TMNT 2007 Behind The Scenes with Peter Laird

[MikLeo]

Some things I found interesting/weird/wtf:
◦Mr. Laird suggested Mikey be the Nightwatcher instead of Raph, and that Raph should be the one doing the birthday parties!
◦Raph was supposed to develop a friendship with an elderly man named Joe who worked at the museum as well as Joe’s 10-year old granddaughter, Bella.
◦Raph doesn’t start out the movie as the Nightwatcher, but grows “closer and closer to solo-heroism.”
◦The Leo vs. Raph fight was there from the beginning, but with a slightly different outcome. Mr. Laird suggests that Leo would’ve known instantly that the Nightwatcher was Raph based on Raph’s body shape and movements.
◦Raph is revealed as some sort of Macguffin because he apparently has “the heart of the warrior” that is needed to complete some crazy ass ritual…
◦RAPH IS ****ING KILLED.
◦…then brought back to life by a magical exo-skeleton suit thing which makes him like a “half-Turtle, half-Terminator.”

The original script, from what Mr. Laird posted, seems to really push Raph as the main hero. There’s also no mention of Casey or April, or even the Foot Clan. I personally think the Casey/Raph bits were some of the best parts of the movie, so I’m very happy they changed the script

[Jester]

So...which of the blog posts about the 2007 Imagi movie are you referencing?

EDIT: Peter Laird sums up my thoughts on this film in one sentence:
Again, while visually intriguing, it seems like a bunch of disparate elements mushed together for no particular reason. (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/blast-from-past-649-january-6-2005-pl.html)

EDIT again: As you said, Peter (and I think every fan really) thought Leo would recognize Night watcher as Raph:
There are some neat visuals in these scenes, but not a whole lot of logic. I think Leo would know right away, just through body shape and movements, that "Nightwatcher" is Raph.
Heck, even numbskull Casey Jones figured it out... I think there's a fan explanation that Leo knew but acted like he didn't...which itself seems odd.

Further EDIT: Man from reading this thing, the first treatment of the story SUCKED...like hard.

[Slap-Happy]

I kind of hate how Laird picks apart every minute detail in these treatments. He needs to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.

[Galactus]

I kind of hate how Laird picks apart every minute detail in these treatments. He needs to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.

From what we're reading I'd say we should have been glad we had him to do this.

[Jester]

^ that.

This treatment sounds pretty awful...and that's saying something considering how disjointed the final film was.

[CyberCubed]

I kind of hate how Laird picks apart every minute detail in these treatments. He needs to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.

No, you should WANT Peter Laird to pick apart a movie script. If he was in charge of the upcoming movie we wouldn't see garbage like alien Turtles or Colonel white Shredder even being considered.

Its a damn shame Peter Laird has nothing to do with the upcoming movie, he could have possibly helped salvage it.

[Cure]

I kind of hate how Laird picks apart every minute detail in these treatments. He needs to give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.

Agreed. Thank God he isn't around for the new movie.

[Jester]

No, you should WANT Peter Laird to pick apart a movie script. If he was in charge of the upcoming movie we wouldn't see garbage like alien Turtles or Colonel white Shredder even being considered.

Its a damn shame Peter Laird has nothing to do with the upcoming movie, he could have possibly helped salvage it.
Um....well....considering I see a lot of this stuff still making it into TMNT, if just heavily reworked, I don't think Laird would have been much of a help as you think.

[CyberCubed]

Um....well....considering I see a lot of this stuff still making it into TMNT, if just heavily reworked, I don't think Laird would have been much of a help as you think.

He would have rejected what they planned to do with the Turtles and Shredder from day one. That alone is why he should have been on the movie.

If you recall back in 2009 or so when he originally got a movie deal he WAS working with the scriptwriters back then. Its only after the sale to Nick that he stopped.

[Galactus]

Agreed. Thank God he isn't around for the new movie.

I wonder next year if we end up up getting a yellow skinned alien with spikes and heavy focus on Vernon if people will think back and wish that someone at least tried to point out how stupid it all is.

[Jester]

If you recall back in 2009 or so when he originally got a movie deal he WAS working with the scriptwriters back then. Its only after the sale to Nick that he stopped.
And from there the new script was penned and a new direction was taken...what's your point?

[Slap-Happy]

For all we know, it was his input that made this treatment a thing. We really don't know anything here.

[sgtfbomb]

The original ideas sound terrible, but while the film we got was better, it wasn't that much better. The Casey/Raph and the Splinter scenes are just about the only scenes I like. The movie comes across as a lame-brained, wannabe screenplay written by a naive fan, with terrible dialogue and a silly plot. The worst part of the film is Karai's line towards the end hinting at Shredder, coming across as some half-arsed attempt at being cryptic and obvious at the same time.

[Galactus]

The worst part of the film is Karai's line towards the end hinting at Shredder, coming across as some half-arsed attempt at being cryptic and obvious at the same time.

To be fair it didn't strike me as any more heavy handed while also attempting to come off as cryptic than Jim Gordon handing a Joker card to Batman at the end of Batman Begins. In fact probably less so and I that worked effectively to hype people for the Joker.

[sgtfbomb]

To be fair it didn't strike me as any more heavy handed while also attempting to come off as cryptic than Jim Gordon handing a Joker card to Batman at the end of Batman Begins. In fact probably less so and I that worked effectively to hype people for the Joker.

It wasn't the idea of the line, it was the execution, the dialogue itself. The line is just bad.

