Should they have casted a hispanic or black April for the film?

[CyberCubed]

With Japanese Shredder being recasted as a 57 year old white man named Eric Sachs, do you think April should have been casted as a hispanic or black woman?

In the early Mirage comics April has some dark skin in some of the issues, especially Tales #7. This led to confusion in the fandom to thinking April was intended to be black in the early Mirage issues when they were just starting. I think Eastman had a black girlfriend named April at the time and that's where the inspiration came from? However PL always saw April as white or whatever.

What do you think? If we have a white Shredder, is the world ready for a hispanic or black April?

[The Stryker]

Alien April.

[BabyTurtles]

I don't care as long as she acts like April I'll be OKAY~

:3 though I do like April's red hair XD it grew on me.

[electric_sheep]

judging by set photos, April would never dress like that, she is girl next door kinda type. Yes she is hot but she doesn't exaggerates it, make no mistake Megan Fox will suck all the likability from the character...

[The Stryker]

judging by set photos, April would never dress like that, she is girl next door kinda type. Yes she is hot but she doesn't exaggerates it, make no mistake Megan Fox will suck all the likability from the character...

Oh yeah. April would never dress like that.

Just cleavage revealing jumpsuits and belly tops.

[BabyTurtles]

Oh yeah. April would never dress like that.

Just cleavage revealing jumpsuits and belly tops.

XD heh heh

well 2012 April would never dress like that!!

[Powder]

Sure, why not? Considering it was vaguely implied in Mirage books, that makes it even better. It would suggest they did their homework a little bit.

[chrisdude]

I don't really care what race April is. But when I was pushed to choose my favorite pick to play the role, I did choose Zoe Saldana. There's no April moment from the past that I can't drop her into, and imagine her doing a great job. She may be too old, though.

[electric_sheep]

Oh yeah. April would never dress like that.

Just cleavage revealing jumpsuits and belly tops.

it was the eighties we all did some crazy things, but every other incarnation...

[sgtfbomb]

I could care less. For one thing, changing April's race isn't one and the same as changing the Shredder's ethnicity. Shredder's heritage is part of his character. His character is from Japan. So I can see why casting William Fichtner has so many scratching their heads, and rightfully so. That is odd. The change itself also implies that his character's history will have significant changes. (Fichtner is a good actor, but ethnicity aside, I still can't see him as the Shredder.)

Changing April's ethnicity means very little to her character's history. Nothing significant, at least. April was white, now she's black. Oh well. As long as the role is played by a charismatic actress, with energy and spunk, who cares? Chrisdude even had a fantastic suggestion. (Hell, I wish they'd cast her over Megan Fox! She can act, she's likable, and, IMO, she's even better looking -- you know, for those who care only about eye candy.)

The only people who would have any issue with this would be the same pig-headed morons who couldn't get past the gender changes from the more recent Battlestar Galactica. Who cares what they think?

[The Stryker]

it was the eighties we all did some crazy things, but every other incarnation...

The 2k3 design.

[CyberCubed]

It was actually the 2k3 series that started her red-head debut design.

Ever since the 2k3 April, April had red hair in the 4th movie, the IDW comics and Nick cartoon.

Before that she used to always have brown hair like in the movies, OT and Archie.

[sgtfbomb]

April had red hair in the first live action movie. :roll:

[InsaneZane]

When it comes to changing races in comics/movies/ cartoons etc....
I think they've covered enough, maybe even too much

Kingpin, Perry White, Nick Fury, Heimdall, Alicia (from Fantastic Four), let's not forget our own Baxter Stockman (turned white) or Burne/Burnadette Thompson
Some are somewhat unacceptable (such as Baxter, Heimdall and some would say Perry White)
but Some of these are completely acceptable since they are exceptional cases: changes that build upon the characters' backstories (ex. Kingpin from The Bronx; Alicia with The Puppetmaster as her father...)

I didnt list Spiderman and Green Lantern because they are different people all together (Miles Morales and John Stewart)
This is the way that it should be I think, if people want to introduce more black people into comics, I think it's better to make them different people with different backstories, don't just change a character people are familiar with... because no matter how much you say or believe that it doesn't matter... people are still going to find reasons to b!tch about it. Especially with characters that involve a specific location in origin such as Heimdall and pretty much all the characters in "The Last Racebender"... I mean"Airbender" Heimdall comes from Norse Mythology hence Norway , blah, blah , blah... white people... And don't get me started with the" Last Travesty-bender" movie.
I mean can you imagine a black Clark Kent?
Thats just weird...
Now a Black Superman would be cool... but make him someone else
If we continue to change pre-existing characters black (or otherwise) There won't be any white people left.... (I guess some people would consider that a good thing lol)

It's the same case for introducing gay characters.. I mean yes people change sexuality preferences, but why change characters like Selina Kyle, Barbara Gordon and Alan Scott who've been established as straight for decades when you can just create new characters that are gay?
If you're going to change a character gay or black or something else... make it someone that doesn't have an established history.

Example.. Vernon Fenwick; We never see him with a girl, there was one time he tried to trick April into giving him mouth to mouth which was probably the straightest thing we've ever seen him do... But usually he has conceded remarks about himself, he even wears pink and sounds kind of gay when he talks. I could see them making him gay for the new movie, for that matter we don't know enough about his past to care if he stays white either.

So in conclusion, Changing races (or sexuality) in a fictional universe can be acceptable under the right circumstances as long as it brings something to said character...
Now April O'Neil.... I cant really think of anything that demands that she stay white other than the fact that People have probably started to change too many characters' races. (Well that and her easily recognizable red/brown hair) Let's be honest, if people saw a black April... most people wouldn't recognize her as April...
Most People: "Who the $#!+ is that?!?!"

April doesn't need to be black when they can just bring in Angel as a more dominant Turtles ally...I kinda feel like Angel is mixed or something, but she could be black and people wouldn't p!ss and moan and b!tch like they would over their precious barbie doll, April because of what I mentioned earlier:
Perfect example: April vs Angel, Angel's backstory benefits from her not being white; April's doesn't. Angel isn't as much of an iconic character hence people wouldn't care about the racial change... unlike April.
Plus they already changed Burne black and into a female... so more than 1 character being changed is just too much (unless They're aiming for making a Tyler Perry's TMNT)(did I actually just say that? God help us)

As far as Shredder being white is concerned....I agree they shouldve cast a Japanese man,(for the record, I think that's almost as bad as the racebending in "Airbender" and I HATE that he's called Eric Sachs; I'm trying to be optimistic about that being an alias or something) but I'm pretty sure that still doent apply since he looked and talked white in the OT (which is odd since James Avery AND Kevin Michael Richardson are black people)
Anyway he wears a mask most of the time and he doesnt look Japanese... and the new movie is loosely based off of the OT.

[RaphAndDonnie]

I could care less. For one thing, changing April's race isn't one and the same as changing the Shredder's ethnicity. Shredder's heritage is part of his character. His character is from Japan. So I can see why casting William Fichtner has so many scratching their heads, and rightfully so. That is odd. The change itself also implies that his character's history will have significant changes. (Fichtner is a good actor, but ethnicity aside, I still can't see him as the Shredder.)

Changing April's ethnicity means very little to her character's history. Nothing significant, at least. April was white, now she's black. Oh well. As long as the role is played by a charismatic actress, with energy and spunk, who cares?

You took the words right out of my mouth. If April were Hispanic or black in, well any other incarnation, I would just grumble about it and move on. Its different when a character's ethnicity comes onto play with their motives, their back story and their life, as such with the case of the Shredder.

[BabyTurtles]

yea what InsaneZane said XD

I can take Angel if I wanted a hispanic or black character :3

but changing April just to appeal to certain people doesn't seem right...

[Andrew NDB]

I believe it's time for a transgendered April O'Neil.

[Welmanshire]

I believe it's time for a transgendered April O'Neil.

A Thai ladyboy, perhaps? Hell, why not get the ape from Dunstin Checks in to play her?

[chrisdude]

When it comes to changing races in comics/movies/ cartoons etc....
I think they've covered enough, maybe even too much

Kingpin, Perry White, Nick Fury, Heimdall, Alicia (from Fantastic Four), let's not forget our own Baxter Stockman (turned white) or Burne/Burnadette Thompson
Some are somewhat unacceptable (such as Baxter, Heimdall and some would say Perry White)
but Some of these are completely acceptable since they are exceptional cases: changes that build upon the characters' backstories (ex. Kingpin from The Bronx; Alicia with The Puppetmaster as her father...)

I didnt list Spiderman and Green Lantern because they are different people all together (Miles Morales and John Stewart)
This is the way that it should be I think, if people want to introduce more black people into comics, I think it's better to make them different people with different backstories, don't just change a character people are familiar with... because no matter how much you say or believe that it doesn't matter... people are still going to find reasons to b!tch about it. Especially with characters that involve a specific location in origin such as Heimdall and pretty much all the characters in "The Last Racebender"... I mean"Airbender" Heimdall comes from Norse Mythology hence Norway , blah, blah , blah... white people... And don't get me started with the" Last Travesty-bender" movie.
I mean can you imagine a black Clark Kent?
Thats just weird...
Now a Black Superman would be cool... but make him someone else
If we continue to change pre-existing characters black (or otherwise) There won't be any white people left.... (I guess some people would consider that a good thing lol)

It's the same case for introducing gay characters.. I mean yes people change sexuality preferences, but why change characters like Selina Kyle, Barbara Gordon and Alan Scott who've been established as straight for decades when you can just create new characters that are gay?
If you're going to change a character gay or black or something else... make it someone that doesn't have an established history.

