Does Splinter seem a bit... incompetent?

[Gonstead]

I dunno, to me he comes off a little incompetent in his teaching methods.

An example that comes to mind is where he orders the turtles to switch weapons and expects them to adapt to their new weapon right on the spot. When the turtles fail, he proclaims that a successful ninja is able to use any weapon to their advantage.

The problem with this is... he's only ever trained the turtles to wield their own specific weapon and appears to haven't bothered even giving thought to training them to use other types of weapons or objects.

Does anyone else feel this way?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

No. In short.

The thing with the weapons switching is he was trying to teach them that any object can be a weapon for a true ninja.

[Jester]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=42873

[JH24]

I feel the same way. But more because he send them out into danger. First with switching weapons, which I can understand to some extent. But later on he takes those weapons away. The latter could have had potentially deadly consequences.


Splinter probably felt that throwing his students "into the deep" was the best way to make them learn, but how would he feel if one of them actually got hurt or even worse? What would happen if they had encountered Shredder himself during that time?


However (and like you said in the opening post) I was surprised the turtles didn't know how to wield each other's weapons. That does seem like a flaw in his teaching. If anything, Splinter himself made the turtles over-reliant on their own weapons.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=42873

I think you should be a moderator. You would keep everyone in line.

[Technogeek29]

His methods are questionable, but he hasn't really striked me as imcompent yet. I'm stuck on the fact the Turtles have to be taught the same lesson 3 times. Getting over confident in their abilities and it blowing up in their face.

The Gauntlet- Gets a past beaten just about everything thrown at them

The Pulverizer Returns- Get overconfident again and or very pathetic once they switch weapons. But instead of adapting to said situation like the Comic version of this. They switch back to their original weapons and brag that their all that. I can still justify this however but did we really need this lesson again?

The Mutation Situation- Sigh~ Have the Turtles actually gotten more imature? I get the charm of this version is that they act like actual teens but I wasn't so full of myself I had to learn the same lesson 3 times. And again it blew up in their face, despite his honesty here, I hated Mikey revealing how it was their fault April's dad got mutated. He said it in a way like "oh we just spilled some Mutagen lets us get a rag and clean it right up" ugh..

Hopefully this plot point doesn't happen a 4th time.

[Colonel Schrader]

out of all the Splinters he has done the least.. the only reason he went and battled Shredder was cause April trolled him and he had to show he did something, whole season he didn't do ****. I don't see him doing much this season either, other than maybe fighting Tiger Claw once.

[TurtleTitan97]

No, I have not seen this version of Splinter as incompetent

[Shark_Blade]

This Splinter is the most strict and harsh, like a military general.

He's not soft all the time like other Splinters, that's why I like him the best.

[Konchadunga]

A good general does not tell his troops to abstain from using the most effective weapons they have in the decisive battle of the war. Boot camp is boot camp for a reason: Learn lessons harshly in a way that doesn't kill you, and you might not die on the battleground, but when you're on the battleground, it's not in your interest to add any more complications to your troops' challenge. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for some of Splinter's idiocy.

[victory_angel]

I get Splinters point about the switching weapons because he was trying to teach them to also adapt to things that aren't quite as familiar. And the only reason he took the weapons from them is because they had switched to their original weapons and were bragging about how they won the fight with those weapons. So the only way to get the lesson of adaptability across is to force them to adapt. Which they did by finding objects that were similar to the weapons they were used to.


As for expecting the turtles to fight using the weapons they were unfamiliar with. I believe he was expecting them to have some idea as to how the weapon was used from seeing their brothers use said weapon so many times. And in a way he also expected them to learn and teach each other about how to use the weapon which is a concept they had to figure out on their own. But of course being teenagers none of them consider they had the option...hey my brother knows more about this weapon then I do. Why don't I ask him for a few basics? Because none of them realized they had that option.

So the actual point of the lesson was for them to teach each other. And in turn learn from one another.

[Konchadunga]

But once again, a lesson should not be taught at a time when the world is at stake, if it can be helped. That's selfish and stupid.

[snake]

I think you should be a moderator. You would keep everyone in line.

