disablities: social, learning ect.

[Jelly Bean]

Does anyone here have a disablity or know someone who has one? Do you have one? My sister, at the age of 26 was finally diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. Why did it take so long to find out she had this, well my parents simply did not believe in that kind of thing. My father has always viewed "autism" and "learning disablites" or emotional problems as just convient excuses to be lazy or have people cater to you. The thing is my older has always had problems I remember when we all pof us were kids my father telling us to do something and she would not react to him and then he would start yelling. She would even freak out (throw tantrums as my parents took it) over little things. Her teachers always wanted to put her on a specil education plan but my parents didn't want to take her out of the class room and felt she was just being lazy. And it really it has affected how she has developed as an adult. She really isn't as capable as other people her age and she ended up not finishing school. Now that she has documentation of her condiction she is getting some help.

My parents had the same feelings toward all my siblings and the thing is from middle school on I had series problems keeping up in class. My teachers susupected I had dyslexia but I was never tested. My parents always saw that as just an excuse for doing poorly in school. Actually it is one of the reasons I didn't finish high school and and got my GED instead. And that wasn't easy. I'm actually struggling a bit in college but I am planing on getting official testing.

Did anyone here ever grow up with autism or a learning disablity? How did it effect you growing up and how is it with you now as a grown up? Were the adults in your life supportive or were they non believers like my parents.

My father in particular thinks autism and other learning or mental disablites are just a bunch of liberal doctors trying to excuse bad behavior. His reasoning because no one had it years ago so why does everyone have a problem now.

[BubblyShell22]

I have a learning disability in math. I didn't find out about it until second grade. My parents were supportive of getting me help and even talked to my teacher. There was one specialist who refused to have me tested, and my teacher got mad at her and demanded that I get tested. I was in LD classes since then and even in high school, though my teacher there was an idiot. I had a lot of trouble in college and finally understood what my disability was and that was that I wasn't able to process things quicker than others. Luckily, I was able to have a tutor for my Statistics class, so I managed to graduate. That was the last class I needed and if I didn't pass it, I wasn't going to graduate. I hate math.

My BF has a learning disability in English, so I often helped him out when he needed it.

[CyberCubed]

Being bad in one particular subject doesn't mean you have a disability. I always hated math as a kid and it was my worst subject, but I got better at it around College.

Just like others who hate english/writing because they don't know how to properly write an essay...is that really a disability? I don't think so.

[Jester]

Just like others who hate english/writing because they don't know how to properly write an essay...is that really a disability? I don't think so.
With writing, dyslexia can come into play....

[Redeemer]

My sister, at the age of 26 was finally diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. Why did it take so long to find out she had this,

His reasoning because no one had it years ago so why does everyone have a problem now.

I actually study psychology and is my current major.
To anwer the first part is because why are just now coming up with diagnoses for these behavior patterens. The reason it took so long for diagnoses for you sister is becasue no one saw the symotowms, (Parents being biased of the topic didn't help) But also your sister has a high function form of Autism. It is really tricky to make a proper diagnoses on a high functioning person with autism.

The funny thing is with all these new diagnoses and sense learning disabilities can run in families your dad my be diagnosed as well :lol: Not making fun of, but it is ironic sense your dad views modern prognoses as crap.

[CyberCubed]

Was autism/aspergers really diagnosed often for kids in the 80's and 90's?

There were always kids in my classes that seemed, "slow" or a bit strange, but they were just viewed as, "dumb kids" rather than actually diagnosed with anything.

Nowadays those kids would have been put into seperate classes...I don't think people knew better. That's why you have 25 year old adults diagnosed with autism for the first time, when they were kids in the 80's and 90's people didn't know better.

[Redeemer]

Was autism/aspergers really diagnosed often for kids in the 80's and 90's?


I dont even know if aspergers was a recognized disorder yet in the 80's or 90s. Autism itself is relatively new.

I just checked, my assumption was right aspergers was not even recognized by the world health organiztion until 1994!!!!!! So that would explain why you did not see many kids from those generation diagnosed and why his sister took so long to be dianosed.

[Refractive Reflections]

My father in particular thinks autism and other learning or mental disablites are just a bunch of liberal doctors trying to excuse bad behavior. His reasoning because no one had it years ago so why does everyone have a problem now.

Well mental/learning disorders is a relatively new, and a FAR more complex field of medicine compared to physical ailments, in addition people in the past didn't have the technology or scientific information to properly test/diagnose others, so that's why your father hasn't heard about it. And as Redeemer has pointed out, medical committees have to formulate a "criteria list" after obtaining a deluge amount of statistical data, to see what would "qualify" for a mental/learning disorder.

Though I can understand your father's skepticism since I find it suspicious that there is an abundance of parents who want their children to have ADD/ADHD medication simply because they are "too much to handle" without realizing that children can be normally rambunctious, and not taking the proper medical steps toward confirming a learning/mental disability. One prominent example of some parents avoiding their child-rearing responsibilities is the growing trend of some parents using melatonin (hormone that used to regulate sleepiness) to make their infants/toddlers sleep without restlessness despite the worries of pediatricians.
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/investigations/Doctors-Warn-Parents-About-Melatonin-for-Kids-167339615.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324637504578567670426190246.html

Despite all this, there are particular testing procedures/protocols administrated by child development physicians that can provide a more accurate diagnosis, who can provide much more helpful information than solely depending on overworked primary care physicians (who only sees each child in 15 minutes or less).

[Eiko]

My youngest has ADD he is on meds as much as i hate it my son seems to be a lot happier it will get easier for him as he gets older i am told.

[gobo]

Does anyone here have a disablity or know someone who has one?
Yes. Several.
Do you have one?
Yep. A motor-skill deficiency. I couldn't pass a field sobriety test as I've never been able balance myself heel-to-toe.
My father has always viewed "autism" and "learning disablites" or emotional problems as just convient excuses to be lazy or have people cater to you.
How nice of him. I suppose he thinks dwarfism is just a lame excuse not to reach the top shelf.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

The trouble is, doctors can be wrong too, and often are. Look at the history of medical mistakes they make. I had testicular cancer which was initially misdiagnosed as orchitis, and I got the correct diagnosis when it didn't get better.

Also, medicines can be risky too. They might have bad side effects, especially on certain people (I'm allergic to penicillin and sulfa-found out after I had taken both), or they might be a new technology that turns out to be not so good after all. Thalidomide, anyone? Not the thing to give to pregnant women-as was found out the hard way.

Which is why people don't (and shouldn't) have blind faith in what the doctors say.

[Jester]

Redeemer's got it on the head, the reason the Autism Spectrum Disorders seem to have "Blown UP" in recent history is that as it's been studied, more and more has been learned about it and thus it becomes easier to diagnose and those previously unconfirmed, like Jelly Beans sister, can now be figured out. It's not some new epidemic...we just know what it is better now.

[Redeemer]

My youngest has ADD he is on meds as much as i hate it my son seems to be a lot happier it will get easier for him as he gets older i am told.

How old is he/she? People can actually grow out of it. Some forms of ADD are simply a part of the brain that matures slower than other parts of the brain.
They could very well grow out of it when they are in their 20s

[愛]

I was diagnosed with ADD in the third grade, and it's absolutely real. I struggled hard to pay attention in class, and even as an adult without medication I tend to stare at the clock while at work. It's tough on productivity.

You learn to live with it. It gives you personality and I could have a lot worse.

[Icebot]

I have autism and because of that, I hate asking lots of questions in one day and I hate asking questions I don't know how to explain.

And when people use a certain tone at me, it hurts my feelings.

[CyberCubed]

How is autism/aspergers syndrome even diagnosed anyway? Does it have to do with the dosage of certain chemicals in the brain?

People with aspergers are not stupid or, "mentally challenged," its just that they have difficulty in certain areas. Of course it depends on the degree, high-function autism means you can function among everyday society.

How is this stuff even found out anyway? Does a doctor just examine a dosage level in your brain and say, "Gee, this guy has autism!"

[Jester]

Pretty sure it's a set of behavioral "symptoms".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis_of_Asperger_syndrome

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

My husband has Aspergers... He had no idea until just before we got married and suddenly he felt so much more at peace because he never understood why things were different for him (or as he thought about it: why people don't think of things the same way I do). Looking back- several members of his family are definitely Aspergian. His mom just refer's to it as the "Culver Temper" and is in denial that she and her daughter and her brother are Aspergian. Knowing that my husband has Aspergers has saved our marriage because we can find ways to work through communication problems that without the diagnoses would just seem like he was acting like a jerk or being contrary. We've done things like try discussing things while sitting side by side because he viewed face to face converstaions as intimidating... He has made a ton of progress and most people that just meet him just see him as geeky or odd- some don't even notice.

My most frustrating thing I deal with is misophonia. A very little known about disorder where basically certain sounds literally hurt (think nails on a chalkboard amplified). My worst trigger is mouth noises- chewing, slurping, people talking with too much spit in their mouth or heavy breathing. I can't eat with my family most days and I drive myself crazy if I eat bananas. I'm trying to work on it on my own... but I might have to seek help. No shame in getting help with a problem you can't fix on your own.

[mysterycolor]

I have Epilepsy- I was diagnosed 20yrs ago. It has caused me to have grand-mal seizures, petit-mal seizures, migraines and I also have terrible memory problems. My seizure activity as well as all of my memory problems are localized to my right temporal lobe. I have a Vagus Nerve Stimulator and 1 medication to treat the grand-mal seizures, another medication for petit-mal, 2 medications for migraines and the memory problems , well... they just can't seem to help that progression.

[Eiko]

How old is he/she? People can actually grow out of it. Some forms of ADD are simply a part of the brain that matures slower than other parts of the brain.
They could very well grow out of it when they are in their 20s

Yes the doctor has told me he may grow out of it when he gets older or might not everybody is different he is 9 years old.

[BubblyShell22]

Being bad in one particular subject doesn't mean you have a disability. I always hated math as a kid and it was my worst subject, but I got better at it around College.

Just like others who hate english/writing because they don't know how to properly write an essay...is that really a disability? I don't think so.

Did you even read my post? I said that I was tested for a learning disability and it was discovered I had it. I struggled with math in college because of it, and that's why I hate math. It's my weakest subject and always will be. So don't try and say that I don't have a learning disability when I just stated that I do. You are such an ignorant idiot.

[CyberCubed]

Did you even read my post? I said that I was tested for a learning disability and it was discovered I had it. I struggled with math in college because of it, and that's why I hate math. It's my weakest subject and always will be. So don't try and say that I don't have a learning disability when I just stated that I do. You are such an ignorant idiot.

Who said I was even talking to you?

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

One reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repressed_memory) people might think that not all diagnosed mental problems are real.

And if anyone is familiar with Shakespeare's Hamlet, the title character feigns madness to lull his treacherous uncle into thinking that he is no threat.

[BubblyShell22]

Who said I was even talking to you?

Well, it seemed that way judging by your post. But if you weren't talking to me, I apologize. I'm not in the best of moods anyway, so sorry if I lashed out like that. I do admit I learned a lot about math in college, but it was still pretty hard for me, though I did manage to learn equations fairly quickly. I think fractions was the worst type for me though as well as Statistics. Ugh. So glad I don't have to any of that again.

[gobo]

Who said I was even talking to you?
Who were you talking to then? :-?

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Who were you talking to then? :-?

I wonder if Cyber meant it as more of a general statement? Not necessarily directed at anyone on here? Don't know, just throwing it out there!

I also believe that there seems to be a genetic component involved and I believe the more prevelant internet dating becomes(where someone who might be socially awkward in face to face "traditional" dating- they can talk about things easier online and thus get to know someone before being dismissed as "odd") the more I think a lot of Asperpergians (even some Autistic people) are able to actually connect with someone enough to have a relationship- whereas before internet dating it might have been harder for someone who has trouble navigating social settings to successfully court a significant other to the point that the relationship results in a child. Statistically speaking we are more likely to have more Aspergians or Aspie-tendencied people having children who *might* (if indeed there is a genetic component) be more prone to Autism or Aspergers themselves. I hope I'm making sense- my brain does a great job of jumbling up what I'm acutally trying to say.

I would never had met my husband had we not me online on a dating website, I wouldn't have gotten to know him enough to fall in love with him and we wouldn't have married and had our son. Our son is too young yet to know whether or not he has Aspergers, but we have ruled out Autism by now.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Never been diagnosed, but I suspect I may have a mild form of dyslexia, myself. I never noticed it in school, but since becoming an adult, I've noticed that what began as an occasional tendency to mix a letter or two here and there, or to run words together accidentally, has grown steadily worse as I get older. Also, it happens more frequently with numbers. Not sure if one can become dyslexic as an adult, or if it just took longer to notice, but I have to be very careful when typing and go over everything I type out before posting. And at work, I sometimes misread numbers back to customers on the price of an item or an order, or even type it in wrong when I know what it SHOULD be. It's annoying at times. Not enough to cause serious problems, but it just seems like this might be one of the reasons I had so many problems in school, especially in math. I was in gifted classes for much of my school life (because of high IQ and reading levels), but always struggled with many of them. I've also always had trouble focusing and paying attention- so ADD might be another factor- but again, I've never been tested. Makes me wonder if some of my problems growing up couldn't have been fixed. And I fidget or get restless a LOT when I get bored, too.....

On a different note, my husband has Type 1 diabetes, which is also a kind of "disability" in its own right. It's hard doing physical tasks or sports when one has to keep such a tight grip on glucose levels and food intake. After 35 years living with it (he's 38, so he's had it a LONG time) it is beginning to take its toll in the form of neuropathy and now an amputated foot.

[BubblyShell22]

My cousin has dyslexia and my sis has epilepsy. She was diagnosed when she was fifteen and has been on different meds since, though the one she's on now really helps.

[NameGoesHere1066]

my older brother's fiances's little boy has autism. He is a challenge and my brother tries very hard get along with him. Honesty it is beginning to become an issue in his relationship with his fiance because he is wondering if he can handle her son. His autism is not as sever as other cases but he is still difficult.

[Davetello]

If there's one thing that really irritates me it's when people mock the disabled. Disabled people are vulnerable and require compassion - they can't always defend themselves and things can be very difficult for them so to see some coward putting them down really annoys me. It really is a yellow thing to do.

I absolutely despise terms such as 'spazzy', 'mong' and 'retard'. One thing I hate in the original movie is when Mikey calls one of the Foot a 'spaz' in the fight at April's.

[Jester]

Yeah the connotation of "spaz" is far weaker in the USA than in the UK....that and the movie's 25 years old.

[Davetello]

Yeah the connotation of "spaz" is far weaker in the USA than in the UK....that and the movie's 25 years old.

I wasn't aware that there are less connotations of the word in the USA. As for the fact that it's 25 years old, so what? Another thing I dislike is people trying to excuse reprehensible behaviour because 'times were different back then, it was less tolerant'. 1990 isn't exactly that long ago anyway.

I see people do this a lot. Some try to excuse European imperialism and slavery because 'things were different back then, you're judging by modern standards'. I also see people exonerate Prince Philip's racist comments by saying that he's an old man who lived through the 1920s-1970s so of course he will be less tolerant than many of today. I'm sorry, but it's utter BS in my opinion. In the 1800s colonialists should have known that selling and killing fellow human beings was fundamentally wrong, as should Philip in the twentieth century. Despite what people may say, the 1800s and 1900s weren't completely savage - people still had a sense of right and wrong and to try and excuse this sort of behaviour is very wrong, in my opinion.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing here but I don't see it being 1990 or 'spaz' not being as serious a term in the USA as it is in the UK as evidence of the term being acceptable to use. I felt this way back in 1990 when I was 8 years old. If an 8 year old boy can see the bigger picture, why can't grown adults? It's no excuse.

Also, the way you've phrased your reply is very condescending (starting it with 'yeah' and adding in an ellipsis later). Is there really any need for that attitude?

[Jester]

Using a word is not tantamount to slavery. My grandmother uses the outdated term "colored" but it's mainly because of her age, not any bile in her heart.

And yes, despite the shared language, some words in American English are less harsh than their Queen's English counterparts, and vice versa. "Spaz" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_America n_and_British_English:_M%E2%80%93Z#S) is one such word.

[Davetello]

Using a word is not tantamount to slavery. My grandmother uses the outdated term "colored" but it's mainly because of her age, not any bile in her heart.

And yes, despite the shared language, some words in American English are less harsh than their Queen's English counterparts, and vice versa. "Spaz" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_America n_and_British_English:_M%E2%80%93Z#S) is one such word.

More twisting of what I am saying. Where exactly did I say that words were tantamount to slavery? I'm drawing a comparison i.e. you're trying to excuse the use of the word 'spaz' because it was a different era and because it's not as offensive a term over there. Is using the word 'spaz' even in the same stratosphere as slavery? No, but the principle remains the same - trying to remove accountability from people because they didn't know any better.

Your grandma and Prince Philip should adapt to modern times. If I'm still mentally living in the early 2000s as an old man in 2055 then I won't be too happy with myself. I know there's no bile in her heart (in contrast to the royal muppet I refer to) but that doesn't make it alright.

I know that different words carry different meanings and varying levels of severity in UK and US English - I just didn't know that 'spaz' was one of them. Nonetheless, it doesn't negate what I am saying - 1990 wasn't that long ago and people were more 'enlightened' by then. Also, 'spaz' may not be that offensive in the US but it's still a questionable term and the turtles were an international phenomenon at the time who appealed to kids, so the writers should have known better. Despite what your maniacal, interfering president and some citizens of your country think, the world doesn't revolve around the United States of America.

[Jester]

You brought up imperialism and slavery to make a point about word usage. I didn't twist that any more than you did my use of "Yeah" and ... when you saw them as condescending. Just how I speak, sir.

As for the world not resolving around the US, I know it doesn't but you have to see a movie produced in America in its context. And that context is that the word isn't seen as offensive where the film originated from. If a series/film had to check all its usage against slang in foreign markets...everything would be edited down to nothing.

I mean, seriously, this an American based forum, so I can't even type the non offensive UK term for cigarette (***...see.), because here it is offensive. It's more about the context in which a thing is used, than that of the outsider looking in.

