Is the mutagen a bit too "magical" in this show?

[CyberCubed]

It seems like in this show the mutagen can do whatever the writers want it to based on the episode. No longer does it just turn the person into the last animal they were in contact with but it now:

- Mutates inorganic manner with flesh and blood (Cockroach terminator)

- Can give people the power to control Rats (Rat King)

- Can double mutate someone if they fall into it twice (Dogpound/Rahzar)

- Turns people into useless blobs for no reason (Mutagen Man)

- Some mutants don't have the ability to speak, yet others can speak naturally

- Can cause zits on mutant turtles


It seems like in every new episode the mutagen can just magically do whatever the writers want it to for the episode. Are there any "rules" to the Nick mutagen at all? It all seems rather random.

[Coola Yagami]

That's just it.. it's unstable and random.

For Timothy, we can say he didn't touch any animal or anything so it broke him down. Mikey used a failed attempt of retromutagen (which is super dumb, he could have accidentaly turned himself back into a normal turtle). Falco was doing all sorts of weird experiments and alterations to Mutagen.

No explanation for those squirrels, or why some can talk and others can't. Or why the wasp just turned giant sized.

[Shark_Blade]

"Unpredictable" is what I would call it.

[CyberCubed]

"Unpredictable" is what I would call it.

True, but there seems to be no "rules" for it at all. Literally anything can happen when you touch mutagen in this show.

At least in the original toon/4kids/Mirage it seemed to actually only change you based on what was established.

[Jester]

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.

[CyberCubed]

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.

At least they explained it in some episodes, like when it went all rainbow in one episode because it was unstable.

[Leo656]

A little consistency would be nice, but I don't think this show is really worried about that.

It sucks that it's function is basically "whatever the writers need it to do", and that it's so blatant, but eh, kids' show.

[Refractive Reflections]

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.
A little consistency would be nice, but I don't think this show is really worried about that.

It sucks that it's function is basically "whatever the writers need it to do", and that it's so blatant, but eh, kids' show.

Exactly, at least when the OT mutagen was unstable we knew some defect would occur ("Were-Rats of Channel 6") but for the most part we knew the mechanism of the mutagen (combining the forms of two previously touched entities.)

With the Nick Mutagen, its a crapshoot when it comes to the mutants intelligence, if they'll even have a form (Timothy/Mutagen Man), how exactly they interact with it (drink vs. touch it, Squirrelanoids vs. Dogpound and Fishface), how can it cause a "bad ass" looking mutation (Dogpound to Rahzar), whether it will be big or not (the "Parasitica" wasps).

It almost begs the question, if this mutagen is so unpredictable, why would Nick Shredder even bother in wanting it? He doesn't seem like the person who would be patient enough or willing to make many mistakes to have his "mutant army".

The Nick mutagen appears to be more of a writer's/creator's imagination "grab bag" as a device to insert whatever character design they want to, rather than following a stricter set of biological, chemical, or physical mechanisms that other TMNT universes have.

[Leo656]

I could see Shredder wanting the mutagen so he could try and find a way to stabilize it, but yeah, in its current form it kinda does seem like more trouble than it's worth. In trying to build a mutant army, he could theoretically end up with a whole lot of misfires and only a few viable ones.

[Jester]

There's more to the FW mutagen that "Caused whoever touched it to take on the form of what ever animal they have most recently been in contact with." Some made things bigger, like insects. Some completely merged animals, like the cows Mutagen Monster. The FW mutagen, as often as it was used, also had a variety of uses. Heck, the same formulation that made the Punk Frogs and Leatherhead also made a Fountain of Youth.

Ooze has always, aside from maybe Mirage (but there it was a one off thing), done what's plot convenient.

[Refractive Reflections]

There's more to the FW mutagen that "Caused whoever touched it to take on the form of what ever animal they have most recently been in contact with." Some made things bigger, like insects. Some completely merged animals, like the cows Mutagen Monster. The FW mutagen, as often as it was used, also had a variety of uses. Heck, the same formulation that made the Punk Frogs and Leatherhead also made a Fountain of Youth.

Ooze has always, aside from maybe Mirage (but there it was a one off thing), done what's plot convenient.

At least in those episodes OT Donatello or Krang was there to explain why things didn't work out in that episode, rather than leaving the viewer to grasp at straws in figuring out why things didn't lead up to the combined mutant form.

In Mutagen Monster, didn't Rocksteady and Bebop mess up the chemicals that were supposed to make mutagen?

In the Big Bug Blunder, Rocksteady and Bebop knocked in an additional chemical in the mutagen to cause the growth effect in the insects and arachnids.

In the Leatherhead episode, at least Donatello explained the diluted mutagen with the minerals caused a fountain of youth.

Maybe not as strict and of course subtly for plot convenience :P, but at least there was something "gone wrong" or an additional chemical that made these other outcomes more tolerable. In the OT, we didn't have to beat our heads in aggravation trying to decipher why the same untainted mutagen was so unpredictable and random as say the Nick mutagen.

[Jester]

There was a line back in season 1 that mentioned that the fact that it is of Dimension X origin makes it unstable...but I'll agree it's a rather large spectrum of instabilities.

