April and her development

[BabyTurtles]

guys...I usually don't have anything bad to say about TMNT 2012 (cause I love it XD) but something has been bugging the heck outta me...:(

it's April.....and her development? she just doesn't seem to be her own character....

everyone here almost always associates her with Donnie.......isn't that a problem?......it's always Donnie and her this....Donnie and her that....well what about April just doing stuff for April or with other characters???

don't get me wrong
my problem isn't that she's a love interest to Donnie...my problem is that's ALL her character seems to have time for.

she's either worrying about her father...training....or in some scenario with Donnie. she doesn't seem to have time to build a relationship with the turtles (except Don) or just hang out....she says she's like a sister..but I have a hard time seeing it. (I can only name 3 times she's done something different...and each were extremely short moments)


I know she's not supposed to show up EVERY episode...but when she does, I expect her to do something other than just be driven by the plot
I mean she hasn't shown up for 2 episodes.....and the first thing that's mentioned when she does is Don's crush on her....

I...kinda hope next season she isn't anyones love interest...not Don's...or Casey's....I just want to like April.

I just need to know if I'm alone here.....(end rant)

(I think the only scene that made me happy was when Leo went to her for his girl problems)

[Slade]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't really care to much about April. Never have.

[BabyTurtles]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't really care to much about April. Never have.

I'm sadly starting to not care either...she's become "that" girl to me now...

I've always loved April...but for the first time Karai is becoming my favorite.

[Martin]

Mmm, I don't know. We've seen quite a bit of her personality so far, and since it's a show about turtles, it's reasonable that she doesn't get as much screentime as the others. I'm sure, however, that we'll see her being more developed once she becomes a kickass companion for the turltes (whenever that happens).

I've always loved April...but for the first time Karai is becoming my favorite.

Karai is a completely different character, and I don't really think that her being you favorite has anything to do with the level of development that April had so far. It's just that Karai, as a character, is much more interesting for numerous reasons.

[CyberCubed]

In episodes that focus on her she gets a decent amount of development.

[BabyTurtles]

Mmm, I don't know. We've seen quite a bit of her personality so far, and since it's a show about turtles, it's reasonable that she doesn't get as much screentime as the others. I'm sure, however, that we'll see her being more developed once she becomes a kickass companion for the turltes (whenever that happens).

but that's just it...I want to see her personality before she becomes a kick-butt girl. why do we need to wait?

I saw April's personality in 2003....and she didn't know how to kick butt till....what season 2? or season 3?

I don't think that's a good excuse. :(

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I really like it when Donnie goes all Socially Awkward Turtle around her. I'm sorry, but that's enough for me. :D

[BabyTurtles]

I really like it when Donnie goes all Socially Awkward Turtle around her. I'm sorry, but that's enough for me. :D

she should'nt just have to be the girl that makes Donnie socially awkward should she?? ..thats my problem..

she should be a little more....

[Martin]

I saw April's personality in 2003....and she didn't know how to kick butt till....what season 2? or season 3?

2k3's April was much older than this one, so that could account for the added personality.

but that's just it...I want to see her personality before she becomes a kick-butt girl. why do we need to wait?

Oh, don't be silly! If they waste time actually developing characters, they can't introduce random mutants every week :|

I really like it when Donnie goes all Socially Awkward Turtle around her. I'm sorry, but that's enough for me. :D

xD

[JTH]

Well, after TCRI, we should have come to the conclusion that this was going to happen. Makes it kind of hard for April to be her and do her own thing when she becomes priority #1 to everyone and her development would be solely based on why The Kraang want her.

Personally I don't think they could reveal anymore, heck they only revealed a couple things about her development and the story has changed dramatically every time.

Baby steps were needed here to start, but the finale is pretty much going to answer everything we're wondering about so I personally don't think it's much to be bugged about.

[BabyTurtles]

Well, after TCRI, we should have come to the conclusion that this was going to happen. Makes it kind of hard for April to be her and do her own thing when she becomes priority #1 to everyone and her development would be solely based on why The Kraang want her.

Personally I don't think they could reveal anymore, heck they only revealed a couple things about her development and the story has changed dramatically every time.

Baby steps were needed here to start, but the finale is pretty much going to answer everything we're wondering about so I personally don't think it's much to be bugged about.

it's not revealing stuff about her character that I want....

I want to see her personality. I want to see her interacting with the turtles more......she doesn't NEED an episode....just a couple more scenes......some of them could have been switch out for those Donnie/April scenes.

I mean has she ever TALKED to Raph?? once or twice maybe?

[Luckyday]

Even though it does make me worried, I'm sure once the others characters like Irma start appearing in the show, we'll have interactions which will help to flesh out her character and are not just Donnie and April.

[BabyTurtles]

Even though it does make me worried, I'm sure once the others characters like Irma start appearing in the show, we'll have interactions which will help to flesh out her character and are not just Donnie and April.

I guess you're right....It just kinda sucks that season 1 is almost over and we didn't get much from her other than a love interest 60% of the time....I mean she has the other turtles to talk to....it shouldn't have to be only Don and April...

[Martin]

Well, after TCRI, we should have come to the conclusion that this was going to happen. Makes it kind of hard for April to be her and do her own thing when she becomes priority #1 to everyone and her development would be solely based on why The Kraang want her.

Personally I don't think they could reveal anymore, heck they only revealed a couple things about her development and the story has changed dramatically every time.

Baby steps were needed here to start, but the finale is pretty much going to answer everything we're wondering about so I personally don't think it's much to be bugged about.

Do plot twists count as character development? You do bring very valid points though: the writers are clearly hiding stuff, and by overexposing us to April, they might be inclined to give something away before schedule. However, I don't see how a few random 'character moments' at the lair would have been detrimental in any way. A talk with Leo, a fun moment with mikey; anything that would make April more relatable. After all, so far all our interaction with her has been very plot driven, and there hasn't really been any 'off' moments in which she just chimed in a conversation without serving any specific plot idea.

[JTH]

I mean has she ever TALKED to Raph?? once or twice maybe?

Well if I was being chased by a mutant pigeon and then got laughed at on multiple occasions talking about my peril by Raph like it was all a big joke, I probably wouldn't want to talk to him either. :D

[BabyTurtles]

Do plot twists count as character development? You do bring very valid points though: the writers are clearly hiding stuff, and by overexposing us to April, they might be inclined to give something away before schedule. However, I don't see how a few random 'character moments' at the lair would have been detrimental in any way. A talk with Leo, a fun moment with mikey; anything that would make April more relatable. After all, so far all our interaction with her has been very plot driven, and there hasn't really been any 'off' moments in which she just chimed in a conversation without serving any specific plot idea.

This!! this is what I meant!! XD

[TigerClaw]

April is a very important part of the Turtles live. Shes there only human companion in the real world

[BabyTurtles]

April is a very important part of the Turtles live. Shes there only human companion in the real world

I'm not saying she isn't....I just want to be proved it.

they want to make sure she's safe....but they don't seem close...they don't feel close..(again except Don)

a few more scenes with them goofing off.....or spending some random time together would have helped....

[drgon78]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, this incarnation of April is the best version they have done. Besides it can't be helped if April doesn't get as much air time as the turtles since it is there show not hers and it's only the first season. I would like to see her get more air time and interact more with the other turtles, not just Donnie and Splinter, and some human characters like her aunt and human friends. But I still think she has more character development then Karai or any of the other villians.

[TigerClaw]

Maybe she will develop more as a character in the 2nd season since shes getting some Ninja trainer from Splinter as well.

[BabyTurtles]

Maybe she will develop more as a character in the 2nd season since shes getting some Ninja trainer from Splinter as well.

that would be nice and I'm sure she will.....

I just hope with Casey coming she doesn't go back to being just a love interest...

[Donatello19]

I agree. Although her and Donnie's relationship is cute, I don't want to see April be used as a "prop" if you will. I'm sure her role will get better after the whole Kraang thing.

[JTH]

they want to make sure she's safe....but they don't seem close...they don't feel close..(again except Don)

a few more scenes with them goofing off.....or spending some random time together would have helped....

Keep in mind though, it's only been 2 episodes since she's been "forced" to live with them, which she didn't want to do in the first place. Storyline wise, April would still be in the "Why do I have to stay down here" period, probably not in the mood to want to talk to anyone. The fact that in the finale promo, she was captured on the surface (And appeared to be alone) should tell ya how she feels about having to live in the sewers. Not too swell.

