Scale of 1-10: How Dark is this series?

[JTH]

When I first heard about the new Nick Turtles show, I expected it to be a CG version of the 87' turtles, story wise. Comedy driven and a lot of cheesiness.

While that stuff is there, I must say some of the stories are quite dark for a Nick show, closer to the 03' Turtles than the 87' Turtles from that aspect of it. Which is a big surprise to me.

Scale of 1-10, I'd say about a 6.

Thoughts?

[CyberCubed]

There's really nothing on the level of the 4kids series yet. Characters haven't been impaled, stabbed, or died whatsoever. In the 4kids series Mikey pulled a pin on a grenade and LAUGHED as the Triceraton was blown up off-screen.

There were also characters shooting realistic hand guns at each other which is something we haven't seen in Nick yet.

[The Stryker]

.....Who cares?

Unless you mean literally then I give it a 7.

[TheCanadiandrome]

i'd say about a 6.5

[LH]

I would say somewhere around 6 or 7 is accurate... I mean we've got:

-The murder of Tang Shen.

-Snakeweed mutating to the point where his bones and heart are exposed, and then being violently destroyed twice.

-Leatherhead being tortured and experimented on his whole life, escaping, and then going back to Dimension X to save his friends.

-Dr.Rockwell being turned into a mutant monkey, and then having psychic fluids painfully removed from his brain.

-The Rat King being horribly burned and scarred, forced to spend the rest of his life in the sewer among rats.

-Karai being threatened by Shredder with his blade.

-The fact that the Kraang are planning genocide on the human race.

-That very intense beating April recieved in the last episode.

[Martin]

There's really nothing on the level of the 4kids series yet. Characters haven't been impaled, stabbed, or died whatsoever. In the 4kids series Mikey pulled a pin on a grenade and LAUGHED as the Triceraton was blown up off-screen.

There were also characters shooting realistic hand guns at each other which is something we haven't seen in Nick yet.

Ahh the good old times...

I'd give this series a 5 in terms of darkness. It had it's moments (both fights against shredder come to mind especially the first one), but when compared to the levels of darkness/violence of the 2k3 run, it really doesn't come anywhere near it.

[Andrew NDB]

1 being Fred Wolf and 10 being, like, Ninja Assassin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Lj5PgSZq4)? Like a 2, 2 1/2 at best.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

3? It's a lighthearted, fun series. It's not supposed to be 100% serious.

[Drose18]

Not even 4 :oops:

[NinjaPug]

I'd give it a 3.

[Shark_Blade]

I would say somewhere around 6 or 7 is accurate... I mean we've got:

-The murder of Tang Shen.

-Snakeweed mutating to the point where his bones and heart are exposed, and then being violently destroyed twice.

-Leatherhead being tortured and experimented on his whole life, escaping, and then going back to Dimension X to save his friends.

-Dr.Rockwell being turned into a mutant monkey, and then having psychic fluids painfully removed from his brain.

-The Rat King being horribly burned and scarred, forced to spend the rest of his life in the sewer among rats.

-Karai being threatened by Shredder with his blade.

-The fact that the Kraang are planning genocide on the human race.

-That very intense beating April recieved in the last episode.
Agree with this but I'll give it an 8.

If they include blood and shirt rip, it'll be higher. :)

[BabyTurtles]

Agree with this but I'll give it an 8.

If they include blood and shirt rip, it'll be higher. :)

what about that time Leo sliced, Spyroaches saw arm and black ooze spewed out XD......

[Martin]

I think this thread needs a poll. It'd be a nice round up of everyone's opinions on the matter.

[Leofan26]

I'm giving it a 7 myself, I'd say 4Kids version was the darkest of the TMNT series, this has some moments like Karai arc hitting that level sort of.

[Jester]

I give it a 9.95...

(:D)

[Candy Kappa]

When it wants to go dark, it goes to a solid 7.

[Andrew NDB]

When it wants to go dark, it goes to a solid 7.

I wonder... is the darkest material you've ever seen, like, Harry Potter or something?