[Refractive Reflections]

Is there really a "spectrum" Jester? :P That would be assuming the mutations would be classified within a finite range of possibilities, and we certainly didn't see it's full limitations yet. ;):lol: I think "numerous unknown variables" would be a better description :lol:, but that's me being a stickler for details sometimes. :D

[Jester]

Is there really a "spectrum" Jester? :P That would be assuming the mutations would be classified within a finite range of possibilities, and we certainly didn't see it's full limitations yet. ;):lol:
Touche...But it seems like all the mutations (save maybe Rat King, but that IS explained away) have 3 types: Combine elements (like The Turtles, Splinter, Dogpound, Fishface, Spider Bytes, Snake Weed, the Cockroach Terminator, Kirby), makes things larger (like the wasp, the Squirlanoids...and to a point Rahzar), and acts as an acid (Timothy...and again you could almost say Rahzar.)
It's not as broad as it's made to seem.

[Refractive Reflections]

Touche...But it seems like all the mutations (save maybe Rat King, but that IS explained away) have 3 types: Combine elements (like The Turtles, Splinter, Dogpound, Fishface, Spider Bytes, Snake Weed, the Cockroach Terminator, Kirby), makes things larger (like the wasp, the Squirlanoids...and to a point Rahzar), and acts as an acid (Timothy...and again you could almost say Rahzar.)
It's not as broad as it's made to seem.

Ah, I see you are very analytical about this. I got to give you a lot of respect on that. ;)
But if we were to truly get some form of a concrete understanding of how this Nick Mutagen worked, we could bring out the (I can't believe I'm bringing this up :lol:) scientific method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method), we would need to know the fixed variables of the mutation that would produce the same outcomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Confirmation) every time.

To explain how I'm viewing this is, for example, when you classified "make things larger": the wasp, the squirrelanoids, and maybe Rahzar.
All of their mutations weren't solely being bigger as a whole:

With the wasps they were big, but they had some mind-altering property in their stinger that regular wasps don't have.
With the squirrelanoids they were big, but their life cycle depended on asexual reproduction within a host's stomach for a stage before becoming the squirrelanoid.
With Rahzar he was big, but some how he became more visually threatening.

As for the acid properties, how exactly does that come into play? The "acid burning" is the behavior of the reaction, but their outcomes are too different.
Why is it that Dogpound/Rahzar was made to be a threatening "wolf", but yet Timothy was made into a blob?

So, at least in my own thinking :lol:, the number and types of variables in the environment were too ambiguous and numerous (for me at least) and probably fickle, which gave each of these mutants vast additional changes besides just getting larger or just having acid behaving reactive properties. As for the combine elements, if you notice, most of those mutations were around the beginning of the series but the principle or "laws" of the Nick mutagen became progressively looser. That's why, for me at least, I call the Nick mutagen a "grab bag" because the outcomes are never quite the same every time as the series goes on because they acquire more than just those 3 categories of mutations.

...Yeah, I know. I'm going down the long "rabbit hole" of detail and logic here. :lol: Far more detail I should... me and my details. :roll::lol:

[Jester]

Maybe that's it too....the age of the mutagen.
The Turtles and Splinter are the most stable because they were mutated 15 years prior and they have all kinda gone down hill since....

But again it's just a (very untested) theory.

[Refractive Reflections]

You're gonna hate me for this Jester. :D:lol:

I could also put Splinter/Hamato Yoshi within the acid category too since he screams in the premiere.

In addition, Snakeweed, Spiderbytez and the Cockroach terminator also become bigger than its larger species/element, and I could place them in the "makes things larger" category.

So... yeah... if I had to choose a theory it could be a progressively unstable mutagen, but it's a whisper away from falling flat though, as you similarly stated earlier. :ohwell:

[Jester]

Mutagenic MacGuffin....

[Ninja Tiptup]

Progressively unstable is a theory but Dogpound and Fishface came out more like Hamato Yoshi and there's the whole crap-shoot when it comes to intelligence thing and I'd be willing to say anyone of above average intellect loses their intelligence but that wasn't the case with Hamato Yoshi. The real test will be Baxter but I seriously doubt he's going to go mind-less when he becomes a fly man.

Mikey's puss pockets and Dr. Falco's experiments on himself and on the other professor along with the freezing mutagen were all due to manipulation of the mutagen but everything else has been caused by supposedly the same mutagen however unstable it may be.

A few more things that get my goat is traces of mutagen is usually enough to do something and yet some of that was found on the street by Donatello's tracking device with no consequence and I'm pretty sure when Donny picked up the broken mutagen container some of it was still in the box and probably touching something it could mutate.

The squirrel licked mutagen up but in almost every seen circumstance mutagen reaction is instant and doesn't take time to build up before happening and the only other case of delayed reaction was caused by manipulating the formula.

When the whole mutagen vat spilled knocking Xever and Bradford off the building why didn't it mutate anything but them? There was a ton of it down there. I am however almost willing to accept Dogpounds rock spikes because of concrete getting mixed in and we've seen inorganic matter can affect the outcome with this mutagen but given that the cardboard box situation still bothers the crap out of me.

