Classic Ep talk: A Thing About Rats

[Nturtle]

I thought I would make the new topic this week...

I really liked this Episode!! it wasn't as good as the previosu two, esspecially in terms of action. but it was very very funny!!! Namely parts like Baxter not being able to sell his mousers, Shredder's line about his operationbeing enormus and then Bebop and Rocksteady coming in. Imagine what Baxter must have been thinking :lol: The Turtles stealing baxter's van and Mikey talking to Krang :lol: :lol:

[Taloniss]

Loved this one too! The humour was more abundant than the first two episodes, and there was still a decent amount of action.

[Jephael]

Oh man, I loved this episode! The best part had to be when Baxter was about to be killed by the Foot and the turtles rescue him.

"You're no match for Michaelangelo, master of the manrique guisari! HA HA HA!"
"And you're no match for Raphael, master of the manhole cover! Heh, what a sucker!"

[Taloniss]

"And you're no match for Raphael, master of the manhole cover! Heh, what a sucker!"

Oh man, that line had my sides splitting!

[Ninja Tiptup]

Oh this one has some great lines!

"They don't pay me enough to take this kind of abuse"

"I'll never talk"
"You'd better or I'll have to get... sarcastic"

"Michaelangelo... Michaelangelo... if anything happened to that little twirp I'll..."
"I just love hide an seek don't you?"

And the whole seen in April's apartment is hillarious!

[Jephael]

Speaking of April, I thought it was kinda funny how they had her in that bath robe, indicating she'd been taking a shower before the TMNT came to visit her. The censors may've also had issues about that back then cause in any episode after 1989, she was always in her regular yellow jumpsuit.

[Trunks]

I really liked that episode to but the first two where beter.

[Reznorite420]

Sound clip time...

The last lines of the ep (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/sounds/mp_brain.wav) :D

[Nturtle]

:lol: You know, they were so suggesting Mikey was on drugs with that giant brain stuff, heh.

[Mouse]

this episode is strangely placed as the second movie on the FHE home video "Hot Rodding Teenagers".

it is also a great example of how more expressive the animation was towards the beginning. i feel sorry for poor baxter though...he goes through hell in the beginning of the episode and then becomes Shredder's lackey thereafter. i mean, he gets foot sent after him and then the turtles give him hell...and for goodness sake's he later becomes a fly...the guy needs some therapy and a decent shot at winning or something, he did manage to turn all the people at the Channel six building into bug in one episode though. so don't quote me on baxter then....though...shredder did manage to show that he has strange ways of finding new technology^_^

so ends my rant

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Speaking of April, I thought it was kinda funny how they had her in that bath robe, indicating she'd been taking a shower before the TMNT came to visit her. The censors may've also had issues about that back then cause in any episode after 1989, she was always in her regular yellow jumpsuit.

Actually, there is one instance where April is not in her jumpsuit after 1989. In the episode "Four Turtles and a Baby" from 1990, April was in a robe of some sort. There was even a little leg action, if I remember correctly. And in "Shredder's Mom", also from 1990, she's wearing little clothing during one of her broadcasts.

I'll bet the parents had a field day with all that. :roll:

I also remember an episode from 1989, "Leatherhead: Terror of the Swamp." April was decked out in a yellow, two-piece bikini. It was the only time they ever illustrated her like that, if I remember correctly.

"Vicious? Shredder's the one who turned you into a rat! Shredder's the one who tries to take over the world every week! Shredder's responsible for everything evil that ever happens! He's out there somewhere, and I'm going to get him!" - Donatello, from "Night of the Dark Turtle"

[Jephael]

Right, but like I said, they were all done before the change to CBS.

[sdp]

This is another solid episode, I liked it more than the last one too. The humor here is more interesting and the mousers made more of a threat than Rocksteady and Beebop last time. Its funny how the mousers are only ever featured in this episode however the mousers got a ton of spotlight whether it was videogames/stickers/artwork etc.


A few things bother me though. Aprils whole apartment building is brought down by the mousers. Are we to believe they were the only ones inside at the time even though it was already late night? Obviously a lot of people would have died Also there goes Aprils home and all her belongings...