[BabyTurtles]

Keep in mind though, it's only been 2 episodes since she's been "forced" to live with them, which she didn't want to do in the first place. Storyline wise, April would still be in the "Why do I have to stay down here" period, probably not in the mood to want to talk to anyone. The fact that in the finale promo, she was captured on the surface (And appeared to be alone) should tell ya how she feels about having to live in the sewers. Not too swell.

...well IDK...she was supposed to be living with them...but we didn't see her there for 2 episodes....she could have gotten adjusted by then.

it would have been nice to see her get adjusted....that would have been a nicer filler than Parasitica (and Mikey's my favorite character)

[Gwydion]

I'm not saying she isn't....I just want to be proved it.

they want to make sure she's safe....but they don't seem close...they don't feel close..(again except Don)

a few more scenes with them goofing off.....or spending some random time together would have helped....
This post pretty much sums up my problems with April in the Nick show.

The show loves to tell us how much Splinter and the Turtles care about her, how great she is as a character, but we never actually see that. I fully agree that her best moment so far was her talk with Leo - I genuinely love that scene, and it's because we see April actually interacting with one of the Turtles as her friend - not as a potential love interest, not as a plot point, as a friend.

I don't need her to be a ninja. I don't need her to be a love interest. I just need her to feel like a well written, fleshed out character. If she ends up being that, a ninja, and a love interest? Great! But it's such a waste of a character to throw real character development out the window.

(I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! XD)

[drgon78]

It makes perfect sense to make her ninja unless you want a useless damsel in distress who can't defend herself and is the most easily kidnapped character ever like in OS series. Though it will be awhile before she gets good enough for it to matter though.

[BabyTurtles]

This post pretty much sums up my problems with April in the Nick show.

The show loves to tell us how much Splinter and the Turtles care about her, how great she is as a character, but we never actually see that. I fully agree that her best moment so far was her talk with Leo - I genuinely love that scene, and it's because we see April actually interacting with one of the Turtles as her friend - not as a potential love interest, not as a plot point, as a friend.

I don't need her to be a ninja. I don't need her to be a love interest. I just need her to feel like a well written, fleshed out character. If she ends up being that, a ninja, and a love interest? Great! But it's such a waste of a character to throw real character development out the window.

(I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! XD)

that's how I feel! and that's what I want....

[BlisterStockboy]

I would love to see an episode where she actually FIGHTS Karai.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

she should'nt just have to be the girl that makes Donnie socially awkward should she?? ..thats my problem..

she should be a little more....

Maybe it's because I'm old and cynical, but I don't mind a character being used just as a plot device. Especially when the result is so funny and cute. I kind of washed my hands of the whole April thing when I realized she's nothing like the OT April. That being said...I really believe they will develop her more, so cheer up. :anime: It's not like they can just cast aside a core character like April once the gags get old.

[Gwydion]

It makes perfect sense to make her ninja unless you want a useless damsel in distress who can't defend herself and is the most easily kidnapped character ever like in OS series. Though it will be awhile before she gets good enough for it matter though.

Just because someone's not a ninja doesn't make them useless. I'm not saying turn her into OT April, but there are plenty of things she can do without ninja skills. Heck, she's already done things without ninja skills.

Again, I'm not saying "don't make her a ninja", I'm saying I care more about her being fleshed out. The only reason I personally am not a huge fan of the ninja angle is because it's a kids show so they are going to rush her development. I give it two seasons before she can fight on even ground with Karai (though I'm hoping I'm wrong).

[BabyTurtles]

Maybe it's because I'm old and cynical, but I don't mind a character being used just as a plot device. Especially when the result is so funny and cute. I kind of washed my hands of the whole April thing when I realized she's nothing like the OT April. That being said...I really believe they will develop her more, so cheer up. :anime: It's not like they can just cast aside a core character like April once the gags get old.

I guess I just don't want April to be used like that. (at least not most of the time)
especially since we don't have enough female characters. :(

but you're right..I should cheer up...I'm sure season 2 will handle her better :)

[Bossa Nova]

I completely agree that April's development in this series is totally lacking and that's a real shame. She's always been one of my favorite characters and now...bleh. She HAS been reduced to "Donnie's crush" (and likewise I often feel Don's own development has been stunted as well as he's been transformed into the "turtle with the awkward crush") and we never see her with anyone other than him or Splinter.

I'm also not a huge fan of the whole "April training to be a ninja" either, and that's never really sat right with me in any version of her. To me, April was always that "real" person, the one the viewer could identify with who is thrown into this crazy world of ninjas and has to take care of herself the best way she knows how. This absolutely does not mean she's weak and helpless (hell, even 1st film April had some guts trying to knock some Foot out with her bag instead of running and screaming before she was knocked out), simply that she really is an average girl and not someone who can pick up fighting skills just like that. IDW April handles the issue of her fighting pretty nicely since she essentially wanted to learn to protect herself as many young women in college do, but she hasn't jumped up to become some crazy fighter which is how it should be since learning the basics and actually becoming GOOD at them takes time and diligence. Still, Nickelodeon seems adamant about turning her into some hardcore ninja, so I'm not holding my breathe that she'll be portrayed as anything less fairly soon.

[Electric]

i still have yet to have a problem with how theyre treating april. that being said, if it continues like this, it will get annoying then.

Finale, shes captured, is needed for the invasion, probably be rescued by turtles. ok. sweet.

2nd season, i would hope her kunoichi skills would kick in, maybe go out on missions, interact like the turtles with each other, become a more knowledgeable and useful character, like above casey and irma, rather than always being the one being "needy" (hope this makes sense).

[BabyTurtles]

i still have yet to have a problem with how theyre treating april. that being said, if it continues like this, it will get annoying then.

Finale, shes captured, is needed for the invasion, probably be rescued by turtles. ok. sweet.

2nd season, i would hope her kunoichi skills would kick in, maybe go out on missions, interact like the turtles with each other, become a more knowledgeable and useful character, like above casey and irma, rather than always being the one being "needy" (hope this makes sense).

I getcha :D

in the first part of the season she wasn't but the second part she became a little "needy" huh :3 but aliens are after her XD

[Timmetry]

I would love to see a scene where April is laying on the couch or something and reading a magazine in the background of the turtle lair. Something to show that she is there but not attached to the turtles. Much like they show Donnie or Mikey in the background while Leo and Raph are watching Space Heroes (I think Raph secretly likes the show).

[Electric]

I getcha :D

in the first part of the season she wasn't but the second part she became a little "needy" huh :3 but aliens are after her XD

i know, i know, but like, April (thought she) needed help with karai, april needed rescued from dogpound, April needed saved from the pigeon, from Ms Campbell. And just her personality comes off as a little more, i dont know, timid, like shes still not on the same level of mentality as the turtles.
again, i have no problem with this so far, i love this incarnation of april, but hope she starts developing.
Like, can handle herself better in battle, figures some things out on her own, acts more confident.

[BabyTurtles]

i know, i know, but like, April (thought she) needed help with karai, april needed rescued from dogpound, April needed saved from the pigeon, from Ms Campbell. And just her personality comes off as a little more, i dont know, timid, like shes still not on the same level of mentality as the turtles.
again, i have no problem with this so far, i love this incarnation of april, but hope she starts developing.
Like, can handle herself better in battle, figures some things out on her own, acts more confident.

she seemed confident at first....when she went alone to that kraang hideout XD

she's gonna need a little help, since she's not a skilled fighter yet...

but she will be....I presume.

[Electric]

she seemed confident at first....when she went alone to that kraang hideout XD

she's gonna need a little help, since she's not a skilled fighter yet...

but she will be....I presume.

Again, i think shes a great character, just hope some of her developments start soon:twink:

[zkarlette]

I hope she develops a better personality but for some reason I don't really care for her to become a fighter.

[BabyTurtles]

I hope she develops a better personality but for some reason I don't really care for her to become a fighter.

I'd vote personality over fighter any day

but

http://i.imgur.com/AsLwZqJ.gif

[Konchadunga]

I completely agree that April's development in this series is totally lacking and that's a real shame. She's always been one of my favorite characters and now...bleh. She HAS been reduced to "Donnie's crush" (and likewise I often feel Don's own development has been stunted as well as he's been transformed into the "turtle with the awkward crush") and we never see her with anyone other than him or Splinter.

