What if this movie is like Man of Steel?

[CyberCubed]

I can't help but think of Man of Steel from what we know about this movie. They're taking the Turtles and Shredder into seemingly more abstract territory compared to what we're used to and even the Foot are now a military unit.

The turtles arrested by the Foot reminds me of Superman taken into custody by the US government. Eric Sachs is probably going to play a similar role to Zod in that he wants control over the Turtles but won't get them.

April O'Neil of course is a Lois Lane character especially with her being a reporter again.

The thing about this movie is I worry it will be too much action with a lack of depth for the characters like Man of Steel had.

[hitmonkey]

You mean pretty darn decent yet raked over the coals by whiney critics because it doesn't live up to their outdated and out of touch expectations for the characters? Yeah, I could see that happening.

[Welmanshire]

I can't help but think of Man of Steel from what we know about this movie. They're taking the Turtles and Shredder into seemingly more abstract territory compared to what we're used to and even the Foot are now a military unit.

The turtles arrested by the Foot reminds me of Superman taken into custody by the US government. Eric Sachs is probably going to play a similar role to Zod in that he wants control over the Turtles but won't get them.

April O'Neil of course is a Lois Lane character especially with her being a reporter again.

The thing about this movie is I worry it will be too much action with a lack of depth for the characters like Man of Steel had.

I think there a few things that come across as similar, but not enough to draw seriois conclusions. The likeness of the Turtles and Superman in custody isn't very strong. Superman volunteers himself into custody, he is never distressed or worried he won't make it out. The Turtles however seem quite distressed and genuinely scared about what is happening in the footgae we saw.
I think the only traits the Sachs/Shredder and Zod will share are that they are both main villians and they both want something trapped inside of their enemy (the codex in MOS and the mutagenic properties of the Turtles). Sachs rivalry with the Turles father will mirror that of Zod and Jor-El (if that is the direction of the script).
These movies are two completely different beasts. Hopefully we end up with something nearly as good as MOS from this new Turtles film, although I am skeptical.

[Slade]

Well I loved Man of Steel, so go ahead.

[sgtfbomb]

Personally, with the random and awkward casting, I'm getting the same vibe I got with the GI Joe movies. Hopefully, it's far better than that garbage. Plus, Zack Snyder is far better filmmaker than Jonathan Liebesman, to be perfectly honest. Then again, Liebesman is slightly better than Stephen Sommers and John M. Chu.

[Coola Yagami]

Man of Steel is awesome. We didn't need to see another Superman Returns flop. And it won't compare to TMNT. Can't compare a movie about an actual superhero to a movie about ninjas.

[Welmanshire]

Man of Steel is awesome. We didn't need to see another Superman Returns flop. And it won't compare to TMNT. Can't compare a movie about an actual superhero to a movie about ninjas.

Ninja who are made "super" by being mutated. The X-men are superheroes, are they not?

[Coola Yagami]

Ninja who are made "super" by being mutated. The X-men are superheroes, are they not?

Not in the same way. The Turtles are basically weird looking humanoids with shells and martial arts training. They can't fly, have metallic unbreakable skeletons with metal claws, fire optic blasts or blow up anything they touch. They have no actual super powers.

[Welmanshire]

Not in the same way. The Turtles are basically weird looking humanoids with shells and martial arts training. They can't fly, have metallic unbreakable skeletons with metal claws, fire optic blasts or blow up anything they touch. They have no actual super powers.
Batman is not a superhero?

[Coola Yagami]

Batman is not a superhero?

Not in the literal sense of the word, no.

[Welmanshire]

Not in the literal sense of the word, no.

Top 4 (the 5th was a copy of 4) Google results for ""superhero definition":

1: A fictional hero having extraordinary or superhuman powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person.

2: A hero, especially in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers.

3: A superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of stock character possessing "extraordinary or superhuman powers" and dedicated to protecting the public.

4: A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime.

From what it seems to me, both the Turtles and Batman fall under the literal sense of the word. Both have extraordinary skills in their practices and are dedicated to protecting the public\fighting evil.

[Slap-Happy]

Cubed, you're using the wrong movie to get people to turn against this one.

[Welmanshire]

Cubed, you're using the wrong movie to get people to turn against this one.

No one who has been on here for longer than a visit takes any notice of him anyway. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

Top 4 (the 5th was a copy of 4) Google results for ""superhero definition":

1: A fictional hero having extraordinary or superhuman powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person.

2: A hero, especially in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers.

3: A superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of stock character possessing "extraordinary or superhuman powers" and dedicated to protecting the public.

4: A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime.

From what it seems to me, both the Turtles and Batman fall under the literal sense of the word. Both have extraordinary skills in their practices and are dedicated to protecting the public\fighting evil.

Still the literal sense of the word is super heroes have super powers. Batman and the tmnt have none. Though batman's comics still count as superhero comics and he's in a team of superheroes even though literally he isn't one. The tmnt are a strange lot since technically they're not so much as heroes, just a weird family trying to live their lives.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Still the literal sense of the word is super heroes have super powers. Batman and the tmnt have none. Though batman's comics still count as superhero comics and he's in a team of superheroes even though literally he isn't one. The tmnt are a strange lot since technically they're not so much as heroes, just a weird family trying to live their lives.

they can sort of be classed as heroes, as they have saved the world many times, just they don't get recognition or praise off anyone

[Bob]

I personally loved Man of Steel. It was the Superman film that the character needed.

[Discogod]

You mean pretty darn decent yet raked over the coals by whiney critics because it doesn't live up to their outdated and out of touch expectations for the characters? Yeah, I could see that happening.

No, I think he meant that it shat all over the core concept of the character in order to dazzle slack-jawed idiots with loud explosions.

