So apparently there are hundreds of TMNT characters according to Nick

[CyberCubed]

If you listened to Andrew's TMNT podcast with Ciro Nieli, he said that Nick gave him a list of characters he could legally use for the Nick show...and it came up to hundreds of characters.

It's something to think about, because out of hundreds of characters there are what....maybe 25-30 essential or popular TMNT characters that are re-used, while the others are forgotten into obscurity?

It really makes you realize how many characters there are in TMNT, if you combine Mirage/Fred Wolf/4kids/Nick/IDW/Archie/Playmates characters all together and think of everyone.

[Shark_Blade]

Maybe includes some undisclosed/work-in progress characters too by past artists including Eastman and Laird?

[sdp]

More interesting would be to know which characters they can't use, so this podcast had fan questions? someone should ask him about The Next Mutation characters and whether Viacom or Saban owns them..
What were other characters we used to debate about? I remember some of the characters in the TMNT videogames, especifically Aska who was popular with the fandom, but there were others like the mutant panda from TMNT II. Have there even been other game exclusive characters in other games?
Also some of the TMNT Adventures characters were debated right? I remember Ninjara being one of them.

[miru]

More interesting would be to know which characters they can't use, so this podcast had fan questions? someone should ask him about The Next Mutation characters and whether Viacom or Saban owns them..
What were other characters we used to debate about? I remember some of the characters in the TMNT videogames, especifically Aska who was popular with the fandom, but there were others like the mutant panda from TMNT II. Have there even been other game exclusive characters in other games?
Also some of the TMNT Adventures characters were debated right? I remember Ninjara being one of them.

I know that they can't use Usagi and kin, and going by that, any Indy comic character bar Flaming Carrot, but I doubt Flaming Carrot will do much. A lot of mirage characters, like Bloodsucker, are creator owned. The 2k3 games had a few exclusives like Slashurr and the Black Gators. The Pallidium characters are owned by Pallidium, or perhaps their designers. Maybe Usub isn't, as he was in Manhattan Missions. Dheeraj and the other DW characters might be Dreamwave's property, the Fleetway-only ones are all creator owned, Fred Wolf might own some of the more obscure OT characters, and then there's all the guys who never made it...

[sdp]

I doubt the IDW characters are owned by them. Usagi has never been a TMNT character, so I'm ok with that, hope that even without Laird they still let him use him. Which are the Fleetway characters? Archie? Are all Archie characters creator owned? There was indeed that Sonic Archie controversy? I'm not familiar with Pallidium. As far as I know Fred Wolf only owns the show and nothing else of the OT. In fact that's what caused some trouble back in the 90s between them and Mirage. Again I don't know about the game exclusive characters, not sure how the rights work on those.

[CyberCubed]

I actually wonder if all those one-shot Mad scientists from the OT are on that list. I mean Ciro Nieli would be scrolling down a list and saying, "Who the hell is Prof. Von Bolt? Or Lloyd Cycloyde? Or Prof. Sopho?"

:lol:

[John Pannozzi]

I know that they can't use Usagi and kin, and going by that, any Indy comic character bar Flaming Carrot, but I doubt Flaming Carrot will do much.
Do we have any proof Flaming Carrot will be in the show besides that one article from like a year ago?

A lot of mirage characters, like Bloodsucker, are creator owned.
Yeah, Rick Veitch owns his characters (though the Casey Jones story was done in collaboration with Kevin Eastman, so technically Viacom should co-own those characters, not that it matters since they're in legal limbo anyway). Also, Rick Arthur owns Lucindra and Malcolm and co., Don Simpson owns Teen Techno Turtle Trio Plus One and Alternative Turtles on the Moon, Fred Hembeck owns his back-up strip from the reprint of Mirage TMNT Vol. 1 #2, and most of the original Turtle Soups's participants (save Steve Bissette and Eric Talbot) own their stories from that book. The ownership of Dave Garcia and Mike Gaydos's stories for the later color Turtle Soup series is uncertain.


