Good Episodes Marred By Replacement Voices.

[Jester]

I know as a kid when watching my VHS copies of the TMNT episodes I always loathed Mutagen Monster because of Alternate Donnie, but I still liked Cowabunga Shredhead despite Townsend taking over for Pat as Krang....though it is easily the weakest thing in the episode. Other great episodes like, Leatherhead: Terror of the Swamp and Ninja Sword to Nowhere, are also plagued by the fact that season 3 has so many episodes with alternate actors in them.

Is it just my voice acting bias, or is anyone else bothered by great episodes having the wrong Krang, Shredder, Donatello and Bebop, or Raphael

[tmnt transformer]

It's hard to watch the Europeian vacation episodes where hard to watch because of Raph's voice...

[cryan]

Yeah, the alternate sounds too much like Bob Hope. Paulsen always had great delivery.

[RaphAndDonnie]

It's hard to watch the Europeian vacation episodes where hard to watch because of Raph's voice...

Same for me. I have all of season 7 on DVD and I've only watched the Europen Vacation episodes once because its painful to listen to the alternate Raph voice. Also, is it just me or was Bebop replaced in one of the EV eipsodes? I can't remember which one but it seemed like his voice was off on one of them...

[Jester]

Same for me. I have all of season 7 on DVD and I've only watched the Europen Vacation episodes once because its painful to listen to the alternate Raph voice. Also, is it just me or was Bebop replaced in one of the EV eipsodes? I can't remember which one but it seemed like his voice was off on one of them...
If Bebop was, so was Donatello...I'm sure there's one where Raph, Don,Bebop and Shredder are all alternates in the EV arc.

[tmnt transformer]

Same for me. I have all of season 7 on DVD and I've only watched the Europen Vacation episodes once because its painful to listen to the alternate Raph voice. Also, is it just me or was Bebop replaced in one of the EV eipsodes? I can't remember which one but it seemed like his voice was off on one of them...

Funny that you say that.... I've done the same thing...

[Luke795]

If Bebop was, so was Donatello...I'm sure there's one where Raph, Don,Bebop and Shredder are all alternates in the EV arc.

That episode is Ring of Fire.

[Icebot]

I liked Shredder's replacement in red sky and Raphael's season 10 replacement.

[Walkabout]

They've put 2 episodes of the OT on back to back in the dead of night free to air here, just recently saw Cowabunga Shredhead and Leatherhead: Terror of... as it happens.

As a kid it really affected my enjoyment of the cartoon that this would happen in, be it TMNT or others (Inspector Gadget comes to mind, I hated the guy that wasn't Don Adams!)

[Jester]

But...that was....Maurice "The Brain" LaMarche...I assume. He's become the official voice of Gadget since Don's death.

[pannoni1]

Some of the EV episodes were pretty weak though no matter what the voice was, namely "Artless" and "Northern Lights Out." But then you had good episodes like "Tower of Power" and "Turtles on the Orient Express" where Jim Cummings replacing James Avery for most of the EV in addition to the replacement Raph takes away some of the charm.

The Turtle Terminator is a pretty good takeoff on the movie franchise that was ruined by replacement Don/Raphs.

I thought Krang was a little sick in "Cowabunga Shredhead" due to his voice when I was watching it (I could still believe it due to how great Pat Fraley is as a voice actor).

But to me the episodes that were the most ruined due to alternate voices were the later CBS Season 7 episodes with Shredder, namely "Night of the Rogues", "Dirk Savage", "Invasion of the Krangazoids", and "Shredder Triumphant". You can tell Townsend Coleman just can't do a good Shredder impression nearly as much as Uncle Phil can do a Michelangelo impression!

[ryukenden]

Never really did like any episode where Barry Gordon nor Rob Paulsen weren't voicing Don and Raph. Return of the Fly was one example when Don didn't sound the same but Bebop however did. Barry must have had time to do only Bebop for that episode. Townsend was an awful Krang, he should stick with being Mikey. I think Michael Gough did an okay Raph even though I had a tough time sitting through the last two seasons. In Leatherhead's debut episode, was that Kevin Michael Richardson standing in for Shredder? Kind of funny as he is voicing Shredder full-time now on the 2K12 show.

