense to me because they're teenagers. Hormones are likely to be raging from their human side. I can't see that going any further than a crush because Donnie would not have the confidence for that.

Karai/Leo will probably not manifest into anything serious. They won't be able to choose between each other and their families. They might get together temporarily but be forced to split. It would be quite a destructive relationship. Personally I think it just serves to show a different side to Leo instead of the Captain Ryan part of him.

Girls are probably the last thing on Mikey's mind right now.

Maybe the fact Raph isn't getting any girl action might explain the 24/7 aggression.

[BubblyShell22]

Didn't Mikey have a crush on Oyuki in the Archie comics?

[kelligrafie]

Didn't Mikey have a crush on Oyuki in the Archie comics?

This raises quite a good point.

What incarnation of the Turtles are we all discussing? Because their levels of maturity are different from comic to TV series to film to other TV series.

[Powder]

What incarnation of the Turtles are we all discussing? Because their levels of maturity are different from comic to TV series to film to other TV series.

This section of the board 'general discussion' typically refers to the OT, but other times, the TMNT as a whole, if that's any help.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, in the OT, Mikey had two- Kala the Neutrino, and Buffy Shellhammer the human heiress. Leo had Lotus (sort of). Raph briefly fell for Irma in that Green With Jealousy episode- but then so did Leo and Mikey. I DO wish they would have had some kind of romantic prospects in the 2K3 show, but only if it was done right and just sprinkled in sparingly- like the hints of Leo/Karai were at times. There was no DEFINITIVE pairing there, but they left it open for that until she ended up with Chaplin. I could possibly see Mikey with one of the Justice Force heroines, though- maybe Chrysalis? Ananda maybe? That could be interesting.

And then there's Venus.... I know, no one likes to mention her, but it's out there, it exists- it's gotta at least be said. Not fond of that one, but at least it would have made sense. Then again, I will point out the obvious- ONE girl, FOUR guys! That would suck on SOO many levels. For the one who "got the girl", his brothers would always resent him for it, and for the others, they'd be left with nothing to hope for. And for HER, it would be a double-edged blade type of choice. How do you pick just ONE and hang the rest out to dry? That would just be horrible.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, Raph had Joi in The Lost Season, and I think he kind of had a thing for her.

[Coola Yagami]

And then there's Venus.... I know, no one likes to mention her, but it's out there, it exists- it's gotta at least be said. Not fond of that one, but at least it would have made sense. Then again, I will point out the obvious- ONE girl, FOUR guys! That would suck on SOO many levels. For the one who "got the girl", his brothers would always resent him for it, and for the others, they'd be left with nothing to hope for. And for HER, it would be a double-edged blade type of choice. How do you pick just ONE and hang the rest out to dry? That would just be horrible.

Take turns? Leo can have her Mondays, Mike can have her Tuesdays, Raph can have her Wednesdays, Don can have her Thursdays, they can draw straws for Friday, and then let the poor girl rest on the weekeneds.

[CowabungaMikey]

I actually LOVE that they didn't have love interests. I like the idea of Donatello liking April, but i don't want the Turtles to have relationships.

[DonatelloNinja82]

I actually LOVE that they didn't have love interests. I like the idea of Donatello liking April, but i don't want the Turtles to have relationships.

I think the way they did Donnie liking April was well done in 2k3. It was very subtle, but there enough that it was noticeable. In 2k12...with April being closer to their age, it's cute.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Take turns? Leo can have her Mondays, Mike can have her Tuesdays, Raph can have her Wednesdays, Don can have her Thursdays, they can draw straws for Friday, and then let the poor girl rest on the weekeneds.

LOL!! Or they could have a fivesome on Fridays? Uh, maybe NOT..... (Sorry for "going there", but my mind tends to live in the sewer. It's no wonder I'm a fan- I'm right down there WITH them!!)

[DonatelloNinja82]

LOL!! Or they could have a fivesome on Fridays? Uh, maybe NOT..... (Sorry for "going there", but my mind tends to live in the sewer. It's no wonder I'm a fan- I'm right down there WITH them!!)

I just prefer to NOT think about Venus :o

[Vivi]

I'm split about it. It better when it's subtle/well executed, or not at all. Leo and Karai seriously need to get a room in Prodigal Son.