Was that supposed to be sarcastic? Becuase usually people don't complement others by telling them that they should become a mod. But yeah, Jester should be a mod.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Was that supposed to be sarcastic? Becuase usually people don't complement others by telling them that they should become a mod. But yeah, Jester should be a mod.

Yes, it was sarcasm. (Or was it?:shifty:)

[blindturtle02]

I think you should be a moderator. You would keep everyone in line.

He'd really make a good mod. As for Splinter, I think he's pretty competent. Although he's made a few mistakes as he has freely admitted. I'm thinking of Panic In The Sewers. Like all good teachers, he'd probably admit that he learns something every day and that a person really never stops learning. We'll have to see if he's doing the right thing about Karai though.

[PApagreg]

I like this Splinter but he screwed up BIG, not one of his proudest moments and hopefully hell learn from it

[Slime State Alumni]

Writing hiccups aside, this is the best Splinter I've seen. Hoon Lee's delivery of every line is a thing of beauty.

[BubblyShell22]

Splinter is not incompetent by far. He's a great fighter and drills into his sons that this is a war situation. The thing with the weapons was a mistake, but his lesson was true and he had good intentions on teaching it whether you agree with his methods or not. Parents do make mistakes, but in the end, they are mostly right about everything they do. I think Splinter is awesome and has done a good job with what he's done thus far.

[Bossa Nova]

I don't know if incompetent is the right word to use, but I do feel there is something about this Splinter that isn't quite doing it for me just yet. As others have argued with the whole switching weapons fiasco, another one of my huge issues with Splinter's lesson was the episode (Mousers?) with "A" and "B" team. It was honestly a directly result of Splinter's teaching that this whole rivalry even happened which could have very well killed the turtles. I understand Splinter wanted Leo and Raph to stop bickering, and it's good he stepped up to put a stop to it...but he did it be pinning them against their OTHER brothers who weren't even arguing in the first place.

Um. WHAT?

Yeah, that's a great idea. Build up two of your sons (who already show the most skill and strength in battle), by allowing them to completely belittle your other two children. I don't care who tries to explain this 'reasoning' to me, but it shows extreme favoritism to Leo and Raph on Splinter's part. There were so many other ways to demonstrate to them that they make a good team other than embarrassing and shaming the other members of the team.

[Konchadunga]

Parents do make mistakes, but in the end, they are mostly right about everything they do.

That is a ridiculously naive statement. So parents are by default right to do what they'd do with their children; even in the case where if they had their druthers, the children wouldn't exist? Wrong. I bet you still believe Santa is real, too.

Also, it's easy for us adults to say yeah; Splinter's heart is in the right place even if his head isn't, we admire his ends, if not his means, and being more fallible makes him more fun--but what of the intended demographic? As I said before in my thread about this, they need to make sure they provide a positive model for children to follow, and that means when Splinter seriously goofs, even if they have to throw in some "and knowing is half the battle" segments, they need to point out to children that Splinter was wrong. Do that, and they'd go right from annoying me to getting my immense respect. "Authorities are not always right" is a great lesson to teach children, and there's plenty room to teach that here, and April sort of did, but I wish they did more. If Splinter continues to have stupid ideas, then the need for him to be shown up for that increases.

[Bauer536]

It was just in ONE episode, people. Just because his intention for the weapons lesson was stupid, it doesn't mean he's an incompetent sensei. So he made a mistake. Big deal. At least he still manages to be right. Besides, even the turtles have made mistakes, but none of them are really incompetent.

[BubblyShell22]

That is a ridiculously naive statement. So parents are by default right to do what they'd do with their children; even in the case where if they had their druthers, the children wouldn't exist? Wrong. I bet you still believe Santa is real, too.

Also, it's easy for us adults to say yeah; Splinter's heart is in the right place even if his head isn't, we admire his ends, if not his means, and being more fallible makes him more fun--but what of the intended demographic? As I said before in my thread about this, they need to make sure they provide a positive model for children to follow, and that means when Splinter seriously goofs, even if they have to throw in some "and knowing is half the battle" segments, they need to point out to children that Splinter was wrong. Do that, and they'd go right from annoying me to getting my immense respect. "Authorities are not always right" is a great lesson to teach children, and there's plenty room to teach that here, and April sort of did, but I wish they did more. If Splinter continues to have stupid ideas, then the need for him to be shown up for that increases.

