Censorship in Videogames

[Allio]

so with the controversy of the censorship in the game Monster Monpiece...I want to ask, where do you stand on censorship?

I for one find it idiotic and I don't think games should be censored at all, it takes away from the full experience of the game...why take less when you can have it all?

[Leo656]

I have no idea what game this is in reference too, but I'm entirely against censorship of any kind. Literally everything is offensive to someone, so who gets to set the criteria on what is and isn't "allowed" in games, movies, books, music, or society in general?

People have shown they can police themselves just fine. There's no reason why anything should be censored, ever. People all know things like breasts and swear words exist. Putting them into a game, book or movie doesn't automatically make it better, but it's silly to pretend an audience isn't there for it. Denying people what they want just because some people don't like it is silly in these supposedly more sophisticated times.

Let people who like Product A partake in it, and let others pick Product B if Product A offends them. A society that claims to support freedom of expression and freedom of choice has no business with censorship in any form.

Again, though, what game is this and what's the controversy?

[Peanut]

Are you f*cking kidding? Controversy? To who? People who should be locked up? It's a card game that involves anime girls stripping to level up.

Are you telling me the censored cards AREN'T going to end up being the ones that look like children? If you have any issue with the censorship of sexually charged depictions of prepubescent children; you're a human piece of sh*t.

This is about as controversial as the Bravely Default costume changes. It matters to no one except disgusting, lonely, pathetic nerds.

[The Stryker]

If the censorship comes over stuff that is completely creepy and awful I'm cool with it.

Bravely Default being the current example. Sexing up 15 year olds ain't no good.

[Leo656]

That is pretty bizarre. Doesn't sound like something that the general public would ask for at all. Stuff like that should have its own niche marketplace to cater to its niche audience. Just because there is technically a market for anything doesn't mean all things should be available or marketed in the same place. Things can be available to those who do want them, but kept where they belong.

I'm always surprised and forced to shake my head at some of the types of games that are out there, but since I'll never encounter them I care less that they exist. People are gonna do what they want; some things should definitely be kept to oneself. I can't imagine anyone going to a store and actively asking for this kind of thing.

[Peanut]

You honestly think this kind of sh*t should be "available to those who do want them" as long as it's kept where it "belongs"? You can't stop pedos from being into kids, so just make sure it's a niche market, out of the way of other stuff? Really? Or...you know...maybe not have a market for weird games that sexualize children? Maybe stomp it out completely?

As far as I'm concerned anyone who complains about this sh*t should be put on a watch list.

[Leo656]

People are going to do whatever they want, even if it's immoral or even illegal. Telling them it's unethical doesn't seem to stop them, since they apparently do it anyway. Compartmentalizing is different from censorship, though. As long as people keep their sh*t away from me so I can at least pretend it isn't there, I don't have to pay attention to it. Lots of things exist in the world that technically shouldn't. It's a bummer, but telling people "you can't/shouldn't" apparently doesn't work. Be nice if it did. The whole world would be a better place, and things would be so much easier.

But it definitely wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on the people on both the "supply" and "demand" side, in cases like this. If for no other reason than to make sure they never run for office or anything.

[CyberCubed]

I always wondered why Japan was so into lolicon and underage anime girls. I try to avoid this stuff but it winds up coming up in the various videogames and anime I come across that I have no choice.

Why do they sexualize 12 year old girls? It never made any sense to me.

[Ninjinister]

" Censorship in video game "

Just the one?

Also why did you start this topic without elaborating on what this thing's all about. I've never heard of Monster Monpiece and I'm pretty sure a lot of others haven't either.

[Leo656]

Yeah I misread the title and thought it was about censorship in video games in general. I never heard of whatever game we're talking about.

"Ick Factor" or no, if the content doesn't actively break any laws there's literally nothing anyone can do about it. People obviously willed it into existence; all anyone who's against it can do is stay away from it. Something like this seems so niche and obscure, anyway.

[Allio]

You know the thing is, Idea factory knows that this game has a very niche market over here in america; and they know this censorship will kill the sells of their intended audience...but with such a niche company as theirs, they don't want to take risks...at this point they are probably hoping to break even.

My one gripe is, if you are going to cut something out, why not make it worth our time

take Tatsunoko vs Capcom...they cut out one character to an already semi small roster...but they gave us 5 characters in it's place in the states

So why not give us something in return, we can't have 40 cards? okay, fine, do that, but give us new card art in return

take for example some of the card art wasn't censored because they looked like children, it was just the art was too extreme...alright fine, just commission some new art that is sexy, but not to the extreme


Children too young lookin? fine, cut those out...heck even better idea, give us some "Moe" images of those girls...That vampire girl wearing too little of clothing...fine replace it with a image of said vampire girl in a yukata smiling at the character all "Onii~chan" (though it would be Onee~chan as you are playing as a girl) you see her teeth with a little "gleem" on her fang - I'd buy the game in a heart beat if the game had "My little moster-sister can't be this cute" art work

basically the issue to me in the end this is like day 1 dlc to a game that should be in the game, but without the dlc


" Censorship in video game "

Just the one?

Also why did you start this topic without elaborating on what this thing's all about. I've never heard of Monster Monpiece and I'm pretty sure a lot of others haven't either.

Yeah I misread the title and thought it was about censorship in video games in general. I never heard of whatever game we're talking about.

"Ick Factor" or no, if the content doesn't actively break any laws there's literally nothing anyone can do about it. People obviously willed it into existence; all anyone who's against it can do is stay away from it. Something like this seems so niche and obscure, anyway.



Ooops, meant to put an 's'

" Censorship in video game "

Just the one?

Also why did you start this topic without elaborating on what this thing's all about. I've never heard of Monster Monpiece and I'm pretty sure a lot of others haven't either.

Are you f*cking kidding? Controversy? To who? People who should be locked up? It's a card game that involves anime girls stripping to level up.