Example.. Vernon Fenwick; We never see him with a girl, there was one time he tried to trick April into giving him mouth to mouth which was probably the straightest thing we've ever seen him do... But usually he has conceded remarks about himself, he even wears pink and sounds kind of gay when he talks. I could see them making him gay for the new movie, for that matter we don't know enough about his past to care if he stays white either.

So in conclusion, Changing races (or sexuality) in a fictional universe can be acceptable under the right circumstances as long as it brings something to said character...
Now April O'Neil.... I cant really think of anything that demands that she stay white other than the fact that People have probably started to change too many characters' races. (Well that and her easily recognizable red/brown hair) Let's be honest, if people saw a black April... most people wouldn't recognize her as April...
Most People: "Who the $#!+ is that?!?!"

April doesn't need to be black when they can just bring in Angel as a more dominant Turtles ally...I kinda feel like Angel is mixed or something, but she could be black and people wouldn't p!ss and moan and b!tch like they would over their precious barbie doll, April because of what I mentioned earlier:
Perfect example: April vs Angel, Angel's backstory benefits from her not being white; April's doesn't. Angel isn't as much of an iconic character hence people wouldn't care about the racial change... unlike April.
Plus they already changed Burne black and into a female... so more than 1 character being changed is just too much (unless They're aiming for making a Tyler Perry's TMNT)(did I actually just say that? God help us)

As far as Shredder being white is concerned....I agree they shouldve cast a Japanese man,(for the record, I think that's almost as bad as the racebending in "Airbender" and I HATE that he's called Eric Sachs; I'm trying to be optimistic about that being an alias or something) but I'm pretty sure that still doent apply since he looked and talked white in the OT (which is odd since James Avery AND Kevin Michael Richardson are black people)
Anyway he wears a mask most of the time and he doesnt look Japanese... and the new movie is loosely based off of the OT.Most of the time, it makes no difference at all, and very few people are bothered. The fact of the matter is, the main cast of characters in most of the biggest comic book franchises were created decades and decades ago, and the casts were often entirely white. Today, to members of minority races, and all-white cast sticks out like a sore thumb, and those movies are ignored. As shocking as it's been for my white friends to hear, black people really do notice, even from a trailer or television commercial, "Wow. That movie has no significant black characters." It's like walking into a party when you're the only person of your ethnicity. Those casts don't represent what America looks like, and it hurts the marketability of a film. So these changes are going to continue.

I guarantee you, Burne, or some other black character we don't know about yet, will make her way into the TMNT trailer.

[PApagreg]

As long it is not Megan Fox

[Commenter 42]

hunh, but, maybe that would read the wrong way?

Like, we are talking about casting a young woman who routinely goes into sewers filled with excrement to hang out with mutants. Maybe it would send an unintentionally wrong message? "No white girl would ever willingly go into the sewers with the filth, lets use a black girl instead." Said nobody, ever.

I don't care what universe you pluck her from, reporter, lab tech, antiques dealer, computer whiz - she still walks around ankle deep in human waste.

On the other hand, Zoe Saldana is Sexier than Megan Fox, so...

For my money, April was just plain crazy, and crazy is race-neutral.

Also, for the record, Mirage April was based on women who frequented the bars in and around Mirage Studios. The bars in question were Lesbian clubs, if that helps.

[Jester]

So...another thread for Cybercubed to continue his gripe fest about the "whitewashing of Shredder."

*yawn* Have we nothing better to do?

[InsaneZane]

yea what InsaneZane said XD
I can take Angel if I wanted a hispanic or black character :3
but changing April just to appeal to certain people doesn't seem right...
:thyper::tthumbsu::tthumbsu::tthumbsu::tthumbsu:

Most of the time, it makes no difference at all, and very few people are bothered. The fact of the matter is, the main cast of characters in most of the biggest comic book franchises were created decades and decades ago, and the casts were often entirely white. Today, to members of minority races, and all-white cast sticks out like a sore thumb, and those movies are ignored. As shocking as it's been for my white friends to hear, black people really do notice, even from a trailer or television commercial, "Wow. That movie has no significant black characters." It's like walking into a party when you're the only person of your ethnicity. Those casts don't represent what America looks like, and it hurts the marketability of a film. So these changes are going to continue.

I guarantee you, Burne, or some other black character we don't know about yet, will make her way into the TMNT trailer.

I agree, but lets just hope it's kept to just 1 character per franchise, shall we?

[Jester]

Oh, by the by, "casted" isn't a word. "Cast" is the word you were looking for, Cubed.

[chrisdude]

I agree, but lets just hope it's kept to just 1 character per franchise, shall we?Well, that makes it sound even more like tokenism.

If it were up to me, I would just leave race out of the casting decisions, unless it effected a characters story. April would be up for grabs to whatever actress fits the role. Shredder's race is a factor of his story, so changing it means changing his story. If people treated it that way, they wouldn't be changing people, they would just be not confining the characters of which race isn't a factor.

[Andrew NDB]

Like, we are talking about casting a young woman who routinely goes into sewers filled with excrement

I don't think there's any Turtle universe where the Turtles live in anything other than a drainage sewer, not a... sewage sewer.

[sgtfbomb]

So...another thread for Cybercubed to continue his gripe fest about the "whitewashing of Shredder."

*yawn* Have we nothing better to do?

You could just ignore him. :roll:

[Crabfight]

Should they have? No.

Could they have? Sure. Why not. Next question.

Who the hell cares what race/gender Burne is? Same goes for April. It'd be quite a stretch, and a potentially racist one, for anyone to connect any of April's characteristics to her race or ethnicity.

The whole Shredder thing is a bit more understandable, but I think that particular topic's been discussed to death.

[InsaneZane]

Well, that makes it sound even more like tokenism.

You misunderstand me, I mean if they are "changing" characters to just leave it 1 per franchise... by no means am I implying the character in question would be the ONLY character "representing" their race. That would be awkward and as you said tokenism.

[Metalwolf]

When it comes to changing races in comics/movies/ cartoons etc....
I think they've covered enough, maybe even too much

Kingpin, Perry White, Nick Fury, Heimdall, Alicia (from Fantastic Four), let's not forget our own Baxter Stockman (turned white) or Burne/Burnadette Thompson
Some are somewhat unacceptable (such as Baxter, Heimdall and some would say Perry White)
but Some of these are completely acceptable since they are exceptional cases: changes that build upon the characters' backstories (ex. Kingpin from The Bronx; Alicia with The Puppetmaster as her father...)

I didnt list Spiderman and Green Lantern because they are different people all together (Miles Morales and John Stewart)
This is the way that it should be I think, if people want to introduce more black people into comics, I think it's better to make them different people with different backstories, don't just change a character people are familiar with... because no matter how much you say or believe that it doesn't matter... people are still going to find reasons to b!tch about it. Especially with characters that involve a specific location in origin such as Heimdall and pretty much all the characters in "The Last Racebender"... I mean"Airbender" Heimdall comes from Norse Mythology hence Norway , blah, blah , blah... white people... And don't get me started with the" Last Travesty-bender" movie.
I mean can you imagine a black Clark Kent?
Thats just weird...
Now a Black Superman would be cool... but make him someone else
If we continue to change pre-existing characters black (or otherwise) There won't be any white people left.... (I guess some people would consider that a good thing lol)

It's the same case for introducing gay characters.. I mean yes people change sexuality preferences, but why change characters like Selina Kyle, Barbara Gordon and Alan Scott who've been established as straight for decades when you can just create new characters that are gay?
If you're going to change a character gay or black or something else... make it someone that doesn't have an established history.

Example.. Vernon Fenwick; We never see him with a girl, there was one time he tried to trick April into giving him mouth to mouth which was probably the straightest thing we've ever seen him do... But usually he has conceded remarks about himself, he even wears pink and sounds kind of gay when he talks. I could see them making him gay for the new movie, for that matter we don't know enough about his past to care if he stays white either.

So in conclusion, Changing races (or sexuality) in a fictional universe can be acceptable under the right circumstances as long as it brings something to said character...
Now April O'Neil.... I cant really think of anything that demands that she stay white other than the fact that People have probably started to change too many characters' races. (Well that and her easily recognizable red/brown hair) Let's be honest, if people saw a black April... most people wouldn't recognize her as April...
Most People: "Who the $#!+ is that?!?!"

