Leonardo IS the best fighter after all! [Archive]

View Full Version : Leonardo IS the best fighter after all!

Karpo_007

06-27-2003, 03:55 PM

Aztec General

06-27-2003, 03:58 PM

Yeah, no question. Especially after the Leo one shot and his performance during Return to New York. Even in the new show there's really no doubt that Leo is the Turtle!

Karpo_007

06-27-2003, 04:09 PM

Yeah, that has been my viewpoint, but now we have the official word as well.

Nturtle

06-27-2003, 04:11 PM

Wow its official!!! Nice!! :lol: Now we can quote the dude in case of another thread about it!!

Karpo_007

06-27-2003, 04:13 PM

Naah, now we need to find another subject to to debate about...

Nturtle

06-27-2003, 04:20 PM

:lol: There are still plently left! Like... "Why does Shredder's armor mutate when he turns into Super Shredder?" or "Why does Mikey have a californian accent?" :P

Karpo_007

06-27-2003, 04:31 PM

First, because writers wanted to make a TMNT movies for kiddies, to whom details like that don't mean a thing.

Second, yeah, why in the hell is that? :lol:

Ghidorah2000

06-27-2003, 04:34 PM

:lol: There are still plently left! Like... "Why does Shredder's armor mutate when he turns into Super Shredder?" or "Why does Mikey have a californian accent?" :P

Probably because as a pet turtle, he had been sent to the NYC Petstore by a dealer in California.

Ghidorah2000

06-27-2003, 04:38 PM

Karpo_007

06-27-2003, 04:40 PM

Issue #10 letters page. This a subject Heretic and I have debated numerous times. At last ome official word.

Ghidorah2000

06-27-2003, 05:24 PM

Issue #10 letters page. This a subject Heretic and I have debated numerous times. At last ome official word.

Too bad I don't own the comic. Was there a thread for it?

Leo656

06-27-2003, 08:43 PM

You're all wrong.

SuperShredder's armor mutated because the normal armor just could not even hope to contain the unbridled power and superbly-conditioned hair of "Big Daddy Cool" Kevin Nash, THAT'S why. It had nothing to do with the script, and all about Nash just being too "Big Sexy" for the regular suit. So there.

TMNTGal

06-27-2003, 11:04 PM

WARNING Fan Girl Ranting Imminent

Come on ppl you all had to know Leo's the best! He's a perfectionist and without a doubt the most skilled. He's always been Splinter's gifted pupil. He's said it sooo many times. He shows an incredible amount of discipline and determination in everything he undertakes, this is expecially true when it comes to training. It's no wonder he's the the best fighter. :D

LOL at Leo 656's post. :lol:

EZweasel

06-28-2003, 12:02 AM

Even in the new show there's really no doubt that Leo is the Turtle! Thats a lie. being the best fighter dont make him the best turtle. its according to what you like in a turtle.

Skeletoncrew

06-28-2003, 12:43 AM

XERO

06-28-2003, 12:57 AM

Of course Leonardo is the best Turtle.

He actually defeated Shredder all by himself!

If that is not skillful, I don't know what is. :D

Quiller-Bee

06-28-2003, 03:21 AM

Even though he's my personal favorite, I wouldn't go as far as to make the statement that Leonardo is singly the “best” turtle. In all fairness, each is unique and is “the best” in his own way. Leo’s undoubtedly the best fighter of the four, but Don's the best at things of a technical/scientific nature, and so on and so forth. Best fighter, yes, but best turtle? In my own opinion, yes, but that's simply a matter of personal preference.

Karpo_007

06-28-2003, 04:55 AM

Yes, Raphael is still my favorite but I have always tought that Leo is the best fighter. Well now we know it for sure.

Quiller-Bee

06-28-2003, 05:34 AM

Raph's my second-favorite turtle, without a doubt. I think it's safe to say that he's also a close second to Leo in terms of fighting skill. Not that Donny and Mikey are anything to laugh at in terms of kicking butt, but Leo and Raph are definitely the Turtles' resident skull-busters.

