Most Overrated TMNT Character?

[miru]

For me, it would be Tatsu. There's just nothing really special about him. Not that I hate Tatsu, however.

[CyberCubed]

Hard to say. Maybe Savanti Romero? He's the only major Mirage villain I've never liked.

[Jester]

Mona Lisa. Not sure how a one-off character like her gets so much love.

[Redeemer]

Hard to say. Maybe Savanti Romero? He's the only major Mirage villain I've never liked.

same here I dont really have a hated character, but over-rated definately Romero

[Powder]

Not to knock the turtles but uhhhh I think Raphael is often overrated. In most versions he's pretty one-dimensional, a generic badass.

Mona Lisa. Not sure how a one-off character like her gets so much love.

Furry culture. 9/10 people that like her or Ninjara only do because they have some sorta fantasy about them. :roll:

[CyberCubed]

Not to knock the turtles but uhhhh I think Raphael is often overrated. In most versions he's pretty one-dimensional, a generic badass.

Furry culture. 9/10 people that like her or Ninjara only do because they have some sorta fantasy about them. :roll:

Regarding Raph, I kinda agree. That's why Fred Wolf Raph is my favorite followed by Nick and Movie Raphael.

I love Raphael more when he's not generically angry all the time. Dammit the original toon Raphael was a stroke of genius.

[Gyt Kaliba]

In a way, I'd have to say Shredder. I mean, I love the antics of old toon shredder, and Ch'rell was pretty badass in 2K3...but it's pretty funny that he's pretty much the de-facto villain for every incarnation, when he's only really in a handful of the comics.

[CyberCubed]

In a way, I'd have to say Shredder. I mean, I love the antics of old toon shredder, and Ch'rell was pretty badass in 2K3...but it's pretty funny that he's pretty much the de-facto villain for every incarnation, when he's only really in a handful of the comics.

Not anymore, he's a regular recurring villain in IDW.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Not anymore, he's a regular recurring villain in IDW.

True, but I meant the original Mirage stuff. I should have specified better though, I forgot about IDW there.

[Slade]

Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady.

[Donatello19]

Bebop and Rocksteady. I never liked them, and I don't understand why everyone sees them as such great characters, if you can even call them as such :roll:

[CyberCubed]

Bebop and Rocksteady. I never liked them, and I don't understand why everyone sees them as such great characters, if you can even call them as such :roll:

Because they were written to be funny.

[ObiWanFan4life]

I'd have to say this incarnation of Shredder, I hear people who watch 2012 talk about him being a badass, but in my opinion, he's not worthy of being called a badass because of how Incompetent and Underdeveloped he is.

[Mondo_Gecko]

Mona Lisa. Not sure how a one-off character like her gets so much love.

I liked Mona Lisa because not only was she a female mutant, which was a nice change, her personality was a mirror image of Raphael. I wish she came back so she could have been expanded on and also for continuity. I really hope they bring her back for Nick's version.

[Donatello19]

Underdeveloped

Shredder barley gets any screen time, and this is just the first season.

[Vi11AiN6]

Angry Raph for sure...
I love the OT and Nick Raph soooo much, even IDW needs to reel in the reigns a bit on Angry Raph.

[miru]

Not to knock the turtles but uhhhh I think Raphael is often overrated. In most versions he's pretty one-dimensional, a generic badass.



Furry culture. 9/10 people that like her or Ninjara only do because they have some sorta fantasy about them. :roll:

Like me, for example.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Angry Raph for sure...
I love the OT and Nick Raph soooo much, even IDW needs to reel in the reigns a bit on Angry Raph.

To be fair, Nick Raph is still 'Angry Raph' - it's just a lot more balanced out. He's like a cool mergure between the angry type and the sarcastic type.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Most over-rated? I vote for Krang. Even though I LOVE the dynamic between him and Shredder in OT, he always seemed kind of weak. For being a powerful warlord in Dimension X, and with all the tech he had, he certainly seemed helpless without Shredder around to do everything for him. He didn't even have hands! He was just a squishy brain-squid thing that needed Shredder to do all the work while he just came up with the (usually ineffective) plans.

[chrisdude]

I would love to see Bebop and Rocksteady reimagined in a more serious light, so they can be given some depth. I don't see why people love them so much, now. They're funny. Cool...

Honestly, while we're at it, someone should try to make Venus less lame.

[CyberCubed]

Most over-rated? I vote for Krang. Even though I LOVE the dynamic between him and Shredder in OT, he always seemed kind of weak. For being a powerful warlord in Dimension X, and with all the tech he had, he certainly seemed helpless without Shredder around to do everything for him. He didn't even have hands! He was just a squishy brain-squid thing that needed Shredder to do all the work while he just came up with the (usually ineffective) plans.

You guys take the original toon way too seriously.

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were incompetent villains, and they would constantly fail no matter how many times they tried to take over the Earth. Its how shows were written back then.

[raph27]

Totally Krang.

[Refractive Reflections]

I have a few:

Angry Raphael - I understand the short-tempered behavior some have, but why? ...Why? As Powder said, his anger is one-dimensional. I know some reincarnations have dealt with it because of his solitary, unique existence in being a mutant Turtle, but you would wish that he was smart enough to eventually realize to at least not direct his anger toward the very same people (his brothers and other friends) who care about him which ironically, would make Raphael even more alone. (I know in Archie's Future Raphael, he tells the current one to enjoy his family more, but ironically isn't Future Raphael still just as bitter or more so?)
I mean I'm not expecting him to completely lose his irritable, short-tempered, choleric personality, but there needs to be some substantial growth in that area though.

Mona Lisa - Yes, it was adorable that Raphael "met his match" in playful sarcasm, but her popularity is so unbalanced considering she's only been in one episode. The only way I could try to figure it out, is that there must be a significant amount of female viewers that can somehow...empathize with her...? :-? (Besides the "furry" aspect, maybe it's the girl who can finally "tame" hotheaded Raphael as with Ninjara.)

Tokka and Rahzar - They were just brain-dead mutants in the second movie, and somehow their positions have been elevated as almost a "necessity" as part of the TMNT franchise. At least with Bebop and Rocksteady, even though they were dumb, at least they had a unique humorous bond that was shown in the OT, but yet they are considered "less important" than Tokka and Rahzar.

He was just a squishy brain-squid thing that needed Shredder to do all the work while he just came up with the (usually ineffective) plans.

I think the OT just highlighted the failures of Krang and Shredder in a louder and humorous way than with the other villains in other versions of TMNT. Most to all plans of the villains are going to fail eventually in destroying the Turtles or taking over the world, as in every version of TMNT.

[Vi11AiN6]

To be fair, Nick Raph is still 'Angry Raph' - it's just a lot more balanced out. He's like a cool mergure between the angry type and the sarcastic type.

Agreed and it's why Nick Raph is the best version so fat IMHO

[ssjup81]

I liked Mona Lisa because not only was she a female mutant, which was a nice change, her personality was a mirror image of Raphael. I wish she came back so she could have been expanded on and also for continuity. I really hope they bring her back for Nick's version.Yes!! This is why I liked her so much. I liked Raph for those traits so it was nice seeing another character who could match wits with him.