Which is pretty much exactly what I'm expecting from the TMNT movie.

[ryukenden]

I'm not sure how the Turtles and the Foot would cause massive collateral damage the way Superman, Zod and his minions did.

[The Stryker]

Mediocre and flat?

Well....I guess it'd be in line with the last TMNT movie then.

[Bob]

Mediocre and flat?

Well....I guess it'd be in line with the last TMNT movie then.

And the second and third ones, IMO.

[Coola Yagami]

No, I think he meant that it shat all over the core concept of the character in order to dazzle slack-jawed idiots with loud explosions.

Which is pretty much exactly what I'm expecting from the TMNT movie.

Except it didn't? That's how modern superman comics are. He doesn't just stop bank robbers and solve all the world's problems in 19 seconds anymore. Superman is modernized and the movies should reflect that.

[Welmanshire]

Still the literal sense of the word is super heroes have super powers. Batman and the tmnt have none. Though batman's comics still count as superhero comics and he's in a team of superheroes even though literally he isn't one. The tmnt are a strange lot since technically they're not so much as heroes, just a weird family trying to live their lives.

Well, not really. The literal sense is stated in the definitions I posted. We are obviously both entitled to our opinions and to keep debating the facts is just going to draw the thread off topic. I personally consider the Turtles and Batman as superheroes. How you interpret them is up to you.

[Candy Kappa]

Batman is a superhero, in every way of the word.

His superpower is that he can anything that isn't super powered per se.

heres a small list over his powers from the DC Wiki

Indomitable Will: Although he has no superhuman powers, Batman's unstoppable determination and strength of will make him an extremely formidable opponent. This makes him able to function while tolerating massive amounts of physical pain, and also allows him to resist telepathy or mind control. His willpower is strong enough to operate a Green Lantern Ring when necessary.

Intimidation: It is widely known that Batman has the ability to instill fear in others, even the people that know him best are intimidated by him. Even those who aren't afraid of the likes of Superman fear Batman. His ability to inspire great fear made him eligible for induction into the Sinestro Corps, although he was able to fight off the power ring's control.[240]

Interrogation: Batman is adept in interrogation techniques, often using law enforcement methods as well as torture. Several methods seen include hanging a person over the edge of a building by one leg or chaining a person upside down and beating them. He usually just plain uses his frightening appearance to get answers. "Fear is an excellent motivator" he once said.

Peak Human Conditioning: Through intense training, specialized diet, and biofeedback treatments, Batman represents the pinnacle of human physical prowess. His physical attributes exceeded that of any Olympic level athlete that has ever completed.[citation needed] Strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes and coordination are at peak human perfection. Batman began his physical and mental conditioning when he was 11 and then intense physical training and weight lifting at age 12. He has mastered full body control by the time he was 18. Bruce Wayne, since the age of 15, has created a strict diet to enable his body to develop and operate at its most proficient, along with biofeedback treatments (using portable/non portable machines to stimulate muscles to contraction). Batman has performed amazing physical feats due to his superior physique. He engaged in an intensive regular regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peak condition, and has often defeated opponents whose size, strength, or other powers greatly exceeded his own. He has spent his entire life in pursuit of physical perfection and has attained it through constant intensive training and determination.

Peak Human Strength: Batman regularly bench-presses at least 1000 lbs. during his exercise routine.

Peak Human Reflexes: Bruce's reflexes were honed to such a degree that he has caught one of Green Arrow's arrows in mid flight when he tried to shoot him. He has also been able to dodge point blank gunfire.

Peak Human Speed: He could run at speeds comparable to the finest competing athletes.

Peak Human Endurance: His endurance was comparable to that of the finest Olympic Decathlon participant.[citation needed] His lung capacity was so great that he could hold his breath underwater for 3 minutes and 15 seconds. He can survive in the airless vacuum of space for exactly 27 seconds.

Peak Human Agility: His agility was greater than that of a Chinese acrobat and an Olympic gold medalist gymnast.[citation needed] His main phase of movement was Parkour which he learned in France and used that to scale the cities rooftops in an acrobatic manner.[citation needed]


Master Acrobat: He is proficient in gymnastics and acrobatics.

Master Martial Artist: Bruce is well trained in multiple martial arts, he is known as the man who has mastered 150 forms of martial arts. His primary form of combat[citation needed] is an idiosyncratic admixture of Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Muay Thai, Dragon Style Kung Fu, Boxing, Jujitsu, Ninjitsu and Capoeira.

Weapons Master: Through his martial arts training, he has become an expert on all melee weapons. Wayne has displayed exceptional sword fighting capability and proficiency with knives, sticks and various other weapons. He practices during his combat sessions to keep his skills intact, but he prefers unarmed combat.

Master of Stealth: His Ninjutsu training has made him a master at stealth and capable of breaching high security facilities without being detected.

Expert Marksman: Wayne is an expert marksman skilled. He is skilled with throwing projectile weapons, archery and firearms. He has been practicing such skills since the early days of his training and is almost on par with the Green Arrow in terms of accuracy.[citation needed]

Genius-Level Intellect: Batman is a brilliant, virtually peerless, detective, strategist, scientist, tactician, and commander; he is widely regarded as one of the keenest analytical minds on the planet. Given his lack of superpowers, he often uses cunning and planning to outwit his foes, rather than simply "out-fighting" them.

