Donatello as Leader

[Leo2k3]

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but here goes. I think this show would have been slighty better, and/or different if Donatello was the leader. He has shown himself worthy in a couple of instances, and he seems pretty skilled with his staff. Especially since the show didn't really give a "reason" as Leonardo is the leader beyond him asking to be, if I remember correctly.

One example would be the second fight with snake weed. He held him off long enough, for him, Raph, and Mikey to escape. I think this would have been a cool shake-up. However the crush on April might get in the way of his responsibilities, but this could have been an issue he could have learned to deal with along with his leadership role.

Also I was wondering why Donatello has the crush on April by himself? Would it have been more fun if all the brothers had a crush on April?:tsmile:

[Luckyday]

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but here goes. I think this show would have been slighty better, and/or different if Donatello was the leader. He has shown himself worthy in a couple of instances, and he seems pretty skilled with his staff. Especially since the show didn't really give a "reason" as Leonardo is the leader beyond him asking to be, if I remember correctly.

One example would be the second fight with snake weed. He held him off long enough, for him, Raph, and Mikey to escape. I think this would have been a cool shake-up. However the crush on April might get in the way of his responsibilities, but this could have been an issue he could have learned to deal with along with his leadership role.

Also I was wondering why Donatello has the crush on April by himself? Would it have been more fun if all the brothers had a crush on April?:tsmile:

No. No it wouldn't because then she appear more of a Mary Sue.:x

[CyberCubed]

The only series where Donatello could have been the leader was the original cartoon. In that series he pretty much told all the other Turtles what to do most of the time.

[BabyTurtles]

maybe..but he gets pushed around alot in this series XD....

I remember when Raph was the leader and he made Donnie work faster by threatening to punch him XDD

and he is great with the bo....but he's arguably the weakest turtle (physically)

he's the smartest though~ :)

[Luckyday]

Well in the mirage, he was consider second in command and when Leo was unconscious during the ambush of the gift shop, he was giving out orders.

[Electric]

i think its kind of an unspoken thing that don would generally be the leader if leos not present

[TurtleTitan97]

Why should Donnie be the leader? Leo's proven himself plenty of times that's he's a great leader.

[BabyTurtles]

Why should Donnie be the leader? Leo's proven himself plenty of times that's he's a great leader.

I agree :3 Leo is a great leader

he works well under pressure
is both smart and strong

and he has the katana so that makes him the leader :D

[TurtleTitan97]

I agree :3 Leo is a great leader

he works well under pressure
is both smart and strong

and he has the katana so that makes him the leader :D

^ This, and he sacrificed himself twice to save his brothers. I don't think Donnie would do something like that.

Also, no, it would not be fun to see all 4 turtles crushing on April.

[BabyTurtles]

Also, no, it would not be fun to see all 4 turtles crushing on April.

it's barely bearable when just one of them is crushing.... :|

[Jester]

I've always seen Donnie as the #2 Turtle...like Cubded said, in the FW series, Donnie was always saving the day...WITH SCIENCE!!

[Electric]

I've always seen Donnie as the #2 Turtle...like Cubded said, in the FW series, Donnie was always saving the day...WITH SCIENCE!!

isnt he the second oldest too?

[BabyTurtles]

isnt he the second oldest too?

in 2012?

Donnie is the second youngest :3

Raph is the second oldest

[Technogeek29]

isnt he the second oldest too?

In IDW he is the 2nd oldest.

[Bossa Nova]

^ This, and he sacrificed himself twice to save his brothers. I don't think Donnie would do something like that.



I'm pretty sure they would ALL do this if required of them, not just Leo :ohwell:

[Donatello19]

As much as I'd love for Donnie to be the leader, I really can't imagine it not being Leo's role.

[Electric]

In IDW he is the 2nd oldest.

i read multiple places that one of the creators said donnie was the second oldest, then raph, and i like to see it that way

[Donatello19]

Aren't they all 15 in the Nick cartoon?

[Shark_Blade]

If we're talking about Don in IDW, then yes. He's very opinionated and questions Leo's logic a LOT in the comic (even arguing with him! Which surprised me since that was Raph's thing. I love it!). Plus he has the knowledge know how, and that's always best in decision makings - to have all the information as much as you can.

Either way, Don in Nick is capable as well from what I see.

[BubblyShell22]

I doubt Don would want that burden once he learns how it can be. We saw this with Raph and how he learned exactly how much pressure it is to be the leader. I'm not saying he would be a horrible leader, but I don't think he'd really want it. He's content just doing his own thing.

And, no, I don't want all of the Turtles to crush on April because that would just be horrible.

[sirroscoe]

I may be the only one who may disagree. Despite Donnie's brillaint mind, he wouldn't make a good leader (as of now). He's easily irritable, has a compulsive need to over-explain things, and at times can be too focused to notice things around him. He likes to overplan, which leaves him vulnerable if things go wrong. He doesn't possess Leo's strategic mind or his ability to improv when plans sour (and the ability to keep cool and focused while doing so). In time, he can be leadership material, but as of now, his speciality is science, not battle tactics.

[JTH]

I doubt Don would want that burden once he learns how it can be. We saw this with Raph and how he learned exactly how much pressure it is to be the leader. I'm not saying he would be a horrible leader, but I don't think he'd really want it. He's content just doing his own thing.

And, no, I don't want all of the Turtles to crush on April because that would just be horrible.
When you take into account that Donnie has dealt with keeping April safe personally on multiple occassions, promising to save her dad, failing to keep his responsibility to keep Timothy safe and resulted his humanity lost, his creation nearly killing his brothers (Metalhead); one could make the case that Donnie in the show has dealt with more burdens than Leo so far.

[Gwydion]

I may be the only one who may disagree. Despite Donnie's brillaint mind, he wouldn't make a good leader (as of now). He's easily irritable, has a compulsive need to over-explain things, and at times can be too focused to notice things around him. He likes to overplan, which leaves him vulnerable if things go wrong. He doesn't possess Leo's strategic mind or his ability to improv when plans sour (and the ability to keep cool and focused while doing so). In time, he can be leadership material, but as of now, his speciality is science, not battle tactics.
I actually agree with all of this, in this series, anyway. I think as he matures he could become a good 2nd in command as he tends to be in other versions, but right now in the Nick series, he hasn't reached that point yet. I actually like it that way, though, as it gives him a lot of room to grow, and I look forward to seeing that possibly happen down the line.