[Zulithe]

Totally Krang.

I agree... OT Krang... the most hideous android (body) EVER and yet people go crazy for it... I will never understand it, ever. And yes I grew up in the 80s/90s with OT TMNT!

[CyberCubed]

Krang's Android body looks cool. Would you prefer it looking like a generic Utrom exoskeleton like in 4kids and Nick? Hell no the android body is amazing.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Bebop and Rocksteady. I never liked them, and I don't understand why everyone sees them as such great characters, if you can even call them as such :roll:

Nostalgia :)


Tokka and Rahzar - They were just brain-dead mutants in the second movie, and somehow their positions have been elevated as almost a "necessity" as part of the TMNT franchise. At least with Bebop and Rocksteady, even though they were dumb, at least they had a unique humorous bond that was shown in the OT, but yet they are considered "less important" than Tokka and Rahzar.


I been trying to come up with an overrated character as I read this... but I'll agree here with Tokka and Rahzar.
Also Hob in the IDW comics. I dont know where he stands with a fandom and I got into the IDW books late enough that I missed the first, like, 10 or so issues, but anytime he appears I get annoyed.

[JTH]

Honestly, Probably Baxter Stockman.

Once his debut is done in every incarnation, 95% of his usage is just in filler roles that other characters could be used in.

[Keldor1578]

I'd have to say this incarnation of Shredder, I hear people who watch 2012 talk about him being a badass, but in my opinion, he's not worthy of being called a badass because of how Incompetent and Underdeveloped he is.

This, only because the Shredder is human in the nicktoon, he's an awful character.

[Shreddhead]

I'd have to say this incarnation of Shredder, I hear people who watch 2012 talk about him being a badass, but in my opinion, he's not worthy of being called a badass because of how Incompetent and Underdeveloped he is.

I would have to go with the Shredder myself as well. But I disagree with your reasoning. I agree that The Nick Shredder may be a bit undeveloped but the fact is that every time he comes into contact with the turtles, he wipes the floor with them. Thats pretty "badass" to me. Ya he does usually just hang around his headquarters, sending his incompetent goons to do his dirty work,but when he does show up you know he means business. (Plus I think Kevin Michael Richardson does a great job with his voice)

To me, the shredder has always been overrated because of how little he was in the comics (IDW excluded). The green machine takes him out in the first issue, and then he doesnt show up again until City At War (if im remembering correctly). I read the comics some years after being a big fan of the original toon and I couldnt believe what little presence he had upon my first read through.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

This, only because the Shredder is human in the nicktoon, he's an awful character.

Hasn't he always been human aside from the 2003 series?

I honestly think they could get some good mileage out of him if they play up the current Shredder from the IDW books

[ObiWanFan4life]

I would have to go with the Shredder myself as well. But I disagree with your reasoning. I agree that The Nick Shredder may be a bit undeveloped but the fact is that every time he comes into contact with the turtles, he wipes the floor with them. Thats pretty "badass" to me. Ya he does usually just hang around his headquarters, sending his incompetent goons to do his dirty work,but when he does show up you know he means business. (Plus I think Kevin Michael Richardson does a great job with his voice).

I agree that Kevin Micheal Richardson does a good job playing the character, But as a villain and a character on the whole, he's very uninteresting and generic. Hopefully, this will be rectified by the 2nd season. I only said he wasn't much of a bad ass because he's not very proactive.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Honestly, Richardson is part of the issue for me. Don't get me wrong, he is an AMAZING actor, and once we finally start to get more Shredder where they use him properly (hopefully), then I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it. As things are right now though, where all we have is a guy who's big, kicks ass, and...that's it. He's big and he kicks ass. So they went with the most obvious voice for that type of thing, a really, really deep one.

So it's kind of a compound problem - I want to see this Shredder do more and see that he's not just what he appears on the surface, because it'll give Richardson all the more room to play in, and that's what I really wanna hear.

[Shreddhead]

I definitely agree with both of you.

[Irishmile]

Hmmm.. I may get some eye rollies :roll: for this but for me I think it would be Radical (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Radical)... The "super hero" type stuff seemed shoe horned into the TMNT universe in an attempt to draw in more mainstream comic readers.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

For me, it would be Tatsu. There's just nothing really special about him. Not that I hate Tatsu, however.

You mean... people actually "rated" Tatsu?
I never really knew anyone to care about him that much lol

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You guys take the original toon way too seriously.

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were incompetent villains, and they would constantly fail no matter how many times they tried to take over the Earth. Its how shows were written back then.

I never said I took it seriously- it's just that even as a "campy" villain, he was nigh useless. One could argue that Shredder was the REAL threat- without his android body(that Shredder built!), Krang couldn't even wipe his @$$! (so to speak) And for someone who was "all brain", he certainly got outsmarted a lot..... (Buffy Shellhammer, anyone? A FIFTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL tricked them!)

And not all shows were written that way back then. I remember Megatron being far more competent(though I'll go out on a limb and say that all the GOOD plans came from Starscream!). Same with some other cartoon villains of the 80's.

[cryan]

I am going with OT Mutagen man. I was wondering what he was like in the Archie comic(if he was in there).I though MM was very annoying.

[Powder]

Hmmm.. I may get some eye rollies :roll: for this but for me I think it would be Radical (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Radical)... The "super hero" type stuff seemed shoe horned into the TMNT universe in an attempt to draw in more mainstream comic readers.

I am going with OT Mutagen man. I was wondering what he was like in the Archie comic(if he was in there).I though MM was very annoying.

They're not overrated, you just don't like them. Small/minor characters like that don't even have a following.

[Prowler]

Despite her being an interesting character, I don't think Mona Lisa deserves the cult following she has.

I would love to see Bebop and Rocksteady reimagined in a more serious light, so they can be given some depth. I don't see why people love them so much, now. They're funny. Cool...

Honestly, while we're at it, someone should try to make Venus less lame.
Bebop and Rocksteady were popular because of their looks and their hilarious stupidity. They were never meant to be serious characters and I have no interest in seeing a serious version of them.

[Luckyday]

I would love to see Bebop and Rocksteady reimagined in a more serious light, so they can be given some depth. I don't see why people love them so much, now. They're funny. Cool...

Honestly, while we're at it, someone should try to make Venus less lame.

The problem with Venus was that she was the gimmicky 5th ninja turtle character. If I could fix her, I would change her backstory and point out that she have no relation and no connection to the day that the turtles were change by the ooze. Her only connection was that she was mutated like everyone else. I wouldn't even make her a ninja (either a shaman or kung fu martial artist from China) or even same type of turtle. Slash is sometimes a snapping turtle or some other form of species so she should be a sea turtle or tortois

[Donatello19]

The problem with Venus was that she was the gimmicky 5th ninja turtle character. If I could fix her, I would change her backstory and point out that she have no relation and no connection to the day that the turtles were change by the ooze. Her only connection was that she was mutated like everyone else. I wouldn't even make her a ninja (either a shaman or kung fu martial artist from China) or even same type of turtle. Slash is sometimes a snapping turtle or some other form of species so she should be a sea turtle or tortois
Agreed. She should have no connection to the turtles. MAYBE if that was the case, people wouldn't mind her too much. Also instead of her being a part of the team, she could just be an ally that helps on occasion, like Leatherhead.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Slash. Could have been an awesome character if not so stupid, looking for a palmtree.