Nturtle

06-28-2003, 08:16 AM

My theory about Mikey's accent is this: Remember in the first episode of the old show Mikey said that the turtles watch a lot of TV, well people ussually have accents like the accents of people they hear... so I figure Mikey must have been watching all sots of surfing shows and stuff and the people there had californian accents and thus Mikey has one!

Stone Ill

06-28-2003, 08:50 AM

So that explains all of the "Yo dawg, I gawt all da bling-bling yo!"

InsaneZane

06-28-2003, 01:14 PM

I already knew that.. because Ive had this sig before I even saw this topic! :P

BTW I like this, TMNTGal...
http://home.earthlink.net/~leosgal/AvatarsAndSigs/LeonardoSig.jpg
LEO 4 LIFE

TMNTGal

06-28-2003, 01:52 PM

Your sig rules InsaneZane. :D Not only does Leo rule all, but he's also the sexiest. Mwa ha ha!

Ghidorah2000

06-28-2003, 02:03 PM

Well then. Since Leo, Mikey and Raph have been claimed by numerous fangirls I think I'll take Donatello. Not too many people give poor Donny any attention because he's the quiet one.

Caliosidhe

06-28-2003, 07:06 PM

Donatello is my favorite turtle ^^ That I'm not as single mindedly obsessed with him as I was when I was younger. Now I like all the turtles about the same. Mikey slightly less, and Donatello slightly more because of..well.. He's just so cute and loveable ^^

Ghidorah2000

06-29-2003, 04:19 PM

Cascadia

06-29-2003, 11:14 PM

HorseTechie

06-30-2003, 09:56 AM

Jaaa... I'm also a Donatello Fan (wonders why she's posting this in a thread abotu Leo) :P

But I also like Leo too in his own ways.

Ghidorah2000

06-30-2003, 11:26 AM

Jaaa... I'm also a Donatello Fan (wonders why she's posting this in a thread abotu Leo) :P

But I also like Leo too in his own ways.

Well then, I guess Slash is the only available Mutant Turtle.

Ghidorah2000

06-30-2003, 11:28 AM

Ya know...I kinda feel a little sorry for Donny though. He's so hyper intelligent and all. He's a turtle unto himself because his brothers and even Splinter (Well not so much Splinter from the Mirage comics anymore.) can understand him. He has a mind like Stephen Hawkings. He's such a lonely soul in a world of his own.

My passion is science.....no one has understood how my mind works sometimes. I can relate to Donatello in many ways.

I like science and that kind of stuff. I unfortunately am not very intelligent compared to science type people. It takes me a little longer to comprehend things than your usual scientific geniuses.

heretic888

06-30-2003, 01:32 PM

Nice to see you got your letter posted Heretic, and now we have the official Answer, the best fighter is Leo, even if it's barely. Nice debate anyway, nice to see that Laird did answer to the question.

PS. Just had to post this, after so many fun debates!

You're not serious, are you?? I mean you COULD tell the obvious lack of seriousness in that response, right?? I mean, I'm the one that wrote to him and even I could see he was obviously lacking in seriousness (the giveaway is his little nod to Donatello).

In any event, I wouldn't put too much weight in that reply. It struck me as something of a joke of an answer.

Laterz.

Karpo_007

06-30-2003, 01:51 PM

HAH :lol:

That is much more official info than any of your RPG's, It's Laird's opinion. Can't deal with it, fine. If you don't want to accept it, fine too. But now we[everyone else] do have the official word, and won't be debating about this ever again.

heretic888

06-30-2003, 02:00 PM

One word: comedy.

Karpo_007

06-30-2003, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I found your reply very amusing.

Brodie

06-30-2003, 05:50 PM

I could have told you all this before, and have stated stuff like this before: Mikey sucks.

He should be replaced by Casey.

Your choice in turtle sucks, Heretic, even Laird said so.

According to Laird, going by his response, Leo is the best, Donny is second, leaving Raph and Mikey in a flux. But think, Raph is way better than Mikey. All he does is swing around sticks on chains.