[Stingray69]

What about mona lisa? She and raph kind of had a thing there.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, they did, but sadly she was only in one episode.

[DonatelloNinja82]

What about mona lisa? She and raph kind of had a thing there.

I agree, I even remember the cover of the VHS release of that ep...he was holding a boquet of flowers. And he told her she was "kind of cute". But she was only in one ep sadly...like Bubbly said.

[pannoni1]

With various issues such as Turtlecest, I never take romance between either a mutant and a non-mutant or an animal-based and a human-based mutant seriously. Venus seemed like an orphan and just seemed like LDMR's type. Sadly, most female characters in the franchise don't stick around for very long, meaning that any chance of a relationship is fleeting. That said, the franchise has had a wide range of romantic relationships ranging from well done (April & Casey in Mirage, 4kids), sweet (Raphael/Mona Lisa, Michelangelo/Kala), attrocious (April/Rocksteady), to "What were they thinking"? (Turtles/Venus).

[DonatelloNinja82]

With various issues such as Turtlecest, I never take romance between either a mutant and a non-mutant or an animal-based and a human-based mutant seriously. Venus seemed like an orphan and just seemed like LDMR's type. Sadly, most female characters in the franchise don't stick around for very long, meaning that any chance of a relationship is fleeting. That said, the franchise has had a wide range of romantic relationships ranging from well done (April & Casey in Mirage, 4kids), sweet (Raphael/Mona Lisa, Michelangelo/Kala), attrocious (April/Rocksteady), to "What were they thinking"? (Turtles/Venus).

Yah, Turtlecest is gross IMO. I think the romances from OT were the cute ones.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I think they should just revive past romances from previous continuities;

Raph/Mona Lisa (or Ninjara/Raph, take your preference)
Kala/Mikey
Leo/Lotus Blossom

add the Current Donnie romace from the Nick cartoon, and you're covered on the romance front! :D

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But they HAVE Leo/Lotus in the new one- she seems to have changed her name to Karai, LOL! JK. The paralells between the two are really hard to miss, though. Lotus pretty much WAS Karai before there even was a Karai. I like that the've kept that aspect of Leo liking the "bad girl" ninja ladies consistant. He clearly has a side that he keeps under wraps and doesn't want his brothers knowing about! :twink: :toops:

[ObiWanFan4life]

But they HAVE Leo/Lotus in the new one- she seems to have changed her name to Karai, LOL! JK. The paralells between the two are really hard to miss, though. Lotus pretty much WAS Karai before there even was a Karai. I like that the've kept that aspect of Leo liking the "bad girl" ninja ladies consistant. He clearly has a side that he keeps under wraps and doesn't want his brothers knowing about! :twink: :toops:

Um nooooo, Karai first appeared in the mirage comics. Lotus Blossum is essentially Karai but with a different name.

[Refractive Reflections]

Um nooooo, Karai first appeared in the mirage comics. Lotus Blossum is essentially Karai but with a different name.

Lotus is kind of similar to Karai in the beginning, but Lotus doesn't have that feeling of being devoted to Shredder like Karai does. Lotus was merely a "ninja for hire" while Karai has some type of family bond with Shredder.


I like that the've kept that aspect of Leo liking the "bad girl" ninja ladies consistant. He clearly has a side that he keeps under wraps and doesn't want his brothers knowing about! :twink: :toops:

Anyways, yeah... Leo has something for the "bad girls" it seems like. I think they appeal to him because they help bring out a side to his personality (more risk-taking, and feels freer from the strict expectations of being a leader/role-model) that he can't really reveal to others (his brothers and Splinter), but of course as alluring as that is... it ends up being to his detriment as those "bad girls" eventually cause some form of trouble or heartache. (It's similar to the reason as to why the "good girls" go for the "bad boys".)

It brings up the issue, of how much Leo's noble character was innately his own personality, or if it was developed from the weighted responsibility of the being the leader and the oldest sibling.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Um nooooo, Karai first appeared in the mirage comics. Lotus Blossum is essentially Karai but with a different name.

Didn't Lotus appear on the OT show before Karai appeared in the Mirage comic?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Um nooooo, Karai first appeared in the mirage comics. Lotus Blossum is essentially Karai but with a different name.

