Have You Seen This?

[Bauer536]

I just found them recently. This person makes some interesting points, but I don't think I can agree with him.

Also, it's making me feel that maybe we are wrong about this show. I don't think we are, but it's killing me now that I've read his posts.

This is one of them.

http://gokaigato.tumblr.com/post/65294441637/time-ill-never-get-back-reviews-tmnt-2k12

[Powder]

No, & I wish I hadn't. Someone being an uppity crybaby on Tumblr? Unheard of. I couldn't make it through that whole thing. That used diaper of a turtles fan needs to realize that this show is its own universe and has every right to take liberties with the personalities and designs of any character they wish. It's simply not for them. They have to learn to accept that and move on.

[Bauer536]

No, & I wish I hadn't. Someone being an uppity crybaby on Tumblr? Unheard of. I couldn't make it through that whole thing. That used diaper of a turtles fan needs to realize that this show is its own universe and has every right to take liberties with the personalities and designs of any character they wish. It's simply not for them. They have to learn to accept that and move on.

The show has flaws, I know. Maybe not all of it is realistic (especially if it's about talking turtles), but sometimes, I've been wondering if characters like Leo and Don have been portrayed wrong in this adaptation. I absolutely love this series, and I don't want that to change because of this. Yet, some of his points make sense.

He was ranting about how stupid the "Cockroach Terminator" was, along with Raph's reaction. Also, he can be right about the turtles not going after the mutants by the end.

I don't know. After reading this, I'm worried I won't be able to enjoy this show anymore. I didn't think I'd stumble upon this.:tsad:

[Powder]

There is no "wrong" with regard to the turtles' behavior. They've got their base personalities developed by Mirage & the OT, and have added elements that keep the characters fresh and make them unique in their own new universe. If not for those new traits, the show wouldn't be as successful as it is. Fact. You have always come off as a weird case to me, you're way too emotional and far too easily influenced by others. Think for yourself as you had been prior and just enjoy the damn show. There's no need to over-analyze it. & just because someone makes a few points you relate to doesn't mean you share an opinion wholesale.

[victory_angel]

This review this person wrote on Tumbler isn't wrong, but they aren't right either. That is purely his/her opinion and that's all it is. Just like everyone else on this forum has their own opinions regarding this particular series.

The people who are making this series are familiar with the other incarnations of the show, they are fans of Ninja Turtles and understand the mythos and ethos of the story and it's characters. But at the same time they are also adding their own characteristics to the characters to make them fresh for a new generation as fans, but still keeping characteristics that the older fans would recognize.

2K3 Leo had an appreciation for Karai and Karai the same for him. It wasn't love not in the the way we think of it anyway. It was mutual respect for who they were as warriors, but was that same honor that also made them bitter enemies. Karai holding loyalty to the Shredder, even though she knew the Shredder did dishonorable things. I.E. Retrieving the device that is holding part of Beijing aloft even though removing it would cause the deaths of numerous innocent people.

And the same is true here in the 2012 version.
Karai and Leo do have a respect for each other as warriors or rather did when they first encountered each other. And Karai has warned Leo that she wasn't to be trusted and she has been given orders to eliminate him and his brothers. But she also admitted that Leo was the first thing in the city that interested her. Karai's major issue in this case is not so much whether she is struggling with her honor, but more rather trying to gauge when she's being honest and when she's just playing on Leo's feelings.

When Leo and Karai first meet, Karai does try to entice him to let go of his morals and see what it's like to act without the restraint of whats right and wrong. A good theory to this is because by seducing Leo into a life of crime she hopes that the Shredder would see him more as an asset to have on their side vs. a disciple of his enemy. And another theory is that by tossing aside his morals even for a small moment would destroy Leo's honor and lead to his self destruction.

Leo in the 2k3 was more confident in himself and where he stood as a leader. He respected the individual traits of each of his brothers because those traits are what made them an unstoppable force. But even he wasn't completely flawless and some of his actions bit him back.

Leo in the 2012 version is less confident in his leadership ability. So he relies on the actions of people such as Splinter and Captain Ryan. Which often leaves him in consternation whenever his brothers don't follow his by the book way of thinking. But he is steadily improving to as the series progresses.

As for wondering how Leo and Don have been portrayed wrong it depends on what you classify as wrong. If you think the wrongness resides in the fact they both have love interests.

I could say the love interest works because they are teenagers, they are hormonal, and yes they are going to be attracted to someone female. And both love interests may have their own reasons of being that you can take as you will. Such as Leo possibly realizing that he was attracted to Karai because he could sense a familiarity in her.

If you consider it wrong that Leo and Donnie are a bit more testy in this incarnation then they have in other incarnations. Again this they haven't officially become the cohesive team we know and love as of yet, but they are trying. And also these are a new take on these characters so you aren't going to see the same Leo and Don who were in the Ot or the 2k3 version.

[TigerClaw]

So one person didn't like the new series? Oh well, you can't please everyone. I like the Nick series as much as anyone else.

[Luckyday]

If there is one thing that I strongly disagree with him on it's April O'Neil. If you take out April in this show then you had to change the characters' main motivation. Also, I don't mind that she is a bit weak in this series because I know she GROW into a badass but this time it's going to be a slow climb for her to get there.

[kelligrafie]

The tone in which that 'review' was written, indicates that the person who wrote it spends their entire life pointing out everyone else's flaws while they themself, probably still get their mother to do their laundry.

The only fulfilment they get is by sitting in front of a computer all day slagging off people who have the jobs they want but will never have.

Don't let them or their pathetic little bitchfests upset you. They're only doing it to make themselves feel better about their own pitiful existance.

I can't be doing with tossers like that. There's no need. If a TV show upsets you that much, don't watch it. It doesn't require an unattainable amount of logic to realise that.

[Rooish]

I think this reviewer nailed it. The turtles we are watching are different than others, and not in a way that is relatable to all people. When they become dicks I kind of like them less. Leo especially.

[TigerClaw]

According to that Tumblr, The person claims to be a huge TMNT fan, Yet that review is completely negative.

[Aaronardo]

Whores doing some whiny bitching on Tumblr. That has NEVER happened before.

[BubblyShell22]

I have seen this, and I just don't care. People are going to have different opinions about things, and if they don't like the new show, that's their opinion. I disagree with what this person has said, but they have the right to say it. Just ignore it and enjoy the show.

[BabyTurtles]

I have seen this, and I just don't care. People are going to have different opinions about things, and if they don't like the new show, that's their opinion. I disagree with what this person has said, but they have the right to say it. Just ignore it and enjoy the show.

exactly :) if you are enjoying the show then continue to enjoy it :D

some people will like certain things about it and some people won't :3
just depends on the person.