I'm also not a huge fan of the whole "April training to be a ninja" either, and that's never really sat right with me in any version of her. To me, April was always that "real" person, the one the viewer could identify with who is thrown into this crazy world of ninjas and has to take care of herself the best way she knows how. This absolutely does not mean she's weak and helpless (hell, even 1st film April had some guts trying to knock some Foot out with her bag instead of running and screaming before she was knocked out), simply that she really is an average girl and not someone who can pick up fighting skills just like that. IDW April handles the issue of her fighting pretty nicely since she essentially wanted to learn to protect herself as many young women in college do, but she hasn't jumped up to become some crazy fighter which is how it should be since learning the basics and actually becoming GOOD at them takes time and diligence. Still, Nickelodeon seems adamant about turning her into some hardcore ninja, so I'm not holding my breathe that she'll be portrayed as anything less fairly soon.

Just about the only deviation this show has done from the ideal route you cited is that fight with Karai. Though April won it mostly by accident of saying something that got to her, some would argue that isn't enough. Aside from that, though, April's action scenes have played on her normalcy next to much stronger foes. As I've said before, she's effectively a horror heroine because she has to run from things a lot, and viewers are scared.

As to development as a person; not a fighter? One theory I have is that technical limitations got in the way of this. If they wanted to show April doing things around her aunt's house, then they needed to model that environment. They could do it; sure, but it would take time from them doing other things, and be one environment to develop one character.

The other issue I see with writing April in any incarnation is that she, unlike the Turtles and Splinter, doesn't have a legacy that writes itself. People know who they are and what their personalities are, and it's easy to come up with fun scenes of them teaming up or bickering. All that is a given about April is that she's female and she's not a mutant. The easy choices from there are the weak damsel route, the incentive to train in martial arts route, or the run like shell from monsters route; aside from that, nothing's obvious.

Then again, though, people always used to complain about how boring Leonardo was, and then this show made him fun by making him a Trekky. I know that if they tried, they could come up with some embarrassing-yet-endearing quirk to give April, too.

[Bossa Nova]

konchadunga, sorry if I wasn't really clear. I would prefer if April didn't have her training with Master Splinter as a ninja at ALL. There are many ninjas and skilled fighters in this show (including an already skilled female ninja, Karai), and it just feels very very odd to me to include April in that group. In IDW I like how she is actually learning self defense moves with Casey, and in that case she wasn't seeking out to be a total badass (if I recall correctly, she didn't even know the turtles yet when she decided to do this?). In the beginning of the Nick series I liked how April was willing to go undercover and use her own creative skills to try to help out the turtles, that made her feel more "real" to me. No, she wasn't a fantastic fighter, but she still proved that she's got guts and creativity where it counts, that she wants to help and is proactive and intelligent. To me, that's what April is all about, not another ninja, and I do think that may be one route of the three you mentioned in which to explore her character?

But again, that's just my view on her and why I really think Nick is watering April down with this whole ninja/love interest angle they've painted her with. But then again, I never really thought Leo was boring before this series either, so maybe my perception is just all sorts of off :P

[Shark_Blade]

What I've seen is enough to make her likeable imo.

Not much air time? this is not her show. Either way, we've seen tonnes of development from her, particularly her ninja training and metalic fan usage.

[Gin Rummy]

I've enjoyed April a lot in this series so far. Witch is unusual, because in most turtle media I've tended not to care about her much.

Hopefully in season 2. She'll be able to walk on her own a bit more. I'd like to see her use her fans.

Also, I think Irma will provide April a bit more balance, so she doesn't always need to be hanging with the Turtles.

[Trivia]

I agree, April need to be fleshed out more as a character.
However, I don't really want this to focus too much on April either.

I would love to see a scene where April is laying on the couch or something and reading a magazine in the background of the turtle lair. Something to show that she is there but not attached to the turtles. Much like they show Donnie or Mikey in the background while Leo and Raph are watching Space Heroes (I think Raph secretly likes the show).

Exactly. This is how they could have developed April without giving her too much own screentime. We're talking about mere seconds in the background.

[TigerClaw]

I bet April will be more fully developed by Season 2 after the Turtles rescue her father from the Krang. Though we don't know what his fate will be, Judging from the previews I saw about Season 2, with the mutagen falling all over the city, One might think he'll become a mutant at some point.

[drgon78]

We have at least two more seasons so I am sure she will get more character development.

[BubblyShell22]

I like April the way she is, and she's essentially a big part of the plot of the series with her dad missing. And since Karai tried to capture her, the Turtles are going to be more protective of her because of that. Sure, she could get fleshed out more, but I think that where she's at now is pretty good. Even her training is more realistic than I thought it would be as she's nowhere near as skilled as the Turtles yet.

[drgon78]

I don't expert her to kick butt and take names but I would like to see her outsmart and/or outmaneuver her attackers.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Yeah, you should probably get the comic in which April and Don went to that military junkyard.

Shame it's not in the tv show itself. It was really well done and gave April some good brownie points.

As much as I am disappointed the show didn't utilize April, Splinter and Shredder much because the Kraang and the mutagen overtook the arc of season 1, I get why they didn't get the screentime.

[Atren]

I hope she develops a better personality but for some reason I don't really care for her to become a fighter.

Agreed and in fact one of biggest deterrents for me is her becoming fighter among other. Irony of that is Karai (who is fighter) is my favourite character probably on the show. I suppose difference is that Karai makes sense with her background while April feels like forced to me. Turtles can't have constant interaction with people that are not fighters?

That is further enhanced by her being THE key of alien invasion. I am rarely fond of such developments and this is no exception. It actually felt that exchange between her and Karai was exchange between people like me and creators. Tacking some flaws to her to make it less artificial so to speak.

[drgon78]

It isn't "forced" to teach someone how to defend themselves, it's common sense, a common sense that didn't exist in other incarnations.

[BabyTurtles]

Yeah, you should probably get the comic in which April and Don went to that military junkyard.

Shame it's not in the tv show itself. It was really well done and gave April some good brownie points.

As much as I am disappointed the show didn't utilize April, Splinter and Shredder much because the Kraang and the mutagen overtook the arc of season 1, I get why they didn't get the screentime.

I saw some of it...quite frankly...I'm tired of all the Donnie and April team up.....
but maybe there's more to it :3 I only saw the preview...

[The Big Bad]

I bet April will be more fully developed by Season 2 after the Turtles rescue her father from the Krang. Though we don't know what his fate will be, Judging from the previews I saw about Season 2, with the mutagen falling all over the city, One might think he'll become a mutant at some point.

We have at least two more seasons so I am sure she will get more character development.

Here's the thing, though: out of all the members of the cast, April's life has gone through arguably the most changes throughout this season. She's lost her father; discovered the existence of mutants and aliens and ninjas; has been made to uproot her entire life twice--first moving in with an aunt whom we still know nothing about and who could be either a Darius Dun or another Splinter, and later with the turtles--and discovered that she's at the center of an alien plot to terraform the Earth. In theory, it's all excellent dramatic fodder, and as much as you could get without actually being a main character, and an excellent catalyst for character development.

And yet, we haven't seen how she feels about any of it. In fact, the show appears to have gone out of her way not focus on that, keeping the revelations about her as last-minute cliffhangers, and then failing to actually follow through with them in the subsequent episodes.

I've complained before (http://doknowbutchie.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/wherein-ian-tries-to-teach-feminism-101-or-why-the-pilot-episode-of-tmnt-2012-is-highly-problematic/) about how the first episode of the cartoon seemed skewed in its priorities, making her introduction not about her, but about how Don becomes smitten with her. I was disappointed then, and I'm actually kind of shocked now at how that became the norm. We don't get to see her feelings on the turtles' botched rescue of her father, we don't get to see her react on the revelation that she's the Kraang's true target, and we don't get to see her deal with her life being forced to change twice. It makes me want to ask the writers: what the heck are you waiting for?