[CyberCubed]

The voices never ruined an episode for me. "The Ninja Sword of Nowhere" is one of my favorite episodes of the show yet its Raph's alternate voice at its worst.

Also is it just me or did anyone else not mind Shredder's alternate voice as much as the Turtles? Whenever Raph or Don had alternates I was disappointed, but I could tolerate all the alternate Shredder voices in the series. None of them had the same pitch or range James Avery did, but they didn't bother me.

[NinjaMan]

I hated when they that. I remember quite a few 80s toons doing that even bothered me when I was a kid. My 4 year old when we watched the Mutagen monster asked me Daddy, what's wrong with Donnie's voice on our first viewing LOL. She told me she didn't like his new voice and wanted the old one back.

[blindturtle02]

Ain't that the truth Jester? Whenever I hear Greg Berg as alternate Don, all I can think of is Muppet Babies since he did Fozzie and Scooter in that one. Jim Cummings and Dorean Harewood were pretty good alternate Shredders. Whoever the guy in season 8 and 10 was did ok as well. Hal Rayle's Raph though. That's a little hard to swallow. I'm being polite lol. It's rumored that Rayle did the vocals for Predator in P2 back in the 90's. Just some of the swears and a few grunts here and there. I wish I could get that confirmed because that'd just be insane. A turtle who leads a double-life. Turtle one day, big game hunting alien the next. Who knew? He also did some voices in that Toxic Crusaders animated series. I liked that show and pity it was only 13 episodes or so. He's a pretty neat voiceover guy but Raph he ain't!

Becca and I are watching 7th Heaven and I came across Dorean Harewood in a live action role not too long ago. He plays some pastor buddy of Eric Camden in that one. So I was like,"Hey babe, Shredder's gone into the ministry!" We both like playing that I Spy game-- her picking out actors she recognizes visually and me doing it auditorily. But I had her shaking her head on that one until I explained he was a Shredhead alternate.

[Jester]

Never really did like any episode where Barry Gordon nor Rob Paulsen weren't voicing Don and Raph. Return of the Fly was one example when Don didn't sound the same but Bebop however did. Barry must have had time to do only Bebop for that episode. Townsend was an awful Krang, he should stick with being Mikey. I think Michael Gough did an okay Raph even though I had a tough time sitting through the last two seasons. In Leatherhead's debut episode, was that Kevin Michael Richardson standing in for Shredder? Kind of funny as he is voicing Shredder full-time now on the 2K12 show.
Bebop's just easier to mimic than Donatello (as Donnie is just Barry's normal voice.) When Donatello is Greg Berg...so is Bebop. As for Shredder it is Dorian Harewood. (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dorian_Harewood) Dorian, oddly enough, also replaced James Avery as War Machine in the 90's Iron Man series.

BT, as kind a odd note, Rob Paulsen did voice over for Aliens action figures where he played one of the characters, Hicks. I misrememberd it as Predator...but the 2 franchises have crossed over before.

[Luke795]

They've put 2 episodes of the OT on back to back in the dead of night free to air here, just recently saw Cowabunga Shredhead and Leatherhead: Terror of... as it happens.

As a kid it really affected my enjoyment of the cartoon that this would happen in, be it TMNT or others (Inspector Gadget comes to mind, I hated the guy that wasn't Don Adams!)

But...that was....Maurice "The Brain" LaMarche...I assume. He's become the official voice of Gadget since Don's death.

Frank Welker didn't voice Dr. Claw, Brain, and MAD Cat for 4 episodes and Frank Welker wasn't even listed in the credits of the Season 2 episodes, but Dr. Claw, Brain, and MAD Cat sounded like Frank Welker.

[blindturtle02]

Oh yeah I remember him as Hicks! I loved those commercials. My friends all thought I was nuts and dismissed the connection though. Those days in the dark ages before everyone had Internet access were trying times indeed! haha Good times nonetheless.