Related to that there is clear signs that when the mutagen activates it uses up whatever mutagen is present and leaves no trace. So when Vic got oozed by a sizable amount of mutagen it all just vanished so I guess that's some explanation for where the rest of the mutagen ended up when Bradford and Xever got washed away by it.

And that double dunk for Bradford begs the question what happens if you leave organic matter inside the tank for an extended period of time? Additional mutations? Would they ever stop?

And don't even get me started on how it makes no sense that Timothy can consume mutagen now even if he is a blob. I suppose it can be argued that his unique form allows him to consume mutagen and use it to gain limbs and strength but why is that? I'm not willing to accept that under the rules that created most of these creatures "he didn't touch anything because of his suit" that's a cop-out if you ask me. I'm much more willing to believe the stuff is so unstable that even if he had touched something recently this could still have been the result. I'd have preferred they used the explanation of someone tampering with that batch of mutagen but oh well.

[Technogeek29]

I don't get this Mutagen formula. My bro cracked the joke and I qoute "So a science degree major loses almost all reasoning, but a couple of average joes and a slob retained theirs?" Seriously I roll my eyes at that one (mainly from laughing)

[Electric]

I think it can all be chalked up to it being unstable. Yeah it's convenient for the writers, but besides the dog pound to rahzar thing, it's all been explained. And even dog pound to Rahzar just took an aspect of his first mutation and amplified it. Rat king had messed with the mind control serum and the mutagen which allowed him to talk to the last thing he touched, acne was from mutagen that had been tampered with. And hey maybe the squirrel touched a kraang before mutating.

And why would shredder want it? Because the kraang are working on stabilizing it. They seem to have atleast once been able to just enlarge something, the wasp, without deformity, which shows it can be stabilized and not random.

[BubblyShell22]

And as for Timothy, he touched the mutagen before being mutated, so that's why he became a blob monster. I don't bother worry about what the mutagen does. I just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Metalwolf]

Quick theory (as I'll be off to work soon) but let me post here now a brief idea of what I'm thinking with this mutagen:

First mutation adds mass (or the ability to gain more mass quickly.)

Second mutation then strips fleshy mass until the enlarged creature is down to almost skeletal. (Rahzar and the Squirrelenoids)

Being that thin likely is a property of the mutagen, might be intended to give Earthen creatures some traits of Dimension X creatures. Any secondary mutation brings this out a lot stronger. Dimension X organisms might be almost skeletal.

The mutagen might contain the chemical 'building blocks of life' and genetic enzymes that 'cut and paste' any genetic structure it comes across. It might also 'copy' any additional genetic structure and bond them together when it starts reorganizes them back together. Since Timmy didn't have any outside genetic catalyst for it to work on with him, it simply turned him into a blob.

The 'proboscis' that Timmy now has along with the squirrels, is likely another trait of a Dimension X creature. It is possible the ooze has chemical genetic 'blueprints' that is there to give any mutated creature Dimension X creature 'traits.'

[Andrew NDB]

Not consistent at all. If it can make a Cockroach with a little camera taped onto it into a magical Robocop then there's very little reason it wouldn't make a naked man wearing nothing but a belt into some kind of weird hybrid Belt-Man.

[Jephael]

You know even I have to admit the mutagen on this show is a little too unpredictable for my tastes. Atleast in the Fred Wolf cartoon they were more consistent. It only did something odd like 1 out of 5 times, and as somebody pointed out it was because the formula was changed in some way.

[Overlordofnobodies]

I never think to much about it my self. Like some people said it no worst then the 80's cartoon. Winch had it do ever thing at some point. Hell I think it made killer fruit once. Plus it does not help that a few people get ooze only to turn back by the end.

I'm all so help with the "it's unstable because it come from another dimension with it own laws."As for the intelligence thing. Well so far only two people got less smart from it. Timmy(likely do to turning into a more blob mosnter. You all have to agree that he is one of a kind even in this show) and Kirby(who was all ready having a bit of a break down if you ask me.)

[Coola Yagami]

Quick theory (as I'll be off to work soon) but let me post here now a brief idea of what I'm thinking with this mutagen:

First mutation adds mass (or the ability to gain more mass quickly.)

Second mutation then strips fleshy mass until the enlarged creature is down to almost skeletal. (Rahzar and the Squirrelenoids)

Being that thin likely is a property of the mutagen, might be intended to give Earthen creatures some traits of Dimension X creatures. Any secondary mutation brings this out a lot stronger. Dimension X organisms might be almost skeletal.

The mutagen might contain the chemical 'building blocks of life' and genetic enzymes that 'cut and paste' any genetic structure it comes across. It might also 'copy' any additional genetic structure and bond them together when it starts reorganizes them back together. Since Timmy didn't have any outside genetic catalyst for it to work on with him, it simply turned him into a blob.

The 'proboscis' that Timmy now has along with the squirrels, is likely another trait of a Dimension X creature. It is possible the ooze has chemical genetic 'blueprints' that is there to give any mutated creature Dimension X creature 'traits.'

The only problem with that is watch Fishface turn into a huge muscular hammerhead shark or something. It has no laws.