Polymath: He has studied Biology, Technology, Mathematics, Physics, Mythology, Geography, & History.[citation needed] Gained degrees in Criminal Science, Forensic sciences, Computer Sciences, Chemistry and Engineering by the time he was 21.[citation needed] He has mastered Diverse Environmental Training, Security Systems, and illusion/sleight of hand by the time he was 23.[citation needed] He gained even more degrees in Biology, Physics, Advanced Chemistry, and Technology by the time he was 25.[citation needed] He had learned Forensic Sciences, Medical Sciences, Expanded Computer and Engineering Sciences,[original research?] and Expanded Device Pool use of personal powered armor and system, database creation on underworld crime bosses, rogue's gallery foes and other supervillains; improved material sciences for body armor and micro-machinery by the time he was 26.[citation needed] Has also learned Advanced New Development in Forensic and Medical Sciences.[citation needed]
Master Detective: He is widely considered as the World's Greatest Detective, capable of observation, forensic investigation, and inductive and deductive reasoning of the highest caliber. Human intuition is an unlearnable trait and one of Batman's most effective tools. Given any mystery, he can arrive at the correct conclusions with a fraction of the data.[original research?]

Multilingual: He is able to speak Spanish, French, Latin, German, Japanese, English, Russian, Cantonese, Mandarin, Greek, Portuguese, Arabic, Sanskrit, Hindi, Thai and possibly more.[citation needed]

Master Tactician and Strategist: He commonly utilizes cunning tactics to outwit his foes. He is an excellent leader and at times commands the Justice League and the Outsiders, Batman is known as one of the greatest strategists and tacticians in the dc universe, and once even Aquaman stated the same.

Escapologist: He has been described as second only to Mister Miracle as an escape artist.[citation needed] He has been seen escaping from a Posey straitjacket in less than 52 seconds, and remarked afterwards that the time was way too slow for him.[citation needed]

Multi Vehicular Driving Skills: Bruce is proficient at driving many vehicles like cars, motor bikes, trucks and he is also skillful at driving jets, helicopters and auto boats and small ships.

Tracking: Trained in hunting techniques by African Bushmen (the Ghost Tribes of the Ten-eyed Brotherhood, among others).[citation needed]

Master of Disguise: Has mastered the art of disguise by the time he was 23.[citation needed] Has further learned Expanded Disguise techniques by the time he was 26.[citation needed] Batman has many aliases he uses to infiltrate the underworld or just to go undercover in public situations. His current aliases are: Matches Malone, Thomas Quigley, Ragman, Detective Hawke, Sir Hemingford Grey, Frank Dixon, Gordon Selkirk, and Mr. Fledermaus.[citation needed]

Ventriloquism: Batman is able to project his voice to sound as though it is coming from other places.

Expert Mechanic and Vehicular Driver: Proficient at combat driving. Has learned improved vehicle designs. Was trained and proficient in basic vehicles operations.

Business Management: Bruce Wayne has extensive skills and experience in business management and has through understanding of financial marketing and management and is often known as a example of successful industrialist and businessman on par to Lex Luthor.

Strength level

Peak Human Strength: Batman engages in an intensive exercise regimen, and because of this, his strength, like all other physical attributes, is at the peak of human perfection. He is shown to be able to bench-press at least 1000 lbs.

Yest the fanboys screams he's just a man...


As for the turtles, they're only superheroes in the Fred Wolf cartoon, where they are publicly know and are actively fighting crime.


I don't think TMNT need a MoS movie. TMNT something more "fun" a movie that is more triumphant compared to MoS.

[Leo656]

"Man of Steel" didn't "update" or "modernize" anything, nor did it present even one idea that was original or even all that new. To its credit, much of its ideas were adapted from comics (which itself is a bold step for DC films, which occasionally seem to go out of their way to disavow their own source material), but some of the comics it borrowed from were put out 30 years ago. But some people are over-selling it to ridiculous lengths, talking about how "fresh" and "new" it was. Literally all it did, seriously, the ONLY message that it had, was this:

"You know how you always say Superman movies are boring, because not enough 'splosions and he never punches anyone? Well we made a Superman movie especially for you! He's 'cool' now, right? We also erased his red trunks, because we know THAT'S the whole reason he's not more popular. Also, both his Dads are Robin Hood. Yeah, we hired Russell Crowe, so you're gonna see a lot more of him than Superman. We were gonna call it 'Jor-El: The Movie', but then we said screw it. Nobody in history ever asked to see more of Krypton, but we decided to force-feed you 30 minutes of Star Wars Meets Lord of the Rings, because we hadn't met our CGI quota or ripped off enough other movies yet. Also, super-heroes have to kill to be cool, so we fixed that too. Please tell us we're 'hip' now, and try to ignore the fact that this movie's script is really the pieced-together remnants of a dozen other scripts that were actually way worse than this one, and that all the dialog is horrible. Just go 'WOW!' every time 'Earth's Greatest Hero' destroys an entire city and makes 9/11 look weak. But you know he's a good guy because those *other* guys punching out skyscrapers are wearing black, duh! Please ignore the hundreds of thousands of people Superman killed or failed to save. Because it's MODERN TIMES, BAY-BAY! It ain't gotta make sense, it ain't gotta be pure, it's just gotta go BANG!"

I liked the movie. More than a lot of people did, actually. But I care more about a movie that feels like Superman, more than I care about exploiting the character for the sake of making him "modern" or "more popular". And literally nothing about the movie felt like Superman; it was sterile and hollow and felt like something that was focus-grouped into existence. Like they went down a list with a pen and checked off every criticism of Superman anyone ever had, no matter how inane or juvenile, and tried to "fix" it. And in doing so, it ended up pleasing people who didn't like the character to begin with, and pissing off a lot of people who already did. And it puzzles me why you'd want to alienate your existing fanbase for the sake of gambling on a new one, but that's Hollywood for you.