And as for the idea of all the Turtles having a crush on April... I don't think it's possible for me to say "Thank you GOD!" that it didn't happen loud enough.

[Shark_Blade]

Not many are natural leaders but with exposure and experience, Don can be an excellent one in no time. Definitely.

[Jester]

I doubt Don would want that burden once he learns how it can be. We saw this with Raph and how he learned exactly how much pressure it is to be the leader. I'm not saying he would be a horrible leader, but I don't think he'd really want it. He's content just doing his own thing.
Could see that as an awesome season 2 episode.

[Shark_Blade]

Lets say if Leo went dark. Who would be next in line on command? My vote is Don.

[Bossa Nova]

Lets say if Leo went dark. Who would be next in line on command? My vote is Don.

I vote Raph. They ALL need to learn how to step it up and take leadership in some way or another, but of the four, Don always seems like the type who likes the 'idea' of leadership, but when it comes right down to it, wouldn't want the actual realities of it. Don is excellent as a leader for one turtle and one turtle only, himself. If he alone is stuck in a sticky situation, he can more than likely get himself out of it. But when it comes to taking control of his three brother's lives, I do think ultimately the pressure is too much for him. Raph on the other hand lives to put his brothers before himself (not to say Don is more selfish than Raph, he's just always done his own thing which translates to not really being entirely aware as to how his bros function as a team), and I think with some proper training he would have the better know how in commanding them.

Unfortunately, Raph never seems to get this training and thus allows his emotions to rule, which is why I think Don is always forced to step in for him to pick up the slack, even if he would rather not to. They make a good leadership team to say the least.

[Eiko]

Dont think Don would be cut out as leader to busy tinkering with his gadgets plus would also be busy trying to fig out all the mechanical stuff when they are on missions to make any clear decisions.

[Shark_Blade]

I vote Raph. They ALL need to learn how to step it up and take leadership in some way or another, but of the four, Don always seems like the type who likes the 'idea' of leadership, but when it comes right down to it, wouldn't want the actual realities of it. Don is excellent as a leader for one turtle and one turtle only, himself. If he alone is stuck in a sticky situation, he can more than likely get himself out of it. But when it comes to taking control of his three brother's lives, I do think ultimately the pressure is too much for him. Raph on the other hand lives to put his brothers before himself (not to say Don is more selfish than Raph, he's just always done his own thing which translates to not really being entirely aware as to how his bros function as a team), and I think with some proper training he would have the better know how in commanding them.

Unfortunately, Raph never seems to get this training and thus allows his emotions to rule, which is why I think Don is always forced to step in for him to pick up the slack, even if he would rather not to. They make a good leadership team to say the least.
As Raph is (seemingly) the second oldest, I think it's fair for him to take the leadership helm too. But the way he handled it when facing Snakeweed (in Leo's absence) prooved disastrous. He panicked and left the team immobilized. I feel if given the chance, perhaps Don could do better - he seemed to be cool headed and in control, which is essential in any leadership.

[victory_angel]

I think initially Donnie wanted to be leader because as the smartest member of the team and is able to think his way out of situations. But much like Raph when faced with overloading pressure he is more likely to get an anxiety attack then actually figure a way out of their situation.

Raph wanted to be leader because he saw leadership as getting his way all the time. While over the months of watching Leonardo lead by example Donnie has been gradually beginning to grasp that there are more to carry with leadership, then just having people follow your orders.

Because of this Donnie has helped Leo carry the mantle of leadership by questioning the accuracy or safety of a plan, making sure a plan is carried out. And if needed temporarily slips into a leadership role to ensure the safety of the team and prevent un-needed sacrifices.

Leo has of sorts come to recognize and value Donnie's skills as a tactician which is why they are shown having a strategy meeting in the finally. And it also begins to show that 2012 Donatello is fill a second in command role.

[Newtralizer]

Aren't they all 15 in the Nick cartoon?

Doesn't mean one can't be older than another. They could all be separated by 3 months.

[Gin Rummy]

It would be interesting, but I still think Leo is the perfect leader. He's clearly the most well rounded of the Bros. having a even amount of brains & brawn.

Don may be smart, but He is clearly the least psychically talented of his bros.

[Zachatello00]

Doesn't mean one can't be older than another. They could all be separated by 3 months.

The only thing I remember about this, is in that interactive Comic thing that was on the TMNT website before the show started airing, in which Splinter introduced Leo as the oldest, Raph as his "second son", and Don as his "third". Mike being the youngest.

But the first episode starts off with their celebrating their "mutation" day, so I don't think that they're age is as important to them as the day they mutated.

[Trivia]

But Splinter did choose randomly who was to be the leader randomly.
Leo asked first, but I think Splinter saw potential in all of them. (Except Mikey?)

I don't think Don would be fit as leader though.
But he is clearly willing to take action when it is needed.

[pingclang]

I just don't see Donnie stepping up to the leader position, in this series anyway. He's smart and I'm sure he can be tactical, but leading? No. I think if push really came to shove Raph would step up but if Leo is there, no one else should lead. His whole personality is based around his ability to lead and no one is as fit for the job.

[Gwydion]

Yeah, I've gotta say that in this series, I think Raph would be the 2nd in command at the moment. Sure he wasn't too good at it in New Girl in Town, but think about the circumstances. Raph hadn't given any thought to what being in a leadership role meant because he was too focused on proving that he was capable - he was viewing it as a competition: "Leo can do it, so I want to do it better". I think that if for whatever reason Leo was unable to lead now, Raph would be able to step up and take charge - even if he "hates" it - thanks in part to that experience.

At this point in time Raph just seems to have more leadership qualities than Donnie. Donnie gets frazzled easily, over thinks things, and gets distracted frequently, but he has shown that he does possess leadership qualities as well (like at the end of Pulverizer Returns). So yeah, in my mind right now, I could more easily see Raph stepping in as leader if he had to, but I could see a more mature Donnie doing that in the future as well.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Also I was wondering why Donatello has the crush on April by himself? Would it have been more fun if all the brothers had a crush on April?:tsmile:
I think it's a little wrong to even have 1 romance between animal and human running in the show.
Didn't they do an episode in the OT where they were all competing for April's affection?
I think this would be problematic in the long run... not the "playful banter" you may imagine with 4 bothers competing for the affection of the same girl.

maybe..but he gets pushed around alot in this series XD....

