The lack of normal human characters in the show, how do you feel?

[CyberCubed]

I've noticed a lot of people seem to be annoyed by the fact that every human eventually becomes a mutant, and how there are only very few normal human characters in the series anymore.

With the knowledge that Baxter will also eventually turn into a fly, that means only Casey, Karai, Shredder, Kurtzman, and the 3 Purple Dragons as the only normal humans left.

Is this something the show should concern itself with? Should human characters actually stay human?

[TigerClaw]

I've noticed a lot of people seem to be annoyed by the fact that every human eventually becomes a mutant, and how there are only very few normal human characters in the series anymore.

With the knowledge that Baxter will also eventually turn into a fly, that means only Casey, Karai, Shredder, Kurtzman, and the 3 Purple Dragons as the only normal humans left.

Is this something the show should concern itself with? Should human characters actually stay human?
You forgot Irma, The other normal human on the show, even though she appeared briefly in 1 episode this season, She will most likely show up in others.

[RaphAndDonnie]

I'm only ever annoyed when the humans have designs that I don't care for when they're mutated (like Rahzar's new look, which is decent to me but not as good as the Dogpound design) As long as the characters actually have character and aren't random mutants of the week *coughSpiderBytescough* and I like their design then I don't mind.

[Donatello19]

Shredder
Karai
April
Casey
Irma
Murakami
Kurtzman
Purple Dragons (3 of them!)

That's enough for me...humans aren't the focus of the show anyway, and I'm sure we'll get more soon anyway.

[Overlordofnobodies]

I dont really care at all. I have never thought much about humans in the tmnt world. To me there really is only four humans(Casey, April, Shredder and Karai) in the show.Maybe five if you count Hun but he is new. After that I dont really need any more.

It's sort of like Transformers. I there for the changing robots. Not the humans.

[CyberCubed]

I find this rather odd, since the TMNT franchise is usually filled with humans and only a few mutants. The Nick show and Archie are the only ones with more mutants than humans.

[BabyTurtles]

add one more human ally/villain and I'm good ^_^

[BubblyShell22]

I'm not worried about it as the show is mainly focused on the Turtles and the humans are only secondary for the most part.

[Eiko]

doesn't really bother me that much the only prob I had was Kirby changing would have been much better if he stayed human.

[plastroncafe]

I'm more curious about the follow-through consequences of this many mutants, than I am in the ratio of mutants to humans.

[CyberCubed]

The lack of humans really bothers me. Especially since everyone we meet becomes a mutant.

[TigerClaw]

The Turtles have yet to find all the missing canisters, So like it or not, There will be mutants out there. Next weeks episode even hints at mutant fungus.

[Bossa Nova]

I think it's absurd. I've never been a fan of excess mutants and while handful of them running around can be interesting and fun, having them outnumber humans just feels obnoxious and over the top. I'd be totally fine (and I think the storyline would be to) if Dogpound, Fishface, Kirby and (eventually) Baxter all remained human. I'd also have been much happier without the boring, pointless mutants like Justin, Pigeon Pete, Snakeweed, Spider-whatever, and cockroach that only showed up to so painfully obviously sell toys.

Like I said though, I do think SOME mutants have potential like Leatherhead and Newtralizer, but the writers really need to realize that mutation does not equal automatic character development. For some characters it worked, like Mutagen Man. A majority of the others though? Not so much.

Basically it boils down to the fact that I watch this show for mutant TURTLES, not mutant everything else.

[Gabriel GP]

To be honest, I think we get to a point where the mutants are the humans, since there is less humans than aliens and mutants in NY by now.

But seriously now, I wouldn't mind if more interesting humans shows up, instead of always receive a random mutant.

[Powder]

I'm more curious about the follow-through consequences of this many mutants, than I am in the ratio of mutants to humans.

This. Humans are boring anyway.

[Shark_Blade]

It's called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. What do you expect? Of course they're gonna be around mutants more. The humans we have now is more than enough.

As if like Harry Potter is a wizard but he's supposed to be mingling with normal humans more? Meh boring.

[CyberCubed]

It's called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. What do you expect? Of course they're gonna be around mutants more.

Yet the majority of TMNT universes are not overloaded with mutants. Other than Nick, the Archie comics are really the only other series with tons of mutants.

Fred Wolf had a good balance, and 4kids had very few actual mutants (that weren't self-contained to arcs), and IDW has like...4 mutants?