The 2k3 games had a few exclusives like Slashurr and the Black Gators.
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Viacom owns them now, seeing as how Mirage was pretty strict with work-for-hire contracts by then.



The Pallidium characters are owned by Pallidium, or perhaps their designers. Maybe Usub isn't, as he was in Manhattan Missions.
The Palladium stuff is a bit tricky. The earlier books had the text owned by Kevin Siembieda, but the illustrations owned by Eastman and Laird, which is probably why some characters were in Manhattan Missions. The later books have Siembieda own all the non-Mirage-derived elements and characters.

Dheeraj and the other DW characters might be Dreamwave's property,
I doubt that, especially since Dreamwave no longer exists, and as I said above, Mirage had gotten strict about work-for-hire contracts by the 2K3 era.

the Fleetway-only ones are all creator owned,

Really? How do you know this?


Fred Wolf might own some of the more obscure OT characters, and then there's all the guys who never made it...

Fred Wolf doesn't own any characters, they're all owned by Viacom (save for Usagi, who is naturally owned by Sakai).

And I assume by "all the guys who never made it...", you mean all the rejected toy and character designs? Yeah, I won't think too much about who owns them (I assume mostly the original designers/creators).

Also, Northshore Investments owned Tatsu, Keno, Prof. Jordan Perry and Chief Sterns.

I wonder if the Image TMNT Vol. 3 characters are on Nick's list, since Bobby Curnow said that they weren't on IDW's approved characters list, nor were Prof. Perry or Tatsu.

[Zulithe]

The list probably included action figures that were never in the show which also pumps the number up some. Also non-mutant and mutant/altered versions of characters after they transform.

[Tazi]

Ah, so no chance of seeing Tatsu again? :-?

[Coola Yagami]

The list probably included action figures that were never in the show which also pumps the number up some. Also non-mutant and mutant/altered versions of characters after they transform.

Pizza face for example. An action figure that was never on the show. And who says they have to use them all?

[CyberCubed]

Pizza face for example. An action figure that was never on the show. And who says they have to use them all?

They don't. But its interesting to see how many characters there are. Does the official list count one-shot obscure characters from the panels of Archie or one episodes of the original toon?

Does it include characters like Mr. Ogg? Toxeem?

[Darth Knuckles]

I remember some of the characters in the TMNT videogames, especifically Aska who was popular with the fandom, but there were others like the mutant panda from TMNT II. Have there even been other game exclusive characters in other games?

As for video game exclusive characters I can think of: TMNT (1989) - Mechaturtle (even though he looks almost exactly like Slash), TMNT II The Arcade Game - Tora and Shogun, TMNT: Turtles in Time - Boxing Robots (they're memorable, are they from anything else?), TMNT: Tournament Fighters (SNES) - Aska, & TMNT: Tournament Fighters (Genesis) - Sisyphus.

[CyberCubed]

I gather characters like Tatsu, Keno and even the Movie III characters like Walker, Princess Mitsu, and Whit can't be used is because of the likeness to the actors.

Meanwhile people in costumes like Rahzar and Tokka can be re-used because there's no human actors visible.

[miru]

Do we have any proof Flaming Carrot will be in the show besides that one article from like a year ago?


Yeah, Rick Veitch owns his characters (though the Casey Jones story was done in collaboration with Kevin Eastman, so technically Viacom should co-own those characters, not that it matters since they're in legal limbo anyway). Also, Rick Arthur owns Lucindra and Malcolm and co., Don Simpson owns Teen Techno Turtle Trio Plus One and Alternative Turtles on the Moon, Fred Hembeck owns his back-up strip from the reprint of Mirage TMNT Vol. 1 #2, and most of the original Turtle Soups's participants (save Steve Bissette and Eric Talbot) own their stories from that book. The ownership of Dave Garcia and Mike Gaydos's stories for the later color Turtle Soup series is uncertain.