I remember when Raph was the leader and he made Donnie work faster by threatening to punch him XDD

and he is great with the bo....but he's arguably the weakest turtle (physically)

he's the smartest though~ :)

I think Don would be the most obvious in the Nick series... and even in IDW.
Raph is too compulsive and Don is too.... brainy. Raph is typically the one the runs in without a plan. I think Don can stratigize but he can OVER stratigize too... like his flow chart to ask out April.

And I wouldn't say he's the weakest. Raph is the strongest for sure. Don may not work out like Raph does, 'cus he tinkers with SCIENCE!!
But to use the staff, you need a certain amount of force to crack the staff. If we follow how he SHOULD be using his weapon, he should be up there.
This portrayal of Mikey is probably the weakest. I think in 2003 they built him to be the strongest Turtle, which was an interesting turn.

I doubt Don would want that burden once he learns how it can be. We saw this with Raph and how he learned exactly how much pressure it is to be the leader. I'm not saying he would be a horrible leader, but I don't think he'd really want it. He's content just doing his own thing.

Don and Mike are generally the ones comfortable with not leading. Raph is always combating Leo except in the OT.
IDW Don is cocky, which is very interesting trait we didn't see before. But I dont think IDW Don is one looking to lead either.

Not many are natural leaders but with exposure and experience, Don can be an excellent one in no time. Definitely.
I was going to point this out as well...
IF Don was chosen to be leader or became Leo's second, he could learn to be leader. We are shown that Leo watches that Star Trek-type cartoon and models himself off the heroic leader in the show. Outside of that, Leo is and always will be the leader with the best personality to lead his brothers.

But Splinter did choose randomly who was to be the leader randomly.
Leo asked first, but I think Splinter saw potential in all of them. (Except Mikey?)


Because "That would be wrong" if I remember correctly.
I do believe in the Nick incarnation that Mikey is not at all fit to lead. Atleast in previous shows he MIGHT have maybe been able to do something but he's usually to laid back to lead.

[BabyTurtles]

.


And I wouldn't say he's the weakest. Raph is the strongest for sure. Don may not work out like Raph does, 'cus he tinkers with SCIENCE!!
But to use the staff, you need a certain amount of force to crack the staff. If we follow how he SHOULD be using his weapon, he should be up there.
This portrayal of Mikey is probably the weakest. I think in 2003 they built him to be the strongest Turtle, which was an interesting turn.



do you mean weakest as in the weakest on the team? or the weakest Mikey??

cause either way I don't agree :D

Mikey's biggest flaw is that he doesn't focus enough.....he's too dependent on his brothers and he's fine with that. (that's why he doesn't care about being the leader)

but Mikey also has the most potential to be an awesome ninja. he learned Bradford's kata and used it against him, he totally pulled one over on Shredder with his kusarigama, and he dodged Splinter's attacks without even looking XD and he's creative (using pizza and bees to help defeat Baxter )

Donnie is definitely smarter but I think Mikey would beat Don in a fight. (if it was just hand to hand)
(but this is my opinion ^_^)

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

He did anyway ;)
Don over thought his moves and Mikey evaded and, I think, knocked him back.

And ya, you need a certain amount of force for the 'chucks too... those things are NASTY if you're the one being hit.

But, as I said, Mikey is laid back and in the Nick version he acts younger or more childish. He is artistically/abstract creative while Don is creative in facts and things that work and are applicable.
But I'm in no way dissing one Turtle over another, just in terms of "who would be a good leader if Leo were gone".

[BabyTurtles]

He did anyway ;)
Don over thought his moves and Mikey evaded and, I think, knocked him back.

And ya, you need a certain amount of force for the 'chucks too... those things are NASTY if you're the one being hit.

But, as I said, Mikey is laid back and in the Nick version he acts younger or more childish. He is artistically/abstract creative while Don is creative in facts and things that work and are applicable.
But I'm in no way dissing one Turtle over another, just in terms of "who would be a good leader if Leo were gone".

I LOVE Mikey....and even I know he would never be leader XD.....(unless he's forced too)

he's too childish and carefree.

between Raph and Don....I want to say Raph....slightly because I feel Donnie seems too special....(he can make anything, he's smart, he can be a quick thinker, and of course he's a ninja)

I feel if anyone should take Leo's place Raph should be given the second chance.

[Rooish]

I can't see either Don or Mike willingly following Raph. He could probably bully them to. Raph hasn't really earned their respect to lead.

[BabyTurtles]

I can't see either Don or Mike willingly following Raph. He could probably bully them to. Raph hasn't really earned their respect to lead.

if we are going by respect...I'm pretty sure only Leo has their respect XD

Raph doesn't respect Donnie
Donnie doesn't respect Raph
Mikey doesn't respect either of them
and no one respects Mikey XD

[Gwydion]

if we are going by respect...I'm pretty sure only Leo has their respect XD

Raph doesn't respect Donnie
Donnie doesn't respect Raph
Mikey doesn't respect either of them
and no one respects Mikey XD

LOL Yup, that sounds about right. XD

I would like to point out, though, that my younger brother never respected me as a kid, but he would still occasionally follow my lead simply because I was older. Having someone's respect would certainly help in a leader/follower situation (which is one reason why Leo is the best choice), but it's not always required.

[Davetello]

I'm not sure Donnie's strong or assertive enough to be leader. He's way too gentle and a born pacifist. In 2k12 he seems to see the good in many people and would probably be wilfully naive - he'd go against his better judgement. Leonardo has morals but he's no pushover and generally will not tolerate serious attempts to belittle his authority. On the other hand, Raph would probably bully Donnie into submission in terms of altering decisions. Raph's aggression could intimidate Donatello to the point where we'd be back to where we are now with Raph and Leo clashing often.

Donnie is second-in-command in FW but that Donnie seemed more secure and sure of himself. This iteration is still developing - he's the genius we know and love but he's still very childlike in his emotions. He has an innate desire to form attachments to others (e.g. crush on April, he's fairly emotional in that sense). He needs contact and I feel he would be easily manipulated as leader. Overall I just feel he isn't confident or bold enough, at this moment.

[Timmetry]

I always felt Donnie was second in command. In the shellraiser, he's pretty much the leader. With that said, I don't think he'd make a good leader at this time.

I'm perfectly fine with Donnie's crush on April (although it's a bit over the top at times), but I wouldn't want all of them to have a crush on her.