[Jester]

Slash. Could have been an awesome character if not so stupid, looking for a palmtree.
Read Archie's Slash. The awesome character is exactly what you get....

[Leo656]

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were incompetent villains, and they would constantly fail no matter how many times they tried to take over the Earth. Its how shows were written back then.

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were an old married couple, with Shredder the hen-pecked husband and Krang the nagging wife. :lol:

Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.

I have to agree with those who say Raphael. As a Leo fan, I admit being biased a little bit, but they're really more like the TMNT versions of Superman and Batman than anything: More similar to each other than either is comfortable admitting, each having similar goals, wants and desires but choosing to express themselves in entirely opposite ways, one is "dark" while one is "light", etc. That's how I've always seen Leo and Raph, anyway.

I like them both a lot, but at times, I've been a little perplexed and annoyed by how rabid some of Raphael's fans can be. It's a lot of the same thing with rabid Batman/Wolverine/Spawn fans: "dark" and "angry" doesn't necessarily equal "character development", and while there are plenty of good to great stories with those characters to go around (Well, except Spawn... never, ever Spawn), most people who say they identify with one or the other character almost always says some variation of "I can really relate to being a dark, angry loner"... which really says more about that individual than the characters, honestly.

I don't want to sound like a basher, because I absolutely know the next step is a bunch of "Leonardo is the most overrated character because __________" posts (although I have to argue he can't be, because his popularity is probably muniscule compared to Raph and Mikey, and maybe a little greater than Donnie's). I do like Raphael. He's probably my second favorite Turtle. But as I've pointed out elsewhere, in most versions, Raph only has one storyline: The one where he's angry all the time for no reason, sometimes psychotically so (remember that early Mirage issue where it seemed like he was actually going to kill Mikey for no damn reason? WTF was that about?). And he never really evolves past this. I mean, even in Mirage, the so-called "canon"... almost 30 years of stories, and despite being turned into some kind of dinosaur monster by the end, Raphael was the exact same character as when he started. Angry, violent, and pretty unlikable really.

Granted, he was entirely different in the original cartoon, but since a lot of his jokes fell flat and at times his constant sarcasm and fourth wall-breaking made him even more annoying than Mikey (IMO), I can't entirely say it was an improvement, just "different". But that leads into another reason I don't think Mona Lisa, for example, was overrated, because at least that episode gave Raphael something different to do for a change, and the same can be said for Ninjara in the Archie series. One could argue Mona Lisa and Ninjara are both overrated because they weren't around much and yet have fairly enthusiastic fan support, but I'd argue that is negated by the fact that each one had a turn at making a somewhat one-dimensional main character briefly more interesting. Since that was the entire point of their creation, and they each succeeded to a point, I can't say either should be overrated per se; but since those stories were almost the only time we saw Raphael act any different at all from what we always see, I could easily argue that he himself is.

He's just a walking ball of rage. I have my own theory that it's because the rest of the Turtles each get practical, useful weapons and he gets stuck with over-sized salad forks, but that's neither here nor there. He's pretty one-note either way. All four of them are, to various degrees, but since he's the most popular despite having no more depth than a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I'd honestly have to say he's the most over-rated character.

Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.

So those are my picks: Raphael (too much angst for no real reason, his character never evolves) and Splinter (Says lots, does little) are the most overrated in my opinion, because despite being heavily-featured main cast players with large fanbases, they don't really do much on their own to earn it. Feel free to disagree. :)

[Jester]

See, that's just it Leo. You're right, it's all subjective, because for me "overrated" is a minor character that seems to be loved beyond what's due a 1 episode appearance and a figure.

[cryan]

[QUOTE=Prowler;1122242]Despite her being an interesting character, I don't think Mona Lisa deserves the cult following she has.


Well Playmates made a figure of her. Though a bit different in appearance but still.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That's exactly why I chose Krang- Basically, he was like Splinter- says a lot, but spends most of his time watching soaps and fussing at Shredder without doing much himself. He may have been the "brains" of their operation, but since most of his schemes fell flat, that's not saying much. And even his android body seemed a bit over-rated. He had all this tech, and could build those Foot robots to perform fighting skills, and yet he couldn't make the thing a little less clunky and clumsy?!

[Leo656]

Jester, I get ya. To me, it still reads different. Probably because of most of those types of "Overrated" characters, every one of their fans would call them "underrated": lots of possible potential, but never fully realized. And they'd have a legitimate point. Mona Lisa, for example, could be called "overrated" because little in her one appearance seems to justify her having many fans, but on the flip side, if she had only had more episodes she could theoretically have become one of the most popular characters on the show, given time. We'll never know for sure how that would have gone, obviously, but the potential could easily lead others to argue she was an underrated rather than overrated character.

So yeah, it's all subjective, and depends greatly on the individual's definition of "overrated". When coming up with who I consider the MOST overrated, my definition throws out automatically any characters who could be equally argued as both overrated AND underrated. I also avoided supporting cast; something in me just feels like the MOST overrated has to be a main hero or villain character. Raph is generally the most popular Turtle and Splinter is essentially the series's Yoda, so it's safe to say neither can be UNDERrated. :) I honestly don't think Krang is anywhere near as popular as some other characters, so his general uselessness gets a pass.

But everyone applying their own definition leads to a wider range of answers, which is nice. If I was going into the supporting cast I could make long arguments for why the Neutrinos, Irma and even April are overrated. But I'll save that for another time.

[Luckyday]

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were an old married couple, with Shredder the hen-pecked husband and Krang the nagging wife. :lol:

Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.

I have to agree with those who say Raphael. As a Leo fan, I admit being biased a little bit, but they're really more like the TMNT versions of Superman and Batman than anything: More similar to each other than either is comfortable admitting, each having similar goals, wants and desires but choosing to express themselves in entirely opposite ways, one is "dark" while one is "light", etc. That's how I've always seen Leo and Raph, anyway.

I like them both a lot, but at times, I've been a little perplexed and annoyed by how rabid some of Raphael's fans can be. It's a lot of the same thing with rabid Batman/Wolverine/Spawn fans: "dark" and "angry" doesn't necessarily equal "character development", and while there are plenty of good to great stories with those characters to go around (Well, except Spawn... never, ever Spawn), most people who say they identify with one or the other character almost always says some variation of "I can really relate to being a dark, angry loner"... which really says more about that individual than the characters, honestly.