Are you telling me the censored cards AREN'T going to end up being the ones that look like children? If you have any issue with the censorship of sexually charged depictions of prepubescent children; you're a human piece of sh*t.

This is about as controversial as the Bravely Default costume changes. It matters to no one except disgusting, lonely, pathetic nerds.

You're exaggerating alot over non-existent creatures set in a fictional world

these characters are like furry girls like Renamon and Krystal

sure we may like it in a "We will never get our hands on them" in an illusion kind of way

but do you think most of those people are going to be into in the real world? Hell no, most of these people will be running away just like any sane person

I mean it is the same way as a person that kills in videogames


As for Bravely Default...They age up the character, but yet they still add clothing...why? it should be 1 or the other...but again, Nintendo has been weird about their censorship

[AT-Man]

I'm completely against censorship in video games, but no developer should ever cater to audience that wants to see sexualized underaged people.

[Memphis]

I'm not a fan of censoring, but I do see why it's done. Bravely Default and Fire Emblem Awakening are good examples, with scenes with the girls in skimpy clothes. In Japan it's not seen as sexual. It's usually used to show innocence, whereas in America stuff like that is strictly sexual. I blame the prudes.

[AT-Man]

I blame Germany, because of them I cannot buy the European version of South Park: Stick of Truth. No one else should buy it either, total anti-support!

[TMNT_Guy]

I always wondered why Japan was so into lolicon and underage anime girls.

The reason isn't so much because their sexually into young girls, but more because their trying to relive their youth.

You see, for the Japanese, adult romance is practically nonexistent. The moment they finish school they quickly get a job with very little free time. So, for the Japanese, these dating sims and card collectors are a way for them to experience a romantic relashionship again. This is why most anime and manga is about teenage boys and girls in high school, because the moment they grow up and graduate any form of freedom and adventure they used to have is over.

Or...you know...maybe not have a market for weird games that sexualize children? Maybe stomp it out completely?
The thing, that’s a very slippery slope. The moment you say this video game shouldn't exist, you create an opening to justify banning any video game that’s not Pong.

What about the Grand Theft Auto series? Why is that murder and carjacking simulator perfectly fine to exist, yet this dating simulator where a teenage boy dates a few teenage monster girls horrible? People who justify violent games always say "Their not real people I'm killing, so it's ok" but how is that any different to this game? These aren’t real girls who are being "sexualized", in fact in this game you’re not even dating humans, it's about dating Monster High-like girls. Why should the Call of Duty series exist? All it does is promote war and violence...

Do you see what I mean? Now don't get me wrong, this doesn’t mean I support the game, I'm just saying that you can't have freedom of speech without eventually hearing something you don't like. The moment you take a form of media away from one group because you think it's immoral, you create an opportunity for something you like to be taken away because some other group thinks it's immoral.

[Peanut]

No, I don't see what you mean. I'm talking about characters that are created to look like 9 year olds and then sexualized. That doesn't fit into your awful argument. I don't give a f*ck what the premise behind it is. It's pedophilia and it's f*cked up. Nowhere did I say this specific game shouldn't exist. I said games that include CHILDREN being used as SEX OBJECTS shouldn't exist. The localization of this game solves that problem by removing semi-nude CHILDREN. If you disagree with this you're a piece of sh*t.

I should probably stop trying to argue this with people who are very clearly creeps.

[TMNT_Guy]

]that are created to look like 9 year olds
I just looked at the official website for the game, and you’re right. I had no idea that some of the characters in that game were presented as being that young, geez. The Japanese and their teenage girls is one thing, but this is a completely different matter.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Not sure how this is any different than an anime like, say, Negima. About an 11 year-old boy teaching a class full of 15 year-old girls who ALL end up being his "magical partners" (via a kiss!) to use magic to fight monsters, demons, and other stuff. And every time the kids sneezes, some girl looses her panties.... Weird, but in Japan this stuff is seen as perfectly acceptable and even normal. They play with it as tongue-in-cheek humor, which is how it should be. We all know that young girls in skimpy attire as "sex objects" is "wrong" (At least by modern Western standards- elsewhere, not so much. Some African and Middle-Eastern countries still MARRY girls as young as 10! And it's usually to men 10 years or more their senior- but WE like to pretend things like that don't happen anymore....) BUT that's our own biased cultural morality at work.

My view is that censorship is nearly always wrong, for that very reason. Whose standards are we going by? Western "civilized" society? In many ways, it's more backward than the countries where this kind of thing actually is considered "normal"! It's nothing more than a product of backward, patriarchal thinking by prudish men who even once went so far as to ban Christmas in one state back in the 1600's because it had pagan origins. One person's "sick" is another's acceptable. Censorship is just a way of saying "I don't like what you do, so you can't see/hear/own it". Which is wrong.

[Peanut]

No. Having or wanting sex from a child is not right. I don't give a SH*T how you want to phrase it, twist it, or justify it. Cultural differences, historical reasoning, don't care.

Anyone who says otherwise doesn't have children in their life and therefore can't put themselves in the shoes of someone who has feared for their children's well being, or in some terrible cases had their own kids sexually abused or assaulted. That, or they're absolute f*cking filth and need to be buried.

It's also culturally OK to have children working themselves to the point of death in some parts of the world. Is that alright? Child abuse, whether sexual, physical, mental or whatever, IS NOT RIGHT. There's NOTHING backwards about that line of thinking and if that makes me wrong, or a bad person, or a bigot or racist or culturally insensitive in any way, I can honestly say I welcome it.

[Candy Kappa]

Child brides are for one purpose only, to ensure the girl is still a virgin. Because in those countries many views women as property, a property that is worthless if not "intact".

It's quite an extreme to compare it to A cartoon like Negima.

[TMNT_Guy]

No. Having or wanting sex from a child is not right.
No one so far has said that it is. I think everyone here agrees that it's wrong, I'm glad that you hold your ethics and values so close and I respect you for it, but what everyone is saying, and what this topic is about, is why they don't like censorship.

