Did the Nick series REALLY have a choice besides choosing a tonal "middle ground"?

[Refractive Reflections]

I've been noticing that a lot of members here are complimenting how great this Nick series is, in terms of combining both the best elements of both the OT and 2K3 especially in terms of the Nick's tone (and even in some of the characters). Where the comedy and serious scenes are properly balanced for its entertainment value.

But... I have to say, do you think this Nick series really had a choice other than choosing the intermediate "middle ground" point, in terms of tone, between the two extremes of the OT and 2K3, in order to be received well? We all know that the OT was incredibly light with slapstick comedy, and that the 2K3 series pushed the boundaries of dark/serious storytelling for a cartoon (for example, with the scrapped episode of "Nightmares Recycled"), so where else could the Nick series go than in between? Otherwise critics would have stated the Nick series was "too OT" or "too 2K3" if it started and/or ventured off toward either extreme.

So was the Nick series already compelled/pressured to go down the middle to be a success?

With all that said, it makes one wonder if there is a 4th series, 10 years or so from now, if people will be comparing it to somewhere in between Nick & 2K3, or Nick & OT in terms of tone. Plus, it could make that 4th series more difficult to distinguish itself with three shows in the tonal spectrum of TMNT cartoons.

[snake]

Nope. If it strays to far to a certain side, it'll try to hard to be that show, and people will complain. It's best to have the show stay in the middle.

[Leo2k3]

I think the nick series was compelled to be a middle ground. In some ways I feel the Nick series took elements from both the 2k3 series and OT series and tried to combine them, so the result would be something not seen in the previous series, namely the teenage aspect. It has decent action from the 2003 series but the humor aspects are an element that was prevalent for the OT series.

The 2k3 series already pushed itself to be as dark as it could be, for a Saturday morning children's block. The Nick series had no where else to go but the middle, IMO.:tsmile:

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

I think the guys running the show... and I'm just getting into the Nick show so I'm not sure who he/they are... were already fans of the property. I think there were two scenarios that may have happened: they were approached by Nick to come up with shows (a friend of mine, Mike, has just recently been approached by Nick to come up with ideas for a show) and they said "We would like to do Ninja Turtles". The second is that Nick, who obtained the rights of the Turtles, seeked out these guys based on previous works and who were fans of the show.

But no matter what... Ninja Turtles sells. You look at what did work and didn't work and you go from there.
Batman worked so we got Batman Returns. That worked so the movie's scale and comic-look was increased to Batman Forever. That seemed to work so we got Batman and Robin. Fail. Years later, and just like the comics, when the property was no longer a fresh joke, it was revived like a Phoenix from the ashes of old and we got Batman Begins and onward.

Same with the Ninja Turtles in that regard. You learn what works and you go on. The comics were an underground success. The cartoon was born of that but at children and their parents' wallets. It worked for and against the source but it did work. 10 seasons and 9 years later the show ended and the follow up was the live action, loose-movie-tie-in Next Mutation. It should have worked, but it didn't.
Similarly the first live action movie worked great for old and young fans but not the young fan's parents. The sequel was made more "kid friendly" and made closer to the camp, light, slapstick of the cartoon. It worked (and didn't, in a sense) and so we got the 3rd film. The Turtles more or less died there and 5 years later (from NM) reemerged in the 2003 show.

I'm sure Nick was looking for something that would last longer than a season. I think those involved care enough about the property and yet they want to put their own stamp on the series as well. I think they understand, based on previous attempts, what worked and didn't in the past. Just as we are discussing what did or didn't work in all regards of the Turtles. Will it last 9 or 10 years? It's doubtful, with how television is now... but if Jersey Shore can get 6 seasons, I see no reason why a quality show, as this has been shaping up, shouldn't get as much time on air.

I think the only pressure on these guys is to maintain the quality of Season 1 forward.

[demoman]

Don't forget that there's many aspects that are not middle ground or 'averaged' by any means. For example, the turles talk and act like teenagers this time around. I believe that's a first. In every other version, 98, 03, comics, they have all been more like young adults.

[JTH]

I don't think they were compelled to. Nick has been known to make their fair share of cheese-fest cartoons. Ciro and crew could have made the show as corny and cheesy as possible also.

I think being fans of the franchise themselves, they simple took elements from each version they liked and combined them into a workable mean, adding their own twists along the way.

[pingclang]

I think they pretty much took the same approach to the show as IDW is their current run on Turtles: They're pulling things they like from every incarnation of Turtles and making it work. They gave it it`s own look and style and just adapt the things they want in to that. All I can say is whatever choice they made to create the new series, it friggin works.