[Davetello]

You brought up imperialism and slavery to make a point about word usage. I didn't twist that any more than my use of "Yeah" and ... is seen as condescending. Just how I speak, sir.

As for the world not resolving around the US, I know it doesn't but you have to see a movie produced in America in it's context. And that context is that the word isn't seen as offensive where the film originated from. If a series/film had to check all it's usage against slang in foreign markets...everything would be edited down to nothing.

I mean, seriously, this an American based forum, so I can't even type the non offensive UK term for cigarette (***...see.), because here it is offensive. It's more about the context in which a thing is used, than that of the outsider looking in.

First off, if you weren't being condescending then I apologise. It's difficult to understand tone on the internet, as we all know.

Second, you did twist it. You implied in your follow-up reply that I was claiming that offensive words are tantamount to slavery. I don't think that they're of similar seriousness - I'm saying the principle is the same in that some try to excuse behaviour because of a lack of understanding. At no stage did I suggest words are as offensive as slavery, as that would require a severe lack of comprehension of the latter. I tried to explain this to you in my last post, but you're still misrepresenting my views, be it intentionally or unintentionally. If it's the latter, it's not really my problem if you can't 'get' what I'm saying.

As for your other points about the film being produced in America, I did consider what you're saying. It's a good point, but ultimately I feel it is more relevant to media which is produced with an adult audience in mind. The turtles at the time mainly appealed to very young kids (which we both were) so I'm not sure the use of the word 'spaz' was very appropriate. I know of plenty of British parents at the time who were unhappy with its usage. There was debate about Raphael's use of 'damn' in a film aimed at kids but 'spaz' is far more offensive to many. Ultimately it's a movie aimed at kids all over the world - it was simply unnecessary and inappropriate. The last thing we needed was kids copying their heroes and calling other kids 'spaz' in the playground.

You make a fair point but I still disagree. At least it's a reasonable point, though, unlike your constant insistence that I believe offensive terms are tantamount to slavery.

[Powder]

There's actually a spaz who works on the TMNT, so calm yourself down.

[Davetello]

There's actually a spaz who works on the TMNT, so calm yourself down.

I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me what to do.

This is also like the argument "how can I be a racist? I have black friends!"

That argument went out ages ago son.

I wasn't expecting my post to attract such attention. There's some argumentative souls on here, but I already knew that.

[Jester]

So...because "spaz" is offensive in the UK it should be removed from an American produced movie that might have a market over there? The world doesn't revolve around the UK any more than the US.

Heck, I'm surprised it didn't just get the axe along with Mikey's nunchucks.

[Powder]

I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me what to do.

This is also like the argument "how can I be a racist? I have black friends!"

That argument went out ages ago son.

But father*, you don't want to read this series of TMNT books illustrated by the infamous Patrick "Spaz" Spaziante?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2iix5yf.jpg

Who said anything about racism? Sheesh, some people...

*Son is a very condescending thing to say, hypocrite.

[Davetello]

But father*, you don't want to read this series of TMNT books illustrated by the infamous Patrick "Spaz" Spaziante?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2iix5yf.jpg

Who said anything about racism? Sheesh, some people...

*Son is a very condescending thing to say, hypocrite.


Lol.

Nobody said anything about racism (other than my allusions above), my point is that if someone who was disabled did work on a franchise, then saying that you're not prejudiced against the disabled because this person is your colleague is no defence, in the same manner as having black friends does not preclude one from being a racist. Do I have to hold your hand here in explaining this to you? It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I called you 'son' because everyone else in here is being condescending to me (including yourself by telling me to 'calm down') so I was replying in kind. I'd say that I'm surprised that you lack the perceptiveness to have seen that but I'm not. I bet you were pleased with yourself in believing you had exposed my apparent 'hypocrisy' though. Bless.

Then again, you are the guy who attacked a typo earlier when someone made a very valid point about your attitude (because you had no relevant reply), so that tells us all we need to know about you. I mean who in this day and age picks up on typos in an argument? I have you grouped with a few other individuals as the cliquey type. You and certain others think that as long-time posters you own this forum - you drive new users away as a result (I've seen it). That's something I really dislike about internet fora. There's nothing more embarrassing than someone who thinks that their high post count gives their opinions more worth.

[Davetello]

So...because "spaz" is offensive in the UK it should be removed from an American produced movie that might have a market over there? The world doesn't revolve around the UK any more than the US.

Heck, I'm surprised it didn't just get the axe along with Mikey's nunchucks.

More straw man **** - so now I believe the world revolves around the UK? :lol: 'Spaz' is an offensive term in many countries. For many who speak English as a second language, they know exactly what the term means and it will be offensive in their own country. The fact of the matter is that the USA might not find the word offensive, but it (and it's equivalents in foreign languages) is a pejorative term in many places. The USA is probably in the minority on this one - but then that's nothing new is it?

As for the little jibe about the chucks, that sort of reinforces my point. Apparently showing nunchucks in the UK was deemed bannable at the time, but a word insulting the disabled is fine. I wish it had been censored in our version, even though I never watch that cut any more anyway.

[Powder]

ur so dumb and think ur better than everybody but ur not!!!1 the internet makes me mad!!


My posts were jokes, guy. You're the one over-analyzing the way we type and taking it as a personal attack. You're projecting and making assumptions as well as being passive aggressive. Questioning my intelligence isn't charming either. Never have I implied that my high post count somehow makes me a better person or fan than anyone else. Some of the coolest people here have barely made their mark while others with post counts higher than I recycle the same 20 words over and over ("this is cool" "awesome!!!" "i want one" "lol funny XD" etc.). As for calling out typos during an argument, it's relevant when a person calls another stupid yet can't even use proper grammar or spell correctly. That's just one example.

[Davetello]

My posts were jokes, guy. You're the one over-analyzing the way we type and taking it as a personal attack. You're projecting and making assumptions as well as being passive aggressive. Questioning my intelligence isn't charming either. Never have I implied that my high post count somehow makes me a better person or fan than anyone else. Some of the coolest people here have barely made their mark while others with post counts higher than I recycle the same 20 words over and over ("this is cool" "awesome!!!" "i want one" "lol funny XD" etc.). As for calling out typos during an argument, it's relevant when a person calls another stupid yet can't even use proper grammar or spell correctly. That's just one example.

First of all, there's no need to alter my quote. It's not an accurate reflection of what I was saying. On the other hand, you've went up slightly in my estimation (not that you care) after your more serious reply.

I tend to analyse language so that's no real surprise. I don't feel I'm projecting at all, although I will admit that I am being passive-aggressive. However, perhaps that's because of the fact that Jester (who I like as a poster) has been argumentative for the sake of it here (as well as misrepresenting my views). I don't even consider my original post in here abrasive. The fact that that insufferable cretin 'The Stryker' unfairly targeted me earlier for no reason hasn't helped my current view of the place either (although at least he had the sense to run along when I put him in his place).

If I recall correctly, that guy called you an idiot because you attacked him first. Therefore, he was well within his rights (he had a point I feel as what you said about him was unfair). He was provoked. Provoking someone into abusing you and then turning it back on them because of a typo (probably made because he was flustered when replying) is pretty low.

Some of you really don't have any room to call others aggressive, really. I can sense the anger in some of your posts. Why can't people just be polite and respectful on here? I see silly posts from time to time but, unlike you, I don't feel the need to belittle someone for them. Some people are fragile and don't need that rubbish. If I wanted to I could go around here being an absolute **** to people (believe me, in the past I've did it far better than you ever have), but I won't do that as I have more respect for people's feelings than that (unless I'm attacked first). It's called growing up.

Saying that some of your posts are 'just jokes' is a very big cop-out. Just admit to your own poor behaviour at times.

One more thing - some of the smartest people of all time couldn't spell correctly. That's something else you need to realise. Besides, it was obvious to everyone that his was a typo.

[Powder]

First of all, there's no need to alter my quote. It's not an accurate reflection of what I was saying. On the other hand, you've went up slightly in my estimation (not that you care) after your more serious reply.

I tend to analyse language so that's no real surprise. I don't feel I'm projecting at all, although I will admit that I am being passive-aggressive. However, perhaps that's because of the fact that Jester (who I like as a poster) has been argumentative for the sake of it here (as well as misrepresenting my views). I don't even consider my original post in here abrasive. The fact that that insufferable cretin 'The Stryker' unfairly targeted me earlier for no reason hasn't helped my current view of the place either (although at least he had the sense to run along when I put him in his place).

If I recall correctly, that guy called you an idiot because you attacked him first. Therefore, he was well within his rights (he had a point I feel as what you said about him was unfair). He was provoked. Provoking someone into abusing you and then turning it back on them because of a typo (probably made because he was flustered when replying) is pretty low.

Some of you really don't have any room to call others aggressive, really. I can sense the anger in some of your posts. Why can't people just be polite and respectful on here? I see silly posts from time to time but, unlike you, I don't feel the need to belittle someone for them. Some people are fragile and don't need that rubbish. If I wanted to I could go around here being an absolute cvnt to people (believe me, in the past I've did it far better than you ever have), but I won't do that as I have more respect for people's feeling than that (unless I'm attacked first). It's called growing up.

Saying that some of your posts are 'just jokes' is a very big cop-out. Just admit to your own poor behaviour at times.

One more thing - some of the smartest people of all time couldn't spell correctly. That's something else you need to realise. Besides, it was obvious to everyone that his was a typo.


My god. Stop taking everything so seriously. My first three posts in this thread were simple jokes that you got frustrated by and let fly over your head. That's not a cop out. Maybe my sense of humor isn't for you, but it is what it is. As a person who knows Jester fairly well, I can assure you he is far from argumentative for the sake of it. You yourself said he made valid points, obviously he's putting thought into his statements and feels as strongly about it as you do. Does the fact he feels differently somehow mean he should just give up and submit to your opinion? Obviously not. You seem to have some sort of victim complex. All this talk of being targeted and getting offended by simple things. You wanna talk about growing up, you're a 31 year old man arguing about the way people carry themselves on a forum based out of a childrens cartoon. Plus, you've been trying to belittle me and be condescending this whole time. That comment about how you made Stryker "run along" and "put him in his place" doesn't exactly seem mature to me either. You really have no place to tell anyone to grow up. & the C word is a foul one. Chill with that.

If you don't like me, put me on ignore and spare yourself the aggravation. If you don't like a bunch of people here, then leave.

[Jester]

Wait...he used "See you next Tuesaday"? That was one of the examples I was gonna use in my connotations point.

[Davetello]

My god. Stop taking everything so seriously. My first three posts in this thread were simple jokes that you got frustrated by and let fly over your head. That's not a cop out. Maybe my sense of humor isn't for you, but it is what it is. As a person who knows Jester fairly well, I can assure you he is far from argumentative for the sake of it. You yourself said he made valid points, obviously he's putting thought into his statements and feels as strongly about it as you do. Does the fact he feels differently somehow mean he should just give up and submit to your opinion? Obviously not. You seem to have some sort of victim complex. All this talk of being targeted and getting offended by simple things. You wanna talk about growing up, you're a 31 year old man arguing about the way people carry themselves on a forum based out of a childrens cartoon. Plus, you've been trying to belittle me and be condescending this whole time. That comment about how you made Stryker "run along" and "put him in his place" doesn't exactly seem mature to me either. You really have no place to tell anyone to grow up. & the C word is a foul one. Chill with that.

If you don't like me, put me on ignore and spare yourself the aggravation. If you don't like a bunch of people here, then leave.

I know Jester isn't argumentative, which is why I was taken aback by it. I'm more interested in the fact that he keeps claiming that I'm equating offensive words with slavery, when anyone reading my posts can tell that isn't the case. Besides, the 1990 film was just an example (relevant given what this forum is) - my general point is that I don't like anyone using the term 'spaz' or 'mong' as an insult.

I don't see how that makes me immature. I've seen people chased away from this site before because of the likes of 'The Stryker'. If you think I'm the immature one in this scenario then that says far more about you than it does me. I've also seen you use this argument before..."this is a kids' cartoon forum!". First of all, it makes no difference whether it's a tellytubbies forum or a Scarface forum - the fact of the matter is that people shouldn't be allowed to act like dickheads without reprisal. Second, the forum isn't just for the cartoons - many of us are interested in the more serious comics as well. The place may be named 'thetechnodrome' but it's not exclusively about 1987.

I spoke like that about 'The Stryker' because he's particularly irritating and he deserves my condemnation. He gives a lot of abuse out and seems to get away with it, so I'm sure he can handle some back. That's why I speak in such aggressive terms there. Considering he attacked me for absolutely no reason, it's quite obvious who's immature in that situation.

Why would I put you on ignore? Some of your posts are alright, and even if they weren't, I rarely if ever put anyone on ignore. I did consider it with Stryker though, which should tell you just how intolerable he is.

Why should I leave, and where did I say I don't like a bunch of people? Attitudes like yours and the Stryker's are in the vast minority here - most people are respectful and just want to talk turtles or other issues. It's the demeaning, unnecessary posts which bring the place down, so if anything they're the people who should leave (or be banned). I don't have a problem with Jester either - this is just a misunderstanding. You just couldn't help yourself though - you thrive on animosity.

I don't have a problem with a bunch of people on here. Please don't flatter yourself. Please don't even try to label me immature when you pick up on typos and consider spelling prowess a barometer of intelligence.

As for the 'c' word, the fact that that is considered more offensive in the States than 'spaz' shows what a backward nation you are at times.

[Powder]

http://i41.tinypic.com/v8di0y.gif

[Jester]

As for the 'c' word, the fact that that is considered more offensive in the States than 'spaz' shows what a backward nation you are at times.
This...isn't helping keep me from jumping back into the argument.

I really don't know if our "spaz" derives from the outdated term "spastic" used for those with Cerebral Palsy. I can't tell you if we ever used the term "spastic" and the shorted term to describe those people. If our word never had the tie to those who were disabled and only those who were extremely excitable to the point of spasm, then there's no reason that word to have the nasty taste that it leaves in British mouths.

[Davetello]

http://i41.tinypic.com/v8di0y.gif

I'm generally a very affable individual, but I tend not to back down when someone starts on me. I've seen you be abusive before so it was quite obvious I wasn't going to think you were only joking in your original posts, wasn't it?

[Davetello]

This...isn't helping keep me from jumping back into the argument.

I really don't know if our "spaz" derives from the outdated term "spastic" used for those with Cerebral Palsy. I can't tell you if we ever used the term "spastic" and the shorted term to describe those people. If our word never had the tie to those who were disabled and only those who were extremely excitable to the point of spasm, then there's no reason that word to have the nasty taste that it leaves in British mouths.

Fair enough. If that's the case then perhaps you have a point. The way Mikey uses it though (as if to describe an incompetent rather than excitable foot soldier) doesn't seem to back up your belief...

I still find it strange that the 'c' word is more offensive over there than 'spaz'. Why on earth should women find that word offensive? It's just a word for their genitals, like the 'p' word.

[Powder]

I'm generally a very affable individual, but I tend not to back down when someone starts on me. I've seen you be abusive before so it was quite obvious I wasn't going to think you were only joking in your original posts, wasn't it?

I would just completely drop it but in order to prevent you from telling the next guy that I ran off after having been put in my place, I'll say this- I'm done here. It's going nowhere.

[Jester]

Here it's an step up (or down...depending on how you look at it) from calling them a "female dog"...

Again...why is the "s" word so offensive there? Different cultures, mate.

[Davetello]

I would just completely drop it but in order to prevent you from telling the next guy that I ran off after having been put in my place, I'll say this- I'm done here. It's going nowhere.

I don't think I've 'put you in your place' (although you've said some weird things, which I did reply to). You've at least tried to be serious in the aftermath. To be fair, you're not on Stryker's level of bellendry or idiocy, so I'm less irritated by you. I've actually seen you make good, constructive posts. I can't say the same about him. In my opinion he's the worst poster on this entire forum.

[Davetello]

Here it's an step up (or down...depending on how you look at it) from calling them a "female dog"...

Again...why is the "s" word so offensive there? Different cultures, mate.


Different cultures, indeed, dude. But the difference is that the 'c' word doesn't degrade a vulnerable group of people (unless you listen to too much of what feminists say). The 's' word does i.e. the disabled are a far more vulnerable and discriminated against group than able-bodied women. In that sense we have to eradicate and discourage any terms which denigrate them.

I did know that the 'c' word is highly offensive over there, though. If I meet a very abusive individual next time I'm over there I will call them said word (although I don't really fancy being shot in the street, another wonderful law you have there).

Oh, and given the state of your health care system, I'm not really surprised that the disabled are seen as scum in the USA.

[Jester]

Again...it's not taken that way here. I actually had to look up who it's meant to offend. To be honest I thought those with epilepsy first, because that disorder would cause you to spasm....but I was wrong...because it's not a slang term for someone with a disability here. It's almost a form of geek...or dweeb...in fact.

http://vimeo.com/15432053

Also any thoughts on Raph's usage in Secret of the Ooze?

EDIT: Seriously, dude. All the snide back handed remarks about 'Merica aren't endearing you to me...and they are making it hard to see this argument end.

AND if I was a total jerk, I'd say, "I'm winning!" because you have to constantly resort to denigrating my freakin' country.

[Davetello]

Again...it's not taken that way here. I actually had to look up who it's meant to offend. To be honest I thought those with epilepsy first, because that disorder would cause you to spasm....but I was wrong...because it's not a slang term for someone with a disability here. It's almost a form of geek...or dweeb...in fact.

http://vimeo.com/15432053

Also any thoughts on Raph's usage in Secret of the Ooze?

EDIT: Seriously, dude. All the snide back handed remarks about 'Merica aren't endearing you to me...and they are making it hard to see this argument end.

AND if I was a total jerk, I'd say, "I'm winning!" because you have to constantly result to denigrating my freakin' country.

Well that's very strange. It's generally shorthand for a 'spastic' (in fact over here the term 'spaz' has almost died out now and the full term 'spastic' is generally used as an insult).