Baxter Stockman wasn't really a bad guy, he was just hired by the shredder. Its odd he isn't surprised to see giant turtles that talk and if he was a good guy why wouldn't he tell the turtles who he built the mousers for at first? I guess confidentiality. And did Shredder pay him? Too many questions. Anyways its unfair he is sent to jail.

[oldmanwinters]

A few things bother me though. April's whole apartment building is brought down by the mousers. Are we to believe they were the only ones inside at the time even though it was already late night? Obviously a lot of people would have died Also there goes April's home and all her belongings...

Heh, check out my abridged parody video on that part of the episode!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9t99o_tmnt-gone-wrong-episode-2_shortfilms


Baxter Stockman wasn't really a bad guy, he was just hired by the shredder. . . if he was a good guy why wouldn't he tell the turtles who he built the mousers for at first? . . . Anyways its unfair he is sent to jail.

Stockman's mistake was that he was willing to work for Shredder knowing full well that his inventions were being used for evil means. That makes him a greedy lackey and he deserved the full penalty of the law.

[XERO]

Funny part that made me chuckle:

(Raphael is messing around with one of April's paintings at her apartment.)

April: "Put that back, Raphael!"
Raph: "Where do ya plug this thing in?"

:P

[Coola Yagami]

Naw, Baxter was so naive. Even after seeing Shredder's quarters, the henchmutants and demands for a master control device to control zillions of Mousers.... Baxter thought to himself 'Gee, this guy must really have a thing about rats....'

[themaxonline]

I really liked this episode because of how dark it was and it wasn't as active as the first two (or the last two) but it was almost like a calm before the storm. And with all of the odd machinery and stuff from the Shredder, it almost helped to emphasize how major the empire was and how much control he was able to have and how much interference he could administer.

I liked this one a lot.

[NameGoesHere1066]

aww, the intorduction of Baxter Stockman. I loved his first appearance and I loved how willing Shredder was to have killed after he went home. I think that was the first and only time the robotic foot soldiers ever seemed threatening was when they where sent to kill Baxter...before the turtles showed up and mangled them.

[Coola Yagami]

Ah yes.. and who can also forget that this ep had the Tubular Transports as flying video cameras that would appear as enemies in the first TMNT Arcade Game, TMNT III Manhattan Project and the Game Boy games.

[Prowler]

"You'd better, or else I'm gonna get... sarcastic."

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

And the transport module was the originally one, connected to the Technodrome, which was seen in the video games. Not those used during later seasons.

[The Big Bad]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I *really* hate the scene at April's apartment. While the fact that the turtles didn't really "get" interacting with humans had been a minor plot point before, here they go from "unsocialized" to "two-year-olds". In what world is it acceptable to just throw lipstick at walls? Just how is the Cagney-referencing Raphael not able to tell what a "capful" means? Who the heck told them they could just waltz in like they owned the place? People complain about the original toon turtles being misrepresented in Turtles Forever, and while they may have a case, this episode show that their take is not entirely without precedent, either.

[Jester]

This episode kinda gets the shaft in the "movie" version of the pilot. Poor Baxter is almost completely removed from "The Saga Begins."

[oldmanwinters]

This episode kinda gets the shaft in the "movie" version of the pilot. Poor Baxter is almost completely removed from "The Saga Begins."

I know you feel like Hot Roddin' Teenagers should have been the one to suffer from the cutting room, but A Thing About Rats probably is the least essential episode of the bunch... with the only exception being the introduction of Baxter to explain how the turtles got the van and the lab.

Still, was F.H.E. really not able to fit 100 minutes of footage onto a single VHS? I'm so glad we live in the era of DVD. Although from what I've heard, the original Lionsgate DVD release was going to consist of "The Epic Beings" until David Wise warned them of a fan riot. :-)

[Jester]

I know you feel like Hot Roddin' Teenagers should have been the one to suffer from the cutting room, but A Thing About Rats probably is the least essential episode of the bunch... with the only exception being the introduction of Baxter to explain how the turtles got the van and the lab.

Still, was F.H.E. really not able to fit 100 minutes of footage onto a single VHS? I'm so glad we live in the era of DVD. Although from what I've heard, the original Lionsgate DVD release was going to consist of "The Epic Beings" until David Wise warned them of a fan riot. :-)
Indeed. I may dislike Hot Roddin' Teenagers, but it is more essential to the story than A Thing About Rats...I mean excising it, really does little to confuse you...aside from the van. I'm glad Wise made Lionsgate "wise" up. As much as I dislike the Neutrinos (which is the main reason I don't like the 4th episode) I'd hate to not have the episode.