[pannoni1]

I sort of miss the days when credits wouldn't list who would voice who, unless if it was a celebrity voice. Muppet Babies was one of the first cartoons to change this practice, but it wasn't until about ten years ago (think 2k3) when pretty much every show listed each voice actor, and some animated feature movies started the practice, rather directly (Transformers, My Little Pony) or indirectly (The He-Man movie shows the principal character that each voice actor voiced in the opening credits). It also allowed more freedom to have replacement voices by just indicating all the voice actors for a particular season. But the OT turned out to initiate the transition, even if the credits never indicated. In 1990, the production company released a press photo that indicated which character each actor voiced. Some people were aware that James Avery had left the show before the series ended in the early days of the Internet. It was only released to TV stations so most never knew until people had the Internet. But that was a time that people (even adults) didn't care about who voiced a particular character and took it as the character being a bit "sick" or having "laryngitis". After all, whenever a replacement voice actor fills in, he/she needs to fill the regulars' shoes by understanding the characters' background as much as by the original actor, along with providing a voice that makes the audience believe that it comes from the same person. But some of those voices were so different that it felt like a totally different character. I feel that finding out who did the voice is only for those who really want to find out, and in the pre-Internet days that could have meant writing to your local TV station or an entertainment magazine.

[CyberCubed]

Raphael's Season 10 voice was thankfully a good impression of Rob Paulsen's. Couldn't stand the Season 3 and Euro eps for Raph.....so thank god they didn't use him for Season 10.

I actually wish the guy from Season 10 did Raph in the earlier episodes that Paulsen missed...it would have been easier to get through the Euro episodes.

[pferreira]

But to me the episodes that were the most ruined due to alternate voices were the later CBS Season 7 episodes with Shredder, namely "Night of the Rogues", "Dirk Savage", "Invasion of the Krangazoids", and "Shredder Triumphant". You can tell Townsend Coleman just can't do a good Shredder impression nearly as much as Uncle Phil can do a Michelangelo impression!What was James Avery's last episode as Shredder? Also how many episodes had the alternate Krang voice. It was terrible! :o

[blindturtle02]

Raphael's Season 10 voice was thankfully a good impression of Rob Paulsen's. Couldn't stand the Season 3 and Euro eps for Raph.....so thank god they didn't use him for Season 10.

I actually wish the guy from Season 10 did Raph in the earlier episodes that Paulsen missed...it would have been easier to get through the Euro episodes.

Yeah the guy from s10 did do a nice job. You're right, that would have made the European vacation arc much easier to swallow. I think the worst episode was Ring of Fire with Raph screaming about those bulls. Oh man that really makes my ears bleed. I think that one also had Greg Berg as alternate Don.

[cammy85]

What was James Avery's last episode as Shredder? Also how many episodes had the alternate Krang voice. It was terrible! :o

James Avery's last ever Shredder VO was Season 7's White Belt, Black Heart. Trapped in the Gobi Desert, interesting.

[blindturtle02]

That's right! I was thinking White Belt was it for a while now but haven't been able to get to my complete series lately due to closet clutter.

[Jester]

I know I'm glad that James Avery was around for some of the best episodes when they came around in season 7. Legend of Koji would have taken a hit is he wasn't in it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Specific episodes?

Leatherhead:Terror of The Swamp has a repalcement Shredder and Don/Bebop.
Return of The Fly has both a replacement Raphael and Donatello/Bebop.

Agreed about Shredder's voice after season 7 on. Practically every appearance Shredder made from season 7 onwards was some level of very good.

[CyberCubed]

Return of The Fly has both a replacement Raphael and Donatello/Bebop.
.

What episode was that? Raph's only replacement voice in Season 3 was "The Ninja Sword of Nowhere," and, "The Turtle Terminator."

Raphael's voice didn't change again aside from the Euro eps until Season 10.

[blindturtle02]

I know I'm glad that James Avery was around for some of the best episodes when they came around in season 7. Legend of Koji would have taken a hit is he wasn't in it.

I sure wish he'd been able to do voice work in Night of The Rogues since that one's pretty epic. Wish he could have come back and recorded his dialogue. They did that sort of thing with my Injustice videogame and Phil LaMarr coming in to do dialogue for an alternate John Stewart skin. Very cool when such things happen.