[Jester]

Depends on how you gauge the scale, Andrew.

I'm assuming (I know, that's a risky endeavor) the 1-10 scale is for children's action oriented cartoons.

If the scale included R rated flicks, than the scale would scale accordingly.

[zkarlette]

I give it a 3 and that is when Xever was around.

[Candy Kappa]

I wonder... is the darkest material you've ever seen, like, Harry Potter or something?

This is all considered that it is a superhero-world action cartoon.

We have had dismemberment of Snakeweed, hes been blown to bits and had it not been for his healing factor he'd be dead by now. we saw his heart stop beating.

Flashback Yoshi holding a dead Tang Shen.

Shredder's motives are to kill and he nearly succeeded had it not been for Xever and Bradford's distraction.

Didn't Foot Ninja get thrown off the building in The Gauntlet?

Leatherhead is implied tortured, same with the captured Kraang in karai's Vendetta.

Karai's senseless beating of April in same episode, had it not been for bringing her in alive April would have been dead.

The Turtles aren't always up to save people, if it isn't their business they don't without reason go all Hero out. That is why April had to go Solo in a previous episode to find out what the Kraang was up to. Had it not been for Donnie April would also have been taken with her father.

The moral of teh show is a lot more realistic then the average children's cartoon:
Do no harm, unless you mean to do harm. Then do lots of harm.
It's about winning not fairness.
Use the element of surprise.
don't let the enemy get the better of you.

Leo's swords do connect hits, fighting the sea monster you can see Leo's swords cut the beast, as well as Raph's sai stab it. Mikey cut open a Kraang Droid when he thought it was human.

The show have the characters intention to kill and not "Take them!" it is (of course limits of being a children's cartoon) as dark as the average superhero comic book goes, as well as the Mirage TMNT books.

The show may never go bodycount on us, but that's a good thing. bodycount is not dark or gritty in story telling sense. it's just Hilarius bloodsplatter fest and is really pointless. nor will we most likely ever see Leo skewer Shredder or behead him, Raph stab a Foot to death and etc. But there are other ways of telling a dark story. Often, not seeing the bad stuff is worse, making us imagine it ourselves.

The show also gives us some authentic Ninja bits here and there and not just popculture crap like most ninja show and movies like Ninja Assassin gives us. Which was about time some research was done for the TMNT franchise.

[BubblyShell22]

For now, I'd give it an 8 as we've seen quite a few dark things what with Falco being burned and turned into the Rat King, not to mention The Gauntlet fight, Don's fight with the monkey, April's fight with Karai, and the whole murder thing at the beginning with Shen. I wouldn't give it a ten yet until we see more dark stuff.

[miru]

With 1 being the sing alongs and 10.being the RPG, id give it a 5.9, somewhere above Next Mutation and Red Sky, but nothing on level.with Mirage or even 2k3 even though I know.it will probably happen.

[CyberCubed]

Also Leatherhead killed the two Kraang at the end of his debut episode. "You're not telling anybody, anything!"

And then you hear ripping and slashing sounds as the ep fades to black. Leatherhead must have torn those two Kraang to shreds.

[LH]

Also Leatherhead killed the two Kraang at the end of his debut episode. "You're not telling anybody, anything!"

And then you hear ripping and slashing sounds as the ep fades to black. Leatherhead must have torn those two Kraang to shreds.

Oh yes, They were properly dispatched. :twink:

While we're at it, Leatherhead's subway car killed a few Kraang on it's journey down the track at the end there.

[Ninjawolf]

I wonder... is the darkest material you've ever seen, like, Harry Potter or something?

Andrew have you actually read Harry Potter? Especially the last 3? Those aren't exactly fluffy bunnies considering Voldemort KILLS people onscreen... I say a 5-6 for the show though... it shifts between light and dark

[VaughnMichael]

I'd give it a light 5.

[RaphAndDonnie]

I would gove it a sold 6. It's darker then the OT but not quite as dark as 2k3.Oh yes, They were properly dispatched. :twink:

While we're at it, Leatherhead's subway car killed a few Kraang on it's journey down the track at the end there.