[CyberCubed]

The 4th episode rocked simply for General Traag and Lt. Granitor.

[pannoni1]

One thing however that may weigh against this as the "worst" episode of the pilot is the "A Better Mousetrap/Attack Of The Mousers" from the 2K3 series, which I will admit is a better plot. The question about when to introduce April is another thing, as such Turtles childish behavior looks like that they don't even know who April was until this episode. Instead of April from 2K3 witnessing the mouser demonstration, we have an average Joe instead. Plus the mousers feel cheap compared to the 2K3 version. Another big difference is that Shredder assists Baxter here, unlike 2K3 where Baxter himself created many mousers and would view him as more useful, whereas in A Thing About Rats, it is really Shredder that pirates Baxter just to stop the Turtles. The introduction of what would become Turtle Van however is what I like about this episode, along with Mikey trying to stop Shredder's plans here.

[triplexxx]

Stockman's mistake was that he was willing to work for Shredder knowing full well that his inventions were being used for evil means. That makes him a greedy lackey and he deserved the full penalty of the law.He didn't know what Shredder intended to use his invention for, and a scientist searching for a means of mass production for his invention is hardly a crime, though Baxter not checking Shredder for business credentials and easily agreeing to work in an empty rundown mansion was probably naive of him.

The two things I suppose Baxter can be rightfully charged with is mass-producing inventions that don't meet safety standards and causing massive destruction of property. Even if he didn't know what his inventions were being used for, he knew his invention chewed through walls/furnishings/etc to do what they were meant to, that more than likely qualifies as careless and reckless.

[Xav]

The Turtles saw the Foot Soldiers about to off Stockman. You know the Turtles could have told him they just saved his life and that Shredder was a bad guy. Could have offered to protect him. Maybe could have turned him into an ally. But no instead they tie him to a lamp post, threaten him, and steal his van. They left him helpless knowing full well Shredder wanted to kill him. Some heroes in a half-shell they turned out to be.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

The Turtles saw the Foot Soldiers about to off Stockman. You know the Turtles could have told him they just saved his life and that Shredder was a bad guy. Maybe could have turned him into an ally. But no instead they tie him to a lamp post and steal his van.

In tho original Eastman and Laird series, Baxter Stockman was a villain in his own right, and his mousers were not invented for good intentions.

[MikeandRaph87]

In tho original Eastman and Laird series, Baxter Stockman was a villain in his own right, and his mousers were not invented for good intentions.

If memory serves Baxter did invent them for good intentions but also thought he would be entertained by the thrill of robbing banks for funding that he could have gotten legally through distribution of the mousers. For better or worse I doubt Baxter Stockman will never be known as something other than Shredder's underling beyond the Mirage comics.

[Metropoliskid41]

For better or worse I doubt Baxter Stockman will never be known as something other than Shredder's underling beyond the Mirage comics.

Well now in the IDW comics he appears to be Krang's underling :trazz:

[Xav]

Don't forgot in the 4Kids toon he also got to be Bishop's and Hun's underling.

[Filespit]

This is a great episode, but so is the whole season 1. One thing I've always wondererd though. When the turtles push the van up the stairs, how in the world did they manage to get it through the door!? =P

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

This is a great episode, but so is the whole season 1. One thing I've always wondererd though. When the turtles push the van up the stairs, how in the world did they manage to get it through the door!? =P

Isn't that "Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension X"?

[Killer Moth]

Besides being the obligatory Baxter/Mouser episode, it serves its purpose well as a breather. It's clear such an episode was needed, as the other episodes in the five-part pilot are quite heavy and intense in their way. Hence, the term.

A crucial aspect is the rather successful bridge between comedic Shredder and villain Shredder. While he usurped Baxter's invention, he did successfully destroy April's apartment building along the way. The plothole of "what about April's other tenants" aside, it was a successful bit of villainy. Not to mention, he paraphrased or start the phrase famously coined by Rita Repulsa several years beforehand ("it feels so good to be so bad").