[pferreira]

James Avery's last ever Shredder VO was Season 7's White Belt, Black Heart. Trapped in the Gobi Desert, interesting.Thanks for that. But do you know which episodes had the alternate Krang voice as well?

[cammy85]

As far as I recall, "Blast From The Past". "Cowabunga Shredhead" and "Green With Jealousy" had the alternate Krang VA.

[Jester]

I sure wish he'd been able to do voice work in Night of The Rogues since that one's pretty epic. Wish he could have come back and recorded his dialogue.
What's worse is Jim Cummings is AWOL as Leatherhead, replaced by Peter Reneday.

[CyberCubed]

What's worse is Jim Cummings is AWOL as Leatherhead, replaced by Peter Reneday.

Really? I didn't even notice a difference in Leatherhead's voice, and I've rewatched that episode tons of times.

[cammy85]

Yeah, Leatherhead's voice is lacking the tone of Jim Cumming's portrayal. I garontee!!

[InsaneZane]

All of them still bothers me except I always kinda liked alternate Don, but on the same note his Bebop sucks. So its a trade off... Barry its still the better Don. The only alternate Shredder that was acceptable for me is the man Jim Cummings!

[MikeandRaph87]

All of them still bothers me except I always kinda liked alternate Don, but on the same note his Bebop sucks. So its a trade off... Barry its still the better Don. The only alternate Shredder that was acceptable for me is the man Jim Cummings!

Actually Scooter/Don also voicing Bebop was fine. He sounded like he was stopped up but atleast close to Barry's Bebop voice. His Donatello was the same as Scooter's voice however which is underwhelming.

As for Shredder sub I perferr Bill Martin. His seven episodes were all very good and while any other voice will be off I think his voice matches Shredder good enough.

Are voice substitutes a thing of the past or are they still a neccessary evil for production to complete by deadline in today's animation?

[Luke795]

What about episodes like The Making of Metalhead, Shredderville, or Shredder Triumphant.

[InsaneZane]

Raphael is terribly unbearable in Ninja Sword of Nowhere, and that's actually a very good episode minus the ridiculous left turn with the alien antique collectors

[InsaneZane]

Actually Scooter/Don also voicing Bebop was fine. He sounded like he was stopped up but atleast close to Barry's Bebop voice. His Donatello was the same as Scooter's voice however which is underwhelming.


Wasn't there another Donatello alternate? I feel like we're talking about 2 different substitutes

[cammy85]

No, just the two of them. Raphael had three different VAs.

[pferreira]

As far as I recall, "Blast From The Past". "Cowabunga Shredhead" and "Green With Jealousy" had the alternate Krang VA.
Ok, thanks! :)

[Coola Yagami]

I hate the shredder voice in the leatherhead episode. If the title character wasn't so awesome, the shredder voice would have ruined the ep for me.

[Jephael]

I always wished Rob Paulsen had been there to provide the voice of Raphael in the episode "Turtles to the Second Power", especially in that one scene where the present day TMNT are talking to their past selves.

[MikeandRaph87]

I always wished Rob Paulsen had been there to provide the voice of Raphael in the episode "Turtles to the Second Power", especially in that one scene where the present day TMNT are talking to their past selves.

I am okay with that but what bothers me about that episode is the fact the turtles are plucked from "Turtle Trek" instead of "Shredder Triumphant". It would have been interesting to see both art styles by having the '88-'93 look that is mostly associated with the cartoon and related products to this day incorporated into the newer style.

Also,when they inquire to who Carter is Landor mentioned that their meeting of him will be just over two years from "Turtle Trek" which is odd to say their is a two year gap between consecutive episodes whether its between seasons or not and not indentify it right off in " The Unknown Ninja" that time has passed. Especially becuase it was suggested that Shredder and Krang were not done as of "Turtle Trek" when in fact they were for the most part. Still not much time passes I believe between any of the seasons but perhaps its trivial.

[Refractive Reflections]

I am okay with that but what bothers me about that episode is the fact the turtles are plucked from "Turtle Trek" instead of "Shredder Triumphant". It would have been interesting to see both art styles by having the '88-'93 look that is mostly associated with the cartoon and related products to this day incorporated into the newer style.