[Refractive Reflections]

After hearing Krutzman's explanation of how the Kraang have been around throughout human history (Kurtzman seems to be basically a middle-aged male version of OT April in playing the role of the investigative character), I won't be surprised if we see more random mutants appear in the show from other parts of the world (i.e. TigerClaw) similarly with the Archie TMNT universe. I was noting how the inserted Kraang images were near the depictions of "monstrous" animals that were depicted throughout the fables of human history (i.e. dragon-looking sea creatures), so that's where my speculation is coming from.

As plastroncafe stated, my interest also seems to be shifting more toward the consequences of having so many mutants, but as Bossa Nova pointed out, it's getting ridiculous how there are so many mutants running about (especially in New York City) and still humanity is oblivious to it all. In addition, and most importantly (similar to what Bossa Nova was expressing), is that the mutations themselves are typically supposed to provide a new perspective for the character and create some form of character development, but the mutations have been so excessive that they are now (or already) encroaching upon the storywriting, and why we have the deprecative term "Mutant of the Week".

Though I don't necessarily blame the production staff for these excessive mutants, because I feel they are pressured to fulfill an action figure quota, as the Nickelodeon Sales Report (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=45102) seems to imply somewhat:

Johnson highlighted that the line of figures offers a breadth of characters. More than 65 Turtles action figures will be launched by the end of 2015, with all first being introduced in the TV show, something other franchises don't always do, he said.


Yet even though we may get superfluous, and possibly "cooler" mutants, it's causing the unique factor (and the perspective that comes from that) for the Turtles to diminish rapidly; plus, it will be at the expense of transforming the mutagen itself from something special and rare, to bland and common.

[Overlordofnobodies]

Yet the majority of TMNT universes are not overloaded with mutants. Other than Nick, the Archie comics are really the only other series with tons of mutants.

Fred Wolf had a good balance, and 4kids had very few actual mutants (that weren't self-contained to arcs), and IDW has like...4 mutants?

Didnt 4kid have a lot more aliens, robot and other thing like that though? Shredder was not even human in that if I remember right.

As for IDW. They have 11 mutants as far as I now. With 4 alien races as well.

[TheMasterTurtle]

I have mixed feelings. Forgive me for being adolescent but one thing growing up I always looked forward to in the OT was new mutants appearing. I still get excited when I see them in the Nick incarnation. A huge element that is missing for me and it's related to humans would be the News Channel 6 interaction. Yes we have april and irma now but its just different. I quite liked Burne and Vernon as reoccurring as well as all of the introduction of other random humans (Don Turtelli, Pinky McFingers, etc).

[DarkLightDragon]

Bossa Nova and RR pretty much nailed it for me. There's really very few mutants I like and find the opinion "humans are boring and useless" a tad disheartening. Yeah, humans have never been that important in the TMNT mythos, but that doesn't mean they should be cast aside or mutated to make them "better." That is the laziest and cheapest way to conjure any character development.

The way this show handles the Mutant of the Week as a 'the more, the merrier' sort of thing, which I've seen very rarely pulled of well, and this show isn't really an exception. The only way to make anyone on this show special or well-developed is to just dump some mutagen and give 'em a new name. Except from MM and maybe Slash, this strategy has never given me a better or different perspective for each mutated victim.

And no, do not give me that "But the title has 'Mutant' in it, what do you expect?" I expected a better utilization of it's characters and mutants, not a truckload of mutants that had no thought put into them besides to "sell toyz." Plus, having the term 'mutant' does not validate or excuse every mutant that pops nor shouldn't shut up any complaints I have with this show.

Once again, this show seems to run on "the more, the merrier" kind of logic, when I'd much rather call it, "the more, the maddening."

[Karai Samurai]

I find no problem with the numbers of human characters.

When I saw the concept art for season 2 I expected the show to be over flooded with mutants. Somehow it doesn't feel that way. As long as they don't go around mutating Karai or Casey, I'm fine.

[miru]

I feel as if they're just trying to sell toys with this gimmick, and now that the toys are crap, I feel it's kinda pointless. Evidence to this is that most of these mutants are flat characters or even mindless beasts. If they gave the more important ones some development first I wouldn't mind.

[kelligrafie]

doesn't really bother me that much the only prob I had was Kirby changing would have been much better if he stayed human.