I mean, the 4Kids cartoon forced its April to uproot her life as well. The difference is we got to see how she feels. After she lost her job at Stocktronics, we saw her decide to pick herself up and reopen her shop until she figured out what to do with her life. When circumstances forced the turtles to live with her--and then forced her to live with Casey and then the turtles--we were shown her ambivalence, conflicted feelings, tiredness, and occasionally, anger. When her shop was burned down by the Shredder, we saw her cry, because another piece of her life was destroyed. None of these things were major--just small scenes, spread out across the season--and yet they all helped make April into a character who felt as if she had an inner life and thoughts. The younger April doesn't have that, and it shows.

[kelligrafie]

The trouble is that the episodes we see of the cartoon are literally episodes of the characters' lives. We have no real idea of how much time is passing between each episode. I mean hints are dropped ("I've been training you for a few weeks April"), but even then we don't have Big Brother style surveillance of April and the turtles so there's lots of stuff we miss out on seeing.

So she could've been training for months but to us it would literally be a week later, suddenly she's level 2000 in ninjitsu.

Plus as well, maybe stuff's obvious to the writers and show creators about what's going on in the background that they don't point out stuff because they assume we already know.

I don't really care for the Donnie-April romance thing but as I can't see anything long-term coming out of it so I put up with it mostly. She isn't interested. In the Metalhead episode she seemed pretty fed up with his gushing.

The good thing about Irma and Casey being introduced is that hopefully we will get to see April interacting with humans (that aren't her dad). And also, seeing what her 'normal' life is like and therefore her none-turtle persona.

[Raphaeline]

I think it's normal for her to learn self-defense, but I don't want her to become a badass ninja like she was in the 2007 movie, that was ridiculous. She seemed almost as good as the turtles.

I hope she won't get too strong but will use more her own abilities to help her friends, like sneaking in buildings or find information by herself talking to people (because she's human and it's easier for her), etc...

I don't want her to turn into a "good side Karai"...

[Konchadunga]

It isn't "forced" to teach someone how to defend themselves, it's common sense, a common sense that didn't exist in other incarnations.

Yeah; take a look at what sort of world she lives in. I am all for April learning to fight, because it's a smack in the face to the ridiculous load of a character she was in the Fred Wolf show, but also, because it's about the only option she has. Some people might point out she wasn't a fighter in the Mirage series, either, but here is the big difference: She wasn't in the Mirage series much; nor was she always an annoying risk-taker at the points where she was in it.

If somebody is one of the main characters in this show, around the turtles and, by extension, at risk from enemies, they should learn to fight. Not all of them have to fight as well as the Turtles, but if they're at risk, and they have someone willing to teach them, then they'd be stupid not to learn. It's just like a Navy cook learning to fight; he won't be at the level of the Marines, since he's not supposed to storm the beaches with them, but he needs some abilities on the chance an enemy boarding party attacks the ship.

[BubblyShell22]

I really like how they're handling her ninjitsu training. Even in that fight with Karai, she didn't have the upper hand until the very end and only because she remembered what Splinter was saying to Mikey about finding a way to escape, and that helped her. But I don't think she'll become as good as the Turtles yet. It'll take time, and I'm glad the writers are giving her that time.

[drgon78]

At least she learns Splinters lessens quickly unlike her "brothers" as she called them in that episode with her and Karai.

I would have liked her to have met Leatherhead before he ended up in dimension X.

If I remember correctly April hasn't met Baxter or Shredder yet, correct?

[Shark_Blade]

I don't expert her to kick butt and take names but I would like to see her outsmart and/or outmaneuver her attackers.

Didn't she already did that? With Karai. Not mere Foot Soldiers, but Shredder's daughter. The second highest in their clan.

That's a high note in my books.

[drgon78]

Yeah she did, because of Splinter's advice, but I mean more often then once or twice a season.

[Avatar Yuffie]

I saw some of it...quite frankly...I'm tired of all the Donnie and April team up.....
but maybe there's more to it :3 I only saw the preview...

No, April was solo the whole time in that story. Don had nothing to do with it.

[BabyTurtles]

No, April was solo the whole time in that story. Don had nothing to do with it.

awesome :D

I'm sure she was cool.

(I hate for her teaming up with Don to be the reasons for not liking it...but if I see another swooning Don..I'm gonna scream)

everyone has their pet peeves I guess.

[drgon78]

I hope she meets Baxter at least once before he mutates into a fly.

Shredder used to kidnap her in the OS all the time but she hasn't even meet him yet in this one. I hope they remedy that in season 2.

I wonder what her reaction would have been if she had meet Leatherhead.

I would like to see her at school when the teachers and other students are actually there.

[Electric]

Definitely coming in season two, with Irma and Casey, I have a feeling well see her in school a decent amount

[LH]

I would have liked her to have met Leatherhead before he ended up in dimension X.

I wonder what her reaction would have been if she had meet Leatherhead.


It would have been cool to see them meet for the first time. They had to have met when they were loading up the box to infiltrate TCRI... She looked upset when they said he was gone too...

[BabyTurtles]

It would have been cool to see them meet for the first time. They had to have met when they were loading up the box to infiltrate TCRI... She looked upset when they said he was gone too...

and it's stuff like this...that I wish we had more scenes involving April.

even if it's simply her reaction to something new.

[drgon78]

Yeah that was a wasted moment that they didn't take advantage of that is for sure.

[Leofan26]

Well, now she's going to be in a love triangle next season, YAy :lol:

[drgon78]

By the look of the season 2 description it will still be unknown why the Krang want her and who/what she is.

I hope it will be Casey that likes April but she doesn't care or notice not the other way around.

[Luckyday]

I think what will happen is that season 1 will end on a cliffhanger and season 2 will just pick up right at the moment where season 1 left off.


Thank god for September.

[BubblyShell22]

That could be a very real possibility considering that it airs in August and the next season premieres in September. I certainly wouldn't be upset if that happened.

[TigerClaw]

Looking forward to Season 2. From the previews I have seen, The Krang ship started releasing a bunch of mutagen canisters all over the city, Which pretty much is setting things up for some of those new mutant to show up. One was even heading towards April.

[drgon78]

Yeah but if you look at the vid of the mutagen canister flying towards her, you can see some one with a skateboard not too far behind her. So more then likely this person will take the hit or deflect the canister completely with his skateboard, though it would be cool if it did hit it her and had no effect.

[Avatar Yuffie]

I don't know why the writers never used April as the audience surrogate... but considering she's a mysterious alien project and not a normal human, it's a huge shame. She could have filled the role 1987 Carter, Ninjara and Fast Forward Cody in that season.

[Vivi]

I'm just going to start off by saying that every time I read the title of this thread I think you're talking about something else. But back on topic, she's sorely underused. I think the best episodes involve her more because of her connection to the kraang, who are at this point far more interesting than Shredder. And her best moments are usually when she's not around Donatello (eg. with Karai, with Splinter, finding that crystal ball etc etc...).

[raph27]

I'm just going to start off by saying that every time I read the title of this thread I think you're talking about something else.
Your avatar is just perfect for this
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[drgon78]

Yeah, your not the only one who thought about the title of this thread in that way.

[BabyTurtles]

maybe I should change it....but to what :-?

[Konchadunga]

April and Her Bra Size.

[BabyTurtles]

April and Her Bra Size.

:evil: *taps foot*

but seriously!! >:U what?

[LittleBlueHero]

Not entirely relevant but I thought I would mention that in the new ongoing Animated Comic Series from IDW the first issue is all about April.

About her training, her independent nature and occasional disregard for authority, not to mention her incredibly quick thinking skills when in a jam.

I feel like at her age April is trying to figure out who she is as much as we are, the show hasn't touched on it much but the new comic has got the right idea.

Give it a read if you are an April fan for sure.

[drgon78]

Which comic?

[BabyTurtles]

Not entirely relevant but I thought I would mention that in the new ongoing Animated Comic Series from IDW the first issue is all about April.

About her training, her independent nature and occasional disregard for authority, not to mention her incredibly quick thinking skills when in a jam.

I feel like at her age April is trying to figure out who she is as much as we are, the show hasn't touched on it much but the new comic has got the right idea.

Give it a read if you are an April fan for sure.

...darn...I need to read it....T^T

[LittleBlueHero]

Which comic?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/67663/3164358-01.jpg

[drgon78]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Last night I suddenly had a feeling of bad juju: Pretty sure 2012 April is actually a Canon Sue.

[Luckyday]

Is it because of the psychic stuff that she had shown?