To repeat: I did like the movie, and for every criticism I can throw at it, I can defend it (and I have, I've had to defend this movie to a lot of people... I don't think they'll ever make a Superman movie that pleases everyone... so I don't think that should be the goal anymore). The only thing I can't excuse is the dialog. That was awful. But people are seeing things in the movie that simply aren't there. It's not THAT good. They made a Superman movie and forgot to make it feel Superman-y. The action scenes, fine, I get it... it takes more than CGI buildings falling down to impress me, especially when they go down so fast, so many, that it loses all meaning (No, seriously, c'mon... HOW MANY innocent people did he/they kill?!). I don't think it "shat on" the character or what he stands for, but I do think they kind of missed the point of it all. When he stands there kissing Lois and all of Metropolis is in ruins and untold death lies in his wake, even I was like, "Dude... you're an assh*le. At least pretend to check for survivors with your X-ray vision. No? Ok then. You're a terrific symbol of hope. Now I 'hope' you're done breaking sh*t." And then they did ANOTHER fight scene, because 274 of them wasn't enough. :roll:

Do I think the TMNT movie will be like MoS? In some ways. It's definitely going to be cobbled together from a bunch of rejected scripts, so that'll be the same. And they're apparently putting things into it that they've seen people cry on message boards about wanting to see, so that's the same. I don't think it will have the same tone at all; MoS takes itself SO seriously, it becomes a f*cking parody of itself, while TMNT looks like it's going to be so goofy... that it will become a parody of itself. Also, some people liked MoS enough to proclaim it "the best movie of the year," (which it might be... there's been a lot of sh*t out this year, so it may win by default). I can safely predict no one, but no one, will say TMNT will be the best movie of the year when it comes out.

It's also not likely to make over $600 million, either. So, in the most important way, no, it will NOT be like Man of Steel.

[Eiko]

If this new movie is like Man of Steel i will be looking forward to it.

[chrisdude]

"Man of Steel" didn't "update" or "modernize" anything, nor did it present even one idea that was original or even all that new. To its credit, much of its ideas were adapted from comics (which itself is a bold step for DC films, which occasionally seem to go out of their way to disavow their own source material), but some of the comics it borrowed from were put out 30 years ago. But some people are over-selling it to ridiculous lengths, talking about how "fresh" and "new" it was. Literally all it did, seriously, the ONLY message that it had, was this:

"You know how you always say Superman movies are boring, because not enough 'splosions and he never punches anyone? Well we made a Superman movie especially for you! He's 'cool' now, right? We also erased his red trunks, because we know THAT'S the whole reason he's not more popular. Also, both his Dads are Robin Hood. Yeah, we hired Russell Crowe, so you're gonna see a lot more of him than Superman. We were gonna call it 'Jor-El: The Movie', but then we said screw it. Nobody in history ever asked to see more of Krypton, but we decided to force-feed you 30 minutes of Star Wars Meets Lord of the Rings, because we hadn't met our CGI quota or ripped off enough other movies yet. Also, super-heroes have to kill to be cool, so we fixed that too. Please tell us we're 'hip' now, and try to ignore the fact that this movie's script is really the pieced-together remnants of a dozen other scripts that were actually way worse than this one, and that all the dialog is horrible. Just go 'WOW!' every time 'Earth's Greatest Hero' destroys an entire city and makes 9/11 look weak. But you know he's a good guy because those *other* guys punching out skyscrapers are wearing black, duh! Please ignore the hundreds of thousands of people Superman killed or failed to save. Because it's MODERN TIMES, BAY-BAY! It ain't gotta make sense, it ain't gotta be pure, it's just gotta go BANG!"

I liked the movie. More than a lot of people did, actually. But I care more about a movie that feels like Superman, more than I care about exploiting the character for the sake of making him "modern" or "more popular". And literally nothing about the movie felt like Superman; it was sterile and hollow and felt like something that was focus-grouped into existence. Like they went down a list with a pen and checked off every criticism of Superman anyone ever had, no matter how inane or juvenile, and tried to "fix" it. And in doing so, it ended up pleasing people who didn't like the character to begin with, and pissing off a lot of people who already did. And it puzzles me why you'd want to alienate your existing fanbase for the sake of gambling on a new one, but that's Hollywood for you.

To repeat: I did like the movie, and for every criticism I can throw at it, I can defend it (and I have, I've had to defend this movie to a lot of people... I don't think they'll ever make a Superman movie that pleases everyone... so I don't think that should be the goal anymore). The only thing I can't excuse is the dialog. That was awful. But people are seeing things in the movie that simply aren't there. It's not THAT good. They made a Superman movie and forgot to make it feel Superman-y. The action scenes, fine, I get it... it takes more than CGI buildings falling down to impress me, especially when they go down so fast, so many, that it loses all meaning (No, seriously, c'mon... HOW MANY innocent people did he/they kill?!). I don't think it "shat on" the character or what he stands for, but I do think they kind of missed the point of it all. When he stands there kissing Lois and all of Metropolis is in ruins and untold death lies in his wake, even I was like, "Dude... you're an assh*le. At least pretend to check for survivors with your X-ray vision. No? Ok then. You're a terrific symbol of hope. Now I 'hope' you're done breaking sh*t." And then they did ANOTHER fight scene, because 274 of them wasn't enough. :roll:

Do I think the TMNT movie will be like MoS? In some ways. It's definitely going to be cobbled together from a bunch of rejected scripts, so that'll be the same. And they're apparently putting things into it that they've seen people cry on message boards about wanting to see, so that's the same. I don't think it will have the same tone at all; MoS takes itself SO seriously, it becomes a f*cking parody of itself, while TMNT looks like it's going to be so goofy... that it will become a parody of itself. Also, some people liked MoS enough to proclaim it "the best movie of the year," (which it might be... there's been a lot of sh*t out this year, so it may win by default). I can safely predict no one, but no one, will say TMNT will be the best movie of the year when it comes out.