Haha, I knew you'd eventually mention me being 'anti-American'. If it's any consolation, I hate the UK too and think we're just as bad (in fact in many ways we are even worse). I just despise your government, gun laws, health care system and the fact that you still have capital punishment. We have many draconian laws of our own but at least we don't have those three. Don't view it as winning because my dislike for these aspects of American life are legendary and I'd probably bring them up in a less heated debate as well. On the plus side some of your entertainment is sensational (if a bit preachy).

For what it's worth, you seem a good guy and you have made some good points here (although at times it seems you're playing devil's advocate). The only thing that really annoyed me was the claim that I think offensive terms are as bad as slavery.

Patriotism is bollocks mate. The USA and UK - we're both as scummy as each other, so please don't take this as me being a little-Englander. I generally hate the west as a whole. Given the Syria situation you can hardly grudge me a few shots at your country right now.

EDIT: forgot to address Raph's usage in SotO.That backs up what I say as well because he clearly means Perry is an idiot or gimp. I'm sure they've said it in Mirage as well.

[Jester]

forgot to address Raph's usage in SotO.That backs up what I say as well because he clearly means Perry is an idiot or gimp. I'm sure they've said it in Mirage as well.
Or....he's calling him a dork. He is a pretty big dork.

[愛]

What the hell is even going on? Good lord, cut it out and get back on topic.

[Davetello]

What the hell is even going on? Good lord, cut it out and get back on topic.

Hey, it all bizarrely escalated - I didn't want this either, and I suspect the other lads didn't either in the end. That's why this is so weird.

Jester - that could be plausible, but I'm still not convinced (the context Mikey says it in the first movie seems to lean to my side of the argument, which would imply similar for SotO).

Anyway, it's all something that we keep going over. It won't be resolved and the turtles were just an example. My original post was about people in the UK using the word - this debate would never have occurred had I not referenced an American film. So we can drop it if you like.

And apologies for insulting your country. Feel free to insult mine though, because I will probably agree with you.

[Mayhem]

I still find it strange that the 'c' word is more offensive over there than 'spaz'. Why on earth should women find that word offensive? It's just a word for their genitals, like the 'p' word.
I guess you don't play online gaming much, otherwise you'd be bombarded with shouts of "gaaaaaaay" every twenty seconds or so...

"Spaz", in my experience, only appears to cause an outrage in this country. I am unaware, despite having many friends in many other countries around the world, of them finding the word offensive. Witness what happened when Tiger Woods used the term during an interview on British TV to describe how played in one particular round. A Nintendo videogame (I think it was one of the Mario Party series) got pulled because of a single instance of using the word!

"Spaz" derived from the word "spastic" as said, and the use of the term caused The Spastic Society to change its name because of the negative connotations associated with it, probably sparked by us 80s kids bandying the term in the playgrounds in response to Joey Deacon on Blue Peter. So the charity changed its name to Scope. You know what happened? Kids started calling each other "scopers" in the playground instead. My brother and I occasionally josh with his girlfriend over her name, because she is S.Cope (seriously).

You can't escape human behaviour. I'm not condoning it, but I suspect you'd be trying to fight a losing battle. And Americans I've known for a long time just don't find the word offensive, and don't use the word as an active aggressive cuss. Which similar terms such as the shortening of Pakistani, or the C word, are also in this bracket, along with the usual J word and N word.

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online :lol:

[ZariusTwo]

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.

[Jester]

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online :lol:
What about teeth?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Great post, BTW.

[Davetello]

I guess you don't play online gaming much, otherwise you'd be bombarded with shouts of "gaaaaaaay" every twenty seconds or so...

"Spaz", in my experience, only appears to cause an outrage in this country. I am unaware, despite having many friends in many other countries around the world, of them finding the word offensive. Witness what happened when Tiger Woods used the term during an interview on British TV to describe how played in one particular round. A Nintendo videogame (I think it was one of the Mario Party series) got pulled because of a single instance of using the word!

"Spaz" derived from the word "spastic" as said, and the use of the term caused The Spastic Society to change its name because of the negative connotations associated with it, probably sparked by us 80s kids bandying the term in the playgrounds in response to Joey Deacon on Blue Peter. So the charity changed its name to Scope. You know what happened? Kids started calling each other "scopers" in the playground instead. My brother and I occasionally josh with his girlfriend over her name, because she is S.Cope (seriously).

You can't escape human behaviour. I'm not condoning it, but I suspect you'd be trying to fight a losing battle. And Americans I've known for a long time just don't find the word offensive, and don't use the word as an active aggressive cuss. Which similar terms such as the shortening of Pakistani, or the C word, are also in this bracket, along with the usual J word and N word.

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online :lol:

Thanks for your reply mate. That makes a fair bit of sense. I only really play FIFA online and mainly against Europeans. I don't have a headset and neither do most people I play so I don't hear many strangers talking. However, I'm well aware of the immature kids on PS3, Xbox Live etc.

All that stuff about tea, crumpets, Harry Potter etc is hilarious. I bet they'd ask if I was sitting in a kilt when they saw I was Scottish :lol:

I was pretty sure other countries found terms such as 'spaz' (or a translation) offensive though. Perhaps they don't.

I can't believe Americans have the temerity to preach about the 'c' word when they don't care about 'spaz'. I suppose they'll say the same about me in this debate, but I've already outlined my reasoning i.e. the disabled are a far more persecuted group than able-bodied women (unless you're a feminist who thinks women are being treated poorly by not making enough money to buy that new Gucci handbag).

Oh, and yeah, I'm fighting a losing battle because many people just don't respect the disabled, which is awful.

[Davetello]

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.


You shouldn't feel inadequate. Spelling ability is not an indicator of intellect. Some of the smartest people ever couldn't spell - wasn't Einstein dyslexic?

It's not your fault that you have aspergers either. If people try to belittle you because of that then they're not worth your time. Keep your chin up lad.

[Jester]

Seriously dude...it's all culture and connotation.

Here....
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003020.html

I've already outlined my reasoning i.e. the disabled are a far more persecuted group than able-bodied women (unless you're a feminist who thinks women are being treated poorly by not making enough money to buy that new Gucci handbag).

Oh, and yeah, I'm fighting a losing battle because many people just don't respect the disabled, which is awful.
Oye...that's not at all sexist. There are some distinct things women do have to deal with aside from affording designer bags...like sexual assault.

[Davetello]

What about teeth?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Great post, BTW.

On another note, are you going to reply and tell me your feelings on patriotism (open a new topic if you don't wanna derail this one)?

[Davetello]

Seriously dude...it's all culture and connotation.

Here....
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003020.html

I scanned that. Fair enough, it appears that it isn't meant in the British manner in the States, but it certainly seems that way when Mikey says it. I will drop it now, although it has been an interesting debate.

I think we can both agree that the use of the word 'spaz' in the British context is repulsive though, yes? And I'm assuming that words like 'retard' are derogatory over there. So simply substitute the word 'spaz' with a term which is used to cause offence to American disabled people and my original point stands.

[Davetello]

Oye...that's not at all sexist. There are some distinct things women do have to deal with aside from affording designer bags...like sexual assault.

Nah, I agree, you're right. I'm being deliberately hyperbolic because feminists over-egg things. However, I think we can agree that the disabled are far more persecuted than able-bodied women, on the whole. Not to mention that their lives are generally more difficult minus the persecution, due to being disabled.

[Jester]

I scanned that. Fair enough, it appears that it isn't meant in the British manner in the States, but it certainly seems that way when Mikey says it. I will drop it now, although it has been an interesting debate.

I think we can both agree that the use of the word 'spaz' in the British context is repulsive though, yes? And I'm assuming that words like 'retard' are derogatory over there. So simply substitute the word 'spaz' with a term which is used to cause offense to American disabled people and my original point stands.
Again...you're using English context on an American turn of phrase. If anyone has to see the other side it's you. I understand it's a terrible "word that shall not be uttered" over there, but here it's just a synonym for dweeb or nerd or dork. That is the context it's being used in. Instead of replacing "spaz" with "retard" replace it with "dork" or "dweeb" and the point stands. Mikey is an American and is using the American slang phrase. It would be like me getting bent out of shape about your usage of "C***", because my American sensibilities were bruised. Its meaning is different over there.

As to the patriotism thing it's off topic, and if we did start a new thread it's probably meet a quick end, as political threads are want to do.

Nah, I agree, you're right. I'm being deliberately hyperbolic because feminists over-egg things. However, I think we can agree that the disabled are far more persecuted than able-bodied women, on the whole. Not to mention that their lives are generally more difficult minus the persecution, due to being disabled.
I dunna...most people would be labeled a jerk for mistreating the disabled and rightfully so. Also most of those other life difficulties can be aided with help from others. People with disabilities need acceptance not pity.

[Davetello]

I dunna...most people would be labeled a jerk for mistreating the disabled and rightfully so. Also most of those other life difficulties can be aided with help from others. People with disabilities need acceptance not pity.

I'm not so sure about that. We often hear that those who mock others are generally the most caring people, and the fact that they are comfortable mocking certain groups shows that they treat them as equals. I think this is a deeply flawed argument and, by and large, those who use pejorative terms are the very type who are prejudiced against the disabled and other groups. I'd say less people are tolerant of the disabled than you think.

I figured some might see pity in my words, but it isn't that. I too agree that they need acceptance and not pity. I think it's more 'compassion' that I'm leaning towards, rather than sympathy. I suppose compassion is sort of defined as pity but I don't really see it that way - I view it as an acute awareness for people's problems, while maintaining respect for them and their right to dignity.

[Davetello]

Again...you're using English context on an American turn of phrase. If anyone has to see the other side it's you. I understand it's a terrible "word that shall not be uttered" over there, but here it's just a synonym for dweeb or nerd or dork. That is the context it's being used in. Instead of replacing "spaz" with "retard" replace it with "dork" or "dweeb" and the point stands. Mikey is an American and is using the American slang phrase. It would be like me getting bent out of shape about your usage of "C***", because my American sensibilities were bruised. Its meaning is different over there.



You're not understanding what I am saying. Yes, replace 'spaz' with a word like dork i.e. spaz isn't meant to denigrate the disabled over there. That's fine. What I mean is that, if an American uses an equivalent American term for the British 'spaz' (e.g. retard etc, I donno, what words over there are designed to cause offence to the disabled?), that would back up my original point. If I'd used an American word which is designed to cause offence, rather than 'spaz' then things would be fine.

In actual fact, I most certainly am seeing the other side of things, because I've conceded your point about 'spaz' and I'm now asking you to tell me an American equivalent which would substitute for the BRITISH 'spaz', not the AMERICAN 'spaz' (I hate capitalising words but I'm trying to emphasise things and I don't often use bold type).


I can't explain this more clearly so I hope you understand this time.

[Jester]

I understand. Yes, it would be essentially "retard"...if that's what Mikey (Raph) meant. That's all I'm saying. I understand it's offensive THERE. It isn't HERE. The movie was made HERE, the line was said by a character from HERE, and thus the context of the line is the context of the word's usage HERE. Mikey (Raph) wasn't calling the Foot Soldier (Prof. Perry) a "retard" because the word "spaz" doesn't share the same connotation. They were calling the other person a dork, or a dweep, or a geek, or a nerd.

Back to "c***". if I watched a British film and they used the word, and I got offended by it, it would only be because I was using an American frame of reference. If I stopped, and looked at the British context, I'd probably be more inclined to not be so offended.

England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

[Davetello]

I understand. Yes, it would be essentially "retard"...if that's what Mikey (Raph) meant. That's all I'm saying. I understand it's offensive THERE. It isn't HERE. The movie was made HERE, the line was said by a character from HERE, and thus the context of the line is the context of the word's usage HERE. Mikey (Raph) wasn't calling the Foot Soldier (Prof. Perry) a "retard" because the word "spaz" doesn't share the same connotation. They were calling the other person a dork, or a dweep, or a geek, or a nerd.

Back to "c***". if I watched a British film and they used the word, and I got offended by it, it would only be because I was using an American frame of reference. If I stopped, and looked at the British context, I'd probably be more inclined to not be so offended.

And I've explained to you that I understand that now, and as that's the case I won't be offended by it any more. Now, if Mikey or Raph had said 'retard' then I would be offended, as that obviously means similar to what 'spaz' does here (and indeed what 'retard' itself does).

I generally agree with you about context to the host country as I explained before. There were two reasons I took issue with your reply. First, I was unaware that 'spaz' was one of those words which has a different meaning in US and UK English. Second, I felt that in a kids' movie being marketed to an international audience, its usage was not appropriate. I've conceded the former point, and it's also been claimed that the UK is one of only a few nations which finds 'spaz' objectionable. If that is indeed the case (and since I too don't think the world revolves around my corrupt country), I admit that I went OTT on the latter point.

Again though, if the turtles had said 'retard' and it was an intended attack on the disabled, THEN my point would stand. But they didn't. however, my original point stands for anyone who calls someone a 'retard' in the USA, with the intention of belittling the disabled.

I hope we can put this confusion behind us now.

"England and America are two countries separated by a common language."

Lol what is even the point of that? I KNOW that there are major differences between US and UK English, how many times do I have to ****ing tell you that? The entire point is that I didn't know that 'spaz' was one of the words that that applied to in my original post. I still wasn't convinced by your claims, but I am now so have dropped it i.e. 'spaz' is a word which has different connotations there and here, so as a result I will concede that. FFS.

[Jester]

Consider it dropped.

[Davetello]

Good man. After about three replies of me saying the same thing you've acknowledged what I meant. Dropped.

[愛]

It's like people can't have a proper conversation anymore without going "u dumb" "no u dumb."

[Davetello]

It's like people can't have a proper conversation anymore without going "u dumb" "no u dumb."

Come off it, there's been plenty of elaborating on our views in this thread, in amongst the hostility.

It's over now. Like you, I don't enjoy arguing on the internet either but that's two or three times now someone has confronted me. Admittedly Jester was more civil than others, but he still misrepresented my position. It didn't help either that I was unaware that 'spaz' isn't offensive in the US.

It's been dropped now, and I'm playing 'soccer' in ten minutes. So let's just leave it there and get back on track. I'm not here to argue with people. I wanna discuss the turtles (and general issues) in a respectful fashion.

[愛]

There was no need to go and say "you're dumb for having me have to explain my point three times." That's all I have to say about that.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.

I have dispraxia as well, was very frustrating for many, many years. Still is occasionally. I also had crippling panic attacks for about 5 years (not sure why they stopped exactly, but very thankful). I wouldn't leave the house for the most part. Then I got a medical alert Service Dog and was able to finally get on with my life and eventually went back to college. He really was a life saver and now is retired and is a fat, lazy old couch potato. It was (and still is) amazing to me how the general public perceives those with a visable disability vs a non visible one. I was told countless times by stores, etc. that there was nothing wrong with me and I couldn't bring my dog in. So I learned all the ADA laws and would quote them off to anyone who stopped me. People are always a mystery.

[Mayhem]

The only further thing I'll add to this discussion is that any American trying to discuss fanny packs here in the UK is going to get some funny looks and sniggers :P

[gobo]

"Spaz" means disabled? O_O I did not know that. I thought it was just a nickname for spastic person.

[Raph's Girl]

I was diagnosed with Aspergers at 28. It took several years for me to be officially diagnosed too.

Im on disability as Im unable to work full time. I don't like being around people and get anxiaty attacks over the littlist things. Growing up the excuse was that I was just shy and tended to be a loner. My family always forced me to be in groups and stuff. But since I was diagnosed they've all read up on it and now let me do my own thing. They're also noticing that other members of the family may be Aspies as well.

I also have a form of math dyslexia called Dyscalculia. Numbers tend to merge together for me and I've always had issues with even subtraction. Almost failed the 5th grade because of my math issues. My parents ended up getting me a tutor that helped a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia

Im also Colour blind (blue/yellow to be specific) and I have a form of thyroid disorder called Grave's Disease (basically my immune system is frakked).

Plus Im a midget (4ft 6in). :P

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

The only further thing I'll add to this discussion is that any American trying to discuss fanny packs here in the UK is going to get some funny looks and sniggers :P

Also, don't give a Chinese man a green hat. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Reading through all those rants on the previous pages has made me roll my eyes. Jesus.

I keep trying to think of anyone in my family who has a disability but I don't think there's a single one. I must live in the most, "normal" family out there, because not only does nobody have any disabilities, but everyone is also straight. No joke, there are no gay members in my family at all.

People having a little anxiety is one thing, but I can't think of anything else.

[Jester]

Reading through all those rants on the previous pages has made me roll my eyes. Jesus.

I keep trying to think of anyone in my family who has a disability but I don't think there's a single one. I must live in the most, "normal" family out there, because not only does nobody have any disabilities, but everyone is also straight. No joke, there are no gay members in my family at all.

People having a little anxiety is one thing, but I can't think of anything else.
Any family with you in it can't be THAT normal.


Your family sounds down right un-fabulous!

[CyberCubed]

Any family with you in it can't be THAT normal.

Your family sounds down right un-fabulous!

My entire family has well paying jobs and as far as I know they're all normal:

- Father sells life insurance and other types of insurance.

- My mother is a schoolteacher

- My grandparents when they were younger worked in hospitals as nurses

- All my uncles/aunts etc. all have decent jobs and own private houses.


I'm also glad that nobody in my family is an alchoholic or smokes. Granted my grandparents smoked when they were younger but again they grew up in the 50's and 60's when everyone smoked.

[Jester]

Didn't say anything about yourself...

[CyberCubed]

Didn't say anything about yourself...

I've already said that as far as I know I'm not diagnosed with anything. My only problems is the amount of fillings I need for my teeth. I tend to get around 5-6 cavities a year but they get taken care of quickly.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

My entire family has well paying jobs and as far as I know they're all normal:

- Father sells life insurance and other types of insurance.

- My mother is a schoolteacher

- My grandparents when they were younger worked in hospitals as nurses

- All my uncles/aunts etc. all have decent jobs and own private houses.


I'm also glad that nobody in my family is an alchoholic or smokes. Granted my grandparents smoked when they were younger but again they grew up in the 50's and 60's when everyone smoked.