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I think she's very Canon Sue on a whole in the sense that she's exactly the kind of character that most girls would write as a Mary Sue. Someone might pick a different turtle to bone (or all of them), but all the hallmarks are there:

-Love interest with an attractive character
-Strong, good-looking, independent (Red hair and blue eyes is classic Mary Sue, but I'll give them a pass since the original April was a redhead.)
-Plays "hard to get" with love interest
-Latent powers (as you mentioned) and/or gets to do the same cool stuff as the main chars (Splinter training her)
-Another female character gets jealous of her (Did anyone else notice that with Karai?)

[BubblyShell22]

Karai wasn't jealous of her. She just couldn't understand why April was so special and why the Kraang wanted her as she didn't see anything special about April when she met her. And not all Mary Sues are bad. Actually, I think this April isn't really a Sue at all considering that most Mary Sues tend to welcome the love interest right off the bat and pretty much jump said Turtle in question, whereas April hasn't done that. Also, they tend to be more skilled than the Turtles in ninjitsu, and April certainly isn't as skilled as they are. So, for most of your points, I totally have to disagree.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Karai's reaction seemed so...angry. It really registered as jealousy rather than simple curiosity to me.

It depends on the complexity of the Mary Sue - I've seen some people set up an entire angst/hard to get relationship because they love the drama, while probably most Mary Sues are more simplistic. I've also seen more "realistic" Mary Sues where the "heroine" is nothing amazing in skills or powers, but a Mary Sue nevertheless. It depends on the author.

I come from an era of fanfic writing when Mary Sues were something to be embarrassed about, and I still view them with mild exasperation and disgust, honestly. I think all fans have some kind of proto-Mary Sue or Gary Stu going mentally; I just missed the transition when it became acceptable for everyone to wallpaper the Internet with them. A Canon Sue isn't so bad, though.

[Konchadunga]

And not all Mary Sues are bad. Actually, I think this April isn't really a Sue at all considering that most Mary Sues tend to welcome the love interest right off the bat and pretty much jump said Turtle in question, whereas April hasn't done that. Also, they tend to be more skilled than the Turtles in ninjitsu, and April certainly isn't as skilled as they are. So, for most of your points, I totally have to disagree.

I completely disagree that not all Mary Sues are bad; for me, they ruin a story to a huge degree, but I agree with everything else. The "April is a Mary-Sue" argument keeps dredging up, but honestly, it remains bunk. Here are some counterpoints:
•Mary Sues tend to become the focus of the plot. April isn't even in that many episodes.
•Mary Sues are defined by excessive amounts of talents. April has one gift, which helps at just a few things.
•Mary Sues typically don't have an explanation for their abilities; April does, though we haven't seen it yet.
•The measure of a Mary Sue is often based on her surrounding universe. Having a sixth sense, and the abilities that come with it, might make someone a Mary Sue in a high school drama, but in a show where just about everyone fights, with excessive strength, endurance, and weapons, it's just enough to squeak by.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Not a Mary Sue, a Canon Sue. And I'm willing to be a little more charitable and say that Nick was trying to appeal to female viewers.

[Konchadunga]

Is there a difference?

[BubblyShell22]

I completely disagree that not all Mary Sues are bad; for me, they ruin a story to a huge degree, but I agree with everything else. The "April is a Mary-Sue" argument keeps dredging up, but honestly, it remains bunk. Here are some counterpoints:
•Mary Sues tend to become the focus of the plot. April isn't even in that many episodes.
•Mary Sues are defined by excessive amounts of talents. April has one gift, which helps at just a few things.
•Mary Sues typically don't have an explanation for their abilities; April does, though we haven't seen it yet.
•The measure of a Mary Sue is often based on her surrounding universe. Having a sixth sense, and the abilities that come with it, might make someone a Mary Sue in a high school drama, but in a show where just about everyone fights, with excessive strength, endurance, and weapons, it's just enough to squeak by.

I guess I'm the type to say that what one reader feels is a Mary Sue may not be the same as another reader. I'm just saying that one author labeled her character a Mary Sue, yet I saw nothing that screamed "Mary Sue" to me, and I really liked the character. For me, as long as a character is likeable and doesn't detract from the Turtles in any way, then she's not a Mary Sue. But this discussion about fan fiction isn't for this topic, so I won't go any further on it.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

A Canon Sue is a Mary Sue that's written in by the actual creator (or in this case, the writers who inherited the rights to the story). It has all the traits of a Mary Sue, but at least is masturbation via your own work rather than via fanfiction. It doesn't bother me nearly as much, probably because they do tell you to write what you know.

I guess I'm the type to say that what one reader feels is a Mary Sue may not be the same as another reader. I'm just saying that one author labeled her character a Mary Sue, yet I saw nothing that screamed "Mary Sue" to me, and I really liked the character. For me, as long as a character is likeable and doesn't detract from the Turtles in any way, then she's not a Mary Sue. But this discussion about fan fiction isn't for this topic, so I won't go any further on it.

I really respect you for being willing to read other people's Mary Sues, and being so openminded about the subject in general. That's an admirable lack of prejudice in my mind. I wish I could be more like you!

[drgon78]

April is not a "Marry Sue", a Marry Sue has no flaws, is at least competent if not skilled in everything she tries, cannot fail, very knowledgeable, will not lie, steal, or cheat, etc.

Marry Poppins is a more of a Marry Sue then April could ever be.:lol:

[Captain PunchYouHard]

April is not a "Marry Sue", a Marry Sue has no flaws, is at least competent if not skilled in everything she tries, cannot fail, very knowledgeable, will not lie, steal, or cheat, etc.

Marry Poppins is a more of a Marry Sue then April could ever be.:lol:

I define a Mary Sue as any character based on oneself that's inserted into fanfiction, fanart, etc. Most people seem to call them "OCs" now, but I think that's just a rebranding now that Mary Sue is a derogatory term.

ETA: Well, technically if it's male it's a Gary Stu.

[PApagreg]

I define a Mary Sue as any character based on oneself that's inserted into fanfiction, fanart, etc. Most people seem to call them "OCs" now, but I think that's just a rebranding now that Mary Sue is a derogatory term.

ETA: Well, technically if it's male it's a Gary Stu.

Honestly 2007 and 2003 April was sort of a MAry Sue, able to learn ninjustsu in less then a few months and able to karai

[Konchadunga]

Honestly 2007 and 2003 April was sort of a MAry Sue, able to learn ninjustsu in less then a few months and able to karai

There are a few problems with that statement. First, they're not the same character. Second, 2003 April took more than months to learn to fight well. The things I'd argue kind of qualifie her for the designation are her easy adaptation to jungle life and her possession of high mental abilities as well as physical ones, but even then, she had obvious limits and couldn't handle greater-than-human threats on her own. Third, it was a decade and a half between the third movie (where April could already fight a bit) to the fourth; that's arguably more time than the turtles took to learn the skills they had as of the first movie, and hence most definitely enough time for April to hone her skills. Four, you forgot a verb.

Now I'm not saying it was right for April to be able to beat Karai, but I see it less as a problem with her getting tougher and more one of Karai being bastardized. Seasons of the 2003 show had taken her image from Mirage's muscle-bound, enemy-slaying-but-otherwise-peaceable badass leader, to a sniveling misguided wannabe overlord always riding on Shredder's coat-tail and/or legacy--and movie Shredder wasn't so tough himself.

[BubblyShell22]

A Canon Sue is a Mary Sue that's written in by the actual creator (or in this case, the writers who inherited the rights to the story). It has all the traits of a Mary Sue, but at least is masturbation via your own work rather than via fanfiction. It doesn't bother me nearly as much, probably because they do tell you to write what you know.



I really respect you for being willing to read other people's Mary Sues, and being so openminded about the subject in general. That's an admirable lack of prejudice in my mind. I wish I could be more like you!

Oh, believe me, I don't like all Mary Sues, but I do believe that some Mary Sues can be written well as long as the writer takes time to develop the character. The author just kept calling her character a Mary Sue, but I didn't really see any detestable Sue like qualities within said character, so that's why I was willing to read it. There are a lot of OCs I can't tolerate.

Sometimes I'm reluctant to even write OCs myself, but I do because I like to add them when I can. If people hate them, fine. If people like them, then great. But then again, I always give my characters flaws, and April definitely has flaws herself. A Mary Sue is a perfect character who has no flaws, steals the spotlight, and basically is mostly a self-insert so the writer can fulfill their fantasies with whatever Turtle they're in love with. April has more to her than that, and she's far from perfect, too.