Not to mention that, in Leatherhead's flashback, he chomped a Kraang bot in the middle, completely onscreen. I was kinda shocked at that the first time I saw it.

[LH]

I would gove it a sold 6. It's darker then the OT but not quite as dark as 2k3.

Not to mention that, in Leatherhead's flashback, he chomped a Kraang bot in the middle, completely onscreen. I was kinda shocked at that the first time I saw it.

True, though the Kraang was in the bottom half of the bot when He tossed the two halves:

[Lightjump]

About a 7.5 ,the gauntlet, i monster,enemy of my enemy, and Karia's Vendata takes up most of the list

[oldmanwinters]

Why is everybody always so obsessed with this notion of "dark." Is that some kind of ideal for adults who watch children's television shows?

I give it a 9.95...

(:D)

"Nobody's perfect down here on earth
But we can rock this world for all we're worth"

[Cipher]

I wonder... is the darkest material you've ever seen, like, Harry Potter or something?
Let's be fair: You know this asked in context of it being TV Y7.

But let's also be fair: This is totally the kind of question that would be asked by an adult embarrassed to be enjoying a TV Y7 cartoon.

So give it a 7 on the literal light/darkness scale from me as well. Lots of shadows and night scenes in this show. Very dark.

[Konchadunga]

Why is everybody always so obsessed with this notion of "dark." Is that some kind of ideal for adults who watch children's television shows?

For a while, I feel like it's been touted as an ideal for every medium, and frankly I hate it. It's forcing too much conformity and moodiness onto too many movies. Thank goodness we seem to be moving out of that mentality.

[snake]

I would say somewhere around 6 or 7 is accurate... I mean we've got:

-The murder of Tang Shen.

-Snakeweed mutating to the point where his bones and heart are exposed, and then being violently destroyed twice.

-Leatherhead being tortured and experimented on his whole life, escaping, and then going back to Dimension X to save his friends.

-Dr.Rockwell being turned into a mutant monkey, and then having psychic fluids painfully removed from his brain.

-The Rat King being horribly burned and scarred, forced to spend the rest of his life in the sewer among rats.

-Karai being threatened by Shredder with his blade.

-The fact that the Kraang are planning genocide on the human race.

-That very intense beating April recieved in the last episode.

This^^ the show is very much like Teen Titans in terms of darkness, ( also made by ciro Nieli) it knows when to be serious and delivers funny moments at the same time.

[jenna]

In terms of plot, the 'darkness' is always going to be quite mellow, given the target audience beyond us loyal adults. Any real violence is going to be against creatures and robots.

Until a blood-stained weapon is pulled from a human body (a la the front cover of Tales of the TMNT 36,), I wouldn't describe it as materially dark. But they are doing a good job with the martial arts without crossing the line that would upset the censors (except here in the UK :roll: - Thank God for a PG rated DVD release!)

They have also tempered Raphael's anger issues - which in previous incarnations have provided some real gritty material (looking at you, film 1, 2k3 and 2k7). I'd like to see where they take that.

Where they have done a really good job is in creating a dark, gritty atmosphere. Moody skies, the city at night, graffiti-strewn alleys. The show feels quite dark in temperament at least. (This was a point also emphasised in Turtles Forever when they entered the Mirage world - a dark atmosphere was communicated before anything happened. It was very effective and as such not to be overlooked.)

So I'd give it a 5.

[demonsweat]

Compared to adult-oriented stuff it's not very dark, but in the context of it being a kid's show? I'll go a 7. It's been delightfully more violent than I was expecting. TMNT is a property that revolves around fighting, so toning it down too much takes it too far away from the source material.

One thing I really like is how they don't seem to hold back much against human and/or organic opponents. Of course, the blades can't make contact - but it doesn't stop them from trying. Mikey slashes the face right off a Kraang droid before he even knows it's a robot. Leo went to to town on Falco (but of course he dodged every move) and in this last episode, Raph actually stabs his sais right into the sea monster at one point (we just don't see the point of entry).