I don't want to sound like a basher, because I absolutely know the next step is a bunch of "Leonardo is the most overrated character because __________" posts (although I have to argue he can't be, because his popularity is probably muniscule compared to Raph and Mikey, and maybe a little greater than Donnie's). I do like Raphael. He's probably my second favorite Turtle. But as I've pointed out elsewhere, in most versions, Raph only has one storyline: The one where he's angry all the time for no reason, sometimes psychotically so (remember that early Mirage issue where it seemed like he was actually going to kill Mikey for no damn reason? WTF was that about?). And he never really evolves past this. I mean, even in Mirage, the so-called "canon"... almost 30 years of stories, and despite being turned into some kind of dinosaur monster by the end, Raphael was the exact same character as when he started. Angry, violent, and pretty unlikable really.

Granted, he was entirely different in the original cartoon, but since a lot of his jokes fell flat and at times his constant sarcasm and fourth wall-breaking made him even more annoying than Mikey (IMO), I can't entirely say it was an improvement, just "different". But that leads into another reason I don't think Mona Lisa, for example, was overrated, because at least that episode gave Raphael something different to do for a change, and the same can be said for Ninjara in the Archie series. One could argue Mona Lisa and Ninjara are both overrated because they weren't around much and yet have fairly enthusiastic fan support, but I'd argue that is negated by the fact that each one had a turn at making a somewhat one-dimensional main character briefly more interesting. Since that was the entire point of their creation, and they each succeeded to a point, I can't say either should be overrated per se; but since those stories were almost the only time we saw Raphael act any different at all from what we always see, I could easily argue that he himself is.

He's just a walking ball of rage. I have my own theory that it's because the rest of the Turtles each get practical, useful weapons and he gets stuck with over-sized salad forks, but that's neither here nor there. He's pretty one-note either way. All four of them are, to various degress, but since he's the most popular despite having no more depth than a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I'd honestly have to say he's the most over-rated character.

Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.

So those are my picks: Raphael (too much angst for no real reason, his character never evolves) and Splinter (Says lots, does little) are the most overrated in my opinion, because despite being heavily-featured main cast players with large fanbases, they don't really do much on their own to earn it. Feel free to disagree. :)

You sure have some stones there, sir.

[Leo656]

:lol: Brother, I'm the Patron Saint of Unpopular Opinions. I loved "Superman Returns". I'm on Axl's side. I hate The Rock. "Young Guns" is my favorite movie of all time. I think "Chinese Democracy" is brilliant. I'm a Hogan fan. I love the "Masters of the Universe" movie. Kevin Nash is my Real Dad. Emilio Estevez is the greatest actor ever to walk the Earth. I sort of run against the grain, generally speaking. :lol:

And I like Raphael. A lot. But he's probably the most overrated character of the main cast. Mostly because he's essentially popular just for being Wolverine without actually being Wolverine. That doesn't make him "bad". :)

[The Big Bad]

I'm going to go and say The Shredder: I've recently concluded that the core concept of the character is rather uninteresting outside of his design, and that therefore some external element needs to be added before he is made worthwhile.

I mean, why is the Mirage Shredder memorable? Not because anything he did, necessarily, but because he died, and that death led to interesting stories. Fred Wolf Shredder? He's funny and whiny and incompetent, and has great chemistry with his fellow evildoers. Ch'rell? He was an Utrom, a father, genocidal, none of which were things any other version of the character possessed and which helped make him way more fun than he had a right to be. (Okay, so Image Shredder was technically a father, but he was also dead.)

Take away those additional elements, and he becomes a rather standard villain. The Shredder is my least favorite character in the original film, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's more or less faithful to the original.

As for the takes on the character since Nick's takeover, they've felt more or less equally uninteresting, in part because the writers seem to expect me to find the character awesome despite evidence to the contrary. The cartoon version has kicked the turtles' asses, but hey, so did Mirage's version, and that didn't make him interesting; aside from that, he's empty, and while we haven't seen a whole lot of him, I don't really care to see more, either. Meanwhile, while the IDW version has lots of added elements, none seem to overtake the fact that the character feels incompetent--not in the intentional way the Fred Wolf version was, but incompetent because the writers can't figure out how to make him otherwise (time has not made the "let's recruit Leo to be my successor" any less stupid). What's more, both versions have neglected to give him an inner life: he's all about being bad and abusive, which makes both versions dreadfully boring. Granted, they're following the template set by the original, but that's the problem: the original wasn't terribly good.

[Bauer536]

Big Bad - I understand how you feel about the Shredder. Sometimes he is just empty because of how evil he is. But, I still have to disagree on an extent. I don't think he's boring, and according to fans, he's badass. I love it. He's the Lex Luthor to the turtles. Yet, if you're gonna give your opinions, maybe give something positive with that. I mean, do you always have to be so negative in your posts?

Other than that - the most overrated character, to me, would be Hun. I never thought he was that cool. It was pretty much the stereotypical muscular guy that worked for Shredder. I didn't want that. However, we're getting that with Dogpound (who is way cooler).:tcool: Still, I miss Tatsu. That's probably another reason why I didn't like Hun so much.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I actually LIKED Hun. He had an interesting backstory that tied him to Casey, he had personality outside of being Shredder's head-goon, and he led the Purple Dragons as his own thing, so he had that going for him. He also turns out to be an avid gamer with an on-line game persona that Mikey is actually jealous/afraid of, LOL! And his loyalty and dedication (rescuing Karai even though she was basically his replacement) was cool. To me, Baxter was more overrated in that series, due to how many times he (almost) died. Seriously, when were they gonna' just put him out of his misery? It was almost like a running joke in the show- "How many times can we (pretend to) kill off Baxter?" It got old after a while.

[Leo656]

I liked Baxter's eternal torment on that show. For some reason I found it darkly humorous that his entire life was a walking nightmare. Whatever kept him from chewing through his tongue and offing himself, I will never know. :lol:

Actually, his life pretty much sucked in the Fred Wolf show, too, from an entirely different direction. Baxter Stockman: The Universe's Bitch in every single TMNT Universe. I kinda like that. :lol:

[RaphAndDonnie]

No matter how much I like the character I have to say Mona Lisa. She was great in "Raph Meets His Match" but the large following always confused me. I also want to say Lotus Blossom, even though it doesn't seem like she has the biggest fan base.

[Leo656]

Is Mona Lisa really that popular, though? She's very obscure. I never see her mentioned outside the 'Drome, and even that's rare.

Feel free to correct me, though. I just always assumed she didn't have a big following.

[Luckyday]

No matter how much I like the character I have to say Mona Lisa. She was great in "Raph Meets His Match" but the large following always confused me. I also want to say Lotus Blossom, even though it doesn't seem like she has the biggest fan base.

Probably because the quota of "sexy ninja chick" is already out filled by Karai in most incarnations of TMNT. :lol:

[Leo656]

Didn't Lotus predate Karai, though? Wasn't Lotus's first appearance earlier than Karai's?

It's interesting that, despite being so similar, Karai seemingly took the place of Lotus in the overall mythology. Maybe not directly, as I know they're not meant to be the same character, but "in spirit".

[Luckyday]

Yes but what I mean by "in most incarnations", I mean that Karai is in most versions of TMNT. I wouldn't mind having Lotus brought back if she was something different and not a ninja.