I don't like censorship because theres no way to know where to draw the line. During the Night Trap controversey of 1993, Senator Joe Liebermann didn't just want to ban game like Night Trap and Mortal Kombat, he wanted to get rid of video game altogether, and almost succeded in this. This might sound rediculous to you and it may seem simple to some people on how far you should censor things, but not to others. Human beings always seem to jump from one extreme to the other.

I'm sure everyone has heard this story, an elemenatary school issued a "Zero tolerence to weapons" policy in response to one of the many unforchanet school shootings. A kid had brought in a LEGO cop toy to show his friends at lunch...and was suspended. The reason? Because the 3-inch cop toy held a gun. Instead of talking to the boy about like they should have or simply takeing the toy away from him, they suspended him for, I think, three weeks.

Thats my reason at least, you can agree or disagree with it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

No. Having or wanting sex from a child is not right. I don't give a SH*T how you want to phrase it, twist it, or justify it. Cultural differences, historical reasoning, don't care.

Anyone who says otherwise doesn't have children in their life and therefore can't put themselves in the shoes of someone who has feared for their children's well being, or in some terrible cases had their own kids sexually abused or assaulted. That, or they're absolute f*cking filth and need to be buried.

It's also culturally OK to have children working themselves to the point of death in some parts of the world. Is that alright? Child abuse, whether sexual, physical, mental or whatever, IS NOT RIGHT. There's NOTHING backwards about that line of thinking and if that makes me wrong, or a bad person, or a bigot or racist or culturally insensitive in any way, I can honestly say I welcome it.


Ah, I see. So all those people in third-world nations whose values are different from ours and have been for centuries (and who DO have kids of their own) are wrong because they allow this to take place to THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Because according to OUR moral and ethical standards, it's abuse. To them, it's simply tradition and looking out for the interests of their family by doing what they believe is necessary for its continuation. Sure, that makes sense. Remember we are talking about people who are often below poverty-level, have little resources OTHER than their children, and live in cultures where children (especially girls) are seen as a valuable commodity to improve their family's situation.

What's WRONG with our society is not our views on children- it's the fact that we nearly always INSIST that the rest of the world live by the same rules and moral code. We are the most culturally elitist society in the world, as well as the most intrusively meddling. It's no wonder so many of those same nations hate us for trying to stick our collective noses into their affairs. I may not agree with a father in Afghanistan who yanks his 12 year-old daughter out of school to marry a twenty-year-old man so his family can continue to eat on the bride-price, but that doesn't mean I agree that we should censor media that is as often as not geared toward the standards of a society that reflects similar views. Much of the Japanese anime and manga does exactly that. In some parts of China, they still bind young girls' feet to keep them small and dainty (it's considered attractive) and it often causes painful foot problems later in life, but unless you're a part of that society, neither you nor I have any right to judge how those people live.

And for the record, I HAVE had a child, and though she lives elsewhere, I still care just as much about her welfare, and would hunt down and slowly flay alive anyone who dared to hurt her. I've also dealt with abuse myself, and I can tell you from that perspective ALONE that more often that not, the abuse you speak of comes from WITHIN ONE'S OWN FAMILY. Not an outsider a girl is given to in marriage where it is EXPECTED that she will be having sex (kind of have to in order to have kids) at some point. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." One of the FEW lines of the Bible I actually agree with.

Child brides are for one purpose only, to ensure the girl is still a virgin. Because in those countries many views women as property, a property that is worthless if not "intact".

It's quite an extreme to compare it to A cartoon like Negima.

So true. Many cultures- particularly those that still remain tribal or clannish in nature- still view wives as a form of wealth, and some even practice such horrific (to us) traditions of female circumcision, sewing the genitalia shut, and other such questionable things. Do I find it distasteful, harmful, and unethical? Yes. Would I censor content of a game based on that kind of culture just because I find it "offensive"? No. I would simply not watch or play it. That is all.

As for using Nagima, it was the first one that came to mind, as I happen to enjoy that particular anime. There are others far more extreme, of course, but I'm kind of picky with my anime-viewing.

[Turo602]

Are people seriously defending the abuse and degrading of children for media sakes? I'm all for graphic story telling... but sexualizing children? Really? You guys are ****in' sick.

[Cure]

grossness

Between this and your homophobia, you're an awful person. Get help.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Are people seriously defending the abuse and degrading of children for media sakes? I'm all for graphic story telling... but sexualizing children? Really? You guys are ****in' sick.

Never said I supported the practices themselves-read my posts again- but as for censoring something just because I find it "squicky"? Hell no. Unlike others, I can just ignore it in storytelling, games, and the like. If it ain't my cup'o tea, I just DON'T read/watch/play it!

Between this and your homophobia, you're an awful person. Get help.

You, sir, are a troll. I am neither. Good day to you. (And take your own advice, you self-righteous hypocrite!)

[Turo602]

Never said I supported the practices themselves-read my posts again- but as for censoring something just because I find it "squicky"? Hell no. Unlike others, I can just ignore it in storytelling, games, and the like. If it ain't my cup'o tea, I just DON'T read/watch/play it!

That's a f*ck ton of b*llshit. This isn't the promotion of gay marriage or some religious belief, this is wrong. You might as well be saying child pornography is okay as long as you're not watching it... Spare me the BS.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I wasn't even referring to child pornography and the like- I was talking about cultural practices in other countries that while WE may find them objectionable, are NOT the same as abuse. Marrying a young girl off in order for the rest of the family to survive (and which possibly betters HER situation as well by ensuring she has a provider) is nothing like a sick scumbag who takes photos of nude kids for his own perverse pleasure. They are two completely different things. And abuse usually occurs within the home or from a close relative- trust me, I should know. That is NOT the same thing as a girl in her early or mid teens getting married.

