A way to salvage Venus de Milo

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Venus De Milo... one of the most hated characters in TMNT lore, she is the thing that ruined the next mutation for many of it's viewers. Yet, I have recently come to realize that with some extensive retooling, any chacter can be revamped into something interesting.

Ok, I run a D20 TMNT RPG with my college friends, and the players in my game play the actual turtles and thier allies. I have recently been forced by situation (We had a girl join who knew about Venus, and wanted to play the girl Turtle) despite several protests from the group, I decided to work on her story to make the character work better. Tell me what you think;

Raised high in the moutians of China by the Daoist monk Chun-I after her parents abandoned her, the human woman Mei-Pi-Cheh became well known throughout the surrounding villages for her healing abilities and Chi-based telekenetic techquines. Kidnapped by the Foot Clan so that the foot mystics could study her abilities. Hearing about the kidnappings, the turtles go to rescue her from the Shredder's clutches. But during the botched rescue attempt, Mei is exposed to mutagen while being near one of the turtles. Transformed into a turtle herself, Mei eventually joined the TMNT's allies as a skilled healer with the albility to hurl objects with her mind, and some limited Kung-fu abilities, though a ninja she is not.

So, does something like this make the character more palatable? I'm hoping that the idea will be acceptable to my group.

[Andrew NDB]

There are many ways to "salvage" the character but the question to be asked, I think, is... "Why would you want to?"

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Becuase some people actually like certian characters, despite a lame potrayal in thier original medium, and actually think they can be revamped into something better. They see a glimmer of potentiel there, and it's not just a wash of 'nostalgia'. Much like Mister Freeze/Mister Zero was originally a goofball villian revamped into a dramatic and three dimensonal character, so other characters in other fictions can be.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Becuase some people actually like certian characters, despite a lame potrayal in thier original medium, and actually think they can be revamped into something better. They see a glimmer of potentiel there, and it's not just a wash of 'nostalgia'. Much like Mister Freeze/Mister Zero was originally a goofball villian revamped into a dramatic and three dimensonal character, so other characters in other fictions can be.

Next Mutation's downfall was that it was a carbon copy of the power rangers, Venus was one of the shows bigger problems. If she appears, there should be several alterations to her character:

1. No Magic
2. No overpowering the Turtles
3. No being used as a love-interest
4. No shell puns
5. No mixing up american terms
6. Absolutely NO Shell-Tits

Even then, the number of fans who Hate her far outnumber those who like her.

[ToTheNines]

I'd love to see Venus as a villain.

Of course, they shouldn't keep her around too long and Leo should decapitate her in an epic battle. That way, everybody wins.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Everyting else aside, I do respect all of the opinions that 'they suck', and partially agree with them.

When it was insisted that Venus had to be used, I decided to abolish the Mary-Sue asppects- no, she cannot take all the other turtles in a fight. She is a former human and not a ninja, so the long lost sister spect is tossed, along with the turtles not being brothers/relationship dilemmia from Next Mutation.

As for the magic... well, I have it turn out her healing/Telekenetic powers are the result of her knowledge of Daoist Alchemy- used in such a way that she is able to convince others she actually has powers- a form of Trickery on her opponents a ninja could respect. Her smoke bombs, her healing, and the 'mind tricks' from tossing a vile of an alchemical mix. Al;so her Kung Fu makes her fighting diffrent fom the other turtles.

As to the 'shell boobs', I did away with those, and also allowed the player to give her hair with a ponytail- a vestigal trait from her human origins, much like Mona Lisa has. Further differentiating her from her original counterpart.

[CyberCubed]

Every character from Next Mutation should be purposely buried and never spoken of again.

I don't even consider those characters to be TMNT characters, I view them as Saban/Power Ranger characters. Dragon Lord, Bonesteel, Venus, etc don't qualify as TMNT characters.

[Vivi]

Shell-boobs aside, the worst thing about Venus was that she was another mutant turtle. Almost anything else could be salvaged.

[shihe]

Well...

-Give her another color, light blue is too much like Leo (I pictured White on her)
-Make her a black skinned Turtle. I mean why not? There are several Turtle species out there, and it would be cool seeing this one.
-No "mystical" powers, give her an actual weapon.
-No shellboobs.
-Make her a beginner as opposed to being capable of beating all 4 Turtles at once.

And this just covers the basic, most annoying aspects of Venus.

