Differences between Kevin and Peter

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Do Kevin and Peter have different views on how certain interpretations of the TMNT should be like? Some of you guys have mentioned interesting topics such as Peter seems to be a bit more reserved than the more opened Kevin, Peter has a preference for sci-fi, Kevin is indifferent towards Venus while Peter hates her.

[CyberCubed]

The biggest difference is Peter tends to not like characters created outside of Mirage unless he has direct input like in the 4kids show. Kevin has no problem with writers experimenting with the franchise or using characters from the cartoons.

Another different is PL doesn't like having a lot of mutants as we he feels it makes the Turtles less special. Other than Leatherhead PL disapproves of any other type of animal mutants in the series.

[Andrew NDB]

The biggest difference is Peter tends to not like characters created outside of Mirage unless he has direct input like in the 4kids show.

Another different is PL doesn't like having a lot of mutants as we he feels it makes the Turtles less special.

Those two statements kind of go hand-in-hand.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

ing a lot of mutants as we he feels it makes the Turtles less special. Other than Leatherhead PL disapproves of any other type of animal mutants in the series.

He must hate the Nick show then.

[Shark_Blade]

I dislike his sci fi universe for the turtles (outer space/planetary travel and fast forward). And I dislike Eastman's Venus.

They compliment each other and best when working together.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The biggest difference is Peter tends to not like characters created outside of Mirage unless he has direct input like in the 4kids show. Kevin has no problem with writers experimenting with the franchise or using characters from the cartoons.

Well, what other comic book series does that? The only exception is Harley Quinn. Though, I believe Barbara Gordon was another one.

@Shark_Blade: Did he even have any input on Fast Forward?

[Coola Yagami]

Well, what other comic book series does that? The only exception is Harley Quinn. Though, I believe Barbara Gordon was another one.

@Shark_Blade: Did he even have any input on Fast Forward?

Babs was Batgirl since the 60's or so. Harley Quinn, Livewire, and Mercy Graves all started in the cartoons and made it into the comics later.

Phil Coulson also started appearing in the actual comics too, even though he was made up for the movies.

[snake]

Peter is more of a Sci-Fi guy who thinks mutants and monsters are separate things whereas Kevin likes guns and ultra violent stories. Both are okay on their own but together they make great stories.

[ryukenden]

I suppose to put it mildly:

Kevin is into Mutants and Peter is into Aliens.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I kind of share Peter's dislike of the idea of too many mutants. However, I disagree with him on not allowing other mutants in his stories. I don't mind a few more mutants in the series as long as there aren't too many of them and that the mutants themselves have their own unique personality and motive like Leatherhead. Characters like Quarry were actually pretty interesting. They should explore on the 'mutant' aspect of the series just as much as they should the 'teenage' and 'ninja' aspects.

[Cipher]

As the franchise grew up from its early roots, I get the feeling that Peter (and to a lesser extent, probably Lawson and Murphy) was the driving force of the series starting to take itself seriously. The Turtles, once they had fame and a readership, became Peter's art. He wasn't, of the Mirage writing stable, the deftest at handling them, but I appreciate the direction he pushed.

Kevin, on the other hand, I believe has always viewed the Turtles as just a kind of glorious accident -- he and Peter made a silly book and it made them both rich, and isn't that great? I think the reason he's always given each new incarnation his seal of approval, no matter how insipid, is that he just doesn't care as long as people are enjoying them. His own work on the series usually involves him using the Turtles to indulge his whims of gritty excess -- again, they're just there for him to have fun with.

Both are fine, though I think both are a little extreme with their takes. I vastly prefer Peter's vision for the series, but he was always too stringent when it came to some of his edicts for the franchise outside of comics. And, in some ways, too detached or unable to prioritize. (He'd pop up to say the Turtles can't have fingernails, but then go and approve things like the stunningly mediocre 2007 film.) Kevin, meanwhile, could enforce a little more quality control, as it seems like we're losing a lot of opportunities to bring back what made the Mirage series special. Though to be fair that was never his bag to begin with.