Not specifically speaking of your family as I don't know them, but your post reminded me of an excellent point I feel needs to be made. So many people (general public) seem to view disabled people as unable to hold down "good paying'" jobs or that they would be destined to serve fast food or rise no higher than a cashier. While I'm a firm believer that any job done well is an honorable job, the general public seems convinced otherwise. There seems to be a stigma that anyone that is disabled somehow would never be able to be a stock broker or a CEO or a Principal of a school.

While there are most certainly degrees of disability, one can look at a suprising number of people and see greatness from disabled individuals. Temple Grandin who is Autistic has become a world leading expert on Cattle (and other animal) behavior and has completely changed the face of beef and how it is obtained. She would not have been nearly as productive had she not been autistic. Catherine Zeta Jones and Patsy Cline are/were both Bi-Polar. King George (don't remember which one- during WWII) had a crippling fear of public speaking and a stutter, but was able to work through them enough to speak to his country through the radio. There are many others but my damaged memory won't let me remember currently.

I know many people with disabilities that are more productive than people I know that are normal. You are the only one that can set limits on yourself and disabilities can often allow unique perspectives that otherwise wouldn't present themselves.

[Jester]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/joker.gif

[CyberCubed]

On this topic, does anyone think Peter Laird might be autistic or have aspergers? He does seem to be rather possessive over the way people handled the TMNT franchise when it was under his control, look at the way he chewed out the 4kids writers on those scripts. Also in his blog he goes into extreme detail about the spellings of certain words and it bugs him when people use definitions incorrectly.

I've always wonder if PL had aspergers and it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

[Jester]

The more my sister works with kids with autism the more she swears everyone is on the spectrum somewhere.

I know that sometimes when people use certain phrases it can cue a song lyric or movie line in my brain. (I've coined it "Human Jukebox Syndrome." It's often at it's worst in church where a pastor's words will cue appropriate hymns in my brain.) Doesn't keep me from having a "normal" life, but it's quirky.

[Mayhem]

I know that sometimes when people use certain phrases it can cue a song lyric or movie line in my brain. (I've coined it "Human Jukebox Syndrome." It's often at it's worst in church where a pastor's words will cue appropriate hymns in my brain.) Doesn't keep me from having a "normal" life, but it's quirky.
Don't worry, the same thing happens with me. My work colleagues are used to it by now :lol:

[BubblyShell22]

My BF is legally blind due to optic nerve atrophy, and he will eventually go totally blind one day. Still, it hasn't stopped him as he can do things I never thought he'd be able to. He can kick my a** in video games and is really good at it.

[gobo]

"Human Jukebox Syndrome."
:lol: A side-effect of punitis, I'm sure. :P

BTW, I thought normalcy was diagnosed as boringness syndrome.

[Leo656]

Sh*t, if I hadn't decided to take an unrelated internet break for a few days, I damn sure would've if I'd been around to read the last 4 pages. Holy f***. Glad I missed that.

Anyways... I don't talk about it much because I don't consider it disabling to me, and most people either don't care or completely misunderstand it, but as a kid I was diagnosed with a low-level type of paranoid schizophrenia. My counselors attributed it to basically "shell-shock", apparently it's very common in kids who grow up in loud, violent households. I was about 11 or 12 when I was in counseling for various rage and depression issues; at that point I was constantly threatening suicide and otherwise acting very violently towards everyone. I'd walk into a room of people talking, and if they all stopped talking and looked at me (which happened a lot) it would make me extremely paranoid and think they were talking about me or laughing behind my back. I'd usually walk up to the closest random person in the room and, saying nothing, punch them in the face, just assuming they had it coming.

I was (and am) a very paranoid person; sometimes I still get delusional, convincing myself certain things are true when they can't be or likely aren't. It doesn't help that most of my paranoid feelings do turn out to be true in some way; my parents always lied to me and so did all my girlfriends and now my wife, to various degrees. My wife isn't very understanding at all, which makes it hard. Her feelings are, "you're just an assh*le", basically. She really feeds into my triggers; when she swears she isn't talking bad about me to someone, she is, usually on FB to the whole world, which is an awful thing to do, but sometimes in front of our friends or family she'll say something to put me down in some way. Or else we'll have an argument, either at home or at work, and she'll say she's going to the bathroom or something but instead she just leaves and I have to scramble to find a way to get where I have to be. My mother used to just abandon me and my Dad, sometimes for days, and was always putting him down to other people, and when I explain this to my wife she just tells me I'm "too sensitive" and should "get over it". But when the things I'm paranoid about happening actually do happen, it triggers really bad outbreaks, still. Sometimes I feel like nobody understands or cares.

When I have an outbreak, I really do lose all outward control. I literally feel myself lose control and become a spectator to whatever comes next. I start hearing whispers in my head when I'm alone, telling me to say and do terrible things. I'll usually lose memory of almost the entire incident once it's over. At work, I've almost never had a problem, because in that type of environment I can relax, all I have to do is my job. At my old job I'd occasionally get in a scrap with someone for being an assh*le, but nothing major and it was the kind of job where nobody much gave a sh*t. But dealing with family members or my wife, people who will intentionally try and get me upset (even though they know what's going to happen), is very difficult, because they're supposed to try and understand me and NOT try and make me upset. Seems like in life the ones we're supposed to care about are the ones we treat the worst. I would like to put all this behind me, but I don't think I ever will.

I was told, and firmly believe, that the low-level of my condition does not require medication. Reason being, the things that set me off are more or less things people intentionally say and do to trigger it; by myself, I'm very mellow. It takes a lot to get me mad, especially nowadays. But I still lose it when provoked. Really, all medication would do anyways would make me able to better-tolerate other people's abuse of me, which I think is wrong. My reactions to things that are said and done to hurt me is one thing, but to me is less important than the fact that people should not be TRYING to upset me in the first place. They also told me that when it's such a low level of the "disorder" that medication shouldn't be required; I should just "avoid people who are going to trigger me", which is everyone I know, basically. It's tough to maintain my relationship, because she simply does not care; she wants to retain the right to say and do hurtful things, knowing full well I'm not going to take it well, and then when I flip out and say even worse sh*t, she then uses THAT against me too, saying I deserve to be called whatever she originally called me because I'm clearly such an assh*le. And she never, ever apologizes, just says I'm "too sensitive" and just need to "deal with it better", disregarding that the entire point of having any type of schizophrenia, even mild, is that you aren't always in control of your thoughts, actions, or emotions. I even had her read a pamphlet, which she disregarded entirely. Actually she crumpled it in a ball and tossed it aside. :ohwell:

I never considered it disabling *to me* since it hasn't affected my job, and I don't have many of the symptoms like hallucinations that more severe forms carry. And despite what many say, it *has* gotten better as I've gotten older; I honestly can't recall the last time I punched holes in the wall or smashed any furniture, and physical confrontations are strictly for money these days. But it happens occasionally, and it sucks, because I know it makes me a hard person to be around. But I'm trying. Others may not see it, but I struggle every day to be a better person; it's just hard when you're constantly fearing the worst and more than sometimes finding out it's true. Or as the joke goes, "You're not being paranoid if they're really out to get you."

The best thing about knowing about it, honestly, was that I was able to understand myself and my emotions better. As a kid I just thought I was "broken" or "crazy" and had definite plans to kill myself. Being told more or less, "It's not your fault, they did this to you and you're simply reacting to it," was empowering. It sounds narcissistic, but even as a kid I wanted to believe I was "good" and didn't do anything to deserve being hit, screamed at, or told I was no good, and having it reinforced that really, I was fine, and it was 10 years of going through that violence on a daily basis that "broke" me and made me lash out at the world, hate myself and everyone else... I definitely had no plans to live this long. I even used to joke about it in school; teachers would ask me what my future plans were if I didn't start applying myself more, and I'd casually remark "I don't plan to live that long." I guess it's no wonder they put me in counseling. :lol:

But I'm glad they did, it was brief but it was one of the best things I ever had happen to me, and otherwise I may well have been a statistic. It doesn't shock me that almost all of these school shooters and movie theater shooters are diagnosed with some schizophrenic disorder. I empathize, to a point; they usually have it more severely and in their minds, something "made" them do it because they feel like they have to "get back at someone" for some abuse or misdeed. I get it completely; sometimes you feel like the whole world is broken except you and you just want everyone to drop dead, or you want to hurt them the way you're hurting because it's "what's fair", but they're entirely screwed up and many of them either go off their prescribed meds OR otherwise have a steady stream of external triggers, like abusive parents, kids at school, whichever, and nobody takes the initiative to step in before something bad happens. But I do empathize because I very likely would have done something stupid if nobody ever tried to help me.

It just sucks that as an adult people care less, especially as a guy you're just supposed to "suck it up" whenever anyone treats you bad. It's frustrating. I just try and take things one day at a time. My wife and I are talking about separating, though, so who knows what that'll bring with it.

Like I said, for me I don't think of it as "disabling" but I figured I'd mention it since we're all being open and such. It's a complication, for sure, but not a crippling affliction, for me. For many others, it absolutely is, though. I do wish more people understood various schizophrenic disorders, though, or tried to. "He's just an assh*le" isn't always the most accurate assessment. :ohwell:

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Very soul-bearing post Leo656. I wrote a similar one... apparently I forgot to hit Submit Reply or something, because it is nowhere to be found.

Upon the illusion of anonymity that the online forum brings... I'm Bi-Polar and while I'm doing really well now- I'm stable on all my meds and regularly see my Psychiatrist, it was a very long road and I wanted to give up at every turn.

I was first diagnosed after a suicide attempt because a voice told me too. I went through months of vivid, horrific hallucinations before they could get my meds on track. That was followed by a 2 year period I only remember about 10% of because I was so overmedicated I wasn't awake until around 3 pm and was groggy up until about 6 pm. From 6 pm to about 9 pm I'd go into a horrible rage in which I would threaten to hurt my family (I lived with my folks at the time) or my self. I put holes in walls, myself, etc. From about 9pm to 1 am I would just cry and finally fall asleep somewhere around 1 to 5 am. It was a living hell, so maybe only remembering 10% of it was a blessing. I was 18 years old when this all first started so I missed out on what I felt like was a huge part of my life. I still get very emotional talking about it and don't tell anybody really. Too painful. I had no control over my life and as far as I could tell nothing was really changing to indicate that I would ever be a functioning adult.

I had tremors so bad there were days I couldn't feed myself. My face developed acne so bad it would bleed. I developed hypothyroidism. I would randomly faint upon standing up. These were all from side-effects from my medications. I also had crippling panic attacks to the point I wouldn't leave the house. I was fortunate enough to have a Medical Alert Service Dog and with his advanced warning of the panic attacks I could calm myself down and take my pill and was able to actually leave the house without so much fear.

I ended up going into the ICU after a blood test that said my Lithium levels were in danger of sending me into seizures or a coma. They took me off all my meds at once and I tell you what.... I was trippin'!!! :tconfuse: There were gardens on the ceiling, ants marching on my arm, all sorts of weird hallucinations.

The Lithium toxicity ended up being a blessing in disguise because it allowed the Dr. to changed up my meds enough to take me off the more intense ones that were causing all the side-effects. My tremors took another year or so to subside, but my Hypo-Thyroidism went away within 6 months or so. Unfortunately it took another 3 to 4 years for me to be able to wake up and be a functional adult before 1 pm. I had a boss later on that didn't understand that I simply couldn't work mornings. I actually had a vehicular accident because of it. Some people at work thought I was drunk because I talked like I had a fat tongue or something. After 1 or 2 pm though I sounded fine.

Over the course of my mental illness I've been in the Psych Ward twice and it is one of the scariest places. The first time I had just turned 18 and was considered an adult, but being in there with all the other patients who were 10-40 years older than me was very frightening. I don't remember the whole thing I just remembered crying a lot and doing puzzles...

I know what you mean Leo656, about paranoia, I'm not so much anymore (although I definitely have tendencies) but you feel like every little nuance is a sign that everybody is conspiring against you or something. It doesn't always make sense but it doesn't make it any less real to you. I've been fortunate enough not have had any traumatic life events, every horror I've gone through was thanks to my lovely brain. :teek:

After my husband and I had been married for 2 years I decided that I wanted to have a kid so bad that I would go off my meds. (My husband wanted kids too, but didn't want me to risk my mental health) After being off my meds for over 9 months (that kid just didn't want to leave! :tlol:) I had done damage to my brain, most notably my memory. I used to be able to win debates, I could remember everything. Now I'm lucky if I can remember an idea long enough to wait until it's my turn to talk or til I can find a piece of paper to write it down on. It's very frustrating and has affected my vocabulary as well. But as frustrating as it is, I would do it again in a heartbeat. Not that we are going to risk it, we have our beautiful little boy.

I've lost count of how many times I've heard people use "Bi-Polar" as a slang about people acting out. It is hurtful to hear and I don't think most people realize that the stigma of a mental illness often drives those affected to keep it hidden. There have been some recent efforts to dispel the stigma surrounding it by Glen Close whose sister has a mental illness (can't remember which type...) but I think the general public has made much more progress with shedding light on Autism and Aspergers :tgrin:. I think one of the hardest things about people accepting mental illnesses is when you see many of the affected people who have been off their medication too long (much of the time due to not being able to afford it) they can be scary acting and very abnormal and even inappropriate. It is so sad to see how far some people have slipped because although they can be stabilized, there is nothing that can be done to repair the damage that has been caused to their brains.

[Leo656]

Man, that's some rough stuff though. Kudos for sticking it out and persevering. I know how it can be, between physical illness and mental illness, many people in my family are medicated to some degree. Part of my mother's problems were that she was over-medicated - her doctor was a candyman who has since had his license revoked - and mixed her meds with alcohol, so part of me has always been really, really distrustful of any type of medication. My mother was so clearly suffering adverse affects, between taking pills for back pain, anti-depressants, and stimulants, but everyone was basically like, "Let her do what she wants, she's a grown-up", and when she added alcohol and recreational drugs it was a nightmare. She would wreck the house, attack people, act crazy in general, and then pass out for four days. She got better when she briefly quit drinking, but she started doing more pills and got addicted to opiates which eventually helped kill her. :ohwell: She did need some of her pills, but I really wish someone had listened to me and tried to intervene when she was so clearly hurting herself. It's made me distrustful of doctors and medications, especially since my Dad worked for Squibb for almost 30 years, knew what every medication was and what it did, and he would explain in great detail how doctors and pharmaceutical companies work together to over-diagnose medications and turn "mental problems" into a billion-dollar business, which in turn has people who actually *are* sick slipping through the cracks.

I've often wondered if some kind of mental illness runs in my family. When I was a kid both my mother and sister were briefly in mental institutions after particularly violent episodes (years apart and separately), there have been a few suicides, lots of cases of depression, and tons of alcohol and drug abuse, which in some cases is a symptom of deeper psychological problems. It's part of why I don't want kids, I see too many negative patterns repeat in my family and I don't want to contribute anything.

I'm glad you're doing much better; I agree with conditions like bi-polar disorder and even ADHD being recklessly used and over-used in cases where it has no application, while those who actually are afflicted are sometimes outright abused because some people think it's all "nonsense". One of my friends likes to describe herself as "bipolar" but she has no hallucinations or delusions or anything, she just uses it to excuse her sudden, violent mood swings, which everyone else accurately diagnoses as, "She's kind of a bitch". There's a huge difference between someone having mood swings and a person with bipolar disorder.

I too wish more people were open to discuss, and really listen, about mental illness and the reality of it. Many people are really judgmental and ignorant about it. When I hear about kids killing themselves because of bullying or things like that, I'm torn, because while it's a stupid thing to do, some of these kids undoubtedly have some kind of psychological problems that haven't been caught yet, and I can't help but think of all the times I was as young as 8 and already wondering if life was worth living, and I end up wondering if I'd even be here if someone hadn't gotten involved. Things already seem huge and overly-dramatic when you're a kid, before the rational part of your brain fully develops, but when you have a literal whispering voice in your head telling you that everyone hates you and you should do something stupid, it's a recipe for a disaster. I feel bad for these kids, because the internet's made it so easy for people to mess with each other and things never really go away.

People need to have more empathy in general.

[Refractive Reflections]

I gotta say all you guys are very brave to post about your disabilities and the struggles associated with them here. Yes, it may be under the cloak of anonymity from the internet, but still revealing it any degree takes courage knowing the harsh preconceptions of others.

Wow Leo656 and Dawnatello Turtle Chick, my heart goes out to you two.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow, Leo and DTC, I had no idea you went through all of that. You're so brave for letting it all out there and explaining your problems. I'm glad that some things have gotten better for the two of you, though I'm sad that you and your wife may separate, Leo. That's not cool because I always thought you guys had a great relationship. Still, she shouldn't be treating you that way and should be more sympathetic to your needs. I say better to let her go than to be with someone who doesn't care.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Wow, Leo and DTC, I had no idea you went through all of that. You're so brave for letting it all out there and explaining your problems. I'm glad that some things have gotten better for the two of you, though I'm sad that you and your wife may separate, Leo. That's not cool because I always thought you guys had a great relationship. Still, she shouldn't be treating you that way and should be more sympathetic to your needs. I say better to let her go than to be with someone who doesn't care.

And ditto from me. :cry:

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Thanks for your kind words everyone. Leo: I feel for you. When my husband and I were first married (about 1 year) we were constantly fighting. I tried to get him to go to therapy with me and such but he refused. One day he got home from work and I told him I was leaving and took all the pets and my stuff. He finally realized that his behavior had to change for our relationship to work (mine did too, but I had been willing and he wasn't). He came up to my work and re proposed to me (which for an Aspie was a HUGE deal). We went through therapy and we have had a very strong marriage ever since. I hope your wife can realize how hurtful her words are and change how she acts towards you. Marriage is hard and it is easier to quit sometimes, but if she is unwilling to work on it you can't work on it all by yourself. I've heard marriage isn't 50/50, it's 100/100. Sounds wierd but its very true. Whatever happens, I hope it turns out for the best. If your wife doesn't work to keep you then she's losing a good man. Stay strong and as a good friend of mine would say: "Find your Buddah" in other words find something that you can think about or do to help you relax and cope. You'll make it, the best is always yet to come, as long as you believe it will get better.