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Viacom owns them now, seeing as how Mirage was pretty strict with work-for-hire contracts by then.

Okay.


The Palladium stuff is a bit tricky. The earlier books had the text owned by Kevin Siembieda, but the illustrations owned by Eastman and Laird, which is probably why some characters were in Manhattan Missions. The later books have Siembieda own all the non-Mirage-derived elements and characters.

Well, most of the ATB stuff was later reprinted with no turtles branding, so perhaps the ATB characters are property of Palladium themselves.

I doubt that, especially since Dreamwave no longer exists, and as I said above, Mirage had gotten strict about work-for-hire contracts by the 2K3 era.

Eh, they weren't that great anyway.

Really? How do you know this?

Because apparently all the Fleetway Sonic characters are also creator owned, as are most of the 2000 AD characters, so maybe it's the rule in Britain?


Fred Wolf doesn't own any characters, they're all owned by Viacom (save for Usagi, who is naturally owned by Sakai).

How do you know Fred Wolf owns nobody? Also, Sherlock Holmes is public domain, so anyone can use him.


And I assume by "all the guys who never made it...", you mean all the rejected toy and character designs? Yeah, I won't think too much about who owns them (I assume mostly the original designers/creators).

Exactly.

Also, Northshore Investments owned Tatsu, Keno, Prof. Jordan Perry and Chief Sterns.

I wonder if the Image TMNT Vol. 3 characters are on Nick's list, since Bobby Curnow said that they weren't on IDW's approved characters list, nor were Prof. Perry or Tatsu.

Does this apply to the Movie 3 Characters as well?

[CyberCubed]

Any character Fred Wolf owns (which is probably noone anyway), would likely be some minor character nobody cares about like Howie, generic mad scientist #138, or Babyface Cleaver.

All the most important Fred Wolf characters were mostly Mirage or Playmates characters anyway. I'm sure others like Tempestra and Lord Dregg are owned by Nick too in case they ever bring them back.

[pannoni1]

According to Turtlepedia, there are literally over 500 characters ever made in the franchise's history (681 when you include the "characters" page plus the red/black characters on the "list of TMNT characters" page, and in these days, anything found online is source-able for inclusion. This doesn't include many OT generic scientists such as Dr. Polydorious as CyberCubed mentioned. While lots of characters creates growth, returning many favorites helps preserve the legacy that we've endured in new takes.

BTW if you play the early NES videogames, you'll see the disclaimer that the trademark use was granted to Konami under a license from Mirage, so the Nick purchase eventually included all those video game characters. You'll also find on the closing credits of the OT and TNM that the characters were also licensed by Mirage/Surge, so it all fits the same umbrella. As far I can see with regards to the characters with the exception of Usagi (he was a crossover anyway to begin with) is that all previous characters are held by Nick. Its one of the benefits IMO to continuing the success in IDW and Nick, and hopefully Paramount will continue that trend.

[John Pannozzi]

Well, most of the ATB stuff was later reprinted with no turtles branding, so perhaps the ATB characters are property of Palladium themselves.


Indeed.


Because apparently all the Fleetway Sonic characters are also creator owned, as are most of the 2000 AD characters, so maybe it's the rule in Britain?

Where's the proof that the Fleetway Sonic characters are creator-owned?

Also, AFAIK, the only creator-owned 2000 AD characters are the one that the creators never signed away the rights to (much like most of Alan Moore's Marvel UK work, such as a his Doctor Who stories), so that was basically because of oversight.


How do you know Fred Wolf owns nobody? Also, Sherlock Holmes is public domain, so anyone can use him.
I have no reason to believe that Fred Wolf owns anything. Like cybercubed said, the only characters Fred Wolf might own would be incidental characters, since the major characters created for the show (Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady, the Neutrinos, and the April's News crew) were owned by Mirage. And Sherlock Holmes may be public domain, but the specific version of him shown in Turtles is not (much like Disney's versions of Peter Pan and Snow White and such aren't public domain).