Uh, no, I don't believe in Santa, thank you very much. What I meant by that is that parents do make mistakes, but they do know more than their children, and they are mostly right in the lessons they impart to their children. I don't think his technique was sound, but the lesson he was trying to impart WAS right in that anything can be a weapon and the Turtles will have to adapt to that. That was what I was trying to say.

[bridgegrn]

The entire point of the weapons switch was to drill it into their heads that it shouldn't matter what weapons they have. They need to be ready and effective no matter what. The turtles failed that lesson because they got caught up in their weapons to the point where it affected them in a crucial fight. Then they bragged about it when they deliberately disobeyed him. If I was Splinter I'd be rip **** too. And as proven during the final fight during the episode, it didn't matter what weapons they had, they can get the job done just as well.

I like this Splinter. He doesn't have all the answers but he does what he can and freely admits when he is wrong (a crucial aspect being him confessing that there was a flaw in the way he taught them to fight that lies squarely on him.) He's tough, no nonsense but he cares and he's balancing the father aspect and the teacher aspect the best that he can. I dig it.

[saber16]

Honestly, I don't see the problem with the weapon switch exercise.

The turtles were getting cocky, so Splinter decided to make them put their money where their mouths were and made them switch. It wasn't strict, idiotic or cruel, it was a lesson. He doesn't want his sons to let their egos get the better of them, and likewise- What if they find themselves forced to use a weapon they're not familiar with to fight for their lives? He'd rather them learn first hand while the supply of Foot soldiers were on the weaker side rather than later.

Next, they chose to abandon Splinter's instructions. Not because they were being overwhelmed by foot, but because they were getting frustrated with these new rules.

... Then they carelessly showboated in front of Splinter about how awesome they were again, not learning a thing. He tried going easy on them, they disobeyed him, so now the gloves come off and lets them know he's not messing around.

Now, this where I hear the complaint, "How could he let them go weaponless on a mission to stop the Foot who were armed with Mutagen?"

The Turtles never told him. He didn't know anything about them using Timothy to spy on the Foot, or anything of that.
And the lack of weapons thing was never an issue anyway. The moment they got their, they were able to make temporary weapons to fight off the enemy and held their own nicely.

[Konchadunga]

You still don't it; do you? Priorities! The Turtles may have needed a lesson, but more than that, the world needed saving. Splinter was willing to risk the world for his own ego!

Also, I'd point out Splinter's hypocritical in this regard, because if he truly wanted to teach them that "What weapon you're using doesn't matter," then he should have, and could have done that starting on day one; he should never have allowed the Turtles to choose a preferred weapon to begin with. Years of cross-disciplinary training would have been far better for that than one cram-session.

[Gonstead]

Exactly!

A better method of training would have been "You will be allowed to be trained with a specific weapon of your choosing but you must also be trained in how to use other weapons in case it is unusable."

If this skill is such a basic move for a ninja to learn, Splinter obviously hasn't done a good enough job in actually teaching said basics.

[Shark_Blade]

They're ninjas, they must adapt to changes to survive. And they did.

No biggie.

[bridgegrn]

You still don't it; do you? Priorities! The Turtles may have needed a lesson, but more than that, the world needed saving. Splinter was willing to risk the world for his own ego!

Also, I'd point out Splinter's hypocritical in this regard, because if he truly wanted to teach them that "What weapon you're using doesn't matter," then he should have, and could have done that starting on day one; he should never have allowed the Turtles to choose a preferred weapon to begin with. Years of cross-disciplinary training would have been far better for that than one cram-session. You still don't get it man. The weapons they have should not have mattered! There was no reason why they should have been out of their elements. They can fight with anything or nothing and still get the job done. The turtles were too short sighted to understand that. And Splinter was proven right by the end of the episode.

And do you not even remember that Splinter addressed that in the first episode that he made the mistake of originally training them as individuals? So it makes sense that they each had extensive training using a prefered weapon. Obviously the parameters of their training is different now because the reality of their lives are different now so change is necessary for success. There is no longer time for preferance. The fact is they are at war now and have to be prepared and ready to go. Besides, wasn't the weapons switch before the evil deed of the day came to their attention? And he took their weapons after walking in on them bragging about beating up bad guys while ignoring his lesson forcing them to realize,that the weapons do-not-matter, unless you allow yourself the mistake of thinking that it does matter.