It's also not likely to make over $600 million, either. So, in the most important way, no, it will NOT be like Man of Steel.Had the codex idea really been used before? I don't have a ton of Superman comics, but that I hadn't seen.

[Zachatello00]

If this new movie is like Man of Steel i will be looking forward to it.

Agree! Man of steel was awesome!

[Leo656]

Had the codex idea really been used before? I don't have a ton of Superman comics, but that I hadn't seen.


Not specifically that, but the idea of Kryptonians genetically modifying their citizens and artificially conceiving them has been explored before. While not exactly the same thing, one example is in the "Man of Steel" mini-series, issue #1; Jor-El removes Kal-El from his "birthing matrix" before he was fully "born", and Lara remarks that it's forbidden and has been for centuries, as Kryptonians in that mythology were genetically bred in artificial wombs. It is different, but in the same vein, as in the film where Kal-El was the first naturally born child on Krypton in centuries, and it was later explored in the comic books that cloning and various forms of genetic manipulation had long been a part of Krypton's society (in turn slowly robbing them of their humanity) and in fact had played a role in Krypton's eventual destruction. The wars fought on Krypton that started the lethal chain reaction were fought over cloning and genetic experiments, specifically the morality of them. Also, it was revealed later on that Kryptonians had a defect built into their genetic code that prohibited them from leaving Krypton's atmosphere, or they would die. Jor-El specifically removed this defect from Kal-El, as he knew well in advance he had to send him away from Krypton if he had any hope of survival. This idea was later quietly shelved, as it came from a time when Kal-El was literally meant to be the last and only Kryptonian, and later on the marketing department really wanted to bring back Supergirl and Zod, and it hadn't really been mentioned a whole lot anyway.

They both condensed and fleshed it out a little bit for the film. It's an idea I enjoyed; carrying all of the Kryptonian DNA archives inside his cell structure literally makes Kal-El "The Last Son of Krypton". I'm not sure they explained it as well as they could have, though. But if you go down the list and check off everything that was a comics reference, it's a LOT. They even showed one of Krypton's half-destroyed moons; that's a pretty obscure reference which I quite enjoyed.

I could also buy Doomsday in this universe, as he was a WMD engineered on ancient Krypton that escaped and traveled the cosmos destroying worlds. That kind of beast never really "fit" into any of the comics' versions of Krypton, even ancient Krypton, it never looked right but after seeing some of the beasts they used for the film I could definitely see Doomsday coming from there.

[TurtleMaster4]

I thought Man of Steel was actually a good movie (not the best it could have been)

Anyways, you shouldn't compare movies and say they might be similar just because of similar scenes photos or trailers, at least not until it is released.

[sgtfbomb]

Unfortunately, Jonathan Liebesman is no Zack Snyder. Fortunately, he is no Stephen Sommers (or John M. Chu) either.

I actually wouldn't mind Snyder doing a Ninja Turtle film. However, I'd probably be more interested in him doing a straight take on the original, Mirage material, which will never-ever-ever happen.

[CyberCubed]

So many people hated Man of Steel. And I'm not talking about movie critics, I'm talking about hardcore comic and Superman fans.

I browse over all the Man of Steel review threads on comic book websites and superhero forums and the opinion is very evenly split. Some people loved the movie while others thought it was terrible or disappointing.

[Leo656]

There's a lot of the typical internet over-exaggeration, in both directions. It was good but it still wasn't spot on. There's tons of stuff wrong and right with it, and some of the negatives mean more to some people than others.

[CyberCubed]

There's a lot of the typical internet over-exaggeration, in both directions. It was good but it still wasn't spot on. There's tons of stuff wrong and right with it, and some of the negatives mean more to some people than others.

I think what people hated was the lack of Clark Kent, too much destruction of the city, and not enough of a beacon of light. Superman is supposed to be our savior and a godsend, but this movie didn't give that impression.

[Coola Yagami]

Then those people have to read more comicbooks. They sound like casuals that only remember the old series and black and white stuff and never read an actual Superman comic. Whatever happens in the movie pales in comparison to whenever Superman and Darkseid throw down.

And of course he's not the beacon of hope yet. Noone knows him yet. That's what he becomes in the end. I'd like to see how many people are gonna randomly embrace a guy that comes out of the nowhere and has the power to destroy us all if he wanted to. But hey, he wears a cape. He must be out beacon of hope right?

Complaining about Man of Steel for having too much action without knowing that's how it is the comics is like a casual TMNT fan complaining the the new movie has too much ninja action in it.

And complaining about his missing red trunks... have you read the comics nowadays?

[Jester]

Haven't seen MoS, but has Liebsman even done enough films for people to say, "He's no Zach Snyder!"?

[Slade]

I think what people hated was the lack of Clark Kent, too much destruction of the city, and not enough of a beacon of light. Superman is supposed to be our savior and a godsend, but this movie didn't give that impression.

Out of all the complaints, this is the one that pisses me off the most. I'm sure all of this needs to be said in the Man of Steel thread, but I remember when Returns came out, people wanted more action, more destruction. Now they got it and they complain....


Then those people have to read more comicbooks. They sound like casuals that only remember the old series and black and white stuff and never read an actual Superman comic. Whatever happens in the movie pales in comparison to whenever Superman and Darkseid throw down.

And of course he's not the beacon of hope yet. Noone knows him yet. That's what he becomes in the end. I'd like to see how many people are gonna randomly embrace a guy that comes out of the nowhere and has the power to destroy us all if he wanted to. But hey, he wears a cape. He must be out beacon of hope right?