Medically speaking, foot-binding and female circumcision are horrible practices, but who are we to call it abuse when it's a cultural tradition that is considered important to the people who do it? Have you LOOKED at some of the body-alterations that are considered "normal" in our own society? Pretty extreme compared to more tribal practices like ritual scarring of boys. I'd even ask if you consider male circumcision "abuse" seeing how it's medically unnecessary, traumatic to the infant, and serves no real purpose other than a religious tradition that is utterly outdated. How are the other things any different? But we don't judge people for that, because it's part of their culture.

[Peanut]

You're so absolutely beyond f*cked that it's sad. Get help.

And TMNT_Guy, there's a clear f*cking divide between showing sexualized minors and not. Don't be insane. It's not the same thing as what you're talking about at all.

I'm so glad I'm on a phone and not at a computer, because there is some seriously unhinged sh*t being spouted in this thread.

[Jester]

I'm so glad I'm on a phone and not at a computer, because there is some seriously unhinged sh*t being spouted in this thread.
This threw me...what the difference? Either way you have to read people defending certain despicable things as long as they are cultural norms for someone somewhere.

[Cure]

I think he means he would type a much longer post if he was on his computer.

[Jester]

I think he means he would type a much longer post if he was on his computer.
Ok. Thanks. That makes sense.

[TMNT_Guy]

And TMNT_Guy, there's a clear f*cking divide
To you, me, and many others it's crystal clear...to others not so much. At the end of the day it all comes down to who's in charge of censoring this sort of thing and what they believe in.

As for defending the game because it's acceptable in another country, they would be right if this game was only avaible in Japan. But, this game is now beling released to a western audience, so of course it's going to be reviewed with our values and ethics.

I understand where your coming from, MsMarvelDuckie. I really like the anime Sailor Moon, I love the shows subjects of friendship, forgiveness, redemption and understanding one another…for others they can’t get past that Sailor Moon wears a short skirt. But I think this subject matter were dealing with is a bit more serious then the length of a skirt.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You're so absolutely beyond f*cked that it's sad. Get help.

I'm so glad I'm on a phone and not at a computer, because there is some seriously unhinged sh*t being spouted in this thread.


So we're equating an anime or video game with real-life child porn and other trash? Give me a break. Plenty of NORMAL people (myself included) enjoy those "shonen/shojo" animes, or video games with those types of characters, who would call bloody murder on real-world pedophiles and the like. Like others have said before me, censorship of media has no place in an enlightened civilized world, and yet plenty of you are eager to jump on a niche market for furries, "sexy" girl animes and other forms of entertainment simply because it's offensive TO YOU. Personally, as disgusting and wrong as real-life child abuse and porn, etc is (see above posts- I've spelled out my feelings on that subject already, very clearly), I'm not going to get bent out of shape over someone liking a FICTIONAL story about some kids prancing around in skimpy outfits when I know DARN well (I'd use the other word, but, hey- Mods.) that it's JUST FICTION. Unlike some folks, I'm very capable of separating the two. One is simply harmless fun (You know, because no one is actually hurting kids in these games or mangas or what-not, it's an expression of something we may not understand or agree with, but it's still just entertainment) and the other really IS a moral cesspool. BUUUT.....

There is also a difference between THAT, and what goes on in some Middle-Eastern country where more than half the population lives at or below what we consider poverty level, and marrying off children is often a necessity simply to ensure the survival of said children and their siblings. What WE often forget is that many of these cultures are based on different religious beliefs that feel it's acceptable, even EXPECTED to do so. Has anyone forgotten that even the Bible (I hate going to that book for examples, but...) tells of having multiple wives and such in the Old Testament? I guess no one ever bothered to ask how old some of those wives were? Because the average life-span was MUCH shorter, and girls were married much younger to ensure the largest number of children possible. In many places, that's still true.

The marriage age in many cultures is FAR younger than what WE view as "acceptable". Yet the world goes on, and we call it "abuse" without knowing ANYTHING about it. Yes, it might kind of suck for the kids, having to grow up and literally become adults so early and for such crappy reasons, but up until a couple hundred years ago, Europe and North America were not much different. In some places even here, it still isn't. We as a society have grown accustomed to the attitude of entitled moral superiority over those who still live under conditions we would consider deplorable, but put you in the same situation, and I'd bet none of you would last a week. And you'd be crying "abuse!" while meanwhile native girls and boys would simply shrug and obey their families' wishes for the good of the clan/tribe/whatever. Because it's how they live.

What's disgusting to me is how anyone can equate that under the same umbrella as a child-molester masquerading as a respectable citizen. How many have known family friends, relatives, or even their own close family members who turned out to be monsters in disguise? How many times have we heard news stories about children being sexually assaulted by their own parents in this country? Now, how often to we actually hear the same thing from those supposedly "backward" parts of the world? Think about it. Our own society has become so sick that we see a 12 year-old girl in India getting sent off to marry an older man, and automatically assume the worst of the situation, while completely ignoring the monsters lurking in our own neighborhoods. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Peanut]

I read nothing beyond the first sentence. People who like those kinds of games and anime aren't normal. Notice how weirdos like you are the only ones who complain about this kind of censorship. That's all that needs to be said. You're a creep and digging as hard as possible into bullsh*t excuses to defend this kind of thing is what people like you do. You stretch and stretch as hard as possible, because you know you're f*cked and your mental instability won't allow you to admit it.

If for ANY reason you can justify the existence of sexual depictions of children, real or imagined, seek help, or jump in the ocean.

[TMNT_Guy]

Yeah, I fail to understand what any of that has to do with this topic, MsMarvelDuckie. It seems you're accepting to all cultures except for the one you're a part of.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I read nothing beyond the first sentence. People who like those kinds of games and anime aren't normal. Notice how weirdos like you are the only ones who complain about this kind of censorship. That's all that needs to be said. You're a creep and digging as hard as possible into bullsh*t excuses to defend this kind of thing is what people like you do. You stretch and stretch as hard as possible, because you know you're f*cked and your mental instability won't allow you to admit it.

If for ANY reason you can justify the existence of sexual depictions of children, real or imagined, seek help, or jump in the ocean.