To be honest, everytime I'm like "Ok, I'll give the show another chance, and Venus too for that matter, can't be that bad, can it?"

Then I watch an episode and wonder why the heck I even thought of giving it another chance. :(
(And I keep giving them.. I guess I figure if Saban brought me hours upon hours of entertainment with Power Rangers, this would do a bit better, being TMNT and all)

[VaughnMichael]

I've always been fine with the idea of Venus, it's just the entire she was there and we just never saw her in the fish bowl that bothers me.
Every character from Next Mutation should be purposely buried and never spoken of again.

I don't even consider those characters to be TMNT characters, I view them as Saban/Power Ranger characters. Dragon Lord, Bonesteel, Venus, etc don't qualify as TMNT characters.
Yet Kevin Eastman came up with most of them.:roll:

[Stingray69]

I like the idea of venus just not her origin.

I dont see a problem with another muntant turtle. No one seems to have a problem with slash or tokka. So why all the hate for her?

I would just prefer she not become a perment part of the team. Maybe join up with them here and there but not all the time.

Shell boobs, who cares? Half her dna is human why cant she have boobs? Plus it makes it easier for people who are not fans to see thats its female turtle.

Physic powers? why not look at all the other crazy stuff we love and accept as part of the lore.

As for her color someone on here did a custom re paint with her bieng pink. I thought that looked awsome.

[Shark_Blade]

Salvage Venus?

http://i.imgur.com/0Md8gg5.gif

[alliance]

no no no no no....


lets bring back Jar Jar while were at it when the 2015 movie hits..

[Mod Edit: Rude and unnecessary comments removed.]

[GodzFire]

#shelltits

[miru]

Yes! Let's salvage her!


I actually liked her on Next Mutation. Maybe she could mutate from April or Spike? She should still have the shellboobs, but not be more powerful than the turtles. That's like Blaze being stronger than Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy.

[ryukenden]

If someway somehow Venus does make a return. She should not overshadow and make the main Turtles look useless. One idea comes to mind is that she ought to have difficulty settling in because Leo and Raph feel she is not ready.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Yes! Let's salvage her!


I actually liked her on Next Mutation. Maybe she could mutate from April or Spike? She should still have the shellboobs, but not be more powerful than the turtles. That's like Blaze being stronger than Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy.

No! Let's Not!

Mutate from Spike? Nasty! How about somebody cool like Alopex or Usagi.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

no no no no no....

[...]

Dude, really? Over a fictional character? :roll: That was rude, immature, and uncalled for man, seriously

I said I originally didn't like her ethier, but I was pushed by one of my players to let her play the 'girl turtle', despite offering to make an OC for her who was less mary-sue-ish. So I did the best I could retooling her into something usable.

The point of this thread was if you were forced to use her, how could you best salvage her, not that she should be salvaged. I don't really care if they bring venus back, or not. My point was somebody else saw a glimmer of potential in the character, and I did my best to make her work given the circumstances.

[RaphAndDonnie]

The point of this thread was if you were forced to use her, how could you best salvage her, not that she should be salvaged. I don't really care if they bring venus back, or not. My point was somebody else saw a glimmer of potential in the character, and I did my best to make her work given the circumstances.
There are many times were I've gotten requests to write fan fiction about characters that are considered useless and bad so I'll rework the character a bit. The backstory you gave Venus here:

Raised high in the moutians of China by the Daoist monk Chun-I after her parents abandoned her, the human woman Mei-Pi-Cheh became well known throughout the surrounding villages for her healing abilities and Chi-based telekenetic techquines. Kidnapped by the Foot Clan so that the foot mystics could study her abilities. Hearing about the kidnappings, the turtles go to rescue her from the Shredder's clutches. But during the botched rescue attempt, Mei is exposed to mutagen while being near one of the turtles. Transformed into a turtle herself, Mei eventually joined the TMNT's allies as a skilled healer with the albility to hurl objects with her mind, and some limited Kung-fu abilities, though a ninja she is not.
is quite good, certainly better then her actual backstory.

[alliance]

Dude, really? Over a fictional character? :roll: That was rude, immature, and uncalled for man, seriously

I said I originally didn't like her ethier, but I was pushed by one of my players to let her play the 'girl turtle', despite offering to make an OC for her who was less mary-sue-ish. So I did the best I could retooling her into something usable.