Complaining about Man of Steel for having too much action without knowing that's how it is the comics is like a casual TMNT fan complaining the the new movie has too much ninja action in it.

And complaining about his missing red trunks... have you read the comics nowadays?

:thumbsup:

[chrisdude]

Then those people have to read more comicbooks. They sound like casuals that only remember the old series and black and white stuff and never read an actual Superman comic. Whatever happens in the movie pales in comparison to whenever Superman and Darkseid throw down.

And of course he's not the beacon of hope yet. Noone knows him yet. That's what he becomes in the end. I'd like to see how many people are gonna randomly embrace a guy that comes out of the nowhere and has the power to destroy us all if he wanted to. But hey, he wears a cape. He must be out beacon of hope right?

Complaining about Man of Steel for having too much action without knowing that's how it is the comics is like a casual TMNT fan complaining the the new movie has too much ninja action in it.

And complaining about his missing red trunks... have you read the comics nowadays?Most people don't read comic books. Most people are "casuals." Thus, most people's vision of Superman is still Richard Donner/Christopher Reeve's version. That's the last time Superman reached most people. (I'd argue Returns, and maybe even Smallville, is an extension of the same Superman.)

Those movies weren't about putting Superman into the real world. They were fantasy. Everyone applauded Superman, and nobody feared him. Iconic, perception-shaping interpretations of Superman were created before everyone became so hellbent on forcing superheroes into realistic settings.

And I wouldn't fault Man of Steel for having too much destruction, but rather spending too much of time in the movie showing it, and doing a poor job of making Superman appear to care. As (I think) I've said before, Reeve's Superman would have been weeping and digging bodies out of the rubble, after that fight.

In Superman II, Zod declared that Superman's weakness was that he cared. Zod discovered that he could keep Superman from fighting by endangering people. Faced with a choice between fighting Zod and saving people, he chose saving people. I think that pretty much encapsulates the difference. This Superman only saved people when he could do it without altering his flight path. They even wrote the story so the conflict was half his own business.

[Leo656]

I've been reading Superman for 30 years, own and have read about 3000 comics JUST of Superman (don't ask about the rest of what I own, I just don't have the time), have seen every movie and cartoon shows multiple times (by "multiple times" I mean it's comparable to how some folks obsess over Star Wars)... I'll put my Kal Kredentials against anyone's. Sorry, there is not a person alive who is gonna tell me I don't "Get It". And for everything MoS did right, it still felt "off". It was big, it was loud, it was "epic"... And it needed to be those things. But what it was NOT, that every Superman interpretation should be, is "Triumphant". Superman lost. He didn't triumph; if Zod couldn't resurrect and rule Krypton, his only option was to die a warrior's death, and he forced Superman to do it.

I get that it's all Year One etc. etc., it's all part of having him grow into being the hero he eventually has to be, but seriously, they could easily have put SOMEthing in there to offset all the doom and gloom. For everything "Superman Returns" missed on, there were a few moments - the first time we see the boots landing on he space plane, him catching the plane in the ballfield, the whole plane scene really, him dragging the boat out of the water, among many others - that completely "felt" like Superman, everything from the visuals of the shots to the musical composition and the general uplifting spirit accompanying each of those scenes was exactly "right" for Superman.

I have a theory that "Man Of Steel" would have played better with a more uplifting soundtrack; I love Hans Zimmer, but again, the music was very sterile and just sort of there. He explained it was a stylistic choice, to make the music more subdued because Clark is a more subdued hero in this film. And that makes sense, and it's their choice to make, but I don't feel it was quite right. The "Returns" soundtrack is still by far the best Superman soundtrack ever put down, barely surpassing the original as it expands greatly on it and adds a lot of depth to it. For everything that movie wasn't great with, the music was terrific.

I'm glad people really like the movie, and I really liked it as well, but a few tweaks and it would have been even better. I'm excited for the sequel, but hopefully they'll make Superman more fun again. The Iron Man, Thor, Avengers movies were all fun, and if they put some lighter moments earlier in MoS I think the much darker second half would have been easier for some people to accept. I'd almost put money on the sequel being better.

[CyberCubed]

Most people don't read comic books. Most people are "casuals." Thus, most people's vision of Superman is still Richard Donner/Christopher Reeve's version. That's the last time Superman reached most people.

Uh, most of today's "casuals" have never seen the Richard Donner movies. That may have been true back in the 80's and most of the 90's, but not today's fans of 2000's and onward.

Its the same wrong assumption people have that everyone has seen the Adam West Batman show. We're not in the 70's anymore, most people growing up with Batman from the 90's onward have NEVER seen that show. The only reason I did is because I saw it on reruns on a cable channel.

People are talking about movies and TV shows made around 30 years ago, this isn't like the Star Wars films, most people today HAVEN'T seen those versions. Hell there's a large group of people nowadays who have never seen the 1989 Batman movie anymore. Time passes, an entire new generation of young adults came in the 2000's replacing the older fans from the 80's and 90's.

[chrisdude]

Uh, most of today's "casuals" have never seen the Richard Donner movies. That may have been true back in the 80's and most of the 90's, but not today's fans of 2000's and onward.

Its the same wrong assumption people have that everyone has seen the Adam West Batman show. We're not in the 70's anymore, most people growing up with Batman from the 90's onward have NEVER seen that show. The only reason I did is because I saw it on reruns on a cable channel.

People are talking about movies and TV shows made around 30 years ago, this isn't like the Star Wars films, most people today HAVEN'T seen those versions. Hell there's a large group of people nowadays who have never seen the 1989 Batman movie anymore. Time passes, an entire new generation of young adults came in the 2000's replacing the older fans from the 80's and 90's.We're talking about fans and their expectations, not younger people who don't have expectations. The age of the movies is a bit beside the point when nothing has surpassed it in popularity since. It was still the most-known interpretation of the character. And it may still be, even with Man Of Steel.