[Leo656]

I'unno, I think if Lotus isn't a ninja she has a lot less of a point to begin with. I mean, you could introduce a Japanese chick named Lotus who's, I don't know, a hairdresser or a waitress or something, and it's still an entirely different character who simply shares a name. The character was conceived entirely to be a ninja; that's her entire point of existence.

I mean I guess you still could, but I'm not sure she'd still be relevant as a character.

[Luckyday]

Please, there many ways to be involved in the underworld without being a ninja. She can a elite Yakuza gang leader/member, sniper assassin, hitman/ cleaner, someone who has connections with the chinese triad, or a government spy. Lotus to me always sounds like a code name or nickname like the Shredder or Splinter.

[Leo656]

Eh, I suppose so. Honestly, you gave it more thought than I have. :)

The question then becomes, if she can't kick his ass, would Leo still want to tap that? :P

[Luckyday]

Yeah I guess but I would like to expect something different. IDK

Anyway back to topic.
Irma can sometimes come across as overrated. She just a side character and people treat her as one of the most important things in the franchise.

[Leo656]

My off-topic-ness is Legend. I'll go back on when I'm ready, not before. :P

I'm ready... but NOT because you said so.

And indeed, Irma's kind of non-essential. She needs more backstory. Maybe her and April went to college together, or were roomates, or something. I don't know. Other than the fact she's man-crazy we never really learn much about her, despite all the screen time she got.

[Refractive Reflections]

Is Mona Lisa really that popular, though? She's very obscure. I never see her mentioned outside the 'Drome, and even that's rare.

Feel free to correct me, though. I just always assumed she didn't have a big following.

My friend, you don't know just how big her following is. :lol:
When I type in "mona lisa tmnt" on deviantart, the results are over 2000:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=mona+lisa+tmnt

...But for Lotus there's only about 40 in "lotus tmnt" on deviantart. And Lotus was in 2 episodes, compared to Mona Lisa having only 1! :lol:


And indeed, Irma's kind of non-essential. She needs more backstory. Maybe her and April went to college together, or were roomates, or something. I don't know. Other than the fact she's man-crazy we never really learn much about her, despite all the screen time she got.


Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.


I think the bigger question would be, would the audience actually care to know more about Irma and Splinter? I mean would an audience of kids (for the OT) and adventure-seeking adolescents/adults (for the comics) want to know the backstories of supporting characters that don't directly affect the Turtles?

Irma was only designed for comedic relief and was really only important because she was April's friend and co-worker. I think if she didn't have the dorky and humorous man-hungry crazy side to her, she would have easily been forgotten as part of the Channel 6 news crew and the audience would have questioned her presence in the show even further. I think her popularity is generally okay considering the number of episodes she was in and that it was fine we didn't know about her backstory (much less cared), because she was a secondary or even a tertiary character. What I do think is too much is when she is considered a "necessity" for the TMNT franchise, and it was surprising how many people here were advocating her (and she now most likely appear in Season 2) presence in Nick TMNT.


As for Splinter, I think the reason he's mostly only depicted to:
"rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone."

...is because it would give (the comic or show) too much of the spotlight on Splinter. Most of the backstories with Splinter are suffice because the reader/viewer only care about the Turtles, to put it bluntly. Yes, eventually as fans we do get more and more interested in secondary and supporting characters, but the main allure of franchise is the "TMNT" and not "TMNT & Splinter", so to speak. If Splinter was consistently fighting alongside his sons, the perilous situations the TMNT & Splinter would find themselves, would highlight more of the parental bond and put the brotherhood bonding among the TMNT into second place. (It could potentially cause even further brotherly strife, if Splinter was seen to rescue one son over the other if Splinter had to choose in saving one over the other. ...But that's a WHOLE other topic altogether.:P)


Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.


I guess with me, I look at it from the perspective that a reader/viewer only has so many minutes per episode and pages per comic, and that these lesser characters (in this case, Irma and Splinter in comparison to the TMNT) are just that, because the Turtles need a majority of its content (over 75%). Otherwise the direction of TMNT changes dramatically.
For argument sake, we could even throw in Casey Jones and April as being "overrated" too because we don't know their complete family histories (father, mother, siblings, all of their friends, career choices, dating partners, etc.) considering how popular they are, but as first time readers/viewers of TMNT we don't particularly care for that because we all rate their importance on just how vital they are in contributing to the Turtles' characters.

I guess I consider a character "overrated" if the popularity of that character far exceeds the character's contribution to the reinterpretation, in relation to their character degree of importance within that universe.


Thanks Leo656 for bringing up some great points! Your perspective really helps me to explain my position, and I enjoy that! :)

[Leo656]

You're correct in that I never specifically went looking to see how popular Mona Lisa is... I guess I'm not surprised, it's just that I rarely ever hear her mentioned.

I don't know if some of the other characters' backstories would be well-received or not, but I don't think it would hurt, either, if it was done well.

[Jester]

You're correct in that I never specifically went looking to see how popular Mona Lisa is... I guess I'm not surprised, it's just that I rarely ever hear her mentioned.
Yeah Mona's very popular with a particular breed of fan...and maybe THAT'S why I'm not a fan.

[Leo656]

:lol: Those people don't bother me so whatever. I get what you're saying, though. :lol:

I'm a bit of a libertine about stuff like that. So long as nobody hurts nobody, whatever's whatever.

[The Sewer Lord]

I'd have to say this incarnation of Shredder, I hear people who watch 2012 talk about him being a badass, but in my opinion, he's not worthy of being called a badass because of how Incompetent and Underdeveloped he is.

Correctr!!!

[Krang100]

I voted Hun, i never liked bully characters, and Hun wasn't exception, the treatment to Stockman was by far dislikeable, Stockman makes mistakes and was meamed (most of then did by Hun himself). Hun makes mistakes and his punishment wasn't too harsh in comparation to Stockman. When Stockman get the exosuit, i hoped Stockman maimed or killed Hun in a violent way, but it was frustrated. Hun is a sociopath, kills Casey father, tried to hurt April (Who not even was a fighter).

It doesn't help Hun was brought to mirage comics, when other characters deserve to be in Mirage Comics, such Krang, Bishop or Irma.

In a lesser extend, another overrate characters are Bebop and Rocksteady, although help a least they are comic relief.

[Pterobat]

I voted Hun, i never liked bully characters, and Hun wasn't exception, the treatment to Stockman was by far dislikeable, Stockman makes mistakes and was meamed (most of then did by Hun himself). Hun makes mistakes and his punishment wasn't too harsh in comparation to Stockman. When Stockman get the exosuit, i hoped Stockman maimed or killed Hun in a violent way, but it was frustrated. Hun is a sociopath, kills Hun father, tried to hurt April (Who not even was a fighter).

I assumed Hun was never dismembered in the same way because the Shredder valued Hun for his physical strength, and dismembering Hun would take away the only reason the Shredder kept him around. He only needs Stockman for his "brains". And Stockman, well, Stockman wanted to go after the man who ordered his destruction, aka the Shredder.

Mm...I'm also uncomfortable with the term "overrated", because it's another way to say, "You like this thing that you like too much".