[Leo656]

Eh, I'm no prize myself, but I do acknowledge when I'm being difficult even if it is after the fact, and take steps to correct my behavior. She's content to lay blame and that's all, which is tiresome. It's been so long I don't want to feel like it was all for nothing, but we'll see. I keep trying to make things right but for now at least she doesn't seem very interested. We're stuck living together regardless, so things might work themselves out, I don't know.

I appreciate the support, at any rate. I often do wish I'd stayed single, because life is undoubtedly easier when you're only worrying about one person and not two, but it's way too late for that. We have everything in common, which is good, but also bad, because when two angry people try and out-spite one another, the results can be disastrous.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Eh, I'm no prize myself, but I do acknowledge when I'm being difficult even if it is after the fact, and take steps to correct my behavior.

Don't sell yourself short, that is an increasingly rare trait! It is hard to take responsibility for your actions, but it lifts the weight off your shoulders to do so.

I appreciate the support, at any rate. I often do wish I'd stayed single, because life is undoubtedly easier when you're only worrying about one person and not two, but it's way too late for that.

While I see your point, when marriage does work it is so much better than being single. You know you have someone to worry about but it's a blessing, because they are also worrying about you. If you end up in the hospital, you will have a visitor. Not to mention you often end up with 2 paychecks which helps too! :tsmile: When my husband and I were fighting during our first year of marriage it felt more like 5 years. Everyday was a struggle. But these last 4 years have flown by! It's all about perspective I suppose.


I do think it's great that we are talking about stuff like this, because it puts it out in the open and shows that people can go through some messed up **** and still come out as normal as anyone else... (normal is a misnomer anyway). I wouldn't necessarily be willing to talk about it if I were still working for a company, but now that I'm self-employed I guess I feel like it wouldn't negatively impact me as much if someone found out. At any rate, I hope our words reach someone and help, even in some small way. Understanding can be hard, but showing kindness is possible without completely grasping someone else's situation.

[Leo656]

Yeah, having two checks coming in is a big reason we're still together. Possibly the only reason at this point.

Perfect example of what's been going on literally just happened; she started to tell me something and I coughed to clear my throat, which I have to do constantly because I have a sinus condition. Literally, I have to clear my throat every couple minutes. So immediately she comes in with accusations like, "Y'know, it's really convenient how you have to clear your throat every time *I* try to talk, like you just don't want to listen to me." I've been coughing all day, so her ridiculous accusation made me angry, so I yelled at her to stop f*cking accusing me constantly of doing things for the sole reason of pissing her off, because that's not what I'm doing. Every day someone accuses me of being a liar, or having some ulterior motive behind things I say and do, and I'm sick of people questioning my sincerity, and it's usually her, who should know better by now. So instead of thinking "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't make baseless accusations and assume the whole world revolves around me, and everything anyone does is about me. Maybe I should take it at face value that he had to clear his throat." Instead she yelled at me for yelling at her and called me "insane". I calmly explained that I'm simply sick of her accusations and can't take it anymore without flipping out, and she replied "You're just an assh*le." I again reminded her about my schizophrenic disorder, which yielded "Yeah, whatever, you need to suck it up and get over that sh*t already." She's very empathetic, in case you can't tell. :roll:

I've pretty much written it off at this point. I usually don't like to air our laundry in public but she's been attacking me on FB for weeks, telling people personal conversations and arguments and flat-out lies mixed in, so I'm venting. We absolutely have no future if one person in a relationship can NEVER be wrong. And not to be misogynistic (although I am, and readily cop to that as well) but it's a common theme I've noticed in women and can't stand: The majority are never wrong about anything, and I'm the kind of person who will fight to the death if I know I'm right. All of my married friends are like "Nah dude, you're always wrong, you're the guy, that's The Rule," but I'm not interested in being someone's scapegoat for the rest of my life.

Ah well. Like I said, we're stuck living together for the time being, so we'll probably just make due like my parents did, ignoring/avoiding each other entirely unless absolutely necessary until massive furniture-smashing fights ensue resulting in someone being arrested. It really is foolish to think a person can break that cycle, I guess. I mean, if it "worked" for my parents, my aunts and uncles, etc., what makes me any better than them? Further, what delusion ever allowed me to convince myself I'd succeed where they "failed"? I guess I deserve this. I don't know.

I've learned that in southern parts of China, people called the Mosuo have a tradition called "tisese", sometimes called a "walking marriage". Basically, it's just a "steady sex buddy"; if two people want to hook up, they do, the guy leaves in the morning and there is absolutely no talk of ever living together. These relationships can be made public or kept entirely secret, but living together is unheard of, and even if the woman has kids, she raises them alone or with the aid of brothers in her family; the Mosuo men are not considered "fathers" and have no responsibilities toward the child. The man stays at his own home and helps raise his sister's children instead. In each family, the woman acts as the head, and children have no fathers but each has various uncles. According to one strain of logic, this lets each man raise a child that he knows is his relative. When you marry a woman, you can never be quite sure if the children she bears have any of your genes, after all. To the Mosuo, the concept of marriage and staying with one person forever is an abomination, a form of torture and punishment, and in fact, parents threaten their children by telling them they will marry them off if they misbehave.

I know we knock the Chinese for their massive human rights violations, but at least some of them figured out ONE thing the rest of the world got wrong: relationships. People would be much happier if the whole world worked that way.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Ah well. Like I said, we're stuck living together for the time being, so we'll probably just make due like my parents did, ignoring/avoiding each other entirely unless absolutely necessary until massive furniture-smashing fights ensue resulting in someone being arrested. It really is foolish to think a person can break that cycle, I guess. I mean, if it "worked" for my parents, my aunts and uncles, etc., what makes me any better than them? Further, what delusion ever allowed me to convince myself I'd succeed where they "failed"? I guess I deserve this. I don't know.

Just because your parents survived their marriage (without divorcing or killing each other) doesn't mean it worked. You deserve better or you wouldn't see what was wrong (and that part of the fault was your own- takes 2 to tango so they say). There was never a failed marriage in which only 1 person was to blame. The hard part is when one person feels that they aren't adding to the problem and sees no reason to change. No one is perfect and I know I've accused my husband of things that turned out to be nothing more than my own paranoia. The only way things can change is if you take a big risk and MAKE them change. I don't know your exact situation, but there is always a way, it just might take a while to figure it all out.

One thing I found that help us, was if my husband and I were talking about an uncomfortable topic it would quickly turn into yelling (during our 1st year of marriage). So if it was a sensitive issue I would find a way to send him the information where he could read it while I was gone and think about it for a long time before he saw me again. I'd email him things that were bothering me and explain that I wanted to vent and help him understand why I felt the way I do. It helped us to understand each other better without arguing as much.

One thing that really helped us in the beginning stages of working on our marriage was to start pointing out the good things the other person was doing. It's hard to train your brain to do that after you've spent so long doing the opposite, but it helped. I always felt stupid saying stuff like "I liked how you put the wet laundry in the dryer" because who says that? But then I'd laugh at myself and sound happy and it would further diffuse any situations. Hard to argue if you're laughing.

I don't have the answers, I wish I did. All I can say is if you love who she is when you aren't fighting, then try to find more ways to bring that person out. Maybe after her mood improves you will find a way to help her see that your feelings are real and perfectly valid. If she can't see that you as a person (not just the parts she chooses to recognize) are worth the effort then there is nothing more you can do. Settling is always a regrettable decision. Sometimes life just requires a gigantic leap of faith. The hard part is recognizing when it is a good idea...

[BubblyShell22]

That sucks, Leo. Sounds a lot like my sister and her husband who haven't been getting along either. He's a jerk and even refused to put her on his insurance after they got married despite her having medical problems. She moved out and went to my grandma's house but after a week, she wanted to move back with him. I told her not to, but she insisted she had to, so she did. I think she's an idiot and I really hope she gets rid of him because she doesn't deserve someone who's going to treat her like sh*t. I know I wouldn't stand for that and would leave after the first sign of disrespect. I just don't take sh*t from anybody, and my BF knows it.

Then again, I really don't want to get married because I feel that sometimes marriage ruins more relationships than helps them. I'm not saying all marriages are like that, but most are.

[Leo656]

Too many people get involved too young, for reasons mostly about physical attraction, which is scientifically proven to fade over time, and often they have few common interests. Most people I know who got married or seriously involved before age 25 either have since split or they are very unhappy in the relationship. I now completely feel that people are not capable of making sound decisions before that age; hell, Current Me wants top kick Younger Me's ass for some of the stuff I did back in the day. Statistically, people who get married older stay together longer. But most people aren't patient enough to find someone who really fits them, or else refuse to lower their physical standards of attraction in order to find someone emotionally compatible.

Just a few observations about why some relationships fail, or seem to be failing.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, and a lot of people have this idealized version of what a relationship is and that they'll be with someone forever when reality is that sometimes that isn't the case. You really have to be sure this is what you want and work it out if you really love someone. It's a two way street whether you're married or not. I'm thirty years old, and I'm in no rush to get married if I ever do. It's kind of complicated though because we don't know if my BF would lose his disability if he married me, so that's one thing we don't want to happen to him. I'm okay with not getting married as I feel you don't have to get married to prove you're in love with someone. I don't want to wear a ring all my life anyway because I just don't wear jewelry at all and never felt the need to.

But, back on topic, I hear you about not having any knowledge of your disability until later in life, Leo. That happened to me at college when I finally learned what my disability was all about and why I had it. I always knew something was different about me, but when it came to college, I finally learned that I can't learn things as quickly as others can. Of course, there were some things I did learn faster than others, but other things I couldn't do. Fractions was a big one for me, especially reducing them. I could never tell if a fraction had to be reduced or not. Gah, I hated that.

I know I already said that before, but I felt the need to point it out. Let me tell you, it sucked when I had to do math, and I'm so glad I don't have to anymore.

[Jelly Bean]

well it is now confirmed that I have dyslexia. My tests just came back. In a way I am sort of relieved because for the longest time I thought I just had a problem. My dad rolled his eyes at me, and asked if this means I need special treatment now. :roll: My dad's opinion on disablity seems to be shared by more people than I thought apparently alot of conservative people tend to think that it just an excuse to to be catered too.

Also I want to say that I am amazed at some of the things that some of you had to guts to reveal about your selves and how unjudgemental all of you are being toward the people who revealed their problems and not blasting them for it or saying they are using their disablities as a way get special consideration. Leo in partcular kind of touched me. It's a shame youre disablites/issues is affecting your relationship with your wife. She sounds inconsiderate and bitchy. Bet she doesn't have the same life experiences as you to act that way.

[Leo656]

Eh, I appreciate that, but I don't think I'm particularly brave, I just don't give a sh*t what people say or think about me. I don't feel I have anything to hide about myself or my life, and I'm used to being judged, accused, what have you. So I just put myself out there and let people say and think what they want, because they will anyway. All I ever wanted is/was to be *understood*.

As for her, it all comes down to a basic lack of empathy. She openly admits that she doesn't really care what happens to anyone else, as long as it doesn't affect her in any negative way. I can be that way at times, but not *all* the time. I've been trying to keep things civil, and trying to be nice, but so far she's just being obstinate. We haven't said we love each other in over a month; in 13 years we never went more than two days. She didn't even say it on my Birthday. She did get me a present for my Birthday, but even that was kind of spiteful, as when I went to hug her she tried to push me away, and a few minutes later when she was leaving the room she stopped and said "I want you to know, I still hate you." :ohwell: She still talks about the future as if we'll be together when it comes, but refuses to let things mend. I can't understand it, but it kills me that we are now almost exactly the same as my parents, except we aren't both cheating on each other all over the place. Case in point, I started typing this at about midnight... she started a screaming match because I cooked something she apparently wanted to eat, after she specifically told me she wasn't hungry and wasn't going to eat anything. Everything I do anymore is wrong. I had a dream last night that I killed us both. I've apologized for every single bad thing I've ever said or done, and all I get is people constantly telling me what a horrible person I am, because I want MY feelings to mean something. Men aren't allowed to have feelings, society says, but I say that's bullsh*t. She again tried using things I've said and done during "episodes" as proof I'm a horrible human being, and once again when I calmly tried explaining my condition IN DETAIL she again belittled me and it. It's not that she doesn't understand, it's that she doesn't WANT to understand. Anything that makes things more complicated than "NO, you're just an ASSH*LE!" is something she doesn't want to hear.

Things have been going very well in every other area of life, but I've seriously started contemplating suicide again. My life is seriously irreparably ruined, all because I made the "mistake" of wanting to be in a relationship with someone I had literally everything in common with, and at the time figured she would grow out of her immature, selfish, irrational behavior. I have no friends or family really because they all hate her and long ago decided if I stayed with her I was cut off. I'm too old to start over with my entire life, so I really don't know what's going to happen. This is in no way a "cry for help", because nothing anyone can say or do can help, and if I decide to do something stupid that's my prerogative. Ever since the first time I threatened to kill myself when I was 7, and my mother told me "Go ahead," I've been convinced it was my destiny to kill myself. If we split up and I have to live on the streets again after everything I've worked my whole life for, I'm definitely going to. I don't deserve that after everything I've been through already. It's not like it would affect anyone really, since the only person I see often enough to care apparently hates me.

Full disclosure: I'm a strong advocate for suicide, in cases outside of my own, even. Several people in my family have done it; it's really not that big a deal. People get over it. Life is pretty lousy for most people, and I feel it takes a solid mixture of delusion and naivete to want to live in this world for 80 or so years, especially when even people who "care" about you are judging you and calling you names behind your back. People should be allowed to punch out when they feel like, and if they're not happy it doesn't make them "weak" or "stupid", it just means they're tired. If you hate your job, you quit. If you hate your neighbors, you move. If you hate your life, you end it. Seems completely logical, rational, and enviable to me. Frankly, I've tried and haven't found a way to follow through. Deep down, I'm afraid of it. But I'll probably figure it out if I have to.

My niece is 14 now and started crushing on boys, getting upset when the ones she likes don't talk to her, etc. I sincerely wish she would ignore all that stuff. Not one person in my entire family has ever had a happy relationship, male or female, and all the women end up with abusive guys and all the guys end up with selfish bitches. A couple even killed themselves over it (Seeing a pattern?). I don't care what anyone says, in my experience you become your parents or at least carry on their behavioral cycle, and fall for the type of people they fell for. I'm not sure if it's the mental disorders or the drug abuse or both that causes it. If I could FORCE my niece, or anyone, to follow just one bit of advice, it would be Stay Away From Relationships. It really isn't better to have loved and lost; you just feel like everything you ever did was a huge waste and wish one of you was dead. That's all you get, in the end. In case I haven't made it clear, I've given *everything I have* to this girl and our relationship, and now I have nothing at all. :ohwell:

I probably shouldn't be writing all this in the middle of having an "episode", but f*ck it, right now this is how I feel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaaaaanyways, that's a tough break about being dyslexic, but lots of people struggle with that. That's a legit disorder that I was pretty sure most people had accepted as legit by now, but I guess not. I do get what you mean; as someone who's mostly-neutral but leans conservative, we don't ALL think everyone with a disability or disorder is looking for a free ride or a hand-out. Sucks some people in your family seem to think so. If you've made it this far without "special treatment", why would he think you're suddenly going to use your diagnosis like a crutch? Some do, sure, but in another way it's kind of liberating when you find out there's an actual cause for the problems you've been having. People should be more understanding.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Hey Leo. I hope you figure it all out. My life was hell with no seeming hope for any other outcome for several years. But as I've learned , if you stubbornly cling to life long enough, things change and you end up with something you didn't think would ever happen.

This is a great explanation of where I felt like I've been, I bet you can relate, or at least get a laugh.
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html?m=1

I hope you find your piece of corn.

[Leo656]

HAH! That was clever and well-written. Definitely easy to relate to. Well, up until the ending. I've never had anything like that happen to me. What generally happens after an episode is, since I can't find the will to die, I just ignore everything around me except my work. Since at least there I have some control over things and can at least *pretend* I'm appreciated by the people around me, I become obsessed with work and working out and wrestling, things I can control. And like I lot of people in the "sport", I wrestle partly because I can hurt people at least a little bit and pay no consequence, and also because I've become physically addicted to pain, because it's an alternative to that "nothing" feeling. And now and again, I'll accidentally drop the "happy-go-lucky" act in front of someone and have to come up with some version of "I'm just tired" to use instead of "I've long since decided life is a zero-sum game, and during the dull moments of our conversation, I'm trying to decide if I have any days next week where I'm not too busy to off myself. Because if I have too much sh*t to do, I'll have to put it off." Makes no sense, right? I don't get it either. While acknowledging that I don't seem to be moving towards anything worthwhile, at the same time I'm kept alive almost entirely by the fact I'm too busy!

That's something else that pushed friends and family away; none of them EVER understood any of my "issues" or bothered to try, so whenever I'd shun socializing (and their false "Cheer up!" platitudes), and jump headlong into work (which, to be fair, I can't really afford financially to NOT do, anyway), they'd take it personally, some even verbally attacking me for "not being there for them", because I don't or can't just go out drinking or to a movie or whatever. And seemingly all of them have tried to "help" me relate to people better with this tried and true gem of advice: "It's not that we don't care about you, but the thing is, nobody cares about anyone else's problems, and that's just life. It's not that we don't want you happy... we just don't want to hear about why you're not." As far as me and Mary, the few people who bothered to hear me out would remind me, "The most important thing you can do... is not tell anyone your problems and keep it between the two of you. Nobody ever wants to hear about that sort of thing." So basically, "Be someone who makes us laugh or just disappear," are my options if I want to be around people.

I mean, I get it, I know perfectly well nobody really cares about anyone else's problems, I just don't care anymore. If I do end up dead, I at least want people to know who was responsible or what the reasoning was.