Does this apply to the Movie 3 Characters as well?
No. Mirage owned all those characters.

[Xav]

I gather characters like Tatsu, Keno and even the Movie III characters like Walker, Princess Mitsu, and Whit can't be used is because of the likeness to the actors.Is that true though? Because apparently Tristan Jones wanted to bring Tatsu and Keno into the Mirage universe, and his Tatsu artwork looked just like the movie version. Plus the fact that Tatsu showed up in a couple video games.

[miru]

Is that true though? Because apparently Tristan Jones wanted to bring Tatsu and Keno into the Mirage universe, and his Tatsu artwork looked just like the movie version. Plus the fact that Tatsu showed up in a couple video games.

Oh yeah, and Mitsu had an action figure.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, for hundreds of characters, I'd say we have all the zillion-and-one action figures Playmates made for the 80's and 2000s, not all of which made it in the cartoons. Then we have several Mirage-exclusives like Savanti, Renet, Nobody, Shadow, Braunze, Radical, Cha Ocho, Choate, Fugitoid, etc, and characters from the 80's toon that seem to keep re-appearing like the Neutrinos and such. Then we have the new ones they're creating. Like it or not, characters like Snakeweed and Fishface are as much TMNT characters now as everyone else.

[CyberCubed]

Well, for hundreds of characters, I'd say we have all the zillion-and-one action figures Playmates made for the 80's and 2000s,

But most Playmates figures are Turtle variants. If you just look at the unique characters Playmates made...its really not that much.

[Coola Yagami]

Then I would say he was just exxagerating. I seriously doubt he had Dr. Sofo and Monroe Q. Flem in mind when he was saying her hundreds of tmnt characters at his disposal.

[CyberCubed]

Then I would say he was just exxagerating. I seriously doubt he had Dr. Sofo and Monroe Q. Flem in mind when he was saying her hundreds of tmnt characters at his disposal.

But it probably does include named characters. Like all those one-shot mutants from Archie.

I'm also certain characters like Tempestra and Lord Dregg are on that list. I don't think anyone would bring them back, but I'm sure they can if they wanted to.

[Jester]

You know who sorely needs a re-boot:




Barney Stockman.

[VaughnMichael]

You know who sorely needs a re-boot:




Barney Stockman.

I'd rather see Dr. Quease or Vam Mi.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if this includes conflicting characters:

April's Uncle Augie from 4kids, Aunt Agatha from OT, or her uncle from Scotland in Archie.

[Jester]

I wonder if this includes conflicting characters:

April's Uncle Augie from 4kids, Aunt Agatha from OT, or her uncle from Scotland in Archie.
Why conflicting? April has multiple aunts/uncles....throughout the multi-verse.

[CyberCubed]

Why conflicting? April has multiple aunts/uncles....throughout the multi-verse.

Because they're conflicting based on universe.

Just like Shredder's brother is Oroku Nagi in Mirage, but Kazuo Saki in the original toon...or no brother at all in the others.

[Jester]

It's not a conflict....it's a multi-verse. Different universes, different characters, different families. What's to say Saki can't have multiple siblings, anyway?

[CyberCubed]

It's not a conflict....it's a multi-verse. Different universes, different families. What's to say Saki can't have multiple siblings, anyway?

But what I'm asking is are all these characters on Nick's official list?

I'm wondering if all the really obscure characters are on there that nobody would know about.

[Jester]

But what I'm asking is are all these characters on Nick's official list?

I'm wondering if all the really obscure characters are on there that nobody would know about.
If the character exists, Viacom owns it...save maybe some characters like Bloodsucker who are locked in the Creator's Rights/Work For Hire quagmire....

[CyberCubed]

If the character exists, Viacom owns it...save maybe some characters like Bloodsucker who are locked in the Creator's Rights/Work For Hire quagmire....

I'd love to read the list just to see if people like Hokum Hare, Howie, The Phantom, and Barney Stockman are on it.