You read only ONE sentence, huh? Ah, I get it. You're a self-righteous ultra-conservative fanatic who feels justified in stamping out other peoples' freedoms of expression (First Amendment!) over anything you disagree with on the grounds of your supposed moral superiority. Got it.

So.... Not normal, huh? Married for 14 years, had one child, work a 40-hr week and pay my bills, enjoy going out to eat, movies, cuddling at home with my other half to watch TV, and read, write, listen to music, or play RPG's. Sounds pretty normal to me. I don't PERSONALLY watch those kinds of animes (Negima is about as risqué as I'll usually get, though I'm more partial to fare like FMA, Wolf's Reign, and Akira) but I'm not about to dictate what others enjoy, either. YOU, apparently, are. And if that makes me a weirdo, then so be it. I'm pretty sure my hubby would utterly disagree with you, however, and since we've been together for going on 17 years, he should know. I do NOT condone or approve of ANY kind of child porn/abuse (as said before, I've had personal experience with such- I doubt many of you can say the same) but I don't approve of censorship in any form, either. That doesn't make me sick- it means I'm SANE. I dislike ANYTHING that is taken to extremes, whether it is "moral superiority", or "perverse entertainment". Furries, anime lolicon, or things like that don't bother me. Real-life child porn DOES. See the difference? No? Maybe YOU are the one who needs help, if that's the case.

The REAL creeps are the ones who feel the need to push their own moral pseudo-religious views on the rest of the world just because they are uncomfortable with a small niche form of escapist entertainment that harms no one. THAT, sir, is the very definition of mentally unstable! Also, about jumping in the ocean- lead the way!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, I fail to understand what any of that has to do with this topic, MsMarvelDuckie. It seems you're accepting to all cultures except for the one you're a part of.


My point here is that we can't judge other peoples' ways of life, when there is so much wrong with our own society. And I DO accept all cultures, including my own- but I'm severely jaded and cynical when it comes to our own supposed moral "enlightenment". My motto is "live and let live". Or to put it another way, I live by the Wiccan Creed of "An it harm none, do as ye' will." Words I think more people should take to heart, to be honest.

[Jester]

But sexualizing children in media like this game normalizes it to a point that it COULD hurt someone. Some people will see it as a justification of their feelings/behavior.

[Powder]

Arguing with Duckie is a lost cause. Abandon thread.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But sexualizing children in media like this game normalizes it to a point that it COULD hurt someone. Some people will see it as a justification of their feelings/behavior.

You know, they had this same argument about games back in the 90's, only then it was violence. And those arguments don't hold water even now. I'm old enough to remember that mess, and it was just as ludicrous then as it is now. Video games and cartoons do NOT make people do those things. Being mentally unbalanced and having a faulty moral compass (compared to the rest of society- I won't go into what I think of morality in general here, it would fill a novel) DOES. I even remember the D&D scandal of the 80's, and THAT was just as stupid and inane.

Thinking that games and such make people do horrible things is like saying that watching the news or reading comics does so. It's a cop-out excuse. Simple as that. To this day, there have been NO cases of reported violence, suicide, or abuse that were definitively caused by ANY form of media. The people involved in all such supposed cases all had something in common- mental illness and/or drugs/alcohol. Check the history on the subject. No matter how the right-wing conservatives and watch-dog groups like to spin things, games and other media don't make ANYONE do ANYTHING. They just show what already exists in the world. That is all they do. Art imitates life, not the other way around.

[Turo602]

We can't judge the creeps, the psychopaths, the pedophiles, the drug addicts, and the like because other people in our society are just as wrong? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard...

I don't give two f*cks if a culture in dipsh*tville says it's okay to molests children, wrong is wrong and I'll despise them as much as I want to. There is no justification of the sexualization of children. Real or fake, you're an asshole if you get your jollies from that, regardless of culture. For a video game or any other media to promote such a thing is despicable. Instead of digging so deep into other people's cultures, how about you study psychology and tell us how exactly it's okay for children to be put in these situations or how it's normal for adults to view children in such a provocative way. Do you understand the ramifications of this sort of thinking or the trauma a child could suffer?

Honestly, you have to be real idiot to think that it's not our place to judge such acts and depictions just because a group lives that way... How else are we supposed to evolve as a species without making changes to the way we live and see things? We've gotten so far and are all the more better for it.

[Powder]

So apparently, Duckie feels that because it exists in the world, we should just allow pedo-attracting content to be accessed with ease and put into mainstream media.

Wowwwwwwww

[The Stryker]

I like how according to this person you have to be some sort of crazy right-wing religious nut to see something wrong with sexing up 9 year olds.

Never mind that no one here brought up religion or anything even close to that. Anything to take a swipe at the big evil mainstream machine man! Have sex with kids! Don't tread on me!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

We can't judge the creeps, the psychopaths, the pedophiles, the drug addicts, and the like because other people in our society are just as wrong? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard...

I don't give two f*cks if a culture in dipsh*tville says it's okay to molests children, wrong is wrong and I'll despise them as much as I want to. There is no justification of the sexualization of children. Real or fake, you're an asshole if you get your jollies from that, regardless of culture. For a video game or any other media to promote such a thing is despicable. Instead of digging so deep into other people's cultures, how about you study psychology and tell us how exactly it's okay for children to be put in these situations or how it's normal for adults to view children in such a provocative way. Do you understand the ramifications of this sort of thinking or the trauma a child could suffer?

Honestly, you have to be real idiot to think that it's not our place to judge such acts and depictions just because a group lives that way... How else are we supposed to evolve as a species without making changes to the way we live and see things? We've gotten so far and are all the more better for it.


