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View Full Version : Ninja turtles being 'ninjas'


Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2013, 02:08 PM
After my last thread looking at some aspects of TMNT was slightly appreciated, I thought I'd toss my hat into looking at the TMNT as ninja. These are just some things that came to mind working on my latest paper for my history major/Asian studies minor, and is again not meant to offend or upset anyone in any way. Note that I touch on points I made in earlier threads on this board, but try to present my ideas here in a clear and conscise post. Again this is mere speculation and observation, and not meant to offend.

Since the Turtles are suposed to be a ninja clan, they should have thier own 'mon'- a circular symbol that identifies them as part of thier clan. This would suit them far better than the idea of using a color to signify thier clan. The concept of clan colors have nothing to do with Japanese culture and tradition. That notion comes from Europeean cultures such as the celts, which gave rise to such things as clan tartans. Japanese clans used mon, which could be of any color, to identify clan memebership. Colors were worn based on the seasons, special events like weddings, etc., and the mood the idvidual wearer was in. As to ninja, they wore whatever color was suited to thier mission at the time. So I was thinking... why not use the mon on Splinter's kmono from the OT as thier clan symbol? And why not put it in the spotwhere the hated name letters go, on thier belts? As for the headbands, if multicolored upsets some people (doesn't bother me) perhaps going for all black, incorporating the stealth aspect.

Second, why don't some of the Turtles look to both historical and fictional ninjas for insparation and admiration? There are many stories in Japanese folklore abounds of heroic ninja clans who have made it thier duty to guard temples and shrines that contain artifacts of power, and both history and folklore contain examples of ninjas who use thier shadow arts of deception and assasination to selflessly protect villages from groups of bandits and tryannical warlords, without the promise of reward. With his obession with the code of Bushido in some versions, perhaps Leo could try to emulate Hattori Hanzo, who was both ninja and samurai, and perhaps Raph or Donnie could admire Ishekawa Goemon, the historical ninja hero outlaw who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor, and tales about him grew to exaggerted proportions-kind of a Japanese robin hood. And modern Japanese fiction abounds with heroic ninja who protect the world from evil- from Sentai teams to animies such as Naruto. Maybe Mikey grew up admiring these ninjas? (Or at least the versions that made it to american television, lol)

Also, in regards to the Foot... you have a team of modern ninjas running around in versions of 16th century Kabuki outfits, and using only ancient weapons to fight *FACEPALM*. This is one case where 4kids got it more right than Mirage- Stealth tech, guns, explosives. Ancient ninja used whatever weapons were at thier disposal, they were the Sengoku and Edo era versions of modern commados. YES shredder would keep thier aresnal updated, and would see guns beside shuriken, gernades beside Katanas. And creatures like mutants and aliens and other bizarre oddities would most definetly be recuited- thay would be useful for certan missions and ninja would use any advantage they could get. perfect example of a mondern Ninja are Snake eyes and Storm Shadow- the Arasahikage clan being what a modern ninja would really be like. Throw is some modern bulletproof kevlar under those Kabuki pajamas. :lol:

Again, these are just the academics opinions, and not meant to offend anyone. Make of them what you will. :)

Donatello19
08-30-2013, 02:53 PM
....It's a kids franchise.

Powder
08-30-2013, 03:03 PM
Suddenly I understand this thread- http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=44326

:tlol:

BubblyShell22
08-30-2013, 03:15 PM
Well, Splinter does have mon on his kimono in the 2K12 series, and the shuriken the Turtles use also has this symbol as well as April's tessen.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2013, 03:38 PM
Guys, it may be a 'kids' franchise, but so is avatar:the last airbender, and it incorporates cultural and historical elements. Also, I think IDW comics is aimed at a bit older audience. :)

Ninjinister
08-30-2013, 03:46 PM
Again, it all goes back to Laird and Eastman (and they admitted to this many times) not knowing anything about Japanese culture and martial arts outside of movies.

Leo656
08-30-2013, 04:10 PM
I think I speak for many when I say it's probably because - odd as it may seem - the actual authentic "ninja-ness" of the TMNT isn't the biggest factor in its appeal. More than anything it's a sci-fi story with ninjas in it, and as you've noted most of it is pretty generic in regards to its authentic "ninja-tude". It was a thing back in the '80s; the "mystery of the Orient" and martial arts was really big for like 5 minutes. Tons of movies and cartoons had some connection to martial arts and very little of it was authentic because it didn't have to be. We didn't have the internet, so few people bothered to fact-check; as long as someone did a spin kick, they were "keeping it real"... real enough, anyway. Nobody felt like they were missing out; as long as there was action, we were satisfied.

Lots of those fans grew up with a genuine interest in martial arts, so in the last ten years or so we see a lot more people asking about that. But I can't say it ever bothered me as a kid or even now. It'd be neat, I guess, if it was a little more "authentic", but I've never missed it. I like TMNT for lots of other reasons before that one. It could be more authentic, but I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever as far as its popularity.

FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza
08-30-2013, 04:46 PM
It's something that came to my mind also...
The Turtles really are hardly NINJA.
But, again, Is them being true ninja why we watch this?