All those really obscure one-shot OT characters like Gadgetman and Hanz and Fritz.

[Jester]

I'd love to read the list just to see if people like Hokum Hare, Howie, The Phantom, and Barney Stockman are on it.

All those really obscure one-shot OT characters like Gadgetman and Hanz and Fritz.
I'm sure they are. They are characters in the TMNT universe....however minor.

[CyberCubed]

Characters who will hopefully never be revived, along with the awful Playmates/Archie characters nobody liked such as Monty Moose and Vid Vicious.

[Technogeek29]

You know who sorely needs a re-boot:




Barney Stockman.

Ah you ought've not bring that up around Baxter, it really "bugs" him.

[VaughnMichael]

Characters who will hopefully never be revived, along with the awful Playmates/Archie characters nobody liked such as Monty Moose and Vid Vicious.
Speak for yourself Cubed, I quite liked Vid Vicious.

[miru]

If the character exists, Viacom owns it...save maybe some characters like Bloodsucker who are locked in the Creator's Rights/Work For Hire quagmire....

Viacom could easily track them down and buy them.

[Powder]

If it was that easy, IDW would have reprinted The River.

[miru]

Does the list include the "buddy figures" from the playmates toys?

[sdp]

Speak for yourself Cubed, I quite liked Vid Vicious.

That's what I like about the internet, that you see that even characters who seem forgotten or no one liked, can be loved by someone. I'll quote Keith Justice "I'm all for people loving characters/shows I don't like."

[Shiro Kame]

I actually wonder if all those one-shot Mad scientists from the OT are on that list. I mean Ciro Nieli would be scrolling down a list and saying, "Who the hell is Prof. Von Bolt? Or Lloyd Cycloyde? Or Prof. Sopho?"

:lol:

I see what you mean. You'd have to see every episode of the classic TMNT series like I did to actually know them.

[miru]

I'm wondering if Nick and IDW characters are automatically added to the list, or only after they become important. I also wonder of characters from Las Tortugas Ninjas, the Supermutant OVA and manga, and other foreign productions are included? And is Oroku Saki separate from Shredder? Radically different interpretations of the same character?

[sdp]

I doubt it's updated every time a new character is created but I'm sure there's some time of archiving what's being created.

Anyway re-reading this thread got me thinking a few things. If Mirage owns Venus and they kept referring the Dragon Lord then it's likely Nick does own the characters and not Saban. Unless it's because they specifically designed Venus? Maybe that's the reason they can use Tokka/Rahzar and not the others? We did get confirmation tatsu couldn't be used right? The actors likeness doesn't matter since you just don't make him look like him too much at least. No one in the thread also answered about the Archie characters, how many are creator owned?

Also the "hundreds" of characters seems a bit of an overstatement, that would imply minimum 300 characters, including all one off characters that maybe appeared in an episode or only a few moments that still seems like too many, unless they're counting different continuities as different characters like "Tengu Shredder", Cyber Shredder, Shredder (Mirage), Shredder (OT), Shredder (2k3), Shredder (dream Shredder OT), Shredder (TNM). Only in that case would the list being "hundreds" make sense, didn't Disney also mentioned having "hundreds" of Star Wars characters? Only difference is that franchise has had tons of books/comics/games that introduce dozens of new characters making the quote seem more. I also think that the list is probably missing a bunch of characters they do own and just no one bothered to put them in sadly.

After watching the TMNT documentary didn't Fred Wolf mention that they could use some of their own characters for the show? But they wanted more and asked Mirage? As in that they owned some of the characters? Maybe they do own some of the Mad Scientists.

[Cryomancer]

I kind of imagine this would be a list of everything they have a specific trademark for, which is probably most things of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a list of every single playmates variant as a separate name though.

[Leofan26]

Any character Fred Wolf owns (which is probably noone anyway), would likely be some minor character nobody cares about like Howie, generic mad scientist #138, or Babyface Cleaver.