It's pretty cool. Another thing I like is how the turtles themselves come home all f'd up, scratched up and scarred. Mikey's even been knocked out once, which freaked out my kid a little (she thought he died). :lol:

[Martin]

I think that the levels of darkness of this show are kind of toned down by all the goofiness, but are definitely there. That being said though, it's still nowhere near 2k3. A kid's show can't get much darker than this:

b2qVU-jnfS8

[Slade]

Idk...honestly? 4? 4.5?

I don't find any of the things that have happened yet to be "dark". Dismembering robotic bodies or things happening offscreen doesn't seem all that big a deal to me. Guess violence doesn't make it dark for me...

The only reason I even give it above a 2 is Shredder.

[demonsweat]

I think that the levels of darkness of this show are kind of toned down by all the goofiness, but are definitely there. That being said though, it's still nowhere near 2k3. A kid's show can't get much darker than this:

b2qVU-jnfS8


Oooh yeah. SAINW is, hands down, my favorite episode from 2k3. Good point. What I wouldn't give for a "what if" future scenario in this version. Maybe one where the Kraang succeed in taking over the planet. Or Shredder manages to kill Splinter, or one or more of the turtles themselves. Or a mad scientist capture/threaten-to-dissect story, a la Agent Bishop. Hell, I'd love to see Bishop return, he was a great villain all around.

Here's hoping the Nick crew keeps pushing the boundaries a little. I for one would like to see them reach the same level as 2k3 or beyond. The humor definitely lightens it up, but hey - all the more reason to push the darker stuff, right? :D

[LH]

Or a mad scientist capture/threaten-to-dissect story, a la Agent Bishop.

Yeah... This scene made me cringe...(2:00)
BFelFWqmHAs

[demonsweat]

Yeah... This scene made me cringe...(2:00)
BFelFWqmHAs

Nice. Yeah, the Good Genes arc is a close second for me. I guess I've always been drawn to the darker elements of TMNT. (Insane in the Membrane, anyone? :D) I guess if we're going to compare the two, then 2k3 is on the darker, more serious side. This version seems more action/humor based. I think it's violent in the action but maybe "dark" is too heavy a word.

But I dunno, it's pretty early on yet. I'm willing to bet that the Nick crew will step it up, especially since they all seem to be old school fans themselves.

[Vivi]

With one being dark, and ten being light, I give it a 5.

[CrazySquirrel]

I would say about a two or three. It's serious at times but almost never dark. I actually did find the beating April took disturbing in the most recent episode...

[pannoni1]

I enjoy Nick's moderate approach and is part of the reasons why I like this show (applies to the first movie, too). There were hardly any daytime episodes at all in 4kids and a lot in the OT, with Nick bringing and occasional one. Shredder is a bit of sillyness, but is still a serious foe, and the Kraang are just plain nasty. Some new characters are tough (Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, Tough Dogpound/Chris contrasts with the oafy Fishface/Xever. Baxter is almost as serious as 4kids, but seems to just hope that Shredder is a good boss like in the OT. Other mainstays like Leatherhead, Karai, the Rat King, and Metalhead are rather goofy at times. an I'd give it a 5 (1= light, 10=dark).

For a reference, I'd give the other universes as follows:

Mirage= 9
Image= 10
Archie= 5
OT Season 1= 5
OT Season 2= 4
OT Season 3= 3
OT Seasons 4-5, European Vacation= 1
OT Season 6= 3
OT Season 7= 4
OT Red Sky= 6
Movie I= 6
Movie II= 3
Movie III= 4
CGI Movie= 4
Next Mutation= 2
4kids Seasons 1-5: 8
4kids Fast Forward= 4
4kids Back to the Sewer= 6
IDW= 6

[AK_Mikey_Fan]

In my honest opinion, probably about a 7. Stuff like Splinter's loss of his wife and child, implied tortured and experimentation are some of the reasons why. Overall, pretty good

[CowabungaMikey]

A 3 for the darkness off this show

[Kendamu]

The story happens at night, but there's not really any Frank Miller grimdark stuff going on. It's largely not much different than anything Airbender/Korra related in terms of action and comedy. Heck, Dragon Ball is darker than this show and most of it takes place during bright, sunny days where martial artists learn the value of friendship while going on adventures together.