Speaking of villainy, Krang plays a subtle-yet-key role, as well. After viewing "Enter The Shredder" and "Rats" back-to-back, there is a stark difference with both his character design -- from darker and monstrous to lighter and softer -- and his personality. The episode really makes the start of the whining, impatient warlord we'd know and somewhat love. His unexpected assistance with Mike also displays some subtlety and irony, when such details would likely have been telegraphed in other series at the time. (The former, of course, is his motivation to have Shredder fail with the Mousers, so there is no other recourse than to build his body; the latter is "I'll assist you today, so I can kill you, tomorrow, instead." Not that Mike was aware of the implication, but there it is.)

The Turtles had their moments, especially Mike in the climax. Mike tends to be underused frequently, so any episode where he saves the day should always be spotlighted. Meanwhile, as a pleasant side bonus, Raph was allowed to show his Mirage side when he first met Baxter, and what may be the most deadly use of sarcasm in 80's children animation.

We shouldn't forget about the comedy gold with the Turtles in April's apartment, even though, The Big Bad's criticisms are well taken. ("Raph knows Cagney, yet doesn't know what a capful is?") The Turtles said they watched television in the first episode, so one would think they would have some idea about what's inside an apartment. Oh, well, perhaps, it's the price to pay after all the semi-serious ness in "Enter the Shredder" and the following two episodes.

My assessment of Baxter's character will be in a future post, as there is much to say about him and what he'll become. At the very least, he certainly displayed a confidence than the sniveling underling we'd first see in "Return of the Shredder." Quite a revision.

[ryukenden]

It was pretty dark for Shredder to send foot soldiers to silence Baxter. But then wanting to kill him became moot as Shredder took Baxter as his sidekick throughout the Eye arc. The apartment antics were hilarious. :D

[Killer Moth]

It was pretty dark for Shredder to send foot soldiers to silence Baxter. But then wanting to kill him became moot as Shredder took Baxter as his sidekick throughout the Eye arc. The apartment antics were hilarious. :D

Indeed, and apparently, he was too tired to realize the Foot Soldiers were about to shoot him? And, yes, it is or will be ironic to see Shredder changing his mind about Baxter in the next season. "Sorry about the attempted murder, there."

Either way, right, the episode foreshadowed a rather chilling pattern with how close Baxter would face death over the seasons. Given how '03 Baxter cheated death many times, it's a core theme with animated versions of Baxter, it seems. While the Foot Soldiers failed, Krang would try his best to "finish the job" in the next season. Sighs. But then, he would dish it out in his last two syndicated episodes, so it all compensates.

It's a pity the Mousers couldn't return in some form, but at least, they had a second life in the video games.

All this and April in a bathrobe, and people rank this episode lower because why? Heh.

Exit question: Can someone explain what Shredder was saying to the Foot Soldiers, "use the Turtle-team cycle?" Is that what he said? Because I've watched the episodes many times and I still can't quite make out what he said. Or, maybe my hearing is off, whichever.

[Dirty Blond]

This is my favorite episode of the first season and one of my all-time favorites of the OT. I think Raphael really shines, and I remember it solidified him as my all-time number-one Turtle.

[MikeandRaph87]

This is my favorite episode of the first season and one of my all-time favorites of the OT. I think Raphael really shines, and I remember it solidified him as my all-time number-one Turtle.

Its the fact that its a great blend of the scarastic hothead. The scarcasm has been left out but this is one of the few episodes that demonstrate the perfect templete for how Raphael can be portrayed. Raphael will always be awesome but he needs the sarcasm aspect of his personality as well!

[SherlockJr]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I *really* hate the scene at April's apartment. While the fact that the turtles didn't really "get" interacting with humans had been a minor plot point before, here they go from "unsocialized" to "two-year-olds". In what world is it acceptable to just throw lipstick at walls? Just how is the Cagney-referencing Raphael not able to tell what a "capful" means? Who the heck told them they could just waltz in like they owned the place? People complain about the original toon turtles being misrepresented in Turtles Forever, and while they may have a case, this episode show that their take is not entirely without precedent, either.

Thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way! The OT is far from realistic, but this--- ugh.

Anyways, I do love this episode, and pretty much agree with the previous posts on what makes it good. :)

[Killer Moth]

Thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way! The OT is far from realistic, but this--- ugh.