The point of this thread was if you were forced to use her, how could you best salvage her, not that she should be salvaged. I don't really care if they bring venus back, or not. My point was somebody else saw a glimmer of potential in the character, and I did my best to make her work given the circumstances.

YES...over a fictional character..

your reasons for doing this thread simply is rude, immature, and uncalled for, seriously..

all i said was the o'l u must be smokin that stuff comment, nothing more...relax

but i'll bite.. i actually do have a suggestion with what we can do with such an abomination of a character


heres my awesome idea:


at the end of the episode she turns out to be a robot..


theres my idea..


preserving the integrity of the Turtles even though turtles 3 is still in existance

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

YES...over a fictional character..

your reasons for doing this thread simply is rude, immature, and uncalled for, seriously..

all i said was the o'l u must be smokin that stuff comment, nothing more...relax

but i'll bite.. i actually do have a suggestion with what we can do with such an abomination of a character


heres my awesome idea:


at the end of the episode she turns out to be a robot..


theres my idea..


preserving the integrity of the Turtles even though turtles 3 is still in existance

Dude, you said I was &%$-ed up, that felt like an actual insult. And my reasons for starting this thread are neither immature, rude, or uncalled for. I was talking about how I was forced to bring Venus back in an RPG I'm running, and how I modified her to at least make the character salvagable.

Personally, I do not, repeat, not care for Venus. I would have pereferred she create a female turtle OC, rather than bring Venus back. And we do have other turtles in the RP- Slash and Tokka are villians that occasionally show up.


EDIT; Just forget about it, I don't want a conflict of any kind over a fictional character.

[alliance]

Dude, you said I was &%$-ed up, that felt like an actual insult. And my reasons for starting this thread are neither immature, rude, or uncalled for. I was talking about how I was forced to bring Venus back in an RPG I'm running, and how I modified her to at least make the character salvagable.

Personally, I do not, repeat, not care for Venus. I would have pereferred she create a female turtle OC, rather than bring Venus back. And we do have other turtles in the RP- Slash and Tokka are villians that occasionally show up.


EDIT; Just forget about it, I don't want a conflict of any kind over a fictional character.

for petes sake RELAX...

man u guys are..jesus i dont believe how sensitiv.....

u know what...

no wonder Ciro left this site, MAN U GUYS ARE SOMETHING...

Hell here is his last quote:


im not coming here anymore, you guys are depressing.
get a sense of humor and start enjoying life.


THIS...this is what im talking about, some of you..[again some not all] scream ban ban ban troll troll troll and ruin the thread..and blame me and have the nerve to say delete this thread because u dont agree with a thought of mine... i hope u guys dont ruin this thread like how u did my last thread..atleast the Moderators have some sense of creativity when it comes to shelling out ones opinions and dont listen to alot of you, cause if u guys were in charge i wouldve been out a long time ago..Thank god the Mods from here arent from prosports daily...

i didnt mean to upset you at all threadstarter..and i am sorry if i did.. i never called u any horrible names [unlike the rest of you] or anything so chill..


in fact...u guys should be more like me if anything..


oh and by the way.........................


u didnt like my idea for Venus De Milo did you :P:P:P:P:P


hahahahaaaaaa!!!!


oh and by the way...im not going ANYWHERE..im staying RIGHT HERE..

[Stingray69]

Man it never ceases to amaze me the stupid stuff people can fight about.

O and venus as a robot kind of seem I dont know like a cop out. Like its been done before. Dont ask me why though.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Dude, chill, don't worry about it. I don't care, it's no big deal. I didn't ask this thread be deleted, I don't think you're a troll, I dont really like venus De milo, and I'm not upset at you one way or the other. I just thought your reaction was a bit harsh, escpecially considering I DON'T LIKE VENUS DEMILO. Your Venus robot idea is actually funny, if you read what I posted I really haven't spoken in favor of Venus once in this whole thread. O_o

[CyberCubed]

Everything from Next Mutation should stay buried.

If Nick wants to revive characters let them revive the original toon and Archie mutants we haven't seen in a while. At least people liked those characters to begin with.

[LivingMutagen]

Yes! Let's salvage her!


I actually liked her on Next Mutation. Maybe she could mutate from April or Spike? She should still have the shellboobs, but not be more powerful than the turtles. That's like Blaze being stronger than Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy.