[Coola Yagami]

It's kinda/sorta what the 80's show would have been if it was made now. Full of comedy and silliness... but when it came to fighting, they'd actually fight instead of just tossing pizza around.

[kelligrafie]

Maybe the bigwigs at Nick would want that apparent 'middle ground' because if they don't attract maximum viewing figures, the show's a waste of time and money.

But I really believe Ciro and the crew just genuinely wanted to make the show the best they could. Their passion for the show comes through in everything.

Since I never watched the 2003 series I wouldn't know how those two series compare. But I'm glad 2012 isn't all slapstick like 1987. Don't get me wrong, at the time it was great and right for its audience but nowadays kids are growing up quicker and there's a need for more 'realism' in cartoons to a certain degree.

[Coola Yagami]

Maybe the bigwigs at Nick would want that apparent 'middle ground' because if they don't attract maximum viewing figures, the show's a waste of time and money.

But I really believe Ciro and the crew just genuinely wanted to make the show the best they could. Their passion for the show comes through in everything.

Since I never watched the 2003 series I wouldn't know how those two series compare. But I'm glad 2012 isn't all slapstick like 1987. Don't get me wrong, at the time it was great and right for its audience but nowadays kids are growing up quicker and there's a need for more 'realism' in cartoons to a certain degree.

It's not about kids growing up or demanding realism. It's about the censors. I'm sure I would have still loved the TMNT if they were actually kicking ass in the 80's cartoon (after all, they were doing actual backflips and spinkicks in the live action movies, and the games had them actually fight too).

Basically speaking if the 5-ep premiere had more hardcore fighting action, it would have been cancelled due to angry parent backlash. The first movie wasn't THAT violent (the most violent thing being I guess Leo actually cutting Shredder in the arm and Tatsu smacking the crap out of a kid) but parents complained so much they didn't let the Turtles use their weapons in the sequel...

Dude, as tame as it was, friggin HE-MAN in the 80's was still considered 'one of the most violent cartoons on television' and Filmation had to deal with parental backlash there too.

It was just hard to make an action cartoon back in dem days. Kids aren't growing up quicker. The censors are slowly growing some balls.

[CyberCubed]

It's kinda/sorta what the 80's show would have been if it was made now. Full of comedy and silliness... but when it came to fighting, they'd actually fight instead of just tossing pizza around.

I agree with this. If the censors weren't so hard on the OT in the 80's it would have been a lot like Nick is now, just without all the anime gags.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's not about kids growing up or demanding realism. It's about the censors. I'm sure I would have still loved the TMNT if they were actually kicking ass in the 80's cartoon (after all, they were doing actual backflips and spinkicks in the live action movies, and the games had them actually fight too).

Basically speaking if the 5-ep premiere had more hardcore fighting action, it would have been cancelled due to angry parent backlash. The first movie wasn't THAT violent (the most violent thing being I guess Leo actually cutting Shredder in the arm and Tatsu smacking the crap out of a kid) but parents complained so much they didn't let the Turtles use their weapons in the sequel...

Dude, as tame as it was, friggin HE-MAN in the 80's was still considered 'one of the most violent cartoons on television' and Filmation had to deal with parental backlash there too.

It was just hard to make an action cartoon back in dem days. Kids aren't growing up quicker. The censors are slowly growing some balls.

What cartoon was most violent back in the 1970's? Maybe Superfriends (a Justice League show)?

[Coola Yagami]

What cartoon was most violent back in the 1970's? Maybe Superfriends (a Justice League show)?

I'm not sure. I do remember the flak they got for He-Man.... but I wasn't around to know anything 'behind-the-scenes' about Super Friends.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

But I'm glad 2012 isn't all slapstick like 1987.

I fully agree.

[WhitefinDolphin]

I've been noticing that a lot of members here are complimenting how great this Nick series is, in terms of combining both the best elements of both the OT and 2K3 especially in terms of the Nick's tone (and even in some of the characters). Where the comedy and serious scenes are properly balanced for its entertainment value.

But... I have to say, do you think this Nick series really had a choice other than choosing the intermediate "middle ground" point, in terms of tone, between the two extremes of the OT and 2K3, in order to be received well? We all know that the OT was incredibly light with slapstick comedy, and that the 2K3 series pushed the boundaries of dark/serious storytelling for a cartoon (for example, with the scrapped episode of "Nightmares Recycled"), so where else could the Nick series go than in between? Otherwise critics would have stated the Nick series was "too OT" or "too 2K3" if it started and/or ventured off toward either extreme.

So was the Nick series already compelled/pressured to go down the middle to be a success?

With all that said, it makes one wonder if there is a 4th series, 10 years or so from now, if people will be comparing it to somewhere in between Nick & 2K3, or Nick & OT in terms of tone. Plus, it could make that 4th series more difficult to distinguish itself with three shows in the tonal spectrum of TMNT cartoons.