Aaaaaanyways... this clip always makes me chuckle. George Carlin really was the Smartest Guy Who Ever Lived.
6ucRM0eYD7U

[BubblyShell22]

Sorry to hear about your problems, Leo, but you're wrong that no one would miss you if you died. We'd miss you here on the Drome because you're an awesome person who really brings a lot of insight into your posts and you really make all of us think about things when you do. Also, I'm sure your wrestling family would miss you, too, as you've contributed a lot to that company and have done a lot of good things for them. So don't think that you're alone and that no one would care.

I'm lucky to be in a good relationship now, but if it doesn't last, then it doesn't last. I'm not going to be like my sister who decided to keep going after guys in search of "the right one." For me, the one I have now is the only one I want, and if I can't have him, I don't want anyone else. Screw it. I'll just give up and stay single.

And I hear you about suicide, too. I've thought about it myself many times, but I never went through with it because I knew there'd be people in my life who would miss me and who would probably not like the idea of me being gone. I know there are some out there who feel they have nothing to live for anymore, and if that's how they feel and they don't have any measure of support in their lives, then they should just do what's best for them. Depression is a bad thing, and while many view suicide as selfish, I disagree because you don't know what's going on inside of the mind of that person.

Back on topic: Sorry to hear about your dad, JellyBean. He really needs to get educated about this stuff. My cousin has dyslexia and has struggled but is doing very well for herself. I'm sure you'll be fine, and if you need help, there are always ways to get it. Good luck.

[Leo656]

Thanks. Feeling better today, slept through most of the day since I didn't have work until 6. That's usually how I "settle" after having an attack, I just waste a day and try and forget about everything. Nice light day at work, no stress tonight so far.

What kills me is how we'll fight and get so vicious and she'll say she hates me, but then she'll do something sweet for no reason without being asked, like today she got Chinese so I didn't have to cook after work. I have no idea what she really wants anymore. She tells me one thing, our friends another, they swear she says she wants to reconcile (conditionally, of course) but tells me she isn't interested and that she hates me, then turns around and buys us food or concert tickets or whatever. I hate mixed signals.

Either way, I have a good weekend coming up so I'm trying to gear up for that. Mentally, I'm pretty unfocused, but somehow that seems to help my ring work a lot of times. Sometimes we fight all day on the way to a show, and I get there ready to kill someone, but then when the bell rings everything's crystal clear. Things I usually screw up, I don't, I'unno it's weird. Could be a coincidence; I've gotten a lot better in the ring this year anyway. Looking forward to it, either way.

[Dirty Blond]

I'm a strong advocate for suicide, in cases outside of my own, even. Several people in my family have done it; it's really not that big a deal. People get over it.


I :tlol:'d

[Leo656]

:lol: Well I'm not rooting for EVERYONE to do it, but fact is some people just wanna get the f*ck outta here, and I think their feelings should count. I mean, I know how completely fake and BS it sounds sometimes when people are all "Hang in there".

Occasionally people have told me in private that they're suicidal, and it kinda seems more like they just want someone to talk to, which I'm cool with, but it's very uncomfortable, because they're like "What's good about living?" and in my head I'm like "Sh*t, do they have any idea at all how bad I am at this?" :lol:

Luckily I haven't had anyone I know do it since I was a child, and those people didn't talk to me first, so as far as I know I don't have anyone on my conscience. I just feel like if someone really feels that bad, it's almost disrespectful of me to suggest otherwise, y'know? I don't know what they're going through. :ohwell:

[BubblyShell22]

Glad you're feeling better, Leo, and I hear you on that. I think though that most people who do kill themselves don't want to talk about it and hide the pain more often than not until it's too late to help them out. And that's sad.

[blindturtle02]

I'm totally blind as some of ya already know. It's funny really because when I mention this on other forums hardly anyone replies to pretty much anything I write. Cool forum, the technodrome. One thing that never ceases to frustrate me is that people often equate a physical disability with a behavioral etc. I have no idea why, but people associate blindness with mental/social/behavioral disibilities and all that jazz. My x's dad was just plain prejudiced period. He said she needed someone more than a nice guy to support her and all I'd ever be was a nice guy. Sounds pretty funny from a guy who does the door to door salesman thing and who's get rich quick schemes always went straight down the crapper. I'm really blessed to have a future father in law and bride to be who aren't that way at all.

Did you guys know that before 1975 or so that people with disabilities weren't allowed in public schools? I kid you not. And the Americans with Disabilities Act was only passed in 1990? I'm learning all kinds of interesting little factoids since deciding to become a teacher. Before that act went into motion, there was all kinds of discrimination. Still is actually. No elementary schools where I reside in a district that boasts 30 to 40 or so will allow me to come in and do my 40 hours of field based experience which is a part of the teaching certification process so I gotta go 30 or so miles to another town to do this. Oo fun. My fiancé's dad who worked in the special education field did say there were some pretty corrupt folks around here though. lol he was right.

[ZariusTwo]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties Leo. At least you'ree putting your foot forward and keeping yourself together with your work...it must take a load of discipline and energy to concentrate on your matches, but I'm sure feeding off the adulation of the crowd and being encircled by like-minded athleats helps settle you in rough patches. Chin up me lad

I have dispraxia as well, was very frustrating for many, many years. Still is occasionally. I also had crippling panic attacks for about 5 years (not sure why they stopped exactly, but very thankful).

Did you get mood swings because of it? That happened to me for about three years, I was locked away in my room doing nothing but post online and leaving little time for real food and drink or relations. The attacks left me angry and dismissive of everyone that could have helped me cope with my exisiting bouts of depression and frustration much more quickly.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Did you get mood swings because of it? That happened to me for about three years, I was locked away in my room doing nothing but post online and leaving little time for real food and drink or relations. The attacks left me angry and dismissive of everyone that could have helped me cope with my exisiting bouts of depression and frustration much more quickly.

That's hard to say, since I'm bipolar too it's hard to know if things like you describe we're due to the panic attacks or the bipolar. But I would get so focused on doing projects that I would lose all track if time (5-8) hours sometimes. I'd start on something mid-day and look up and it was dark out. On days like that sometimes all I'd eat was 1 meal a day because I would just forget to eat. I was also fairly paranoid of many people/things, due to both the panic attacks and bipolar. My paranoia has greatly subsided, but I still have to fight myself to not be mistrustful of certain settings or people. Honestly right now one of my biggest issues is my misophonia. I worked such long hours for years and often ate all 3 meals alone, that once I quit my job to be at home more with my son I eat all 3 meals with my family and the chewing just drives me up the wall.

[Jester]

Yeah, blindturtle, I've always looked at you as proof positive that "disability' can almost be a state of mind. You may not be able to see, but that never stopped you from pursuing you dreams and interests. I'm glad to call you one of my best friends, and wish you and Becka all the bast.

[BubblyShell22]

I have to agree with Jester that you are definitely an inspiration, BT. My BF's the same way. He may have some limitations and will have more once he loses his sight entirely, but I know he'll still keep on trucking as long as I'm there to support him. He told me that it doesn't matter that he's going blind as long as the last thing he sees before he does is me, but even if that's not possible, it's okay.

And, BT, I'm glad that you got away from that father-in-law. Sounds like he was a real jerk and was discriminating against you for being blind. Wow, really? I would have hit him upside the head for that.

[Cure]

I'm totally blind as some of ya already know. It's funny really because when I mention this on other forums hardly anyone replies to pretty much anything I write. Cool forum, the technodrome. One thing that never ceases to frustrate me is that people often equate a physical disability with a behavioral etc. I have no idea why, but people associate blindness with mental/social/behavioral disibilities and all that jazz. My x's dad was just plain prejudiced period. He said she needed someone more than a nice guy to support her and all I'd ever be was a nice guy. Sounds pretty funny from a guy who does the door to door salesman thing and who's get rich quick schemes always went straight down the crapper. I'm really blessed to have a future father in law and bride to be who aren't that way at all.

Did you guys know that before 1975 or so that people with disabilities weren't allowed in public schools? I kid you not. And the Americans with Disabilities Act was only passed in 1990? I'm learning all kinds of interesting little factoids since deciding to become a teacher. Before that act went into motion, there was all kinds of discrimination. Still is actually. No elementary schools where I reside in a district that boasts 30 to 40 or so will allow me to come in and do my 40 hours of field based experience which is a part of the teaching certification process so I gotta go 30 or so miles to another town to do this. Oo fun. My fiancé's dad who worked in the special education field did say there were some pretty corrupt folks around here though. lol he was right.

Man, I thought that was just a username. I'm really curious, how do you browse the internet and junk? You don't need to answer or anything, but it fascinates me what people can do, disabled or not.

EDIT: Never mind, I just Googled it. Still, if you wanna give some more personal examples, I'll read it.

[Jester]

Google mention Jaws? That program be all sorts of freaky.

[Cure]

It did, actually. That no good?

[Jester]

Blind Turtle'd know much better at the pros and cons of Jaws. I just know that the voice they use for the program is very spooky.

[Leo656]

It's amazing to me how totally capable so many sightless people are. We live in such a visual world, so many of us take for granted how we receive and transmit so much information visually. It's inspiring and amazing how people can adapt when necessary and keep moving forward.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'd never actually kept any kind of record from one of my "bad moments" until that rant the other day - never kept a journal or anything like that when I was depressed - and I usually can't remember most or all of what was said, thought, and done in those periods of time. A lot of times it's like a black-out. So it's kind of surreal to look back at all that from a calmer perspective. It's surprising how we can compartmentalize things, isn't it? To be fully aware in the moment of things we say, do, and feel, and then later have no recollection? Kind of disturbing, too. Either way, it's been fairly calm for a few days.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, a lot of us do take sight for granted and never really appreciate how easy it is to see things as we do. I have heard of Jaws, and I agree that the voice is pretty spooky as my friend Dennis once showed me it and how he used it. Dennis and his brother Keith were also blind, so they banded with me and Chris (my BF) when we all met in college. We would jokingly call ourselves The Blind Table because we always tended to sit together, though we always let others sit with us. If anyone asked to sit with us we'd say, "Sure, you can sit at the Blind Table." Good times.

[blindturtle02]

Thanks Jester and Bubbly. I'm glad I'm able to inspire people. It's very fulfilling to make a difference. haha, liked that blind table bit. There were folks who attended the same college as Jester and I who just didn't get the fact that we tend to joke around with it. That in itself was pretty funny. And Cure, if you have any questions about blindness at all just ask. I'm def not one of the adversarial types although there are a few of those out there I suppose. Yeah Jaws is a great program for navigating the net. Rather than using the mouse, I just use keyboard shortcut commands and such. Sorry I hadn't seen these posts before now, guys.

[BubblyShell22]

That's cool. Yeah, we banded together a lot in college, and I was glad to meet people who were a lot like me and knew what it was like to have a disability like blindness. I never had that in high school and was the only one in my class who was like that. Granted, I had a lot of good friends, but they just didn't understand the nature of my disability the way the guys at college did. And, of course, I was lucky enough to meet someone I've been with for ten years now, so that didn't hurt at all.

[Sage Ninja]

I keep coming back to this thread and everytime I have the intention of writing in it I lose my nerve. But after reading about 3 pages of people not only revealing their disablities but also bearing the darker areas of their soul i'm just gonna dive in.

I have a learning disablity called an information processing disorder, and boy does it affect me in almost every area of my life. It means I have a disablity with problem solving and my calculation skills are very poor. This affected me growing up because I trouble interperting nonverbal codes and facial expressions. I also have hard time undersrtanding people with accents at time, but I have gotten much better at this. The thing that sucks most about this is that I know that even close friends and family tend to look down on me just a little bit. They make off comments like "oh, if Pamela can do it, than means anyone can." or "It must be simple if pamela understood it." I had a I.E.P while in school and sometimes my friends would make off comments about how I must have it so easy. Some of my friends didin't really respect me on some level. I remember one instance where I commented about how I stressed about making all the things I had to do for a project and my friend looked me in the eye told me "I don't want to hear, do you have any idea what I have to do being in the honors program. I assure you your stuff is like elementary stuff." I learned not to complain about acedemics to my friends.

I grew up believing I was just stupid and even to this day sometimes I still think I am just stupid. I know I am an intelligent person but when it comes to actually learning something it possiably the hardest thing for me to do. It takes me forever to learn something and truth be told I don't actually learn anything from a class room setting. I almost always get the majority of my learning from sitting one on one with some who instructs me step by step on how to do something. Thats how I actually figured out I wasn't genuanly dumb growing up, because I found that if I had someone giving me extra intruction and giving me enough time to understand (even if it meant several hours to learn something everyone else learned in one class hour) I could get it and be on par with the other people who learned in an regular class.

However, that is not always possiable. Sometimes I had teachers who would try to help one on one get very impatient with me and give up me before I could have a chance to get it. And worse sometimes being accused of "not paying attention" or "being lazy" or I was wasting their time "pretending to be stupid." That really did something to me because I always thought "if you think I'm pretending to be stupid, does that mean if I genuanily don't get it I am stupid?" I didn't know what was worse getting yelled at and punished because they thought I was not trying or being lazy or the them actually believing I was stupid. I always hated the moment where their expression kind of freezes when they realized I genunienly was not understanding the concepts. And then the tight expression and patronizing manner they would have afterwards explaining "oh, it's ok. If you don't understand that doesn't really make you dumb." And when I pointed out that a few minutes ago when they thought I was pretending "to be stupid/dumb" that they said if I didin't I was dumb. Sometimes they would get angry and turn it around on me saying "if you think your stupid then everyone will think you are." I had one teacher who tried her hardest to get me out of her class room in elementary school because she didn't want to deal with me.

I hate how my learning disablity makes me inflexiable. I'm very routine oriented and if I get of my routine it screws me up. For example I tend to simplfying things into a series of steps to be acomplished to reach the completion. If I miss a step it doesn't completely throw me but people have commented that I have a moment of pause where I'm processing this new unexpectede change. Sometimes no one notices this slight pause on my part and others do. I also have crappy short term memory. I can litterly forget where I put somthing almost imediately after I set it down.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. That's pretty tough, Sage. I would go crazy if I had something like that, and it's horrible how teachers responded to you at times, too. But I'm glad you're brave enough to share it, and that's always a good thing.

[Leo656]

Yeah, that's the worst, when you're genuinely trying your best at something and "They" don't seem to "get it". Like a person WANTS to be confused or something. :ohwell:

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly, and the fact that they figured you were just lazy and pretending to have trouble. No one just pretends to have trouble when it comes to things, and the way those teachers handled it was awful.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

I keep coming back to this thread and everytime I have the intention of writing in it I lose my nerve. But after reading about 3 pages of people not only revealing their disablities but also bearing the darker areas of their soul i'm just gonna dive in.

Isn't it sort of liberating to let it out. And there's always a chance your words will give someone else some comfort! It's so sad that educators that are there to help students to their best can be so dense on the fact that everyone learns differently. And if someone was lazy, then why do they keep trying to learn... some teachers (like many doctors I know) shouldn't be allowed to act the way they do. As I learned years ago, just because you have a degree, doesn't mean you aren't an idiot! I'm glad to hear that you muscled through it anyhow. Congrats on not listening to them!

[blindturtle02]

I can tell you guys some pretty horrifying stuff about idiotic teachers being given degrees. There are some that are training up-coming teachers who have no business teaching. We had to do quite a bit related to the special education field in my teachers' certification course last semester. One person with a recently acquired doctorate compared students with severe mental disabilities to those little bobblehead dogs people used to put on their dashboards back in the 50's or so. She was saying you could train those guys to nod after everything that is said in order to make it appear as if they're understanding topics. And get this, this person was pretty high up in the special education field. I was very disgusted when hearing this. It wasn't amusing at all. I think she started that class period off by telling us this sob story about no students being left out of the education experience. I hope it eventually comes back to bite her in the butt. She's about the same age as my parents, but she doesn't deserve such a degree in my opinion. I hope to go into the special education field eventually. Possibly after teaching in a regular classroom for a few years. There need to be teachers out there who practice what they preach. So yeah, it's amazing who they give degrees to these days.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I can tell you guys some pretty horrifying stuff about idiotic teachers being given degrees. There are some that are training up-coming teachers who have no business teaching. One compared students with severe mental disabilities to those little bobblehead dogs people used to put on their dashboards back in the 50's or so. She even laughed about it. She was saying you could train those guys to nod after everything that is said in order to make it appear as if they're understanding topics. And get this, this person was pretty high up in the special education field. I was very disgusted when hearing this. It wasn't amusing at all. I think she started that class period off by telling us this sob story about no students being left out of the education experience. I hope it eventually comes back to bite her in the butt.

That's just wrong on so many levels. This isn't something that people can just shrug off. It's almost as though she has a sick twisted sense that those people WANT to be like that. Someone really needs to slap her in the face right now. In many ways, i actually prefer disabled people over other people. One of the reasons being that they don't have this kind of thing in their minds. She should have gotten fired for that. Really awful.

[blindturtle02]

Well, my mom always says,"You reap what you sow." Some day someone will find her out.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Well, my mom always says,"You reap what you sow." Some day someone will find her out.

Truer words may never be spoken. Pity that students will be hurt by her words/teachings in the meantime.

The biggest problem with school districts IMO is that they are governed by people that aren't teachers (or at least aren't teaching in the schools currently) and as such, can't be aware of the current needs/issues with students or teachers. I've seen the cascade effect this has. School boards and superintendents have different goals and priorities, they are concerned with budgets, changing populations and how that impacts the different schools, approving/denying changes, etc. and while those are necessary to keeping things working smoothly, they often forget about how the ground level people are affected- students or teachers. Many school boards get it right, but sadly many are completely unaware of problems or don't want to be aware.