Actually, this idea isn't good. Also Blaze could also beat Tails, Knuckles and Amy, not Sonic as they're equal

[alliance]

Everything from Next Mutation should stay buried.

If Nick wants to revive characters let them revive the original toon and Archie mutants we haven't seen in a while. At least people liked those characters to begin with.

ugh..as much as i hate to agree with this guy..............yup... :)

[Leo656]

It's not the concept itself of Venus I think is bad. I don't think a fifth Turtle OR a female Turtle is blasphemy, in and of itself. Frankly, I find some of the irrational hatred towards the concept a little annoying (though I'm the first to say the execution of the character was awful).

What made it sh*tty is that Next Mutation's Venus was just about the worst way to integrate the character into the mythology. From origin to execution, they seemed to go out of their way to make every bad decision possible to create a character almost no one would ever like.

It's not an awful idea to have a female Turtle; many, many female fans in the 80s and early 90s requested it repeatedly, and it's actually surprising it took so long for the creators to cave. Had we all known HOW the idea would eventually be done, well... "be careful what you wish for," etc.

I like the concept's potential, but to work it would have to be almost entirely different from what they did on the show. She shouldn't be a main character (though could add a lot as an occasional recurring character, if done properly), shouldn't be biologically related to the other TMNT, shouldn't have been in the bowl with them at their origin, shouldn't be more capable and skilled than the four main characters put together, shouldn't be constantly mixing up what things are called and talking like she's stupid, just to give a few examples.

I liked that they played up her mystic powers, in that it made her different. Problem is, they did it to the point where the other TMNT didn't even need to be there, Venus could just do it all herself. I'd keep the powers but tone it way down, maybe hinting that in the future she could eventually unlock her true potential as a mystic, or something like that. The trade-off being that she would be a poor physical combatant, at first, and would need to learn from the other Turtles to develop her physical skills.

I don't know how I'd do her origin, suffice to say it would be nothing like what they actually went with. She'd have to wear pink, for two reasons. First, Leo wears blue and having another Turtle wearing a slightly different shade of the same color is lazy and confusing. Second, and I know I'm gonna get heat for this, but pink is "the girl's color". For all the ranting and raving about how archaic that thinking is, a female turtle character would be created mostly to appeal to young girl TMNT fans, and scientific studies across a variety of mediums conclude that young girls prefer things that are pink. I say it is what it is, just embrace it.

I know the shell-breasts are annoying to some and appalling to many, but I think you almost have to allow that, too. Without the "curves", Venus would just resemble a shorter, skinnier Turtle. Wearing pink might be enough to identify her as "female", but I honestly never though her having "breasts" was the worst thing about the character. I could tell they were simply going for an easy way to identify her as a girl rather than a smaller Turtle. Implausible, sure, but whatever, it's a silly concept on its face to begin with.

There are no flat-out "bad" characters, just characters done poorly. Every idea has merit to it, but some have more or less than others. Not every idea is worth the trouble of making it work. But there's always a way.

[BubblyShell22]

I think what you've done with her character is pretty good, PKF. I think she could be salvaged and given a better backstory, which is what you did. There was a challenge on Stealthy Stories to do a story about Venus, and one author did it perfectly and changed a lot about her. So, it CAN be done. Would I like to see her on the Nick show? Just depends on how they introduce her and how they make her character fit within that universe.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Actually, the funny thing is when we had the first two girls join our RPG, we were all afraid one of them would want to do venus. (Niether wanted to be april) but they decided to play Ninjara and Mona Lisa, much to everyone's relief. Mona Lisa has actually become like a fifth turtle herself in the RP, she's taken up using a turtle grappling hook and her tail as weapons in the RP game, and has proven to be a capable fighter even without ninjitsu. Certainly nobody has a problem with those two on the team in Venus's place. XD

[alliance]

is venus in any of the Video games??

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

No, I don't think she is, actually. Probably a good thing, too. If I could avoid it, I wouldn't have her in my pen and paper D20 RPG game if I could avoid it.

By the way everyone, that's what I've been talking about here in this whole thread, my role playing game I run with my friends. Everyone else was talking about bringing her into the show or modern comics.