I'd say aside from the OT and the 2k3 series, the Nick series' style is a category on its own since the Turtles are much more like teenagers, April is a teenager with something unique that the Kraang desire, the Turtles ninjutsu is much more authentic, and Splinter proves he isn't all talk. That being said, I believe that Nickelodeon took most of the basic elements of TMNT and expanded on it making it somewhat more believable and endearing at the same time.

Another thing the OT series and the 2k3 series didn't have, is that Nickelodeon has a BIG company name, compared to 4kids. Nickelodeon is a large organization with a big budget, and for a series that they know shows promise for success, they'd pour lots of their time and money into the marketing research. An example of that is Mikey's realistic modern teenager personality.

As far as there being a fourth series in the future, I'm thinking they might just start with a clean slate and go from there. They may or may not make the Turtles like teenagers again - I can't be sure.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't think they were forced to have a middle ground. Like others have said, I think Ciro and the crew took elements from the stuff they liked and mixed it all together while adding homages to comics, the OT, etc. so that fans of those mediums could spot them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Another thing the OT series and the 2k3 series didn't have, is that Nickelodeon has a BIG company name, compared to 4kids. Nickelodeon is a large organization with a big budget, and for a series that they know shows promise for success, they'd pour lots of their time and money into the marketing research. An example of that is Mikey's realistic modern teenager personality.



I agree. Compare it to Disney. You may say you "watch Disney" whenever you watch Darkwing Duck, Ducktales, Talespin or Chip & Dale: Recue Rangers (the only Disney I liked). Noone says they watch "Fred Wolf Studios" or "4 Kids".

[Refractive Reflections]

So since most people are stating that the Nick show is incorporating the best of the previous incarnations of TMNT. What percentage of each one do you think is incorporated in the Nick version?

For example: ? % OT + ? % 2K3 + ? % Movies + ? % Comics (Archie, Mirage, IDW) + ? % New ideas/storywriting = 100% of what the Nick is composed of.

[CyberCubed]

Most of the stuff is from the OT so far, but there are a lot more Mirage aspects than I expected.

I honestly can't think of any 4kids elements so far.

[Technogeek29]

Most of the stuff is from the OT so far, but there are a lot more Mirage aspects than I expected.

I honestly can't think of any 4kids elements so far.

The only 4kids thing I've notice is Leo & Donnie's relationship with Karai & April. Only while it was obvious Leo like Karai but Don was implied to like April. In Nick It's obvious Donnie likes April and implied Leo likes Karai. Universal parallel flip here, im surprised no one has caught it.

[Xav]

With all that said, it makes one wonder if there is a 4th series, 10 years or so from now, if people will be comparing it to somewhere in between Nick & 2K3, or Nick & OT in terms of tone. Plus, it could make that 4th series more difficult to distinguish itself with three shows in the tonal spectrum of TMNT cartoons.This is the 4th series.
The only 4kids thing I've notice is Leo & Donnie's relationship with Karai & April.That and Karai being Shredder's adopted daughter.

[Refractive Reflections]

This is the 4th series.

:P You know what I mean, the 4th animated series.

[Bry]

The tone they've chosen is very deliberate, and it works very well. There's an perfect balance between the fun/goofy slapstick stuff and the serious, high-stakes action. Fans have come to expect both, and it delivers both. And I'm especially impressed by how Splinter/Hamato Yoshi's backstory is one of the most emotionally-charged and tragic versions yet - and this is in a kids' cartoon!

Even the intro sequence is like a mission statement: they're using a variation of the '87 theme, set against some solid ninja action with a kinetic sense of fun, and the final shot is the Turtles striking the Mirage #1 cover pose to remind the viewer this show remembers its roots.

[PApagreg]

:P You know what I mean, the 4th animated series.

The one that actually count

[Luckyday]

I thought it was a unspoken rule to pretend that "it" never happen.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I think this show is more closer to 2k3 than it is 87. If anything, they only brought in a few element from the OT into this show (pizza, Krang, the theme song). The turtles go out at night as opposed to day, they don't go out on patrol or where human disguises, and the jokes don't consist of fourth-wall breaking or cultural references. To me, I think it's closer to the source material with only a few things from the OT.

[Heather Breckel]

At this point there's been so many incarnations of TMNT, I would be surprised if there was ever a version that didn't incorporate stuff from the previous versions. I think it works as is tonally.

[Luckyday]

Do you work on the nick's TMNT?
http://media.tumblr.com/1f53a807524e32acff9c74d8b96b6e19/tumblr_inline_mlh1xqesTw1qz4rgp.gif