[CyberCubed]

We're talking about fans and their expectations, not younger people who don't have expectations. The age of the movies is a bit beside the point when nothing has surpassed it in popularity since. It was still the most-known interpretation of the character. And it may still be, even with Man Of Steel.

Its well known to old adults or hardcore Superman fans who see everything. Not to most young adults boring in the late 80's or 90's. I never saw the first two Superman movies until recently, and I've known the Superman character himself since the early 90's.

Hell I'd wager all the people who grew up watching Smallville for the last 10 years probably compared Man of Steel to that instead.

[sdp]

I loved MoS.

Personally, if this isn't going to be a straight Mirage adaptation or more faithful which is what I wanted. But it's Ok, if they're going to have influences of the OT etc, then I hope at least they go batshit crazy and make a fun movie.

[madyankees]

Man of Steel was as a whole an enjoyable movie. It wasnt epic movie of the year stuff but I went in expecting a different take to Superman and that's exactly what I got.

If TMNT is gonna be equally enjoyable, great. The truth is everyone's got their own take on how a TMNT movie should be or how a Superman movie should be. Everyone including the guys making the movies. What we watch at the cinema is basically the movie maker's take on <insert superhero>.

We can either hope like crazy that the movie makers share the exact same views as us OR have no expectations of how the movie should be OR just give and take.

[chrisdude]

Its well known to old adults or hardcore Superman fans who see everything. Not to most young adults boring in the late 80's or 90's. I never saw the first two Superman movies until recently, and I've known the Superman character himself since the early 90's.

Hell I'd wager all the people who grew up watching Smallville for the last 10 years probably compared Man of Steel to that instead.Firmly rooted in film lore, from what I've seen (before they decided to stretch it ten years). Even down to costumes and sets, and actually using actors from the movies. But I can't say I followed the show.

But you didn't hear anybody talking about Henry Cavill stepping into Tom Welling's shoes. :ohwell:

And we're talking about the people who complained. The kids are happy.

[TigerClaw]

When i was a kid, My first exposure to Superman was through the Superfriends cartoons, Then I saw those movies.

[CrazySquirrel]

Man of Steel was boring and didn't give me any reason to care about any characters so I hope not. Fight scenes were at least cool looking. I could easily see me hating the tone or story and the fight scenes being cool... which would be better than nothing.

[Electric]

I think what people hated was the lack of Clark Kent, too much destruction of the city, and not enough of a beacon of light. Superman is supposed to be our savior and a godsend, but this movie didn't give that impression.

I hate to be the one to side with Cyber here, but in MoS I did feel like the destruction of the city was a little...overdone? I mean, after they punch each other through buildings 3 or 4 times I think they could try something else.

Dont get me wrong, I loved the movie, but this was just one thing I didnt necessarily care for.

[Bauer536]

I recently watched Smallville, and I just got to say that I am disappointed in Zack Snyder. What I saw in Tom Welling's Clark Kent was Superman. Even after watching clips from the original films with Christopher Reeve was like magic. He was, indeed, Superman. Henry Cavil could have done more with his performance in Man of Steel, but failed. There should have been a movie with the Smallville cast. I would have loved that.:tcool: But NO! We get this travesty instead!:tmad:

Even if Superman were to kill in the comics (old or new), I don't support that. Some heroes may kill, because I'm okay with the turtles going after Shredder. But Superman should NEVER kill. The minute he broke Zod's neck in the film, I was like, "What?! You're Superman! Everything you stand for does not allow this!" It takes away everything that makes Superman an icon. Besides, Cavil's Superman didn't even save many. He could have tried not to hit any skyscrapers, therefore, there wouldn't be that many deaths. I was with this film when we started on Krypton, and by the time we reach Earth, the story got ridiculous. Honestly, I now respect Superman Returns more for sticking to the source material.

If the new TMNT film has this format, then expect it to be lifeless, boring, and untrue to the source material (and I mean if Shredder is not Japanese or if the turtles are aliens, which they should not be by this time).

[chrisdude]

Seems like some people think comics are the gold standard of storytelling, and that while we can criticize movies and cartoons, whatever happens in comics is beyond reproach, even if those comics are written 30, 50, or 75 years after the character is created. So, whatever happens in today's Superman comics is right and permissible in movies. :roll:

There is certainly something to be said about the freedom of storytelling that the format allows, but it's not like comic writers can't make decisions to the detriment of a character, or that their stories are more valuable or important.

[Plasticplayhouse]

I enjoyed MoS. I found both good and bad with it, but overall it was enjoyable. It is extremely rare that a movie is done to perfection, especially one based on comics. Most comics have multiple verses. I may find certain points most desirable and someone else may find them distasteful. Sure, I still believe that the majority of Hollywood makes films geared mainly towards profits, but nobody makes a movie with the intention of being a dud.

In my eyes, the best tmnt film trilogy would consist of the first film based off the first 11 issues of volume one, the second film based off return to NY, and the final would be the city at war arch. Heck, I'd even love a film based off of the River series. Others here may prefer a film based off of 4kids. Or maybe they want a film that ties in everything. Point is, the best we can truly ask for is a quality entertaining film that is well written and tastefully done.

[sgtfbomb]

There's a lot of the typical internet over-exaggeration, in both directions. It was good but it still wasn't spot on. There's tons of stuff wrong and right with it, and some of the negatives mean more to some people than others.

My favorite over-exaggeration about MoS has been about there is "too much action." The opening has a lot of action and the ending has a lot of action, but there is a lot of story in between. Most of the issues I had with the film were really with how they handled Jonathan Kent, and that tornado sequence was as lame as all get out.