I'd be glad to see the back of Kirby, human or bat. I have NO idea what that batman brings to this show. He's a prop.

I wouldn't mind one or two more humans in the cast but only if they bring good story lines and backgrounds with them. I don't want them there for humans' sake any more than I want more female characters just to please some feministic agenda.

[Metalwolf]

As plastroncafe stated, my interest also seems to be shifting more toward the consequences of having so many mutants, but as Bossa Nova pointed out, it's getting ridiculous how there are so many mutants running about (especially in New York City) and still humanity is oblivious to it all. In addition, and most importantly (similar to what Bossa Nova was expressing), is that the mutations themselves are typically supposed to provide a new perspective for the character and create some form of character development, but the mutations have been so excessive that they are now (or already) encroaching upon the storywriting, and why we have the deprecative term "Mutant of the Week".I whole-heartedly agree with this myself. I'm starting to itch for more of development out of these existing mutants myself, since whatever tidbits we did get made me want to know and see more about them. That would draw me into the show far more then just seeing an endless parade of one shot 'kewl' no-bodies.

For instance...

Cockroach Terminator- To quote Kyle Reese from the movie: "Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead."
Imagine having THAT coming after you. That would terrify me, especially as I get a creepy-crawly feeling just looking at the guy. But I want to see more, because this guy is the only mutant on this show who actually feels cold, emotionless, and alien.

Xever/Fishface: He doesn't want to be a mutant, he wants to be a human again. And not just because his fish form is difficult to live with, but because he's missing out on his life. He doesn't even much use the 'gift' mutation bring him (his poisonous bite) but continues to use the weaponry of his human life, the butterfly knives and that dancing style martial arts that he knows. He hates his mutation that much it seems. All of this makes me feel for the guy, and hope he gets demutated and even redeemed.

Just these two guys I mentioned could use a lot more stories, and I didn't even say much of the others we have too. Too many mutants don't add anything to me because they blur into background filler after a while, and they often take away important screen time from developing characters that would make you care enough about them to buy their toys.


Though I don't necessarily blame the production staff for these excessive mutants, because I feel they are pressured to fulfill an action figure quota, as the Nickelodeon Sales Report (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=45102) seems to imply somewhat:

"Johnson highlighted that the line of figures offers a breadth of characters. More than 65 Turtles action figures will be launched by the end of 2015, with all first being introduced in the TV show, something other franchises don't always do, he said."


Yet even though we may get superfluous, and possibly "cooler" mutants, it's causing the unique factor (and the perspective that comes from that) for the Turtles to diminish rapidly; plus, it will be at the expense of transforming the mutagen itself from something special and rare, to bland and common.I'm hoping the '65 Turtles action figures' will mostly be Turtle variants or variants of existing mutant characters and not actual new mutant characters. Good grief! Do they really expect the rest of these to not end up as feeling like filler characters? Heck, if we're lucky half will be human, and some of these might be the formerly human mutants' human forms. But who knows really. And you forgot the other half of that coolness thing, in which we could end up getting some lame and butt ugly mutants too. :ohwell:

[CyberCubed]

I'm surprised with how little Newtralizer has been developed since he's Ciro's creation. Not only did he not even speak in his debut episode, but he's completely disappeared. I know he'll be in at least one Season 2 episode, but its surprising he's been MIA.

The worst mutants were by far Spiderbitez and the Cockroach, not to mention the others like Justin, Rockwell Monkey, Pigeon Pete.

[tylerdavies]

I'd also have been much happier without the boring, pointless mutants like Justin, Pigeon Pete, Snakeweed, Spider-whatever, and cockroach that only showed up to so painfully obviously sell toys.

Like I said though, I do think SOME mutants have potential like Leatherhead and Newtralizer, but the writers really need to realize that mutation does not equal automatic character development. For some characters it worked, like Mutagen Man. A majority of the others though? Not so much.

Evidence to this is that most of these mutants are flat characters or even mindless beasts. If they gave the more important ones some development first I wouldn't mind.

I whole-heartedly agree with this myself. I'm starting to itch for more of development out of these existing mutants myself, since whatever tidbits we did get made me want to know and see more about them. That would draw me into the show far more then just seeing an endless parade of one shot 'kewl' no-bodies.