[Konchadunga]

My opinion is that Venus can keep her trademark humor of botching the English language and being unfamiliar with American culture, however, foreign isn't the same as "stupid;" she should not repeat the same mistakes. Shell boobs, I really don't care about either way; ask the player if she does. With regard to balancing her, I'd say give her serviceable hand to hand combat abilities, but no melee weapon to enhance them; instead she has spells, which are potent but limited in amount she can do in a certain amount of time.

I'd like to know, what characters currently exist in your campaign, and what system are you using?

[redsai4lex]

She could always be brought back as an evil ninja and get herself killed going after the TMNT :tlol:

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

My opinion is that Venus can keep her trademark humor of botching the English language and being unfamiliar with American culture, however, foreign isn't the same as "stupid;" she should not repeat the same mistakes. Shell boobs, I really don't care about either way; ask the player if she does. With regard to balancing her, I'd say give her serviceable hand to hand combat abilities, but no melee weapon to enhance them; instead she has spells, which are potent but limited in amount she can do in a certain amount of time.

I'd like to know, what characters currently exist in your campaign, and what system are you using?

I'm using a varation on the D20 system called true20, from a game called Mutants and Masterminds. No offense to the awesome guys at palladium, but it's actually easier to use a system designed for a superhero RPG to run a TMNT game, with all the weird robots, mutants, and aliens running around, even if the turtles aren't superoheroes.

When I wanted to do a campaigned in the tMNT world, my first four players wanted to play the turtles instead of building OC's to play- that was the point of doing a tmnt campaign, after all. I used the new IDW -verse as a loose continuity starting point, but quickly introduced chacters from all over the diffrent turtles continuities as villians and NPC allies. (Rocksteady, Bebop, the mutaninamls, Go Komodo/Dragonlord, Lotus Blossom, Casey, Armaggon, etc.)

When another friend of ours joined the campiagn, she wated to play a female mutant, and everybody was afraid of Venus, but I brought in Mona Lisa, and she became like a fifth turtle to the party-and it worked out really, really well. She brought a diffrent, non-ninja fighting style to the team, didn't overshine the turtles, created some good character interaction with Raph, and was a breath of fresh air. She didn't become a fifth turtle, she just hangs around the group a lot. Same when our Alopex/Ninjara player joined the group, felt like an ally/addition to the team rather than a mary-sue tack on.

Oh, and crisis averted with Venus-two of the other players finally convinced her to play A Kala stuck in the earth dimension just hours before our first session last night. Venus Dmilo crisis averted!:tlol:

[Vivi]

Maybe with boiling water and seasoning.

[CrazySquirrel]

It's too bad more casual people dont know about Ninjara. She is the best female companion in franchise history. (other than April of course) I wanted to post something negitive but the OP doing a TMNT RPG is too likeable to me. I will just say the white bandana is the best idea. Way better than like pink or another 'girly' color.

[Leo656]

I also wish Ninjara got more attention, but as a creator-owned character I think we've seen all we're gonna see of her for a while. I thought she was cool.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

It's too bad more casual people dont know about Ninjara. She is the best female companion in franchise history. (other than April of course) I wanted to post something negitive but the OP doing a TMNT RPG is too likeable to me. I will just say the white bandana is the best idea. Way better than like pink or another 'girly' color.

Thanks, I'm just glad she agreed to play Kala, and now I don't have to worry about Venus. :D

[jestermon]

I think your rpg people are a little too serious about this if there is a girl that wants anything to do with them they should let her do whatever.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Kala, huh? Cool, that would give Mikey's player some interesting interactions, I bet. Personally, I've got nothing AGAINST Venus as a concept- I just don't like the way she was brought in. I don't mind the "shel boobs", since it's really just the shape of her plastron and not actual boobs. Makes you wonder why it's like that, though.

I'd totally change her backstory, though. Maybe something like what Krang did with R&B, or Tokka/Rahzar, etc. Possibly even an accident with mutagen in Krang's lab while studying a turtle to learn their weaknesses. The turtle escapes (it turns out to be female) and hides in the sewers, where it is found by the guys and/or Splinter, and starts learning from them. As a beginner, she wouldn't overshadow them, and there would be plenty of room for character growth and development.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Good ideas, but Venus is better off staying dead.

[pannoni1]

I still haven't seen a "Way to salvage Scrappy" at the Scooby-Doo forums. But then again, half of all turtles in this world are female, and Venus at least makes it more equal. Would I would do instead is to have a human Mona Lisa purchase a female pet Turtle from the pet shop, who soon comes in contact with the mutagen. As Mona Lisa gets ready to mutate, she touches Venus before it mutates so that it gives its human feminine character. If it sounds a bit silly, Ninjara could have been the last to touch the pet Venus before it touches the ooze.