Kinda off topic, I think it would have been more dramatic if Leo sacrificed one of his brothers (that's where I thought it was going with Splinter's comment to Leo). I imagine a scene where one of the others are in Leo's spot instead and while the other two try to save him, Leo orders their retreat. It could have set up a possible dark Leo storyline as well as increasing tension between him and (most likely) Raph. Then the others could try their own hand as leader.

[Davetello]

Kinda off topic, I think it would have been more dramatic if Leo sacrificed one of his brothers (that's where I thought it was going with Splinter's comment to Leo). I imagine a scene where one of the others are in Leo's spot instead and while the other two try to save him, Leo orders their retreat. It could have set up a possible dark Leo storyline as well as increasing tension between him and (most likely) Raph. Then the others could try their own hand as leader.

It will obviously never happen on a kid-friendly show such as this, but can you imagine if we got a more 'mature' show and one of the brothers was actually killed off? Yes, the show would not seem 'whole', but the possibilites for ramifications, storylines and character development could be endless. I'm not talking SAINW style, but an aftermath which lasts full seasons. It's obviously been touched in SAINW and in the comics, but it's never been explored to that level before. We've seen temporary and fleeting loss before (one example is when Leo went to train under the Ancient One in 2k3 then returned home to find his family missing) but never anything permanent or long-lasting in terms of on the screen.

I'm committing some cardinal sins here as I also suggested earlier that killing Splinter in 2k3 may have been a good idea. I just feel sometimes that the envelope could be pushed. After all, we've seen the protaganist(s) die in other franchises before so why not in the turtles? They would plumb the depths of grief and despair and it would be interesting (and heartbreaking) to see how the surviving brothers would cope.

Before someone abuses me for saying this, I'm simply trying to be open-minded and consider all possibilities and uncomfortable territory.

[Timmetry]

I would hate to see them kill off one of the turtles, mostly because I love them all that I couldn't chose one for them to kill off. I have thought about it before and I think if Mikey was killed, the entire team would fall apart, go their separate ways, and be generally more solemn. If Leo died, I think Raph or Don would step up and everyone would generally carry on as usual. That would probably be my choice, but then Raph/Don as leader would lose their personality for the most part.

I think killing Splinter would have been 100 times better than Flash Forward. I actually really liked the storyline in Mirage when Splinter was killed off. Obviously I wouldn't want it to happen next season, but it would be phenomenal if Nick did this down the line. As you said, though, won't happen on such a kid friendly show.

[Davetello]

I would hate to see them kill off one of the turtles, mostly because I love them all that I couldn't chose one for them to kill off. I have thought about it before and I think if Mikey was killed, the entire team would fall apart, go their separate ways, and be generally more solemn. If Leo died, I think Raph or Don would step up and everyone would generally carry on as usual. That would probably be my choice, but then Raph/Don as leader would lose their personality for the most part.

I think killing Splinter would have been 100 times better than Flash Forward. I actually really liked the storyline in Mirage when Splinter was killed off. Obviously I wouldn't want it to happen next season, but it would be phenomenal if Nick did this down the line. As you said, though, won't happen on such a kid friendly show.


I see what you're saying, but it would be a case of art imitating life i.e. we all face the loss of loved ones - it's inevitable, inescapable, undeniable. To see the boys go through the same thing would ironically make them more human and even more relatable. They'd be experiencing what we have all felt or will feel - that torment over losing someone we care about. That grief and 'finality' offers so many ways to develop the personalities of the three remaining turtles, as well as the supporting characters. We could even see flashbacks to moments each turtle shared with the deceased brother, and it would all seem more visceral and haunting.

I'm one of these guys who likes to see how far things can be taken. I respect people who are willing to do things which others may frown upon. I won't deny that the dark, tormenting side of the turtles very much appeals to me. The cartoons so far have been terrific, I couldn't ask for more from them. However, to see a high-budget live-action show with zero restraints on violence would liberate the writers to really tell some controversial stories.

Like I say, it will never happen, because the turtles are primarily aimed at kids - we all know that by now. But hypothetically it would be awesome.

As for Splinter being killed off in v4, we spoke about it the other day - it really wasn't fully explored enough or developed in the aftermath for me. It was a opportunity missed.

In 2k3, I'd have liked to have seen Splinter murdered by Shredder in "Exodus". Leo's rage in the first half of season 4 would then have been amplified ten-fold, and the other turtles would change as well - Mikey would experience the ultimate loss of his innocence, Donnie would become less gentle, and Raph...well I think we all know what would happen to him. Ch'rell would have been banished (let's assume that he kills Splinter seconds before they are transmatted off the ship so the boys cannot react) but he could have reappeared halfway through the season. The first half of the season could have been centred around their loss with the boys losing control in side stores which were just a backdrop to what is to come and a support to their character development. The guys would have been bottling up their anger and the final 13 episodes could have dealt with their cold-blooded and calculated revenge. They could have even stretched it another 13 ep season in place of Ninja Tribunal and the series could have ended with Ch'rell and Karai's deaths. The final scene of the series could be a flash forward 30 years showing us that the guys never recovered from the brutal way Splinter died and they drifted apart. Ironically, the turtles universes would have come full circle - in Mirage issue 1 sensei wants them to take revenge on Shredder for killing Yoshi (although we know Shredder is reanimated with the worms later), and this culmination of 4kids would have centred on their revenge on Shredder for killing Splinter.

I'm really just brainstorming here. Obviously this was never going to happen but it's fun to think about.

[BabyTurtles]

I just can't even imagine one of the boys getting killed off
.......nope I would rage.....:cry:

it just wouldn't be the same....and once the loss wears off, the turtles just wouldn't have the same dynamic.

....T^T.......

[Cure]

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.

Donnie-Brains AND leader
Mikey-Funny one
Raph-Tough one
Leo-Space Heroes fan

And no, Donnie crushing on April is already too much.

[Davetello]

I just can't even imagine one of the boys getting killed off
.......nope I would rage.....:cry:

it just wouldn't be the same....and once the loss wears off, the turtles just wouldn't have the same dynamic.

....T^T.......

Hi BabyTurtles. It's nice to finally make your acquaintance - I've enjoyed reading your posts as a lurker.

The issue of the dynamic being destroyed, and that which makes the turtles 'whole' is something which I had considered. However, we're talking about talented people here (writers, actors etc) - they'd find a way to make it work.

A big part of it would be that the loss would linger for a long time - bear in mind that the turtles would never have experienced loss before really, and certainly not the devastating loss of one of their beloved brothers.