April doesn't need to be black when they can just bring in Angel as a more dominant Turtles ally...I kinda feel like Angel is mixed or something, but she could be black and people wouldn't p!ss and moan and b!tch like they would over their precious barbie doll, April because of what I mentioned earlier:
Perfect example: April vs Angel, Angel's backstory benefits from her not being white; April's doesn't. Angel isn't as much of an iconic character hence people wouldn't care about the racial change... unlike April.
Plus they already changed Burne black and into a female... so more than 1 character being changed is just too much (unless They're aiming for making a Tyler Perry's TMNT)(did I actually just say that? God help us)

As far as Shredder being white is concerned....I agree they shouldve cast a Japanese man,(for the record, I think that's almost as bad as the racebending in "Airbender" and I HATE that he's called Eric Sachs; I'm trying to be optimistic about that being an alias or something) but I'm pretty sure that still doent apply since he looked and talked white in the OT (which is odd since James Avery AND Kevin Michael Richardson are black people)
Anyway he wears a mask most of the time and he doesnt look Japanese... and the new movie is loosely based off of the OT.I agree with what you said. It does get annoying, especially when a major character or well known comic book character gets changed just to show 'inclusiveness.' It shouldn't be that hard to come up with a new character for that stuff, unless the visual arts have become that bankrupt of ideas...

[InsaneZane]

I agree with what you said. It does get annoying, especially when a major character or well known comic book character gets changed just to show 'inclusiveness.' It shouldn't be that hard to come up with a new character for that stuff, unless the visual arts have become that bankrupt of ideas...

Yes, exactly

[Shark_Blade]

Slap her some yellow and I'm sold.

[Candy Kappa]

people are still going to find reasons to b!tch about it. Especially with characters that involve a specific location in origin such as Heimdall and pretty much all the characters in "The Last Racebender"... I mean"Airbender" Heimdall comes from Norse Mythology hence Norway , blah, blah , blah... white people...

Not really sure why all of the Norse gods needs to reflect the appearance of the people worshiping them.

Especially when Vikings where well aware of people with different skin color. Since they have traveled to America, Africa and the Middle East with their trading and raiding routes.

[Lord Nightwalker]

No. April isn't black or Hispanic. That would be like having wombats instead of turtles. Or an African James Bond. It's not broken, Don't screw with it.

[Commenter 42]

I don't think there's any Turtle universe where the Turtles live in anything other than a drainage sewer, not a... sewage sewer.

...

Really? is there a difference in New York sewers? The city is filthy!

The point was simple - I can't think of a single woman I know who would willingly, routinely, go into a Sewer.
In fact, most guys I know wouldn't either. It's gross and full of toxins, airborne and otherwise.

My second point, was that this entire thread is ridiculous. Every argument about Changing/not changing race is troll bait.

And if we're going to consider changing the race of a notable character in Comics, April O'neil is hardly the character I'd consider.

Wonder Woman would be a better place to start. An empowered role model, strong, fearless, etc etc.

April's always a whiny damsel in distress who clearly has no aversion to trenchfoot. Sometimes she's a butchy computer nerd (2k3), or a lonely assistant, or a skilled ninja warrior etc...

She's very two dimensional, as proven by her origin story in Mirage.
Sure, cast any ethnicity, but casting just to include another race that serves no purpose to the story, is no different than the stunt casting of Megan Fox.

It should actually be a question of "does this actor bring something to the role? Can she elevate a 2D character and make her come alive on the screen?
Can she do what Sam Jackson did for Nick Fury? What does this actor offer that the others don't?

Like I've said before, This is in no way a definitive TMNT film, so really, who cares? And even if it was the pinnacle of TMNTness, same question.

Maybe in the future we'll get our Avengers version of TMNT. For now, it's Sharktopus, and Shredder is a white dude.

Life goes on.

[Powder]

No. April isn't black or Hispanic. That would be like having wombats instead of turtles.

So blacks & Hispanics are a different species from whites? Wow. The ignorance of some people.

[Zachatello00]

I have to echo those who are more concerned with the strength of the actress (or actor, for that matter) playing the character. As long as race isn't an essential part of the character's essence. I couldn't for example, stomach the idea of a white guy playing Black Panther in an Avengers sequel.

But April would be perfectly fine, so long as whoever played her is skilled. I'm more put off by the white Shredder than the idea of a non-white April, as Shredder's Japanese origin is part of the character's essence.

[Candy Kappa]

On one hand, with an African American April in a live action movie, all the comic nerds could reference that one colored Mirage issue where April do have dark skin.

[Xav]

Also, for the record, Mirage April was based on women who frequented the bars in and around Mirage Studios. The bars in question were Lesbian clubs, if that helps.Really? I never heard that before.

[Raphael232]

they should also turn the turtles black/hispanic instead of green. I can see it now "yo homes, check out my nunchucks esse" OR "fo shizzle my nizzle as I slice you with my sizzled katana" it would be too stupid. lol definitely would skip that movie.

[Zulithe]

I'd rather have a Samoan Casey Jones personally

[Metalwolf]

So blacks & Hispanics are a different species from whites? Wow. The ignorance of some people.No, he means that it would be strange to have April that different, when she's recognizably a certain way.

It does not mean that he comparing blacks and hispanics to another species. :roll:

[Davetello]

I could care less. For one thing, changing April's race isn't one and the same as changing the Shredder's ethnicity. Shredder's heritage is part of his character. His character is from Japan. So I can see why casting William Fichtner has so many scratching their heads, and rightfully so. That is odd. The change itself also implies that his character's history will have significant changes. (Fichtner is a good actor, but ethnicity aside, I still can't see him as the Shredder.)

Changing April's ethnicity means very little to her character's history. Nothing significant, at least. April was white, now she's black. Oh well. As long as the role is played by a charismatic actress, with energy and spunk, who cares? Chrisdude even had a fantastic suggestion. (Hell, I wish they'd cast her over Megan Fox! She can act, she's likable, and, IMO, she's even better looking -- you know, for those who care only about eye candy.)

The only people who would have any issue with this would be the same pig-headed morons who couldn't get past the gender changes from the more recent Battlestar Galactica. Who cares what they think?

Good post. April's ethnicity or heritage really makes no difference to her character. You're bang on in making that distinction between she and Shredder.

And, as an aside, it's interesting that you refer to BSG - I've started watching that on Netflix.

By the way, about your first sentence, I always find it curious when Americans say 'I could care less' rather than 'I couldn't care less'. Surely that means you care a great deal? Just something I find funny about how Americans talk.

[The Stryker]

they should also turn the turtles black/hispanic instead of green. I can see it now "yo homes, check out my nunchucks esse" OR "fo shizzle my nizzle as I slice you with my sizzled katana" it would be too stupid. lol definitely would skip that movie.

That's really funny.

I'm being sarcastic.

[sgtfbomb]

There was a time when Nick Fury was recognized purely as a white character. Then came the "Ultimate Nick Fury," and now we have Samuel L. Jackson playing him in the Marvel film universe, and people love it. Yeah, I'm sure some people made a fuss about it, but most people don't care that the character was once white, and now is black.

[Davetello]

There was a time when Nick Fury was recognized purely as a white character. Then came the "Ultimate Nick Fury," and now we have Samuel L. Jackson playing him in the Marvel film universe, and people love it. Yeah, I'm sure some people made a fuss about it, but most people don't care that the character was once white, and now is black.

Apparently the Ultimate version of Fury is actually based on Sammy as he told Marvel he wanted to play the part in future films years down the line.

[Lord Nightwalker]

So blacks & Hispanics are a different species from whites? Wow. The ignorance of some people.

Powder you're a damned idiot. I did not imply that at all. What I am saying is there should not be a change of character. Period. She wasn't either in conception, so why make her so now. Bond is a white man. Batman is a white man. Black Panther is a Black man. And they should be so on film, because that is what they were intended by their creators. Was that simple enough for you or do I need to break out the realty big crayons?

[Powder]

By making a comparison of two different species, that's exactly what you implied, if only by mistake.
Also, this damned idiot doesn't know what 'realty big crayons are'. Really? Reality? Matters of real-estate?

That aside, her ethnicity has no significance to her character.

[Jester]

Lord Nightwalker...um...early in April's inception, one creator saw her as white and the other modeled her after his black girlfriend...in fact some subsequent artist amped up the African-American features in April. It's not a completely ridiculous question (I can't believe I'm saying this...), and it's not as (soooo ironic) black and white as you see it. And really what does it matter if some creator decided to re-tell the Batman story with the Waynes being a black family. Would it be that far fetched? Now BLACK Panther....sure. But Batman doesn't HAVE to be white.

EDIT:
Here. Which of these 2 women is April O'Neil?
http://benjaminherman.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-32.jpg

[Shark_Blade]

There's already a black Batman, Spiderman, etc though. No idea who is Black Panther.

http://cdn2-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2012/01/file_180819_0_batwing5658.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/otrc/2010/photos/8287366_600x338.jpg

And I agree, in the early comics, April changed her straight hair to curls and look like african origin. It's in my ultimate collection books, kinda hard to find images online though. Anyway, I don't see the big deal.

[CyberCubed]

I dislike the idea of Miles in Spiderman. He's just a token character of mixed black and whatever else he was as tokenism.

[Casey]

She was clearly African American in the early Mirage comics. Why does she always have to be based on the cartoons? In Megan Fox's defense (I never thought I would say those words), she does more closely resemble the original April compared to the button nosed redhead in a yellow jumpsuit that Fred Wolf and his cronies came up with. This movie is obviously more in line with the original animated series more than any other incarnation of the turtles though, so really she should've been cast to match the April we all came to know and love as children.