[shihe]

I still haven't seen a "Way to salvage Scrappy" at the Scooby-Doo forums. But then again, half of all turtles in this world are female, and Venus at least makes it more equal. Would I would do instead is to have a human Mona Lisa purchase a female pet Turtle from the pet shop, who soon comes in contact with the mutagen. As Mona Lisa gets ready to mutate, she touches Venus before it mutates so that it gives its human feminine character. If it sounds a bit silly, Ninjara could have been the last to touch the pet Venus before it touches the ooze.

Question.

If the Mutagen turns a living creature into a mutation in between said creature and the creature it last touched...

Then having a human touch a turtle cause in fact TWO Mutant Turtle characters to be formed? (One for the person, and another mutation for the turtle)

[Metalwolf]

I was thinking that maybe have her be an ordinary Turtle (no human origin) that is a pet of April's, and who gets taken by Shredder to be mutated and used against the Turtles. She does become conflicted at times when April is around, due to her having some good memories of April (having been her pet and all.) This emotional turmoil is made worse knowing April is aligned with the Turtles, who Venus was indoctrinated by Shredder to consider her worst enemies.

She is aligned with and is loyal to the Shredder, and she has some skill with the Chi magic stuff. She wears a black bandana and arm/knee pads and has those Chinese bladed fans as weapons. She has shellboobs, but she has no hair and is just a touch smaller then the male Turtles.

That's my take on a 'new' Venus :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That's similar to what I had in mind (see above post) but I like this better! A female "Slash"? Nice.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

See, now I think a female turtle can work (Slash, Tokka and the never-realized Kirby never upset the fanbase too much) just make her not a ninja, and an ally character instead of a member of the family, and I think it'd work.

[Luckyday]

I have a crazy idea. Why not give her a different origin that has no relation to the day when the main four were mutated (other then the fact that she is mutant like other mutant before her like Bebop and Rocksteady ) and instead make her a recurring character like Slash instead of a gimmicky fifth ninja turtle. In fact, don't even make her a shinobi. Give her a shaolin background since she's Chinese. Hey, better yet. Make her a teenage mutant shaolin sea-turtle.

Okay, I'm done now.

[CyberCubed]

Can we just let this character die and be forgotten already? The entire Next mutation series is the absolute low point of the TMNT franchise and an abomination.

Let's let this failure series and everything in it fall back into obscurity where it belongs.

[Jester]

I dunna. As much as I loath the series, I do like Mikey as a pirate radio DJ.

[Wildcat]

My origin for her would be either, experiments on animals and the turtles meet up with her one day or ooze from the sewer washes out to shore and comes in contact with a female turtle. Maybe she chooses shinobi on her own.

I finished watching Next Mutation and I agree its the weakest version but its not a horrible abomination. Alot of fans highly exaggerate this. Its just extremely generic. I wonder if I would have liked it as a kid though.

Venus was the best part actually. She wasn't overly goofy, she brought a new fighting style and a 5th turtle is at least an interesting idea.

[dkram230]

I still haven't seen a "Way to salvage Scrappy" at the Scooby-Doo forums. But then again, half of all turtles in this world are female, and Venus at least makes it more equal. Would I would do instead is to have a human Mona Lisa purchase a female pet Turtle from the pet shop, who soon comes in contact with the mutagen. As Mona Lisa gets ready to mutate, she touches Venus before it mutates so that it gives its human feminine character. If it sounds a bit silly, Ninjara could have been the last to touch the pet Venus before it touches the ooze.

The first live action Scooby Doo movie actually did a good job of salvaging Scrappy by **spoiler alert** turning him into the bad guy who only appears at the end of the movie. And his back story showed how he was actually just as annoying to the group as he was to that SD viewers back in the day.

Can we just let this character die and be forgotten already? The entire Next mutation series is the absolute low point of the TMNT franchise and an abomination.

Let's let this failure series and everything in it fall back into obscurity where it belongs.

I agree 100%!!!!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Not ALL of it was bad. Mikey's pirate radio show and the yeti mobster were actually kind of cool, and at least fit with other aspects of the franchise.