[Xav]

According to that Tumblr, The person claims to be a huge TMNT fan, Yet that review is completely negative.Right because being a fan of something means you have to mindlessly love anything associated with it. :roll:

[Bauer536]

Right because being a fan of something means you have to mindlessly love anything associated with it. :roll:

He has a point. If you like TMNT, it is possible you won't like a certain adaptation. I enjoy the 2k12 series, and sometimes, when a turtle gets cocky, I look at it as okay. At least they're not whining all the time like babies. Strange. I don't mind some of the changes on this show, but I still don't like the IDW comics. I guess it's because of its content.

[Jester]

Content is usually why people don't like things, yes.

You can be a fan and not like EVERYTHING, but you should at least give them a decent shot.

[CyberCubed]

This thread needs to be locked.

A random whiner on tumblr doesn't deserve a thread here.

[Jester]

This thread needs to be locked.

A random whiner on tumblr doesn't deserve a thread here.
And yet we still let you create new threads....

[CyberCubed]

This thread is meaningless. Why link to some random tumblr rant? Especially when the guy from tumblr is probably some bitter teen?

[Technogeek29]

Shrugs~ despite my constant complaining, I do like this show I just point out what I hate as oppossed to what I like. This version isn't for everybody if you prefer OT above all else than watch that version and ignore everything else for all I care.

My niece watches TMNT as well but the 2k12 just doesn't hold her interest, often watching my OT DVD's and going on youtube for 2k3. I asked her and she couldn't really give me an answer other than "I don't like it" for some its just as simple as that.

[Jester]

This thread is meaningless. Why link to some random tumblr rant? Especially when the guy from tumblr is probably some bitter teen?
No thread is truly pointless if it spurs conversation. I mean this is a message board where people express their differing opinions, not just an echo chamber.

[Rooish]

I know the Turtles got cocky in Mirage and IDW, but I somehow find it different in this show... harsher... I know some people feel the cameraderie more in this show, but I feel it less than ever because the Turtles are so ugsome, not like me as a teen or any teens I hung out with! I think the reviewer is spot on in a different review. He says yes, the 2k12 Turtles act like "normal teenagers"... if you have a stereotyped view of asshole irresponsible all American boys in your mind as teenagers. Other teens are way more mature than these guys, especially when they are raised by someone as strict as this Splinter.

[MrTMNT2012]

I just found them recently. This person makes some interesting points, but I don't think I can agree with him.

Also, it's making me feel that maybe we are wrong about this show. I don't think we are, but it's killing me now that I've read his posts.

This is one of them.

http://gokaigato.tumblr.com/post/65294441637/time-ill-never-get-back-reviews-tmnt-2k12

Just your average 4Kids purist who still lives in 2003. Nothing to worry about, the show is great aside all nitpicks! :tsmile:

[BabyTurtles]

I know the Turtles got cocky in Mirage and IDW, but I somehow find it different in this show... harsher... I know some people feel the cameraderie more in this show, but I feel it less than ever because the Turtles are so ugsome, not like me as a teen or any teens I hung out with! I think the reviewer is spot on in a different review. He says yes, the 2k12 Turtles act like "normal teenagers"... if you have a stereotyped view of asshole irresponsible all American boys in your mind as teenagers. Other teens are way more mature than these guys, especially when they are raised by someone as strict as this Splinter.

but they AREN'T jerks. They are VERY nice to April, and her dad and are respectful to Splinter....and anyone GOOD.

they were even a hesitant to beat down on Baxter just because he was in a robo suit. (when they first met)

heck they even tried to save SpiderBytes (before he mutated) even though that guy was a complete jerk. (except Raph, but he was learning a lesson and the dude was pushing his buttons)

they are jerks to anyone BAD though.....I would be too XD

they aren't even irresponsible! they are taking responsibility for their actions right now in season 2. (just because you did something stupid once doesn't make you an irresponsible teenager)

and if you mean each other? they are brothers, they are gonna be harsher toward each other for the heck of it XD they aren't doing it to be nasty, they are doing it cause it's fun to mess with your siblings. They still have plenty of bonding time and like hanging out with each other.

and let's face it most of the harsh words are from the angry turtle, Raph.
and it doesn't take much for Raph to snap at you.
http://static.tumblr.com/599b0e0e3f961e95d8865a78fdacaaa1/g9b7x1d/nX2mpmlmu/tumblr_static_raph_angry.gif


IDK.....I guess I just don't see it.

[Xav]

You can be a fan and not like EVERYTHING, but you should at least give them a decent shot.I don't know I mean the reviewer sat though 18 episodes I think he gave it a pretty decent shot.
Just your average 4Kids purist who still lives in 2003. Nothing to worry about, the show is great aside all nitpicks! :tsmile:
It had been years since we had a TMNT adaptation and honestly, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed just about every version of the turtles (Mirage comics, IDW comics, 1987 series, movies, 2k3, even certain aspects of Next Mutation).Yup sounds like a 4Kids purist to me.

[Bauer536]

but they AREN'T jerks. They are VERY nice to April, and her dad and are respectful to Splinter....and anyone GOOD.

they were even a hesitant to beat down on Baxter just because he was in a robo suit. (when they first met)

heck they even tried to save SpiderBytes (before he mutated) even though that guy was a complete jerk. (except Raph, but he was learning a lesson and the dude was pushing his buttons)

they are jerks to anyone BAD though.....I would be too XD

they aren't even irresponsible! they are taking responsibility for their actions right now in season 2. (just because you did something stupid once doesn't make you an irresponsible teenager)

and if you mean each other? they are brothers, they are gonna be harsher toward each other for the heck of it XD they aren't doing it to be nasty, they are doing it cause it's fun to mess with your siblings. They still have plenty of bonding time and like hanging out with each other.

and let's face it most of the harsh words are from the angry turtle, Raph.
and it doesn't take much for Raph to snap at you.
http://static.tumblr.com/599b0e0e3f961e95d8865a78fdacaaa1/g9b7x1d/nX2mpmlmu/tumblr_static_raph_angry.gif


IDK.....I guess I just don't see it.

I couldn't have said it better than myself.:tsmile:

BabyTurtles, you are on the mark. The only thing I will disagree with is that they're not irresponsible. They can be responsible and do their job right, but sometimes, they make that one mistake that messes up everything.

Otherwise, to say that this is not realistic is false. As someone who has a brother, I can relate to the turtles, mostly on the Leo and Raph side. I love my brother, but there are time when we are angry with one another. We end up saying things we regret later. It happens.


I think the only problem I'm having right now is the fear that the turtles are incompetent. But, I don't see it that way in every episode.