Funny, I don't recall saying ANYTHING about molesting children being okay. And taking the time to objectively look at the subject of how children are treated both in our own society and elsewhere makes me an idiot? Oookay. :trolleye: How about you actually take the time to READ what I post? Nowhere did I say abuse was okay. As I mentioned before, early marriage is hardly the same thing as some guy getting his jollies off of photos of little kids or a priest or teacher molesting kids under their care. But heaven forbid a family arranges its daughter's marriage to a guy ten years older. :trolleye: If it was common practice for parents to arrange marriages in this country like it is in many places elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Are you saying it IS our place to judge how others live? That's just- sad. As a Wiccan, that actually kind of offends me, because that's exactly how mainstream religion views my faith, as something evil and unnatural, without ever taking time to understand what it truly is. You know, with reason and tolerance. Because that's what I'm talking about here. Apparently, using logic, reason, and objectivity to show how flawed the idea of censorship of games and such is, is tantamount to being a pedophile. WOW. Way to make assumptions. My faith in humanity's basic intelligence just plummeted.


So apparently, Duckie feels that because it exists in the world, we should just allow pedo-attracting content to be accessed with ease and put into mainstream media.

Wowwwwwwww

Nope, not what I'm saying at all. I simply don't feel that one can ever draw the line on censorship, so it should not exist at all. I never said anything about making it freely available, but if people want it, they are going to find it. I believe Leo656 said much the same thing on the first page- and I agree with him. I believe in freedom of expression. I'm a writer, so it's kind of important to me. I may not always agree with the content of such expression, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try to dictate what someone else can or can't see. It's that simple.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I like how according to this person you have to be some sort of crazy right-wing religious nut to see something wrong with sexing up 9 year olds.

Never mind that no one here brought up religion or anything even close to that. Anything to take a swipe at the big evil mainstream machine man! Have sex with kids! Don't tread on me!

Unfortunately, the ones who cry the loudest on this subject usually ARE religious conservatives. Don't you watch FOX News? Or ANY news? We're bombarded with that religious dogma masquerading as sociel morality every day. And it's disgusting how people would excuse the censorship that would in theory also include things like Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, and other perfectly innocent fare. Lolicon isn't the problem here- it's the attitude that if it makes someone uncomfortable, it must be evil and never see the light of day. It's a GAME, fer pity's sake! Good grief, the only reason I mentioned religion in the first place was to point out where most of that thinking comes from. It was the same way in the 80's and 90's- mostly religious conservative watch-dogs barking up the wrong tree about games causing kids to want to kill themselves or others. Now, apparently, these same games make kids (or others) want to become pedophiles? Yeah, THAT makes sense- NOT. :tconfuse::teek:

[discordiatookie]

So I read through this thread before googling the game. It's as simple as this: any game that has you rubbing the breasts and crotch of what looks like a child in order to make their clothes come off is f*cking sick. There's no grey areas there - it's wrong.

That said, the w*nking off the system is all kinds of hilarious...

[Turo602]

Funny, I don't recall saying ANYTHING about molesting children being okay. And taking the time to objectively look at the subject of how children are treated both in our own society and elsewhere makes me an idiot? Oookay. :trolleye: How about you actually take the time to READ what I post? Nowhere did I say abuse was okay. As I mentioned before, early marriage is hardly the same thing as some guy getting his jollies off of photos of little kids or a priest or teacher molesting kids under their care. But heaven forbid a family arranges its daughter's marriage to a guy ten years older. :trolleye:

People like you made me lose faith years ago... You're a complete dumbass if you failed to see the correlation between what I said and the nonsense you're spewing. You take interchangeable examples literally in order to create the illusion of a point. I've read enough of your hot garbage to know exactly what it is you're saying. I also like how naive you pretend to be. Do you honestly believe child marriages don't involve sexual intercourse? You can disguise child marriage all you like, it's still just as bad, freak.

If it was common practice for parents to arrange marriages in this country like it is in many places elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

WOW! You don't say? You'd probably be pregnant at 12 if that were the case... It's a good thing we have opportunities, wouldn't you agree?

Are you saying it IS our place to judge how others live? That's just- sad. As a Wiccan, that actually kind of offends me, because that's exactly how mainstream religion views my faith, as something evil and unnatural, without ever taking time to understand what it truly is. You know, with reason and tolerance. Because that's what I'm talking about here. Apparently, using logic, reason, and objectivity to show how flawed the idea of censorship of games and such is, is tantamount to being a pedophile. WOW. Way to make assumptions. My faith in humanity's basic intelligence just plummeted.

You want to use logic and objectivity? How's this? We all judge, get over yourself. Your little witchcraft beliefs hinder you. It limits your mind and makes you see the world in an inhumane way. I know this world isn't free. We're conditioned to believe many things, one of those things being the difference between right and wrong. The truth is, there's no such thing. It's just in our nature to behave a certain way. No matter how many standards are set, how many rules are given, no one can ever change our nature, just control it. I'm intelligent enough to see that because I'm not a savage. This isn't the dark ages, we have opportunity and live civilized. Without these limiting rules I wouldn't be as educated as I am today. I wouldn't have developed any morals or the common sense to understand that sexualizing children is wrong. Unlike you, who believes there's nothing wrong with the distribution of child molestation simulators as long as you don't buy it because it happens around the world... F*ck you.

[TMNT_Guy]

MsMarvelDuckie, you're obviously a thinker, so please hear me out.

A discussion is about hearing other people's opinions on various subjects and learning why they think what they believe. It is not about proving who is wrong and who is right, it's about understanding one another. I don't agree with everything you're saying, but at the very least I can try to understand why you believe what you do. All because someone reacted negatively to your posts doesn’t mean you should react the same to them. Acting sarcastic and rude will just push people away from you. Agree to disagree, your voice has been heard.

As a Wiccan, that actually kind of offends me,
Don't you understand that what you're saying also offends other people? Everything in this topic is just opinions; you cannot get angry at people for not thinking same as you when you equally do not think the same as them.

You have been saying nasty things about religion even though no one else has brought it up. You say that sexualizing children does not turn people into pedophiles, that these people were already emotionally disturbed to begin with. But the same goes for religion, the extremes who give it a bad name are also equally emotionally disturbed.