My mom got laid off because she made the most money in the Special Ed department- never mind she was doing 3 different peoples' jobs and that she made sure that each Special Ed teacher on each campus had what they needed to do their jobs and made sure every kid was getting what they needed. The new Director laid off most of the Special Ed dept because it made financial sense. She got a raise. She has since moved on to do it to another school district. That school now has a special ed dept that is almost completely gone, kids are going without the services they need, teachers are ill-equipt and parents are frustrated. But hey, the school saved so much money! Public schools aren't about being profitable, they are about educating kids. I firmly believe it is just plain wrong for a Superintendent to get a big fat raise (after already making 6-figures) after eliminating tons of teaching positions. I want to go all Arrow on them: "Superintendent, you have failed your school district!" And I'm not even in school anymore... I grieve for the youth of today.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You guys are all amazing. I don't "know" that I have any disabilities, but over the last couple of years I've begun to suspect I may be slightly dyslexic- and someone earlier brought up the mathematical type of dyslexia that sounds suspiciously like the problem I had all through school. I work in fast food (not a glamorous or "lucrative" job, I know, but it pays the bills and keeps us fed and a roof over us) and on occasion, I have problems with reversing or mixing up numbers on totals, remembering even simple math for counting change (on those times when someone hands me a bill, I punch in the amount and start to give them change- and THEN they tell me they have the change....) and similar instances. When I type, I often find that after I've written a bit, I'll look up and discover that I've switched letters in at least a half-dozen words, or run them together, without ever noticing it while writing it. I have to go back and proof EVERYTHING I type now, and that didn't used to be the case. Is there such a thing as adult-dyslexia? I've never heard of it occurring later in life, but it seems the older I get, the worse this problem is. It crops up when I speak or read something out loud, as well.

On a more "serious" note, my husband is diabetic, which he has been since he was 3. Having had It for so long, he has recently begun to have some serious side-effects, such as neuropathy in his feet, wounds that don't heal properly- in fact, one such very recently resulted in the amputation of half of his left foot after a blister on it developed MRSA- and other problems. He has episodes of VERY low blood sugar more and more, though most of the recent once were caused by the hospital's diabetic specialist changing his insulin to a new type that works much faster and for a shorter time- meaning that he had to take it much more often, but it worked too fast for his food intake to balance it! Some doctors really ARE idiots- if something works, DON'T F*** WITH IT!

I'm really sorry to hear about your relationship problems, LEO, but I can honestly say that not ALL relationships are like that. I was lucky with mine. Married to the same man for 13+ years, together for over 16, and we are still happy together. We met in high school (just friends then) but didn't get together until about a year after we graduated. There have been many trying times (both out of work at the same time more than once, living with my parents for a year and a half just a couple of years ago after having been independent for years, his medical problems, spending three years living with my grandmother and helping take care of three younger cousins, etc), but we've weathered them all.

My own parents have never seemed happy together, mainly due to my step-father (since I was three, and only "dad" I've ever known) being an a$$. He's anti-social, has anger-management issues, and has been abusive in the past (I went through twelve weeks of therapy when I was 12- long story, but it amounts to him doing things that were WAY immoral). He has never respected me or my mother, views women in general as "less important" or simply there to take care of the home and cook, (mysoganist, I think) and treats other people with disrespect, indifference, or outright contempt- especially my husband. He has even (I kid you not) offered to send me through college if I would move back home and LEAVE my mate. Who is a far better man than he is, BTW. He has at various times called me derogatory names, implied I was stupid, and taken out his own frustrations on me when growing up. He looks down on my own field of work, even though he himself has always had jobs basically running machines or more recently driving trucks. And he has consistently brushed off every accomplishment or aspiration I've ever had.

I say this not for sympathy, but to show that yes, we CAN break the kind of behavioral trends of our parents. My husband, while always having worked the same kind of low-earning jobs as myself, is far more compassionate, caring, considerate, and well-liked by those around him than my "dad" has ever been. It's sad when I can talk to his(my step-father's) own family and co-workers (Some of whom are also my customers at my job- lesson to be learned, service workers get around when it comes to knowing things about the people in a town!) and they tell me they don't like being around him! But somehow, I've managed to keep from marrying the same kind of jerk that he has been. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it CAN be done, we just have to look at what is worst in those relationships of our parents, and learn to avoid those kinds of destructive habits and traits. I made it a point whiles still growing up that I would never tolerate anyone who would treat me the way he treats people- especially my mother and me.

[Storm Eagle]

I keep coming back to this thread and everytime I have the intention of writing in it I lose my nerve. But after reading about 3 pages of people not only revealing their disablities but also bearing the darker areas of their soul i'm just gonna dive in.

I have a learning disablity called an information processing disorder, and boy does it affect me in almost every area of my life. It means I have a disablity with problem solving and my calculation skills are very poor. This affected me growing up because I trouble interperting nonverbal codes and facial expressions. I also have hard time undersrtanding people with accents at time, but I have gotten much better at this. The thing that sucks most about this is that I know that even close friends and family tend to look down on me just a little bit. They make off comments like "oh, if Pamela can do it, than means anyone can." or "It must be simple if pamela understood it." I had a I.E.P while in school and sometimes my friends would make off comments about how I must have it so easy. Some of my friends didin't really respect me on some level. I remember one instance where I commented about how I stressed about making all the things I had to do for a project and my friend looked me in the eye told me "I don't want to hear, do you have any idea what I have to do being in the honors program. I assure you your stuff is like elementary stuff." I learned not to complain about acedemics to my friends.

I grew up believing I was just stupid and even to this day sometimes I still think I am just stupid. I know I am an intelligent person but when it comes to actually learning something it possiably the hardest thing for me to do. It takes me forever to learn something and truth be told I don't actually learn anything from a class room setting. I almost always get the majority of my learning from sitting one on one with some who instructs me step by step on how to do something. Thats how I actually figured out I wasn't genuanly dumb growing up, because I found that if I had someone giving me extra intruction and giving me enough time to understand (even if it meant several hours to learn something everyone else learned in one class hour) I could get it and be on par with the other people who learned in an regular class.

However, that is not always possiable. Sometimes I had teachers who would try to help one on one get very impatient with me and give up me before I could have a chance to get it. And worse sometimes being accused of "not paying attention" or "being lazy" or I was wasting their time "pretending to be stupid." That really did something to me because I always thought "if you think I'm pretending to be stupid, does that mean if I genuanily don't get it I am stupid?" I didn't know what was worse getting yelled at and punished because they thought I was not trying or being lazy or the them actually believing I was stupid. I always hated the moment where their expression kind of freezes when they realized I genunienly was not understanding the concepts. And then the tight expression and patronizing manner they would have afterwards explaining "oh, it's ok. If you don't understand that doesn't really make you dumb." And when I pointed out that a few minutes ago when they thought I was pretending "to be stupid/dumb" that they said if I didin't I was dumb. Sometimes they would get angry and turn it around on me saying "if you think your stupid then everyone will think you are." I had one teacher who tried her hardest to get me out of her class room in elementary school because she didn't want to deal with me.

I hate how my learning disablity makes me inflexiable. I'm very routine oriented and if I get of my routine it screws me up. For example I tend to simplfying things into a series of steps to be acomplished to reach the completion. If I miss a step it doesn't completely throw me but people have commented that I have a moment of pause where I'm processing this new unexpectede change. Sometimes no one notices this slight pause on my part and others do. I also have crappy short term memory. I can litterly forget where I put somthing almost imediately after I set it down.

I don't know if I'd say that I have what you have, although I have experienced similar things all throughout my life.

There would be times where I'd have trouble in class, where I might answer a question wrong. Then others would laugh and tell me I'm stupid. The more they said it, I started to get concerned that it might be true.

I don't remember this, but a while back, my mother told me that when I was in kindergarten, the teacher told her about how I'd always finish my work before everyone else, and even seemed to have a grasp on the material. So it's too bad that I couldn't have been that great throughout all my years of school. When I was 11, I was made to take this test somewhere that I believe was supposed to test my intelligence. The test proved that I was indeed smart. So if I might have been having trouble with something in school, perhaps it just had to do with the way it's explained. So even if I am actually smart, I apparently still end up doing things that say otherwise. All in all, it's basically that **** happens, and it's both inconvenient and annoying.

I've also been accused of acting as though I'm not smart if I really am. There were times where I'd be asked to help someone with something, and I'd have to tell them that I'm not the right person to ask, since I don't have the knowledge on what they're doing in order to be able to assist them. Then there would be times where I'm doing something and I actually appear to be capable of doing it. That's when I'd be accused of acting like I'm incompetent. It's just that there are some things that I'm good at, and there are some things that I'm not good at. I know myself. I know my abilities. So if I know that there's something I can do well, then I'm happy to do it. Otherwise, I'd have to suggest that the person go to someone else. I mean, you don't go to your dentist to deal with you if you've got a cataract.

[BubblyShell22]

I can tell you guys some pretty horrifying stuff about idiotic teachers being given degrees. There are some that are training up-coming teachers who have no business teaching. We had to do quite a bit related to the special education field in my teachers' certification course last semester. One person with a recently acquired doctorate compared students with severe mental disabilities to those little bobblehead dogs people used to put on their dashboards back in the 50's or so. She was saying you could train those guys to nod after everything that is said in order to make it appear as if they're understanding topics. And get this, this person was pretty high up in the special education field. I was very disgusted when hearing this. It wasn't amusing at all. I think she started that class period off by telling us this sob story about no students being left out of the education experience. I hope it eventually comes back to bite her in the butt. She's about the same age as my parents, but she doesn't deserve such a degree in my opinion. I hope to go into the special education field eventually. Possibly after teaching in a regular classroom for a few years. There need to be teachers out there who practice what they preach. So yeah, it's amazing who they give degrees to these days.

Whoa, that is messed up. Yeah, it's sad that most teachers these days don't even have a teaching degree and only have to take a test to do it. My sis found that out while subbing at a school, and she said she wants to do it. I told her it was a mistake and that she'd be better off taking classes first before actually taking that test as there's a lot that goes into teaching these days. I wouldn't do it at all even though my sis said I'd be qualified to do it.

[blindturtle02]

Truer words may never be spoken. Pity that students will be hurt by her words/teachings in the meantime.

The biggest problem with school districts IMO is that they are governed by people that aren't teachers (or at least aren't teaching in the schools currently) and as such, can't be aware of the current needs/issues with students or teachers. I've seen the cascade effect this has. School boards and superintendents have different goals and priorities, they are concerned with budgets, changing populations and how that impacts the different schools, approving/denying changes, etc. and while those are necessary to keeping things working smoothly, they often forget about how the ground level people are affected- students or teachers. Many school boards get it right, but sadly many are completely unaware of problems or don't want to be aware.

My mom got laid off because she made the most money in the Special Ed department- never mind she was doing 3 different peoples' jobs and that she made sure that each Special Ed teacher on each campus had what they needed to do their jobs and made sure every kid was getting what they needed. The new Director laid off most of the Special Ed dept because it made financial sense. She got a raise. She has since moved on to do it to another school district. That school now has a special ed dept that is almost completely gone, kids are going without the services they need, teachers are ill-equipt and parents are frustrated. But hey, the school saved so much money! Public schools aren't about being profitable, they are about educating kids. I firmly believe it is just plain wrong for a Superintendent to get a big fat raise (after already making 6-figures) after eliminating tons of teaching positions. I want to go all Arrow on them: "Superintendent, you have failed your school district!" And I'm not even in school anymore... I grieve for the youth of today.

My fiancé's parents say the exact same thing pertaining to folks on the school board. They've been responsible for some very ridiculous dicisions around here. Funny you mentioned going Arrow. Whenever I watch that show, I always think of him going after corrupt individuals in the education field. It really would be terrific if such individuals were found out and made to pay back all the money they've squandered over the years. Kids with disabilities in our district are really hurting because of some very very corrupt workers in our Special Ed dept. Our district has had more than a few lawsuits slapped on them by parents of blind children as well as those with other disabilities. I'm not sure how all that's going as of Oct 2013 but I hope justice wins the day.

[Davetello]

Reading through all those rants on the previous pages has made me roll my eyes. Jesus.



Let's be fair here, you're probably the last person on this site who should be rolling his eyes at anyone's posts.

[Davetello]

Sh*t, if I hadn't decided to take an unrelated internet break for a few days, I damn sure would've if I'd been around to read the last 4 pages. Holy f***. Glad I missed that.




And what exactly was wrong with it? I said that I dislike those who put down disabled people, unaware that the word 'spaz' wasn't intended in your country as it is in mine. This led to a debate about the actual connotations of the word - a debate which was somewhat pedantic in retrospect but was still passionately argued from both perspectives. Then there was a bit of debate about the evils of Western society, which is a view I'm pretty sure you share. I insulted your country yes, but I insulted my own too. I think we both grew up in disgusting, hypocritical countries governed by bloodthirsty madmen who have played a large part in destroying poorer parts of the world. So what? It's a view many people share. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel anyway. Therefore, if you could tell me what you found so cringeworthy about the debate, other than possibly the pedantry and a refusal from both parties to back down, that'd be great.

It was a decent debate, other than Jester somewhat sidestepping my point at times.

If you were British you'd understand why the word 'spaz' is treated with disdain here. It was a decent discussion. I generally consider you a very good poster, and not the type to make snide comments without elaborating on why. That's the sort of sh!t you rightly condemn other posters for.

I've never had these sort of confrontations on any other forum I've been a member of...

HOWEVER, in other news, I've read through the entire thread and many of you people are an inspiration. This is probably the best and most important thread on the entire forum (other than myself and Jester's debate).

[Leo656]

Ah, man, I can't honestly even remember. Possibly half-drunk? I wasn't singling anybody out, or anything, from what I remember I was just gobsmacked that whole back-and-forth went on for so long. In any case, I'm over it.

And I'm Irish, so I hate a little of everybody regardless of where they hail from. :tgrin:

[Davetello]

Ah, man, I can't honestly even remember. Possibly half-drunk? I wasn't singling anybody out, or anything, from what I remember I was just gobsmacked that whole back-and-forth went on for so long. In any case, I'm over it.

And I'm Irish, so I hate a little of everybody regardless of where they hail from. :tgrin:

It felt like you were having a go at me, that's all. You're not the only one who suffers from paranoia :) Perhaps I should stop taking things as personal attacks.

Other than that, I enjoyed reading your post, as well as those of others such as Dawntello, blindturtle etc. I knew a blind person on a university forum and she was one of the best students there. It's great to see that physical and mental barriers can be overcome.

I also understand your point about suicide, as controversial as it may be. I often wonder why people are so desperate for others to live, why people make a career of talking people out of suicide. It probably should be a choice, as you're right that life is essentially mundane, tedious and overly difficult for most people. I suppose suicide carries such negative connotations because if it didn't we'd probably have an epidemic on our hands. The misguided sense of shame of feeling suicidal is actually enough to stop some people.

For me personally, I have suffered from existential crises. Most things in life seems too trivial to me relative to the bigger picture, although over the last few years I've managed to simply take things as they are and enjoy the smaller things in life. I also despise my own hypocrisy in enjoying things created in the very Western culture I abhor. I don't particularly lack self-esteem, but I am part of the mental health service and have been since I was 19. It's really hampered my 'prospects' career-wise but there's no point in carrying bitterness over it - it just leads to circular negative feelings. I could elaborate further but I feel I've said enough for now. I was just inspired to say something as everyone else had the good grace to open themselves up.

[Leo656]

"The unexamined life is not worth living." I can't remember who said that.

And if I have a poke at someone I'm usually more blatant about it than that. :lol:

Things are going pretty well for me lately, so it's pretty weird looking back at something I wrote when I was out of sorts like that. I don't remember it very well at all. I think most people have a defense mechanism that blocks out or wipes over stuff like that so they don't go crazy.

[Davetello]

"The unexamined life is not worth living." I can't remember who said that.

And if I have a poke at someone I'm usually more blatant about it than that. :lol:

Things are going pretty well for me lately, so it's pretty weird looking back at something I wrote when I was out of sorts like that. I don't remember it very well at all. I think most people have a defense mechanism that blocks out or wipes over stuff like that so they don't go crazy.

It's fine mate. As I say, I take things the wrong way and lash out at others sometimes too (though not often strangers, more family members and friends). And that quote is spot on.

I'm glad you're doing better at the moment - it's a long, hard slog indeed. Every day and week blurs into the next and nothing ground-breaking ever seems to happen.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I also despise my own hypocrisy in enjoying things created in the very Western culture I abhor.

Funny you should say that. An Indian writer recalled how, back in the 1960's, the hippies of the era told him how they thought India was really cool. His response was to ask what was so cool about it. The poverty? The hopelessness? Arranged marriages?

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

[BubblyShell22]

I can see why some people aren't fans of America, and it's getting worse with everything that's happened, so I don't care if people insult it or not. Heck, I live in America, and there are times where I really despise this country when I used to be so proud to live here. Most of that though is due to politics, so Dave, if you want to insult America, I won't be offended by it one bit.

And congrats to you, Dave, for being brave enough to share a little of your own disability. That's what this thread's for, and I'm glad you were able to open up a little.

[Davetello]

Funny you should say that. An Indian writer recalled how, back in the 1960's, the hippies of the era told him how they thought India was really cool. His response was to ask what was so cool about it. The poverty? The hopelessness? Arranged marriages?

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

Nah, I see your point mate. Other parts of the world have their problems too, we know that. I'm not saying I think the grass is greener. However, the west clearly exploits developing nations and that sort of thing really gets to me more than anything. The west is still the best place to live on the planet, but a large part of that is exactly because of said exploitation. As one historic example, look into counter-factual claims of the Atlantic slave trade.

I can see why some people aren't fans of America, and it's getting worse with everything that's happened, so I don't care if people insult it or not. Heck, I live in America, and there are times where I really despise this country when I used to be so proud to live here. Most of that though is due to politics, so Dave, if you want to insult America, I won't be offended by it one bit.

And congrats to you, Dave, for being brave enough to share a little of your own disability. That's what this thread's for, and I'm glad you were able to open up a little.

I don't mean to constantly take pops at the States. As I've said I feel exactly the same about Britain. Both countries have a lot of problems at both micro and macro levels, and are partly responsible for the state the world is in right now.

Thanks. I didn't really wanna say anything but seeing as everyone else was opening up, I felt I would too.:)

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Nah, I see your point mate. Other parts of the world have their problems too, we know that. I'm not saying I think the grass is greener. However, the west clearly exploits developing nations and that sort of thing really gets to me more than anything. The west is still the best place to live on the planet, but a large part of that is exactly because of said exploitation. As one historic example, look into counter-factual claims of the Atlantic slave trade.