[CyberCubed]

I hated the alien invasion aspect of the movie. At one point it felt like any of those generic B-movie alien invasion films.

I would have rathered Zod just come with two minions like in Superman II rather than a fleet.

[JTH]

As a "Popcorn Flick", Man of Steel is pretty good, but for a movie that is supposed to be the first step for a Justice League Movie, it didn't hardly do anything to expand the story or the DC universe, hell it barely expanded the Superman universe.

[Slade]

Snyder already said Man of Steel 2 would be made before they actually did anything with a Justice League film.

[chrisdude]

To my knowledge, DC hasn't backed off their 2015 Justice League release date. And Wall Street Journal says their insider says MoS2 is being fast tracked for 2014 (If this is true, we should immediately see the whole crew go back into production). It seems ridiculous, but it's not like they don't know how long it takes, or like they didn't know they were doing Man Of Steel. It could just be that they haven't publicly adjusted the timetable. But it makes me wonder if MoS2 might revolve around introducing JLA characters.

[CyberCubed]

They could easily introduce Wonder Woman in Man of Steel 2. Not sure if they should though.

[Coola Yagami]

They could easily introduce Wonder Woman in Man of Steel 2. Not sure if they should though.

She needs her own movie. She's one of the Trinity and should not be a random guest star in another movie.

[CyberCubed]

She needs her own movie. She's one of the Trinity and should not be a random guest star in another movie.

Not many people would go to a movie with a female superhero. Same reason the Wonder Woman TV show was turned down by NBC.

[Coola Yagami]

Not many people would go to a movie with a female superhero. Same reason the Wonder Woman TV show was turned down by NBC.

Then those people are idiots. Especially since Wonder Woman is THE female superhero. Someone's gotta start writing a good script for her. And now. Especially if they ever want to get serious with a Justice League script.

[sgtfbomb]

I think the issues with Wonder Woman don't stem for her gender. It's that her character doesn't lend itself to a live action film in our day. I wouldn't mind seeing her in a film, but I'd much rather it be a Justice League film than a film of her own.

[Coola Yagami]

I think the issues with Wonder Woman don't stem for her gender. It's that her character doesn't lend itself to a live action film in our day. I wouldn't mind seeing her in a film, but I'd much rather it be a Justice League film than a film of her own.

Then our day sucks. I'd love to see Wonder Woman throw down with Cheetah as Ares wages war all over the planet.

[NinjaPug]

Not many people would go to a movie with a female superhero. Same reason the Wonder Woman TV show was turned down by NBC.

The WW show wasn't picked up because it was absolute crap. Had nothing to do with the fact that it was about a female superhero.

[Coola Yagami]

And for some reason I bet it didn't have her throw down with cheetah while ares filled the world with war. Even the avengers could have been crap if it was written horribly.

If they want a jl movie they better get serious about Wonder Woman. And reboot batman.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Unfortunately, Jonathan Liebesman is no Zack Snyder. Fortunately, he is no Stephen Sommers (or John M. Chu) either.

I actually wouldn't mind Snyder doing a Ninja Turtle film. However, I'd probably be more interested in him doing a straight take on the original, Mirage material, which will never-ever-ever happen.

it would happen, but it will probably be a fan film

[ZariusTwo]

You mean pretty darn decent yet raked over the coals by whiney critics because it doesn't live up to their outdated and out of touch expectations for the characters? Yeah, I could see that happening.

If having a strong, well-mannered noble courageous and mericful hero with a great concern for humanity is "out of touch", I don't want to be in with the thick little crowd who think "LOL DEVASTATION AND COLD-BLOODED MURDER" present a solid foundation for good storytelling.

I can watch the Reeves movies forever. I can watch MOS only twice, and the second time will be pretty much to fanedit it.

[RayFillet]

You mean pretty darn decent yet raked over the coals by whiney critics because it doesn't live up to their outdated and out of touch expectations for the characters? Yeah, I could see that happening.

haha nice!

[Leofan26]

Eh, sure why not? These days it seems like they are trying turn these type of films more realistic LOL. Just at least watch the film before jumping to conclusions k? Your doing that a lot right now.

[redsai4lex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajfrM3OTCAI&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Daj frM3OTCAI&has_verified=1

[IMJ]

The thing about this movie is I worry it will be too much action with a lack of depth for the characters like Man of Steel had.

Interesting observation. What could this movie have done to enrich the depth of the characters? In what ways were they shallow?

[Vivi]

If you mean flashy but lacking heart, then it's entirely possible. I can't think of the last really good movie I've seen recently...but I haven't been watching that many movies of late. High production value tv series is where it's at these days. Love to see TMNT like that one day.

[gobo]

What if this movie is like Man of Steel?
Good question. What if this movie leads to a Mighty Mutanimals film? O_o

[chrisdude]

To my knowledge, DC hasn't backed off their 2015 Justice League release date. And Wall Street Journal says their insider says MoS2 is being fast tracked for 2014 (If this is true, we should immediately see the whole crew go back into production). It seems ridiculous, but it's not like they don't know how long it takes, or like they didn't know they were doing Man Of Steel. It could just be that they haven't publicly adjusted the timetable. But it makes me wonder if MoS2 might revolve around introducing JLA characters.Yoooo! I was kinda almost right!

Sort of!

[Cure]

Yoooo! I was kinda almost right!

Sort of!

Now make a thread about it to gloat to Snakeweed.

[chrisdude]

Now make a thread about it to gloat to Snakeweed.I don't follow. :ohwell:

[Cure]

I don't follow. :ohwell:

Haha, it was a joke in reference to this thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=43794). I know you weren't really gloating, just having fun.