You're doing exactly what you're preaching against, judging other people for their beliefs, opinions, and culture.

My point here is that we can't judge other peoples' ways of life

No one is saying we need to go invade Japan because they have this kind of media, what their saying is that in our western society we do things differently. It doesn’t make us better or worse, just different, like the Japanese. As such, when something is released here from Japan we have the right to view it with our values and ethics, just as the Japanese have the right to view our media with their ethics and values. You see? Japan and America don't agree with each other, but we still live in peace with one another.

But, hey, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

[Candy Kappa]

If I remember correctly, the minimum sexual age by law in Japan is 13, in some areas. So by that definition the game even in its country of origin is not okay as you can fondle characters that don't only look like minors but actually are minors, of the age of 9?

Seems like a clear case to me, no need to drag out cultural differences and debate the horribleness of western cultures "demonizing" other cultures for abusing and mutilating children, which is a real issue. This game clearly is wrong on many levels.

[Katie]

Looked at the game. Disgusting. No place for that.


As a female the rest of the discussion offends me.

Females and child brides as commodities? Awful. MsMarvelDuckie you are a female and you should understand that women have more value than being possessions of a man. Do you think girls who are subjected to female genital modification are proud to go through that "for their culture"? Or that a 8 or 9 year old child bride can understand or consent to sex on their wedding night? ( you did point out that this is an expectation).

Sexual depictions of children? Someone stated the game involves rubbing breasts and crotches of young girls to get them to remove their clothes. I looked it up and saw that aspect too. That ok to you? Rubbing off kids to get them naked?

Only religious conservatives find it offensive? I'm very progressive and a staunch liberal and your comments accepting this offend me.

It's just a game? One that pedophiles can use to justify culturally their deranged mentality. A game where they are rewarded for disgusting behavior.

Being Wiccan has no matter in this. I am highly offended by your comments just accepting cultural suppression of women.

Do yourself a favor and leave this conversation.

[Peanut]

This has turned into a public stoning, which is OK because it's culturally acceptable elsewhere in the world.

[sdp]

Censorship is almost always a bad thing. The Bravely Default costume changes aren't any "better" than the originals anyway. The other game based on the descriptions I didn't even want to look it up so I'll refrain from talking about that. however Japanese culture is indeed different from ours and there's a big cultural barrier that makes it difficult to just judge. Do I think it's right for countries in the middle east to marry kids? Of course not, but it's not as simple as "our culture is right", Western culture has plenty of "iffy" things that are widely acceptable as well. Japanese culture is definitely weird and while I love aspects of it other aspects like what has been mentioned here is definitely off putting and alienates me. Debating culture something not easily had on internet forums, I have a class about culture this semester right now and my teacher is really good and makes you question what you know.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'd like to respond to all those who mistakenly think my aversion to censorship means I actually condone this game. (or anything of the sort) Let me assure you I DO NOT. My argument is simply THIS: NO person or group has the right to decide what anyone else can or can't see or enjoy. I don't approve of child-porn or anything of the kind (said it before, but no one is seeing that, obviously. Do I need to write it in bigger text?) and I NEVER said I APPROVE of child-brides- just that it exists and is a part of life in many parts of the world, which was just an EXAMPLE of cultural differences that we can neither understand nor have the right to condemn. And for those who think I say these things out of ignorance or naivite, WRONG. I'm WELL aware of how wrong child-abuse is- from personal experience. I could tell some horror stories that would have many of you up in arms at the things I've had happen TO ME. So get off the high horses, I know the difference.

Also, none of what I said about the religious aspects of this were meant to decry any religion as a whole. I'm not against it, per se- just the ridiculous and often extreme things done in its name. What sickens me is how some use it as an excuse to promote their own agendas over the rights and freedoms of everyone else. Censorship does NO ONE any good. If you don't like it, don't look at it. Simple. But don't try to say that because something is morally wrong, it shouldn't exist based on your own beliefs. That is ALSO wrong. I'll explain why below. My own beliefs simply mean I have a very different perspective on the issue than most people- I've seen first-hand what it's like to be on the side that is demonized. Been called Satanic and worse, by folks who really should know better, just because of ignorance and intolerance that in this day and age- in our supposed enlightened society- should be a thing of the past for everyone. But morality is the fist thing people always claim when censorship is mentioned, and it's almost always said in the same breath as religious values. They go hand-in-hand for most people.

Okay, so let's look at this from another angle then. I thought about it a bit, and realized that no one seems to see where I'm coming from with my views. First, let me say clearly I AM NOT DEFENDING THAT GAME. AT ALL. What I AM defending is the RIGHT of people to be able to play/see/read whatever floats their boat, EVEN IF I (or anyone else) find it personally offensive. My POINT in all this was to show how ridiculous it is to censor something based on our own world-view. Why? Because EVERYONE has different ideas of what is offensive, and what is dangerous smut and trash to one person- or group- is harmless and "normal" to someone else. That's all.

The REASON I am so virulently against censorship IN ANY FORM, is this: throughout history, some of the worst and most tragic examples of human ignorance and mindless hate have been committed through the use of censorship. Let me give a few examples. (Which is all I've been doing all along. I NEVER said I APPROVED of the practices I've mentioned before- only that they exist and are part of the way of life of various cultures very different from ours- and with different values. Never claimed to LIKE or CONDONE ANY of it.)

There are so many horrible examples of the stupidity fostered in the name of "saving" people from "dangerous" materials that it's hard to even know where to begin, but here goes:

Library of Alexandria: While parts of the larger library were burned accidentally during Julius Caesar's (and later Aurelius) attack on the city, in 391, the Serapeum Temple housing many of the scientific and pagan works at that time was destroyed when Emperor Theodosius made paganism illegal. The temples in Alexandria were sacked, and holy relics and books alike were burned. All in the name of one man's insistence on making such things illegal. And apparently, this was at the solicitation of Theophilus, the Bishop of Alexandria at that time. So because a ruler listened to a religious nut, an entire trove of knowledge, wisdom, and literature was lost. This after others had ALREADY seriously depleted the Great Library's stores BY ACCIDENT. Julius could perhaps be excused on grounds that he was trying to burn down the Egyptian fleet and docks, and the fire got out of control. But Theophilus and Theodosius did it purely out of censorship.

