Is Donatello playing the role of Shredder?

[JTH]

Many of us from the start believed that the Donatello/April/Casey arc was going to play out like the Splinter/Tang Shen/Shredder arc. And it seemed everyone assumed that Donnie would play the role of Splinter since he was the hero and Casey was the vigilante.

But after seeing the new episode today, a weird thought played out in my head; Donnie looks like he's playing the role of Shredder in this angle.

Losing the girl that he never really had, and going from sad and depressed to becoming bitter and upset because "he's the outcast", and in the end becoming obsessed with trying to get her back, ultimately costing him everything.

Then the lecture he had with Splinter during the episode is when I really started getting this vibe, obviously Splinter would be the first to notice if these feelings Donnie was experiencing could result in this.

Anyone getting this vibe?

[Konchadunga]

No; I can't say I was. Maybe the writers will do something with the comparison, but I wouldn't be surprised if they never thought of this.

I would say the big difference is that Oroku Saki probably wasn't a nice guy even before going off the deep end for Tang Shen, and becoming Shredder, but then, Splinter says they were once friends, so who knows? Still, Don is nowhere near the point of becoming evil to get her back; particularly after Mutagen Man rubbed his nose in the prospect.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, I did sort of get this vibe from the episode especially with Splinter telling Don that he can't force April to come back. Shredder I believe was probably trying to force Shen to like him even though she was married to Yoshi and was perfectly happy, so I can see where Splinter would notice this and try to deter Don from going the same way.

[DonatelloNinja82]

I don't know if I can see Don ever going "evil" like Saki, but I can see the parallels in the situation.

[Shark_Blade]

Nah, he won't.

Maybe a Dark Leo but who knows, maybe a Dark Donnie could be nice too.

[Riel]

This is actually a really interesting idea, but I doubt that Don becomes evil or anything, but I could really see Splinter seeing this parallel and being worried. It would be interesting to see one of the turtles acting evil, but I hope it doesn't happen this way. In my opinion there has been way too much Don drooling after April, it's time to move on or something before it gets more creepy than it already is.. I never thought I would be wondering if Donnie is becoming like the Shredder, heh.

[DarkLightDragon]

If he did, the love triangle thing would be more grating than it already was since losing April would be a big factor for it after all.

So no, the turtles can be interesting or be given interesting dynamics without giving them love interests or just make them evil even if it'll obviously be temporary.

[victory_angel]

I've actually been theory that Donnie/April/Casey may be a mirror to Hamato/Teng/Oroku as early Rise of the Turtles. (And considering that I didn't get into this incarnation until episode 21- Karai's vendetta had aired that says something.)

In fact this mirror triangle was sort of hinted in Rise of the Turtles part 1 in the moment where Donnie voices that it is their responsibility to rescue April and her father. And he vows to rescue April's father because he felt that he owed April that. Yes he does this because he feels it will endear her towards him, but that is that desire isn't as prominent as he makes it seem. I truly believed that he wanted to find and rescue April's dad, because he felt like it was the right thing to do regardless of what he personally gets out of it.

One of the over-arcing themes in this series is choices and the consequences of said choices.

-Teng Shen choosing Hamato Yoshi as her husband -Resulting in the Friendship between Hamato Yoshi & Oroku Saki comes to an official end.

-Yoshi choosing to answer Oroku's insults and threats-Resulting in the farce between them.

-Oroku Saki choosing to let his jealousy consume him-Resulting in Teng Shen's unfortunate demise.


In the other in carnations Casey Jones has been a friend and ally to the turtles. But in the other incarnations it was a given that April and Casey would be a couple was practically a given from the first moment they are introduced to each other.

In the 2003 series there were some implied hints that Donnie does have a crush on April. But that crush it ultimately goes no where.

This is the first incarnation where any of the Turtles can match age with April and thus being a source of competition for April.

The private lesson with Splinter was because the wise rodent had overheard Donnie complaining about the fact he had seen April with another boy and how that was upsetting to him because the said boy is things he's not (i.e. Casey is human while Donnie's a mutant.) And he knew from experience that only disaster could result from it.