[Jester]

The REAL reason Megan Fox was cast as April:
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526534_524825519202_1067178833_n.jpg

[Lord Nightwalker]

That's the first new 52 Batwing. Fox's son is the new one, new costume too. And yes, changing the Waynes to blacks would be wrong because that is not what Bob Kane envisioned. But, that could be explored on one of DC parallel Earths. If you created this really cool character featured in books, TV and movies would you want someone screwing around with the characters you created? And April's the brunette. I know the story about Eastman's girlfriend of the time, you're making it a racial thing, I was not. If it were my work being changed "just because", I'd be rather pissed off. Lets make Sherlock Holmes a pharmacist instead of a detective, Dr.Doom can replace Dr. House, and Mickey can be a talking goat instead of a mouse. Scew Walt.

[Lord Nightwalker]

By making a comparison of two different species, that's exactly what you implied, if only by mistake.
Also, this damned idiot doesn't know what 'realty big crayons are'. Really? Reality? Matters of real-estate?

That aside, her ethnicity has no significance to her character.

Not what I was going for Powder. I apologize for the name calling, I just find it unpleasant when being label as an ignorant racist which is what you implied. It made me angry.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

...

Really? is there a difference in New York sewers? The city is filthy!

The point was simple - I can't think of a single woman I know who would willingly, routinely, go into a Sewer.
In fact, most guys I know wouldn't either. It's gross and full of toxins, airborne and otherwise.

My second point, was that this entire thread is ridiculous. Every argument about Changing/not changing race is troll bait.

And if we're going to consider changing the race of a notable character in Comics, April O'neil is hardly the character I'd consider.

Wonder Woman would be a better place to start. An empowered role model, strong, fearless, etc etc.

April's always a whiny damsel in distress who clearly has no aversion to trenchfoot. Sometimes she's a butchy computer nerd (2k3), or a lonely assistant, or a skilled ninja warrior etc...

She's very two dimensional, as proven by her origin story in Mirage.
Sure, cast any ethnicity, but casting just to include another race that serves no purpose to the story, is no different than the stunt casting of Megan Fox.

It should actually be a question of "does this actor bring something to the role? Can she elevate a 2D character and make her come alive on the screen?
Can she do what Sam Jackson did for Nick Fury? What does this actor offer that the others don't?

Like I've said before, This is in no way a definitive TMNT film, so really, who cares? And even if it was the pinnacle of TMNTness, same question.

Maybe in the future we'll get our Avengers version of TMNT. For now, it's Sharktopus, and Shredder is a white dude.

Life goes on.

Actually, YES, there IS a difference. NYC may be dirty but it's hardly the fault of their sewer system. And for the most part, the drainage part would be relatively safe and dry unless the city is experiencing a heavy rain. Which is probably why the green boys live there. It's relatively comfortable for the most part (after some modifications, of course, is easier to remain unseen than say, the subway, and not many people would venture in due to most people not knowing the difference.....

Okay, back to the topic of April. Personally, I don't have a problem with making April any race at all. Heck, make her Polynesian, so long as she is still recognizable! However, I disagree with her being two-dimensional- and I most certainly discard that awful origin story as just plain ridiculous. As much as I liked the tale of Kirby and his crystal-topped pencil, using that to explain who April is was just bad writing- which I may take flack for, but hey, even an otherwise good writer can turn out a stinker every now and then. April has always been smart, spunky, brave- let's face it, she dove head-first into a bizarre world of mutants, aliens, robots, and ninjas without batting an eye- and compassionate. Those are traits could belong to any race.

[Toby Barrett]

She didn't bat an eye, but she did spend most of her time huddled in her corner crying.

[CyberCubed]

She was clearly African American in the early Mirage comics. Why does she always have to be based on the cartoons?

Is that why April is white on all the Mirage covers? Look at the alternate covers for issue #2 and 3, her first appearances....she's white on the covers.

[Jester]

That's the first new 52 Batwing. Fox's son is the new one, new costume too. And yes, changing the Waynes to blacks would be wrong because that is not what Bob Kane envisioned. But, that could be explored on one of DC parallel Earths. If you created this really cool character featured in books, TV and movies would you want someone screwing around with the characters you created? And April's the brunette. I know the story about Eastman's girlfriend of the time, you're making it a racial thing, I was not. If it were my work being changed "just because", I'd be rather pissed off. Lets make Sherlock Holmes a pharmacist instead of a detective, Dr.Doom can replace Dr. House, and Mickey can be a talking goat instead of a mouse. Scew Walt.

Yes, but there's a HUGE difference between changing a core part of the character like making a detective a druggist, and taking a white character and making him black. Judging them by the "content of the character" and not the color of their skin and what not.

Making the Waynes black wouldn't change the core of the Batman character. Making him become a police detective would.

[Coola Yagami]

Yes, but there's a HUGE difference between changing a core part of the character like making a detective a druggist, and taking a white character and making him black. Judging them by the "content of the character" and not the color of their skin and what not.

Making the Waynes black wouldn't change the core of the Batman character. Making him become a police detective would.

A black Batman would be interesting. I assume this would work more in modern times since we do have black millionares, but back then when Bob Kane first created Batman, a black family being as 'stupid rich' as the Waynes would probably be unheard of.

[Jester]

A black Batman would be interesting. I assume this would work more in modern times since we do have black millionares, but back then when Bob Kane first created Batman, a black family being as 'stupid rich' as the Waynes would probably be unheard of.
Exactly, when Kane and Siegel and Shuster created their characters most of these fictional characters were white by default.

That's not necessary in the modern era.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly, when Kane and Siegel and Shuster created their characters most of these fictional characters were white by default.

That's not necessary in the modern era.

Yeah, it sounds bland and boring nowadays, but back then, white was default. Having a Mexican dude as one of the Fantastic Four, Peter Parker working for a black boss that ran his own newspaper company or more than one woman in a superhero team probably wouldn't fly back then.

[chrisdude]

And all those all-white casts would look silly now. Like, catch your attention silly. Like, make black people ask, "Why are there no black people in this movie?" silly. That's what I was saying.

[Coola Yagami]

And all those all-white casts would look silly now. Like, catch your attention silly. Like, make black people ask, "Why are there no black people in this movie?" silly. That's what I was saying.

I kinda think you can pull it off if it's something like the Fantastic Four. Four white people in a team doesn't seem so weird, especially if the movie still showcases all sorts of people throughout the city and it doesn't look like some fictional all-white city. But when you have teams as huge as the X-Men and the Avengers, it would be weird if ALL of them were white and there was only one female or something.

[Jester]

I kinda think you can pull it off if it's something like the Fantastic Four. Four white people in a team doesn't seem so weird, especially if the movie still showcases all sorts of people throughout the city and it doesn't look like some fictional all-white city. But when you have teams as huge as the X-Men and the Avengers, it would be weird if ALL of them were white and there was only one female or something.
http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/the_avengers_movie_2012-HD.jpg
I see what you did there....

[Coola Yagami]

http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/the_avengers_movie_2012-HD.jpg
I see what you did there....

Probably not the best example... but hey, they all follow orders from a black man...do they not? These guys are the first, I feel classics like Captain America and Iron Man just HAD to be white, similar to Batman and Spider-Man (AND I MEAN BRUCE WAYNE AND PETER PARKER before anyone shows more pics of Nightwing and Miles). I do assume as we get sequels we'll see other characters of other races and genders thrown into the mix. The movie Avengers so far are just a handful. They're far from being the giant super team they are in the comics.

[chrisdude]

It also doesn't hurt when the black character you do have is played by one of the most likeable actors around. Like Morgan Freeman, Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle, or Halle Berry. Possibly the most well-known actors in their respective superhero movies, now that I think about it...

[Casey]

Is that why April is white on all the Mirage covers? Look at the alternate covers for issue #2 and 3, her first appearances....she's white on the covers.

Read them. Look at the pictures on the later issues prior to the teens and twenties. She is clearly black.

[InsaneZane]

I couldn't for example, stomach the idea of a white guy playing Black Panther in an Avengers sequel.

That would be almost as bad as the Rodney King incident.

[Jester]

That would be almost as bad as the Rodney King incident.
Uh....it'd be stupid, but not a hate crime.

[InsaneZane]

Uh....it'd be stupid, but not a hate crime.

Ok, that wasn't meant to be taken seriously dude, I was being sarcastic as to how stupid it would be

[Candy Kappa]

There was a time when Nick Fury was recognized purely as a white character. Then came the "Ultimate Nick Fury," and now we have Samuel L. Jackson playing him in the Marvel film universe, and people love it. Yeah, I'm sure some people made a fuss about it, but most people don't care that the character was once white, and now is black.

Nick Fury is still Caucasian in the main 616 marvel Universe.

Luckily only Ultimate nick Fury's looks are whats being used in future Marvel installments (movies, cartoons etc) Cause General Fury is a horrible human being, even by Ultimate universe standards where everyone is a terrible person.

[Discogod]

Nick Fury is still Caucasian in the main 616 marvel Universe.

Oh, you mean this Nick Fury?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b3/Marcus_Johnson_Nick_Fury_jr.png/250px-Marcus_Johnson_Nick_Fury_jr.png

Yeah, he's black now, in line with the movies...

[Coola Yagami]

From what I heard white fury adopted a black son or whatever and died or something and that guy got to take the nick fury title for himself so there we go. Black fury in the main 616 too.

[CyberCubed]

White Nick Fury was always boring. At least as a black man he looks cool. Black people just look cool when they're in high positions.