[Foot Soldier Clang]

I dunna. As much as I loath the series, I do like Mikey as a pirate radio DJ.

Yeah the series had a few nice quirky ideas, but was still a let down.

And I was thinking, if the biggest issue is Venus being a turtle, then wouldn't making her not a turtle fix the character? If I'm not mistaken, a human Venus appeared as a decal in one of the new pieces Nick TMNT merchandise. You could keep her as a mystic/magic user ninja, without the controversy of her original incarnation. She doesn't add to the dynamic of the turtles, but TMNT as a whole could use more female heroes.

[ryukenden]

Venus being a total Mary Sue is mainly the reason why she gets ire from the fans. If Viacom ever does plan on bringing her in, they would have to pay Saban since he owns the character.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Actually, the funny thing is when we had the first two girls join our RPG, we were all afraid one of them would want to do venus. (Niether wanted to be april) but they decided to play Ninjara and Mona Lisa, much to everyone's relief. Mona Lisa has actually become like a fifth turtle herself in the RP, she's taken up using a turtle grappling hook and her tail as weapons in the RP game, and has proven to be a capable fighter even without ninjitsu. Certainly nobody has a problem with those two on the team in Venus's place. XD

Both Mona Lisa and Ninjara are good (even if Ninjara maybe hung out with the turtles a little too long).

[Prowler]

By not ever creating her in the first place.

Seriously, the TMNT were originally 4. Adding another one out of the blue was just plain and simply wrong on so many levels. If you want another mutant turtle then just use Slash or Tokka. Don't make them related to the TMNT at all though, obviously.

[turtle1237]

Can we just let this character die and be forgotten already? The entire Next mutation series is the absolute low point of the TMNT franchise and an abomination.

Let's let this failure series and everything in it fall back into obscurity where it belongs.

Well the whole series was put out on DVD, so it wont just stay dead. Its like that vampire or zombie that keeps coming back, Was at Walmark a few months or so ago and saw the dvd, and I was like did this really earn a dvd release?

[Powder]

I have a crazy idea. Why not give her a different origin that has no relation to the day when the main four were mutated (other then the fact that she is mutant like other mutant before her like Bebop and Rocksteady ) and instead make her a recurring character like Slash instead of a gimmicky fifth ninja turtle. In fact, don't even make her a shinobi. Give her a shaolin background since she's Chinese. Hey, better yet. Make her a teenage mutant shaolin sea-turtle.

Okay, I'm done now.

Not gonna lie, I kinda like this idea. A Shaolin sea turtle would be neat, whether it's Venus or not.

[Luckyday]

Not gonna lie, I kinda like this idea. A Shaolin sea turtle would be neat, whether it's Venus or not.

It's also a crazy tongue twister. Try to say that three times fast.

[CyberCubed]

Well the whole series was put out on DVD, so it wont just stay dead. Its like that vampire or zombie that keeps coming back, Was at Walmark a few months or so ago and saw the dvd, and I was like did this really earn a dvd release?

Shout got the license to it when they released all of Power Rangers. So they might as well make some money off it. That's the only reason it got a DVD release.

[Shark_Blade]

Why salvage something that's been perfectly buried all these years?

[miru]

Why salvage something that's been perfectly buried all these years?

If you're going by that, why salvage Mutagen Man?

[Shark_Blade]

Because he's actually interesting?

[Avatar Yuffie]

I have a crazy idea. Why not give her a different origin that has no relation to the day when the main four were mutated (other then the fact that she is mutant like other mutant before her like Bebop and Rocksteady ) and instead make her a recurring character like Slash instead of a gimmicky fifth ninja turtle. In fact, don't even make her a shinobi. Give her a shaolin background since she's Chinese. Hey, better yet. Make her a teenage mutant shaolin sea-turtle.

Okay, I'm done now.

That is a good idea.

Heck make her non-earthling. She could came from Usagi's world or something.

[Technogeek29]

That is a good idea.

Heck make her non-earthling. She could came from Usagi's world or something.

I could see that working, and at least a romance wouldn't be forced like it was in TNM.

[miru]

Because he's actually interesting?

Oh, that. A better example would be Vernon Fenwick or Monty Moose.

[wyze2099]

I've always thought that the idea of a female Turtle was potentially better than TNM's execution of it. And I'm a firm believer that there are no bad characters, just poor approaches to characters. So I've often thought about how the concept itself could've been worked into an interesting character.