It really would be interesting to see how far this could go. It's all very well saying 'I wouldn't like to see it happen' etc, but imagine it's a world where business and money is irrelevant (after all this is all hypothetical). Wouldn't it be great just to see what it would be like? If seeing one of our beloved turtles dying was far more horrible than we had anticipated, we would still have all of the other universes - they're not going anywhere. And after Next Mutation I think we can survive anything.

I'd just love to see it all transpire - bring this franchise into a world where there is no happy ending.

EDIT: and we haven't even mentioned about how it would completely destroy Splinter. He's already lost Yoshi, Tang Shen, and everyone else he ever cared about. The turtles were his last chance at a family; his salvation. The loss of one would not only devastate him in terms of the individual turtle's death, but it would bring to the fore just how vulnerable the family is - if one of them can die, they all can.

A big part of the show would be if the wise old sage could overcome the pain of losing one of his sons. That would be an incredible challenge even for sensei.

[BabyTurtles]

Hi BabyTurtles. It's nice to finally make your acquaintance - I've enjoyed reading your posts as a lurker.

The issue of the dynamic being destroyed, and that which makes the turtles 'whole' is something which I had considered. However, we're talking about talented people here (writers, actors etc) - they'd find a way to make it work.

A big part of it would be that the loss would linger for a long time - bear in mind that the turtles would never have experienced loss before really, and certainly not the devastating loss of one of their beloved brothers.

It really would be interesting to see how far this could go. It's all very well saying 'I wouldn't like to see it happen' etc, but imagine it's a world where business and money is irrelevant (after all this is all hypothetical). Wouldn't it be great just to see what it would be like? If seeing one of our beloved turtles dying was far more horrible than we had anticipated, we would still have all of the other universes - they're not going anywhere. And after Next Mutation I think we can survive anything.

I'd just love to see it all transpire - bring this franchise into a world where there is no happy ending.

EDIT: and we haven't even mentioned about how it would completely destroy Splinter. He's already lost Yoshi, Tang Shen, and everyone else he ever cared about. The turtles were his last chance at a family; his salvation. The loss of one would not only devastate him in terms of the individual turtle's death, but it would bring to the fore just how vulnerable the family is - if one of them can die, they all can.

A big part of the show would be if the wise old sage could overcome the pain of losing one of his sons. That would be an incredible challenge even for sensei.

you're killing me inside
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qiwep4RC1rrsimzo1_500.gif

I guess it would be interesting though.....has it happened in a TMNT comic yet? (cause I need to see if I can even handle it!)

still not sure if I'd want that to happen in the Nick show.....maybe if they make another version and it's completely dark! then I guess I'd be okay...
(if that ever happens XD)

also nice to meet you too!! you liked my posts as a lurker? XD (I have good posts!!)

[Davetello]

you're killing me inside
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qiwep4RC1rrsimzo1_500.gif

I guess it would be interesting though.....has it happened in a TMNT comic yet? (cause I need to see if I can even handle it!)

still not sure if I'd want that to happen in the Nick show.....maybe if they make another version and it's completely dark! then I guess I'd be okay...
(if that ever happens XD)

also nice to meet you too!! you liked my posts as a lurker? XD (I have good posts!!)

Ha, I'm sorry :cry: There's a really masochistic part of me however which feels the pain of the characters as they do. I'm quite an empathic person and I really relate to what they're going through, ya know? I feel it like they do and in a way that's the best feeling for me because it feels so real and so strong, it's really like being alive. In a sense I can be upset and heartbroken through suspending my disbelief, but a few hours later that pain will dissipate as essentially I know that this is fiction and it's not real. It's sort of like being able to feel things very strongly and to feel vulnerable without the consequences and pain of real life. Does that make any sense? I mean I was nearly crying in the cinema when I was wondering if Bruce really had died as Rises was ending. I had such a lump in my throat it was untrue. And at that moment I felt a very strong connection. I think it's a coping mechanism because it reminds me to be compassionate and caring but with none of the actual responsibilites which real life always brings in this respect. I'm verging on the philosophical here but I hope you understand what I mean.

That's the best type of art - the art that draws you in and gives you as strong a sense as possible of what the characters are feeling. And art which really affects us and plays strongly on our emotions (particularly our sorrowful emotions) is the ultimate form of expression, in my view. It's relatively easy to make someone laugh through film, or to scare them. But to make them feel such a connection to the characters that they suspend their disbelief to such a point that they feel like these turtles are their own family? Well, that would be an accomplishment in my eyes.

We've had SAINW in 2k3 and the hinting of Donnie being the only remaining turtle in the comics (the machine). However, unless I've forgotten something we've never seen a turtle die and actually dealt with a long aftermath and character study of the surviving turtles afterwards. It's something I really want to see but, as I say, it's a pipedream. Well, unless I win the Euro lottery and can afford to buy the property. Lol. As I say, I wouldn't even want it to happen in Nick - the show is too light for that and it would be a mess. It could have worked in 2k3 (Splinter as I suggested) but where it would really work is in an animated or live-action show on the same sort of rating as Spawn TAS.

Yes, I read your posts and most other people's. I know who most of the regular posters are. I've been reading the forums on and off for years but I was postponing actually posting on forums for a while as I had other commitments. Now I have more free time and well...here I am.

[BabyTurtles]

Ha, I'm sorry :cry: There's a really masochistic part of me however which feels the pain of the characters as they do. I'm quite an empathic person and I really relate to what they're going through, ya know? I feel it like they do and in a way that's the best feeling for me because it feels so real and so strong, it's really like being alive. In a sense I can be upset and heartbroken through suspending my disbelief, but a few hours later that pain will dissipate as essentially I know that this is fiction and it's not real. It's sort of like being able to feel things very strongly and to feel vulnerable without the consequences and pain of real life. Does that make any sense? I mean I was nearly crying in the cinema when I was wondering if Bruce really had died as Rises was ending. I had such a lump in my throat it was untrue. And at that moment I felt a very strong connection. I think it's a coping mechanism because it reminds me to be compassionate and caring but with none of the actual responsibilites which real life always brings in this respect. I'm verging on the philosophical here but I hope you understand what I mean.

That's the best type of art - the art that draws you in and gives you as strong a sense as possible of what the characters are feeling. And art which really affects us and plays strongly on our emotions (particularly our sorrowful emotions) is the ultimate form of expression, in my view. It's relatively easy to make someone laugh through film, or to scare them. But to make them feel such a connection to the characters that they suspend their disbelief to such a point that they feel like these turtles are their own family? Well, that would be an accomplishment in my eyes.