[TheOracle]

White Nick Fury was always boring. At least as a black man he looks cool. Black people just look cool when they're in high positions.

uuum...wat.

[Jester]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_magss5WkuC1qc840no1_500.jpg

[chrisdude]

White Nick Fury was always boring. At least as a black man he looks cool. Black people just look cool when they're in high positions.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0e0xh2yAg1qlkgafo3_r1_250.gif

[CyberCubed]

I'm actually serious. I always thought white Nick Fury was kinda lame, but ever since he became black his popularity skyrocketed in the Marvel Universe.

Obviously the guys at Marvel knew what they were doing because black Nick Fury is far more popular than his white days. So there's obviously something that clicks here.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm actually serious. I always thought white Nick Fury was kinda lame, but ever since he became black his popularity skyrocketed in the Marvel Universe.

Obviously the guys at Marvel knew what they were doing because black Nick Fury is far more popular than his white days. So there's obviously something that clicks here.

Not really. It's just Fury and Shield were things that appeared once in a while, when the menace was just that big. Now that they made the Avengers directly answer to Fury and Shield, and have Shield help out with tech and whatnot.... they just seem so much more popular and in the public eye. All coulda been the same if they used the classic Fury. But I do admit, who doesn't like Samuel L Jackson?

[Shark_Blade]

Black people just look cool when they're in high positions.
That statement.. I don't even.

[sgtfbomb]

White Nick Fury was always boring. At least as a black man he looks cool. Black people just look cool when they're in high positions.

You're clearly from one of those small towns, out in the middle of nowhere, where everybody's the same color, have the same politics, attend the same church, burn the same crosses.... :roll:

[CyberCubed]

You're clearly from one of those small towns, out in the middle of nowhere, where everybody's the same color, have the same politics, attend the same church, burn the same crosses.... :roll:

I live in New York, y'know, the place where there are millions of mixed races. :lol:

[TheOracle]

I live in New York, y'know, the place where there are millions of mixed races. :lol:

I don't know if its because he's black, because he's represented by someone cool and famous, or because someone that actually holds some kind of authority with his acting. I don't believe he'd have the same awesome factor if Will Smith played him in the movies but I do think he'd have the same awesome factor if someone like Jeremy Irons played him, so I don't think its because he's black but rather he was played by someone that made him note worthy and memorable.
If his character in the comics was based on Steve Urkel (Jaleel White), I don't think he's be even close to cool. :P

[Tazi]

I'd rather have a hispanic, or black, or even male April over white, nerdy looking Shredder, tbh.

[BabyTurtles]

wow this got a good amount of pages :3

I wouldn't mind if they made April black or hispanic one day XD
or make Angel meet the turtles first instead

either way

(but like I said...I love April being a redhead....with freckles....I love freckles)

[Coola Yagami]

wow this got a good amount of pages :3

I wouldn't mind if they made April black or hispanic one day XD
or make Angel meet the turtles first instead

either way

(but like I said...I love April being a redhead....with freckles....I love freckles)

The turtles need to be more mainstream and Angel would have to be less obscure. I can imagine the backlash of thousands of TMNT fans asking 'who the hell is Angel' or 'why did they call April, Angel???'

[BabyTurtles]

The turtles need to be more mainstream and Angel would have to be less obscure. I can imagine the backlash of thousands of TMNT fans asking 'who the hell is Angel' or 'why did they call April, Angel???'

lol IDK I thought it would be easier than people asking "why is April Black/Hispanic!?"

XD

[DONATELLO DUZMACHINES]

they should also turn the turtles black/hispanic instead of green. I can see it now "yo homes, check out my nunchucks esse" OR "fo shizzle my nizzle as I slice you with my sizzled katana" it would be too stupid. lol definitely would skip that movie.

I said to myself that I wasn't gonna even look at this thread, than I got bored and looked somewhat shocked that it actually made it to five pages. Than I seen this foolishness thats quoted above and wanted to ask Raphael 232 if this is a joke or are you serious?

[Coola Yagami]

I said to myself that I wasn't gonna even look at this thread, than I got bored and looked somewhat shocked that it actually made it to five pages. Than I seen this foolishness thats quoted above and wanted to ask Raphael 232 if this is a joke or are you serious?

The funny thing is, the Turtles are basically 'white'. Yeah, I know it sounds silly since they're not even human, but similar to Superman despite being an alien and such, the Turtles are basically white.

[BabyTurtles]

they should also turn the turtles black/hispanic instead of green. I can see it now "yo homes, check out my nunchucks esse" OR "fo shizzle my nizzle as I slice you with my sizzled katana" it would be too stupid. lol definitely would skip that movie.

not sure if that's a joke or not...it probably is XD

but isn't that a stereotype??.....XD none of my friends would say that seriously XD

the media though....

[DONATELLO DUZMACHINES]

The funny thing is, the Turtles are basically 'white'. Yeah, I know it sounds silly since they're not even human, but similar to Superman despite being an alien and such, the Turtles are basically white.
Your right, this does sound silly. Could you please provide an explanation as to how you can you came to this conclusion?

[BabyTurtles]

Your right, this does sound silly. Could you please provide an explanation as to how you can you came to this conclusion?

maybe they mean their voice actors are always white???

so they must be? XD

[chrisdude]

The funny thing is, the Turtles are basically 'white'. Yeah, I know it sounds silly since they're not even human, but similar to Superman despite being an alien and such, the Turtles are basically white.Ehhhh... Superman's not white, either. He looks like a "white" human, but it's not like he's Caucasian. That's like saying Klingons are black, or that black humans are "basically Klingon."

[Coola Yagami]

maybe they mean their voice actors are always white???

so they must be? XD

That's one way of putting it, but yes. I mean, have the Turtles in any incarnation ever acted black or hispanic or anything else that is not default white? Even if we go by the whole 'turning into the last creature they ever touched' thing, the Turtles don't even have Japanese accents or anything after touching Yoshi. Which is funny in a way, Leatherhead in the OT turned cajun cause the last guy that tried to catch him was cajun.

[Coola Yagami]

Ehhhh... Superman's not white, either. He looks like a "white" human, but it's not like he's Caucasian. That's like saying Klingons are black, or that black humans are "basically Klingon."

That's just the thing. There's no reason why Superman (in reality, I mean aside from editiorial mandate) should look like a white human. He should honestly have unique facial features or skin tone unlike anything resembling our planet.

The Klingon can get away with being dark-skinned humanoids since they have a horn-structure on their foreheads and don't act anything like Earth people do. Unlike Superman, Worf can't just put on a sports shirt, pair of shades and walk around blending in with normal society.

[Cure]

I mean, have the Turtles in any incarnation ever acted black or hispanic or anything else that is not default white?

I guess you're competing with CyberCubed for most "I'm not a racist" racist member of the boards.

[Powder]

If you go by their logic, then the turtles are a minority for sure. They use ebonics & listen to hip-hop. Surely that makes them black at heart. Donatello is the blackest because he said "homeboy" in episode one of the OT. :trolleye: :tlol:

[Jester]

Who's Fred Wolf?

[Coola Yagami]

If you go by their logic, then the turtles are a minority for sure. They use ebonics & listen to hip-hop. Surely that makes them black at heart. Donatello is the blackest because he said "homeboy" in episode one of the OT. :trolleye: :tlol:

Never heard em use ebonics or listen to hip-hop. Aside from possibly Leo, digging deeper into Splinter's Japanese customs, everyone else is pretty much 'default clean-slate white', especially surfer Mikey and Bronx/Jersey Raph.

It does make me curious how people would react if non-white people ever voiced the Turtles, or at least some of them. I remember people making a deal about Mikey having blue eyes in the 2K7 movie.

And cut out the racist junk. People can discuss race and ethnicity without being racist. Have you guys become so scared and overly sensitive you can't even talk about different people without being labeled as such? Must you be so up on your high horse you look for racism even when there isn't any.

I can't speak for Cybercubed cause I don't know him other than this form, but I have friends of several ethnicities and races and I was grew up learning not to treat people any different regardless of their race, gender or orientation. Yeah, we live in a world with all sorts of people of different kinds, and yes, sometimes discussions of those differences do come up. But they can be civil and ask innocent questions without starting up a fight or throwing our accusations.

People mention Mexican stereotypes and ask me 'why do they call em beaners anyway?' and such, and I answer em without yelling out racist and starting a fight.

And yeah, I did mention the whiteboy Shredder thing at work out of general curiousity (5 people in my general work area) and aside from explaining to 2 of them who the Shredder was.. and correcting a guy for thinking Shredder was always white to begin with (I'm like... dude... his name is Oroku Saki for gods sake... and he's like 'well I never knew his real name, i just saw the cartoons as a kid') noone really saw the whole 'whiteboy' thing as a racial slur of any kind, just outdated slang. And 4 of these people were white. One of em even asked 'they still use whiteboy, nowadays? isn't that like... 80's or something?'

Anyways, I'm closing the subject on this and possibly posting less on this forum. Especially if there are any other topics such as 'why wasn't April black' or 'what if Splinter was gay' since some of you can't keep it civil without throwing out accusations left and right.