Um, you DID realize that was a joke, right? Hence the lol in there. I was being facetious there. I wasn't referring to any specific continuity, either. They seem to be interchangable, though. Personally, I liked Lotus better.

@DN82: I think Lotus appeared first, but I wouldn't swear to it. I don't recall ever hearing anything about Karai until after Lotus was first introduced, but since I wasn't readin the comics back then, I can't be sure. Maybe someone else here will know.

[cryan]

was really hoping that Mona Lisa came back but that didn't happen. I thought she would have been a good love interest for Raph,IMO.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Um, you DID realize that was a joke, right? Hence the lol in there. I was being facetious there. I wasn't referring to any specific continuity, either. They seem to be interchangable, though. Personally, I liked Lotus better.

@DN82: I think Lotus appeared first, but I wouldn't swear to it. I don't recall ever hearing anything about Karai until after Lotus was first introduced, but since I wasn't readin the comics back then, I can't be sure. Maybe someone else here will know.

Karai first appeared in the City at War arc in Mirage in 1992...so yes, Lotus came first. Did some research :D

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah! I THOUGHT so! I remembered seeing her when I started watching the show around 1990-ish, so I was pretty sure that Lotus would have been first.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Ah! I THOUGHT so! I remembered seeing her when I started watching the show around 1990-ish, so I was pretty sure that Lotus would have been first.

Yep, so you thought correctly :D

[Candy Kappa]

Lotus and Karai is nothing alike besides both are female and are Ninja, the comparison is as silly as comparing Mona Lisa with Ninjara

[miru]

I would love to see Ninjara and Mona Lisa competing for Raph's heart on the Nick series.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Lotus and Karai is nothing alike besides both are female and are Ninja, the comparison is as silly as comparing Mona Lisa with Ninjara

You mean other than they were both fighting on Shredder's side, both have a warped sense of "honor", both are from Japan and have no other family, and both have ambiguous feelings for Leo? And there's nothing there to compare? That's hardly the case, from what we've seen of both. True, Lotus only appeared twice(Beware the Lotus and Farewell, Lotus Blossom), but in that short time, her character recieved more depth and development than Karai did through MOST of the2K3 series.

At least Lotus had a concrete motive for what she was doing- it was for the money. She also was not corrupted by outside influences- she was a modern kunoichi trying to make a living, and Krang(not Shredder) hired her. Karai had no real excuse. "Daddy said so" just doesn't cut it with me for a reason to hate/fight the Turtles. And Lotus eventually had a change of heart and helped them. She even came back to ask their help later on when she was having dream-visions of a past life that somehow involved Leo! Karai would have been too proud to do that.

[Candy Kappa]

let me rephrase, Lotus and original Karai is nothing alike. To hell with the inferior and idiotically written 4Kids Karai, she was a flaky weak person who served only to be under Shredder's shadow and be a angsty whiner.

Karai from Mirage is the leader of the Japanese branch of the Foot and was sent to NY to clean up Saki's mess after he died, and when her own daughter was killed in a clash with the rogue NY Foot, she made the Turtles swear yo help her end the war between the splint NY factions. That's her sole connection to Shredder, and no warm feelings for Leo.

but since you're referring to the stupid version of Karai. The biggest difference between 2k3 karai and Lotus is that Lotus is a independent woman, while Karai is completely dependent on Shredder, so much that even when he clearly don't follow any code of honor she blindly follows him. She even joins him again during the Turtles Forever event.

Lotus might be warm about Leo, but I never felt that was the case with 2k3 Karai, it seemed platonic and more about being with someone that had a strong code of honor.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I've never read the Mirage books (yet, though I plan to if the TPB's ever come down in price enough) so I can't jusge that version of her, but I never felt she was idiotic in the 2K3 series- just sadly misled and co-dependant. Reminds me of an abused spouse who sticks around out of a mis-guided sense of duty and "love", in spite of the destructive nature of the relationship. And I DID get the vibe of her having some sort of feelings for Leo- it's plainly shown on several occasions that his desire to reach out to her is more than platonic, or even a simple wish to "save" her- he appears to actually care about her on a deeper level at several points. As for her feeelings, she appears to reciprocate in several episodes, to the point of having doubts about her loyalty- but is pretty obviously in denial of her conflicted feelings. There are several moments where you can see she is clearly torn between remaining with Shredder as his loyal daughter, and taking Leo up on his offer to start over. and I can't say the looks between them are platonic- there is just too much tension there for it NOT to be a bit morethan that! (I've studied a bit of psychology, and the signs are there, if one knows what to look for.)