[Lisardo]

Regarding Raph, I kinda agree. That's why Fred Wolf Raph is my favorite followed by Nick and Movie Raphael.

I love Raphael more when he's not generically angry all the time. Dammit the original toon Raphael was a stroke of genius.

Agree 100% on that one. I can't stand angry, woe-is-me Raph! I realize that's his source characterization, but still...annoying. Fred Wolf Raph was just so refreshing and funny!

[ssjup81]

What about Archie Raph? He was dark, but he was sarcastic and witty too, like OT Raph. I felt it was a nice balance.

[Tora]

Super Shredder. He made a small cameo of sorts and as Badass as he was he makes my head hurt when trying to figure out how his armor mutated as well :o

[Leo656]

BUT... buuuuuuut.... he WAS played by THIS GUY.....
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110219151959/prowrestling/de/images/f/f1/Nash.jpg

So by that logic Super-Shredder wasn't just forgivable, he's awesome. 8)

[CyberCubed]

Super Shredder. He made a small cameo of sorts and as Badass as he was he makes my head hurt when trying to figure out how his armor mutated as well :o

Because he was used in the videogames as well. He was awesome in TMNT III and Turtles in Time. And in the games he could shoot fire/ice/mutagen.

[Tora]

Because he was used in the videogames as well. He was awesome in TMNT III and Turtles in Time. And in the games he could shoot fire/ice/mutagen.

I like that he was in those games but has anyone ever tried to put logic as to why his armor grew and changed in size? I just think he was wasted and didn't make really any sense.

He also drank the mutagen which didn't make much sense when touching it should have been enough right? Also what did he mutate into a large Japanese man? :tlol:

[VaughnMichael]

It's hard to choose but I'm going to go with Bebop & Rocksteady.

[pingclang]

A lot of Raph hate on this thread. I'm kind of at a loss for words with that. Anger isn't his defining quality, it's his over-emotion all together. He doesn't hide what he thinks and feels and just tends to be pretty rough about it. He can be too caring, as we see in the current run with Casey, and too harsh like when Leo booted him in the new series during his spotlight episode. Someone said IDW needs to tone his anger down, I think they've leashed it in too much. I want him losing it and then paying for it, like in the original movie on the rooftop. Sorry I got sort of off topic but he is my favorite.

[dkram230]

IRMA! And I never would have considered her overrated until this forum but for some reason people here think their TMNT universe would be incomplete without her. I don't really understand- To me she's annoying in OT and insignificant to most story lines. Hopefully that doesn't carry through to Nick.

[ssjup81]

IRMA! And I never would have considered her overrated until this forum but for some reason people here think their TMNT universe would be incomplete without her. I don't really understand- To me she's annoying in OT and insignificant to most story lines. Hopefully that doesn't carry through to Nick.I personally liked Irma. IMO, I felt she represented the normalcy of April's life, as they were like girlfriends, ya know? That's probably what she represented as far as the OT goes. It was nice that April had someone to interact with (like a normal woman) outside of the Turtles and Splinter, as it seemed to be inferred that April and Irma were really good friends.

[Pterobat]

I personally liked Irma. IMO, I felt she represented the normalcy of April's life, as they were like girlfriends, ya know? That's probably what she represented as far as the OT goes. It was nice that April had someone to interact with (like a normal woman) outside of the Turtles and Splinter, as it seemed to be inferred that April and Irma were really good friends.

If that was all Irma was, I would have had no problem with her. But the whole "desperately, insanely man-hungry" thing was just unsettling and made me dislike her intensely.

What doubles it, maybe, is that I expected to like her, because she was a fellow nerdy-looking girl, but when I rewatched the series as an adult, no dice. No dice.

[Slap-Happy]

I honestly might say Raphael.

[CyberCubed]

Vernon and Irma are very funny characters because they're supposed to be, "losers" and you feel sorry for them. Granted Irma is usually shown in a positive light in the OT, but everytime Vernon did something sneaky and then got punished for it and begged for his life...it was hilarious.

[slashpieturtlemix]

Vernon and Irma are very funny characters because they're supposed to be, "losers" and you feel sorry for them. Granted Irma is usually shown in a positive light in the OT, but everytime Vernon did something sneaky and then got punished for it and begged for his life...it was hilarious.

I agree. I wish they would remake the characters with a serious light. Then we can get a gag on Vernon every once in a while lol

[hadoolket]

If that was all Irma was, I would have had no problem with her. But the whole "desperately, insanely man-hungry" thing was just unsettling and made me dislike her intensely.

What doubles it, maybe, is that I expected to like her, because she was a fellow nerdy-looking girl, but when I rewatched the series as an adult, no dice. No dice.

with all that said, her behavior along with everyone else was comedy relief in bad taste, much like the entire 80s series (no apology here, 80s fanboys)

i'm sure if april can get an attitude makeover--that is, from originally being "SCOOPS SCOOPS SCOOPS I NEED TO GET THE SCOOPS HAAGEN DAAZ AHH PLOT DEVICE RESCUE ME PLZ"--surely she can, though familiar remnants of her character obviously will carry over

[raph27]

If the OT was a character..................
No, but I'd say Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang.

[dkram230]

Vernon and Irma are very funny characters because they're supposed to be, "losers" and you feel sorry for them. Granted Irma is usually shown in a positive light in the OT, but everytime Vernon did something sneaky and then got punished for it and begged for his life...it was hilarious.
I actually liked Vernon. He was what he was supposed to be to the show and was never made out into something more by writers or fans. I can see how his character would be good for the 2014 movie, but don't think he would be necessary for the Nick series. They would probably just mutate him anyway like they do everyone else LOL.

[Xav]

At least with Bebop and Rocksteady, even though they were dumb, at least they had a unique humorous bond that was shown in the OT, but yet they are considered "less important" than Tokka and Rahzar.I don't think people see Bebop and Rocksteady as "less important" than Tokka and Rahzar. I always see people asking for Bebop and Rocksteady in the new show or movie. Rarely do I ever see people asking for Tokka and Rahzar. I think Bebop and Rocksteady are much more overrated. They are nothing more than bumbling henchmen. At least Tokka and Rahzar got to smart in the Fred Wolf toon.
Hun is a sociopath, kills Hun father, tried to hurt April (Who not even was a fighter).Wait when did Hun kill his own father? While I agree he's a bastard, he's a villain he's supposed to be unlikeable.

i'm sure if april can get an attitude makeover--that is, from originally being "SCOOPS SCOOPS SCOOPS I NEED TO GET THE SCOOPS HAAGEN DAAZ AHH PLOT DEVICE RESCUE ME PLZ"--surely she can, though familiar remnants of her character obviously will carry overApril wasn't like that in the original comics. She was more of a den mother to the Turtles.

[CyberCubed]

Bebop/Rocksteady were liked because they were funny characters and their designs were cool. It doesn't get much more complicated than that.

[Pterobat]

April wasn't like that in the original comics. She was more of a den mother to the Turtles.

The problem with Fred Wolf April is that as much as she loves her job, following after that hot story only gets her kidnapped instead, and it's not portrayed as funny. It just sort of...happens. As cliche as it is, I'm totally on board with those who characterize her as the "damsel in distress".