Anyways, I do love this episode, and pretty much agree with the previous posts on what makes it good. :)

Considering the next two episodes are rather serious, Wise and Howeth decided to spend all the remaining silliness in that scene, if not the entire episode. While I do enjoy the scene, it is one where it helps Turtles Forever and its compelling case about their silliness.

Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

[MikeandRaph87]

Considering the next two episodes are rather serious, Wise and Howeth decided to spend all the remaining silliness in that scene, if not the entire episode. While I do enjoy the scene, it is one where it helps Turtles Forever and its compelling case about their silliness.

Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

Time for a little knoweldge trade Mr. Moth. Pattie Howeth was not David Wise's co-writer. She was intended to be but ended up pulling out of the project and Wise did it all on his own. It may have something to do with the fact she and Wise were engaged and they broke it off around that time.

As for my question who is David Hedison? I ask here opposed to a search engine to make sure I understand your comparison.

[Killer Moth]

Time for a little knoweldge trade Mr. Moth. Pattie Howeth was not David Wise's co-writer. She was intended to be but ended up pulling out of the project and Wise did it all on his own. It may have something to do with the fact she and Wise were engaged and they broke it off around that time.

As for my question who is David Hedison? I ask here opposed to a search engine to make sure I understand your comparison.

I didn't know that about Howeth. She still has a story credit in "Return of the Shredder," and then she's gone from the series. Although, that fact of their engagement and break-up might explain a few things, as I'm not familiar with her writing style, anyway, and can't yet tell which story elements were hers and which ones were Wise's.

As for Hedison, he played the 50's version of "The Fly." I suppose I could have mentioned Jeff Goldblum, instead, as people would be more familiar with his version, yet the series' throwbacks to the 50's-60's era made the Hedison reference more apt. Anyway, enjoy "The Fly" trailer and theater cards in the video below.

qYdmhriBg04

[MikeandRaph87]

I didn't know that about Howeth. She still has a story credit in "Return of the Shredder," and then she's gone from the series. Although, that fact of their engagement and break-up might explain a few things, as I'm not familiar with her writing style, anyway, and can't yet tell which story elements were hers and which ones were Wise's.

As for Hedison, he played the 50's version of "The Fly." I suppose I could have mentioned Jeff Goldblum, instead, yet the series' throwbacks to the 50's-60's era made the Hedison reference more apt. Anyway, enjoy "The Fly" trailer video below.

Here it is. Its been about three years since I saw this video which Wise revealed the other name credit is his ex-fiancee'/wife. She was to help him when he was "sick of writing cartoons" but "quickly realized she was useless as she was not a writer".

I can never get the youtube link to work so here is the hyperlink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUHMVbf_hg

I appreciate he disassociates himself with Carter,Dregg, and Zack!:D Note that there is a second part to this.

I actually saw the original version about seven months ago but I did not know the names of any of the actors. I see what you are referring to now.

[Killer Moth]

Here it is. Its been about three years since I saw this video which Wise revealed the other name credit is his ex-fiancee'/wife. She was to help him when he was "sick of writing cartoons" but "quickly realized she was useless as she was not a writer".

I can never get the youtube link to work so here is the hyperlink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUHMVbf_hg

I appreciate he disassociates himself with Carter,Dregg, and Zack!:D Note that there is a second part to this.

I actually saw the original version about seven months ago but I did not know the names of any of the actors. I see what you are referring to now.

My thanks for the video. I don't have the time to view it properly now, but I will later. At least, Wise didn't do what some writers would do: swipe at their ex through their fiction. (Looking at you, Scott Lobdell.)

Anyway, I'll be doing my share of Hedison references in the "Enter: The Fly" thread, as I'll hopefully post on that, soon. I want to post on "Hot Rodding Teenagers" next.

To get back on topic a little, interesting how the Ajax manager apparently doesn't understand economics and how he'd be sitting on a gold mine as less rats is a good thing, due to that silly detail -- like being a public health hazard. Not to mention, the Mouser could be reprogrammed for other pests, as well. Or am I missing something?

The point was to give a pretense for Baxter to be with Shredder, yet apparently Wise couldn't think of a less facepalm-ish way about it. Oh, well.