[Shark_Blade]

Peter has his good side too, like preventing Venus from appearing in other tmnt medias, ever, during his tenure.

[Cipher]

Peter has his good side too, like preventing Venus from appearing in other tmnt medias, ever, during his tenure.
Nah, his total embargo on concepts and characters was actually one of the things that always disappointed me about his ownership of the franchise, as much as I, again, enjoyed the direction he took the comics and 4Kids series in.

There's nothing wrong with Venus in concept, if that concept is reduced to the introduction of a fifth, female Turtle. There's everything wrong with the way she was executed in The Next Mutation, but there's not a single aspect of that show I couldn't lob a similar complaint at.

[CyberCubed]

Peter also would have shot down IDW's idea of the Turtles being reincarnated humans in a heartbeat.

[Shark_Blade]

Nah, his total embargo on concepts and characters was actually one of the things that always disappointed me about his ownership of the franchise, as much as I, again, enjoyed the direction he took the comics and 4Kids series in.

There's nothing wrong with Venus in concept, if that concept is reduced to the introduction of a fifth, female Turtle. There's everything wrong with the way she was executed in The Next Mutation, but there's not a single aspect of that show I couldn't lob a similar complaint against.
His embargo keep things in order without going off or too farfetched.

And do explain about this Venus concept you're so fond of. Her being in the same bowl as the other turtles when it all began? Being teached by a shinobi master (same coincidence as the turtles? How cheesily convenient this plot was) And she has magic? That is just ... ew no.

Lovely excerpt from wiki regarding this travesty:

Venus' existence is considered one of the major controversies regarding TMNT history. She was not well-liked by most fans of the series, and to many, felt like a shoehorned Deus ex Machina.

One source of dislike targeting her stemmed from the fact that Next Mutation was one of the few TMNT universes that explicitly stated that the Turtles were not blood relatives (whereas others would either avoid the issue altogether, or specifically state that they were related, such as the 2007 film). This opened up Venus as a romantic interest for any of the other Turtles, specifically Leonardo and Raphael.

Another source would be the inaccurate portrayal of "Shinobi" arts being treated as some sort of magic, and separate from Ninjutsu. In reality, Shinobi (忍び) is simply another word for Ninja (忍者). Furthermore, Chung I, who was from China, was shown as a Shinobi master. While it is not impossible for a Chinese man to have learned the arts, Shinobi/ninja originated from Japan, and thus, this was an extremely uncommon occurrence of a Chinese ninja in media.

The strongest source of discord from the female Turtle would come from general distaste in the Next Mutation series, which to many was seen as poorly written, and containing goofy humor.So thankfully we don't have to deal with Venus in TMNT 2007 or anything of the sort in the future.


Peter also would have shot down IDW's idea of the Turtles being reincarnated humans in a heartbeat.You don't know that. He would or he wouldn't have. OT got Splinter human origin just fine, the reincarnation might not be too far off.

[Leo656]

Bullsh*t. Laird's shooting down of any ideas whatsoever through other TMNT media was almost completely arbitrary, and no objective person could claim it was done to keep things from getting "too far-fetched." The Mirage series itself contained aliens, dinosaurs, time travel, werewolves, vampires, sentient robots, a human being who was "drawn" to life by a magical crystal, not to mention humanoid animals who were mutated by a radioactive ooze and kung-fu fight with pajama-clad ninjas on rooftops and in back alleys while living in a sewer.

I feel like anyone who claims any singular idea as being "too ridiculous" or "too far-fetched" for TMNT doesn't even get it. To me, the entire point of TMNT is a world where absolutely anything can happen! Who in their right mind would want to enforce structure and limitations on something like that? Not that things need to be fantastical or goofy or silly or whatever, but once you start making "rules" and saying "This or that can't ever happen in this universe" you lose a big part of what makes it great in the first place.