TMNT571

06-30-2003, 05:53 PM

You are living in your own little sick word where Mikey is the best it sometimes disturbs me that you lied to your self so much you actually believe what you are saying.

heretic888

06-30-2003, 07:02 PM

That is much more official info than any of your RPG's

The RPG info involved the input from BOTH Laird AND Eastman (heh, forgot about him, did we?), and, unlike Pete's response, was not created in jest. Besides, Dan flat-out told me in no uncertain terms that both Eastman and Laird agreed with Palladium's basic presentation of their characters.

It's Laird's opinion.

Speaking as the guy HE WAS ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO, it struck me more as a half-joking brush-off. I wouldn't put much weight on it.

Can't deal with it, fine. If you don't want to accept it, fine too.

The only thing that can't be 'dealt with' or 'accepted' here is a sense of humor. Fer crissakes, lighten the **** up.

But now we[everyone else] do have the official word

Oh, I didn't realize we were debating theological dogma here, Pope Karpo. Forgive me, for I have blasphemed against the Church of St. Peter!!

Tell me, by your own admission that that half-joke of a reply to my email is the 'official word', then would you reckon Donatello as the 'second best', as Pete's letter implies?? And, considering Mikey has taken Raph more than once, would that make the berserker turtle the worst fighter of the bunch??

Hmmmm.... intriguing, no??

and won't be debating about this ever again.

I'll say it again: comedy.

Yeah, I found your reply very amusing.

Be that as it may, the really amusing thing (to me anyways) is when people say things like "official" and "canon" and "the word" when talking about a comic book. Damn, it's like its your Bible or something!

I could have told you all this before, and have stated stuff like this before: Mikey sucks.

Gee, yet another sob that lacks a sense of humor. Praytell, oh omniscient one, if Mikey 'sucks' could you perhaps give reasons as to WHY?!

He should be replaced by Casey.

Mike should be replaced by Casey like Jessie Jackson should be President of the United States.

Your choice in turtle sucks, Heretic, even Laird said so.

You must have read a different letter reply than me, then. He said no such thing in response to me.

According to Laird, going by his response, Leo is the best, Donny is second

I have no problem with Leo being 'the best' as it would obviously be a close 'race' to begin with (if you actually check some of my more recent postings, I admit that Leo and Mike would probably be too close to decisively declare). But, the very fact that Pete implies Don being 'second' lends me to believe this is just a half-serious brushoff in which he seems to be playing favorites.

leaving Raph and Mikey in a flux. But think, Raph is way better than Mikey.

Actually, the two times we have seen them spar Mike beat Raph (oh yeah, and Raph best Casey which mean, guess what? Mike can take Casey). Mike also trains much more than Raph (weighlifting does not count as combat training in my book).

All he does is swing around sticks on chains.

Your lack of combat knowledge is both painful and amusing at the same time.

You are living in your own little sick word where Mikey is the best it sometimes disturbs me that you lied to your self so much you actually believe what you are saying.

And I leave you to the Freudeans, my little projectionist friend.

Truly amusing, indeed.

Karpo_007

06-30-2003, 07:25 PM

Yes he said it with Humour, but still he admitted that Altough Donaello is his favorite turtle, he still thinks it's Leonardo. If it was a joke He could have just said it was Don. But he didn't, and thats where you get his opinion, right now the only one tha counts. It is amusing that you can't admit you are wrong, not just in this matter but in pretty much in everything else to. Im not really feeling immature enough to start calling names, so I rest my case here.

Cascadia

06-30-2003, 10:50 PM

very good point made Karpo..... :)

Eye of Sarnath

07-01-2003, 07:09 AM

I'm interested in seeing the response. I don't have the comic, could someone type it up?

heretic888

07-01-2003, 08:03 AM

Yes he said it with Humour

Which kind of compromises the 'official'-ness (or whatever divine designation you wish to bestow, Pope Karpo) of the statement. Unlike the statements Dan made to me, which were not in jest.

but still he admitted that Altough Donaello is his favorite turtle

Everyone knows Donny is Pete's fave, dude.

still thinks it's Leonardo.