While Splinter wasn't exactly stated that Donnie is heading down the Shredder's path. He did give a choices lesson of "You can't force someone to like you, just because you want them to." which is more likely a lesson he wished his former friend had learned. But his statement of "For one so Brilliant, the obvious eludes you" was also his way of saying "You know my story and you are a better person then the Shredder. Do you want to repeat his mistakes?"

And even the talk Splinter has at the end was saying that Donnie still has a chance to be with April, but in the end it is April's decision that will be absolute and how he chooses to accept her decision will determine his character.

If the upcoming Triangle between D/A/C wasn't going to be an issue that will pop up through out this season and possibly next season (Unknown if it goes further then that) then wouldn't have Splinter used the "Teach you to like falling." Lesson back when Donnie was blatently flirting with April.

In this regard there are two roles Donnie and Casey can follow. The role of Hamato Yoshi and defending the woman he loved from an upstart who couldn't take no for an answer. Or Oroku Saki a man who couldn't accept the girl he loves had chosen another man as her husband.

However one prominent difference between the H/T/O and the D/A/C triangles is that when Hamato and Oroku fought, Teng Shen's feelings didn't matter. It was more a decision over who had ultimate right to possess her.

With Donnie however while he is more then likely going to fight for her...ultimately her happiness will matter to him more then overall having her as his paramour. And that will be a deciding factor in this situation.

[bridgegrn]

Nope, I don't think that's where they are going at all. Donatello is just a genuinely good guy, he'd never even consider going down a path like that. He's going to be sad, and jealous and they'll probably bump heads but Donnie is the type who'll swallow his pride if Casey was in trouble and save his life. Don would never get that far gone.

[JTH]

Appreciate everyone's take, however I think most didn't get what I meant. When I said "Playing the role of Shredder", I didn't literally mean turn evil and go bad, I simply meant playing the role of Saki to Tang Shen, where he did everything to try and make April choose him, almost obsessed like, even though he clearly sees that she will choose Casey, and he just can't accept it; much like Shredder tried to get Tang Shen even though it was clear that she chose Yoshi.

That's why I've always been confused to everyone's dismay about the whole Donnie/April thing. I keep hearing people say when referring to Donnie, "Why is everything about Donnie revolved around April, it makes it look like he's obsessed with her."

And since I came to this assessment, my reply has been:

"What if that's the whole point?"

[sirroscoe]

I understood exactly what where you was getting at. It answers the question "how can Shredder desire something (or someone) that was committed to someone else?". And we're seeing it play out with Donnie's crush on April. Except that was nothing to intervene with Shredder's obsession unlike Donnie with Splinter and the other Turtles.

[victory_angel]

As I have pointed out, before. And over arcing theme of this particular incarnation is the choices one makes and the consequences that result from said choices.

The Shredder chose to let his Jealousy consume him. He chose to attack the friend he one lost as a brother and that resulted in the death of the woman he loved. And even now he refuses to accept his guilt in the matter.

I don't see Donnie becoming the Shredder, but rather he we would be more like what Hamato Yoshi's life would have been like if Teng Shen had chosen, Oroku Saki as her perspective suitor.

For example as much as he does want April to be his girl friend he doesn't claim her as such because she hasn't reciprocated his feelings. All he can really say is that she is a friend who happens to be a girl.

Also when he sees April with Casey, he doesn't confront her about him or even lets on that he's aware of Casey's existence. In fact after he sees them standing together in the ice rink the look on his face clearly says he is reluctantly accepting the fact he may have lost her.

All he has to cling too is a vain hope that yes things may go in his favor. And while there is still going to be a level of tension between Donnie and Casey I still believe Donatello may have the maturity to be the better man and stand aside once April has decided who her consort should be.

[BabyTurtles]

I'm bumping this up......cause the latest episode.

Donnie's is getting a little obsessed with April.....

and he's already becoming a jerk to Casey....yea..this is not gonna end well.

Donnie needs to take 2 steps back.

[Shred87]

I see where you guys are going with this.... I thought splinter calmed this down with the "lets practice falling down until you like it" routine.... interesting thoughts... interested to see if it plays out this way

[FoxBoxKid]

I want April to give Donnie a "The Reason You Suck Speech" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReasonYouSuckSpeech), causing him to have a heroic BSOD (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicBSOD.), finally realizing how acting weird around his crush is not the best way to woo her, and accepting that she will never see him that way.