But that's just my two cents, and I know someone else already stated it, but I thought I'd chime in.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I should state, in case I sound too superior, that I do end up with a Mary Sue for most series I'm interested in. The distinction is that I'd rather die than let anyone else read the fic.

[Konchadunga]

An OC isn't necessarily a Mary Sue, but in my opinion, the more a fanfiction is about an OC, the less it's really a fanfiction. If you're writing a fanfic all about your original character, at some point you should pause and ask yourself, "why is this a fanfiction; why not make it an original story? Is it just because without famous characters, nobody would read it because nobody else cares about my original character?" I'm not pointing the finger and saying everybody has that motive, but it's worth humility to reflect on what you want and what they want.

I am writing a fanfiction, and people love it, and if they didn't love it, I wouldn't keep writing, and when I get critiques, I try to address them. There are original characters, but they're all either villains or bit parts; the story isn't about them, and they exist for the canon protagonists to play off of; not vice versa. A fanfiction is for the fans; I don't buy into the pretentious indie claim that true art is only for oneself. People sink into nihilism and mediocrity too often when they think that; artists should care what others think of their art.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

You're correct, and that's a distinction I totally forgot: There are OCs that aren't Mary Sues. However, I'd say that most of what's labeled OC is, in fact, MS. If the OC is created out of necessity to progress the story (e.g. the pizza delivery guy if the story is about the turtles eating so much pizza that they explode), that's one thing. If the story exists to progress the OC, that's an MS whether the actual OC bears any resemblance to the author or not.

Tl;dr: Get your "Raph is so in love with my OC he can't control himself and passionately rapes her" off my f***ing Internet/planet/M-brane/plane of existence.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

An OC isn't necessarily a Mary Sue, but in my opinion, the more a fanfiction is about an OC, the less it's really a fanfiction. If you're writing a fanfic all about your original character, at some point you should pause and ask yourself, "why is this a fanfiction; why not make it an original story? Is it just because without famous characters, nobody would read it because nobody else cares about my original character?" I'm not pointing the finger and saying everybody has that motive, but it's worth humility to reflect on what you want and what they want.

I am writing a fanfiction, and people love it, and if they didn't love it, I wouldn't keep writing, and when I get critiques, I try to address them. There are original characters, but they're all either villains or bit parts; the story isn't about them, and they exist for the canon protagonists to play off of; not vice versa. A fanfiction is for the fans; I don't buy into the pretentious indie claim that true art is only for oneself. People sink into nihilism and mediocrity too often when they think that; artists should care what others think of their art.

How very true. I write mostly for myself, but I also certainly DO care what others think of my work as well. My own OC might be considered a Mary Sue in some respects, but is hardly as good as the NT, nor has any "special" abilities. She's just a girl who got thrown into the mix, and had to learn to adapt- with the added incentive of seeking justice. The only real Sue-ish trait I can think of is her love-interest aspect with one of them.

I think this version of April is walking the line of a Canon/Mary Sue, but only in the "abilities" she has started to show. I disagree completely that the 2007 April's level of skill was ridiculous, as it was based mostly on the 2K3 April (not the one from the first three movies- she NEVER had any training.) so it makes sense that after Leo left- remember, in 2K3 she started training in the first few seasons, and he was gone for over a YEAR- by the time he came back, she would have gotten quite good. Hardly a Mary sue there. But then, she had been around them for a long time, was considered family, and as others pointed out, NOT learning to defend herself would have been pretty dumb with her level of involvement with them.

[PApagreg]

I disagree completely that the 2007 April's level of skill was ridiculous, as it was based mostly on the 2K3 April (not the one from the first three movies- she NEVER had any training.) so it makes sense that after Leo left- remember, in 2K3 she started training in the first few seasons, and he was gone for over a YEAR- by the time he came back, she would have gotten quite good. Hardly a Mary sue there. But then, she had been around them for a long time, was considered family, and as others pointed out, NOT learning to defend herself would have been pretty dumb with her level of involvement with them.[/QUOTE]

It was more of the lines of her beating Karai that was far fetched also 2k3 April beat Silver Sentry in arm wrestling

[BabyTurtles]

I disagree completely that the 2007 April's level of skill was ridiculous, as it was based mostly on the 2K3 April (not the one from the first three movies- she NEVER had any training.) so it makes sense that after Leo left- remember, in 2K3 she started training in the first few seasons, and he was gone for over a YEAR- by the time he came back, she would have gotten quite good. Hardly a Mary sue there. But then, she had been around them for a long time, was considered family, and as others pointed out, NOT learning to defend herself would have been pretty dumb with her level of involvement with them.

It was more of the lines of her beating Karai that was far fetched also 2k3 April beat Silver Sentry in arm wrestling

lol XD she bribed him with cookies so she could win XD

[Coola Yagami]

April and Her Bra Size.

There's not much development going on there... she looks 12.

[Konchadunga]

Worth noting that if Nick April is a Mary Sue, she's not a very big one by TMNT standards. Venus ticks off every Mary Sue box so hard, it's amazing she was written before widespread Internet use made them infamous. Zack was also in that territory, as he was able to best the villains for no other apparent reason than being an eager young fanboy. (Note: I'm really getting sick of that type of character. I yearn to see a cartoon where his or her hedonistic, cocky eagerness gets him or her killed.). Agatha Oniel is a horrendous Mary Sue. That kid in TMNT2, whose name I can't even remember, was, if not a Mary Sue, completely arbitrary, and apparently Vanilla Ice was originally supposed to be the Sue of the movie. Cody was, if not competent, at least a bit too plot-centric. You could even argue Shredder is kind of a Sue, since he went from a one-off to essentially immortal in most incarnations. (And literally in one.)

2012 April is tough, but I'm reasonably certain that after her past is revealed, which probably isn't too far off, now, not many more plots will be devoted to revealing her mysterious abilities. At the very least, I prefer for April to have some powers when she's not quite human, to her being a normal human who's not quite human because, well, um...why? I have to hand it to Nick for taking a lemon and making lemonade.

[BabyTurtles]

There's not much development going on there... she looks 12.

I looked 12 when I was 16........it's not rare XD some people just age slower.

[Konchadunga]

I looked 19 when I was 16, which for me meant I already had my totally rad mustache!

[Avatar Yuffie]

I think she's very Canon Sue on a whole in the sense that she's exactly the kind of character that most girls would write as a Mary Sue. Someone might pick a different turtle to bone (or all of them), but all the hallmarks are there:

-Love interest with an attractive character
-Strong, good-looking, independent (Red hair and blue eyes is classic Mary Sue, but I'll give them a pass since the original April was a redhead.)
-Plays "hard to get" with love interest
-Latent powers (as you mentioned) and/or gets to do the same cool stuff as the main chars (Splinter training her)
-Another female character gets jealous of her (Did anyone else notice that with Karai?)

Uh... that's not a canon sue.

a mary sue is a character (mostly female but there ARE male canon sues) who is so beautiful that's her entire trait, so kind and wondrous she can solve world problems, is hated by no one and everyone wants to be her friend that when the sue causes problems, they never considered it her fault and more of an honor getting her out of those situations. Oh, and the story and characters revolves around her. We don't know why people think she's special. We don't know why her friends think she's awesome. We don't know why her boyfriend think she's specifically created for him. She just is, and the audience just had to settle with that.

It's not a girl thing btw. There are instances there are male canon sues (Wesley from Star Trek, he always saves the day). Even the villains can be called "sues" when the writer's overdoing it (coughSasukecough).

Unfortunately, people DO get scared off making OCs because it's automatically viewed as "sues", but they project that bad writing and short sightedness on their favorite canon characters instead. (Example: go to an Avatar the Last Airbender section in ffnet. Read 20 zutara fanfictions. Most often than not the authors is way off the mark with both Zuko and Katara's characters and/or libido in the cartoon, not to mention their powers in fanfics makes Aang's look... ridiculous).

[drgon78]

April doesn't look twelve, she looks like she has at least a B cup. Maybe she will be a C cup by next season, then her character will be more "developed" so everyone will stop complaining.:lol:

[Konchadunga]

I think the term, Mary Sue has evolved somewhat, even if that was its original meaning. Even then, the parody-fic that spawned it also gave her high abilities.