Ok, a couple of things in regard to that:

1) My most obvious followup question would be 'why'?? I mean, it has been more than implied before that Raph is the strongest (in terms of muscle that is) and Mike the most dexterous/agile. So... why exactly is Leo the best fighter??

If I were to make a guess I would say its a matter of image. Leo is the 'look at me: I'm the stereotypical warrior' type and very samurai-esque in nature. Of course, anyone familiar with martial arts in general and Ninpo in particular wouldn't make those conclusions, but its fairly easy to see how the uninitiated would.

A second likely answer would be that Leo is the best 'mental' fighter. Meaning, he has the greatest mental endurance/patience of the four and is the best strategist/tactitian (recall Mikey's Art of War statement in issue 1). Of course, this once again reveals an ignorance of both hand to hand combat in general and Ninpo in particular (street fighting is very different from war, making strategy somewhat useless), particularly the notion of 'formlessness' and 'no mind'. Mike seems to me more likely to manifest these 'abilities' than Leonardo.

Ultimately, it would be very difficult to say who is decisively the 'best fighter'. And, Pete's reply was anything but 'decisive' or 'official'. It struck me as if he hadn't thought about the matter very much (there are more important things to consider in one's characters and their development than 'who's the best', after all). Mike most likely has something of a physical advantage over the others with his impressive agility and dexterity (recall when he went through that 'agility machine' at the Ultrom gymn), but Leo may have the mental edge with his patience and discipline and superb strategism. Then again, Leo strikes me as possibly being too 'rigid' in mind to manifest 'no mind' whereas that seems like something Mikey is perfectly suited for.

I will again posit that Mike and Leo would be about a draw. Too close to call, in my book.

2) If Pete says Leo is 'the best', what does Kev say?? (Oh yeah, still forgot about him, didn't we??) Pete didn't create these characters by himself. And, I can recall at least two instances in which it is intimated Mikey is 'the best' in the Mirage series itself (although they are somewhat indirect). Its interesting to know what Senor Eastman has to say.

3) You never answered my question, Karpo. If we take what Laird says as 'official', this seems to make Raphael the most unskilled, least combatically proficient of the four. Would you agree on this?? If not, then your position that Leo is 'officially' the best is nothing short of hypocrisy (not a big stretch for a Pope, neh?).

If it was a joke He could have just said it was Don.

I don't have a problem with Leo being 'the best'. I DO have a problem with Donatello being the 'second best'. That just seems ridiculous to me.

But he didn't, and thats where you get his opinion, right now the only one tha counts.

Ever heard of Kevin Eastman?? We haven't heard what he had to say. And, again, the RPG stats were made with the 'blessings' of both Kev and Pete and were NOT created in jest like Pete's letter.

It is amusing that you can't admit you are wrong, not just in this matter but in pretty much in everything else to.

I am sorry I do not embrace superficiality and shallowness like the majority of others on this board. Pardon me for possessing some amount of knowledge of what I'm talking about. Then again, we know what great martial arts and combatic authorities post on here regularly, oh omniscient and humble one.

Im not really feeling immature enough to start calling names, so I rest my case here.

Next to Tokka, you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on here. You just spent the previous sentence putting me down and now you claim you're not. Seriously, Karpo, start your own religion. You're a shoe-in. :roll:

very good point made Karpo.....

Yeah, if you ignore the blatant lack of knowledge regarding the subject matter and the extreme hypocrisy, not to mention facetious narcissism.

Karpo_007

07-01-2003, 08:21 AM

I didn't want to lock this thread before, it would have been unfair, but Now he is not only attacking me but others as well. You can believe what you want, but now you have again gone to far, thinking that everyone is below you, and that you know everyone and have right to call them what ever you want. In fact I recall this is why you got your warning in the first place. So before I let this go any furter, I will lock this thread. Im afraid this won't be the last time Heretic falls into this kind of immaturity... But from now on I won't fuel it, I suggest others will do the same, this thread serves no one.

Now I do regret starting whole thread, didn't know what a fight would become of it...