View Full Version : Why wasn't Karai in the 80 series?
Leofan26
11-02-2013, 05:01 PM
Why just introduce her in the 2003 series? She's been here for along time, did they think she'd feel out of place in the 80's series :-?
TurtleTitan97
11-02-2013, 05:02 PM
Because she wasn't created till 1992 and was still a minor character?
Powder
11-02-2013, 05:08 PM
Because she wasn't created till 1992 and was still a minor character?
This. Not to mention they already had Lotus Blossum.
CyberCubed
11-02-2013, 05:11 PM
Lotus Blossom filled the same role.
Karai wasn't created till the OT was in Season 6 and at that point she was an obscure Mirage character.
snake
11-02-2013, 05:23 PM
Becuase Karai first appeared in City at War, which was pretty late in the OT.
Plus they had Lotus Blossom, the original Karai.
Leofan26
11-02-2013, 05:27 PM
HA I remember that episode, it was one of my favorites of the 80's. wonder why they got rid of Lotus? They could have done more for her :-?
pannoni1
11-02-2013, 06:24 PM
Karai also had appeared in the Genesis' Tournament Fighters (around Season 7 of the OT), and Red Sky could have been the best hope for her appearance in that series, which is a shame given the shift in tone. It seems like the OT team never followed the later comics or even video games.
As for getting rid of Lotus, she was basically a secondary character who never had an action figure or appearance in a video game or comic, and the title of the second episode seemed like an appropriate send-off for the character.
Redeemer
11-02-2013, 06:33 PM
Because she wasn't created till 1992 and was still a minor character?
Yep
This. Not to mention they already had Lotus Blossum.
and yep :P
As mentioned above they could have introduced her in the "Red Sky" era but maybe they just wanted to keep her in the Mirage universe :ohwell:
She wasn't around when it started, plus Playmates probably didn't want to do a toy of her.
Ninjinister
11-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Do we really need everyone to give the same answer over and over?
Karai also had appeared in the Genesis' Tournament Fighters
And the SNES version....
Do we really need everyone to give the same answer over and over?
I'm guessing it's so they can get thier post counts up.
Candy Kappa
11-04-2013, 01:24 AM
There where no need for Karai in the Fred Wolf cartoon as the idea of having karai as an underling wasn't present yet and Shredder was de facto sole leader of the Foot clan (although Splinter had the rights to be leader) instead of a faction leader.
DarkLightDragon
11-04-2013, 07:46 AM
Because having two Karais running around in one show is silly.
ryukenden
11-04-2013, 10:53 AM
It would have been nice if Karai had been conceived much earlier and been on the show. Bringing her in during the Red Sky seasons would have been pointless as Shredder would rarely show up.
Ryan in austin
11-04-2013, 11:00 AM
Because having two Karais running around in one show is silly.
And if there's one thing the OT stayed away from, it was being silly.
:twink:
Also, they didn't use very many Mirage characters. It was mostly original characters. It was pretty much it's own universe from the start, and never really was meant to be a translation of the comics. It would have been awesome to see the Elite Foot, triceratons (more than just one episode), Karai, and others, but the OT was it's own thing, not a comics adaptation.
DarkLightDragon
11-04-2013, 11:31 AM
Touché', good sir.
Ryanator008
11-04-2013, 07:11 PM
I'm guessing it's so they can get thier post counts up.
People still do that? :trolleye:
I like to think that Lotus Blossom is the title for Karai, similar to how Oroku Saki is The "Shjredder", Karai is "Lotus Blossom". It doesn't matter that it's not her, I consider her the OT version of Karai. Now I actually wonder if 2k3 Karai was inspired by Lotus Blossom, I'm guessing it's just coincidences
CyberCubed
11-04-2013, 07:50 PM
I like to think that Lotus Blossom is the title for Karai, similar to how Oroku Saki is The "Shjredder", Karai is "Lotus Blossom". It doesn't matter that it's not her, I consider her the OT version of Karai. Now I actually wonder if 2k3 Karai was inspired by Lotus Blossom, I'm guessing it's just coincidences
The mere fact that Leonardo had a crush on Lotus in the OT, and this carried over to 4kids Karai and now Nick Karai says a lot in itself. Leo/Karai had no dynamic in Mirage at all.
Yet the cartoons keep playing with Leo/Karai having admiration for each other.
Candy Kappa
11-05-2013, 12:45 AM
Because having two Karais running around in one show is silly.
yes, a ninja for hire and a Foot Clan leader.
OMG They are both asian chicks! Same character!