The Shaolin origin and the Usagiverse origin are both great ideas. But really, a lot of the ideas in this thread about improving and/or reimagining the character are pretty neat.

I had this idea for an "Ultimate Ninja Turtles" (years before IDW's comic series did their own Ultimate take) interpretation of Venus. Basically, it involved the Foot Mystics. They were under orders to lure the Turtles into a trap somehow, so they devised a way to prey on the Turtles by planting the idea that there might be a fifth Turtle somewhere who was mutated before being separated from them. Knowing that the illusion would require physical substance in order to be sufficiently believed, one of the Mystics -- a woman named Mei Peih Chi or some variation -- volunteered to act out the part of the fifth Turtle. Not only did her loyalty to the Foot mean that she was perfectly willing to die in the trap being sprung on the Turtles, she turned out to be a relative of Tang Shen (who, let's face it, never got much definition about who she was or what if anything she had to do with the Foot besides becoming the focal point of a feud between two suitors). She was led to believe that Tang Shen was murdered by Hamato Yoshi, so she was interested in striking at Yoshi's family. And just to make sure the Turtles and Splinter believed her, she had her memories altered to believe what she was telling them, along with an impetus to lead them to the place where she'd been living. But something went wrong with the illusion magic during the ambush, and Mei ended up with the illusion and false memories being permanently applied. And the Turtles and Splinter survive the ambush and ensure her survival as well. Once the truth comes out, Mei discovers that any memories of her true life are cloudy at best, and even knowing who she really is can't seem to pierce the illusion or the perception of herself. Which means she's now an outcast from the Foot, and she has nowhere else to turn but the Turtles, Splinter, and April. This leads to a lot of uncertainty in the character that would be interesting to explore: who is she really? What kind of identity does she forge for herself?

I doubt she would have been called Venus De Milo, because I always thought that nickname was insulting: the other Turtles are named after the Renaissance artists themselves, but she's stuck being named after one of the artist's works? That's practically admitting that she's just there to be an object, not a person in her own right.

[wyze2099]

Oh, I just remembered another idea I once had:

It was for a 'What If' story about Venus being raised with her brothers; I was fascinated by the idea of how differently she might have developed with Splinter and the other four as influences in her life. It's been years, but if memory serves, I pictured her wearing a white bandanna (I always thought the fact that she braided it was a nice touch, but that's just me). Also, her name was neither Mei Pieh Chi nor Venus De Milo, because Splinter would have kept his naming convention and named her after a Renaissance artist. She would've been given a male name, because Splinter would've had no way of knowing at the time that she was female; that particular development would've only really become obvious as time went on. I think I settled on Caravaggio; she went by "Cara".

In terms of personality, she would've been more of a tomboy than she was in TNM, due to her upbringing. She would've had an interest in religions, including but not limited to Eastern ones; while her skill as a mystic was due to being raised by Chung-I in TNM, her mystical side was one of the more interesting aspects of the character. She still would have a her own niche amongst the Turtles, in that Leo's focus is more on the techniques and scholarly aspects of ninjutsu, Don has his scientific/practical view of the world, Raph is interested in the fighting, and Mikey is interested in entertainment and having fun, but Cara would be the only one interested in the spiritual aspects of what Splinter teaches. So she'd still be a foil for the other Turtles, but she wouldn't be as much of an outsider.

And her interest in the nature of beliefs and religion would make her sensitive to other people's motivations; if she weaponized that knack, she could not only be particularly adept at meditation, but she could also be the first one to think, "okay, this guy is a complete zealot and can't be reasoned with, but this henchman over here could be talked out of this fight or bribed to look the other way." Giving her a tactical perspective that would be different than what the other four Turtles would come up with.

Oh, and her weapon could be a tessen or a naginata. I figure the Turtles wouldn't have started training in a signature weapon until long after Cara was revealed to be female, so she might have ended up with a feminine-seeming weapon. But that would owe more to her build than any actual sexism (she wouldn't have the breast shapes in her plastron, but what little femininity she might have could be visually conveyed by her hips and the way she moves).

[Shark_Blade]

Oh, that. A better example would be Vernon Fenwick or Monty Moose.
Vernon's already in the movie, sweet cheeks. :tcool: I don't even know who Monty Moose is so he can stay buried.