[BubblyShell22]

If Splinter had known about the Foot or anything of that nature, I doubt he would have taken their weapons away. However, he didn't know what was going on and merely saw that his sons were not learning the lesson he was trying to teach them and that they deliberately disobeyed him by not using the weapons he asked them to. When kids disobey, they're punished, and that's what Splinter did. The Turtles still managed to win and do it with other weapons in the process, which was the point of the lesson.

[PApagreg]

They're ninjas, they must adapt to changes to survive. And they did.

No biggie.

No biggie, thay almost died

[Lord Nightwalker]

So far, No. He dose not come across inept to me.

[Shark_Blade]

No biggie, thay almost died
They almost died in most battles, but they didnt.

[saber16]

No biggie, thay almost died

Really? you mean when Timothy mutated himself and attacked them? Yeah, bad Splinter, BAD! Or when Dogpound set the place to blow up? Splinter's fault, man. Or when they could have easily gotten out of their on their own, but stayed behind till the last second to save Timothy? Man, if they had their weapons, none of that would have happened! Damn you, Splinter!

The turtles were not helpless at any point. The lack of weapons taught them to improvise. Splinter is teaching them NOT to rely on their weapons and broaden their perspective. If anything, their problem was less about being armed and more about feeling naked without their established methods of fighting.

[bridgegrn]

No biggie, thay almost died

What's your point? Everytime they fight they are at risk of being killed! Splinter's lesson helps them because now they know they have to be ready and able to fight under any circumstances.

[PApagreg]

Really? you mean when Timothy mutated himself and attacked them? Yeah, bad Splinter, BAD! Or when Dogpound set the place to blow up? Splinter's fault, man. Or when they could have easily gotten out of their on their own, but stayed behind till the last second to save Timothy? Man, if they had their weapons, none of that would have happened! Damn you, Splinter!

The turtles were not helpless at any point. The lack of weapons taught them to improvise. Splinter is teaching them NOT to rely on their weapons and broaden their perspective. If anything, their problem was less about being armed and more about feeling naked without their established methods of fighting.

Still though, not having weapons is a dumb move, I like this Splinter but I will admit if he screwed up or not

[bridgegrn]

Dude you would have failed the lesson lol. Ninja Turtles with weapons can be just as dangerous as Ninja Turtles without weapons (or Ninja Turtles without signature weapons). All they have to do is be able to think outside the box and adapt as needed.

[Coola Yagami]

The problem is they don't. They obviously suck hard unarmed. And when they got makeshift weapons they still grabbed things that are too similar to what they have. Why not have mikey grab the broom or crowbar. Why not have don find a knife. Etc etc

[Technogeek29]

The Free Comic Book Day version handled the weapon switch better "IMO" Heck Mikey had an awesome moment the last few panels.

[saber16]

Still though, not having weapons is a dumb move, I like this Splinter but I will admit if he screwed up or not

... They did have weapons. "Anything's a weapon."


The problem is they don't. They obviously suck hard unarmed. And when they got makeshift weapons they still grabbed things that are too similar to what they have. Why not have mikey grab the broom or crowbar. Why not have don find a knife. Etc etc

Splinter said improvise. He said use anything as weapon, he didn't say how.

[Bossa Nova]

... They did have weapons. "Anything's a weapon."


Splinter said improvise. He said use anything as weapon, he didn't say how.

Problem is, you can tell someone to do just about anything. It doesn't mean they're going to know how, especially their first time around, and especially if they're under stress because they're in a situation that could cost them their life. Sure, these guys have been training a better portion of their lives, but that doesn't make them martial art geniuses that can pick up a new technique at the drop of a hat. ALL new techniques take much practice, and throwing them into the fray and "forcing" them to learn on the spot is just stupid.

[ShreddHedd]

They weren't supposed to take much practice, that was the point. They're ninjas that have trained specifically in a weapon, but if you look in their dojo, they have weapons hung on the wall. It's more likely that they've trained in different weapon, just not as much as their main ones. They've trained all their lives to have the ability to fight, and that means using anything necessary, they were just so caught off guard with their weapons being taken away that it threw them off. Which is obviously why they WERE able to fight in the end by being resourceful, even without training. It may have been a bit foolhardy, but it was a valuable lesson to teach cocky teenagers.