Coola Yagami
11-05-2013, 07:06 PM
Lotus was no Karai. There can be more than one female ninja you know. Plus, Karai was NOT Shredder's subordinate. That was 2K3's idea, so the OT didn't have to go the same route.
Red Sky could have taken advantage that Shredder was trapped in Dimension X and bring in the Japan Foot and have a side-story aside from the Dregg bs. Totally missed op there.
Missed opportunity? That arc would be too ambitious for the OT. The OT already has enough missed opportunities based on their own universe and rules...
Because having two Karais running around in one show is silly.And having four Mike's running around in one show wasn't?
CyberCubed
11-06-2013, 01:28 PM
And having four Mike's running around in one show wasn't?
Uh.....no.
But why is that? Why are four mutant turtles ok but you can't have two female ninjas?
MsMarvelDuckie
11-06-2013, 10:10 PM
Because there are enough similarities between them that it would have been too confusing. Both were female ninjas, yes, but they also were both "enemies" to the turtles in some way, and both had ties to Shredder. (Karai from the Foot, Lotus was hired by Krang) Then there is the Leo crush thing with both of them (at least in the cartoons). It's too much similarity to warrant having BOTH of them in one show. And since the OT was nearing its end by the time Karai was even introduced in the comics, it would have been pointless to have her there. They never even gave a proper resolution to the Mikey/Kala thing, much less Lotus, so even that angle really wouldn't have fit. (And it wasn't in Mirage, anyway.)
Casey
11-06-2013, 10:18 PM
I was just wondering the same thing the other day, but forgot to research it. I love it when this forum comes in handy and provides some new information. Of course we all really just come here to take part in the fanboy sass and attempt to one up each other right?
Then there is the Leo crush thing with both of them (at least in the cartoons).But the Leo crush was invented for the 4Kids series, so it most likely wouldn't have happened if Karai did appear in the OT.
CyberCubed
11-07-2013, 12:16 PM
I was just wondering the same thing the other day, but forgot to research it. I love it when this forum comes in handy and provides some new information. Of course we all really just come here to take part in the fanboy sass and attempt to one up each other right?
You mean you didn't know Karai wasn't created until 1992, which is by the time the OT was already in Season 6?
Panda_Kahn_fan
11-07-2013, 12:53 PM
I've actually heard some people say 'Lotus ain't got nothin on Karai' and call Louts a Karai rip-off. Yet Lotus Blossom predates Karai, and most of the non-mirage traits the average turtles fan associates with Karai originated with lotus.
MsMarvelDuckie
11-07-2013, 05:30 PM
Indeed. And more interestingly, (IMHO) Lotus was not a member of any ninja clan- she was SELF-taught! So she actually DOES have something on Karai, she learned on her own initiative, by actively seeking out teachers, and doing it all for her own goals, rather than being raised by any particular clan or training under the same sensei her entire life. I'd say that actually makes her the better kunoichi. (And she was here FIRST!!)
MsMarvelDuckie
11-07-2013, 05:41 PM
But the Leo crush was invented for the 4Kids series, so it most likely wouldn't have happened if Karai did appear in the OT.
No, it originated with Lotus. Since 4Kids version of Karai is based more on her, then it would never have happened if it had not been in the OT FIRST. (Mirage had no Leo'Karai "crush", but OT most definitely DID have the crush aspect between him and the female ninja. Apparently, he's ALWAYS had a thing for "bad girls"....)
And since Karai never even existed in the OT, saying it wouldn't have happened with her is a moot point. The "original" one WAS there, and it DID happen.
Coola Yagami
11-07-2013, 06:00 PM
That depends on how much of the OT the 2K3 writers even watched. I still say it could been done. Let Karai lead the true Foot Clan in Shredder's absence. Hell, it would be a good excuse to bring Lotus in for a third episode to have both female ninjas face off.
Quite literally, Karai in the OT would have explained what exactly happened to the Foot Clan in Japan when Shredder moved to New York and replaced everyone with robots.
MsMarvelDuckie
11-07-2013, 06:18 PM
That depends on how much of the OT the 2K3 writers even watched. I still say it could been done. Let Karai lead the true Foot Clan in Shredder's absence. Hell, it would be a good excuse to bring Lotus in for a third episode to have both female ninjas face off.
Quite literally, Karai in the OT would have explained what exactly happened to the Foot Clan in Japan when Shredder moved to New York and replaced everyone with robots.