I think the lack of development of the mutant characters before they become mutants is what "ruins" them. Mutants like the Mutagen Man, Fishface, (now) Rahzar have substance to them and had relationships with the turtles prior to them becoming mutants and are just more interesting to watch compared to the other "stock" mutants

[ABrown]

It's sort of like Transformers. I there for the changing robots. Not the humans.

When it comes to Transformers, I 100% agree. I get annoyed by Transformers franchises being dominated by human characters. I don't have the same feeling when it comes to TMNT though. I don't feel that the turtles have to be primarily fighting mutants. And I haven't been all that impressed with Nick's mutant characters. I find them to be pretty annoying. I'd much rather see the turtles having stories involving The Kraang. They're by far my favorite part of the Nick series.

[Coola Yagami]

Not really.... some TMNT universes might have more normal humans than others...but that's not what the show is about. It's all about the mutants and other freaks of nature. I don't know what Laird's deal was with mutants in the 2K3 series, but they still threw in just about any other kind of freak and monster into the show besides mutants.

[Cure]

The more mutants the better.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Bossa Nova and RR pretty much nailed it for me. There's really very few mutants I like and find the opinion "humans are boring and useless" a tad disheartening. Yeah, humans have never been that important in the TMNT mythos, but that doesn't mean they should be cast aside or mutated to make them "better." That is the laziest and cheapest way to conjure any character development.

The way this show handles the Mutant of the Week as a 'the more, the merrier' sort of thing, which I've seen very rarely pulled of well, and this show isn't really an exception. The only way to make anyone on this show special or well-developed is to just dump some mutagen and give 'em a new name. Except from MM and maybe Slash, this strategy has never given me a better or different perspective for each mutated victim.

And no, do not give me that "But the title has 'Mutant' in it, what do you expect?" I expected a better utilization of it's characters and mutants, not a truckload of mutants that had no thought put into them besides to "sell toyz." Plus, having the term 'mutant' does not validate or excuse every mutant that pops nor shouldn't shut up any complaints I have with this show.

Once again, this show seems to run on "the more, the merrier" kind of logic, when I'd much rather call it, "the more, the maddening."


This pretty much sums up my feelings. Some of the mutants are great, and I like them- like Bradford/Dogpound/Rahzar, or Xever/Fishface, or even Mutagen Man and Pete, but others- not so much. While I LOVED the squirellenoids, and the cockroach was fun, I'm having a hard time keeping up with so many now, and that gets frustrating and annoying. We still haven't seen hide nor uh, "hair" of Newtralizer or Kirbybat again, Spiderbytes was just kind of there, and even Snakeweed was more interesting when he was human. Justin was barely even a blip on the radar. I'd rather see more development go into the mutants we already have than more mutants just for the sake of toys.

[Metalwolf]

This pretty much sums up my feelings. Some of the mutants are great, and I like them- like Bradford/Dogpound/Rahzar, or Xever/Fishface, or even Mutagen Man and Pete, but others- not so much. While I LOVED the squirellenoids, and the cockroach was fun, I'm having a hard time keeping up with so many now, and that gets frustrating and annoying. We still haven't seen hide nor uh, "hair" of Newtralizer or Kirbybat again, Spiderbytes was just kind of there, and even Snakeweed was more interesting when he was human. Justin was barely even a blip on the radar. I'd rather see more development go into the mutants we already have than more mutants just for the sake of toys.Agreed, agreed, agreed. I don't mind a filler mutant once in a while, but that's when it's only done on occasion. Too much, and it gets royally annoying, especially when it ends up cutting into the time of what the main cast should be getting.

[Donatello19]

We have enough humans! If April, Casey, Irma, Shredder, Karai, Mr. Murakami, the purple dragons, Carlos Chang O'Brian Gambe, Kurtzman and whoever else isn't enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

[CyberCubed]

The least they could do is bring back the human Foot, or bring in the Foot Elite or other divisions of the Foot Clan.

Replacing them all with brain-dead robots is ridiculous.

[saber16]

I could care less. So long as the show's nicely written, I'm good.

[CyberCubed]

I wish we could see the Turtles foil some bank robbers or something. Classic human thugs are a must in every action cartoon.

[BabyTurtles]

now that I think about it......all I want are more human villains like a Bishop or something.......I love Bishop T^T I NEED A SECRET ANGENT!

and maybe one adult lady ally. I don't know why...but I wanna see a mother figure in the show.

since all the mothers are........dead...

[Donatello19]

Replacing them all with brain-dead robots is ridiculous.