[JH24]

@ Babyturtles


Very well written, you've put everything into words in a way I never could.

As for the turtles being harsh, at times I attribute that to a writer of an episode. I noticed that in some episodes they're portrayed in a harsher way, yet in others they seem more "friendly/softer" in their behavior.

They do seem to appear as somewhat "cold" at times, but I feel that could be because Donatello feels the most human/compassionate in comparison. (Except the one with Mikey got Shellacne)


One thing I can remember that truly bothered me for quite a long time and put me off the series for awhile was the whole mess with Timothy in the episode he got mutated, in particular the ending scene.

[Tazi]

I enjoy Nick TMNT for what it is, but it's really not the direction I want TMNT to go... so I can agree with some of the stuff from that thumblr post.
4kids finally made the right steps with TMNT in 2003, then now Nick just ignores most of it... I still enjoy it for some extent, but it's a bitter enjoyment.

But honestly, I have the hardest time tolerating the anime facial expressions.

[mikey22]

if people like the old shows so much, just keep watching them lol why would they re-make a show 100% the same way the other one was? lol

[Tazi]

"not the way Nick did" is definitely not the same as "just like 4kids did", you know.

[Xav]

I enjoyed reading though the reviews they were pretty funny. I agreed with a lot of what the reviewer had to say even if he was a bit harsh at times. It was refreshing to see someone take a critical look at the series.

[Bauer536]

I enjoyed reading though the reviews they were pretty funny. I agreed with a lot of what the reviewer had to say even if he was a bit harsh at times. It was refreshing to see someone take a critical look at the series.

I wouldn't mind if it was done in a humorous way like the Honest Trailers, but he seriously sounded like he hated it. He didn't review any other episodes, so I'm guessing he stopped. I understand.

Still, he didn't have to be so mean about everything and calling Splinter a "dick." I know they're not real, but there are better ways of saying these things without being obnoxious.

Even I have to admit, there are things I don't get in the series. However, I enjoy it because of the character development, the action, and the fun factors. It's just downright enjoyable. I have had my least favorite episodes, occasionally, but there has not been a bad episode.

I do think the turtles have been competent, but they have their moments where they regress. I have seen things like this in other superhero TV series before.

And even if certain things aren't explained, sometimes, they don't have to be. It's up to us to use our imagination for that. Still, certain questions must be answered if it's important to the seasons' plots.

[Xav]

He didn't review any other episodes, so I'm guessing he stopped.What the hell are you talking about? He reviewed 18 episodes.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, Bauer, as harsh as that review was, that was his opinion. He perceived Splinter that way, and I can see where he'd get that impression considering that he made the Turtles switch weapons when they didn't know how to use each other's weapons. That was definitely a big mistake on Splinter's part for sure. I don't think Splinter is THAT bad, but he does make mistakes as anyone does.

[BabyTurtles]

Well, Bauer, as harsh as that review was, that was his opinion. He perceived Splinter that way, and I can see where he'd get that impression considering that he made the Turtles switch weapons when they didn't know how to use each other's weapons. That was definitely a big mistake on Splinter's part for sure. I don't think Splinter is THAT bad, but he does make mistakes as anyone does.

he's not perfect...and it's not like he knew the boys were gonna run into half their enemies that day.

..the turtles should inform their sensei more XD

[BODYCOUNT]

But i never was interested in the nick turtles anyway. At least i have IDW Turtles.

[BabyTurtles]

But i never was interested in the nick turtles anyway. At least i have IDW Turtles.

welp there's something for everyone :D

[bridgegrn]

I feel like people have a problem getting used to it because it's new. Probably the first time the turtles have been portrayed as actual teenagers as opposed to 20 year olds, as the 2k2 writers have said probably more accurately described their version of the characters. The most important aspect to me, and one I think they nailed, is taking the turtle's core personalities and expanding them and doing something new, while staying true to the characters. The turtles are brothers and while they love each other they don't always meet eye to eye and are a lot more likely to call each other out on their bs or, give each other **** just because. Though that may not be common to some it's pretty damn common for a lot of people lol.

[Bossa Nova]

I wouldn't mind if it was done in a humorous way like the Honest Trailers, but he seriously sounded like he hated it. He didn't review any other episodes, so I'm guessing he stopped. I understand.

Still, he didn't have to be so mean about everything and calling Splinter a "dick." I know they're not real, but there are better ways of saying these things without being obnoxious.



Except that a lot of what he wrote WAS really humorous. I definitely laughed at a good number of things that he wrote, and honestly I agree with a lot of the things he said. Of course not everything, I rather like Greg Cipes and his work on both Mikey and Beast Boy, but the level of stupidity that Nickelodeon has assigned poor Mikey really is quite frustrating.

[BabyTurtles]

Except that a lot of what he wrote WAS really humorous. I definitely laughed at a good number of things that he wrote, and honestly I agree with a lot of the things he said. Of course not everything, I rather like Greg Cipes and his work on both Mikey and Beast Boy, but the level of stupidity that Nickelodeon has assigned poor Mikey really is quite frustrating.

T^T it is a little....I'm sure they will brighten Mikey up though cause....Mikey can only get better right?? :D he's already dumb and gets ragged on alot....there's only up for him!! *____*

POSITIVITY!!
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/164/7/d/teen_titans_go__gif_by_wow1076-d53edg6.gif

[turtletoons81]

BabyTurtles:T^T it is a little....I'm sure they will brighten Mikey up though cause....Mikey can only get better right?? :D he's already dumb and gets ragged on alot....there's only up for him!! *____*

POSITIVITY!!


funny thing their was a uk nick tmnt panel and it has an issue of mikey being serious throughout his mission with his bros and he said that he tried to hold his laugh in until the very end it's a really nice comic you should totally check it out.

[Powder]

Imagine if you could have relayed that information without quoting a giant God damn gif.

[BabyTurtles]

Imagine if you could have relayed that information without quoting a giant God damn gif.

but it wouldn't have conveyed my emotions......*___*

also @turtletoon81: I read it already! XD it was sweet~ serious Mikey is just not normal.

[Powder]

I wasn't talking to you.

[turtletoons81]

I wasn't talking to you.

yeah i should've been careful this time if i see a huge gif set or pic.but hey thanks for helping me powder,i'll remember.