We've had SAINW in 2k3 and the hinting of Donnie being the only remaining turtle in the comics (the machine). However, unless I've forgotten something we've never seen a turtle die and actually dealt with a long aftermath and character study of the surviving turtles afterwards. It's something I really want to see but, as I say, it's a pipedream. Well, unless I win the Euro lottery and can afford to buy the property. Lol. As I say, I wouldn't even want it to happen in Nick - the show is too light for that and it would be a mess. It could have worked in 2k3 (Splinter as I suggested) but where it would really work is in an animated or live-action show on the same sort of rating as Spawn TAS.

Yes, I read your posts and most other people's. I know who most of the regular posters are. I've been reading the forums on and off for years but I was postponing actually posting on forums for a while as I had other commitments. Now I have more free time and well...here I am.

okay I'm putting your quote in a spoiler tag XD (just in case people get mad)

actually I wouldn't have minded if they tried killing off a turtle in 2k3. The show was already a darker version of TMNT.......I think I would have been okay with it...(as long as it wasn't Mikey....even if he would be a good candidate T^T)

Splinter would have worked, that would have been interesting.
(I think I would have preferred that to fast forward XD.....) not that I hated fast forward....it just wasn't my favorite season...

also I get all emotional over characters too XD don't know if you watched Legend of Korra.....but I cried when Korra kissed Mako in front of Bolin XD...(but then I kinda laughed cause he looked funny.......I cried laughed)

yay~ glad you're finally joining the Technodrome~ *_*

[Davetello]

okay I'm putting you quote in a spoiler XD (just in case people get mad)

actually I wouldn't have minded if they tried killing off a turtle in 2k3. The show was already a darker version of TMNT.......I think I would have been okay with it...(as long as it wasn't Mikey....even if he would be a good candidate T^T)

Splinter would have worked, that would have been interesting.
(I think I would have preferred that to fast forward XD.....) not that I hated fast forward....it just wasn't my favorite season...

also I get all emotional over characters too XD don't know if you watched Legend of Korra.....but I cried when Korra kissed Mako in front of Bolin XD...(but then I kinda laughed cause he looked funny.......I cried laughed)

yay~ glad you're finally joining the Technodrome~ *_*

Yes, apologies for anything which should be spoilered. I'm not sure what the exact protocol is as it's a bit of a grey area. In a sense everything we discuss about the turtles could be put in a spoiler lol. I'd hate to ruin anyone's enjoyment tbh.

That's why I felt 2k3 would have been acceptable for it. We all know it's by far the most 'mature' of the three series' and it adapts parts of the Mirage run. It could definitely have worked in there. I'd have preferred to see Splinter die as I say above, but one of the boys could have worked too. I didn't particularly enjoy FF but I watched it because it was the Turtles. It's a bit like Dexter - I tend to watch 2k3 until the end of Ninja Tribunal then stop (other than Turtles Forever) in thee same way I stopped my second rewatch of Dexter after the end of season 4.

I haven't saw Avatar or Korra yet but I plan to one day. Interestingly, I decided last week to start getting into anime so I will be watching shows like Fullmetal Alchemist, Monster and Mirai Nikki soon. The only anime I have ever seen is Death Note, which was completely engrossing.

Anyway, we're going of topic a bit. Again, it's nice to meet you. You can call me David.

[BabyTurtles]

Yes, apologies for anything which should be spoilered. I'm not sure what the exact protocol is as it's a bit of a grey area. In a sense everything we discuss about the turtles could be put in a spoiler lol. I'd hate to ruin anyone's enjoyment tbh.

That's why I felt 2k3 would have been acceptable for it. We all know it's by far the most 'mature' of the three series' and it adapts parts of the Mirage run. It could definitely have worked in there. I'd have preferred to see Splinter die as I say above, but one of the boys could have worked too. I didn't particularly enjoy FF but I watched it because it was the Turtles. It's a bit like Dexter - I tend to watch 2k3 until the end of Ninja Tribunal then stop (other than Turtles Forever) in thee same way I stopped my second rewatch of Dexter after the end of season 4.

I haven't saw Avatar or Korra yet but I plan to one day. Interestingly, I decided last week to start getting into anime so I will be watching shows like Fullmetal Alchemist, Monster and Mirai Nikki soon. The only anime I have ever seen is Death Note, which was completely engrossing.

Anyway, we're going of topic a bit. Again, it's nice to meet you. You can call me David.

the spoiler tag also helps to contain long quotes :3 not just for spoiling stuff XD

and sorry!!! I should have put that Legend of Korra spoiler..... in a spoiler tag...........sorry.......

yea...I could have done without fast foward (turtles in the future just didn't seem right...and I missed April and Casey) but I watched it and I'd be lying if I didn't enjoy some episodes XD

[Davetello]

the spoiler tag also helps to contain long quotes :3 not just for spoiling stuff XD

and sorry!!! I should have put that Legend of Korra spoiler..... in a spoiler tag...........sorry.......

yea...I could have done without fast foward (turtles in the future just didn't seem right...and I missed April and Casey) but I watched it and I'd be lying if I didn't enjoy some episodes XD

Ahh yes, fair point. And don't worry about the Korra stuff - it's fine. Avatar isn't on my imminent list anyway so by the time I get round to Korra I will have forgotten I expect lol.

Yep, Baxter and Bishop's redemption, the Journal and some of the stuff with Sh'okanobo was good stuff.

I'm going offline. It's almost 7am here in the UK and I have to shower and do some chores. I'm playin football (sorry, 'soccer' lol) later today, so can' stay online all day.

Talk soon BabyTurtles. :)

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

I feel if anyone should take Leo's place Raph should be given the second chance.

Well according to Partners in Kryme, Raph is the leader ;P

[Powder]

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.


I wouldn't mind if they were to make him into a geek of sorts. Like, a traditional otaku in some sense. The one obsessed with Japanese arts & philosophy (not so much anime & the like). Maybe he reads manga, does calligraphy/painting, watches samurai flicks, etc. Gives him something to nerd out over and aspire to.

[BubblyShell22]

Hey, Dave, I get where you're coming from with the death of a Turtle, but I'd like to see it in an alternate universe type of thing if they were to do it in the Nick series. Maybe be where the Turtle really isn't dead but they see what could come of it if one of them or Splinter dies.