So far, we have yet to see what her role will be in IDW, at least up to Sins of the Fathers which is where I'm currently at. If anything has changed since then, I'm unaware of it thus far. Just ordered a copy of Krang War though, so I'll have to see where she goes in that one. I'm curious to see how she will develope in this, and whether she will prove to be more like the original (and your description of her in Mirage is intriguing) or the animated version. And if I recall Turtles Forever right, she actually ended up switching sides for good at the end, and helped them defeat Ch'rell! Then again, I doubt she wanted to be erased from existance. (cue ominous Back to the Future music).

[Candy Kappa]

2k3 Karai was so flaky written under poor guise that she had loyalty issues, that she was an idiot, she was all over the place with her "honor". She only joins the turtles in Turtles Forever when she knows that Shredder is going to destroy all of existence. if it had not been for bebop and that Ch'rell was obliterated, I'm sure Karai would have escaped with him after the turtles had defeated him.

I've also taken psychology, and I don't see any obvious romantic tension between them. it seems to be more if Karai had left the Foot, would be akin to what Samwise had with Frodo in Lord of the Rings and not what Samwise had with Rose. 2k3 Leo wanted to save karai because he sensed good in her and wanted her away from Ch'rell.

[shell4brains]

I think romantic relationships are a good thing for character development. They can create tension and turmoil in certain relationships, and can be a good way for characters to have personal growth. For example, the Leo and Karai relationship in the Nick show threw tension in between Raph and Leo, due to Karai being on the other ''team''. Then you have the Donnie and April relationship. As if things weren't tense enough for poor Donnie, things are gonna be even more tense when Casey Jones shows up next season. Donnie's gonna have some growing up to do soon.

In the IDW comics you have Casey and April who are still in their early romantic stages. Things may even get rocky if Casey and Angel get romantic. Mikey's crush on the Neutrino's princess was certainly a funny nod to Mikey and Kala from the OT, but more so, it may create tension if it ever gets serious.

So yeah, I'm in full support of romance in TMNT whether it be mutant/mutant romance, human/human romance, or mutant/human romance. I really hope to see them continuing the trend in both show and comics.

[Garfield]

Lotus has similarities to some versions of Karai. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

[AnarkyLantern]

I think of different versions having different love interests or none at all personally. Ot- raph and Mona Lisa. Archie- raph and ninjara. 2k3- raph and joi. 2k12- raph and fishface. Etc

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I think romantic relationships are a good thing for character development. They can create tension and turmoil in certain relationships, and can be a good way for characters to have personal growth. For example, the Leo and Karai relationship in the Nick show threw tension in between Raph and Leo, due to Karai being on the other ''team''. Then you have the Donnie and April relationship. As if things weren't tense enough for poor Donnie, things are gonna be even more tense when Casey Jones shows up next season. Donnie's gonna have some growing up to do soon.

In the IDW comics you have Casey and April who are still in their early romantic stages. Things may even get rocky if Casey and Angel get romantic. Mikey's crush on the Neutrino's princess was certainly a funny nod to Mikey and Kala from the OT, but more so, it may create tension if it ever gets serious.

So yeah, I'm in full support of romance in TMNT whether it be mutant/mutant romance, human/human romance, or mutant/human romance. I really hope to see them continuing the trend in both show and comics.

Now THIS is what I'm talkin' about! I enjoy throwing a little tension into the mix, and romance or even one-sided attachments are a great way to do that, as any professional writer can tell you. It's not just a tool for "shipping" as some dismissively deem it- it's a real, dramatic way to show how characters think, feel, and act. It's what makes them believable. Even characters in a ficional setting do not walk around in an emotional vacume, and having romantic feelings for someone else is one of the biggest dramatic hooks there is. It's been around since the Greeks started doing theater WAAAY back in time, and it's STILL one of the best tools in a writer's box. I mean, come on- how could Shakespeare be wrong?