[Eiko]

I would love to see Don get so jealous that he goes like Shredder I know prob never happen though.

[BabyTurtles]

I would love to see Don get so jealous that he goes like Shredder I know prob never happen though.

I wanna see him get so jealous that he actually fights Casey too seriously

April tries to stop him...causing some mishap IDK

then Donnie realizing that his crush is going too far and that he needs to accept April just won't like him that way.

ya know...before turning into a mini shred head XD

or something like that....

I see more development for Donnie if he gets turned down than if he actually wins April.

and can this happen THIS season so we can get it over with? PLEASE.

[Shark_Blade]

I would love to see Don get so jealous that he goes like Shredder I know prob never happen though.Since we've been getting Dark Leo in 2k3 and IDW, a nice change with Dark Donnie would be nice I reckon. :)


I wanna see him get so jealous that he actually fights Casey too seriously

April tries to stop him...causing some mishap IDK

then Donnie realizing that his crush is going too far and that he needs to accept April just won't like him that way.

ya know...before turning into a mini shred head XD




This... actually sounds similar to a comic I made ("Donatello vs Casey Jones") :tlol:

[victory_angel]

It wouldn't surprise me if in an upcoming episode Casey actually asks April, Raph, or maybe Donnie to his face about what his problem is. I didn't entirely get the impression that Casey knows that Donnie has a crush or feelings for April, but I did get the hint that he is suspecting it.

At least we aren't getting the love starved puppy Donnie from season 1 any more.

[Eiko]

Since we've been getting Dark Leo in 2k3 and IDW, a nice change with Dark Donnie would be nice I reckon. :)





That would be cool to see a Dark Don. He could go work for Shredder therefore Shredder would have no use for Baxter and have Baxter go with the Turtles.

[Shark_Blade]

That would be cool to see a Dark Don. He could go work for Shredder therefore Shredder would have no use for Baxter and have Baxter go with the Turtles.
Nice! Or Shredder could just mutate Baxter into Fly Baxter. :D

[victory_angel]

That would be cool to see a Dark Don. He could go work for Shredder therefore Shredder would have no use for Baxter and have Baxter go with the Turtles.

If Donnie works for the Shredder it would be against his will not because he wants to.

[Eiko]

If Donnie works for the Shredder it would be against his will not because he wants to.

Yea I realize this but still think would be pretty cool.

[shuriken]

No.
Because not everything is black and white when it comes to crushes and liking someone.

[jezza]

I think Donnie will end up letting it go in the end. One thing this show is doing, is making it clear that the Turtles are willing to learn, both in their training and with normal life lessons. One thing I think Donnie will do, is eventually realise that he adores April enough to let her live a more human life, probably not before exploiting April's mutant routes to see if there is a way for them to be together that way.

The way I see it. He will see April and Casey become closer, realise that it's for the best that they have each other and be the humble friend who respects it.

[kolaida]

I wasn't really picking up on that, but I can see how there are some similarities. I think Donnie can see the April/Casey coming and isn't too excited for it. I can't really fault Donnie for wanting something special with someone (and sometimes crushes can be overwhelming). Just like I couldn't fault Leo for it, he just seems to have come to terms with it much quicker than Donnie (probably helps that Karai was trying to kill them, lol).

Even thought the Apritello (or whatever it's called) can be grating at times, sometimes it does make for some pretty awesome stuff! I loved that one scene with Raph and Leo when Raph owned up to telling Donnie he had no shot with April.

Leo: "Why would you say something like that?"

Raph: "Because he has no shot with April!"

Leo: "Well, yeah, but! You don't TELL him that!" xD

I'm not so sure about the whole evil Donnie thing, though (thought I DO like some evil Donnie in Ninja Gaiden). I would like to see how he responds to April/Casey, though. And Casey'll obviously be around a lot, but that's something that Donnie'd have to deal with anyway at one point, whether it be Casey or some other male (or female!) human.

I'm with jezza here, I think he'll just let it go and learn to live with it.