[Raphaeline]

I don't see Donnie as a leader, he's too shy, and doesn't have enough temper to lead the others. Raph wouldn't follow!


I think that we should give Raph a second chance, if there was a more mature version of the turtles. Maybe he can learn to listen to the other's advice, and control himself better. I'm sure he could make a good leader, if he had more experience and more selfcontrol.

[Cure]

I wouldn't mind if they were to make him into a geek of sorts. Like, a traditional otaku in some sense. The one obsessed with Japanese arts & philosophy (not so much anime & the like). Maybe he reads manga, does calligraphy/painting, watches samurai flicks, etc. Gives him something to nerd out over and aspire to.

I guess, but that's not really a classic archetype. What makes the turtles so great is that most people can relate with either the brains, brawn, funny one, or leader. I'm not sure how people will say "I'M THE (traditional) OTAKU".

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Re watching the first disc, Don does show leadership traits.
On the same note, he did pull a Raph and rush in (to save April who he just spotted from rooftop).

The other thing to consider is that, personality-wise, the Turtle have always been about the same. Leo has always been the most obvious leader, Mikey the least likely, and Don and Raph are always more or less on the fence.

But in the IDW series, Leo has gone "dark" and there will be a new leader there. I been avoiding the forums for now because I'm still behind in my reading but that'll be interesting since the story is a little darker and the Turtles arn't as.... "playful" as they are in the Nick show.


I think that we should give Raph a second chance, if there was a more mature version of the turtles. Maybe he can learn to listen to the other's advice, and control himself better. I'm sure he could make a good leader, if he had more experience and more selfcontrol.

And that's another point. Leo is mature enough at, what? 15? to lead the group (and that's saying something because he has shown immaturity a few times). Maybe Raph would be a good leader when he's older but he's not ready.
But traditionally Raph has never been the one to maintain control. He's always the hot headed one, even if he does calm down for an episode (or the end of the 2007 movie), he will still fall into his old ways. This is much like how real people behave because of lack of discipline or self control.
Just like making a New years Resolution. How often do people keep up to the end?

[Powder]

I guess, but that's not really a classic archetype. What makes the turtles so great is that most people can relate with either the brains, brawn, funny one, or leader. I'm not sure how people will say "I'M THE (traditional) OTAKU".

Well I wasn't thinking about it with broad appeal in mind, just a way to make Leo different but still somewhat Leo. I guess to simplify things, it'd be like Donnie is the nerd & Leo is the geek.

[BabyTurtles]

Well I wasn't thinking about it with broad appeal in mind, just a way to make Leo different but still somewhat Leo. I guess to simplify things, it'd be like Donnie is the nerd & Leo is the geek.

I still don't like the idea...Donnie being the nerd is enough for him because he can make anything and that helps the turtle out enough

Leo is mature, calm, a good strategist, and self sacrificing
that makes a good leader and that makes most of Leo's character.
in other words...Leo was made to be leader....

Donnie is smart, but he isn't a quick thinker like Leo is...in fact Donnie has panicked in a pickle a few times XD

like in Operation Breakout, he busted Mr.O'Neil out of prison....then got them locked in another cell XD....(but it happens lol)

and he also becomes a talking wiki page when he panics...XD

:3 he could be a good second in command...but not the leader

[Powder]

Again, I never said Leonardo needed to be changed. It was a what-if.

[Raphaeline]

But traditionally Raph has never been the one to maintain control. He's always the hot headed one, even if he does calm down for an episode (or the end of the 2007 movie), he will still fall into his old ways. This is much like how real people behave because of lack of discipline or self control.
Just like making a New years Resolution. How often do people keep up to the end?

I think it's unfair to think that he will always be immature. For now we could only see him at 15 years old, in all the series. I know some guys who were really different and immature as teenagers, but are now calm and mature.

Of course Raph will always have his hot temper, but he can learn to control it, with experience, this time. He won't act like a teenager forever.

[Davetello]

Hey, Dave, I get where you're coming from with the death of a Turtle, but I'd like to see it in an alternate universe type of thing if they were to do it in the Nick series. Maybe be where the Turtle really isn't dead but they see what could come of it if one of them or Splinter dies.

Hi Shell, nice to meet you finally.

Yep, I agree it would be better dealt with in an alternative universe - I only brought it up in this thread as the idea of Splinter dying was raised. I wouldn't like to see one of the turtles die in Nick as it's too light-hearted a show (and it will never happen anyway). But in an alternative universe it would most certainly be intriguing to see.

[Refractive Reflections]

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.

Donnie-Brains AND leader
Mikey-Funny one
Raph-Tough one
Leo-Space Heroes fan

And no, Donnie crushing on April is already too much.

I wouldn't mind if they were to make him into a geek of sorts. Like, a traditional otaku in some sense. The one obsessed with Japanese arts & philosophy (not so much anime & the like). Maybe he reads manga, does calligraphy/painting, watches samurai flicks, etc. Gives him something to nerd out over and aspire to.

Those are good points to bring up, it brings a "what if?" situation like you proposed earlier Powder. How would... and even could... Leo define himself if he wasn't the leader (at least for an episode :P)? It seems like Leonardo is an adventure geek. In the OT, there are hints of it in him reading adventure books (i.e. "The Four Musketurtles" and "Leonardo is Missing") and in Nick, with Leo's interest in Space Heroes.

I think for the viewers it would be completely awkward to see Leonardo not doing the whole leadership bit, but it would provide a significant amount of depth to his character since we, as fans, have been so conditioned to him always being it. This new situation would bring up a self-identity crisis for Leo, if somehow the plot of the episode stripped him away of his leadership duties and forced him to not use ninjitsu. We could finally discover his personality/interests fully, outside of ninjitsu and leadership, see how he is behind the noble exterior which at times seems a bit heavy for him to carry all the time, and possibly what fascinates him with "bad girls" (i.e. Karai). Plus it would be some remarkable storytelling if the Nick writers could pull it off convincingly.

[Shark_Blade]

If anything, Leo is the Awkward One (in a sadorable way). :P

They said we won't see Space Heroes anymore starting Season 2 onwards. So maybe we'll see another side of Leo. Maybe he'll take up knitting or pottery or something. Yes I'm joking, close your open jaws.