It would have been interesting to have the two animation styles side by side, but it would have been way too cumbersome considering the animation errors they had throughout the series and trying to separate each distinctive Turtle.

Also,when they inquire to who Carter is Landor mentioned that their meeting of him will be just over two years from "Turtle Trek" which is odd to say their is a two year gap between consecutive episodes whether its between seasons or not and not indentify it right off in " The Unknown Ninja" that time has passed. Especially becuase it was suggested that Shredder and Krang were not done as of "Turtle Trek" when in fact they were for the most part. Still not much time passes I believe between any of the seasons but perhaps its trivial.

LOL, don't even try to figure out how much time passes throughout the whole series. :lol: There's so much conflicting information that I'm willing to assume a whole variety of theories ranging from the series all occurring within one year, to each season being a year (which seems to line up with the references, but... the Turtles wouldn't be "teenagers" anymore :P, and April and Splinter certainly didn't appear to age 10 more years. :lol: Let's not forget Zach who's first seen in 1989 [season 3] and last seen in 1993 (season 7) and still is looking 14 years old.).

Some other pieces of information that throw off the natural timeline versus the characters' aging process:
-"It Came From Beneath The Sewers" - The kids in the fair mentioning they're kids of the 80s
-"Once Upon A Time Machine" - Donatello returning the time machine subway back to 1991.
-"Split-Second" - The Turtles remembering how they captured Chronos the first time (2 years ago) before he assumed his name. (So technically it would be back in 1993, in the old animation style. :P)
-The technology change: The prevalence and presence of the internet, April uses during the Red Sky series; and other smaller technology advancements I'm sure are subtly/casually mentioned.
-The many pop culture references: One example, I think was in "Turtle Trek", Raphael implies a joke about Jurassic Park as he and the Turtles go dimension hopping.

Yeah... when it comes to OT timeline logic, just... don't even bother. :lol:

(Sorry Jester, didn't mean to derail the topic. :oops::D)

[Jester]

Random Alt Voice Question:
Why did Cam Clarke replace Peter Reneday as Pinky McFingers in Donatello's Duplicate when Reneday was in the episode as Splinter...was this part of the "Peter was sick" period where Townsend had to replace him as Master Rat King....er....Splinter?

[MikeandRaph87]

Random Alt Voice Question:
Why did cam Clarke replace Peter Reneday as Pinky McFingers in Donatello's Duplicate when Reneday was in the episode as Splinter...was this part of the "Peter was sick" period where Townsend had to replace him as Master Rat King....er....Splinter?

It is the same timeframe,yes. It could be possible that the lines were not all recordec in the same session. Maybe each actor voiced one character at a time and before Petwr could voice his second character he got sick for that couple of week period in 1991? Just a theory.

In relation,why did Peter voice Leatherhead in Night of The Rouges? Was Jim Cummings unavaialble for the recording session? Peter already had Vernon and if I am not mistaken voice Chrome Dome. Each actor had a limit of three characters per episode in their contracts I recall reading so that would be a fourth voice for Peter that episode.

[Jester]

In relation,why did Peter voice Leatherhead in Night of The Rouges? Was Jim Cummings unavaialble for the recording session? Peter already had Vernon and if I am not mistaken voice Chrome Dome. Each actor had a limit of three characters per episode in their contracts I recall reading so that would be a fourth voice for Peter that episode.
That's more than likely the case...Peter was available, Jim wasn't.

Was Vernon in Night of the Rogues? Wait...yes....Leatherhead took him as a pet.

[MikeandRaph87]

That's more than likely the case...Peter was available, Jim wasn't.

Was Vernon in Night of the Rogues? Wait...yes....Leatherhead took him as a pet.

In other words Peter Renaday took Peter Renaday as a pet! According to tbis fan accurate link both Renaday and Fraley voices four characters! Don't make flexible voice cast like they used to! It was rare to have voice actors like for Mona Lisa, Tempestra,and Smash only doing one voice during the course of the entire series.
http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Night_of_the_Rogues

What I would give to swap out Zack in that episode!

[Jester]

I wonder if there's a minimum number of lines also besides the 3 characters to a contract...because I swear Slash and Chrome Dome don't say much.