Bebop/Rocksteady were liked because they were funny characters and their designs were cool. It doesn't get much more complicated than that.

Then why do people keep wanting to see them come back as badass villains rather than comedic sidekicks? I'm a little bit confused about that.

Vernon and Irma are very funny characters because they're supposed to be, "losers" and you feel sorry for them. Granted Irma is usually shown in a positive light in the OT, but everytime Vernon did something sneaky and then got punished for it and begged for his life...it was hilarious.

I also know Irma was intended to be a funny character--I just don't find her schtick funny. It's annoying. Vernon I can take or leave, but he didn't grate on my nerves like Irma did.

[snake]

Bebop or Rocksteady. Mostly because If a new turtles show/movie/thing comes up, a bunch of Crazed OT Fans storm the YouTube comments and complain about no Bebop and Rocksteady. Some forget their names and simply comment "Where's the warthog and rino guys who worked for shredder", And yes, that's an actual quote, terrible spelling.

While I understand some would differ, But I never found Bebop nor Rocksteady funny.

Nothing against OT fans, though, as most of them are cool people and I'm one of them, just the crazy ones who frequent the YouTube comments shouting about the turtles being ruined with no Bebop or Rocksteady.

[redsai4lex]

Venus De Milo

[snake]

Venus De Milo

People besides furries like Venus?

[Konchadunga]

Then why do people keep wanting to see them come back as badass villains rather than comedic sidekicks? I'm a little bit confused about that.


I argue you can actually have it both ways, to some extent. Characters like them could be street-smart but book-dumb, as a result of where they came from, and so they could have a lot of comical moments but still give the turtles a threat.

On topic, assuming we're talking cross-incarnation, I'd have to agree with the Shredder being the most overrated character, with a note of fairness that his original reason for overexposure wasn't that he was absolutely beloved, but that Playmates said they needed a core villain. Still, it's pretty pathetic that some people cite his absence as the reason they hate the third and fourth movies.

Zeroing in on the individual incarnations, I think 4Kids Karai is pretty overrated. At first, she was alright; even cool, but the more apparent it became that Ch'rel's kind side ended with her, the more her fanatical devotion to him made her look like a selfish brat. It certainly doesn't help that this looks to be the version of Karai's character that every subsequent universe is copying.

[ssjup81]

IMO, I think it would be nice if Beebop and Rocksteady return they have them as actual threats like in the earlier OT eps.

[pannoni1]

Any character that was introduced just to sell toys. In particular, the toys used for characters that appeared in Season 5 of the OT- Dirtbag, Groundchuck, Chrome Dome, Mutagen Man (possible exception with Nick's revival), Wingnut, Screwloose, Muckman, and Mondo Gecko. Then came TNM with Venus and those villains that were pure filler.

[Cure]

Hard to say. Maybe Savanti Romero? He's the only major Mirage villain I've never liked.

Not to knock the turtles but uhhhh I think Raphael is often overrated. In most versions he's pretty one-dimensional, a generic badass.

I can agree with these. I do like Raph in the new show, though.

[Raphaeline]

I'm sad to see so many Raph haters here, but well. He's not just a angry guys who fights. There's so much more to him than meets the eye.


I think MONA LISA is overrated.

I search some Raph fanart on deviantart ? Mona Lisa everywhere. I search TMNT videos on youtube? Mona Lisa is there as well with stupid petitions like "bring her back to the new series!" and stuff.

She was a naive, whining and lame character who appeared in ONE episode of the 87 series, we never saw her again, her background story was stupid (got mutated in a very strange way, etc), she jumps on Raphael who seems more embarrassed than in love, and now?

Mona Lisa everywhere.

I hope she will never appear in the 2012 series, she would just not match with the new Raph. She is soooo overrated. And I'd love to see the Mona Lisa fans dissapointed.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I'm sad to see so many Raph haters here, but well. He's not just a angry guys who fights. There's so much more to him than meets the eye.


I think MONA LISA is overrated.

I search some Raph fanart on deviantart ? Mona Lisa everywhere. I search TMNT videos on youtube? Mona Lisa is there as well with stupid petitions like "bring her back to the new series!" and stuff.

She was a naive, whining and lame character who appeared in ONE episode of the 87 series, we never saw her again, her background story was stupid (got mutated in a very strange way, etc), she jumps on Raphael who seems more embarrassed than in love, and now?

Mona Lisa everywhere.

I hope she will never appear in the 2012 series, she would just not match with the new Raph. She is soooo overrated. And I'd love to see the Mona Lisa fans dissapointed.

So...he's a Transformer?

(I get what you're saying and agree, just couldn't help myself. He's my favorite 2k12 character, which really, really surprised me since I was ultimate Leo fangirl as kid.)

Back on topic: Venus de Milo. She was just so token and Mary Sue (there goes that phrase again) that I'm embarrassed to think about her.

[CyberCubed]

Venus can't be overrated because she's not liked.

For a character to be overrated you have to be popular to begin with. Disliked or minor and obscure characters cannot be overrated.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Venus can't be overrated because she's not liked.

For a character to be overrated you have to be popular to begin with. Disliked or minor and obscure characters cannot be overrated.

Good point, and something I totally blonded out on there. In that case, I'm going to go with Shredder in most incarnations.

[Konchadunga]

I still get boggled by Venus fans, and furthermore, Next Mutation fans.

Last generation, despite all the rivalry between Mirage, Fred Wolf, and 4Kids fans, the one thing they all seemed to agree on was that TNM sucked. Yet since the buyout, I've wondered if Peter Laird was the only one really holding the door closed to it and its fandom's return. It's not all that surprising that there are Venus fans on DeviantArt; she's just the sort of character many such "artists" like to create, but to see TNM rerunning on the Hub, alongside genuine classics like ALF and Batman, is much scarier. The Hub may just be capitalizing on the new popularity of the Turtles due to the new show, but why TNM? Why not one or both of the cartoons? They don't have any trouble rerunning Batman and Superman cartoons while new ones air on another channel.

That this is on TV concurrent to the new show and graphic novels says there's a risk some new fans of Venus will demand her returns in new incarnations, and Eastman might even grant it!

[Raphaeline]

- Doom Cookie: I didn't get the Transformer joke. Sorry my english may be bad, I said something strange? but yeah Raph is really different in the 87 series compared to the 2k3 or Nick series.

And I agree with you, I was a big fangirl of Leo too when I was a kid. But it's because he was the only one a bit serious in the old 87 series... then in all the other series/movies I prefer Raph.


And I don't want Venus to come back o_o

[Leo656]

To clarify, not all of us who think Raphael is overrated "hate" him. They're completely different things.

I like Raphael a lot; I simply don't think he does enough to earn all the popularity he has considering he's mostly just shown being angry, and that's it as far as character development.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

- Doom Cookie: I didn't get the Transformer joke. Sorry my english may be bad, I said something strange?

No, you didn't say anything strange, and it's not a failing in your excellent English. I made a lame/obscure joke. :)

To clarify, not all of us who think Raphael is overrated "hate" him. They're completely different things.