[Casey]

Quick theory (as I'll be off to work soon) but let me post here now a brief idea of what I'm thinking with this mutagen:

First mutation adds mass (or the ability to gain more mass quickly.)

Second mutation then strips fleshy mass until the enlarged creature is down to almost skeletal. (Rahzar and the Squirrelenoids)

Being that thin likely is a property of the mutagen, might be intended to give Earthen creatures some traits of Dimension X creatures. Any secondary mutation brings this out a lot stronger. Dimension X organisms might be almost skeletal.

The mutagen might contain the chemical 'building blocks of life' and genetic enzymes that 'cut and paste' any genetic structure it comes across. It might also 'copy' any additional genetic structure and bond them together when it starts reorganizes them back together. Since Timmy didn't have any outside genetic catalyst for it to work on with him, it simply turned him into a blob.

The 'proboscis' that Timmy now has along with the squirrels, is likely another trait of a Dimension X creature. It is possible the ooze has chemical genetic 'blueprints' that is there to give any mutated creature Dimension X creature 'traits.'

I commend you for putting this much thought into it, but I highly doubt the writers have any of this in mind and it will never be explained that in depth in the plot of the show. I do however think they will eventually go into "The Secret of the Ooze" and tell us a little more about it's mysteries. Your theory is a lot of fun though and I feel like that it is a mark of good fiction - when you can theorize about things endlessly.

[Krutch]

It's basically what Kryptonite was in Smallville: a flexible plot device to be used for anything the writer wants or needs to tell a story.

[snake]

It's unstable and dangerous, no garentees into what you turn into.

[Donatello19]

- Can give people the power to control Rats (Rat King)

- Can cause zits on mutant turtles


-Falco was making his own version of the mutagen that he modified, therefore giving him that ability (he was trying to get mind control, and he was experimenting with rats)

-That was a failed retro mutagen experiment that Donnie made.

Besides, the whole thing about this mutagen is that it's unstable.

[saber16]

The mutagen is random, for sure, but that's not to say it doesn't follow any set rules. While some mutations have lead to multiple theories rather than a solid one, the theories are still easy enough to follow.
From what I can tell, mutagen either combines dna or enhance it.

The fact they explain in the show the stuff is highly unstable at least explains why a lot of the mutations are radically different than others.

It's unclear, sure. But honestly, I think it makes it that much more fun. It's just a lot of fun seeing all this debating and all these ideas as to "Why this happened," or "I think they mutated into that because," and so on.

[Andrew NDB]

While some mutations have lead to multiple theories rather than a solid one, the theories are still easy enough to follow.
From what I can tell, mutagen either combines dna or enhance it.

Nope, mechanical cameras and such contain no DNA... so your theory goes *poof*, right out the window.

[saber16]

Nope, mechanical cameras and such contain no DNA... so your theory goes *poof*, right out the window.

With all the crazy stuff we've seen technology do in this show, I don't know...

[Ninja Tiptup]

Okay now in the Slash episode we have a few close calls with mutagen exposure including the little girl pouring it into a plastic tea cup which she holds up to her face but manages not to get exposed and then Leo knocks it out of her hands where it smashes onto a door leaving only a little residue.

Mutagen has been shown to affect non-organic matter, albeit when its touching organic matter, but it basically evaporated on the door. We've seen that getting touched with just a little mutagen can do something but between that instance and the traces of mutagen Don tracks not doing anything you have to wonder how much is required to get any kind of reaction?

There's microbes in the air all around us and there was most assuredly some kind of DNA on that door but apparently not enough to do anything. I would rather have seen the remains of the tea cup mutagen end up on a bug and make a creature for Leo to fight than for nothing to happen and leave the question of what can that residue left on the door and in the broken cup do?

[CyberCubed]

Basically there is no logic to mutagen in this cartoon

[BabyTurtles]

Basically there is no logic to mutagen in this cartoon

I guess you can say that

...the mutagen is dangerously unstable because the Kraang are constantly changing it.

that's why mutants like the turtles and Splinter look more humanoid than say....Bradford, Fishface, even Pigeon Pete. cause the Kraang have been changing up the formula. (15 years of messing with it)

I think it's getting even more dangerous and unstable as they try to get the mutagen the way they want it.

[Ninja Tiptup]

If changing the formula was the cause then there would still be a progression of some kind but Spider Bytz and Snake Weed were way more messed up than Bradford and Xever despite getting mutated earlier.

Slash turned out a lot like Bradford, increased sized and added spikes but he was only around mutant turtles and a mutant rat shortly before mutation and by some people's theories coming in contact with only a mutant either doesn't affect what happens or causes a Timothy situation. That reaction to mutagen made him humanoid and greatly increased his intelligence to the point that he could already speak and fight.

This isn't the first time a mutant has been shown capable of fighting in its new body immediately after transformation. Spider Bytz and Snake Weed come to mind though he at least had to try a few things before I knew what he was doing.

All you can really say at this point is it's always been unpredictable but IMO that's always going to feel like a cop-out and with as clever as these writers can be, I think it's a pity they decided to make mutagen a catch-all instead of coming up with more ways that could create these phenomenons but that's a nit-pick I suppose.

[CyberCubed]

When the mutagen was splashed on the door I'm surprised we didn't get a walking door mutant.

