How do you feel about the 2012 Splinter/Shredder rivalry?

[NinjaMan]

To me it's the best version of the rivalry. To me it just seems really emotional and tense like it should. I never really got that from the OT or the 03 toon. And their whole scene in the finale just really flowed well.

[TurtleTitan97]

Yeah, I really like it as well.

[Shark_Blade]

The best.

And they added Karai/Miwa twist in it and things get a little more complex and complicated.

I love it.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Season finale nailed it.

[WhitefinDolphin]

I loved how they not only made Splinter fight like a ninja, but also fight like a rat.

[Electric]

favorite shredder-splinter rivalry yet, especially like it since splinter started out human, unlike 2k3, so the rivalry has more history.

and this splinter is just awesome, loved the rat-ninja fighting

[Eiko]

Really well done really feel for Splinter hearing his daughter say father to Shredder heartbreaking.

[BubblyShell22]

This is the best interpretation of the rivalry yet, and it makes more sense for Splinter to be human. Adding Tang Shen and Miwa into the mix really intensified it, especially when Shredder accused Splinter of stealing Shen from him and then gloated that he took Splinter's daughter. That was powerful, especially with the flashbacks.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The 1987 show and Archie were all about the Foot Clan leadership.

This had the original Mirage love triangle, and some new plots dealing with family relationships. Another TMNT aspect: A soap opera taking palce in the shadows! :)

[snake]

Awesome, this series handled it right,

[Tazi]

Pretty cool, kinda reminds me to what happened in IDW about a year ago, when the Foot abducted Splinter to join them, but they ended up Splinter trashing the whole clan all by himself. (well except Shredder)

Also, there are things I don't like about this Nick cartoon, but they definitely got Splinter right, he is no more a 'Mr. Miyagi' type of character as he was in OT and 4kids. This is definitely the best animated version of him so far.

[CyberCubed]

unlike 2k3, so the rivalry has more history. ng

Shredder killed Hamato Yoshi in 2k3, I'd say the rivalry was just as bitter there.

[Leo2k3]

The Shredder Splinter rivalry in this series seems to me an afterthought. The reason being is that we did not have any episodes focus on splinters' past and history with the shredder. If Shredder knew the turtles lived in the sewer why did he not make this a top priority to finally get splinter and his turtles. It just feels that the shows' first season was trying to accomplish too much and splinter kind of got lost by the wayside, to focus more on the kraang.

It just seems the fight(during the season finale) between the two was lacking in weight, because we did not get any on-screen history, or story points until the last minute. It is tough to care about a certain character if we don't know enough about him beforehand.

I must also add that splinters character depth and growth could have been expanded upon to strengthen the relationships with his sons. Hopefully we will get slightly more shredder and splinter moments in season 2.:tsmile:

[pingclang]

I loved it. They're doing their own thing with it and doing it right. I'm still a sucker for the original hatred Splinter had in Mirage, but this is great, too. Hope they expand on it quickly.

[Donatello19]

The Shredder Splinter rivalry in this series seems to me an afterthought. The reason being is that we did not have any episodes focus on splinters' past and history with the shredder. If Shredder knew the turtles lived in the sewer why did he not make this a top priority to finally get splinter and his turtles. It just feels that the shows' first season was trying to accomplish too much and splinter kind of got lost by the wayside, to focus more on the kraang.

It just seems the fight(during the season finale) between the two was lacking in weight, because we did not get any on-screen history, or story points until the last minute. It is tough to care about a certain character if we don't know enough about him beforehand.

I must also add that splinters character depth and growth could have been expanded upon to strengthen the relationships with his sons. Hopefully we will get slightly more shredder and splinter moments in season 2.:tsmile:

He obviously just found out recently since Kirby was just brainwashed recently as well...

Seriously? I think many will agree that that was one of the best fights in the series so far. We got Flashbacks throughout it, so I don't know what you mean by "on screen history"....and we know plenty about the characters already..

Seriously? This is probably the most fatherly Splinter we've seen...and this is only the first season.