I like Raphael a lot; I simply don't think he does enough to earn all the popularity he has considering he's mostly just shown being angry, and that's it as far as character development.

I hate to say this, but at least as far as the 2012 series goes, the old truism that girls like assholes applies. I'm also a fan of dark and sarcastic humor, so for me Raph provides superior comic relief vis-à-vis Mikey.

[TurtleTitan97]

Well, in my opinion:

Mona Lisa- Never really saw why people liked her so much when just appeared in only one episode.

Bebop & Rocksteady- These guys may have had their moments but for 95% of the time in the OT they were totally useless.

Irma- Like others have said, people often treat like she's an important character even though really didn't help the turtles as much as April.

OT Krang- At least to some extent. While Krang was a pretty fun character and did have his cool moments (Like when he tried to kill Stockman in Enter: The Fly), he hardly ever left the Technodrome and made Shredder do all the hard stuff.

Venus- Even though the majority of TMNT fans hate her there are still people who want her to come back.

Krang's Android body looks cool. Would you prefer it looking like a generic Utrom exoskeleton like in 4kids and Nick? Hell no the android body is amazing.

I'm sorry, but no. Krang's Android body is pretty ridiculous and isn't exactly what I call one of the coolest robot designs out there. Even as a kid I thought that thing looked pretty silly.

[Jester]

- Doom Cookie: I didn't get the Transformer joke.
S4EReGqHEk4

[Refractive Reflections]

To clarify, not all of us who think Raphael is overrated "hate" him. They're completely different things.

I like Raphael a lot; I simply don't think he does enough to earn all the popularity he has considering he's mostly just shown being angry, and that's it as far as character development.

I agree with Leo656 here. I don't hate/dislike Raphael at all, its just that if his "angry" side is going to be focused on as a major significant personality trait of his, then it should be explored with just as much attention for his character development.

I mean in the 2K3 series we had a numerous episodes that basically focused on Leonardo and his character growth, why can't we have the same for Raphael?

[alliance]

i watched that mona lisa episode and I don't get it..

[ticktack]

I could suggest an overrated epidode. 2003tmnt "Same as it never was". It wasn't a perfection just it was liked because such thing(s) is not shown .. much.
The logic could be the following ML was only mutat female or female mutat that had a role in episode. Venus is only female mutant turtle that was shown on TV. Bebob and Rocksteady being villians they were also fun. OT Krang was clever(brain form), seemed cool. Shredder was shown much, looked good. Irma being a good partner, character.

[LittleBlueHero]

I'd like to throw my hat in for Krang as well. I love the new IDW interpretation of him, but generally disliked his toon forms. I find him uninteresting and visually unappealing.

[Raphaeline]

(I think "Same as it never was" is special enough to be popular, I think's it's my favorite episode because I never expected what happens in it, and the atmosphere was so sad and tragic, no episode made me feel the same way since then :o )

And for Raphael, I agree that I would like to see more development. Because we could see him differently in some episodes (in 2k3: the one where he's cute and caring with the grandma, the one where he helps the child, or in 2012: at the end of the episode 24 where he tries to help Donnie impress April), and I thought that in the early episodes of the Nick series where Splinter tells him to control his anger, it would bring some development to the character... but after that episode he's back to normal... so...

But well it's his temper, I don't want to see him stop being a hothead. But maybe they could develop another aspect of his personality. The fact that he hates bugs is cool in a way, we can see one of his weaknesses.

[miru]

I'd consider Ace Duck pretty overrated. Maybe his fandom is caused by nostaliga?

[Powder]

Ace Duck doesn't have a fandom, you psychopath.

[Bry]

Ace Duck doesn't have a fandom, you psychopath.

Was he even a character, really? I don't remember him actually appearing anywhere - though to be fair, it was a long time ago. I do sort of like him, I guess? But that's entirely based on his action figure being awesome.

[Leo656]

You're nuts. Ace Duck has millions of fans all over the galaxy! He was the undefeated Intergalactic Wrestling Champion of Stump Asteroid, his in-ring exploits seen via satellite all over the known universe! He was the Finest Feathered Fowl of Planet Perdufus!

It's just that Earth homes weren't widely satellite-ready until the early-2000s, so we mostly missed it. Seriously, look it up.

[Metalwolf]

- Doom Cookie: I didn't get the Transformer joke. Sorry my english may be bad, I said something strange? but yeah Raph is really different in the 87 series compared to the 2k3 or Nick series.
'More then meets the eye' is a phrase that means "There is more to that person or thing then what you just see on the surface."

And I agree with you about Mona Lisa. I don't see anything special about her, and I think her OT cartoon 'design' is incredibly ugly. I also hate that she gets stuck onto Raph by fans as a 'love interest.' If she was meant to be a 'love interest,' she would have shown up in more episodes then just that one time as a 'one off' character. They had all those seasons to do it, but they never did.

[Pterobat]

Was he even a character, really? I don't remember him actually appearing anywhere - though to be fair, it was a long time ago. I do sort of like him, I guess? But that's entirely based on his action figure being awesome.

He appeared in the Archie comics as a vain alien wrestler, who didn't wear his pilot costume. That's all I got.


'More then meets the eye' is a phrase that means "There is more to that person or thing then what you just see on the surface."

And I agree with you about Mona Lisa. I don't see anything special about her, and I think her OT cartoon 'design' is incredibly ugly. I also hate that she gets stuck onto Raph by fans as a 'love interest.' If she was meant to be a 'love interest,' she would have shown up in more episodes then just that one time as a 'one off' character. They had all those seasons to do it, but they never did.

Well, I think what happened there is that 'Lisa was telegraphed as a love interest, but the writers got cold feet. The title "Raphael Meets His Match" and the VHS box art which shows a rather infatuated Raph with Mona Lisa in the background is probably what clinched this as a romance for fans, whom I can't blame for taking the idea and running with it.

That being said, the actual episode content is pretty light on the romantic stuff, probably because this was a "boy's" cartoon for very young children. That's also why Mona Lisa never showed up again--romance didn't fit the genre of the FW series.

This raises the question as to why they would attempt to even hint at a romance to start with, if it wasn't going to go anywhere due to the target audience of the show, but that's a mystery.

[snake]

I'd say Hun or 2k3 Casey.

[Krang100]

Wait when did Hun kill his own father? While I agree he's a bastard, he's a villain he's supposed to be unlikeable.

My apologies, i wrote wrong, but i edited. Instead i meant about Casey father.

[zbowen]

The Fred Wolf April. She has huge boobs, I get it. She was still damn annoying.

[PApagreg]

Bebop and rocksteady, not really a fan of them

[CyberCubed]

I'm starting to notice that Dogpound is really overrated. I've seen a lot of praise for him but after his mutation he's really become nothing more than a one-note character who growls and swings his arm at things.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Rad Brad was better

[MothraLeo]

Kraang. That voice... *shudders*

[CyberCubed]

Kraang. That voice... *shudders*

I thought Nick's Kraang had a very good voice.