[Bossa Nova]

It's things like this that make me realize how truly difficult it is for fanfiction authors to write the turtles acting OOC. I mean, if it was originally planned in a canon film for Raph to be a birthday clown, I would say just about anything could be made to work:ohwell: What a shame. Those scrapped ideas sound terrible.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Raph did the birthday thing in the OT to a degree in Splinter Vanishes :D...but I cannot imagine a movie Raph doing that.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I know I'll be alone on this, but I would have loved the idea of "Raph Being Killed", but then brought back.

I think it would have brought the movie a bit more weight to it. It would have definitely been unexpected, and it would have given the Leo & Raph subplot a definite resolution.

For example, you could have Raph taking a hit for Leo and thus showing 100% that he not only cares, but would give up his life for his brother/Leo.

You could show the sadness & reaction of the other brothers to this event (Mikey's reaction could be a very heartbreaking moment), particularly Leo's.

And then when Raph comes back, you could have a great Raph & Leo moment that really finishes that entire subplot with a Bang.

But instead, in the film it kinda ends on a lame, eh, whatever whimper.

"Here's your swords!"
"Thanks."

(Yeah I know that's not the exact words, but it was a lackluster conclusion to that subplot. At least the stuff above would have finished it with a good depth to it.

I also like the idea of no Casey/April in it. It would be nice to have 1 film without either of them in it.

"Raph doesn’t start out the movie as the Nightwatcher, but grows “closer and closer to solo-heroism.”

Interesting, interesting.

Although I don't get the "Mikey as Nightwatcher yet Raph at Birthday parties" thing. Eh?

But the other stuff? To be honest, I'd be interested in seeing that film. Really would.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd never read those notes, that was interesting.

I'm a big fan of shaking the status quo and breaking the Turtles out of their pigeonholed personalities/personality traits. People that insist that only Raph can ever be angry in a dialogue or Mikey can be the only one who ever cracks a joke should probably just go **** off.

[madyankees]

I'm glad Laird pick apart the script. While the 07 movie was not exactly epic stuff but it could have been much worse with all those holes in the original draft.

[Genesis]

I definitely agree with Andrew's sentiment. At the same time, though, I think that some might take that mentality and go to the opposite extreme - shaking the Turtles out of the status quo with no real substance behind it - change for the sake of change, if you will. To me, that's just as bad, especially if it's just a "swap," of sorts. Making additions to their personalities doesn't mean making them act like each other.

Kind of only semi-related, I am suddenly reminded of Donatello's "Second smartest!" line from IDW #13. Ick.

A great counter-thought to that is in TMNT (Vol. 1) #10, when Don takes charge and barks orders at Raphael, in Leo's absence.

[OrokuYoshiFilms]

I'd never read those notes, that was interesting.

I'm a big fan of shaking the status quo and breaking the Turtles out of their pigeonholed personalities/personality traits. People that insist that only Raph can ever be angry in a dialogue or Mikey can be the only one who ever cracks a joke should probably just go **** off.

...currently ****-ing off.

Hey, it ain't broke to me. I think the definite, distinct, concrete personality of each turtle, makes their togetherness work better. If they could all jump ship to each others personalities at whim, then there might as well just be one mutated turtle with a rainbow bandana...

[Andrew NDB]

...currently ****-ing off.

Hey, it ain't broke to me. I think the definite, distinct, concrete personality of each turtle, makes their togetherness work better. If they could all jump ship to each others personalities at whim, then there might as well just be one mutated turtle with a rainbow bandana...

But nobody on Earth save for mental patients have such "concrete personalities." It's insulting to the characters and, frankly, to the people watching/reading said characters by TPTB that would feed us claptrap like, "Raphael is the only one allowed to ever be mad," or "Leonardo is the only one ever allowed to be leaderly, in any conversation."

I mean, as a reader, appreciator of literature or prose... who likes their characters so one dimensional? I mean, really?

[OrokuYoshiFilms]

But nobody on Earth save for mental patients have such "concrete personalities." It's insulting to the characters and, frankly, to the people watching/reading said characters by TPTB that would feed us claptrap like, "Raphael is the only one allowed to ever be mad," or "Leonardo is the only one ever allowed to be leaderly, in any conversation."

I mean, as a reader, appreciator of literature or prose... who likes their characters so one dimensional? I mean, really?

To be honest I wouldn't mind A BIT of personality exploration amongst the turtles, but I truly enjoy the way things are. I don't necessarily care for the "no-turtle-should-ever-deviate-from-his-personality" thing but I would prefer they stay in the same lane for the most part.

[Shark_Blade]

I wanna see Mikey get mad. There's a gist of it in Nick when Raph got poisoned, but it would be interesting to explore more.

Image in my head, up on a rainy rooftop, Mikey shouting something at Leo or an enemy for example. Just raw energy let loose. Interesting.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I wanna see Mikey get mad. There's a gist of it in Nick when Raph got poisoned, but it would be interesting to explore more.

Image in my head, up on a rainy rooftop, Mikey shouting something at Leo or an enemy for example. Just raw energy let loose. Interesting.

Don't forget that deleted stuff in the first movie (or at least in the comic adaptation that I read of the first film), with Mikey smashing everything up in that barn in anger/rage and such.

[madyankees]

Not forgetting "emo" Donnie in BTTS.

[Mandi-chan]

Okay, hate to derail this discussion, but this is at least the second time this has happened and since no one else has asked about it I guess I will...

OP, what's up with you ripping off darthempress (http://darthempress.tumblr.com/tagged/mah-words)'s posts on tumblr, and not giving them credit at all?

They've noticed, and they're not exactly thrilled.