[Leo2k3]

I apologize for the misunderstanding, but the flashbacks came to late IMO. There should have been more buildup to the Shredder and Splinters fight. The fight itself was cool, in that the moves were awesome. I meant the reasoning behind the fighting itself. It is like the writers forget to give them a reason to fight each other.

[Jester]

Me thinks you've forgotten most of the season. The build up is there.

Kinda like the multiple training sequences.

[Powder]

I think it's great, but it does need a little more focus in the series, I think.

[saber16]

By far my favorite. I just love how personal it gets. And Shredder revealing the truth about Karai. A lot of us saw it coming a mile a way... but just seeing it hit Splinter like a sack of bricks, seeing the emotion impact it created... and all the while, Shredder looking on with satisfaction as he watches Splinter's own daughter curse his name... I didn't think the reveal would hit so hard, but... this is Shredder at his worst. Yeah, other incarnations have gone to extremes, even to the point of wiping out all existence, but for me what Shredder's doe do Splinter and Karai is heartless and sick. Not only is this his way of getting back as Splinter, but this is the only way he could ever gain love from Tang Shen, in a twisted sense.

[Ravenxl7]

It's by far the best variation on their relationship. Yoshi turning into Splinter carries much more weight and history between the two than Yoshi's pet rat ever could. Especially when you add-in the whole Karai situation.

[Atren]

Shredder killed Hamato Yoshi in 2k3, I'd say the rivalry was just as bitter there.

It was not personal for Shredder unlike for this one.

I prefer this version take on their rivalry despite few misgivings. I had hoped Shredder to be less evil incarnate. Also I wished Karai not be Miwa, but that is pretty much settled now.

[The Big Bad]

I'm not sure: at this point, I tend to think it's had the effect of making The Shredder feel like a smaller character than he should be, which would be fine if the series weren't also trying to make him The Big Bad. I mean, the Kraang got repetitive and they had the benefit of a master plan which allowed for lots of varied (if ultimately irrelevant) subplans. Shredder has only one goal, it's one he can't succeed in, and given the series' phobia for definitive resolutions, I don't see how they're not eventually beating on a dead horse.

[AT-Man]

Yea, this one's the best of all.

[DonatelloNinja82]

I apologize for the misunderstanding, but the flashbacks came to late IMO. There should have been more buildup to the Shredder and Splinters fight. The fight itself was cool, in that the moves were awesome. I meant the reasoning behind the fighting itself. It is like the writers forget to give them a reason to fight each other.

I think there was plenty of build up. This is by far my favorite Shredder/Splinter dyanamic. This Shredder is a twisted man to mess with Splinter on such a personal level as to kidnap his daughter and raise her to hate him. Totally twisted. Ch'rell was just nuts, and 87 Shredder seemed to just want to kill Splinter to rid him of his claim to the Foot Clan. The 2k12 rivalry is so intense and emotional...This finale cemented this Splinter as my favorite ever.

[Konchadunga]

I have always preferred Splinter being Hamato Yoshi to him being a rat who learned from Hamato by imitation, and of the adaptations that do that, this one made the backstory far less stupid than the Fred Wolf series did. Having said that, I really would prefer some adaptation that doesn't completely chuck the Mirage Origin's Grey and Gray morality out the window. I think it's a great deal more interesting when Shredder has a legitimate reason to be angry, and Splinter has a legitimate reason to be ashamed and reclusive, and I don't see why giving children a show where nobody is completely good or evil is setting a bad example; to the contrary, it would prepare them much more for the real world. Though I liked how Splinter was about to kill Shredder, before Karai stopped him.

I also wish we could have just one more adaptation where Shredder isn't the big bad; just a dangerous martial artist who's scary but fleeting. This series could have done that, but it looks like Shredder's still around and the Kraang will be reduced to teaming up with him.

[Luckyday]

I just wonder if Karai knows that Splinter is her father but blames him in the same way like Shredder.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't think she does know, but I do think she'd deny it even if it were told to her. I'm going to guess that if Splinter tells the Turtles of all of this that maybe Leo will try and get Karai to join them and leave Shredder.