[ZariusTwo]

I didnt have a problem with the .gif, then again, anything that irritates Powder is ok in my book:lol:

As for this guy's critiques, I quite enjoyed it. Full of bite and snark, and backing himself up with concise logical points. I reckon it's only a matter of time before everyone eventually sees through the "Emperor's New Clothes" with this show.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I for one, don't think it's perfect, but what show really is? Still, it gives me enough enjoyment to watch. I still say the one thing that irks me is that the Turtles didn't know about pizza despite having a TV in their home. It just doesn't make sense. And I also don't really like how they mutated Kirby so soon and give him an excuse to just leave the show. It's not like he hates the Turtles and is grateful that they saved him and his daughter. Why not just let the guy stay human for a while? They'll probably do something to him in season three just to get him out of the way again. I feel sorry for the poor guy. I really do.

[Konchadunga]

I didnt have a problem with the .gif, then again, anything that irritates Powder is ok in my book:lol:

As for this guy's critiques, I quite enjoyed it. Full of bite and snark, and backing himself up with concise logical points. I reckon it's only a matter of time before everyone eventually sees through the "Emperor's New Clothes" with this show.

A lot of us have critiques, but most of us aren't cynical enough to let those color our whole enjoyment of the show, so no; there's nothing to see through. I think your post says that whether you enjoy that blog depends on whether you disliked the show already. Most of us, though, find liking things more fun than not liking them. Maybe it's unfair, but I stopped reading the blog the moment I got to the part where he said it was wrong for 2012 Leo not to be like 2003 Leo. That's not objective reasoning; it's nostalgia.

[Powder]

I didnt have a problem with the .gif, then again, anything that irritates Powder is ok in my book:lol:

In that case you must be one heck of a narcissist. :tlol:

[Aaronardo]

This thread:

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k520/Aaronardo/56158-Doctor-Who-10-laughing-gif-d1CI.gif (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Aaronardo/media/56158-Doctor-Who-10-laughing-gif-d1CI.gif.html)

[Candy Kappa]

Sure it's his opinion and all, but when he praise the "dynamic" between 2k3 Karai and Leo.

Nope nope nope nopenopenope!

That stuff terrible, horrible and down right stupid. And still today cringeworthy. Moral dilemma, yeah right.

[Xav]

Whores doing some whiny bitching on Tumblr.So people who don't like the same TV show as you are whores? :roll:

[BubblyShell22]

I would say that after this show has ended and we look back on it, we may see more flaws with it than we do now. I guess with me I'm just enjoying the ride and am just thankful we have a new show right now. And considering all the drama I've been dealing with, this show has really helped to cheer me up when I'm feeling down.

[Aaronardo]

So people who don't like the same TV show as you are whores? :roll:

Nonononononono. The guy is just bitching. He's not really putting up any good points. The only point he does bring up is that he's just whiny all the time. :x

[ticktack]

He had a common point that I've had before that Leo behaved OOC in 2 of episodes in a row the ninja villainess or a pawn for a villain appeared.

[ticktack]

Gokaigato, the tumblr poster, delivered the opinion in harsh way, I don't remember much, I've read the post days before.

[Bauer536]

To Zarius:

Yes, I have looked through the "Emperor's New Clothes," and it's not perfect. In fact, it's not like this is the end-all be-all of the franchise. However, it puts a smile on my face.:tgrin: I know there are things the creators could have done better, but the good parts take up the majority. I absolutely love this show, and according to most fans, I'd say they like it, too.:twink:

You don't have to like it. If you need that break, that's fine. It's happened to me before, especially with Batman. After the 1990s animated series, I thought I could never like any other Batman cartoon again. But I was wrong. The Batman and Brave and the Bold have been pleasurable. Not my favorites, but still fun nonetheless.

Maybe it's me, but I haven't had a favorite TMNT show until now. That's why this one has become so special to me.

Anyways, to everyone:

To see if that blogger was right (and he is sometimes), I watched clips of the episodes. He needs to chill.

Everything he said about the characters being degraded or moronic was wrong. Anything he said about their plans being stupid was because he didn't understand. And to say it's not realistic like the 2k3, I'm sure it's not in his world. But in someone else's, it must have been. This is more subjective rather than fact.

Anyways, he made such a big deal over Leo's plan to stop Snakeweed with a clothes line. I get why Leo wanted to do it, and to hear the blogger sarcastically call it brilliant probably just couldn't accept that Leo's still learning, that they could have stopped Snakeweed, or (as an easy and logical answer), IT'S JUST A CARTOON!:tmad:

He made such a fuss over everything, he was completely finding something wrong in every episode, especially when he said that Pigeon Pete had "Man Boobs." They weren't man boobs. It was just a muscular chest drawn in a awkward style. He was just being ridiculous.:trolleye:

So, after watching and enjoying the clips from episodes like "New Girl in Town" and "The Gauntlet," I've come to the conclusion that it's best to ignore him. We can have our critical point of views, but sure enough, while still enjoying this show.:twink:

[saber16]

It's a good thing I'm the one in charge of my opinions :D

[Konchadunga]

I'll give him this; he's the first purist I've seen who holds up the 2003 series as his standard; before it's always been either the Mirage or Fred Wolf series. However, being less trite does not make it any less stupid.

The inconvenient truth every TMNT fan has to acknowledge at some point is that they're not going to like everything the franchise does, because there is no broadly accepted "right" way to do it. That doesn't necessarily mean no wrong way to do it--a character like Venus screws the dynamic up in any version--but things like exactly how "mature" the turtles are and the intricacies of their personalities just aren't really set in stone. The 4Kids version of Leonardo and Karai is not the standard because it is, in itself, a deviation from the Mirage version.

Then, acknowledge that tastes change and what sort of character is admired before isn't necessarily the sort admired now. There's always a delicate balance when writing heroes--they need to have admirable qualities that make them role-models for their audience, but they also need flaws that make them relatable to them--but just where that balance lies seems to shift. Back when he debuted, Superman was popular; not so much now. Even as of the last two cartoons, people complained that Leonardo was a boring character, who seemed to have no personality traits besides obsession with duty. That means it's not wrong to make him a fan of cheesy old cartoons or have romantic interests; maybe it's not what everyone wanted, but it's something. Being not everybody's favorite turtle is a step up from being virtually nobody's.

[Papenbrook]

I try to ignore a person's complaints about the show, but if they have a very good reason to complain,with evidence to back it up, then I will listen.

[Bauer536]

I'll give him this; he's the first purist I've seen who holds up the 2003 series as his standard; before it's always been either the Mirage or Fred Wolf series. However, being less trite does not make it any less stupid.

The inconvenient truth every TMNT fan has to acknowledge at some point is that they're not going to like everything the franchise does, because there is no broadly accepted "right" way to do it. That doesn't necessarily mean no wrong way to do it--a character like Venus screws the dynamic up in any version--but things like exactly how "mature" the turtles are and the intricacies of their personalities just aren't really set in stone. The 4Kids version of Leonardo and Karai is not the standard because it is, in itself, a deviation from the Mirage version.