I don't believe for a second that Laird ever shot down an idea for simply being "too ridiculous", but rather out of a simple wish for some little bit of creative control. It's not that any idea is inherently "bad", but rather I feel Laird didn't trust that any number of controversial ideas would be executed well enough to justify their existence. That's a completely different thing and he was probably right in most cases to be that way. Other times he probably went overboard, like not allowing Bebop and Rocksteady in the 2K3 show when they probably would have been welcomed by most fans. But I think it had everything to do with not fully trusting the ideas to be executed well, not lack of faith in the merit of the ideas themselves.

There's even a way to make the Venus character work. Nobody will ever even touch it for years, and the only way to do it may be to change everything to a point where she's "Venus" in name and appearance only with an entirely different origin and history, but anything can be done well if someone puts the effort into it. I'm not exactly rooting for it, but it's an idea that at one point, briefly, seemed like a good one to many people. It's the piss-poor way it was executed that made everyone decide it was worthless.

[Cipher]

His embargo keep things in order without going off or too farfetched.

And do explain about this Venus concept you're so fond of. Her being in the same bowl as the other turtles when it all began? Being teached by a shinobi master (same coincidence as the turtles? How cheesily convenient this plot was) And she has magic? That is just ... ew no.
Nope; all of those elements sucked.

But the sudden introduction of 1) another Turtle and 2) a girl Turtle has amazingly f*cked-up storytelling potential. How do they react to that? What is her relationship to them? It would have to be in a universe bold enough to commit to that twist, but there are a lot of interesting routes to go down with what would essentially be a "Sons of the Silent Age" reversal, at least in a non-kid-oriented (or smart kid-oriented) version.

She'd just have to be a completely different character than she was in Next Mutation. And a good character on her own.

Also, agreed with the post above in every way.

[Coola Yagami]

His embargo keep things in order without going off or too farfetched.

And do explain about this Venus concept you're so fond of. Her being in the same bowl as the other turtles when it all began? Being teached by a shinobi master (same coincidence as the turtles? How cheesily convenient this plot was) And she has magic? That is just ... ew no.

Lovely excerpt from wiki regarding this travesty:
So thankfully we don't have to deal with Venus in TMNT 2007 or anything of the sort in the future.


You don't know that. He would or he wouldn't have. OT got Splinter human origin just fine, the reincarnation might not be too far off.

If they wanted they could have made a female turtle without her being in the same bowl as the others or magic and all that other nonsense.

[Technogeek29]

The main problem I see with the 5th Turtle concept weather Male/Female is the role they play in the team. Their either too similar to one of the existing Turtles or just background who is just there.

A role has to be determined and they have to have something unique that sets them apart from the others. When they face Splinter how do they respond to his guidance? Do they accept in blind faith like Leo? Question his methods like Don? Ignore them in favor of their own agenda, Raph? Or introduce their way of insight like Mikey?

[Redeemer]

Babs was Batgirl since the 60's or so. Harley Quinn, Livewire, and Mercy Graves all started in the cartoons and made it into the comics later.

Phil Coulson also started appearing in the actual comics too, even though he was made up for the movies.

Batgirl came from the Adam West tv show in the 60's not the comics.


Also biggest difference between Pl and Eastman is Pl can draw :D

I just dont like Eastman's blocking style.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I really would like to hear Peter's opinion on the Nick toon.

[ssjup81]

If they wanted they could have made a female turtle without her being in the same bowl as the others or magic and all that other nonsense.Getting down to it, how is the existence of Venus any less convoluted as OT Mondo Gecko?

Personally, I liked the concept behind Venus, even with the magical aspect (I also liked the Archie comics where there was magic present)...she was just badly executed and played up too much at the expense of the four main turtles. It's sorta like the Harry Potter movies, imo. They played up Hermione's character so much at the expense of Ron's character, which is why, for me, Ron's portrayal was best in the first two films and the last two films. I was a fan of the books....and I liked Ron's character for them, but seems the movies only focused o his negative aspects and not as much on his positive ones.

Personally, I feel that Venus was never given a fair rap or even much of a chance to redeem the character in another medium. IMO, we could use more female mutants around...and this is why I liked Mona Lisa (OT), Ninjara (Archie, I know she's not a mutant), and Venus (NM).

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Batgirl came from the Adam West tv show in the 60's not the comics.