Maybe if we get a darker, more adult orientated story, we'll look at ways of making the title more authentic to the characters.


Lots of those fans grew up with a genuine interest in martial arts, so in the last ten years or so we see a lot more people asking about that. But I can't say it ever bothered me as a kid or even now. It'd be neat, I guess, if it was a little more "authentic", but I've never missed it. I like TMNT for lots of other reasons before that one. It could be more authentic, but I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever as far as its popularity.

Honestly it was the TMNT that made me want to learn martial arts.
Especially since I was one of those kids who were bullied in the lower grades at school. Even mom felt that learning self defense would be beneficial.




Since the Turtles are suposed to be a ninja clan, they should have thier own 'mon'- a circular symbol that identifies them as part of thier clan. This would suit them far better than the idea of using a color to signify thier clan. The concept of clan colors have nothing to do with Japanese culture and tradition. That notion comes from Europeean cultures such as the celts, which gave rise to such things as clan tartans. Japanese clans used mon, which could be of any color, to identify clan memebership. Colors were worn based on the seasons, special events like weddings, etc., and the mood the idvidual wearer was in. As to ninja, they wore whatever color was suited to thier mission at the time. So I was thinking... why not use the mon on Splinter's kmono from the OT as thier clan symbol? And why not put it in the spotwhere the hated name letters go, on thier belts? As for the headbands, if multicolored upsets some people (doesn't bother me) perhaps going for all black, incorporating the stealth aspect.


They used to all wear red.
And maybe the mon is the Turtle shell. EH?! EH?!! YA??!

Otherwise, I dont clearly remember a mon in the OT but there is one in the 2012 show.

pingclang
08-31-2013, 04:28 PM
I think you're reading into it too much. TMNT never has really focused on the real history of it all and honestly, this isn't the real world that we read/watch anyway, so the rules don't apply. Maybe I'm just a meathead but I personally don't need to know all the history/culture of it all to enjoy the Turtles being ninjas and fighting their way through NY, Outer Space, Dimension X or what have you. I guess it boils down to how much reality you need in your fiction, I don't look for it but if it's your thing, I understand why you would be concerned.

Cipher
08-31-2013, 04:33 PM
Also, in regards to the Foot... you have a team of modern ninjas running around in versions of 16th century Kabuki outfits, and using only ancient weapons to fight *FACEPALM*. This is one case where 4kids got it more right than Mirage- Stealth tech, guns, explosives. Ancient ninja used whatever weapons were at thier disposal, they were the Sengoku and Edo era versions of modern commados. YES shredder would keep thier aresnal updated, and would see guns beside shuriken, gernades beside Katanas. And creatures like mutants and aliens and other bizarre oddities would most definetly be recuited- thay would be useful for certan missions and ninja would use any advantage they could get. perfect example of a mondern Ninja are Snake eyes and Storm Shadow- the Arasahikage clan being what a modern ninja would really be like. Throw is some modern bulletproof kevlar under those Kabuki pajamas. :lol:
The Mirage foot actually did all this as well.

They remained primarily martial arts-based, but we still see plenty of gun-toting Foot ninjas throughout the series. They also have some sort of an advanced tech division ("City at War" robots) and whatever blend of mystical arts and science led to things like Shredder's worm clones. Not exactly real-world, but hardly Luddites.

Their base in "Return to New York" is also filled with all kinds of modern weaponry.

Interesting bit about the mon.

Tazi
08-31-2013, 04:43 PM
In City at War Donatello even kills one of the shredder-elite with an uzi like weapon.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-01-2013, 05:49 AM
The Turtlevan has cannons.

Whatswiththeheadbands?
09-01-2013, 08:23 AM
the turtles aren't really ninjas. ninjas were all assassins and basically ignored honor.

the turtles are more like samurais who sneak around, really.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Not ALL ninjas were assassins. Many were spies or saboteurs. And they basically started as samurais who were willing to get their hands dirty for their lords. They didn't all ignore honor either- they mostly just warped it a bit, or had a slightly different view of it.

Candy Kappa
09-01-2013, 11:16 PM
The issue is that they are "ninjas" and not actual historical Shinobi.

The basis of "ninja culture" does not come from the real life Feudal Japanese Espionage & Infiltration group, but from Marvel Comics Daredevil.

That's why they run around with Okinawan weapons and includes fake weapons like straight bladed ninja-to, and no actual Ninjutsu or Taijutsu that a Ninja would use. Being from the 80's any actual research might even come from Steven Hayes the man who brought "ninjutsu" to USA instead of actual Shinobi material.

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Not ALL ninjas were assassins. Many were spies or saboteurs. And they basically started as samurais who were willing to get their hands dirty for their lords. They didn't all ignore honor either- they mostly just warped it a bit, or had a slightly different view of it.

LOL, I'm well aware of that. :lol: In fact, I pointed out in an earlier thread I started on this ver board (Ninjas as heroes, I believe it was) but that only further illustrates my point; the TMNT aen't 'true' ninjas, they are hollywood/comic book ninjas, not that that's a bad thing. :)