Then, acknowledge that tastes change and what sort of character is admired before isn't necessarily the sort admired now. There's always a delicate balance when writing heroes--they need to have admirable qualities that make them role-models for their audience, but they also need flaws that make them relatable to them--but just where that balance lies seems to shift. Back when he debuted, Superman was popular; not so much now. Even as of the last two cartoons, people complained that Leonardo was a boring character, who seemed to have no personality traits besides obsession with duty. That means it's not wrong to make him a fan of cheesy old cartoons or have romantic interests; maybe it's not what everyone wanted, but it's something. Being not everybody's favorite turtle is a step up from being virtually nobody's.

You, sir, hit the nail on the head.

Still, I think there are people who like Superman. Blame it on Man of Steel. In my opinion, the movie was garbage and didn't show Superman in a positive light.

Also, I do think Leonardo was always a favorite depending on who could relate to him. Now, he was not as popular as Mikey or Raph was, but he still had that star status.

Even during the 2k3 series, there were lots of fans of Leo, considering the others said he was boring. Truth is, not everyone can agree. The only thing that matters, whether or not Leo is dynamic or static, that his action figures are selling.:twink:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well, I for one, don't think it's perfect, but what show really is?

To some people, Batman: The Animated Series.:ohwell:

[darthwahl56]

To some people, Batman: The Animated Series.:ohwell:

That is one hell of a show. I always loved the opening to it, though I never liked it when the drawings changed for the new batman adventures.

This new TMNT show does have its flaws and this guy may have brought up a few good points, but this tumbler post was just a bit too whiny for my tastes. I knew going in Nick's show was going to be different and I was even hesistant about it. I like it still and just enjoy the ride for what it is, fun. I work with teens at a Pizza Hut and I am a bit older than they are. I have compared some of the ways they are to the current turtles. Many of the mannerisms the turtles have are spot on, not stereotypical; teens are irresponsible, inconsistent, loud, rude, obnoxious, and dumb. This is actually what I like about the show among other things, the fact that they are like this. They are imperfect people trying to get their balance in the world.

[Xav]

Nonononononono. The guy is just bitching. He's not really putting up any good points. The only point he does bring up is that he's just whiny all the time. :xI don't know I think he brought up some good points. Like how do the Turtles have a TV yet never heard of pizza? Or why are there no people in the streets? Or how Don's Bo can't hurt the Kraang yet Mikey's fists can and than Don's Bo can magically harm the Kraang in later episodes. Or why when the Kraang takes over Metalhead do the Turtles act mentally retarded and don't try hitting it?

[BabyTurtles]

I don't know I think he brought up some good points. Like how do the Turtles have a TV yet never heard of pizza? Or why are there no people in the streets? Or how Don's Bo can't hurt the Kraang yet Mikey's fists can and than Don's Bo can magically harm the Kraang in later episodes. Or why when the Kraang takes over Metalhead do the Turtles act mentally retarded and don't try hitting it?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2wucmpacC1qii6tmo1_500.gif

I dunno.....I don't really notice that stuff....

(also...I thought the boys did try hitting Metalhead...but he was too dense....literally...and just brushed it off and hit them back. Donnie took over later)

and we already know why there aren't alot of people on the streets....budget remember? Ciro talked about this......it's not what he wants either...but he can't help it. He's doing the best with what he's got.

[Bauer536]

Maybe it's the writers, but not everything needs explanation. I'm not going to question why Don couldn't hit a Kraang here, but he could here. If I were to answer it, I'd say it's because of training.

Also, certain things are done just for entertainment. It's for kids. They'll find it funny how the turtles discover pizza. Besides, use your imagination. Maybe they never watch commercials.:twink: Plus, I'm betting the OT and 2k3 had their share of inconsistencies, as well. Sometimes, I don't think everyone knows because they forgot about them, or they refuse to mention them. I don't know.

And come on. If you guys think that the turtles are really that dumb or rude, I don't know what show you're watching. So, they're reckless. Big deal. I've seen that happen on shows like Smallville. But just because Clark acts like an ass in one episode doesn't make him an ass for the whole season. Same thing with the turtles. So, Raph can be a bit mean-spirited, but other times, he's doing things because he cares for his family. It's not all or nothing.

Then again, I guess I'm taking it literally. Still, you shouldn't take it too seriously. The turtles aren't that irresponsible. They're not that rude. I've seen worse. They're heroes for God's sake. They stand for something. So what if they've done stupid things? You know why? It's not just because they're teenagers, but writers in any TV show need to provide conflict. Sometimes, it is arrogance, emotions, or stupidity that drives the story.

And for the millionth time. Who cares about how many people are on the streets at night? God only knows they could be sleeping. But, you heard Ciro say why there aren't many. My God.:trolleye:

I used to enjoy coming here, but I feel so sorry I brought this up. My threads never get anywhere anyway.

You guys always have to find a problem with anything, especially if you like it. I'm not saying it's bad, but it makes me question whether you actually enjoy the product or not. That's confusing, especially if it's the internet. But I can't take this. Just someone lock this thread and end the ridiculous speculation and complaints. It's a freakin' gosh darn cartoon! Just accept it for what it is!:tmad:

[Bossa Nova]

You're the one who brought this up. Don't be upset when not everyone wants to agree with you.

[Bauer536]

You're the one who brought this up. Don't be upset when not everyone wants to agree with you.

I brought this up because of you guys. I was starting to doubt if the show was good all because of your nitpicks. I don't care if it's not what you thought it would be. I don't care if some things haven't been explained. I don't care how the turtles will look in the new movie. And, as a matter of fact, I don't care how much you get annoyed with Playmates just because they didn't paint a stupid LAWN GNOME!

I've agreed to disagree many times I came here, but I'm beginning to think you just don't let up. You may disagree with the points being said, but somehow, you'll find a problem. Well, face it. I'm okay with it human interaction. But here on the internet is crazy.

My friends are never on here when I want to talk them, so I get bored. Thanks to my boredom, I found the blogger. For a few days, he ruined my life until I realized he just didn't see it like most of us do. There's your answer.

If it wasn't for the cool things we've been getting for TMNT or communication with friends, I wouldn't be here. But look what's happened. This is just getting absolutely annoying.

[Keldor1578]

I brought this up because of you guys. I was starting to doubt if the show was good all because of your nitpicks. I don't care if it's not what you thought it would be. I don't care if some things haven't been explained. I don't care how the turtles will look in the new movie. And, as a matter of fact, I don't care how much you get annoyed with Playmates just because they didn't paint a stupid LAWN GNOME!