Also biggest difference between Pl and Eastman is Pl can draw :D

I just dont like Eastman's blocking style.

Barbara Gordon was introduced in the 60s show, Batgirl came out in 1961 and was Betty Kane.

I'm pretty sure I saw Kevin drew a turtle for a fan when he was signing autographs.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Eastman draws... o_0 Or are you talking about who is a "better" artist?
Because then that's totally opinionated and preference to an individual.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Well, what other comic book series does that? The only exception is Harley Quinn. Though, I believe Barbara Gordon was another one.

@Shark_Blade: Did he even have any input on Fast Forward?

Betty Kane was "Bat-Girl" in 1961.
Barbara Gordon was "Batgirl" in 1966 or 1967 ("The Million Dollar Debut of Batgirl"). To my knowledge Season 3 aired in the same year and Batgirl was brought in to boost the otherwise doomed series. The survival of the TV show rested on Batgirl but I do believe she started in the comic and then the show.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

No, I never said Eastman is a better artist because I didn't even know that he doesn't draw. I always thought that both of them were artists and drew the comics.

[Cipher]

They both drew the issues they handled as a team. For the most part, I understand that whenever one penciled a page, the other would ink it, which helped lead to a more uniform style. When they're on their own, even in the early issues (see TMNT Vol. 1 #12 and #14), you can tell just how different their styles are.

If you look closely through the first eleven issues, you can usually spot which one was on penciling duties as well.

[DrSpengler]

They both drew the issues they handled as a team. For the most part, I understand that whenever one penciled a page, the other would ink it, which helped lead to a more uniform style. When they're on their own, even in the early issues (see TMNT Vol. 1 #12 and #14), you can tell just how different their styles are.

If you look closely through the first eleven issues, you can usually spot which one was on penciling duties as well.

Yeah, their collaborative efforts across issues #1-11 are remarkably uniform thanks to their penciling/inking cooperation. And it's pretty impressive considering, as you mention, that their individual styles are so distinctively different.

When looking over those issues, the only time the seams start to show is in regards to April. If you're scrutinizing the art, it can be rather easy to tell who drew her; Laird tended to "over-detail" his human characters with lots of facial lines, often making April look "wrinkled", while Eastman applied more streamlined faces and made April smoother and more attractive.

Typically, their back-and-forth inking masked the incongruities, but not always.

[Tazi]

Peter also would have shot down IDW's idea of the Turtles being reincarnated humans in a heartbeat.
In a different series, other than Mirage? I doubt. He allowed Utrom Shredder (Ch'rell) for 4kids, so why wouldn't he allow something less ridicolous for IDW?

Mirage doesn't had just Leatherhead. They also had Bloodsucker, and Slash (yes, Slash). And well, Radical and Complete Carnage should be considered as mutants too. And there were that Fish-woman Leo met at v2.

Oh, I almost forget... Triceratons and Styracodons! Well, they're not mutants, but then most of Archie's animal characters were not mutants too, and I don't see anyone complaining about not enough mutants being in archie. ;)

[miru]

Peter wanted TMNT to be seen as more mature, while in the process getting rid of many key elements, some of which made TMNT a mainstream hit in the first place: such as zany, yet badass, well-written, and sometimes grotesque-looking anthropomorphic animals, be they mutants (Bebop/Rocksteady, Baxter, Slash, Tokka/Rahzar, Mondo, Ray, Mona Lisa), aliens (Wingnut) or just highly evolved (Ninjara), replacing them with horrific mindless beasts. However, the works were generally better-written, and when they stopped being as good, things got out of hand.

Kevin had a tendency to sell out with such poorly made materials as turtle tunes.

[Klunk1234]

I agree with most of you guys about that Venus character. She would never existed.
If Peter Laird hates the amount of mutants popping out in the new show, then he will not watched.
I'm reading Kevin's new IDW TMNT comics and I love them. Besides he is also the TMNT creator along with Peter. Kevin could make changes (ex. The reincarnation issue) if he likes or Peter, too, not anyone.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

@Tazi: Wait, Slash entered the Mirage comics? When was this?