[Neutrino]

this episode is strangely placed as the second movie on the FHE home video "Hot Rodding Teenagers".




Growing up I always found it odd having owned all the VHS tapes this was the next episode! Now owning the DVD set it makes much more sense.

I do like this episode but it was so odd an entire apartment building was destroyed and there was 0 mention of the people who died. :o

[Refractive Reflections]

I do like this episode but it was so odd an entire apartment building was destroyed and there was 0 mention of the people who died. :o

It was odd, but I assumed that since the Mousers were chewing their way up to April's apartment (who knows how many floors it was though), those residents saw the destructive nature of it that it made people leave the apartment quickly.

LOL... yeah it was still odd though considering the odds. :lol:

[Pterobat]

If this thread's open again, I'm going to go full nerd with some point-form reviewing:

Oh hey, one of my favourites, due to my childhood Splinter obsession, and my new liking for Baxter Stockman.

I can't remember if I actually saw this episode as a kid: I still have my tattered colouring book adaptation, "Rat Trap", but as for watching the actual animation, your guess is as good as mine.

The continuity as this episode opens is nice, as the Turtles are still focused on restoring Splinter to his human form, though soon he'll decide he is comfortable as a rat (unlike my *other* favourite character in this show).

One thing I like about this episode, as opposed to some later ones, is that even if Splinter and even April are at a disadvantage and end up being rescued by the Turtles, they stand up and fight back.

For example, I love the scene of Splinter and April facing down the Mousers with just chops and kitchen equipment--they might not win alone, but at least they get up and try. I wish the secondary characters showing more initiative was a consistent thing in this show, but I appreciate it when it happens, here and in some of the Sarnath episodes.

Baxter fascinates / annoys me because unlike any other incarnation of the character, he starts off ordinary and unvillainous but later turns evil, and we never know why. I also find it odd that he might have been raceswapped to avoid having another black villain, but then he didn't appear evil at first anyway. In fact, this easily could have been Baxter's last appearance.

As for the question of Baxter's innocence--a distinction between knowingly and unknowingly doing evil should be made, but it doesn't mean he gets off scot-free. He gave Shredder the Mousers, and stood back and did nothing else, so there's something on his conscience at least, something deserving punishment.


Even though, I am appreciating the episode more and more, I always feel a pang of sadness whenever I see Baxter, knowing what will become of him. Then again, back when we all saw this in 1987, who knew the series would eventually turn him into its version of David Hedison?

Moreover, it's a pity he didn't keep his laid back characterization. Besides not freaking out about seeing Shredder in full villainous garb, he didn't even flinch in seeing Bebop and Rocksteady or the Turtles for the first time, either. As opposed to his high-strung frenized approach for the rest of the series. Oh, well.

I don't think Baxter's silence is due to stoicism, though--more like he belatedly realized what he's gotten himself into, but isn't strong enough to walk away, so he freezes up and hopes nobody notices him any more than they need to, and that he can walk away unscathed. So much for that...

I like the personality in Baxter's character animation when he first appears, too: very twitchy and eager as he shows off the Mouser to the guy.

It still doesn't quite make sense that Baxter would go off with a stranger cloaked in shadow, but I can sort of see why. Baxter is both stupid and arrogant: "It's about time somebody discovered me!"--he leaves his name on the Mousers, which Donnie actually calls him an idiot on. Pride mixed with desperation can get some terrible results.

(One thing I noticed was that Baxter is rarely called by his last name, while other versions are most often called "Stockman", which might accidentally show the lack of respect the FW version has / earns)

Anyway, I like it whenever the series comments on the Turtles possibly messing up April's life and routine. It's the kind of wryness I wish the series had more of, which is why I approve of the apartment chaos that goes on.

(Also, like me, April loves her giant purses.)

Maybe it's the wanton destruction of property that's inherent in Mousers that was the real problem, you think?

I flip-flop on how much I agree with the notion that season 1 was the "ideal" for the OT. Sometimes I like the upgraded goofiness of later episodes, and on the other end, sometimes season 1 isn't as refined as it seems. The destruction of the apartment building and how everybody laughs it off is one of the worst examples of that second thing, though I imagine that the writers either didn't care, or assumed it was an edited-Dragonball-Z-dub deal, where the rest of the building was "conveniently" empty.