[Ninja Tiptup]

The door coming to life and Leo having to fight it would have been hilarious.

[BabyTurtles]

If changing the formula was the cause then there would still be a progression of some kind but Spider Bytz and Snake Weed were way more messed up than Bradford and Xever despite getting mutated earlier.

well it depends on what kinda progression they want....

who says humanoid mutants are the right direction for the kraang.....

maybe the messed up way the mutants are now is closer to what the kraang are going for.

[Jester]

Silly question: am I just misremembering or has the ooze become more green in recent episodes?

[Ninja Tiptup]

well it depends on what kinda progression they want....

who says humanoid mutants are the right direction for the kraang.....

maybe the messed up way the mutants are now is closer to what the kraang are going for.

I'm not saying that the Kraang want results more like the turtles and Yoshi than like Timothy and Kirby.

What I'm saying there's a lack of consistency because some mutants end up more like the turtles and Yoshi while others turn out more horrific or brainless and if their goal was to get to the brainless mutants then their newest batch wouldn't make Spike intelligent enough to speak and fight immediately after mutation, much less be able to imitate Leo's voice.

We have the one explanation that the mutagen reacts differently in dimension X but we don't know exactly what that means. So I accept that it's unstable and doesn't react the way it was "supposed to" because of a different environment. Beyond that we can only guess that they're changing it or it's changing by itself. All of that I accept as the method in which they explain that mutagen is unpredictable but regardless of what has happened to the mutagen it seems equally likely any creature coming in contact with it could gain intelligence or lose it, gain bulk or lose it, develop unique powers or simply become more humanoid among other potential outcomes. It just does whatever the writers want it to and lacks even the shred of consistency the Fred Wolf cartoon's mutagen had.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Silly question: am I just misremembering or has the ooze become more green in recent episodes?

In the first season it looked closer to blue than green IMO but in this episode in particular it looked very green when the girl was pouring it. I think it looked about as green in Pulverizer Returns but I'd rather not double-check because that scene was disturbing. It also looked pretty green when Bradford double-dunked. On the other hand I think it looked pretty green when the Cockroch fell in so maybe it was just the very early first season episodes that it looked bluer than green.

I think the animators realized it wasn't quite green enough and have adjusted the color a bit. You might be able to use that as a visual cue that the stuff is changing. I think someone had a theory that there would be different kinds of mutagen in various colors at some point. Though a lack of color consistency with mutagen is nothing new, the Japanese animators made it glowing purple/pink in the Fred Wolf toon before it more commonly was shown as green.

[BabyTurtles]

I'm not saying that the Kraang want results more like the turtles and Yoshi than like Timothy and Kirby.

What I'm saying there's a lack of consistency because some mutants end up more like the turtles and Yoshi while others turn out more horrific or brainless and if their goal was to get to the brainless mutants then their newest batch wouldn't make Spike intelligent enough to speak and fight immediately after mutation, much less be able to imitate Leo's voice.

We have the one explanation that the mutagen reacts differently in dimension X but we don't know exactly what that means. So I accept that it's unstable and doesn't react the way it was "supposed to" because of a different environment. Beyond that we can only guess that they're changing it or it's changing by itself. All of that I accept as the method in which they explain that mutagen is unpredictable but regardless of what has happened to the mutagen it seems equally likely any creature coming in contact with it could gain intelligence or lose it, gain bulk or lose it, develop unique powers or simply become more humanoid among other potential outcomes. It just does whatever the writers want it to and lacks even the shred of consistency the Fred Wolf cartoon's mutagen had.

not trying to say everything Nick's version does is better (cause there are some things I don't like....coughaprilcough)

but I kinda like how the mutagen is unpredictable XD every time someone gets slashed with mutagen you don't know whats gonna happen!! You don't know whether they are gonna be able to still think normally or become a crazy monster

it's a surprise each time! I personally like that :D

[bridgegrn]

I thought they explained it simply in season 1= The mutagen isn't doing what the Kraang want it to do because it's unstable in our dimension. It was even implied that the formula is constantly changing because they are trying to get it to do what they want it to do. The turtles and Splinter are just lucky because obviously the batch that mutated them was different enough not to warp their minds or severely deform them (though personally I like to think that their eyes shifting to white is an after effect of the mutation.) Actually, if it werent for the turtle's sanity and training the newer mutants would probably be considered superior because of all the physical advantages their mutations gave them.

[bwrosas]

iejGitroD5E

After Reading the review for Slash and Destory, they asked a question on what's up with the Mutagen in this series.

So I try to answer that question

Comments are Welcomed

[Jester]

I guess I asked for that...

[raph27]

Comments are Welcomed
How bout get the f**k outta here. Reported.

[Shark_Blade]

Yes it is indeed blue-ish in the beginning. The earlier liquid mutagen toy (that comes with a mini turtle) was also blue.In the first season it looked closer to blue than green IMO but in this episode in particular it looked very green when the girl was pouring it. I think it looked about as green in Pulverizer Returns but I'd rather not double-check because that scene was disturbing.It's not that disturbing, but it's a befitting end to Timothy's foolishness nonetheless.