All the most important Fred Wolf characters were mostly Mirage or Playmates characters anyway. I'm sure others like Tempestra and Lord Dregg are owned by Nick too in case they ever bring them back.

Well than, I hope they re use the Lotus girl again from the ordinal series, I know Karai's supposed to be kind of her replacement but it'd be funny really. Imagine Leo crushing on two Samuri type girls :lol:

I really want them to use a few of the 2003 series characters :ohwell:

[Shark_Blade]

I thought Lotus Blossom is Karai, just renamed for whatever reason.

[Xav]

No Lotus Blossom came first.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

This is the thing that annoys me about TMNT the most. While I love the Nick Shows and IDW series dearly, the fact they dumped a whole new bunch of 'new' characters onto the board instead of doing thier research and repurposing what already existed just drives me up the wall! How many cat mutants do we need? Why Pigeon Pete instead of ace duck? why that D&D bird mutant or Koya when there are dozens of already existing bird mutants just waiting to be repurposed? Was 'Dogpound' really nescesscary when he just could have been Rhazar from day one?

Look, it doesn't bother me enough to make a big stink out of, but it just seems like they want to 'leave thier own creative mark' on TMNT by tacking newtralizer and Tiger claw onto the already huge character pile, instead of reusing Katmandu and ethier Mondo Gecko or Chameloen. :tsad:

[TigerClaw]

The show takes liberties on many of the characters, They aren't like how you remembered them, The show also lacked a female Mutant... Until they suddenly mutated Karai.

[CyberCubed]

This is the thing that annoys me about TMNT the most. While I love the Nick Shows and IDW series dearly, the fact they dumped a whole new bunch of 'new' characters onto the board instead of doing thier research and repurposing what already existed just drives me up the wall! How many cat mutants do we need? Why Pigeon Pete instead of ace duck? why that D&D bird mutant or Koya when there are dozens of already existing bird mutants just waiting to be repurposed? Was 'Dogpound' really nescesscary when he just could have been Rhazar from day one?

Look, it doesn't bother me enough to make a big stink out of, but it just seems like they want to 'leave thier own creative mark' on TMNT by tacking newtralizer and Tiger claw onto the already huge character pile, instead of reusing Katmandu and ethier Mondo Gecko or Chameloen. :tsad:

I'm just glad they turned Dogpound into Rahzar.

I also find it funny that Tiger Claw and Old Hob became major characters and they're both cat mutants...and both function in almost the same role in the newest series.

[miru]

This is the thing that annoys me about TMNT the most. While I love the Nick Shows and IDW series dearly, the fact they dumped a whole new bunch of 'new' characters onto the board instead of doing thier research and repurposing what already existed just drives me up the wall! How many cat mutants do we need? Why Pigeon Pete instead of ace duck? why that D&D bird mutant or Koya when there are dozens of already existing bird mutants just waiting to be repurposed? Was 'Dogpound' really nescesscary when he just could have been Rhazar from day one?

Look, it doesn't bother me enough to make a big stink out of, but it just seems like they want to 'leave thier own creative mark' on TMNT by tacking newtralizer and Tiger claw onto the already huge character pile, instead of reusing Katmandu and ethier Mondo Gecko or Chameloen. :tsad:

Sir Malachi was the first magic-using mutant ally character in TMNT history, Newtralizer is a ruthless bounty hunter as opposed to the carefree Mondo...

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Sir Malachi was the first magic-using mutant ally character in TMNT history, Newtralizer is a ruthless bounty hunter as opposed to the carefree Mondo...

So? King Leonheart could've substituted as the dnd' mutant (themed on being a medival king) instead of Sir. Malachi, and Chamoleon, with his shape shifting power, would've made a perfect bouty hunter with the ability of disguise.

[Cryomancer]

Isn't Newtralizer specifically something Ciro came up with as a kid that he made official because it is now within his job's power to do so?

Don't blame him, I imagine most people would do something similar in that situation.