But he DIDN'T replace all of them- the "real" Foot Clan was busy running all his phony businesses in New York- you know, like all those "Ninja Pizza/Laundromat/Dentist" places the turtles kept running across in some episodes. He evidently took them all with him to New York, and then apparently turned them into the public face of his criminal empire. Makes sense that he'd do that, since he needed someone to keep up with his criminal network while he was tooling around in the Technodrome! Heck, he even had a few women working for him- like the secretary of that "security" company he used to clean out high-tech firms in the first episode. So there WAS still a "Foot Clan", the robots were just easier to replace as fighters.
As for a Lotus/Karai face-off- that wouldn't even make sense. There were no other factions of the Foot in the OT, unless one counts Splinter and the turtles as one- which they should be, given that he was the TRUE leader of the clan in that version. Which makes his feud with Shredder even more personal. Karai had no reason to even be there at all. Lotus did.
Garfield
11-10-2013, 11:06 AM
I think people blow 2003 Leo and Karai's relationship out of proportion a bit. I don't recall there ever being a crush between the two. Admiration, friendship and then confrontation but no crush that I recall. 87 Leo and Lotus' was a romantic one though.
I don't deny that there are parallels between 87 Leo and Lotus and 2003 Leo and Karai, but I don't know if we can say for a fact that 2003 Karai was influenced by lotus without any evidence from the people who worked on the 2003 toon stating as such. For all we know, the parallels could be just a coincidence.
As for why Karai didn't appear in the 87 toon? Who knows? maybe the people who worked on the cartoon didn't know she existed. Karai was a very obscure character at the time. Would it have been cool to see her...sure it would have. But in retrospect, I had no expectations for her.
Leofan26
11-10-2013, 03:45 PM
I wonder what she would have been like in the 80's series? We kind of saw that in the 80's / 2003 crossover movie but not much of her. It had romance in that series so I wonder if Leo really would had a crush on her?
Cipher
11-10-2013, 04:42 PM
I've actually heard some people say 'Lotus ain't got nothin on Karai' and call Louts a Karai rip-off. Yet Lotus Blossom predates Karai, and most of the non-mirage traits the average turtles fan associates with Karai originated with lotus.
Right, but none of the Mirage traits. The "non-Mirage traits" weren't a thing until 2004, nearly fifteen years after Lotus Blossom's last appearance, and what similarities they share are such general tropes I'd bet solid money on them being nothing more than absolute coincidence.
But, yeah, I agree with certain other posters here that it kind of rubs me the wrong way when they say Lotus Blossom and Karai are just overlapping characters. There's the whole "What, just because they're two ninja women thing?", but I'll be fair and acknowledge that there are indeed character similarities between her and the 4Kids and Nickelodeon Karais. However, had something approximating the Mirage Karai, the only existing version at the time, been introduced to later seasons of the cartoon, there'd be no reason to anticipate an overlap.
On that note, it's kind of a bizarre miracle that we got a randomly faithful portrayal of Karai in TMNT Tournament Fighters as her only non-comic appearance before the end of the '90s. Does anybody know what was up with that?
I think people blow 2003 Leo and Karai's relationship out of proportion a bit. I don't recall there ever being a crush between the two. Admiration, friendship and then confrontation but no crush that I recall. 87 Leo and Lotus' was a romantic one though.
You're dead-on. I don't think there was any romantic subtext in the 4Kids series, intentional or otherwise. There is a distinct Leo/Karai rivalry, but it's very much about one trying to convert another warrior to the others' perspective, and later sheer animosity. The Nickelodeon series is the only version to begin (though it's since been dropped) with some one-sided interest from Leonardo, and it works there with the younger characters and playing off the April/Donatello plot.
Indeed. And more interestingly, (IMHO) Lotus was not a member of any ninja clan- she was SELF-taught! So she actually DOES have something on Karai, she learned on her own initiative, by actively seeking out teachers, and doing it all for her own goals, rather than being raised by any particular clan or training under the same sensei her entire life. I'd say that actually makes her the better kunoichi. (And she was here FIRST!!)
Well, to be pedantic, not over all Karais. IDW's Karai has been one of the characters in the series to really grow on me, and the fact that she basically refounded the ninja side of the Foot from the ground up and is hyper-motivated/totally vicious are big reasons why. I hope she gets her chance to shine once Shredder's gone.
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/3210/ik42.jpg
CyberCubed
11-10-2013, 04:47 PM
Raphael calls Karai, "Leonardo's lady friend" in 2k3.
Whether there was romantic subtext or not, Raphael did comment on it.
Cipher
11-10-2013, 04:51 PM
Raphael calls Karai, "Leonardo's lady friend" in 2k3.
Whether there was romantic subtext or not, Raphael did comment on it.
That's thin enough to sneeze through and a total throwaway line.
There wasn't. The 4Kids series just hit the wrong batch of LiveJournal-type fans.
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