[BabyTurtles]

That's one way of putting it, but yes. I mean, have the Turtles in any incarnation ever acted black or hispanic or anything else that is not default white? Even if we go by the whole 'turning into the last creature they ever touched' thing, the Turtles don't even have Japanese accents or anything after touching Yoshi. Which is funny in a way, Leatherhead in the OT turned cajun cause the last guy that tried to catch him was cajun.

legit question.......
how are Black and Hispanic people supposed to act like? XD???

[DONATELLO DUZMACHINES]

That's one way of putting it, but yes. I mean, have the Turtles in any incarnation ever acted black or hispanic or anything else that is not default white? Even if we go by the whole 'turning into the last creature they ever touched' thing, the Turtles don't even have Japanese accents or anything after touching Yoshi. Which is funny in a way, Leatherhead in the OT turned cajun cause the last guy that tried to catch him was cajun. what do mean acted black or hispanic? What is default white? The turtles act like teenagers nothing more nothing less. Nothing about them points to them being a particular race or nationality, because there are no staple personalitys for different races. Someones personality is shaped by their up bringing environment and personal experiences not the color of there skin, and if were operating off of the logic of them being the nationality that voices them than couldnt we say that shredder acts black because he's been voiced by black men twice?

[Cure]

how are Black and Hispanic people supposed to act like? XD???

Exactly. According to this guy there's no black leaders, or Asian hotheads, or Indian goofballs or genius level Hispanics. Nope, all white. Really stupid.

[Jester]

If anything aren't the all Asian...because...Hamato Yoshi?

[Refractive Reflections]

I think these arguments of racial identity are just the tip of the iceberg this country (United States) has avoided in discussing. As I posted in another thread:


I think what the United States will ultimately need to confront, as it becomes more racially diverse, are the issues of racial identity and "authenticity" with millennials (Generation Y) and subsequent generations when their parents (Baby-Boomers and older) experienced a much more different, and divided political/racial landscape. It will prompt the questions of: How ____ (choose a racial group) are you? How do you define ____ (choose a racial group)? And how important is race to your identity?

...Then again these questions could be coming from an older (maybe outdated?) paradigm of how society views the importance of race.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly. According to this guy there's no black leaders, or Asian hotheads, or Indian goofballs or genius level Hispanics. Nope, all white. Really stupid.

Using multi-racial voice actors would help, as well as accents and such. Does Leo sound black, does Raph sound asian, etc etc.

It's just an idea since we're on the subject of multi-racial characters. Perhaps some future incarnation will have them voiced by multi-racial voice actors.

As for Shredder, he doesn't count. He might have been played by a black VA but he played him as a Japanese guy (a heavily Americanized Japanese guy, but still). I mean there's a reason why some people to this day still don't know Uncle Phil played Shredder.

[Refractive Reflections]

Using multi-racial voice actors would help, as well as accents and such. Does Leo sound black, does Raph sound asian, etc etc.


While I do understand what you are trying to convey Coola Yagami, but I'm multi-racial (and my family is composed of different races too). Not being harsh or anything, multi-racials don't really have particular accents, its all about the language used in the environment of the developing child. Or sometimes even as adults, we can pick up accents when moving to different parts of the country.
No, I'm not taking any offense or anything Coola Yagami. :P

When one's multi-racial, merely speaking for myself now, there's never a full sense of "belonging" in one racial group or the other, which can be annoying since society (at least American society) puts so much emphasis on it. There are so many combinations of being multi-racial, its like having many different types of "ethnic cocktails" :lol:; at least for me, I have to draw out an ethnic pie chart of myself when explaining it to others sometimes. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

While I do understand what you are trying to convey Coola Yagami, but I'm multi-racial (and my family is composed of different races too). Not being harsh or anything, multi-racials don't really have particular accents, its all about the language used in the environment of the developing child. Or sometimes even as adults, we can pick up accents when moving to different parts of the country.
No, I'm not taking any offense or anything Coola Yagami. :P

When one's multi-racial, merely speaking for myself now, there's never a full sense of "belonging" in one racial group or the other, which can be annoying since society (at least American society) puts so much emphasis on it. There are so many combinations of being multi-racial, its like having many different types of "ethnic cocktails" :lol:; at least for me, I have to draw out an ethnic pie chart of myself when explaining it to others sometimes. :lol:

Cool, I meant no offense either. I'm of mixed races myself, though I was born in the US so always stuck more with American customs and traditions. Many people I know don't believe that spanish is my second language.

But yeah, when I said multi-racial, I kinda meant like... Raph being voiced by a black guy, Leo by a hispanic, etc not Raph being voiced by a black mixed with hispanic, though that would have been interesting.

It is interesting though, I have seen some drawings on DeviantArt of the 'what if the Turtles were human' and such, Leo is usually Japanese and Raph is sometimes black.

[BabyTurtles]

Cool, I meant no offense either. I'm of mixed races myself, though I was born in the US so always stuck more with American customs and traditions. Many people I know don't believe that spanish is my second language.

But yeah, when I said multi-racial, I kinda meant like... Raph being voiced by a black guy, Leo by a hispanic, etc not Raph being voiced by a black mixed with hispanic, though that would have been interesting.

It is interesting though, I have seen some drawings on DeviantArt of the 'what if the Turtles were human' and such, Leo is usually Japanese and Raph is sometimes black.

maybe Raph could be voiced by Donald Glover he did an awesome Marshall lee! ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AATGCGy0sLc

....then again Marshall lee sounds too suave to be Raph :lol:

[Commenter 42]

Really? I never heard that before.

Kevin Eastman did an interview years ago, in which he talked at length about his life's journey with the turtles - it was for a comic magazine back in 2001 I think...

He's rather candid about his influences and specifically April in the article, which is a really good read. If I can find it and post, i will.

[Commenter 42]

If anything aren't the all Asian...because...Hamato Yoshi?

This - though wouldn't Japanese be a little more politically correct?

I have friends who are Chinese, and they really hate being called "Asian".

[Candy Kappa]

That sounds silly, I'm Norwegian, but I am still an Scandinavian, because Norway lies in that region. And an European, because Norway lies in that continent.

Anyway, back on topic. The turtles would probably adopt whatever speech patter and accent from what they learn from TV, Radio etc. Ethnicity debate on the turtles is silly, sicne they don't go under the Homo Sapiens Sapiens definition on ethnicity and race. They aren't even human. At best, they have human mutation in them (depending on which incarnation), stemming from a Japanese man. But that don't mean anything on how they speak or sound.

and back on the actual topic. April's skin color really don't matter to me, I guess as long as she decent from Irish immigrants anything is okay. But names don't dictate skin color.

[Commenter 42]

Actually, YES, there IS a difference. NYC may be dirty but it's hardly the fault of their sewer system. And for the most part, the drainage part would be relatively safe and dry unless the city is experiencing a heavy rain. Which is probably why the green boys live there. It's relatively comfortable for the most part (after some modifications, of course, is easier to remain unseen than say, the subway, and not many people would venture in due to most people not knowing the difference.....


Yeah... can't agree with you on that. People don't live in and around sewers without getting sick. There are thousands of diseases, and no, the sewers are not a safe dry place that with a little elbow grease make a good home. Real New York is Real, not a cartoon.
My point is still that the girl, to me is crazy, same as Casey Jones is crazy. Real people do not behave the way these two do, and if they did, they would be locked up, then sent for psych evaluations. They are not normal, just like Batman is not "Normal". These people have serious problems.


I disagree with her being two-dimensional- and I most certainly discard that awful origin story as just plain ridiculous. As much as I liked the tale of Kirby and his crystal-topped pencil, using that to explain who April is was just bad writing- which I may take flack for, but hey, even an otherwise good writer can turn out a stinker every now and then. April has always been smart, spunky, brave- let's face it, she dove head-first into a bizarre world of mutants, aliens, robots, and ninjas without batting an eye- and compassionate. Those are traits could belong to any race.

Well, i happen to think her origin is the most plausible for the world they set up. It's all allegorical, goofy, storytelling that is absurdest in the best sense of the word. I loved that he deconstructed his own story, and turned the character on its head. it takes guts to do that when you have a fan base that is surely going to turn on you. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but for me it's perfect.

Back to the crazy though...
So yeah, She did what? "she dove head-first into a bizarre world of mutants, aliens, robots, and ninjas without batting an eye-"

Yep. Perfectly sane healthy normal woman, holding down a stressful job working long hours trying to pay the bills, and suddenly... ninjas.

So sure, it's fantasy, but there is this whole plausibility factor that you just can't deny. it's just not plausible.

[Coola Yagami]

So how would a real world April act? And she didn't dive into anything. Baxter sent robots after her and the turtles saved her. Anything else came after that but she wasn't expecting it. She even left New York for a while to get away from it.

If you mean 80s April, she was following a news story. The turtles and all their situations are a news exclusive gold mine. The turtles and shredder basically paid her bills for her.

[Refractive Reflections]

Cool, I meant no offense either. I'm of mixed races myself, though I was born in the US so always stuck more with American customs and traditions. Many people I know don't believe that spanish is my second language.

But yeah, when I said multi-racial, I kinda meant like... Raph being voiced by a black guy, Leo by a hispanic, etc not Raph being voiced by a black mixed with hispanic, though that would have been interesting.

It is interesting though, I have seen some drawings on DeviantArt of the 'what if the Turtles were human' and such, Leo is usually Japanese and Raph is sometimes black.