I guess I asked for that...
:lol:

[pannoni1]

This mutagen comes from another Dimension, meaning that its powers are not even close to being fully discovered. As long as that's true, I can expect anything to happen with such mutagen, whether its an animal mutation, a plant, or a human. Its unknown how big, small, fast, or slow that the genomes will act, and is part of the lure that makes me enjoy this season. Its clearly the universe that utilizes mutagen the most in the most random methods, but it just creates fiction which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[bridgegrn]

True, it's unpredictability just adds another layer of drama and surprises to the show. Anything can happen, which puts the turtles at a severe disadvantage.

[drgon78]

I would like to see April come into contact with mutagen and not be affected at all. Maybe April would be the key to anti-mutagen.

[Shiro Kame]

True, but there seems to be no "rules" for it at all. Literally anything can happen when you touch mutagen in this show.

At least in the original toon/4kids/Mirage it seemed to actually only change you based on what was established.

Yeah, also, the Kraang and scientists kept modifying the mutagen since its function is different in our universe due to the laws of physics being different, therefore it would make sense that the mutagen would combine and change things depeneding on the use and how much it was modified.

Also, some water polluted with mutagen fell on April and didn't affect her. The reason why will probably be explained in the episode that Kurtzen, a journalist investing Kraang, appears in.

[Lethal Lullaby]

Anyone wonder if mutagen affects the dead? ... Probably not, but still I kinda wonder. :toops:

[Leo656]

I just think it's a little annoying and encourages the writers to be lazy. Whatever they need done, whenever they need to write themselves out of a corner, "The Mutagen Can Do It!" Because the mutagen can do literally anything. Because it's all made up as they go along.

I don't know... when I was taking writing classes back in school, I was taught that if/when you have some kind of deus ex machina that can do whatever the plot demands, you're not supposed to be so damned blatant and transparent about it. Especially if it's a storyline like a TV show where it's used on a constant, repeating basis, further exposing just how contrived a device it is.

People can say "The ooze in unstable!" all they want. That's the in-universe explanation, and that's whatever. The real and only explanation is, "It's a kids' show and we don't give a f*ck!" And that kind of gets on my nerves, a little, just because it kind of goes against one of the basic rules of any sort of creative writing. If they weren't so bad about it, it may not be as grating. Glad to see I'm not the only one who's a little annoyed about it.

[bridgegrn]

The mutagen has literally only been used to mutate though. It's only unpredictable trait is how the person /animal who is mutated comes out.

[Technodrone]

How bout get the f**k outta here. Reported.

Reported what? This is what I hate about online forums. He posted a link to a YouTube video with his opinion. What wrong with that? You can easily ignore the link and keep scrolling. It's not like he's making money off of people seeing his opinion. I swear, between moderators freaking out because topics have been repeated or a question has been answered and people freaking about non-profit solicitation or people posting twice in a row, message boards are becoming increasingly more annoying places to gather information and opinions. Cry me a river.

[Luckyday]

If you tried to explain something to much, you're going to end up with midichlorians.:roll:

[raph27]

Reported what? This is what I hate about online forums. He posted a link to a YouTube video with his opinion. What wrong with that? You can easily ignore the link and keep scrolling. It's not like he's making money off of people seeing his opinion. I swear, between moderators freaking out because topics have been repeated or a question has been answered and people freaking about non-profit solicitation or people posting twice in a row, message boards are becoming increasingly more annoying places to gather information and opinions. Cry me a river.
He has been shamelessly spamming his videos all over the forum without typing ANYTHING. had he also typed at least a paragraph about it I would accept it, but putting this video with the words 'watch my video' only and posting it AGAIN this time in its own topic is highly annoying.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Anyone wonder if mutagen affects the dead? ... Probably not, but still I kinda wonder. :toops:

Zombies :tlol:

[Luckyday]

I would like to see April come into contact with mutagen and not be affected at all. Maybe April would be the key to anti-mutagen.

.....Dude. :teek:

[ssjup81]

.....Dude. :teek:Seems that post was from December 2013. Maybe that person hadn't seen those eps yet or had they already aired yet?

That aside, I don't think mutagen in this show is "magical" or anything. The writers actually set it up nicely with the explanation of how unpredictable the mutagen is in earth's dimension, which leaves them open to be creative with the effects of it. Oh and for plot conveniences as well... lol

[Luckyday]

Seems that post was from December 2013. Maybe that person hadn't seen those eps yet or had they already aired yet?

That aside, I don't think mutagen in this show is "magical" or anything. The writers actually set it up nicely with the explanation of how unpredictable the mutagen is in earth's dimension, which leaves them open to be creative with the effects of it. Oh and for plot conveniences as well... lol

Then he's a prophet then cause everything he said had came true. That post was from 2013 but The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman episode was....2014.

[neatoman]

The mutagen is (ugh) a far too convenient plot device. It can do anything because it's easy to say something like "it's unstable" or "there exist countless variants", an unpredictable well is paradoxically a reliable well.

Granted, it would be nice if orgins NOT related to the mutagen were more common (Speed Demon and the Rat King are examples that would work better if they had nothing to do with the mutagen).