You mean the ones that actually pose a threat to the turtles? The ones that allow more brutal fight scenes?

[Shark_Blade]

since all the mothers are........dead...They're the best kind in fictions cause they don't nag the main protagonists all the time and interrupt the plot/narration. Think Harry Potter, Star Wars, LOTR, etc.

[Bossa Nova]

They're the best kind in fictions cause they don't nag the main protagonists all the time and interrupt the plot/narration. Think Harry Potter, Star Wars, LOTR, etc.

Cause...that's all mothers are good for?

Wow.

:roll:

[Shark_Blade]

No I mean parents in fictions are normally holding them/story back...

[BabyTurtles]

No I mean parents in fictions are normally holding them/story back...

still wouldn't it be nice to see an women ally with the turtles (like 20 something) and she's mature and cares about the turtles XD and they can just hang at her place

kinda like Murakami. (she'd be like him)



..................or what an older April could have been.

with all these teenagers...someone needs to help Splinter maintain these kids!!

[Overlordofnobodies]

now that I think about it......all I want are more human villains like a Bishop or something.......I love Bishop T^T I NEED A SECRET ANGENT!

and maybe one adult lady ally. I don't know why...but I wanna see a mother figure in the show.

since all the mothers are........dead...

Why do people call Bishop human?
He was like a 200 years old. Then he has that all most inhuman speed and agility.The last thing is last body was not his own but a clone made by Baxter Stockman. Hell I think he did once or twice before that.

So how his he human?I what a answer from some one please.

[NinjaPug]

still wouldn't it be nice to see an women ally with the turtles (like 20 something) and she's mature and cares about the turtles XD and they can just hang at her place

kinda like Murakami. (she'd be like him)



..................or what an older April could have been.

with all these teenagers...someone needs to help Splinter maintain these kids!!

So basically you want April in every other incarnation.

[Electric]

still wouldn't it be nice to see an women ally with the turtles (like 20 something) and she's mature and cares about the turtles XD and they can just hang at her place

kinda like Murakami. (she'd be like him)



..................or what an older April could have been.

with all these teenagers...someone needs to help Splinter maintain these kids!!

im all for getting another parent type figure for the turtles, but an adult lady ally is basically just any other april.

the turtles have never really had a prominent human teen ally before, so this april adds something new.

[BabyTurtles]

im all for getting another parent type figure for the turtles, but an adult lady ally is basically just any other april.

the turtles have never really had a prominent human teen ally before, so this april adds something new.

they can have this April XD AND a lady ally

why can't we have both?

it's not like I'd expect a lady ally to show up every episode...she'd basically be like Murakami.

[miru]

I've noticed a lot of people seem to be annoyed by the fact that every human eventually becomes a mutant, and how there are only very few normal human characters in the series anymore.

With the knowledge that Baxter will also eventually turn into a fly, that means only Casey, Karai, Shredder, Kurtzman, and the 3 Purple Dragons as the only normal humans left.

Is this something the show should concern itself with? Should human characters actually stay human?

What of Steranko?

[kolaida]

I like all the mutants! I think the idea is they are supposed to be living in a city with like 8 millions humans, so the ratio would actually be pretty low. But we don't actually see those eight million humans, so it looks kinda like they are in a post-apocalypse NYC, lol!

I'd actually be more concerned about the imminent threat of another alien invasion if I were a human there and just hoping that the mutants aren't allies with the aliens (or maybe some of the humans think the mutants ARE aliens?).

Like others have said I'd like to see what the humans do think of all this stuff going in their city-- I really enjoy Gambe's (?) news reports (back when I watched the OT, I always loved the April reporting bits, I used to wanna be a reporter-- it looked so fun, lol!)

Or maybe there's a MIB type group going around, trying to clean up stuff. I mean, Kurtzman was working on stuff regarding the aliens, I'm sure there are other human groups that the turtles are unaware of (and can't afford to see, lol).

Seriously, though, I love all the mutants, it's great! But I would not care for a mutated Casey or Karai like someone else said. I would be seriously disappointed. For whatever reason, though, I don't really care who else they mutate or whatever they do.

I like some of the mutants having development and I like that they just pound some mutants into the ground. Gives it a nice mix up. And I like Spyderbytez (always calling them frogs and such, lol). Maybe I'll even go buy my own toy of him. Just to laugh when I look at it!