[TurtleTitan97]

I just wonder if Karai knows that Splinter is her father but blames him in the same way like Shredder.

I didn't really get that from Shredder's dialogue. I think he may have just told her a more twisted version of Splinter's story, with Saki as the good guy.

[NinjaMan]

I didn't really get that from Shredder's dialogue. I think he may have just told her a more twisted version of Splinter's story, with Saki as the good guy.

Yeah that's what I was thinking of as well.

[Luckyday]

That being said, would be a bigger twist if Karai really is Shredder's biological daughter and her mother left Shredder while she was pregnant with her.

[snake]

That being said, would be a bigger twist if Karai really is Shredder's biological daughter and her mother left Shredder while she was pregnant with her.

Then where is Miwa? Shredder claimed to raise her.

[Luckyday]

Then where is Miwa? Shredder claimed to raise her.

No...I mean Miwa/Karai is Shredder's biological daughter. Before Tang Shen was with Splinter, she was maybe married to Shredder but left him (probably because he was an abusive ass of a husband) but at the time unknownst to her, she was pregnant with Miwa (Shredder's biological daughter) so by the time she settled down with Splinter, Miwa was born and Splinter just assume that the baby is his.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That's stretching it. From Splinter's version, we know that Tang Shen was never even with Saki- he tells him "she was never yours!" That tells us that he was simply jealous that she chose Yoshi over him. If anything, they MIGHT have had an affair that caused Miwa's birth, but I seriously doubt it. From the flashbacks, it appears she loved Yoshi completely. Saki's just a possessive, covetous @$$.....

[Luckyday]

I guess so but it could also be one of those big lies that Shredder told Karai.

[U2WaTCHer]

Or remember in rat king ep maybe April is splinters true daughter. They connect ed a lot in show down and rat king ep.

[Technogeek29]

That's stretching it. From Splinter's version, we know that Tang Shen was never even with Saki- he tells him "she was never yours!" That tells us that he was simply jealous that she chose Yoshi over him. If anything, they MIGHT have had an affair that caused Miwa's birth, but I seriously doubt it. From the flashbacks, it appears she loved Yoshi completely. Saki's just a possessive, covetous @$$.....

Hmm that sounds more likely. My guess anyhting that happen to Yoshi was flipped in Saki's version of the story he told Karai.

[BabyTurtles]

I like it :3

but Shredder is totally psycho....

Shredder: " You took Tang Shen away from me!!" :evil:

Splinter: "She was never yours! :x

Shredder needs a doctor.

XD I feel bad for Splinter....they guy just wants to just have a family again...and Shredder just wants him to be miserable!! so uncool.

[Atren]

That's stretching it. From Splinter's version, we know that Tang Shen was never even with Saki- he tells him "she was never yours!" That tells us that he was simply jealous that she chose Yoshi over him. If anything, they MIGHT have had an affair that caused Miwa's birth, but I seriously doubt it. From the flashbacks, it appears she loved Yoshi completely. Saki's just a possessive, covetous @$$.....

If it was not children cartoon I would consider it possible and actually would prefer over current status. Also Splinter is not exactly objective in this so all that she was never yours means they were not married. Tang Shen could been torn between two and finally chose Yoshi over Saki.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't know if they were married or not, but Splinter made it clear that Shen belonged to him and chose him. Saki was just jealous and wanted what Splinter had, so he took Miwa as revenge for Yoshi taking Shen and filled Karai with lies about how Yoshi killed her mother. He probably told Karai that he was the true father and not Splinter as that would make things more believable.

Still, this rivalry is awesome, and I love how Nick has portrayed it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Yoshi turning into Splinter.

Maybe that's the most popular change made for the 1987 show at all.

[Trivia]

It is indeed the best rivalry I've seen in any of the cartoons so far,
but it makes Shredder seem like the bad guy, and only that.
That's probably what they're going for as well, but I wish he actually had a legit reason.

[BubblyShell22]

He DID have a legit reason in his mind. He wanted Shen, was jealous of Yoshi, and fought him, thus killing Shen. Then he decided to take Miwa to pay back Yoshi for taking Shen.