I agree with you about ruining canon-characters instead, though; it's no better and only makes me madder that an author tricked me into reading their crap. April may not be a Sue, but I'm sure that many fics make her one. I've resolved that even when I write fanfiction about an underappreciated character (and I plan to) she's not going to be a Sue.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Uh... that's not a canon sue.

A Mary/Canon Sue/Stu is any character based on the author/artist/whatever, however loosely, that's inserted into the work for the purpose of giving the author gratification. It doesn't matter whether it's the archetypical "sweet, kind, beautiful, and powerful" MS or exponentially more complex, i.e. flawed.

[Avatar Yuffie]

I had a hard time identifying April a sue when she's underused as a character.

[Konchadunga]

A Mary/Canon Sue/Stu is any character based on the author/artist/whatever, however loosely, that's inserted into the work for the purpose of giving the author gratification. It doesn't matter whether it's the archetypical "sweet, kind, beautiful, and powerful" MS or exponentially more complex, i.e. flawed.

I'm gonna need to see some documents for that, sir.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

So yeah, I have to admit that I'm not seeing any documentation that actually supports my point. It seens I've been wrong about the strict definition of a MS/CS. Sorry. And mind blown.

Still don't want to see anyone's...what do we call this, a self-based OC?...have relations with the turtles, but it's a free Internet, so whatever?

[Konchadunga]

So yeah, I have to admit that I'm not seeing any documentation that actually supports my point. It seens I've been wrong about the strict definition of a MS/CS. Sorry. And mind blown.

Still don't want to see anyone's...what do we call this, a self-based OC?...have relations with the turtles, but it's a free Internet, so whatever?

"Author-Avatar" seems to be the widely accepted term. I've also heard "self-insert". Note that some of these characters aren't pretty, or talented, or a love interest, but just there for the author to get his views out. I can think of a particularly obnoxious fanfiction writer, who in nearly every fanfiction he wrote, had some character spout his own political views; even if there was hardly any reason to do so in the story, but I'm not going to name him. Of course, this isn't limited to fanfiction, either. Science Fiction is so full of it, you'd think the genre was Congress.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

"Author-Avatar" seems to be the widely accepted term. I've also heard "self-insert". Note that some of these characters aren't pretty, or talented, or a love interest, but just there for the author to get his views out. I can think of a particularly obnoxious fanfiction writer, who in nearly every fanfiction he wrote, had some character spout his own political views; even if there was hardly any reason to do so in the story, but I'm not going to name him. Of course, this isn't limited to fanfiction, either. Science Fiction is so full of it, you'd think the genre was Congress.

Heinlein. For Us, The Living is like an essay someone wrote for their economics class while extremely stoned.

[Avatar Yuffie]

So yeah, I have to admit that I'm not seeing any documentation that actually supports my point. It seens I've been wrong about the strict definition of a MS/CS. Sorry. And mind blown.

Still don't want to see anyone's...what do we call this, a self-based OC?...have relations with the turtles, but it's a free Internet, so whatever?

OC's are fine. They're a welcome addition.

IMHO, like romance and angst, it all depends on the writer's skill on how they handle them.

I remember I never disliked Keno from Secret of the Ooze, Oyuki from TMNT Adventures and Rob Paulsen confirmed the pizza delivery kid is Ciro, and they're canon OCs.

[Konchadunga]

Heinlein is a popular target for mockery, but we shouldn't ignore HP Lovecraft, Orson Scott Card or Ray Bradbury, either.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Card is a whackjob anyway.

[drgon78]

When/Where did Rob Paulsen say that the pizza delivery kid was Ciro?

[Avatar Yuffie]

Can't remember. It's from one of his podcasts.

[Coola Yagami]

I looked 12 when I was 16........it's not rare XD some people just age slower.

Lol I know. I was just using a play on words.

I find it hard to see April as any kind if sue since she is a canon tmnt character. Now lets say April was 28 again and a news reporter in this version and the tmnt meet a 16 year old girl named Whitney or something and she did everything exactly the same as what teen April is doing now... Then yeah I'd consider that a sue of some sort.

[drgon78]

Since she moved in with the turtles, It would be nice to find out if...
She is still going to school.
If she told her aunt anything at all.
What she told her aunt.
If she did just disappear, why aren't the police looking for her.
What she told/tells her friends...whoever they are.
How much time has passed since she moved in.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, some of those questions are intriguing.

As for the pizza delivery kid, I think Rob stated it in a podcast, and I think Ciro stated it in an interview that the pizza delivery kid is voiced by Ciro and the pizza boxes are based on a relative's pizza place or something like that.

In fact, I'm thinking of doing a fan fic about the pizza delivery kid and talk about some of his cameos in the episodes we've seen him in.

[CyberCubed]

April looks 16. Do people not know what 16 year olds look like? They look like kids.

Most 16 year olds do not have huge breasts and they're usually around 5 feet. I think some of you need to get your heads out of the gutter. You're thinking of College girls.

[Leo656]

That's kind of a general statement. You didn't go to my high school, buddy. :lol:

I'm sure it varies based on geography, genetics, and what kind of milk products they consume.

Honestly I don't think April looks or acts 16 at all, more like 14. But that's just my opinion.

[Electric]

there are some episodes, hell even parts of episodes, where i think april looks and acts 16. then there are other episodes and parts where she seems more like a 13 or 14 year old

[BabyTurtles]

there are some episodes, hell even parts of episodes, where i think april looks and acts 16. then there are other episodes and parts where she seems more like a 13 or 14 year old

hmm...

question...it seems that some people thought April had an attitude problem some episodes??

do you guys think so??

I don't see it....

[CyberCubed]

That's kind of a general statement. You didn't go to my high school, buddy. :lol:

I'm sure it varies based on geography, genetics, and what kind of milk products they consume.

Honestly I don't think April looks or acts 16 at all, more like 14. But that's just my opinion.

When I was in High School I can only remember two or maybe three girls with large breasts. The rest were all A's and B's.

April looks exactly like what most High school girls did.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I don't know how old you are, but there's been a trend towards premature puberty in the past 10 years. I live across the street from a high school, and I definitely notice a lot more well-endowed girls than I remember from high school (I graduated in 2001).

[BabyTurtles]

I don't know how old you are, but there's been a trend towards premature puberty in the past 10 years. I live across the street from a high school, and I definitely notice a lot more well-endowed girls than I remember from high school (I graduated in 2001).

really...I graduated 2010 and there are tons of girls that looked young at my high school....in fact most them of had April's body type.
Karai's body type was popular too.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I think, as someone above already said, it might be a regional thing too. In the end, I don't find any body type to be "wrong," though. I think April is perfectly adorable the way she is, and I know plenty of guys who don't like big breasts.

i was a C-cup at 11, junior high and high school were rather awkward

[BabyTurtles]

I think, as someone above already said, it might be a regional thing too. In the end, I don't find any body type to be "wrong," though. I think April is perfectly adorable the way she is, and I know plenty of guys who don't like big breasts.

i was a C-cup at 11, junior high and high school were rather awkward

why would anyone want her to have big breasts anyway? she's just a kid :(
I've never seen anyone as skinny as April have huge boobs....at least not naturally.

(but I guess it's possible?? :ohwell:)

..how did we get on this subject anyway! when I said April and her development this isn't what I meant :lol:

[Captain PunchYouHard]

You can be just a kid and have big breasts. I don't think it should be expected, though.

Anyway, yes, totally not the point of this thread. *shoos the perverts out the door*

[CyberCubed]

I think its that OT April had large breasts so people expect this April to grow into a figure of that one.

[Coola Yagami]

I think its that OT April had large breasts so people expect this April to grow into a figure of that one.

No it's just nowadays 16 year olds seem to look like they're 18. College girls are already look like young full grown women. I honestly don't know what school you all went to or maybe it was a race thing. My high school was mostly black and Hispanic with maybe 1 or 2 white people but most of the girls were busty.

I assume they purposely do this to prevent people from checking out April cause you shouldn't be checking out kids anyways but lots if cartons and such have teenage characters that look and act like kids. Anime seems more realistic in that department.

As for the classic April I never thought her boobs were all that big. She just actually had a chest but her bust matched the rest of her body. Some of you act like she's Jessica Rabbit or something. She had pretty normal sized boobs.