I've agreed to disagree many times I came here, but I'm beginning to think you just don't let up. You may disagree with the points being said, but somehow, you'll find a problem. Well, face it. I'm okay with it human interaction. But here on the internet is crazy.

My friends are never on here when I want to talk them, so I get bored. Thanks to my boredom, I found the blogger. For a few days, he ruined my life until I realized he just didn't see it like most of us do. There's your answer.

If it wasn't for the cool things we've been getting for TMNT or communication with friends, I wouldn't be here. But look what's happened. This is just getting absolutely annoying.

Get over it.

[Bauer536]

I'm sorry. Maybe I just need a break. Since I love this show, I'm having a hard time dealing with nitpicks and criticisms. I was never on a forum anyway when I was watching shows like Smallville or 24.

I came here during a time when I really liked the first and fourth films, and nothing much. I respected the purpose of the OT, but always had a hard time enjoying most of it. I wanted to love 2k3, but I could never get past the animation and voice acting. It bothered me. So, now with something I love, it's hard to take things that are someone else's opinions. It's okay to have your own thoughts, but I always feel others start to poison my mind and I don't think straight.

Anyways, I'm probably going to be off for awhile.

[Konchadunga]

I, too, have been bothered at times by reading scathing reviews of something I really like, but it doesn't usually waver my own opinions. Often, it makes me feel intellectually superior to the writer.

[BubblyShell22]

Bauer, not everyone is going to like what you like. I remember feeling the same way when someone would say they didn't like a certain Disney movie and I would get horribly upset about it and try to understand why they didn't like it. But over the years, I've grown up and realized that not everyone is going to like the same thing. If we did, what a boring world that would be. We don't have to agree with what this blogger said, but I believe that he has the right to feel the way he does, and that we shouldn't try to change his mind or how he feels about this show. Just let people have their opinions about it and just enjoy the show yourself for what it is. Don't let what other people say get you down or make you upset.

[Powder]

Bauer is an EDP, it's impossible to reason with him.

[BabyTurtles]

Bauer is an EDP, it's impossible to reason with him.

if you can't say something helpful or nice when people are upset....just don't say anything at all.

[Konchadunga]

But over the years, I've grown up and realized that not everyone is going to like the same thing. If we did, what a boring world that would be.

I'm not sure I agree. I guess I do in the extreme sense, but growing up as a lonely autistic child, into a lonely autistic man, whose interests are often too specific compared to the more general interests of the masses, I've come to see individualism as kind of overrated. I used to embrace it, but eventually loneliness took its toll on my mood, and I wish people could be more alike in some ways. I think a lot of us would have more friends if we were into the same things. In fact, I think one of the reasons I like TMNT so much is that it, much like Nintendo, reminds me of a time when our pop culture was all-pervasive but less diverse, and everyone could be on the same page.

[Powder]

if you can't say something helpful or nice when people are upset....just don't say anything at all.

I'm gonna go ahead and put you on ignore. I'm not going to adopt your sunshine & sparkles mentality no matter how many times you try, & it's clear you won't stop anytime soon.

[BabyTurtles]

I'm gonna go ahead and put you on ignore. I'm not going to adopt your sunshine & sparkles mentality no matter how many times you try, & it's clear you won't stop anytime soon.

sorry my sunshine and sparkles annoy you. :ohwell:

[Cure]

Over preachy-ness can be as annoying as the worst asshole.

[NinjaMan]

Whores doing some whiny bitching on Tumblr. That has NEVER happened before.

Why is he a whore?

[CyberCubed]

This thread REALLY needs to be locked.

[BabyTurtles]

Over preachy-ness can be as annoying as the worst asshole.

I'm not normally over preachy, I'm just tired of people being rude here........I mean what's the gain from being a jerk? it just makes people seem immature.

can't we all debate here without having to say a mean jab at someone??

I know it's possible......I've been to other blogs that are very civil.

I mean- we all like TMNT right? can't we just be friends.....?.....no?

[Pterobat]

Well, you know how they say, "Haters gonna hate"?

Of course that means to shrug off opinions we don't like, but take it another way: people are always going to be critical of stuff. That's just the way it works.

I assume with this user, and with most people, that they gave Nick TMNT its fair shot, didn't like it, wanted to talk about it, and people are going to talk back. No harm, no foul.

The only thing I have a problem with, personally, is the going on and on and on about how much the Turtles are jerks to each other. I can't stand that type of reviewing, where hands are wrung about the protagonists not being perfect little angels. It happened with Korra, and it just sounds like Helen Lovejoy going nuts on things.

Also, I don't have a problem with the poster adapting 2k3 as the gold standard at some points. Sure, it's not the original TMNT 'verse, but fans always make one version into their ideal take on a franchise, and it colours whatever else they talk about.

[Xav]

Wow it seems like the original poster has discovered this thread.
http://gokaigato.tumblr.com/post/72156074135/lol-wow
http://gokaigato.tumblr.com/post/72160961892/yes-just-yes
http://gokaigato.tumblr.com/post/72169877048/i-couldnt-help-it-some-of-those-responses-were

[CyberCubed]

The guy gloating over the responses here is quite sad. Hopefully he reads my post here where I call him a scumbag so he blogs it so his tumblr followers can see. He reminds me of those asinine people from youtube and deviantart too. I bet he has accounts over there as well.

[BabyTurtles]

The guy gloating over the responses here is quite sad. Hopefully he reads my post here where I call him a scumbag so he blogs it so his tumblr followers can see. He reminds me of those asinine people from youtube and deviantart too. I bet he has accounts over there as well.

just let him gloat.....

we know we like TMNT 2012~ and that's all that matters :) let's just continue to enjoy the show.

[Powder]

The guy gloating over the responses here is quite sad.

It's pretty funny, to say the least. That's Tumblr for ya.

[Candy Kappa]

This thread really made him feel all big and edgy, good for him.

[Ashwolf]

I'm just tired of people being rude here........I mean what's the gain from being a jerk? it just makes people seem immature.

can't we all debate here without having to say a mean jab at someone??

I know it's possible......I've been to other blogs that are very civil.

I mean- we all like TMNT right? can't we just be friends.....?.....no?

im w/ u on that

[Candy Kappa]

I'm not normally over preachy, I'm just tired of people being rude here........I mean what's the gain from being a jerk? it just makes people seem immature.

can't we all debate here without having to say a mean jab at someone??

I know it's possible......I've been to other blogs that are very civil.

I mean- we all like TMNT right? can't we just be friends.....?.....no?