On that note, I don't think Splinter is incompetent at all. I think he's strict and focused in his beliefs. He is an aged man and a lot of the situations you guys talk about is irony. WE, the viewers, know what the turtles are getting into, but Splinter only knows so much. He has no idea exactly what they are doing or how much trouble they end up getting into. He just knows that he has to prepare them for whatever comes their way, especially a moment where they don't have their weapons.

[blindturtle02]

They weren't supposed to take much practice, that was the point. They're ninjas that have trained specifically in a weapon, but if you look in their dojo, they have weapons hung on the wall. It's more likely that they've trained in different weapon, just not as much as their main ones. They've trained all their lives to have the ability to fight, and that means using anything necessary, they were just so caught off guard with their weapons being taken away that it threw them off. Which is obviously why they WERE able to fight in the end by being resourceful, even without training. It may have been a bit foolhardy, but it was a valuable lesson to teach cocky teenagers.

On that note, I don't think Splinter is incompetent at all. I think he's strict and focused in his beliefs. He is an aged man and a lot of the situations you guys talk about is irony. WE, the viewers, know what the turtles are getting into, but Splinter only knows so much. He has no idea exactly what they are doing or how much trouble they end up getting into. He just knows that he has to prepare them for whatever comes their way, especially a moment where they don't have their weapons.

Good stuff, dude.

[BubblyShell22]

Definitely agree with SH here. Well said.

[JH24]

Problem is, you can tell someone to do just about anything. It doesn't mean they're going to know how, especially their first time around, and especially if they're under stress because they're in a situation that could cost them their life. Sure, these guys have been training a better portion of their lives, but that doesn't make them martial art geniuses that can pick up a new technique at the drop of a hat. ALL new techniques take much practice, and throwing them into the fray and "forcing" them to learn on the spot is just stupid.

I agree. While I understand what Splinter was trying to teach them, forcing them to learn in the heat of battle was not a good idea.

Splinter may not have known what the turtles were doing in that episode, but even a standard night patrol could end in a Shredder or Kraang ambush. At the very least he should have trained them to get a basic knowledge of different weapons, and/or gather a whole bunch of junk and put the turtles through a test where they have to improvise.


Splinter is definitely not incompetent, in fact he's a great teacher (just look how they're holding their own against the Foot/Kraang) and we all know the turtles have the skills to adapt in the end.

But the way he forced it on them (even though they were showing off) doesn't sit right with me. Shredder is still out there, they could have gotten injured or even killed. But that's just a matter of opinion.

[bridgegrn]

I believe they do have basic knowledge, just not as much as they have in their preferred weapons. I mean during the first episode for example Raph was twirling Don's bo. I'm sure he can defend himself, he's probably just nowhere near as skilled with it as Don. The turtles issue was that they didn't even attempt to adapt. They just kept fighting how they typically fought and then complained instead of making the necessary adjustments.

[Rooish]

This Splinter kind of sucks. If he is such a good fighter why doesn't he go do something? Why does he keep sending his sons to do the dirty work instead of hiding out and doing God knows what? Then he is constantly snarky and belittling to them. I don't think he's incompetent, but he's short-sighted, egotistical, and cowardly.

[Konchadunga]

Something else: Despite Splinter's allegedly necessary lesson, it's likely it will never be relevant again in this whole series. Trademark weapons are just that; sure, the Turtles will probably improvise again in the future, but as has been said, they also improvised just fine in the past, to the point there really wasn't a lesson to be had.

[Krang100]

To me, Spliner wasn't incompetent, if the Turtles fail in their lession, is because their inexperience, because the rely in their favorite weapons. In fact Master Splinter is a great advisor and any of his advices are very useful to the turtles. He excepts one day they'd become a greatest ninjas as he is.

In the final episode of season 1 take down without problem Dogpound and Fishface, and even beat Shredder. The turtles has a lot of problem to handle one of them. Maybe Donatello is my favorite turtle, but Splinter is my favorite character.