[The Big Bad]

an unpredictable well is paradoxically a reliable well.

I like this phrase. Adding yet more paradoxes, the mutagen as written suffers from being both far too unpredictable and not unpredictable enough. A truly random mutagen wouldn't have mutated the turtles or the punk frogs as uniformly as it did. Heck, it'd be essentially useless, since it would be inherently untestable; even if you got it to do whatever it is you wanted, there wouldn't be any guarantee that you could make it do that thing again. And yet, we've seen it behave in predictable, consistent ways whenever the writers want it to, because if it were truly random, it would also be useless as a storytelling device.


Also, it's damn convenient (read: contrived) that any time the turtles get affected by mutagen, it's effects turn out to be easily reversible.

[newhire13]

I think they told us all we really need to know- that the mutagen is unstable. I don't need to know the science of it, they established the rules: you get hit with mutagen you become a mutant, but its so unstable unless you figure out how to manipulate it anything can happen. The unpredictability adds to the danger .

[Leofan26]

I'd say more so in season three than the others and it's getting tirsome and repeative to watch.

[lindz247]

I really think it didn't make any sense at all how the car was a mutant in the last show. So now nonliving things can be mutated too? :-?

[evan2000]

I really think it didn't make any sense at all how the car was a mutant in the last show. So now nonliving things can be mutated too? :-?

Yup. Ice cream and pizza are non-living things too and we have an ice cream mutant and a pizza mutant.

Alright alright... the cat and the pizza chef (Antonio) were living things. How about vomit and soil? Apparently when mixed with mutagen it becomes the Creep. Go figure :trolleye:

[Jephael]

Hey it even happened on the original cartoon. Somehow Bebop and Rocksteady once created a 50 foot tall ice monster by dumping mutagen into a snow bank.

[Ashwolf]

Yup. Ice cream and pizza are non-living things too and we have an ice cream mutant and a pizza mutant.

Alright alright... the cat and the pizza chef (Antonio) were living things. How about vomit and soil? Apparently when mixed with mutagen it becomes the Creep. Go figure :trolleye:

I think saying that its "magical" is taking it a bit far, I mean, seriously.....

the spy roaches body only fused w/ the camera gear and whatever else that don had on its at the time it mutated - direct contact of metal w/ dna

ick was licking the mutagen tainted ice cream - direct contact of food w/ dna

pizzaface was a chef that had pizza on his fingers or in his mouth - direct contact of food w/ dna

creep only came around cause of leos vomit - mutagen traces in the vomit mixed w/ leos dna that came in direct contact of the soil

as far as speed demon goes, best I can figure is that it was affected by the mutagen only cause of whatever mechanics dna that was on the engine/tire of the car - direct contact of the remnant dna on the car mixed w/ the mutagen splattered on the tire/other parts of the car affected it in the way it did, heck roadkill dna might've also been a factor.....


but no, going from that trend alone, NOT magical

[Luckyday]

creep only came around cause of leos vomit - mutagen traces in the vomit mixed w/ leos dna that came in direct contact of the soil



but no, going from that trend alone, NOT magical

Should we really consider Creep to be a mutant of the soil variety? His powers were plant base then of mud and dirt. If it were really so then wouldn't he be more like Clay face and not a steroid version of Poison Ivy?

[evan2000]

Should we really consider Creep to be a mutant of the soil variety? His powers were plant base then of mud and dirt. If it were really so then wouldn't he be more like Clay face and not a steroid version of Poison Ivy?

Well, does this look more like a plant, soil, or vomit?

http://i.imgur.com/tnnAd1c.jpg

[Luckyday]

Well, does this look more like a plant, soil, or vomit?

http://i.imgur.com/tnnAd1c.jpg

Why can it be all of the above?

The second mutant so far to belong to the chimera homunculus class.

[The Big Bad]

as far as speed demon goes, best I can figure is that it was affected by the mutagen only cause of whatever mechanics dna that was on the engine/tire of the car - direct contact of the remnant dna on the car mixed w/ the mutagen splattered on the tire/other parts of the car affected it in the way it did, heck roadkill dna might've also been a factor.....

but no, going from that trend alone, NOT magical

Except that if we're going to say that mutagen affects touch DNA, everything that's ever touched by a living thing ever would be affected. Why is the car affected but not the street? Why aren't the germs in people's bodies getting mutated as well? Why aren't the mutagen spills from the car--which are definitively mutagenic--affecting other cars as well? Why is there no mutant equivalent of the zombie apocalypse, if creating mutants is that easy?

Another reason why the mutagen is magical: somehow, despite being oh so " "unpredictable" , it can be used to create medicine which somehow lacks mutagenic properties until it's vomited. Why? because the plot requires it to mutate people other than Leonardo--in other words, magic.

[miru]

Yes, I found a lot of the mutants in this show downright bizarre and even stupid in their creation processes.

[Metalwolf]

Yes, I found a lot of the mutants in this show downright bizarre and even stupid in their creation processes.Me too. I like ICK, but I wish she had stayed a regular kitty, or at least had been made a mutant via anything other then icecream. Living 'food' gives me the willies.