I've heard that too, but it's an old wive's tale, certainly nowadays when Western nations have long since lost control over their former colonies. Even in Africa and Asia, people realize that their economic and political problems can no longer be blamed on colonialism many decades after it ended.

And BTW, guess who is practicing slavery and the slave trade nowadays? The Mideast nations. And only a small part of their populations are wealthy.

[Davetello]

I've heard that too, but it's an old wive's tale, certainly nowadays when Western nations have long since lost control over their former colonies. Even in Africa and Asia, people realize that their economic and political problems can no longer be blamed on colonialism many decades after it ended.

And BTW, guess who is practicing slavery and the slave trade nowadays? The Mideast nations. And only a small part of their populations are wealthy.

Like I said, it's counter-factual. Africa is in a state partly because of the loss of so many people to Europe and the USA during the slave trade, and the effects linger until now. Of course, it's not black and white and some of their issues are their own responsibility too, but your view seems dangerously close to absolving the west of all blame. Your first paragraph seems like a colonial superiority complex; it's the sort of thing I hear often from Brits who believe that the United Kingdom is the greatest country on the planet and has never done anything shameful in its history. You know, the sort who are proud of the empire rather than ashamed. You've said it in a more civilised manner but there are certain undertones to your first paragraph which make me feel uncomfortable.

I can't really disagree with your second paragraph, and never have. However, 'they're doing it now too, and are just as bad as we were if not worse' isn't really an argument.

Are you a big supporter of the American military?

I'm not saying that the UK, USA etc are 100% to blame for the world's woes, but let's be honest here - we both have a pretty nasty track record and trying to hold Africa fully accountable for its issues is poor form given that we left it miles behind in the first place and hence are largely to blame for its lack of development.

[DarkLightDragon]

I have a mild case of Asperger's that I was diagnosed I believe around kindergarten or 2nd grade.

While it doesn't hinder me all that much since I can open up and talk to people and manage to leave a good impression on people, I just been one to prefer being alone and prevent any awkwardness that follows me around. It also helps that the people I feel like talking to share my common interests hence why I decided to join a couple years back. This forum isn't the only place I go to, but for a while, it was the forum I would visit the least.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Like I said, it's counter-factual. Africa is in a state partly because of the loss of so many people to Europe and the USA during the slave trade, and the effects linger until now. Of course, it's not black and white and some of their issues are their own responsibility too, but your view seems dangerously close to absolving the west of all blame. Your first paragraph seems like a colonial superiority complex; it's the sort of thing I hear often from Brits who believe that the United Kingdom is the greatest country on the planet and has never done anything shameful in its history. You know, the sort who are proud of the empire rather than ashamed. You've said it in a more civilised manner but there are certain undertones to your first paragraph which make me feel uncomfortable.

I can't really disagree with your second paragraph, and never have. However, 'they're doing it now too, and are just as bad as we were if not worse' isn't really an argument.

Are you a big supporter of the American military?

I'm not saying that the UK, USA etc are 100% to blame for the world's woes, but let's be honest here - we both have a pretty nasty track record and trying to hold Africa fully accountable for its issues is poor form given that we left it miles behind in the first place and hence are largely to blame for its lack of development.

I don't agree. Asian as well as African nations were colonized too, and not just by Westerners. Look at how well China is doing after centuries of colonialism by various powers-or South Korea, for that matter.

It's easy to scapegoat the West for all the world's problems. But it's fallacious and not supported by facts by those who are willing to actually look for them. Certainly Asia and Africa were not nice places before the colonial era.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I should also add that I did take one college course in Asian history and one in Latin American history (which I agree should be taught in lower grades too), and I've learned that many of the post colonial problem facing these nations were as much the result of post colonial leaders' corruption or stupidity as any aftereffects of colonialism. Example: in India, inoculating the population against diseases inadvertently caused the nation's population to explode because the death rate was reduced without slowing the birth rate.

[BubblyShell22]

I have a mild case of Asperger's that I was diagnosed I believe around kindergarten or 2nd grade.

While it doesn't hinder me all that much since I can open up and talk to people and manage to leave a good impression on people, I just been one to prefer being alone and prevent any awkwardness that follows me around. It also helps that the people I feel like talking to share my common interests hence why I decided to join a couple years back. This forum isn't the only place I go to, but for a while, it was the forum I would visit the least.

Thanks for posting your story, DarkLightDragon. That's very brave of you to come out and talk about your disability. I'm glad it doesn't hinder you that much and that you're able to still function despite your disability.

[Davetello]

Type 97 - I don't disagree with everything you've said, in fact you've made some good points too (I've been having a similar debate elsewhere) but at the same time your apologist tone is making me really uncomfortable, as I said. I've had this debate many times before and it is very dodgy ground, so let's agree to disagree as I can see myself becoming extremely frustrated. I do have things I would like to say but I get the feeling you wouldn't acknowledge them anyway, so let's just wrap things up here.

[Davetello]

I should also add that I did take one college course in Asian history and one in Latin American history (which I agree should be taught in lower grades too), and I've learned that many of the post colonial problem facing these nations were as much the result of post colonial leaders' corruption or stupidity as any aftereffects of colonialism. Example: in India, inoculating the population against diseases inadvertently caused the nation's population to explode because the death rate was reduced without slowing the birth rate.

As an example of what I said above, I never disagreed with that. My issue is that you seem unwilling to hold the west even partially accountable for its actions.

"Certainly Asia and Africa were not nice places before the colonial era."

So because they weren't nice places a) it absolves colonialists of blame because they were in a mess anyway and b) presumes that they wouldn't have been able to develop without our dubious 'help'?

Your entire argument seems to be that they should be thankful to us for doing them a favour. If that is indeed your argument then I disagree with every fibre of my being.

But, again, let's not get into it.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

I have a mild case of Asperger's that I was diagnosed I believe around kindergarten or 2nd grade.

While it doesn't hinder me all that much since I can open up and talk to people and manage to leave a good impression on people, I just been one to prefer being alone and prevent any awkwardness that follows me around. It also helps that the people I feel like talking to share my common interests hence why I decided to join a couple years back. This forum isn't the only place I go to, but for a while, it was the forum I would visit the least.


Thanks for sharing. As I mentioned earlier (or elsewhere, I forget), my husband has Aspergers, but unfortunately he didn't find out until he was an adult. It is a blessing to find out much earlier in life so that you can learn why you act the way you act or why people don't react to what you perceive as normal the way you think they should. My husband has had a harder time of it trying to figure it all out as an adult when how he acts at work can follow him. Figuring it out as a school aged kid, while difficult, is easier to do. Most people don't remember half of what their classmates did in school anyway once you're in the real world. Life is a learning process no matter who you are, so kudos to you for pressing forward to enjoy your life without worrying about people judging you. Glad to get to know you better! We're all the same here anyway- Turtle fans!

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

As an example of what I said above, I never disagreed with that. My issue is that you seem unwilling to hold the west even partially accountable for its actions.

"Certainly Asia and Africa were not nice places before the colonial era."

So because they weren't nice places a) it absolves colonialists of blame because they were in a mess anyway and b) presumes that they wouldn't have been able to develop without our dubious 'help'?

Your entire argument seems to be that they should be thankful to us for doing them a favour. If that is indeed your argument then I disagree with every fibre of my being.

But, again, let's not get into it.

I won't, except to say that I never said that colonialism was benign. Far from it. But it is equally bad to say that the West is responsible for all the Third World's problems. Mao Zedong, after all, was far more murderous toward the Chinese people than the Japanese or any Western colonialists were-even though past colonial nations are still unpopular in China.

[Davetello]

I won't, except to say that I never said that colonialism was benign. Far from it. But it is equally bad to say that the West is responsible for all the Third World's problems. Mao Zedong, after all, was far more murderous toward the Chinese people than the Japanese or any Western colonialists were-even though past colonial nations are still unpopular in China.

Indeed. However, I don't believe that the west is fully responsible for the developing world's ills. As with most things, it's not black and white, and there are faults on both sides. However, it cannot be denied that what we did was self-serving and evil, even if it ultimately had unintentional positive consequences. However, those were a by-product of less than noble intentions.

My entire issue was that you seemed to be attempting to remove all responsiblity from the west. You seem like a reflective sort of guy so I think we both know that that wouldn't be the correct stance to take.

We can extrapolate all manner of theories and deductions from the actions of our ancestors, and we can try to excuse their actions with the usual arguments ('it was a different time, people weren't as civilised and it's easy to place guilt with the benefit of a contemporary lens' etc) but we played our part in causing untold suffering to millions of people and, whilst we have aided former colonies in some ways, we've also constrained them in others.

That's my only point, that things aren't black and white. I won't deny that I think the British empire - for example - was evil, but I also don't deny that some good came out of it, ironically.

The genocidal tendencies of power-mad dictators is something I'm in agreement with, but again, two wrongs don't make a right.

Anyway, it's good to talk to someone else who's passionate about such subjects, even if we have butted heads.

EDIT: my original comment regarding despising western culture was more about modern media networks and attempts at censorship than historical accounts of slavery or colonialism, by the way (although it is all interconnected). Just to make that clear.

[Storm Eagle]

Thanks for sharing. As I mentioned earlier (or elsewhere, I forget), my husband has Aspergers, but unfortunately he didn't find out until he was an adult. It is a blessing to find out much earlier in life so that you can learn why you act the way you act or why people don't react to what you perceive as normal the way you think they should. My husband has had a harder time of it trying to figure it all out as an adult when how he acts at work can follow him. Figuring it out as a school aged kid, while difficult, is easier to do. Most people don't remember half of what their classmates did in school anyway once you're in the real world. Life is a learning process no matter who you are, so kudos to you for pressing forward to enjoy your life without worrying about people judging you. Glad to get to know you better! We're all the same here anyway- Turtle fans!

A few years ago, I was diagnosed with having traits of Aspergers, although the psychologist said that she wouldn't necessarily say I have the syndrome point blank. I have a friend who does have Aspergers, and when I got to meet her, and I got to meet her parents. Some time later, my friend told me once that her mom suspects I may have it too, since she found me to be very polite, and says my friend and I appear to be very close.

Before that though, my mother suspected I might be autistic on some level because of some habits I had. She talked about how I keep lists of things, but I always thought I was just being creative, or trying to keep organized. I keep episode guides of some of the shows I watch with information such as premiere dates, and writer and director information. I also have notes on episode premieres that tell if an episode aired on a different date or time than usual, and when an episode might have premiered out of chronological order. I've seen other people from fandoms do such things, and they've proven to be helpful to others. So I just thought I'd make these kinds of notes for myself. I figured it would be fun.

I know not many people do these kinds of things, but then there are also those average ordinary everyday things that people might do, and others who don't understand them would be quick to suspect that they've got some sort of disorder, and that's not fair. It's as though everything the person does is wrong, or everything the person says is wrong. So how are they supposed to live their lives?

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

A few years ago, I was diagnosed with having traits of Aspergers, although the psychologist said that she wouldn't necessarily say I have the syndrome point blank. I have a friend who does have Aspergers, and when I got to meet her, and I got to meet her parents. Some time later, my friend told me once that her mom suspects I may have it too, since she found me to be very polite, and says my friend and I appear to be very close.

Before that though, my mother suspected I might be autistic on some level because of some habits I had. She talked about how I keep lists of things, but I always thought I was just being creative, or trying to keep organized. I keep episode guides of some of the shows I watch with information such as premiere dates, and writer and director information. I also have notes on episode premieres that tell if an episode aired on a different date or time than usual, and when an episode might have premiered out of chronological order. I've seen other people from fandoms do such things, and they've proven to be helpful to others. So I just thought I'd make these kinds of notes for myself. I figured it would be fun.

I know not many people do these kinds of things, but then there are also those average ordinary everyday things that people might do, and others who don't understand them would be quick to suspect that they've got some sort of disorder, and that's not fair. It's as though everything the person does is wrong, or everything the person says is wrong. So how are they supposed to live their lives?

I know what you mean by your last statement. When my husband and I were engaged (before he got his diagnoses) he would do or say things that didn't make sense to others or if he got overwhelmed sensory-wise and basically have a meltdown while we were out shopping, he would just leave me there and drive off. On the surface this makes him look like a jerk, but once we understood that he had hit capacity as far as tolerating that much chaos and he was dealing the only way he knew how- leaving the triggers, driving around to calm down, it made sense. But people don't understand that if they don't understand the autistic/Aspergers spectrum. You can be "normal" with Aspergers tendencies, you can be very Aspergers borderline Autistic. You can be Austic and still be very high functioning and maybe even social in certain settings. Bottom line, you are who you are and if people can't accept that you didn't need them anyway. The good news is that Aspergers and Autism are becoming much more accepted and understood by the general public. If it weren't for people like you who make lists, people like me would just keep wondering, lol, because I wouldn't think to write that kind of stuff down, I'd just wonder about it later...

[Storm Eagle]

I know what you mean by your last statement. When my husband and I were engaged (before he got his diagnoses) he would do or say things that didn't make sense to others or if he got overwhelmed sensory-wise and basically have a meltdown while we were out shopping, he would just leave me there and drive off. On the surface this makes him look like a jerk, but once we understood that he had hit capacity as far as tolerating that much chaos and he was dealing the only way he knew how- leaving the triggers, driving around to calm down, it made sense. But people don't understand that if they don't understand the autistic/Aspergers spectrum. You can be "normal" with Aspergers tendencies, you can be very Aspergers borderline Autistic. You can be Austic and still be very high functioning and maybe even social in certain settings. Bottom line, you are who you are and if people can't accept that you didn't need them anyway. The good news is that Aspergers and Autism are becoming much more accepted and understood by the general public. If it weren't for people like you who make lists, people like me would just keep wondering, lol, because I wouldn't think to write that kind of stuff down, I'd just wonder about it later...

Right. Besides, even "normal" people do some rather questionable things that would make others scratch their heads. I'm probably "normal with Aspergers tendencies" and even I know that. Then I think to myself "and people think I'M weird".

It also baffles me how people make a big deal out of ordinary things, or think that someone else has some sort of problem if they do things slightly differently than they do. When I was in high school, a few people made a big deal out of never seeing me talk to any girls. It's kind of a double standard since there were a few other guys who didn't really go out of their way to talk to girls and nobody ever wondered about them. Besides, I did socialize with girls although I was no Casanova, and I didn't really make it a point to get into their pants or anything. I also dealt with this once some place where I used to work, where a guy actually wondered if I might be slow or retarded just because I never really talked to our female co-workers. Not that it's anyone's business on why I never really did, but I guess I just didn't feel an obligation to. It's just something that didn't happen. Besides, they could have spoken to me, right?

[Kas]

Well, since I was 11 more or less, I have been afflicted with social anxiety, I wasn't able to have a conversation with my classmates, which helped me to become a target of bullying by all my classmates. At 13 I was diagnosed with depression and began to be under therapy. The situation improved when I made friends at 15 with some boys and girls from my town by the internet. I felt so alone (I had no friends) so I had no choice but to remedy the problem. Since then, I've met people who I appreciate, and thanks to which I feel so loved. I spent two years without being under therapy until, at age 16, I had another attack of depression and anxiety. I tried to overcome the problem myself, but each time was getting worse. Gradually I was isolating myself from my beloved ones, I started having insomnia and lost weight to dangerous levels. At 18 I started to go to a psychiatrist and he prescribed me antidepressants, which I have been consuming until today. I have recently put myself under psychological therapy, which has helped me to understand better myself and my problems.

I could not tell if I suffer from a disorder or stuff, but since childhood I have always had a very strong temper, which my parents have always repressed making me feel guilty about my personality, so I have been living in fear of conflict with others, even to lose respect for myself only for not showing my true colors when people bothered me or hurt me. In short, I've been keeping my anger inside me for not getting angry with people who deserved it because I didn't want to become a bad person.

Of all the problems that I have, I think this is the most limitating one. On the other hand, I have a great difficulty concentrating, but thankfully I've never been very dumb so I could get good grades. Yes, I have many stories about teachers yelling at me to make me stop drawing or come back to my "astral travellings" xD.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Well, since I was 11 more or less, I have been afflicted with social anxiety, I wasn't able to have a conversation with my classmates, which helped me to become a target of bullying by all my classmates. At 13 I was diagnosed with depression and began to be under therapy. The situation improved when I made friends at 15 with some boys and girls from my town by the internet. I felt so alone (I had no friends) so I had no choice but to remedy the problem. Since then, I've met people who I appreciate, and thanks to which I feel so loved. I spent two years without being under therapy until, at age 16, I had another attack of depression and anxiety. I tried to overcome the problem myself, but each time was getting worse. Gradually I was isolating myself from my beloved ones, I started having insomnia and lost weight to dangerous levels. At 18 I started to go to a psychiatrist and he prescribed me antidepressants, which I have been consuming until today. I have recently put myself under psychological therapy, which has helped me to understand better myself and my problems.

I could not tell if I suffer from a disorder or stuff, but since childhood I have always had a very strong temper, which my parents have always repressed making me feel guilty about my personality, so I have been living in fear of conflict with others, even to lose respect for myself only for not showing my true colors when people bothered me or hurt me. In short, I've been keeping my anger inside me for not getting angry with people who deserved it because I didn't want to become a bad person.

Of all the problems that I have, I think this is the most limitating one. On the other hand, I have a great difficulty concentrating, but thankfully I've never been very dumb so I could get good grades. Yes, I have many stories about teachers yelling at me to make me stop drawing or come back to my "astral travellings" xD.

I'm so glad you felt like sharing. It is very hard growing up with anger issues, I did up through Jr. High school (I was always very, very shy) until I figured out how to make people laugh. Then I would get in trouble for disrupting class, but finally I learned that if you make the teacher laugh they can't get mad at you! :tlol: I think much of my anger growing up was the frustration of wanting friends but being so shy that I avoided them. I have worked very hard on my level of patience (I used to have none!) and not spending time worrying about things I can't change, coupled with not spending all my time pleasing everyone but myself. These were all very difficult lessons for me, for many years, but I am much happier and healthier for my troubles. I hope you can find what helps you to reach out to others in friendship and finding what things you can do that bring joy to your life!