A really off-the-wall question....

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Okay, this is all in good fun here, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. But since immigration is such a big deal in the news lately, and we were discussing the Olympics and how some athletes have dual citizenship, my other half posed an interesting question- was Yoshi/Splinter legal? In other words, when he came to the U.S., did he have a "green card", or was he an illegal immigrant? This could apply to either the OT or Nick, since he was human first in both. We'll ignore the question for any other incarnation, since I don't think it would matter for a rat. Although that just leads to the question of whether his OWNER was legal when he brought Splinter over with him.


Annnnd DISCUSS!! Again, this is meant purely for speculation, and is not intended to condone or criticize illegal immigrants to any nation.

[turtlefanforever]

I never really put my thought into it. Does it really matter though? He lives in a freaking sewer, it's not like those radical "they took our jobs!" People can complain about it. He doesn't work he just wants to live his life in solitude. Given in OT he became human and was pleased but sort of realized the world had chanced and it wasn't really for him. In two separate episodes he gave up being human. He destroyed shredders device to save his boys, and when the anti-mutagen acted up he went back to being a rat. Sorry to get a bit off topic with that, but like I said first. I don't think it matter because he is in a sewer, I figure he would have been legal, but you never know.

[Machias Banshee]

It's an intriguing topic, speculation wise. :D

Archie Splinter/Hamato Yoshi had traveled all over the world during their adventures - at least for 10 years. He probably hit Hawaii for a lil while before coming to the mainland. There was a large uptick in immigrants from Asia during the 80s, so he probably came in with that group.

He may have been one of the fortunate ones that got one of the last green cards with no expiration date. Cards issued between 1977 and 1986 with no expiration date would be valid and have no requirement by law to be replaced with the 10 year card, even at this time. Hopefully Splinter kept it in his sock drawer for trips to the surface... :D


I love my job.. :P

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I realize this was possibly a touchy subject, but when he mentioned the question, I decided it merited a discussion here. And I did not know about the non-expiring cards, Banshee! That's interesting to note.

TFF, I think you may be confusing two separate episodes. "Splinter No More" is the one where he actually became human again, after Donatello created an anti-mutagen he based on the last of the mutagen left from their original mutation. It proved to be temporary, and Splinter reverted back to a rat. The other one was a device that Krang and Shredder built specifically to change them back into pet turtles, but it could also have changed Splinter back to human (mind you this was BEFORE the other incident). Splinter destroyed it to prevent it from being used on them, even though it meant giving up his chance to be human. When he reverted back to a rat from Don's formula, he decided (after a lengthy excursion to the surface and being treated rudely and finally chased by an angry mob when he began changing back) that he was happier as a rat.

[Walkabout]

I always assumed he wasn't a legal immigrant.

[Jester]

Maybe the reason FW Yoshi was penny less and living in the sewers was because he was illegal....

[CyberCubed]

I love how people ignore the fact that Yoshi was homeless and was essentially a bum.

[turtlefanforever]

I love how people ignore the fact that Yoshi was homeless and was essentially a bum.

But he was disgraced, don't you think he was living out his life in solitude because of what happened over in Japan? They take honor real seriously.

[Ninjinister]

I love how people ignore the fact that Yoshi was homeless and was essentially a bum.

Who's ignoring it?

[Jester]

That and it was only FW and possibly Archie Yoshi who was a homeless man.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

In the movie, it looked like he had some kind of low-paying construction job when he came home to find Tang Shen dead. Those kinds of jobs often don't require documentation, since it's often paid under the table, and is considered menial labor. I'm kind of wondering why Yoshi didn't find something like that in the OT. And what kind of work did he do in Nick? It never mentioned what he did in America before he followed those men into the alley. (Which I still think was a very bizarre and dumb thing to do, but- oh well....)

As far as why he was homeless in the OT, maybe it was because all his resources came from the Foot clan before Saki disgraced him and he was kicked out? How much ya' wanna bet Saki froze all his assets when he took over? If he had been supported by the clan his whole life, he might not have had any job skills outside of being their teacher. Though it's possible he COULD have taught in a martial arts school in America, like that Slash-For-Cash Gym in the episode with the "Crooked Ninja Turtle" gang.

[Redeemer]

Many of you make good points about why he could or should be considered an illegal immigrant, but he was living in New York, anyone know how expensive it is???I know some of you live in the state at least. An illegal immigrant could not live in New York. But anyway also all the security surrounding New York as well. New York is probably the worse place for an illegal immigrant. So I am assuming he is legal.

[Shred87]

Many of you make good points about why he could or should be considered an illegal immigrant, but he was living in New York, anyone know how expensive it is???I know some of you live in the state at least. An illegal immigrant could not live in New York. But anyway also all the security surrounding New York as well. New York is probably the worse place for an illegal immigrant. So I am assuming he is legal.
I assure you there are PLENTY of illegal immigrants in New York city

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, there have always been plenty of homeless folks in ANY large city- in fact, on a class trip to both NYC and Washington DC, I saw plenty of them in both cities. More so in DC, strangely enough, but still. Ride the subways in NYC at any time of day, and you'll see lots of them. And many of them are immigrants with nowhere else to go. Just because it's expensive to live in a NY house or apartment, doesn't mean there aren't a fairly large number of folks living on the streets, or anywhere else they can find a place. That's why large cities like New York have so many soup kitchens and shelters. Most of the people in them have little or no legal ID or records. They're like ghosts- everyone sees them, but they just pretend not to most of the time.

[turtlefanforever]

He had no honor so he lived in seclusion. It makes sense Japanese take their honor very seriously.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

If he just wanted to live in seclusion, he could have gone anywhere. New York sewers are the LAST place anyone would ever WANT to go for that. It seems more likely that he went there seeking to start over, only to end up with nowhere to live. And he still had honor- it was Saki and his running of the clan after he left that had lost honor. Yoshi was simply framed for an assassination attempt, and thus kicked out of the clan. Technically, after being disgraced, if he was unable to reclaim his honor, he'd have been expected to commit seppuku. And he probably WOULD have, if he had not ended up getting mutated and having to raise four little turtle-tots....

[turtlefanforever]

If he just wanted to live in seclusion, he could have gone anywhere. New York sewers are the LAST place anyone would ever WANT to go for that. It seems more likely that he went there seeking to start over, only to end up with nowhere to live. And he still had honor- it was Saki and his running of the clan after he left that had lost honor. Yoshi was simply framed for an assassination attempt, and thus kicked out of the clan. Technically, after being disgraced, if he was unable to reclaim his honor, he'd have been expected to commit seppuku. And he probably WOULD have, if he had not ended up getting mutated and having to raise four little turtle-tots....

Who knows. It's just the little things. This is all permutation which for the most part doesn't matter. Yes the rise of shredder and all that matters, but the perfect storm that created the turtles is the most important part, how you get there not so much.