But, we're a bunch of cynical jack wagons, if we don't get some snark release we'll all burst into gremlins.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm not sure I agree. I guess I do in the extreme sense, but growing up as a lonely autistic child, into a lonely autistic man, whose interests are often too specific compared to the more general interests of the masses, I've come to see individualism as kind of overrated. I used to embrace it, but eventually loneliness took its toll on my mood, and I wish people could be more alike in some ways. I think a lot of us would have more friends if we were into the same things. In fact, I think one of the reasons I like TMNT so much is that it, much like Nintendo, reminds me of a time when our pop culture was all-pervasive but less diverse, and everyone could be on the same page.

Well, what I mean is, if everyone in the world was the same and liked the same things, we'd all be carbon copies of each other, and that would be boring. Hey, I'm all for others liking the same things I do, but if people don't, that's okay. As long as they don't flame me for liking a certain thing, I'm fine with their opinion and respect what they have to say. I can see your perspective on it though and understand where you're coming from. I guess I'm just the type to be proud to be an individual and to do my own thing.

[Bauer536]

You know. It's okay to have one's opinions, but to act like a jackass to us is cruel.

I only wanted to post this to show you guys, not so HE could see it.

But I guess that shows that what happens on the internet, stays on the internet.

If you ever find him, tell him he can whine and bitch, but he has nobody. He's a jerk for treating us like this. He was never to find this thread in the first place. It's my fault anyway. Maybe this wouldn't happen if I didn't post this crap.

Tell this guy to back off.

You know what. This place used to be fun, but it's becoming a chore. I'm done. I'm done here.

[ticktack]

Can't we let the bash out even in this thread?

[Cure]

At least this thread made SOMEONE happy.


You know what. This place used to be fun, but it's becoming a chore. I'm done. I'm done here.

Make that two someones.

[Xav]

You know. It's okay to have one's opinions, but to act like a jackass to us is cruel.

I only wanted to post this to show you guys, not so HE could see it.

But I guess that shows that what happens on the internet, stays on the internet.

If you ever find him, tell him he can whine and bitch, but he has nobody. He's a jerk for treating us like this. He was never to find this thread in the first place. It's my fault anyway. Maybe this wouldn't happen if I didn't post this crap.

Tell this guy to back off.What are you talking about? You posting a link to some guy bashing the show on Tumblr, and than people on this thread starting bashing the blogger, and than he starting mocking this thread, and now you want us to tell him off? Dude, you're the one who started the thread in the first place.

[Konchadunga]

Everyone has something popular that they hate. Some have many things. However, I think most of us grew out of obsessing about what they hate a long time ago. If you find yourself constantly watching something you hate just to dig up more dirt on it, you have a twisted set of tastes, at the very least. Why not watch things you like?

Though, if this guy thinks it's acceptable to gloat about offending us, why not make a blog rebutting his rants? I don't care enough to do so, but if anyone here is truly bothered, that's what I'd recommend.

[turtletoons81]

Honestly if he want's to gloat over us,he can gloat all he want's,it doesn't matter if he prefers the 2k3 show or any other version infact all it matter's if he's opinions mean's anything to people that's all.but this isn't the case well to me anyways.

[snake]

This thread REALLY needs to be locked.

I was just about to post that! This guy doesn't like the show, GET OVER IT. Any popular show has some people who don't like it. It shouldn't change your view on the show or anything, just continue watching it, or if it does change your opinion of the show then don't watch it!

[BubblyShell22]

Like Xav said, Bauer, you're the one who posted this whole thing. If the guy noticed the thread and became offended by what some people have said, then so what? I'm not going to leave this place just because of some blogger. If you do, then you're just too sensitive about these types of things and really need to stop looking for them in the first place.

[Powder]

You know. It's okay to have one's opinions, but to act like a jackass to us is cruel.

I only wanted to post this to show you guys, not so HE could see it.

But I guess that shows that what happens on the internet, stays on the internet.

If you ever find him, tell him he can whine and bitch, but he has nobody. He's a jerk for treating us like this. He was never to find this thread in the first place. It's my fault anyway. Maybe this wouldn't happen if I didn't post this crap.

Tell this guy to back off.

You know what. This place used to be fun, but it's becoming a chore. I'm done. I'm done here.

You are so troubled. Wow. This board ain't private, he's got just as much a right to talk smack as we do, so what? & hell, you started the thread & we insulted him. He's not a jerk for returning the favor. & not for nothin' but I don't think anybody is genuinely upset about the matter except you, mang. For better or worse we're all just a little too passionate for our own good, and sometimes that means slinging shots at randoms on the internet. Woooooo. Also, didn't you resolve to leave this site once or twice before?

http://i43.tinypic.com/2d194cw.gif

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

how Don's Bo can't hurt the Kraang yet Mikey's fists can and than Don's Bo can magically harm the Kraang in later episodes.

Erm... Kraang budget cuts or financal problems?

[Konchadunga]

I'm gonna go ahead and put you on ignore. I'm not going to adopt your sunshine & sparkles mentality no matter how many times you try, & it's clear you won't stop anytime soon.

You don't have to adopt such a mentality, but I must say, you could stand to have a personality that didn't consist mainly of criticizing other users.

And I say this as somebody who tends to share your opinions.

[Coola Yagami]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But people have to stop acting like this show or that show is perfect. This show is FAR from perfect and has a LOT of flaws. But I still love the show and can't wait for the new episodes.

[BubblyShell22]

Mark, you hit the nail on the head. The show does have flaws and not everyone has to like it or feel that it's perfect. Live and let live, okay?

[Refractive Reflections]

Despite my critical assessment of the Nick show's amnestic subplots and arcs, the Leo "immaturity" doesn't bother me. Yes it is frustrating that it seems the most apparent connection between Leo and Karai is the crush aspect, but maybe something could develop deeper (in a platonic manner and not romantic) as Karai discovers about her true identity. ...But that's stretching my hopes though. :ohwell:

The show has shown the potential for good storywriting with The Gauntlet, Follow The Leader, and Baxter's Gambit but the show consistently regresses the characters back to superficial levels with Mikey's stupidity, overemphasizing Donnie's crush on April at the expense of April not developing deeper relationships with the other Turtles, and undermining previously intense dramatic moments for the characters which the viewer would think the characters would remember, as examples.

The reason for my ranting :lol: on the amnesic subplots and arcs of this show is that they can be used to show a more organic path of seeing the Turtles and April (character flaws and all) grow into the characters we are more familiar with, but it becomes aggravating with the neglectful tone toward these subplots and arcs, thus making the characters more intolerable in not remembering the past. Viewers are initially attracted to the show because of its action scenes and new CGI imagery, but they will only stick with the show (and not be enticed by another action/adventure cartoon) if they can develop an attachment to the characters if they are depicted well which, at this moment of the show's run, is becoming a growing concern. While I understand that there are different writers for each episode, for me at least, I feel that there is a lack of supervision in making these episodes cohesive and seamless.