That's not necessarily bad. I doubt my 4-year-old nephew would really genuinely appreciate the depth and darkness that could be brought to the Turtles just yet. For now, I think he's okay with what he's got aimed right in his face from our pals at Nickelodeon.

[turtletoons81]

i give it a 5 mostly cause it balances light and dark tone it doesn't get itself too goofy or too serious it has the right amount of balance tone for the show

[raphfan84]

It's definitely darker than the OT but not as dark as the 4 kids. Id say on a scale of 1-10 I give it a 6. I do like though how Shredder is more serious than the OT Shredder, how ever I would not change a thing about the OT Shredder I think he was hilarious.

[snake]

The latest episode was pretty dark, Id give it a 6/7.

[Shreddhead]

If the goofiest parts of the OT are the baseline, then this show is a 3. Until this last episode there was absolutely nothing seriously dangerous going on. And the 3 is only because of Pulverizer's predicament, otherwise id have given it a 2.

[Shreddhead]

In my honest opinion, probably about a 7. Stuff like Splinter's loss of his wife and child, implied tortured and experimentation are some of the reasons why. Overall, pretty good

Dude, please never EVER watch an R rated movie. You might just die...

[TurtleMaster4]

Hmm, I'd give it a 4ish, not as dark as the 4kids

[JTH]

Dude, please never EVER watch an R rated movie. You might just die...

To be fair, most people like myself are scaling it based on other Ninja Turtle incarnations. (1 being 87' cartoon & 10 being the original comics)

It's why I gave it a 6, just a little under the first movie.

[snake]

To be fair, most people like myself are scaling it based on other Ninja Turtle incarnations. (1 being 87' cartoon & 10 being the original comics)

It's why I gave it a 6, just a little under the first movie.

The First movie I'd give a 7/8

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Six, if you're counting what they're actually implying (Splinter's family's death, Pulverizer's tragic story), but two if your talking actual on-screen blood and violence as 'dark'. I've seen all sorts of horror movies, and what I saw happen to mutagen man creeped me out more than any gory bloodfest I've seen in a movie.

[Klunk1234]

When I first heard about the new Nick Turtles show, I expected it to be a CG version of the 87' turtles, story wise. Comedy driven and a lot of cheesiness.

While that stuff is there, I must say some of the stories are quite dark for a Nick show, closer to the 03' Turtles than the 87' Turtles from that aspect of it. Which is a big surprise to me.

Scale of 1-10, I'd say about a 6.

Thoughts?

I would say about a 7.

Snake's transformation into Snakeweed.
Tang Shen's murder
Hamato Yoshi transformation into Master Splinter
Karai beating April
Dr. Falco transforms into the Rat King
The Pulverizer's mutation (remind of 2k3 Baxter Stockman by showing up his internal organs)
Dr Rockwell(mutated monkey) tortured by Dr. Falco.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

this should be a poll, instead of people just voting in replies

saying that though, i would say about a 4 or 5

[kelligrafie]

Let's not forget the start of Karai's Vendetta when Shredder is grilling the Kraang and the lower arms and legs have been removed so he/she/it can't get away. I don't know if they were blasted/knocked off in the previous fight or intentionally removed by Team Shredder but that's still along the lines of torture even though it's the robot part.

[alliance]

it isnt that dark but the mood of it is 'dark' enough if that makes any sense, i dont think they truely need to be dark either, the adventures and themselves are already awesome as it is, the '03 stuff relied on that alil to break away and that series fizzled out completely never to be remembered ever again i feel the 2012 versions are just fine and simply perfect the way they are if they do make the tone just alil darker i am all for it since what we have already is perfect quality stuff..

[shuriken]

It all depends on the scale of course. For a kids' toon it's a healthy 6. Has some dark stuff but nothing really heavy handed. In terms of G-R rating then like a 3.