[Shiro Kame]

I thought at first it was fine, as there were logical explanations to why it may do different things...but a mutant car...? REALLY...? They couldn't come up with another good excuse to do a Christian-inspired horror episode?

[Luckyday]

Have you guys notice that in some situations that people or animals are mutated with a mutagen that contained dna samples like in Vengeances is Mine or with many of the other situations? I mean how else would the punk frogs end being humanoid looking frogs that has the capabilities of speaking perfect english and wearing clothes, which I guess means that they're warm blooded.

[lindz247]

Yea to me that makes no sense! I thought mutagen was UNPREDICTABLE!!! And where'd the clothes come from seriously, and who taught them english??

[Metalwolf]

Yea to me that makes no sense! I thought mutagen was UNPREDICTABLE!!! And where'd the clothes come from seriously, and who taught them english??The clothes could be stolen from campers and the English could be learned just by being around the campers.

[Shark_Blade]

But the time period was pretty short...the turtles were staying at April's house for like only 3 months so far, judging from Leo's recovery period? But even then, they weren't mutated yet.

I guess we should just ignore that since Spike could talk the moment he mutated into Slash.

[Luckyday]

Except that if we're going to say that mutagen affects touch DNA, everything that's ever touched by a living thing ever would be affected. Why is the car affected but not the street? Why aren't the germs in people's bodies getting mutated as well? Why aren't the mutagen spills from the car--which are definitively mutagenic--affecting other cars as well? Why is there no mutant equivalent of the zombie apocalypse, if creating mutants is that easy?

Another reason why the mutagen is magical: somehow, despite being oh so " "unpredictable" , it can be used to create medicine which somehow lacks mutagenic properties until it's vomited. Why? because the plot requires it to mutate people other than Leonardo--in other words, magic.

I have a theory that may sound far fetch but...I don't think what creates a mutant is not so much on last physical contact of dna, because if it did then there would be more mutants looking like a hodgepodge like Justin and the mutations themselves are never in a sterile clean environment. I think it's base on the physical contact of two electric fields of the two things interacting with each other.

I know this sounds like one of many crack theories but I'm going to do a little more research and see if it's possible.

[Metalwolf]

I think it's whatever the mutagen comes in contact with on the subject's body, and it's there in large quantities. Otherwise people would have almost always mutated into some giant dust mite or any human parasite, and we've yet to see one of those.

[Luckyday]

I think it's whatever the mutagen comes in contact with on the subject's body, and it's there in large quantities. Otherwise people would have almost always mutated into some giant dust mite or any human parasite, and we've yet to see one of those.

If that were the case then why did Splinter turn into a giant rat when the subject simply walk over his closed foot? In the show where even every day objects can come alive and some even become absorb into the body, how come his shirt and jeans didn't get absorb and remain unchanged other then being rip away like the incredible hulk?

this link to show how much dna can be left through contact and sometimes touching something won't always be enough. (http://www.ryanforensicdna.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Touch_DNA_article.59101908.pdf)

Is DNA always left on an object via touch?

It is important to note that not every contact leaves enough DNA behind to yield a DNA profile. Often
I am asked, “If a person touched this [insert object], would they necessarily have left DNA behind?” The
short answer is no, not always. Journal articles regarding the transfer of DNA have shown that DNA is
not always transferred through contact alone. Lowe, et al (1999) found that 12 of 30 subjects transferred
little to no DNA to a sterile tube after handling for 10 seconds. Djuric, et al (2007) discovered that one
female test subject transferred a DNA profile that was not her own to a sterile tube. A research article
by Rutty (2001) showed that of 29 simulated strangulation samples, only 19 yielded DNA results. Of
these, only 7 showed signs of both the “victim’s” and the “suspect’s” DNA. Phipps and Petricevic (2006)
discovered that 51%-70% of individuals (depending on which hand was tested) failed to leave behind their
DNA on a sterile tube that was held for 10 seconds. In addition, a study by Raymond, et al (2009) on
trace DNA success rates noted that of 252 trace casework samples (all from surfaces touched by
hands), 111 (44%) did not produce a profile. A study by Castella and Mangin (2008 ) analyzing the results
from 1739 contact traces from real casework showed that just 26% of the contact traces had a DNA
profile suitable for entry into the Swiss DNA database.

I think rather then inserting dna because dna received from touching is small in comparison to using a complete blood sample, it would use it as a reference instead of pulling out shared dna or inserting dna from contact, it would try to make the chemical composition of the host mutant to resemble the one it touches but it would chooses the one that it's closer to it in composition so that could be the reason why Splinter became a rat even though there was more surface area of the shirt and pants and what ever substance that he had on him self at the time because the rat's chemical composition is closer to a human and would rather less work then it would have been then trying to turn a human into a mutant polo shirt and jeans.

Also the how much the mutant resemble it depends how much energy resides in a small tube of mutagen. I have a theory that size and likeness depends on how old the mutagen . Although I can explain that another time. I'm am tired.>_>

I realize that there a plot hole in regarding to picking the one that most resemble the host or person/creature being mutanted at the time because when I think back how ICK was mutated, I remember how Mikey was holding her and Karai touch something before being drop into a tub of snake dna mutagen. So maybe Metalwolf's theory is more likely.