I can't help but think Baxter's warehouse apartment reminds me of Seth Brundle's, though I'm sure that's not intentional.

I know it's weird, but I think it's really, really hilarious the way Raph threatens to stab Baxter in the face, and the way the Turtles gank his van like it's no big deal.

And oh yeah, some continuity errors. Or the Foot Soldiers and Krang can both travel *really* damn fast.

You know, I totally believe Krang was desperate enough for "A bawwwddeeeee!" that he would help the Turtles. Easy as anything.

Some bits of animation and art in this episode are good, others are bad. It's a really mixed bag.

It's a fun one.

[BlindFaith]

This is an OK episode but I don't find it as memorable as the previous two.

I don't care that much for Baxter pre-mutation but one of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Shredder, cast in shadows, approaches Baxter in the ally behind the Ajax Pest Control. There's this looming music in the background as Shredder steps forward "A short sighted fool doesn't know what he's missing!" Great atmosphere in that scene!

Besides that, the episode is good at building upon the Shredder-Krang rivalry! And seeing the Turtles in April's apartment was very refreshing and humorous! :tsmile:

[BlindFaith]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I *really* hate the scene at April's apartment. While the fact that the turtles didn't really "get" interacting with humans had been a minor plot point before, here they go from "unsocialized" to "two-year-olds". In what world is it acceptable to just throw lipstick at walls? Just how is the Cagney-referencing Raphael not able to tell what a "capful" means? Who the heck told them they could just waltz in like they owned the place? People complain about the original toon turtles being misrepresented in Turtles Forever, and while they may have a case, this episode show that their take is not entirely without precedent, either.

I personally like the scene because it shows the Turtles "out of their element" so to speak. They're in a civilized environment with all of the culture, commercial products and whatever else comes with it.

But I do agree with you that with their morale and ethics they would not behave as stupid as they did in that scene. I guess it was a way for the writers to have some fun with the civilized apartment complex vs "growing up in the sewers with Splinter" idea :tsmile:

[cammy85]

Good points, Blindfaith!! This must've been the most time they've spent on the surface so far. So you can't really blame them for screwing up but yeah, they should've known better.

[mikey22]

doyou love the vhs tapes how they showed this in the wrong order! i was so confused as a kid until i figured it out lol

[MikeandRaph87]

That brings me to ask,how were episodes chosen for VHS release? Some really good ones never got released. Heck a grand total of 38% made it but some great ones left out and some subpar ones made it instead. Thankfully DVDs made up for that but oh the agnozing year in between!

Best part of the episode was Mike volunteered to go in alone and Krang's part leading to the group not believing Mike about Krang's partnership with Shredder. With all the sci-fi they watch and the fact they are mutated by alien chemicals they didn't believe Mike seemed odd.

How did you like the episode's star Mike driving without any practice? Awesome!

The one person that was legitimately attempted to be killed was Baxter Stockman. This character cannot catch any breaks.Easily the most abused character in the franchise. Shredder wanted the foot soldiers to kill the man. Too bad he did not send them out to do something like that later on in the series.

[BlindFaith]

That's a really good question I think...I wonder if the companies behind the VHS releases gave it much thought. It seemed to be very random - sometimes the appeal/idea behind some of those "two or three episode VHS collections" seems to be exactly that - Here's a couple of random Turtle adventures that you may not have seen before! Perfect just to pop into the VCR and have fun for an hour or two but nothing more. It's also I guess a bit of a money grab in those times when Turtles were really hot...People buying many tapes to get more episodes.

Michelangelo suggests that one turtle have a better chance than three and Raphael is the one basically taking him up on it :tsmile:. But I agree, I also think this is part of his character development. If you remember, at the start of the previous episode, Mike fights Leonardo on the mat and gets "smoked" because he still needs to learn to be "patient" and "cool"...I think he displays some of that in these later episodes.


Yes, Baxter is definitely at the receiving end a great deal but he's also the first outside guy to know of Shredder and his operations which is why Shredder wants him out of the way. Shredder needed his technology but now "he knows too much"! Shredder was right too, it only takes Raphael to threaten to get "sarcastic" to make Baxter spill all the beans on Shredder and his whereabouts :tgrin: