If Power Rangers never came to the U.S., would TMNT have lasted longer?

[CyberCubed]

We all know the real reason the TMNT cartoon lost its popularity was simply due to the huge explosion in Power Rangers popularity back in 1992. Power Rangers took (stole?) a chunk of the TMNT fanbase as well as younger kids who would have gotten into TMNT had Power Rangers not existed.

If Power Rangers never came to the U.S., would the original cartoon have lasted a bit longer? Remember TMNT was also competing against Batman: TAS, as well as the Spiderman and X-men cartoons at the time as well.

[Matches Malone]

Competing against Batman and Spider-man means that they were already losing steam, otherwise Batman and Spider-man would have been imitating TMNT's tone and style, not the other way around. Fads come and go. While Pokemon's longevity is astounding, there's no denying its peak popularity definitely ended at some point and simply continued to chug along. If Power Rangers hadn't come along or became popular, something else would have, because that's what businesses do: find new fads to make money off of.

[Garfield]

We all know the real reason the TMNT cartoon lost its popularity was simply due to the huge explosion in Power Rangers popularity back in 1992. Power Rangers took (stole?) a chunk of the TMNT fanbase as well as younger kids who would have gotten into TMNT had Power Rangers not existed.



Don't say this like you know it to be true. Because its very arguable.

For one thing, Power Rangers came out late 1993.

Back in 1992 I remember the other children moving on from TMNT and getting into X-men. Now I wont say X-men "stole" from viewers from TMNT, as its so much more complex than that, and it down plays the reality of it.

But I will say...as a guy that still loves TMNT. In the late 80's early 90's, TMNT was a fad. And fads die off a little when the excitement is gone or when its no longer in vogue. People get burnt out from it or they hop off the bandwagon and move on.

I don't think Power Rangers had as much to do with the decrease of the popularity of Ninja Turtles as some people think it did.

[Nameless]

ummm no and yes.

I think the cartoon just ran it course and therefore power rangers had little effect on it. only way i can think that it might have affected the cartoon is that it took time slots on saturday to play it.

However if power rangers weren't here maybe Bandai would have created a better next mutation show and it wouldn't have been canceled after a single season. if the next mutation had fight sequences like they had in the crossover episode it would have been a lot better.

[CyberCubed]

The show still ran on much longer than anyone expected.

If the OT was going to end when the fad died, it would have ended with Season 5. Instead it goes on 5 more seasons after that.

[Jester]

Turtles was on the decline more because it tried to compete Batman:TAS's dark tone than because of Power Rangers.

[CyberCubed]

Turtles was on the decline more because it tried to compete Batman:TAS's dark tone than because of Power Rangers.

But I imagine all those little kids who watched Power Rangers would have tuned into Turtles instead.

I always figured the "8 episode seasons" were because they didn't have the budget at the time to do a full season.

[The Sewer Lord]

Turtles was on the decline more because it tried to compete Batman:TAS's dark tone than because of Power Rangers.

Other shows were also popular - Hulk: TAS, X-Men: TAS, Spider-man: TAS...
Back in those days, lot was going on in the Marvel comics. Still, people bought DC more with the Death of Superman, his return, Zero Hour, Emerald Twilight... Marvel wasn't much of a competion.
I figured that Marvel noticed this and proceed to hit the children with cartoons. This had a hand in the fall of TMNT.
So, I guess it's DC fault TMNT wasn't as popular in the '90s. :x

[ninjafowlkes8705]

We all know the real reason the TMNT cartoon lost its popularity was simply due to the huge explosion in Power Rangers popularity back in 1992. Power Rangers took (stole?) a chunk of the TMNT fanbase as well as younger kids who would have gotten into TMNT had Power Rangers not existed.

If Power Rangers never came to the U.S., would the original cartoon have lasted a bit longer? Remember TMNT was also competing against Batman: TAS, as well as the Spiderman and X-men cartoons at the time as well.

Don't say this like you know it to be true. Because its very arguable.

For one thing, Power Rangers came out late 1993.

Back in 1992 I remember the other children moving on from TMNT and getting into X-men. Now I wont say X-men "stole" from viewers from TMNT, as its so much more complex than that, and it down plays the reality of it.

But I will say...as a guy that still loves TMNT. In the late 80's early 90's, TMNT was a fad. And fads die off a little when the excitement is gone or when its no longer in vogue. People get burnt out from it or they hop off the bandwagon and move on.

I don't think Power Rangers had as much to do with the decrease of the popularity of Ninja Turtles as some people think it did.

ummm no and yes.

I think the cartoon just ran it course and therefore power rangers had little effect on it. only way i can think that it might have affected the cartoon is that it took time slots on saturday to play it.

However if power rangers weren't here maybe Bandai would have created a better next mutation show and it wouldn't have been canceled after a single season. if the next mutation had fight sequences like they had in the crossover episode it would have been a lot better.

Competing against Batman and Spider-man means that they were already losing steam, otherwise Batman and Spider-man would have been imitating TMNT's tone and style, not the other way around. Fads come and go. While Pokemon's longevity is astounding, there's no denying its peak popularity definitely ended at some point and simply continued to chug along. If Power Rangers hadn't come along or became popular, something else would have, because that's what businesses do: find new fads to make money off of.


power rangers came to foxkids 1993 the TMNT ERA STARTED TO FADE AWAY kids was getting into other fads like sports and saban made a live action martial arts television show for kids foxkids started become popular in 1993 bosted up the television ratings kids

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I can't speak for everyone, but i know for me Power Rangers never took me away from Turtles, that was around 3rd grade for me..i watched and loved both equally and a lot of my friends did to, when it came to playing with toys we usually crossed them over a lot.


but really i don't remember turtles even being in the limelight around the time PR came around...turtles 3 had just hit home movies and power rangers was airing before school..SPiderman and Xmen where my other go to shows

[Vi11AiN6]

I don't think that's the case usually around 8th to 10th season a show becomes tired, it happens. I think the show needed a reboot and for everyone to take a break from the TMNT for awhile.

I watched the first 4 episodes and then the last 4, it was such a different show! Darker, the whole Carter/ Turtles Hulk mutation thing was just strange and it needed to end.

[joefsas]

Even as a kid i thought Power Rangers sucked big time!. I think i just prefered cartoons, Bucky O'hare, Captain planet, Bike mice from mars etc

[Candy Kappa]

Technically Power Rangers came to the US in the 70's with the English dubbed Super Sentai show.

But for the topic, MMPR wasn't alone on declining TMNT, here in Norway I think Biker Mice from Mars took a lot of TMNT's steam when they aired as well as Spider-Man, Batman and Action Man (Toys-wise)

[alliance]

when youre on the air for that damn long its only a matter of time before people get interested in other things for whatever reason.. the 90's also had great cartoons and other tv options that were awesome..

[MrPliggins]

In my area it was earlier than that, around 1990, when the Disney Afternoon came around and pushed TMNT from 4pm after school to 8am while I was at school. That's when I discovered the magic of "time-taping". Although I must admit, I did enjoy some of those Disney shows.

[ZariusTwo]

Sonic Satam probably would have survived if PR hadnt come over...:cry:

Also, we probably wouldnt have gotten Lord Dregg, since he was largely meant to be TMNT's answer to PR's Lord Zedd.

[oldmanwinters]

Turtles was on the decline more because it tried to compete Batman:TAS's dark tone than because of Power Rangers.

FOX Kids Saturday Morning lineup > CBS ActionZone Saturday Morning lineup
(for a 10ish-year-old such as myself, anyway)

[Xav]

Ninja Turtles ended because CBS was required by law to air more educational programing, so TMNT would have ended regardless if Power Rangers came along or not.

[oldmanwinters]

Ninja Turtles ended because CBS was required by law to air more educational programing, so TMNT would have ended regardless if Power Rangers came along or not.

Man, you'd think that Turtle Tips would have been enough to appease those darn national broadcasting standards! :tlol:

[Refractive Reflections]

This is a small technicality but Wikipedia says PR (Power Rangers) premiered in August 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Power_Rangers_episodes). But anyways...

As some have said earlier, even if Power Rangers wasn't imported to the U.S. the other darker cartoons like X-men, and Batman: The Animated Series would have still attracted the youth's attention.

When TMNT began in the late 80s, most cartoons were comedy-focused and TMNT was seen as something a little edgier from most other slapstick, silly cartoons at that time. Even then the soccer mom's considered the violence in the OT too much and is one reason why Michelangelo's nunchucks were removed (besides also European censorship), since kids were making their own and hurting themselves.

As time progressed into the early 90s, it seems as if more violent, darker toned cartoons were more accepted. This is a time also when video games were becoming progressively more violent (i.e. Mortal Kombat in 1990), and even the pop music scene was becoming darker/drearier with grunge and gangsta rap as it pulled away from the brightly colored sounds of 80s synthpop. In my eyes, it just seemed like the 90s was a cultural shift into more extreme angst and violence, and the cool/trendy cartoons of that time seemed to reflect that (within the confines of children's censorship) since the teenage/adult demographic was leaning toward it to. This shift is so dramatic, shows like Batman:TAS and X-Men, probably wouldn't have even been considered as kids' shows in the early 80s because of their darker storytelling.

...So anyways back to TMNT, :P. I mean the OT tried with the Red Sky seasons, and it was good itself, but it just didn't quite hit the mark since it borrow more elements from those newer shows rather than having its own unique spin on things on adapting with the times. In addition, it just seemed like the addition of Dregg (an imitation of sorts of PR's Zedd) seemed to indicate the OT was running on fumes.

Plus you also have to consider how bad the TMNT merchandising was (i.e. remember those horrible farming, party characters, and career versions of the TMNT action figures?) and the poor reception to TMNT III the film; which only hurt the franchise's "coolness" factor by making anything ninja a parody.

Ninja Turtles ended because CBS was required by law to air more educational programing, so TMNT would have ended regardless if Power Rangers came along or not.
That is true, but I'm sure if the ratings were substantially high CBS would have done something since FOX and ABC still had "non-educational" cartoons. But yeah, CBS seems to have had a clean slate of removing nearly all of their cartoons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_United_States_network_television_s chedule_%28Saturday_morning%29) because of it and having the CBS Saturday Morning news (that's because news "satisfies" the educational requirements of Saturday morning, pfft, whatever... as if kids are gonna watch that. :lol:).




So to conclude all that I'm trying to say, you can't really say one factor (Power Rangers) is responsible, there were many: 1) Darker themed cartoons (X-men, Batman:TAS), 2) Changing teenager/adult 90s cultural attitudes which thus influenced cartoons in a downstream effect (since kids want to emulate the "cool" adults and teens), 3) the TMNT franchise being a parody of itself with horrible merchandising and the bad TMNT 3 film, 4) the Children's Television Act mandating educational programming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Television_Act) with stricter enforcement in 1996, and 5) Red Sky plots (especially by season 9) that borrowed too many elements from other trendier cartoons.

Sadly I felt, the OT never had a proper ending. :( I heard rumors though that there were plot ideas for an 11th season to make it a series finale season (any of you know about that?), but of course that was extinguished with the strict enforcement of Children's Television Act and low ratings. Or that there was a planned OT finale animated movie for 1997, but that was scrapped. (Anybody know of that either? :-?)

[Foot Soldier Clang]

We all know the real reason the TMNT cartoon lost its popularity was simply due to the huge explosion in Power Rangers popularity back in 1992. Power Rangers took (stole?) a chunk of the TMNT fanbase as well as younger kids who would have gotten into TMNT had Power Rangers not existed.

If Power Rangers never came to the U.S., would the original cartoon have lasted a bit longer? Remember TMNT was also competing against Batman: TAS, as well as the Spiderman and X-men cartoons at the time as well.

Man that was a great time for cartoons on television :lol:

I think TMNT was running on fumes by the time PR hit the scene. I still enjoyed TMNT, but even I started focusing more on PR when it first premiered. If anything I think Power Rangers, X-Men, Batman, Exo Squad and the rest helped TMNT to a certain degree because it gave us the Red Sky seasons (which I really enjoyed). I guess if it wasn't PR it would have been something else. Maybe if Pokemon, Digimon and the rest of that monster-fighting-craze had premiered in the US first instead of PR we would have had a very different catalyst for the last few seasons of the series.

[Prowler]

If it hadn't been the Power Rangers, it would have been something else. Nothing lasts forever, and when the audience starts losing interest in a show they'll switch to another, since there are plenty of alternatives.

Plus, TMNT ended in 1996. That's 4 years after the Power Rangers became popular, so it's not really fair to say that they there the main reason that the Turtles lost popularity and that show eventually got cancelled.

[Shred87]

I think that cartoon had just run its course.... Lets face it the ot is what most fans first contact with the turtles is. As these fans grew older you look to more mature more series brands.

Combine this fact with the third movie flopping; it set the franchise back in a similar way the Batman & Robin movie sunk the Batman franchise. And lets be honest the ot's influence on the 2nd and third movie in terms of tone caused those movies to fall short. The material simply didnt keep up with its aging fanbase.

[ZariusTwo]

Plus, TMNT ended in 1996. That's 4 years after the Power Rangers became popular, so it's not really fair to say that they there the main reason that the Turtles lost popularity and that show eventually got cancelled.

Yep, PR itself was dropping in the ratings by 1996, plus it's MMPR days were long behind it and it had become Power Rangers Zeo, which, while servicable and a popular season with fans, wasnt a steller hit with a more vital fresh audience. PR's ratings wouldnt stabalise until the second half of Power Rangers Turbo and finally regain peak levels with 1998's Power Rangers In Space

Sadly I felt, the OT never had a proper ending. :( I heard rumors though that there were plot ideas for an 11th season to make it a series finale season (any of you know about that?), but of course that was extinguished with the strict enforcement of Children's Television Act and low ratings. Or that there was a planned OT finale animated movie for 1997, but that was scrapped. (Anybody know of that either? :-?)

Where'd you hear this? First time I've heard this rumor come about.

[Shred87]

^^^^^ yes please give more informatiom

[CyberCubed]

Pretty sure they knew Season 10 would be the last season. There were never any plans for anything after.

[Refractive Reflections]

Where'd you hear this? First time I've heard this rumor come about.

^^^^^ yes please give more informatiom

Well, :D take these with a grain of salt, but there have been a few hints of this over the internet as I searched around:

1) I was going through YouTube and came across a conversation for the episode "Divide and Conquer" Part 3 and some user named "NukeMASTAR" said:
"The makers maybe didnt know this would be the overall last episode, i heard a rumor that there was supposed to be a season 11 with krang and shredder returning as more serious villains to end the show with everybody it started with"

Another person asks where he/she found this information, and then NukeMastar said:
"Someone on the Technodrome forum mentioned it to me."

Take that for what it's worth on a YouTube person's word. :lol::lol:
Obviously, I don't want to put up the YouTube link to prevent these forums from getting in trouble, but if you search hard enough, you'll find it.

EDIT (7/5/2013): Okay, so I found the thread and post for this Technodrome user that stated this: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=733654&postcount=49
It's too bad this user isn't active, then we could have tried to find where he/she found this information for validation.

2) Interestingly out of all people :lol:, Andrew NDB's website, mentions that an animated 1997 movie was considered if you look at under "Future of the Cartoon" :

"Though the cartoon ended in 1995, a theatrical TMNT animated film was scheduled to be released in December of 1997 (right alongside the premiere of Ninja Turtles IV, which had been scheduled for release "Christmas 1997" at that point). When nothing came of that, I queried Molly Bode of Mirage Studios, and she replied: "We were hoping to come out with an animated holiday special but plans have been scraped.""

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/tmnt/tcartoon.html#1987


3) In a Renae Jacobs interview on YouTube, she says that specials, or an animated movie after the end of the series was considered:

Listen at 11:20-12:28, especially pay attention to 12:16.
V9LR_dewQtA

"I'm not sure if Jeffery Scott knew that it was going to be the last episode, we never had a chance to meet him, and so, we all hoped, we all talked about specials, animated movies. There were other things that were talked about, but unfortunately, they never materialized." - Renae Jacobs in the YouTube clip at 12:16

4) In Michele Ivey's interview with Bill Wolf, she asks if he would have liked anything come out of the cartoon that the staff wasn't able to do:

Listen at 19:51:
zjVJe0iE8g0

"...not really, maybe a feature... I wonder if we could have made an animated feature." - Bill Wolf
He then says he spoke with a post-production manager and joked about making a Bebop and Rocksteady spinoff comedy show of sorts, but of course they wouldn't know how it would last for several episodes.

...So it seems there could have been a few pre-production ideas of an animated special, or an animated movie, and that the staff wasn't completely done with the OT at 1996's series finale; as for an 11th season... :ohwell: that's a bigger stretch though, but of course none of these things happened. Though it would be nice to see how the staff wanted to properly end the series from a story writing perspective.

[ZariusTwo]

That's interesting, so we were close to a Christmas special of some kind before the axe fell huh? Shame, it's the one thing TMNT always lacked.

[Jester]

That's interesting, so we were close to a Christmas special of some kind before the axe fell huh? Shame, it's the one thing TMNT always lacked.
But.....
lZuuvkrgg7w

[InsaneZane]

That's interesting, so we were close to a Christmas special of some kind before the axe fell huh? Shame, it's the one thing TMNT always lacked.

What about "The Christmas Aliens"? I watch it every year now

[Refractive Reflections]

That's interesting, so we were close to a Christmas special of some kind before the axe fell huh? Shame, it's the one thing TMNT always lacked.

From the way I'm processing it, combining Andrew's NDB info and Renae Jacob's interview, I think it was probably planned to be a "finale" animated movie for the OT (with the series already being cancelled) rather than a "Christmas special" of sorts. (Otherwise if it was just a "Christmas special", I figured it would have been more profitable to have already milked that during the height of TurtleMania.) Where the finale movie was to be released during Christmas (similar to how the 1st season, and previous season finales were shown near Christmastime when kids were out of school), to have good ticket sales and coordinate in reviving the dismal, whatever was left, TMNT merchandise sales.

...But that's just me. :ohwell: ...Or maybe it's wishful thinking. :P

It seemed from Renae Jacob's interview that there was more than one project considered, with the use of plural words. So there could have been a Christmas special and a finale...possibly...? Who knows...

[pannoni1]

I was aware of TMNT's decline (Movie III) before I was aware of MMPR's rise. The momentum was fading and the vibe felt darker than just a couple years prior (this was in 1993). The knockoffs (Biker Mice, Samurai, Battletoads) helped to water down the concept, plus some poor marketing/releases by Playmates thanks to too many bad Turtle variations, a lack of new playsets/vehicles, and other factors such as the poor Getting Down in Your Town tour were many that lead to its decline, along with kids' desires that they want to explore more of the world. Unlike adults who tend to be more loyal to series, kids/teens have a fickle mind and like to mingle with other brands; hence this is why many cartoons don't have long runs compared to primetime and daytime TV.

Actually, if Power Rangers never came to the U.S., TMNT would have lasted shorter: No Next Mutation/crossover! It thankfully shortened the gap to 5 years instead of seven (or for me, nine since I was unaware of the final two seasons). Sure, that series had flaws, but it did keep audiences that the Turtles were trying to keep their brand alive, especially to follow up on the movies.

[ZariusTwo]

But.....
lZuuvkrgg7w

One I blocked from all conscious thought (that) and another I forgot existed (4kids). Gah.

I should have said "something FW always lacked"

[gobo]

If Power Rangers never came to the U.S., would TMNT have lasted longer?
Nope. FWF just wasn't that competent.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Maybe a year or two, but of course, something other would still come after that...

[mikey0]

If MMPR never came to the US, then the popularity of Batman TAS, X-Men, Samurai Warriors, or Biker Mice From Mars would have taken away from TMNT. Some (if not most) children of the 80s (like my cousin) were done with the FW cartoon TMNT in late 1990 or 1991, whereas children of the 90s (Millennials) grew tired of the FW cartoon version of TMNT in 1992 or 1993. The diehard TMNT fans kept the series afloat from 1992 to 1996 or 1997 (for fans who watched repeats of the final season episodes).