Oh! Multiple races within the cast as a whole, not individual people being multi-racial. :P *facepalm* Duh on myself. :lol:
Okay... thanks for the clarification, and sorry for the confusion. :)

[Commenter 42]

So how would a real world April act? And she didn't dive into anything. Baxter sent robots after her and the turtles saved her. Anything else came after that but she wasn't expecting it. She even left New York for a while to get away from it.

If you mean 80s April, she was following a news story. The turtles and all their situations are a news exclusive gold mine. The turtles and shredder basically paid her bills for her.

You misunderstand me. I'm more than aware of the various incarnations of April. I have read and watched it all.

I'm trying to support the statement that April is not this rich and interesting character. She's a very strange individual that only serves to move stories forward, or provide a deus ex machina at just the right moment, which often enables the turtles to accomplish their goal.

My point is simple - her actions and motivations are simplistic and childish, and she in no way ever acts as a rational adult, but rather a 6 year old with a secret nobody can know.

So my point is simple - where is the challenge for the actress? where is the joy in playing a shallow, simple character? You would need to invent quite a bit to build her out and make her truly believable.

This might make it clearer -
if we are all so wrapped up in proving ourselves to be colorblind, we need to go further.
In the most recent James Bond, Money-Penny was revealed as black, where she had always been previously played by a white actress.
I say big deal - but if James Bond were Black for example...
and people didn't get angry,
Then we could say we have made real progress.

[CyberCubed]

I don't understand why topics about race have people so sensitive on this forum. You can make the same topic on any other online forum and people wouldn't get all up in arms about this.

[Jester]

I don't understand why topics about race have people so sensitive on this forum. You can make the same topic on any other online forum and people wouldn't get all up in arms about this.
I dare you to post that Ebonics thread in another forum...report back in...um...10 or so years. Gotta give this experiment plenty of time...

[Avatar Yuffie]

I don't understand why topics about race have people so sensitive on this forum. You can make the same topic on any other online forum and people wouldn't get all up in arms about this.

*laughs forever*

Oh you naive person.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm curious as how a rational adult April would act given the circumstances.. And still remain a part of the turtles lives.

[Refractive Reflections]

I don't understand why topics about race have people so sensitive on this forum. You can make the same topic on any other online forum and people wouldn't get all up in arms about this.

It's not necessarily discussing about topics of race, it's your approach CyberCubed.

Talking about the topics of race, doesn't make someone a racist. Someone can talk about the topics of rape and murder, and that doesn't make them a rapist or murderer.

As I said before, it's your approach CyberCubed. You insert negative racial tones (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=44631) (and outlandish generalizations of other social groups) into your threads/posts, so naturally people are going to get upset, especially since this society overprioritizes race as a form of personal identity and unfairly about character. In addition to that CyberCubed, you have a tendency to make oblivious (or at least seemingly oblivious), careless incendiary remarks.

It's interesting that at times you can be so perceptive about the character depth and complexity of TMNT characters of an imaginary world and among several reinterpretations, but when it comes to the complexity of real people, in the real world, there seems to be a disconnect where you find it "easier" to use stereotypes and generalizations. You're either very naive or you're one incredibly sly troll that hides your offensive viewpoints under the disguise of naivety, and thus find people's heated reactions entertaining (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1138840&postcount=24).

[Avatar Yuffie]

Don't forget the fact that "people wouldn't go up in arms over race in other forums" is just plain ignorant.

*coughMsAmerica2014cough*

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah... can't agree with you on that. People don't live in and around sewers without getting sick. There are thousands of diseases, and no, the sewers are not a safe dry place that with a little elbow grease make a good home. Real New York is Real, not a cartoon.
My point is still that the girl, to me is crazy, same as Casey Jones is crazy. Real people do not behave the way these two do, and if they did, they would be locked up, then sent for psych evaluations. They are not normal, just like Batman is not "Normal". These people have serious problems.


Well, i happen to think her origin is the most plausible for the world they set up. It's all allegorical, goofy, storytelling that is absurdest in the best sense of the word. I loved that he deconstructed his own story, and turned the character on its head. it takes guts to do that when you have a fan base that is surely going to turn on you. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but for me it's perfect.

Back to the crazy though...
So yeah, She did what? "she dove head-first into a bizarre world of mutants, aliens, robots, and ninjas without batting an eye-"

Yep. Perfectly sane healthy normal woman, holding down a stressful job working long hours trying to pay the bills, and suddenly... ninjas.

So sure, it's fantasy, but there is this whole plausibility factor that you just can't deny. it's just not plausible.

I take it you're not aware of the fact that some of NYC's homeless population does just that- living in storm drainage and run-off pipes? By "relatively safe and dry"(as in mostly dry save for normal water usage on the streets above), I was of course comparing it to the "waste" levels of said system. There is a difference. Heck there are even guided tours of some large cities' sewers, especially historically significant ones- and there is always Paris and the Catacombs under Norte Dame- now THAT'S a place you wouldn't want to spend much time in! (You know, cause it's full of dead people....) So while it may not be an entirely PLEASANT place to live (and honestly, there is no more disease and such in the average drainage sewer than in a typical urban lake), it's no more dangerous than living on the banks a river in most of the world's large cities. Either would be about the same level of cleanliness.


And I don't find April to be particularly "crazy", either- she is curious, determined, brave, (at least in the IDW, OT, and 2K3 versions- not sure about Mirage, 'cause I've not yet read it) and smart- all traits which tend to make a person better able to cope with stressful, dangerous, and difficult situations. What you term "crazy", I call resourceful and adaptable. She was able to roll with whatever came her way, and not only survive, but take it in stride as just part of life's (admittedly bizarre) hurdles. I'd call her an admirable person for being able to actually KEEP her sanity and lucidity after everything that came her way- regardless of incarnation. As for the OT, after meeting the turtles, she pretty much gave them an ultimatum, and DEMANDED to go along when they decided to investigate the situation with the mousers and the Foot, etc. Avery time they went out on a mission, she WENT ALONG OF HER OWN FREE WILL. No one asked her to, or forced her to, or even suggested she should. Most of the time, the turtles tried to dissuade her. But she was determined to get to the bottom of things, and get her news story. She is/was one of the quintessential dogged news-hounds of the mid-twentieth century, the kind who would do whatever it took to get their story. That persistence is part of he character in every version, too.

2K3 April was cut from the same mold, even if she didn't have the same job. As Baxter's assistant, she still had the same curiosity, determination, and guts. And the same need to find the truth. One of the things I've always liked about her character in any version is that she doesn't take no for an answer, and she doesn't stop just because something might be dangerous or difficult. She never took the easy road of staying out of things, and she even went so far as to learn to defend herself, by having Splinter teach her. How is any of that crazy? It sounds pretty sane to me, especially given the circumstances she continually found herself involved in. Seems she was a proactive gal in ANY incarnation, and one who took what was thrown her way in stride and accepted it.

I have to disagree that any of this describes a "shallow, simple character" with no depth, a "strange individual whose motivations are childish and simplistic". Yeah, in the OT, she was mainly motivated to get her story- that's called DOING HER JOB. She's a reporter- what do people THINK she's supposed to be doing? In the versions where she's Baxter's assistant or what-have-you, she digs into the seamy underbelly of the company to find out what her "suspicious" boss is doing behind everyone's backs (or under their noses, take your pick). Nick's April is simply caught in a bad situation where aliens are literally out to get her, and is trying her hardest to make the best of it. Nothing crazy, childish, OR shallow about that.

[Commenter 42]

I take it you're not aware of the fact....

Wow. I think I touched a nerve with you.
But if you're so sure, feel free to come up to NY anytime, and I'll buy you lunch- if you sleep just one night in the sewer.

Maybe sewers are better maintained in Texas?

ANYWAY
I work with reporters, all day everyday. Hate to play that card, but, it's true.
Investigative journalism is dangerous, for sure, but it's more along the lines of the danger of being sued, which is the biggest concern.
There are also journalists who cover international news. Their life can be in danger, but they are NEVER reporting alone, or in a vacuum. There is always a security detail or an escort of some kind. They don't go traipsing around alone to get the "scoop". It's not 1949. They need to be able to corroborate a story in some way.

But putting aside reporter April, this argument went way off track, and clearly you care about the character much more than I do. And that's great, but it doesn't change my view.

I don't see her as any sort of hero. Ripely, in Alien, is a hero, even more so in the second film; Jessica Chastains character in Zero dark 30, incredible. The list is long...

But April is always on the side, spectating, and more to the point, the story could be told, and in many cases has been told, without her.

But fine, let's agree to disagree.

MY original point, was that switching the ethnicity does nothing to enhance her character, or detract from it, and what's more, it's no big WIN for racial equality in any sense, because every film of late has been comfortable placing minority actors in supporting roles that were previously played by white actors.

Again, if we want to talk about color blindness, we should be talking about leading roles.

[Coola Yagami]

Wow. I think I touched a nerve with you.
But if you're so sure, feel free to come up to NY anytime, and I'll buy you lunch- if you sleep just one night in the sewer.

Maybe sewers are better maintained in Texas?