While there are some points such as the lack of people on the street, having not heard of pizza from TV, and a few of the fight scenes, which is questionable, to me it's not as concerning compared to what I mentioned above when dealing with characterization and the plots.

I think the reason for such heated criticism is because of an expectation level that we as TMNT fans have and were accustomed to with the OT and 2K3. It's a natural human tendency for people to compare things, especially similar things like a reinvented premise. If we really didn't care about the Nick series or TMNT in general, we (including even that tumblr user) would be indifferent to the Nick show and not waste time on reviewing.

[drgon78]

Well as far as we know Leo is the only turtle that knows Karai is Splinter's daughter. Though I doubt he would want to still have a crush on someone that not only wants his master(and the turtles) dead but is also his sister.

[Konchadunga]

Despite my critical assessment of the Nick show's amnestic subplots and arcs, the Leo "immaturity" doesn't bother me. Yes it is frustrating that it seems the most apparent connection between Leo and Karai is the crush aspect, but maybe something could develop deeper (in a platonic manner and not romantic) as Karai discovers about her true identity. ...But that's stretching my hopes though. :ohwell:

The show has shown the potential for good storywriting with The Gauntlet, Follow The Leader, and Baxter's Gambit but the show consistently regresses the characters back to superficial levels with Mikey's stupidity, overemphasizing Donnie's crush on April at the expense of April not developing deeper relationships with the other Turtles, and undermining previously intense dramatic moments for the characters which the viewer would think the characters would remember, as examples.

The reason for my ranting :lol: on the amnesic subplots and arcs of this show is that they can be used to show a more organic path of seeing the Turtles and April (character flaws and all) grow into the characters we are more familiar with, but it becomes aggravating with the neglectful tone toward these subplots and arcs, thus making the characters more intolerable in not remembering the past. Viewers are initially attracted to the show because of its action scenes and new CGI imagery, but they will only stick with the show (and not be enticed by another action/adventure cartoon) if they can develop an attachment to the characters if they are depicted well which, at this moment of the show's run, is becoming a growing concern. While I understand that there are different writers for each episode, for me at least, I feel that there is a lack of supervision in making these episodes cohesive and seamless.

While there are some points such as the lack of people on the street, having not heard of pizza from TV, and a few of the fight scenes, which is questionable, to me it's not as concerning compared to what I mentioned above when dealing with characterization and the plots.

I think the reason for such heated criticism is because of an expectation level that we as TMNT fans have and were accustomed to with the OT and 2K3. It's a natural human tendency for people to compare things, especially similar things like a reinvented premise. If we really didn't care about the Nick series or TMNT in general, we (including even that tumblr user) would be indifferent to the Nick show and not waste time on reviewing.

All that may be valid, but it can't justify that blog, because the 2003 show it holds up on a pedestal had plenty of Aesop amnesia, too. 2003 Mikey and Karai were particularly horrible in that regard; prolonging key issues in the plot that should have been dropped so they could move on. Also, so far, the bit with Leo and Karai has been developed beyond the point of a crush; hostility is now the dominant dynamic--not to mention that it's hypocritical to attack the crush thing to begin with, since his precious 2003 show canonized that dynamic.

[Refractive Reflections]

All that may be valid, but it can't justify that blog, because the 2003 show it holds up on a pedestal had plenty of Aesop amnesia, too. 2003 Mikey and Karai were particularly horrible in that regard; prolonging key issues in the plot that should have been dropped so they could move on. Also, so far, the bit with Leo and Karai has been developed beyond the point of a crush; hostility is now the dominant dynamic--not to mention that it's hypocritical to attack the crush thing to begin with, since his precious 2003 show canonized that dynamic.

That is true that hostility is now the dominant dynamic, but I guess I was looking at it from what the established bonding element between them before Karai reinforced the inevitable feud between her family and Leo's.

As for the blog, :lol:, well... I think the spiteful tone is more or less revealing the blogger's intense disappointment considering how he/she is holding 2K3 on a pedestal rather than just "hating". ...But it's not like this blogger wanted a serious and civil discussion about it in the first place though, :lol:.

[Xav]

Also, so far, the bit with Leo and Karai has been developed beyond the point of a crush; hostility is now the dominant dynamic--not to mention that it's hypocritical to attack the crush thing to begin with, since his precious 2003 show canonized that dynamic.No it didn't. Leo didn't have a crush on Karai in the 2003 show.

[Konchadunga]

Not as overtly, but it was certainly suspected by a lot of people who watched it; just like Don having a crush on April. Therefor, giving many fans of the 2003 show what they wanted isn't necessarily subverting its example. Plus, as I said, 2003 Karai is nothing special. Frankly, she was a brown-nosing bitch who never seemed to develop permanently from that point. I like how with this Karai, she seems to have a sense of self, and her own aspirations; not necessarily good but different from Shredder's.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

That's the internet, my friend. Of course, they are going to ship characters with the closest relationships. In 2k3, Leo treats Karai as an ally because of her own beliefs and her sense of honor which are no different from his. And after the City of War arc, Karai has earned his trust until the season 3 finale. Don and April both share an appreciation for science. They often look into anything technical and explore what makes things tick. They more so share a brother-sister bond than anything. This can also be seen in the 2007 movie. That being said, not making 2k12 April a person that has an interest in science was a missed opportunity on their part.

[BabyTurtles]

That being said, not making 2k12 April a person that has an interest in science was a missed opportunity on their part.

that could have been cool......it would have also made the whole Donnie and April friendship make more sense...

[Konchadunga]

I'm going to slightly disagree with you; slightly because I do wish they gave 2012 April some interest, beyond doing the right thing and getting through the chaos alive, but disagree, because 2003 April was, in my opinion, too competent in too many things. She could fight well, which I loved about her, and it was extra badass that she was the only member of the team who only relied on her fists and feet, but that took training. Giving her a natural proficiency for science, to the same ridiculous levels as 2003 Don, along with some latent "jungle girl" proficiency manifested in an annoying bit of grandstanding and boasting, was pushing it too far towards Mary Sue territory. Not there, but in that direction.

Also, about romantic relationships developing out of Platonic ones: that's not just the Internet; that's life. Most couples started as that. Granted, they made it a lot more pronounced on Leo's part this time around, but again, that comes with the territory of making him more relatable.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I disagree with that a bit, but hey, it's your opinion.

[Konchadunga]

Which part; first or second paragraph?

[Shiro Kame]

That article felt completely biased and one-sided since it was mostly about how bad the new series sucked to them without ONE good point about the new series.