[CyberCubed]

No it's just nowadays 16 year olds seem to look like they're 18. College girls are already look like young full grown women. I honestly don't know what school you all went to or maybe it was a race thing. My high school was mostly black and Hispanic with maybe 1 or 2 white people but most of the girls were busty.

Black women do tend to be bustier but they've also a little more heavy-set. Skinny black girls tend to have very small boobs. And before anyone asks I'm trying not to offend anyone.

[Anarchistguy]

Black women do tend to be bustier but they've also a little more heavy-set. Skinny black girls tend to have very small boobs. And before anyone asks I'm trying not to offend anyone.


What in the sam HELL are you talking about?

[CyberCubed]

What in the sam HELL are you talking about?

Read the guy I quoted.

[JTH]

Can we get back to April's development on the show and away from rack sizes on teenage girls.

Please...

[TurtleTitan97]

Can we get back to April's development on the show and away from rack sizes on teenage girls.

Please...

Yeah seriously guys, let's stay on topic. This about April O'Neil, remember?Y'know, that 16 year old girl with the strange connection to the Kraang?

[Cure]

Honestly, I could go a few episodes at a time without April, so I don't really care. I don't overly dislike her, I just like the turtles more.

I am interested to see what her deal is, though. I hope it's not dumb.

[Jester]

Now I kinda feel bad for thinking, "I wonder how long it'll take for people to recognize the double meaning of 'development?'"

Looks like 7 pages....

[drgon78]

I was honestly trying not to do the "development" joke but after like 7 pages I just couldn't help myself.

I think April looks fine just the way she is right now though I wonder if they will age her and the turtles as time goes on.

[BabyTurtles]

.......T^T my thread....what happened to you!!!!

anyway, I think next season April will get more lines and screen time :3

I think the key is for her to break away from Donnie's circle...

[Captain PunchYouHard]

While I think April can stand alone just fine, I really want to see it work out between her and Donnie. I don't think it needs to prevent her personal development or development as a character at all. In fact, I think it would be great for a kids' show to model a functional, non-toxic romantic relationship.

[BabyTurtles]

While I think April can stand alone just fine, I really want to see it work out between her and Donnie. I don't think it needs to prevent her personal development or development as a character at all. In fact, I think it would be great for a kids' show to model a functional, non-toxic romantic relationship.

I really don't mind either way, as long as that doesn't become 80% of her character. :)

and as long as Donnie tones down his crushing....by alot.

though I prefer her with Casey.

[Leo656]

I don't think society as a whole is ready to accept a human/mutant turtle romantic relationship as anything more than implied. Once you come out and actually say they're a couple, you start pissing various people off. It'll never happen. So they'll most likely start to have April be drawn more to Casey and Don's character will have to grow and mature over the course of the show as he accepts it.

Not that April's character should be overly tied solely to her relationships with ANY male character, but the writers kind of boxed themselves in with that one by featuring Donnie's crush so prominently right from the get-go. It's good if the "crush" angle fades away, because that will open up room for more emphasis on everything else going on with her.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Eh, I can't be the only one who sees them more as people stuck permanently in extremely unfortunate costumes. They're so sapient (which is why the "furry" angle doesn't turn me off).

[Leo656]

I won't argue, but I will point out that TMNT is for the most part a kids property and most kids' parents would not approve of one of the Turtles "hooking up" with April. Just sayin'.

*I'm* not a person who thinks it's that big a deal; frankly, I'm kind of a libertine on stuff like that. If April and Donnie were established as a pair and it wasn't done just for laughs, it wouldn't bother me too much; it's fiction, it's all fake anyway. Lois Lane sleeps with an alien, Kristen Stewart's character is a necrophiliac in "Twilight", and nobody really looks at it too deeply, so really, it's whatever.

But I can totally understand why some people think it's "Just Plain Wrong", and their opinions count, too. And there's more of them.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I won't argue, but I will point out that TMNT is for the most part a kids property and most kids' parents would not approve of one of the Turtles "hooking up" with April. Just sayin'.

*I'm* not a person who thinks it's that big a deal; frankly, I'm kind of a libertine on stuff like that. If April and Donnie were established as a pair and it wasn't done just for laughs, it wouldn't bother me too much; it's fiction, it's all fake anyway. Lois Lane sleeps with an alien, Kristen Stewart's character is a necrophiliac in "Twilight", and nobody really looks at it too deeply, so really, it's whatever.

But I can totally understand why some people think it's "Just Plain Wrong", and their opinions count, too. And there's more of them.

I do see your points, but I'd honestly be surprised if many parents noticed. However, I can see Nick not wanting to take the risk, so in the end the result may be the same.

[Jester]

Parents noticed Jason Bigg's Twitter feed...they'd notice.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

So...parents are willing to actually parent when it comes to protesting mild off-coloredness on TV, but not when it comes to their spawn blowing out my eardrums in a nice restaurant.

Yeah, sounds about right.

(Back on topic, sorry.)

[Leo656]

:lol: Kids should be kept on leashes in the yard until they're 10, if you ask me. :lol:

[Konchadunga]

:lol: Kids should be kept on leashes in the yard until they're 10, if you ask me. :lol:

You joke, but I'd be for banning them in some public places. No babies in movie theaters, no babies in restaurants, and no mature kids if they don't shut up. I really just about lose my appetite every time I see, hear, or smell a baby.

[Leo656]

I can agree with all of that at once.

[Vivi]

Now I kinda feel bad for thinking, "I wonder how long it'll take for people to recognize the double meaning of 'development?'"

Looks like 7 pages....

Try page 4.

The thread should be renamed: April and her development and her development.

As for the Mary Sue aspect...yeah, to me it is, kindof. It's a blurry line. Feel free to disagree, but there it is.

[Leo656]

Double entendre's are the highest form of comedy.

[Jester]

Try page 4.

The thread should be renamed: April and her development and her "development".

Gotta have the quotes, or the double entendre doesn't work.

[Vivi]

Gotta have the quotes, or the double entendre doesn't work.

There's no double intention here. The discussion has been extremely blatant.

My reaction to the last few pages:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt241/vivi_letigre/dafuq_zps3ca6d686.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/vivi_letigre/media/dafuq_zps3ca6d686.jpg.html)

[Leo656]

^^^ Looks like Raph and Leo finally figured out how to un-scramble the porn channel. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

This gif shows that Nick DID make April curvy, but its appropiate to her age:

http://i.imgur.com/N4aH53W.gif

I bet in a few years after the current 7-8 year olds watching age and become teens, they're going to make posts saying they had a "crush" on Nick April when they were kids. :lol:

[drgon78]

Yeah she isn't flat or anything and she is only like 5'1''.

Well I doubt there are too many female cartoon characters that guys didn't have a crush on when they were younger.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, if you're bothered by the thread being what it is, BT, you could always rename it to "April and her character development." I'm not bothered by it though. I think it's funny.

[BabyTurtles]

Well, if you're bothered by the thread being what it is, BT, you could always rename it to "April and her character development." I'm not bothered by it though. I think it's funny.

lol I think people get it now XD

or got it outta their systems at least.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Nope!! I thought it was hilarious! And incidentally, that bit about premature puberty is true, and it's a trend that has been going on a lot longer than 10 years. In my pre-teen days, it hit around 11-12, or sometimes thirteen for most girls. I hit it at 10. Now, it's not unheard of for it to hit at 8 or 9, or even 7! It has to do with diet and the chemical content in water, if I recall the article I saw on it a few years back.

And as an aside, I am also 5'0", 96 lbs, and a C. (Yup, I'm busty for my size- have been since high school.) April's size would probably be a little UNDER the norm these days, if anything. Probably just a late bloomer.....

And back to the topic- I have no issues with her character development so far, though I'm not a HUGE fan of the April/Don match. I can get why they did it, but I'd like to see her branch out on her own a bit more- like the ep with her and Karai. Or what she was up to in Operation Break-out.

[drgon78]

I really like the Karai's vendetta episode because it focused so much on April. I would really like to see more episodes like that one. I like the whole Donnie crush thing but I agree she needs to interact more with the other turtles and some other human characters.

[Raphaeline]

It's not about the size of April, it's more about her face. It looks sooo childish. I remember when she appears for the first time the 1st episode, I was like: :o "who is that little girl of 10 years old with her daddy? no, it cannot be April..."

She has a baby face.