[BubblyShell22]

I know, and honestly, I'm sad about that because liking "Space Heroes" was what set Leo apart from other incarnations in that he had another trait. However, I just thought that maybe he could still read the comics since he does have them and could quote those, so "Space Heroes" wouldn't totally be gone from the show as well as Leo's liking for it. I just don't want him to turn into a bland character now that his favorite show isn't on anymore, but I don't think that will happen as I have faith in the Nick writers.

[Bauer536]

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.

Donnie-Brains AND leader
Mikey-Funny one
Raph-Tough one
Leo-Space Heroes fan

And no, Donnie crushing on April is already too much.

If Leonardo wasn't the leader, I think he'd still bring something to the dynamic. He is a Space Heroes fan. But do you know what else he is? A pretty darn cool ninja.:tcool: Even if he didn't have to lead, he would be resourceful in his katana skills against the enemy. In fact, it's possible that he could be second in command and become leader if Donnie is incapacitated. You can't just say that someone has nothing if they are not leader or brains or whatever. Everyone has a skill.

[The Stryker]

If Leonardo wasn't the leader, I think he'd still bring something to the dynamic. He is a Space Heroes fan. But do you know what else he is? A pretty darn cool ninja.:tcool: Even if he didn't have to lead, he would be resourceful in his katana skills against the enemy. In fact, it's possible that he could be second in command and become leader if Donnie is incapacitated. You can't just say that someone has nothing if they are not leader or brains or whatever. Everyone has a skill.

Know who else is a pretty cool ninja? Raphael, Michelangelo and Donatello.

Him being good at fighting isn't a unique skill when they all do it.

[Bauer536]

Know who else is a pretty cool ninja? Raphael, Michelangelo and Donatello.

Him being good at fighting isn't a unique skill when they all do it.

Alright. You have a point, but just assuming someone is useless just because they may not have a certain position is silly.

[The Stryker]

Alright. You have a point, but just assuming someone is useless just because they may not have a certain position is silly.

He was saying he'd be useless from a character perspective. His gimmick is that he's the leader. Take that away and there's not much to write a story on.

[Bauer536]

He was saying he'd be useless from a character perspective. His gimmick is that he's the leader. Take that away and there's not much to write a story on.

That's your opinion. But even if I were to write a story of him not as a leader, I would still have some ideas. Heck, if it was possible, maybe he could still use his skills for something extraordinary. Or, what if he can solve mysteries like a detective and be responsible for cracking down criminals that Donatello (if he was the leader) couldn't find. Honestly, stop thinking that someone is nothing just because their dynamic isn't interesting, or that they will not be interesting if they don't have that one dynamic.

Besides, enough of this. Just be happy they all have a role. You don't see me complaining about Mikey being only a jokester and not anything to help the team seriously. Don can lead, and he needs practice to get better. Any of them can lead. They need time. But just accept the fact that Leo was written to be leader for a reason. You don't appreciate it, I'm sorry. But, my god. I'm so tired of all these alternate universe or "What If" talks. Just enjoy the characters for who they are. You guys are never happy.

[Refractive Reflections]

Besides, enough of this. Just be happy they all have a role. You don't see me complaining about Mikey being only a jokester and not anything to help the team seriously. Don can lead, and he needs practice to get better. Any of them can lead. They need time. But just accept the fact that Leo was written to be leader for a reason. You don't appreciate it, I'm sorry. But, my god. I'm so tired of all these alternate universe or "What If" talks. Just enjoy the characters for who they are. You guys are never happy.

Well these "What if" discussions are not far-fetched, there are many people who are forced to abandon their passions and find another way to utilize their time, and discover and develop other interests. Many prominent examples are when high-achieving professional athletes are forced to leave the game they love by a career-ending injury, or people who are forced to go into disability retirement after an injury or toxic exposure from some tragic incident in the workplace.

Now nobody's suggesting that Leo becomes a permanent "secondary" leader, but you have to admit that it would be intriguing if the show explored Leo's personality/interests behind his high achieving and responsible character, and probably one of the most effective ways of doing so, would be if the show temporarily removed his leadership position and ninjitsu training.

[BubblyShell22]

I agree with JYX here. It's not that we're not happy with Leo as the leader, we're just saying that if positions were reversed we would wonder how it would go. I agree Leo is a good leader and was given that position, but it would be nice to explore what other qualities he has besides just being the leader. Or put him in a situation where he's not able to be leader and someone has to take over such as if he has an injury. That's all we're getting at here. We saw how Raph would handle it, and it didn't go well at all, but I'd like to see either Don or Mikey handle it just once to see if they could.

At the end of the day, Leo will always be leader. It's just nice to speculate what would happen if someone else had the role. Please try to calm down, Bauer.

[JTH]

At the beginning of the season, I would've said no. But from Pulverizer Returns on, Donatello's ability to be "able" to lead have shown.

I believe this incarnation of Donatello is most believable in ability to lead because while he does show his feelings around April, he has shown an edginess and determination to achieve that his other versions haven't.

[victory_angel]

Rob Paulsen has stated in an interview sometime ago that Donnie will have a co-leader role.
So far that hasn't come to pass as of yet, but that can still change.

Ciro has mentioned that they would have a moment where they followed the events of that point of the mirage comic book where Leo gets the ever loving snot beaten out of him by the foot.

My guess is that would lead to a moment where Leo may have a time where he has to step away from being a leader. And Donnie maybe takes over a leader of the team until Leo gets his head straight.

[Aaronardo]

All this talk about Raph becoming leader makes me wonder if there could be a later episode with Leo falling, Raph becoming leader, realizing the undeniable power of being in command, and turns to the Foot somehow...

I dunno, just a thought :P

[victory_angel]

All this talk about Raph becoming leader makes me wonder if there could be a later episode with Leo falling, Raph becoming leader, realizing the undeniable power of being in command, and turns to the Foot somehow...

I dunno, just a thought :P

Maybe a bit of both or may being enticed to join the foot. I can see Raph leading the group during more intense situations and Donnie during quieter situations.

But I remember during one of the convention panels they had this year that Donnie's potential as a leader will be explored.

[BubblyShell22]

I can't see Raph going to the Foot just because he's given the leadership role. If that were to happen, there would have to be some other story behind it.

[kelligrafie]

I can't see Raph going to the Foot just because he's given the leadership role. If that were to happen, there would have to be some other story behind it.

He'd need to be hypnotised or something.

Even if he had such a massive falling out with his brothers that he left the group, he'd never join the Foot to go AGAINST them. He'd go vigilante and operate alone.