ANYWAY
I work with reporters, all day everyday. Hate to play that card, but, it's true.
Investigative journalism is dangerous, for sure, but it's more along the lines of the danger of being sued, which is the biggest concern.
There are also journalists who cover international news. Their life can be in danger, but they are NEVER reporting alone, or in a vacuum. There is always a security detail or an escort of some kind. They don't go traipsing around alone to get the "scoop". It's not 1949. They need to be able to corroborate a story in some way.

But putting aside reporter April, this argument went way off track, and clearly you care about the character much more than I do. And that's great, but it doesn't change my view.

I don't see her as any sort of hero. Ripely, in Alien, is a hero, even more so in the second film; Jessica Chastains character in Zero dark 30, incredible. The list is long...

But April is always on the side, spectating, and more to the point, the story could be told, and in many cases has been told, without her.

But fine, let's agree to disagree.

MY original point, was that switching the ethnicity does nothing to enhance her character, or detract from it, and what's more, it's no big WIN for racial equality in any sense, because every film of late has been comfortable placing minority actors in supporting roles that were previously played by white actors.

Again, if we want to talk about color blindness, we should be talking about leading roles.

I'm still wondering how you'd expect a more realistic April to act? Or how to portray her in a way that makes her a rich and engaging character.

I can imagine how most people would act, but April wouldn't have much presence in the movie if she ran screaming in terror of the turtles (never to be seen again throughout the rest of the movie) or gets locked up in a padded room within the first ten minutes of her appearance.

[Commenter 42]

I can imagine how most people would act, but April wouldn't have much presence in the movie if she ran screaming in terror of the turtles (never to be seen again throughout the rest of the movie) or gets locked up in a padded room within the first ten minutes of her appearance.

You've just illustrated my point. Exactly. Most people wouldn't "befriend" the Turtles, they'd run screaming. And if she did, we have a better starting point for her character to grow and change.

If you look at a series like Breaking bad, it's about change, a journey that goes from point A to point B. He doesn't just start selling meth to make money, because it's not believable. We had to see how he got there. It's a similarly implausible story, but by the end, you've bought in.

When we were kids, you buy the April bit because, as kids, we don't have any point of reference. We've never lived alone in a city, with real responsibilities. Everyday is play, an adventure just waiting to be had. Adult life is hard, stressful, and complicated - not for everyone, but I think for most. if you miss work without an excuse, you'll be fired. Apartments in New York start at 2500 a month for a tiny dump, and cost of living is crazy.
Running off to follow a story or have an adventure, not really in the cards, unless you are loaded, which I never got the impression April was.

So yeah, in so many ways, her character is less believable, than the existence of a mutant turtle.

Now a mutant Ninja turtle on the other hand...:P

[Metalwolf]

MY original point, was that switching the ethnicity does nothing to enhance her character, or detract from it, and what's more, it's no big WIN for racial equality in any sense, because every film of late has been comfortable placing minority actors in supporting roles that were previously played by white actors.

Again, if we want to talk about color blindness, we should be talking about leading roles.Exactly. True 'color blindness' really comes from when it doesn't matter who plays a character of a certain race. Even I kind of find the idea of race a bit dumb because the definition of a race tends to shift all over the place and to suit certain political environments.

'Irish' used to be considered a 'race.'

'Hispanic' was a term created in the 1960s during the Nixon Administration. Under forensic and anthropological science, many Hispanics are actually considered Caucasian/White. There is no such thing as a 'Hispanic race.' They're Whites. (Although there are Black Hispanics, but they are forensically considered Black then, not 'Hispanic.')

Listing someone's race down to to the umpteenth degree is sort of a remnant of the 'one drop rule' that used to have wide usage when it came to who was considered black. It's now popular to do this with other race groups, but now because it adds a bit of exotic 'flavor' instead of just listing yourself as just boring black/white.

That's what I know of the stuff on race. Pretty much I kind of find it funny that people get a hernia over race, since race is little more like a breed. Take Chihuahuas and German Shepherds. They are the same species, yet look dramatically different. They might have different health issues, different personalities, but they are still both dogs. And they get listed as being part this and part that, but it changes little of what they are at their core.

So when someone asks that April be this or that, is it something that will bring something to the character, or will she really be a bauble to show off, to appease some old tinge of guilt, after years of portraying her as a 'politically incorrect' race?

If she happens to be black or white or asian, don't make it about her being a particular race. Make it about her being April.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly. True 'color blindness' really comes from when it doesn't matter who plays a character of a certain race. Even I kind of find the idea of race a bit dumb because the definition of a race tends to shift all over the place and to suit certain political environments.

'Irish' used to be considered a 'race.'

'Hispanic' was a term created in the 1960s during the Nixon Administration. Under forensic and anthropological science, many Hispanics are actually considered Caucasian/White. There is no such thing as a 'Hispanic race.' They're Whites. (Although there are Black Hispanics, but they are forensically considered Black then, not 'Hispanic.')

Listing someone's race down to to the umpteenth degree is sort of a remnant of the 'one drop rule' that used to have wide usage when it came to who was considered black. It's now popular to do this with other race groups, but now because it adds a bit of exotic 'flavor' instead of just listing yourself as just boring black/white.

That's what I know of the stuff on race. Pretty much I kind of find it funny that people get a hernia over race, since race is little more like a breed. Take Chihuahuas and German Shepherds. They are the same species, yet look dramatically different. They might have different health issues, different personalities, but they are still both dogs. And they get listed as being part this and part that, but it changes little of what they are at their core.

So when someone asks that April be this or that, is it something that will bring something to the character, or will she really be a bauble to show off, to appease some old tinge of guilt, after years of portraying her as a 'politically incorrect' race?

If she happens to be black or white or asian, don't make it about her being a particular race. Make it about her being April.

Whatever that is anyway.... aside from news reporter April that was driven by her job.... all the other versions of April, Mirage included, are, at their core, little more than 'that woman that knows the Turtles so they have a human friend'.

I wonder... what would have happened if they met Casey first and he was their first human friend and they never bothered to introduce April?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I always think of April being of Irish American ancestors.

[Metalwolf]

I wonder... what would have happened if they met Casey first and he was their first human friend and they never bothered to introduce April?I don't know, that would be interesting though. It might give a different dynamic, considering that Casey likes to brawl and is a guy.

Although I did think of a theory about why they might have cast Shredder as white instead of Japanese: If there is going to be a large audience for this film in China, I think they aren't interested in upsetting the Chinese by setting an actual Japanese guy in there. I think I heard a similar thing about Bay with stuff for Transformers 4, as it might be related to the negative feelings the Chinese have towards the Japanese.

But that is just a guess.

[jestermon]

Lets make the turtles rats and Splinter a turtle but still call it the same name, it's really rediculous when characters get replaced in stories for fun.

They should just make up new stories if they don't want to stick to things in a given franchise.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Lets make the turtles rats and Splinter a turtle but still call it the same name, it's really rediculous when characters get replaced in stories for fun.



Change name.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Rodents
Teenage Mutant Ninja Rodents
Teenage Mutant Ninja Rodents
Heroes in a rathole
Rodent power!

In the 2003 show, when the turtles are teleported from Earth to D'Hoonnib, they end up in the sewers. On that planet, there is a turtle, guiding four rats in the sewers. One of the funniest scenes in the entire 2003 show.

[Commenter 42]

Exactly. True 'color blindness' really comes from when it doesn't matter who plays a character of a certain race. Even I kind of find the idea of race a bit dumb because the definition of a race tends to shift all over the place and to suit certain political environments.

If she happens to be black or white or asian, don't make it about her being a particular race. Make it about her being April.

^^This^^

Finally. I think this thread can now be closed.

[sgtfbomb]

Lets make the turtles rats and Splinter a turtle but still call it the same name, it's really ridiculous when characters get replaced in stories for fun.

They should just make up new stories if they don't want to stick to things in a given franchise.

That's not really the same. April's ethnicity really hold little weight for who she is. Not saying she's a worthless character or anything. I'm just saying that it's not quite the same as changing Shredder's ethnicity, as his heritage is very much a part of his character, being a master in the art of ninjutsu from Japan.

Changing the species is an even bigger extreme, lightyears from changing one's ethnicity.

[Coola Yagami]

That's not really the same. April's ethnicity really hold little weight for who she is. Not saying she's a worthless character or anything. I'm just saying that it's not quite the same as changing Shredder's ethnicity, as his heritage is very much a part of his character, being a master in the art of ninjutsu from Japan.

Changing the species is an even bigger extreme, lightyears from changing one's ethnicity.

I agree. The Turtles are Ninjas in the first place because their master is Japanese and mastered ninjitsu there. And their whole reason to fight evil is due to their master's enemy who was also Japanese in Japan. At this point they might even say Splinter was white before he became a rat.

In fact... there's a different angle. Maybe in this version Yoshi and Sachs are brothers, and Yoshi is actually Japanese, and Sachs is pissed because since he's adopted, he feels he was never as loved by his family as compared to their natural born son.

[Commenter 42]

Fichtner might pull this off. Drive Angry was a horrendous mess, but he was really, really freaky in it.

[Andrew NDB]

Ehhhh... Superman's not white, either. He looks like a "white" human, but it's not like he's Caucasian. That's like saying Klingons are black, or that black humans are "basically Klingon."

That's true. Superman is vastly more different to a white guy than a black guy is to a white guy, when you think about it.