The Spanish Inquisition: Among its other many atrocities committed in the name of religion (like torture, killing cats, and confiscating property of suspected heretics) the Church also banned and even burned many books on mythology, pagan practices, "obscene poetry", and even medicine! Why? To stamp out heresy. In the Middle Ages and even later, medicine was mainly practiced by midwives, "wise women", and herbalists, many of whom wrote about their treatments. Because the Church authorities (after writing their OWN book on detecting and rooting out witchcraft and heresy) believed these to be pagan practices (which many were- they were handed down over generations) any books concerning them were confiscated and destroyed along with other materials the Church found objectionable. This was not just ONE event, but MANY, over a period of many years.

Germany: In the period from WWI until WWII, Germany was responsible for a number of book-burnings, primarily by the Nazis. Jewish, anti-Nazi, and "degenerate" books were burned, along with literary works. The German Army even burned the Leuven University Library TWICE! Once in WWI, and again in WWII. Talk about overkill. :trolleye:

And even more recently, McCarthy-era burnings of communist books, southern burnings of Beatles' albums, and even various cities in the US burning Harry Potter books, as well as burning of non-approved Bibles, music, and books in Canton North Carolina were all done because someone found them offensive. And let's not forget Huck Finn, banned in many schools for being "racist".

And just to show how utterly silly it is, in 1931, Lewis Carroll's Alice In Wonderland was banned in China's Hunan Province, for simply depicting anthropomorphized animals acting like humans. George Orwell's Animal Farm has been banned in multiple times and places since it was written, and his book 1984 was banned in the Soviet Union in 1950, and in the US and UK in the 1960's. Catholic leaders in Lebanon banned The Da Vinci Code in 2004(also banned in Samoa and the Solomon Islands), and Lebanon also banned The Diary of Anne Frank for portraying Jews, Isreal and Zionism favorably. Frankenstein was banned in South Africa in 1955 for "obscene or indecent material". Frankenstein??! REALLY?! :tmad:


And finally, there is one that occurred in my own hometown, that was not only a big deal there, but affected me personally. In 1994 (my Junior year) a parent of a student in The Colony HS in the Lewisville ISD tried- and succeeded- to ban Dracula from the curriculum of the school district's LEAP(Learning Enrichment Academic Program) classes. She read the INTRODUCTION to a specific printing of the book, written by someone else as his own opinions and observations regarding the book's content and meaning, and blew a gasket. She NEVER read the book itself. Interesting side-note to this is that the same year, the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula came out, and she apparently assumed that everything in it was also in the book. (It's not.) I was a student in said program, and we also read the book, as part of an on-going study for that year of "the dark side of man". We also read Frankenstein, Portrait of Dorian Grey, Jeckle and Hyde, many of the Grimm's Fairy Tales (and I DON'T mean the sweet, watered-down Disney versions- these were the original scary, "why do we tell these stories to kids?" versions.) and other stories of the dark side of human nature and the arch-types of good vs. evil. And these were all "classic" literature.

Long story short, because of ONE person flipping out over reading JUST the book's introduction (and the irony of this is that she was angry because they read it near Christmas, while our own class did so at Halloween) the book got booted from the core reading list and those who wished to read it for class after that had to get parental permission. For DRACULA, of all things. She claimed the program was brainwashing and corrupting the students, teaching them to be devil-worshippers, etc. It was utterly ridiculous, but she got it removed. And the kicker? The SAME woman also threw a fit over students in CHS Health class watching Flatliners in class that same year. Because, according to her, it promoted and condoned suicide. Uh, no, it doesn't. It's a movie about exploring what happens after death- by purposely "dying" and being brought back to tell what they saw. And these were high school students, well capable of forming their own opinions and knowing the difference between real-life and a movie. Or a book. Or, I dunno, heck, even a video game!

(And the epilogue to this is that the LEAP student body of all three high schools in the district ended up writing letters to city officials as well as the local newspaper in protest of her wanting to have it removed. We were unsuccessful in having the decision reversed.)

And now you all know EXACTLY why I will not EVER support censorship of ANY kind. The moment you open that door for ONE thing, you open it for almost anything else someone finds offensive. Because where does one draw the line? You can't. EVERYTHING is offensive to someone. (as LEO656 said earlier, I believe.)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Dort, wo man Computerspiele verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen!

[Peanut]

Give it up, clown.

[XERO]

This is reminding me of the "Cartman Joins NAMBLA" episode of South Park.

Bottom line, sh*t like this isn't cool or acceptable. It traumatizes the children that are being victimized and molds their minds into thinking it's the "normal" aspect of life. Then they potentially grow up committing the same thing on other kids. Or they end up making offensive games, like the one being talked about in this thread.

I'd be surprised if there was a section about it on GameFaqs or some sh*t. There's no means to defending or condoning that. It simply isn't right. Just because it's probably in the Bible doesn't mean it's justified. Have a conscience. There's a difference between supporting it and accepting it. It just sounds like you're leaning towards the latter.

[Papenbrook]

It seems that Square Enix has gotten the message, and has now made considerable progress with Bravely Default II.



https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/802/402/e80.jpg (https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1802402-bravely-default)




Let's hope that more companies follow suit.

The sexualization/objectification of youth should not continue.

[Sumac]

Oh no, bunch of pixels are sexy!! Thousands of women will die because of that!
Need to censor them fast or lil' Timmy will become serial rapist!!

But when women sell their bodies for money to be used as f4cktoys - its brave and stunning!! YAAAAAZZ QUEEEENNNZZZ!!

Honestly, some people want to make me vomit in disgust with their priorities.